Re: [PSES] Technical musings
Gert, the FCC based their numbers on preventing interference to police and other emergency services along with not interfering with your neighbors radio or TV. I assume Europe picked their levels for the same reasons. At current levels I occasionally have had issues with near by RF emitting devices interfering with my ham radio activity. The same could be true for other services. What the standards do not take in consideration is what is happening to the noise floor. The noise floor rising makes weak signal detection more difficult. If it gets bad enough it could impact more than just weak signal detection. Raising the RF levels of the standard would raise the noise floor. Raising the levels would not be a good thing. Well designed devices can easily comply with the standards with reasonable margins. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU j.bac...@ieee.org or ja.bac...@outlook.com On October 11, 2024 2:49:00 PM Gert Gremmen F4LDP wrote: Why using numbers (in dBuV/m) if the MU is 200-400 % ? Using number assumes a defined and known uncertainty. All this experiences calls out for a more strict measurement set-up, with extensive cable lay-out description, EUT set-up a uniform test site (5 meter FAR ?) , standard antennas, regular calibration and verification ahead on each test , an intelligent site attenuation calculation per frequency range (such as 30-100 100-300 and 300-1000 MHz) and more, if well done resulting in a lower MU of the total measurement. Focus shall be on reproducibility, a 6 dB offset is not that of a problem als long as we are all 6 dB off. Seen the fact that the current measurements do result in a (more or less) satisfactorily EMC situation in spite of excessive variations in results, we may assume that the current emission limits are on the safe side (= too low), and can be adjusted (say 5 dB) upwards, once a better overall MU is obtained, finally resulting in cheaper EMC testing, cheaper EUT production, and less excessive radiation = less interference. As the determining value for compliance is a QP-value, additional attention shall be paid to the peak pre-scan dwell times (actually defining the frequencies to be measured) and EUT emission cycling times, in order to find all qualifying frequencies for QP-evaluation, an aspect that is too often overlooked. It won't be easy to catch up for all these, but didn't we get to Mars too ? Gert Gremmen On 11-10-2024 20:23, John Woodgate wrote: Yes, there's not only the intractable near-field issue, but all the EM influences between the various pieces of equipment. This all adds to the uncertainty and irrepeatable results. On 2024-10-11 18:08, doug emcesd.com wrote: A criteria I have seen and agree with is that the distance from the EUT to the antenna be 10x the size of the EUT to insure the antenna is seeing a uniform field so it’s calibration is valid. This is not the same as being in the far field. This is a big issue at 3 meters. I have significant issues with many, if not most standards I have read. For instance, the people who wrote IEC 61000-4-4 did not understand the way the "capacitive" clamp works. It is also an "inductive" clamp and as a result it is directive and more energy is sent to the auxiliary equipment than to the EUT, there is no excuse for this. the clamp is positioned backwards in the standard I have been pointing this out for 30 years now to my clients and others. Here is a link to a paper I wrote on this almost 30 years ago: https://emcesd.com/pdf/esd96-w.pdf In my opinion, neither the clamp nor the standard accurately describe actual EFT although in later years some progress has been made, not nearly enough though. I see problems like this in many standards I read. Another problem that is much harder to control happens over in the ESD side. My personal discharge at 4 kV holding a small piece of metal with a measurement chain with 5 GHz bandwidth has a peak current twice what the standard calls for but the follow-on "hump" is more of a straight line down to the horizontal axis much faster than the standard calls for containing a lot less energy. I think this is due to the fact I have less capacitance (surface area, I am about two meters tall but on the skinny side from running 3,000 miles a year) that what was used for the standard which is probably closer to average than me. I have no idea how to account for variability between people and the actual environment they are in when an ESD event happens. Doug Smith Sent from my iPhone IPhone: 408-858-4528 Office: 702-570-6108 Email: d...@dsmith.org Website: http://dsmith.org From: John Woodgate Sent: Friday, October 11, 2024 8:58:14 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Technical musings Thanks, Jim. I wondered whether there was anything other than the 'near-field thicket' involved. Measurement results in the near field can be reliably reprod
Re: [PSES] Technical musings
John, you ask why the difference in levels measured between test distances of 3 meters and 10 meters. It’s fairly common for a device to fail at frequencies below 125 MHz at 3 Meter test distance and then pass at a 10 Meter test distance. Besides all the other possible factors (such as was a different chamber and test equipment used), the question becomes, was it a Near Field or Far Field RF signal that was being measured? Near Field RF levels drop faster than Far Field RF Levels. The problem with a 3 Meter test distance is the frequency being measured might be impacted by Near Field, verses Far Field only measurement at 10 Meters. I have read a number of papers that claim different wave lengths for the Near Field effect. The values I have seen are between 1 and 3 wave lengths (with RF think wave lengths). I suspect it is system dependent and typically 1 to 2 wavelengths and I suspect the primary reason for the effect between the two measurement distances. Here are the approximate possible frequency ranges impacted by Near Field at a test distance of 3 Meters: Three wavelength signal: RF levels up to 280 MHz Two wavelength signal: RF levels up to 140 MHz One wavelength signal: RF levels up to 70 MHz As far as I am concerned 10 meters is the better test distance as it is in the Far Field for the frequencies between 30 MHz and 1 GHz. Although 30 Mhz is close to one wavelength at 10 Meters. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU ja.bac...@outlook.com <mailto:ja.bac...@outlook.com> or j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> From: John Woodgate Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2024 4:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Technical musings Reply to Derek @ LF Research, because his post is labelled as SPAM. Yes, adding OATS is always healthy.😉 Is there an accepted explanation for the '3 m excess'? The published results are consistent with the field being diffuse (that term is from acoustics: I'm not sure how widely it's used in EMC circles), i.e the resultant of a large number of direct, reflected and diffracted rays. It is hardly surprising: a cuboid space is 'ideal' for producing a diffuse field above 'eigentone' wavelengths. This might create at least a 3 dB increase over 'inverse square' and maybe more. I suppose things get complicated at wavelengths that cannot be called 'short'. Has anyone tried a spherical chamber? If that's too difficult, a 'quartic sphere [(x,y,z)^4 = r^4, like a Swedish traffic circle] has noticeably rounded corners and edges, so might be close enough for a useful improvement. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only Best Wishes John Woodgate Keep trying <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> www.avg.com _ This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ <https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/> Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net <mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org <mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC <https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1> &A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
[PSES] FYI: List Rules
Due to changes on the IEEE PSES website, the list rules are offline and will be for a while. If you have any questions about the list rules before posting something, please contact the list admins off list. Once the rules are back online we will update the footer with the new address. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU <mailto:ja.bac...@outlook.com> ja.bac...@outlook.com or <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] technical musings
Hey Ken and Derek, please consider doing a presentation of your results in the EMC and Wireless Track at one of the IEEE PSES Symposiums. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU j.bac...@ieee.org or ja.bac...@outlook.com EMC and Wireless Track Chair for ISPCE AND SPCE On October 9, 2024 2:43:56 PM Lfresearch <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: Hi Ken, Nice article. I would love to have seen you add in an OATS to your measurements. What you publish correlates with what we have found on our 10m OATS, 5m chamber and 3m compact chamber. Namely that below 100 MHz, 3m test distances emissions tend to read high. I hadn’t planned to publish our results, but in light of this series of posts, maybe I should. Take care, Derek. On Oct 9, 2024, at 12:40 PM, Ken Wyatt wrote: Hi All, I had a chance to make some comb generator measurements at a lab with two 10m chambers. I used the AET USDS spherical comb generator designed by Dr. Bruce Archambeault (no longer available, unfortunately). There was an age difference between the two chambers, with the older ferrite tile lined and the newer, ferrite tiles with absorber cones. One of the charts shows the difference between 3m and 10m test distance. Use of comb generator to compare 3m and 10m measurements: https://www.edn.com/review-the-aet-usds-spherical-harmonic-comb-generator/ One outcome was the linked article, but what was missing in that was the comparison between the two chambers (horizon polarization, only). See second link to the table. In every case, the comb generator was positioned on a tripod 1m above the reflecting floor. There was as much as 15 dB difference between the two. I’ve not published this last chart, but did leave it with the test lab management. Chamber 1 and 2 comparison: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yln8697jufl7xl8kvybol/Delta-Chamber-1-Versus-2.png?rlkey=n9s1wvzgfe8wybwxfig8jangp&dl=0 Cheers, Ken ___ I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to help! Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC 8201 Lighthouse Lane Ct Windsor, CO 80528 Contact Me!New Books! Web Site | Blog The EMC Blog (EDN) Subscribe to Newsletter Connect with me on LinkedIn On Oct 9, 2024, at 1:07 AM, doug emcesd.com wrote: I agree and was involved with the early development of emission standards with with Don Heirman. But still, other areas of engineering are much more accurate/have very low uncertainty than EMC. It is sad that most everyone I knew from the early days of EMC are gone now. Many of them, Heirman and Ott, for example, were friends. I hope to continue to help engineers in the wider field of engineering and physics, including EMC for another 25-30 years. By the way, another of my interests is medicine, which I have studied on my own for 50 years now and have successfully slowed the aging process and successfully treated my spouse’s ovarian cancer (after the surgery to remove two very large tumors) without an oncologist. Just another part of science as EMC is. Doug Smith Sent from my iPhone IPhone: 408-858-4528 Office: 702-570-6108 Email: d...@dsmith.org Website: http://dsmith.orgFrom: Brent DeWitt Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2024 5:57:46 PM To: doug emcesd.com ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] technical musings Doug, Respectfully, I would not agree. I'm not sure what "other areas of engineering" you're referring to. 🙂 First, if we are discussing commercial emissions standards, they are ancient and date back to the days when Apple 2 PCs were interfering with "rabbit ear" TV reception (1979) when Part 47 was drafted. The levels were largely drawn from the VDE 0871 standard. I doubt anyone with knowledge of the methodology has suggested that the overall process is deterministic. The question of measurement uncertainty was championed by Don Heirman for years and continues to be debated. Regulations and standards have done a very good, if somewhat painful, job of quantifying the uncertainty of the measurement process. The most competent and well executed test laboratory cannot fully control a customer's EUT or even have total control over the configuration. That is an advantage for a manufacturer having their own in-house test facility. All that said, I feel that the "state of EMC testing" has evolved to produce very respectable results, given the real world constraints. Best to all and 73 Jim! Brent DeWitt, AB1LF IEEE EMC Society Senior Life Member Milford, MA On 10/8/2024 7:07 PM, doug emcesd.com wrote: Seems like the state of EMC testing is not good compared to other areas of engineering! Doug Smith Sent from my iPhone IPhone: 408-858-4528 Office: 702-570-6108 Email: d...@dsmith.org Website: http://dsmith.org From: Jim Bacher, WB8VSU Sent: T
Re: [PSES] technical musings
Back in the 1980s I had a variation in system measurements between labs. Management decided the lab I used wasn't any good. In the process of trying to convince management variations were normal, I came to the conclusion that measuring systems at different labs would likely have a +5 to -7 dB variations. None of our test equipment is perfectly flat. No one calibrates every Hz to account for those imperfections. The frequency being measured is typically not on any of the calibrated frequencies. For testing a system, equipment and cable variations can impact their emmisions significantly. I have seen over 20 dB of variation due to the variations. How much effort was made to peak signals? Then is the test equipment measurement operator an avid Ham DXer (chases weak signals to talk to far away stations)? Reason is a Ham will likely do a more accurate peaking of rotation and height of the search antennas. I have had one government lab fail to compensate for a preamp when reporting levels and said the product failed. I had the agent pull it back for a few days, then take it back and it passed with no changes. So some errors can be to using the wrong calibration factors when calculating the levels. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU j.bac...@ieee.org or ja.bac...@outlook.com JBRC Consulting LLC Product EMC & Regulatory Consultant https://www.trc.guru/ email:j...@trc.guru IEEE Life Senior Member On October 8, 2024 11:14:28 AM David Schaefer <12867effceb4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: Harry Hodes gave a presentation at the C63 meetings last week on proficiency testing. He runs the ACIL PT program, and the data he shared showed a ton of variance. Many labs were in I think +/-3-4 dB range, but there were outliers – the worst cases being one lab reading 30-40 dB high, another 30-40 dB low. If I recall correctly for one PT program 95 labs participated and around 10 were outside the expected tolerance. Doing a check of the measurement system prior to testing is critical. A comb gen scan takes only a few minutes but should catch these egregious errors. David Schaefer Technical Manager Element Materials Technology 9349 W Broadway Ave Brooklyn Park , MN 55445 , United States O +1 612 638 5136 ext. 10461 david.schae...@element.com www.element.com From: doug emcesd.com Sent: Monday, October 7, 2024 6:08 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] technical musings CAUTION:This email originated from outside of Element Materials Technology. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please contact the TOC if you are in any doubt about this email. I have seen differences of 9 dB on the same measurement on an EUT and comb generator by different accredited labs! Doug This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 Disclaimer This email is sent on behalf of Element Materials Technology Group Limited or the relevant group company with which you are dealing (together, Element). Element Materials Technology Group Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales with registered number 09915743. Its registered office and its principal place of business is at 3rd Floor, Davidson Building, 5 Southampton Street, London, United Kingdom, WC2E 7HA. Element cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage sustained as a result of viruses or malware and the recipient must ensure that the email and attachments are virus and malware free. Emails and attachments are opened at your own risk. The information transferred is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Transmission of this email is not intended to waive confidentiality and/or privilege. The contents of this email are subject to contract and do not contain an offer that is capable of acceptance. Unless otherwise agreed in writing with you, the Element Standard Terms of Business for the relevant group company apply in respect of any services provided to you, including advice given to you by email. The Standard Terms of Business are available on
[PSES] Fwd: Re: [PSES] Lasers
Steve, both. The client has to file a yearly report as well. The client just refers to the OEMs FDA Accession number along with detailing labeling, manuals, etc. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU j.bac...@ieee.org or ja.bac...@outlook.com JBRC Consulting LLC Product EMC & Regulatory Consultant https://trc.guru/ email:j...@trc.guru IEEE Life Senior Member On June 18, 2024 5:39:08 PM sgbrody wrote: I have a client with a product that has a 3rd party Class 3B laser embedded. Who needs an FDA Accession number - laser manufacturer or my client as an end product containing an embedded laser? Thanks, - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Radiated Emissions - How many points to QP?
Mark, for the most part I always had 6 of the highest measured in each polarization, for a total of 12. Depending on what we saw, we may have measured more for curiosity's sake. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU From: Stultz, Mark <0f79f2e10e47-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2024 3:33 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Radiated Emissions - How many points to QP? Hello PSES brain trust, When doing radiated emissions measurements, how many frequencies should be quasi-peaked? CISPR 16-2-3 clause 6.4.9 states: "Of those disturbances above (L-20dB), where L is the limit level in logarithmic units, the disturbance levels and the frequencies of at least the six highest disturbances shall be recorded." We have always done QP measurements on all peak measurements above the limit, even if that is more than six points. I have a lab arguing that they only need to measure the top six, regardless of how many peak measurements are above the limit. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks, Mark This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] PSU cert issue
Jeff, all of the power supply modules I have dealt with had EMC Reports. Those modules went inside products. So I would have required the PSU to have a vendors EMC report before accepting its use in one of our products. The suppliers I dealt with used 3 different resistive loads, during their testing. One minimal load, one mid load and one max load. The resistors where typically bolted to an aluminum sheet for heat dissipation. One of the reasons you want them to test is for line conducted levels. Those levels are usually impacted by load. There is likely nothing you can do in your product, to correct the power supplies if they failed line conducted. Turkey was always difficult for me. I had to on numerous occasions explain how to interpret the European requirements. I would provide a copy of your products EMC report, highlighting the power supply was part of the test, and therefore a valid EMC report for the power supply. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU ja.bac...@outlook.com or j.bac...@ieee.org JBRC Consulting LLC Product EMC & Regulatory Consultant https:\\trc.guru IEEE Life Senior Member On March 21, 2024 11:18:14 PM Jeffrey Gilbert wrote: Having a problem sending replacement 1U PSUs into Turkey. Apparently they (customs) are requiring full EMC certification, which no PSU manufacturer does. They do LVD, RoHS, but not EMC. These are useless outside of a system they are intended to be installed into and certified in. PSU manufacturer DoC explains this. We certify in a full system. I am under the impression that Turkey is supposed to be following EU CE rules. We do not have this issue in any other country on the planet. Has anyone else run into this problem? Jeff This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] UL 62133-2 Battery Standard + V-1 plastic enclosure
Since the late 1980s I always recommend V-0 (or better) for battery packs. What I found out years ago was V-0 was lower cost than V-1, (from the vendors we were using at that time). I remember having a battery pack vendor call me in a panic over the V-1 being added to the requirements. I pointed out we were already using V-0 and meet the new requirements. That didn't help his other customers, but I didn't have a crisis. That was 25+ years ago. Anyway I still recommend using V-0 instead of V-1 for battery packs. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU ja.bac...@outlook.com or j.bac...@ieee.org JBRC Consulting LLC Product EMC & Regulatory Consultant https:\\trc.guru IEEE Life Senior Member On March 21, 2024 4:48:16 PM "emcl...@gmail.com" wrote: Hello All, This is the first time that I've had a large NRTL safety engineer inform me that the UL 62133-2 battery pack standard requires that the end-product application enclosure plastic must be rated V-1 or better. I don't have that standard. Can anybody here shed some light on this issue? Thanks much, Carl This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Validity Period of Battery Safety Test Reports
John, a question. What's the date on your test reports / files? I don't remember the details any more, but I hit something similar many years ago. So I paid to have the files refreshed to solve the issue. It was a minimal cost. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU ja.bac...@outlook.com or j.bac...@ieee.org Jim Bacher, WB8VSU ja.bac...@outlook.com or j.bac...@ieee.org JBRC Consulting LLC Product EMC & Regulatory Consultant https:\\trc.guru IEEE Life Senior Member On March 5, 2024 1:52:21 PM John Riutta wrote: Hello all, I’m having a bit of bother with Amazon.com at the moment. For a small rechargeable battery-containing product they are requiring one of the following in order for them to sell the product on their Canadian platform: CAN/CSA C22.2 No. 62133-2:20; IEC 62133:2012 or IEC 62133-2:2017; UL 62133:2017 or UL 62133-2:2020. The challenge is that they rejected the one I sent as being long past the testing date. However I have not been able to find any citation as to how often testing under any of these standards must be repeated in order to be valid. I seek the collected wisdom of the group please. Best regards, John John E. Riutta, MA, MBA, FLSIProduct Development and Product Compliance Manager I jriutta@celestron.comI323.446.1076 CELESTRON, LLC.I2835 Columbia Street I Torrance, CA 90503 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] MTBF Calculations / testing
Brian, this discussion list is for all Regulatory Compliance questions, not
just EMC. So your question is not off topic.
Jim Bacher, WB8VSU
ja.bac...@outlook.com or j.bac...@ieee.org
On February 26, 2024 1:00:14 PM Brian Gregory
wrote:
Hello,
this is a little off topic for an EMC board, but y'all have a great ken
("ken" not _Ken_ Wyatt, even as great as he is).
Can anyone recommend a lab or company to help us run some MTBF calculations
for a N. American residential appliance?
thank you,
Colorado Brian
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[PSES] Product Compliance Symposium / Looking for Presentations
John Allen and I are looking for Papers and Presentations for the IEEE Symposium on Product Compliance Engineering, sponsored by the IEEE PSES. This year's ISPCE will be held in Chicago Illinois, April 30 through May 2. There will be four tracks on product compliance. John is looking for presentations for the Compliance 101 and 102 tracks. I am looking for presentations for the EMC and Wireless Track. There are other tracks looking for presentations. We need to have the papers and presentations in the Content Management system by the end of January. For more information see: https://2024.psessymposium.org/ This is the 20th anniversary of the symposium. If you have any questions, contact John or myself off list. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU ja.bac...@outlook.com or j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] EN, ISO, or IEC adhesive label durability standards?
Doug, back when I had to deal with labels, the oversea agencies accepted the CSA and UL standards. I never found any other standards. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU ja.bac...@outlook.com <mailto:ja.bac...@outlook.com> or j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> From: Doug Nix Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 4:20 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EN, ISO, or IEC adhesive label durability standards? Dear colleagues, I am looking for EN, ISO, or IEC standards that are equivalent to CSA C22.2 No. 0.15, Adhesive Labels or UL 969 2023, Marking and Labeling Systems. I’ve done some searching on cencenelec.org, iso.org, and webstore.iec.ch, without finding any standards that appear to cover similar requirements. Specifically, I’m interested in the label durability tests, like the solvent test defined in CSA C22.2 No. 0.15. Any suggestions are appreciated. Best regards, Doug Nix d...@ieee.org <mailto:d...@ieee.org> +1 (519) 729-5704 _ This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ <https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/> Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net <mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org <mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC <https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1> &A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Fw: FCC/ISED file change update
Brian, I agree that Class II permissive changes only applies to intentional radiators. The catch is if your device contains a Wi-Fi device, then your device is also a Wireless device / intentional radiator. However as you are not modifying the Wi-Fi module there is no reason to do a formal filing and the SDoC is enough. Permissive changes really just apply to the parts that affect frequency, RF Amplitude or modulation. Changes to Digital support parts are usually not considered a reason to do a formal filing. Jim On August 29, 2023 6:15:46 PM Brian Gregory wrote: Good afternoon, I'll repeat my earlier story and give the group an update. We have made some small changes to our product (prominently to Y-caps, and some beads) which unfortunately did not increase our margin vs EMC limits, but the product still passes FCC and ISED. Engineering wanted to use the self-declaration process to document these changes, including passing test results w/o going through the TCB and re-file process. The changes do appear to classify for what CFR 47, Part 15 § 2.1043 call a class II permissive change, but it's just as certain that the original FCC and ISED ID's are still valid as the product is roughly the same, still passes emission limits and made no changes to the WiFi system (same chip, location, antenna, and firmware). I've been told - by (a) an engineer from a well-known EMC/TCB, and (b) an engineer at a local EMC test lab - that Class II permissive change only applies to intentional radiators. I can't find the legal language in Part 15 that spells this out; does anyone know? Does anyone want to confirm Engineering's assertion that SDoC will suffice? Thanks, Colorado Brian Please note: forwarded message attached From: David Schaefer To: Brian Gregory , "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" Subject: RE: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 15:42:24 + This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 RE: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change FromDavid Schaefer david.schae...@element.com DateAug 10, 11:42 AM To Brian Gregory brian_greg...@netzero.net, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Certification activities in the USA are handled by TCBs. Most test labs either have a separate TCB group, or work with a specific TCB for approvals. You should work with a lab to determine what tests need to be repeated, and take the data. Based on the new data the lab can determine if it is a Class 1 or Class 2. For a Class 2 the TCB will do a filing with the FCC. For a Class 1 you just need to keep the data on hand internally to prove the change was investigated. David Schaefer Technical Manager Element Materials Technology 9349 W Broadway Ave Brooklyn Park , MN 55445 , United States O +1 612 638 5136 ext. 10461 david.schae...@element.com www.element.com From: Brian Gregory [mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2023 10:01 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change CAUTION:This email originated from outside of Element Materials Technology. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please contact IT Service Desk if you are in any doubt about this email. Yes, we increased the Y-Caps to get more margin. And we did! So, to qualify for a Class 1 permissive change, we'd need to show before & after data ? Applying for a Class 2 permissive change, means FCC will look only at the latest data to be sure it passes? Colorado Brian -- Original Message -- From: John Woodgate To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 00:02:42 +0100 What are you changing about the Y-caps? If it's just a new supplier and the caps conform to the required component standard, there is no degradation. Reducing he capacitance would be a degradation for EMC but not for safety
Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...
When I worked for a manufacturer, only two countries in Europe stopped shipments of products to confirm we had done the testing required to apply the CE Mark. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the products that had fires were bought online from sellers on eBay or similar online services. There are eBay sellers in China that sell products that are made by manufacturers who do not identify themselves. They tend to not have manuals, labels, etc. I recently bought two RF Power meters to test. One was about $32 and one was $98 (USA dollars). Neither of them had the manfacture identified, etc. Neither preformed very well against the specifications the sellers were claiming. Single items being shipped in from China, bought online, will likely never be checked for certifications. Jim On July 28, 2023 5:23:22 AM Charlie Blackham wrote: Matthew I think the issue is, again, one of enforcement – the UK General Product Safety Regulations impose requirements on both manufacturers and importers, so there is existing legislation that could be used. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Matthew Wilson | GBE Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 10:11 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries... I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 27th July might be of interest. “Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as fireworks, heavy machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk they pose, a charity [UK based Electrical Safety First] has said” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66304564 Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the company, unless specifically stated. GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under number 06210991. Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength
Yes. The standards need to allow for possibilities. I have about a 3 dB gain antenna that is about a meter away from the charger port. It transmits about 15 watts at 144.39 MHz to send out an APRS position packet. I recently bought a PHEV, although my 2 minute timer is not yet installed, but it will be. The catch is I am not the only one doing this and who knows what the others have for antenna to charger spacing, etc. Although most of the Hams likely do not have EVs at the moment, but some do. Bob Bruninga WB4APR, who was the ham behind the creation of APRS drove a Prius. He passed away a few years ago. Info on APRS is at: http://www.aprs.org/ I could easily be on a handheld device and talking with someone when plugging or unplugging the charger cable. I had a issue many years ago where the hand held transceiver exposed a device to 45 V/m (someone else did the calculations). I had friends that in the late 1970s were remotely controlling transceivers in their cars. Cars at that time obviously were not EVs. They would use it at work. They owned the businesses, so they could play if they wanted to. The thing is others could be doing the same today, while the car is charging. Plus like I mentioned highway patrol cars use the same setup. If they start using EVs, they also would be a similar issue. Plus what if a car with a high powered transceiver parks near by? Jim On July 24, 2023 6:17:45 PM John Woodgate wrote: While the vehicle is on charge or vey near a charger? On 2023-07-24 23:12, Jim Bacher, WB8VSU wrote: John, I have transmitter that transmits on a VHF Frequency about 2 minutes after I shut the car off. A number of setups allow a person to use a hand held device to access a higher powered transceiver that is in the car. It's fairly common setup for highway patrol vehicles, due to distance from the control points. Jim On July 24, 2023 6:04:13 PM John Woodgate wrote: There are, but 20 V/m still is a very high value. One wouldn't expect a transmitter to be used in a car while it is on charge. On 2023-07-24 22:57, Jim Bacher, WB8VSU wrote: Wi-Fi and cell phones are not the only transmitters near cars. There are police, fire and ham radio transceivers in cars. Some of which are on gain antennas and can be remotely accessed to transmit. Not to mention hand held transceivers that might walk by. Jim, WB8VSU On July 24, 2023 5:51:27 PM Brian Gregory wrote: The reference for 20 V/m to EV chargers comes from UL 2231-2. This is not a medical standard, but Annex A does call out the medical standard 60601-1-2 as a reference, as well as CENELEC 50204. We can't figure out why; cell phones produce less than half that, and our WiFi transmitter is probably representative, and is rated well under 1 W. I could see a higher immunity standard as needed for commercial environments, say in a bank of 4-5 chargers. Following along in 61000-4-3, we agree with John that residential applications are clearly best matched to the definition for Class 2 environment, and the table in Clause 5 says the limits for Class 2 equipment is 3 V/m. 20 V/m does not show up in Clause 5 of 61000-4-3 for any class. So, I've should to reach out to a UL standards group and find out if this is really necessary for residential applications. Our local lab can't do more than 10, and an overseas affiliated lab is similarly limited. I'd like to know were this requirement comes from. This is more a question for EV Charging safety than a mainstream EMC question. As a backup, I could request a comment to Ken's point is if they define the peak of the modulation as 20 V/m. I don't know where these are defined. Thanks for all the detailed replies! Colorado Brian 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: John Woodgate To: Brian Gregory Subject: Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 18:05:59 +0100 61000-4-3 is a Basic Standard. It does not specify test levels but indicates possible test levels. You need to look in detail at Clause 5, but look at these words: Product committees shall select the appropriate test level for each frequency range needing to be tested as well as the frequency ranges. The residential environment is usually designated Class 2 (see Annex E of the standard), which calls for 3 V/m. == Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK I hear, and I forget. I see, and I remember. I do, and I understand. Xunzi (340 - 245 BC)On 2023-07-21 17:44, Brian Gregory wrote: Hello colleagues, We are building EV Chargers for residential markets (not just US) and one of the safety applicable standards is UL 2231-2. It calls out IEC 61000-4-3 for immunity testing parameters, which states a requirement for a field strength of 20V/m.
Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength
John, I have transmitter that transmits on a VHF Frequency about 2 minutes after I shut the car off. A number of setups allow a person to use a hand held device to access a higher powered transceiver that is in the car. It's fairly common setup for highway patrol vehicles, due to distance from the control points. Jim On July 24, 2023 6:04:13 PM John Woodgate wrote: There are, but 20 V/m still is a very high value. One wouldn't expect a transmitter to be used in a car while it is on charge. On 2023-07-24 22:57, Jim Bacher, WB8VSU wrote: Wi-Fi and cell phones are not the only transmitters near cars. There are police, fire and ham radio transceivers in cars. Some of which are on gain antennas and can be remotely accessed to transmit. Not to mention hand held transceivers that might walk by. Jim, WB8VSU On July 24, 2023 5:51:27 PM Brian Gregory wrote: The reference for 20 V/m to EV chargers comes from UL 2231-2. This is not a medical standard, but Annex A does call out the medical standard 60601-1-2 as a reference, as well as CENELEC 50204. We can't figure out why; cell phones produce less than half that, and our WiFi transmitter is probably representative, and is rated well under 1 W. I could see a higher immunity standard as needed for commercial environments, say in a bank of 4-5 chargers. Following along in 61000-4-3, we agree with John that residential applications are clearly best matched to the definition for Class 2 environment, and the table in Clause 5 says the limits for Class 2 equipment is 3 V/m. 20 V/m does not show up in Clause 5 of 61000-4-3 for any class. So, I've should to reach out to a UL standards group and find out if this is really necessary for residential applications. Our local lab can't do more than 10, and an overseas affiliated lab is similarly limited. I'd like to know were this requirement comes from. This is more a question for EV Charging safety than a mainstream EMC question. As a backup, I could request a comment to Ken's point is if they define the peak of the modulation as 20 V/m. I don't know where these are defined. Thanks for all the detailed replies! Colorado Brian 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: John Woodgate To: Brian Gregory Subject: Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 18:05:59 +0100 61000-4-3 is a Basic Standard. It does not specify test levels but indicates possible test levels. You need to look in detail at Clause 5, but look at these words: Product committees shall select the appropriate test level for each frequency range needing to be tested as well as the frequency ranges. The residential environment is usually designated Class 2 (see Annex E of the standard), which calls for 3 V/m. == Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK I hear, and I forget. I see, and I remember. I do, and I understand. Xunzi (340 - 245 BC)On 2023-07-21 17:44, Brian Gregory wrote: Hello colleagues, We are building EV Chargers for residential markets (not just US) and one of the safety applicable standards is UL 2231-2. It calls out IEC 61000-4-3 for immunity testing parameters, which states a requirement for a field strength of 20V/m. Our EMC expert says typically testing is "done at 3 Vrms, which is standard for most products in residential environments." He can only test up to 10V, and we're hearing the same from an overseas lab to whom our manufacturer refers. Does FCC Part B have guidelines for field strength we can cite? Can some offer this "DC guy" (aka, 60 Hz) a quick definition of what the 20V/m represents? I'm guessing 20 V/m is for higher density commercial applications, aka charging stations, so we probably need an exception for residential. Thank you! Colorado Brian 720-450-4933This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are arc
Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength
Wi-Fi and cell phones are not the only transmitters near cars. There are police, fire and ham radio transceivers in cars. Some of which are on gain antennas and can be remotely accessed to transmit. Not to mention hand held transceivers that might walk by. Jim, WB8VSU On July 24, 2023 5:51:27 PM Brian Gregory wrote: The reference for 20 V/m to EV chargers comes from UL 2231-2. This is not a medical standard, but Annex A does call out the medical standard 60601-1-2 as a reference, as well as CENELEC 50204. We can't figure out why; cell phones produce less than half that, and our WiFi transmitter is probably representative, and is rated well under 1 W. I could see a higher immunity standard as needed for commercial environments, say in a bank of 4-5 chargers. Following along in 61000-4-3, we agree with John that residential applications are clearly best matched to the definition for Class 2 environment, and the table in Clause 5 says the limits for Class 2 equipment is 3 V/m. 20 V/m does not show up in Clause 5 of 61000-4-3 for any class. So, I've should to reach out to a UL standards group and find out if this is really necessary for residential applications. Our local lab can't do more than 10, and an overseas affiliated lab is similarly limited. I'd like to know were this requirement comes from. This is more a question for EV Charging safety than a mainstream EMC question. As a backup, I could request a comment to Ken's point is if they define the peak of the modulation as 20 V/m. I don't know where these are defined. Thanks for all the detailed replies! Colorado Brian 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: John Woodgate To: Brian Gregory Subject: Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 18:05:59 +0100 61000-4-3 is a Basic Standard. It does not specify test levels but indicates possible test levels. You need to look in detail at Clause 5, but look at these words: Product committees shall select the appropriate test level for each frequency range needing to be tested as well as the frequency ranges. The residential environment is usually designated Class 2 (see Annex E of the standard), which calls for 3 V/m. == Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK I hear, and I forget. I see, and I remember. I do, and I understand. Xunzi (340 - 245 BC)On 2023-07-21 17:44, Brian Gregory wrote: Hello colleagues, We are building EV Chargers for residential markets (not just US) and one of the safety applicable standards is UL 2231-2. It calls out IEC 61000-4-3 for immunity testing parameters, which states a requirement for a field strength of 20V/m. Our EMC expert says typically testing is "done at 3 Vrms, which is standard for most products in residential environments." He can only test up to 10V, and we're hearing the same from an overseas lab to whom our manufacturer refers. Does FCC Part B have guidelines for field strength we can cite? Can some offer this "DC guy" (aka, 60 Hz) a quick definition of what the 20V/m represents? I'm guessing 20 V/m is for higher density commercial applications, aka charging stations, so we probably need an exception for residential. Thank you! Colorado Brian 720-450-4933This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following
Re: [PSES] Lithium Button Cell Battery - NRTL markings
John, the original manufacturer is allowed to Mark the shipping box instead of the part. To buy the battery from someone else, that someone else needs to be a UL Recognized repackager. A repackager is allowed to break the cells into smaller boxes and Mark the smaller shipping boxes with the UL mark. Jim On July 18, 2023 12:41:25 PM John Allen wrote: Hi guys, We are having a heck of time proving a button cell is actually UR - CR2354. UL IQ says it’s UR. The Battery is not marked. The Guide Card allows the marking to be on “packaging”. Our customer purchases the CR2354 on-line. The packaging it comes in is not marked. Is it possible the UR mark is on the Bulk packaging that the on-line supplier would have? Best Regards and Be Safe, John John Allen | President & CEO | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. Your Outsourced Compliance Department® 630-238-0188, Cell: 630-330-3145 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVSzENmSoWeNFSBQcOYN7-A www.productsafetyinc.com IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society President Elect 2023, President 2024-2025, Past President 2026 President 2016-2019 Compliance 101 Technical Committee Chairman IEEE Senior Member Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html Although PSC maintains the highest level of virus protection, this e-mail and any attachments should be scanned by your virus protection software. It is the responsibility of the recipient to check that it is virus free. PSC does not accept any responsibility for data loss or systems damage arising in any way from its use. This message is confidential and intended only for the individual to whom or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or addressee, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying, in whole or part, of this message is strictly prohibited. If you believe that you have been sent this message in error, please do not read it. Please immediately reply to sender that you have received this message in error. Then permanently delete all copies of the message. Thank you. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] FCC Part B questions
Brian, for margins it's not required by the standards. It is a "Personal Preference". I have always used and recommended 6 dB for prototypes / first production and 3 dB margin for production audits. As Brent mentioned there is variation in measured levels between test sites. However, your product in production will also have RF emission variations. All produced products need to be compliant, not just the one you tested. How consistent are your production units? If they are very consistent, then a lower margin might be Ok. Jim Bacher On July 8, 2023 12:41:10 AM Brian Gregory wrote: Hi there, A question came up that I can't answer w/o a copy of Part 47. Does the FCC report require Quasi-Peak (QP) data, or just Avg and Peak. When do peak readings trigger the need to report QP? I'm pretty sure Part 15 has AVG and QP limits listed. Next was what sort of margin is expected in order to pass CE emissions requirements (CISPR 16 or 32)? Memory serves that one wants 3dB of margin, but memories can be imperfect! "Colorado" Brian 720-450-4933 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher David Heald To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
[PSES] List Admins
It's time to cycle in new list Admins. Thanks to the list being on automatic and the great members of the list, it takes very little effort. If you are willing to assist, please contact me off list. I would like to thank the old admins Scott Douglas, Mike Cantwell and Dave Heald for their efforts in maintaining the list for many years. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU ja.bac...@outlook.com or j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
[PSES] Opening for a Senior Radio Compliance Engineer
Here is a company looking for someone. I know nothing about the company or position. https://jobs.lever.co/silvustechnologies/0f305662-7874-4ceb-bbb2-20ea0377987e Jim Bacher, WB8VSU j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Employment Opportunity / Environmental
Recieved this from a friend and passing it on in case someone is interested. He also said remote is acceptable. - Hi Jim Can you recommend candidate for regulatory compliance engineer that I am looking for? Have knowledge of RoHS/REACh/SCIP/ TSCA/Prop65 and/or Photobiologic testing (LEDS) and UL? Entry to mid level. Here is the Link: https://careers-creeled.icims.com/jobs/1607/regulatory-compliance-engineer/job Jim Bacher, WB8VSU j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] IEEE List Server Upgrade
On Tuesday, 2nd March 2022, between 6:00 am and 8:00 am EST, the IEEE Listserv will be upgraded. While it is the same Listserv that we have come to know, the web interface has been completely redesigned to improve user-friendliness and to support all types of devices, including tablets and smartphones. What this means to you: - During the upgrade, the Listserv service will not be processing emails. Any messages sent during the upgrade will be held and delivered once the upgrade completes - Web access to the Listserv will be unavailable during the application upgrade - All mailing lists will be migrated - It's mobile-friendly Jim Bacher, WB8VSU j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Information on the EMC Symposium and the Product Compliance Engineering Symposium
This year's IEEE EMC Symposium and the IEEE PSES Symposium are both Virtual events. For those of you who can not normally justify the cost of travel, this is a good year to attend one or both of them. A number of those on this compliance discussion list are presenting at these symposiums. Additionally I am the track chair for the EMC and Wireless track for the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society's (PSES) symposium, called IEEE International Symposium on Product Compliance Engineering (ISPCE). I still could use a couple more presentations for the track. The info for submitting is below. If you have any questions please let me know off list of course. Registration is now open. The EMC advanced program is available at this address: https://emc2021.emcss.org/advance-program.html The PSES advanced program will be available after the submission deadline. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU j.bac...@ieee.org JBRC Consulting LLC Product EMC & Regulatory Consultant https://trc.guru/ email:j...@trc.guru IEEE Life Senior Member -- Forwarded message - Date: Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 1:34 PM Subject: ISPCE 2021: Submit Now! View this email in your browser <https://mailchi.mp/e706f4f07d6b/ispce-2021-call-for-papers-388862?e=bba30a9821> <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=7ea838781a&e=bba30a9821> *DEADLINE EXTENSION* *June 27 2021: Formal Paper/Reviewable Presentation Submission Deadline* *There is still time to submit Formal Papers & Reviewable Presentations!* DOWNLOAD CFP <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=4878e5b68b&e=bba30a9821> *Annually, the IEEE International Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) hosts a premier symposium (ISPCE) on current topics relevant to people who are challenged to make products safe and compliant with ever-changing global codes, standards, and regulations.* *The fundamental activities covered in this symposium are critical aspects of virtually all Engineering endeavors AND they are now consuming greater time and attention from business leaders. This event provides an opportunity for inclusion and cross company collaboration that results in collective educational growth for all participants.* Important Dates *June 27, 2021 Formal Paper/Reviewable Presentation Submission Deadline * *July 18, 2021 Acceptance Notification Deadline* *August 22, 2021* *Final Camera-ready Paper/ Presentation Submission Deadline * Topics of Interest *»* *Arc Flash* *»* *Environmental Regulations, Sustainability & Circular Economy* *»* *Instrumentation and Laboratory Equipment* *»* *Batteries & Energy Storage Systems* *»* *Emerging Technologies & Innovations* *»* *Introductory or Advanced Design for Compliance* *»* *Compliance Documentation Management* *»* *Field Inspections & Evaluations* *»* *Laboratory Safety* *»* *Codes & Standards Development* *»* *Forensics, Failure & Risk Analysis* *»* *Cyber Security* *»* *Legal Regulations, Directives & Consumer Protection* *»* *Data Center Safety* *»* *Global Market Access* *»* *Medical Devices* *»* *EMC & Wireless Compliance* *»* *Grounding & Bonding* *»* *Product Labeling* *»* *Engineering & Safety Science* *»* *Hazard Based Safety Evaluations* *»* *Safety of Education and Healthcare facilities* *»* *Energy Efficiency Codes* *»* *Global Hazardous Locations* *»* *Technical Documentation* SUBMIT PAPER(S) <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=0c1d42f89b&e=bba30a9821> Keynote Speaker *Jim Bender* *North Texas IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society* Incorporating best practices to leverage extended benefits of an effective development and manufacturing certification compliance program. *An effective certification development and manufacturing process yields far more benefits than just satisfying NRTL obligations. Developing and implementing a comprehensive product safety certification compliance process taking into account key factors can avoid both needless and costly production delays while influencing a safer product. This keynote presentation will provide a high level overview of benefits, importance and examples of three key areas:* 1. *Specifying design criteria of safety critical components and subassemblies;* 2. *Recognizing how critical a comprehensive component level procurement specification is to assure an uninterrupted supply chain;* 3. *Designing components beyond minimum end-product safety certification requirements.* Conference Sponsors <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=a482a235c4&e=bba30a9821> <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=0da580a165&e=bba30a9821> [image: https://twitter.com/ieeeps
[PSES] Sr. Wireless Compliance Engineer Opening at Danaher
Respond to HR person below (not me). This is a edited version of what they sent to me. -- Forwarded message - Searching for a Sr. Wireless Compliance Engineer to join our water quality compliance team in Loveland, Colorado. This role would work specifically with Danaher's water quality companies who design and manufacture instrumentation such as Hach, Sea-Bird Scientific, and Trojan Technologies. The position would ideally be based at the Hach headquarters in Loveland, CO and relocation assistance would be provided. We are looking for a skilled Wireless Compliance Engineer who can evaluate and analyze instrumentation circuit designs in regards to regulatory standards and directives. The candidate could specialize in a number of areas from EMC, RF, FCC, ATEX, CDRH, and a number of others. Hunter Bisch Talent Acquisition, Danaher hunter.bi...@danaher.com (618) 384-0557 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Auto-Deletion of 558 Subscribers to EMC-PSTC
Please keep in mind if you run into issues with the list, best thing to do is send a private email to both Mike and Scott, rather than the list. Their email address are at the bottom of every email from the list, so they are easy to find. Reason for both, is one of them might be traveling and not have access to admin functions. As they have set the list back to manual deletion, there will no longer be automatic deletions from the list. They will not be as fast as the auto function and can judge what action is needed. The down side is they are going to be deluged with list admin emails, which will consume more of their time. Keep in mind they are volunteers, and are not paid IEEE employees. Same of course is true for Dave Heald and myself. Jim - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] EMC Engineer Position in San Jose
Posting for Wipro. Contact them for more information, not me. Job Title: EMC Design Engineer Location: San Jose CA Position Type: Fulltime - Permanent Job Description: Should be from Electronics / Electrical engineering Background with bachelors or master degree Ability to review Schematics, component placement and layouts for Compliance to EMC Design Standards Multi-layer PCB design knowledge Ability to review Mechanical Housings for Compliance to EMC Design Standards Ability to perform EMC simulations with RF simulators Perform EMC simulations with analog circuit simulators Review EMC Test data (formal & pre-compliance data) to assist in Root Cause and Corrective Actions Design Surge protection circuits Hands-on EMC Lab Troubleshooting Experience with Spectrum Analyzer/EMI Receiver Anitha Chowdary Talent Acquisition Specialist at Wipro Limited M +1 732-436-5196 mutyala.chowd...@wipro.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] IEEE Symposium on Compliance Engineering ++
Early Bird rates for the IEEE Symposium on Product Compliance Engineering ends on April 1, 2019. For those of you who are new to product compliance, it has a Compliance 101 track. Schedule of presentations is now available at: https://psessymposium.org/pages/schedule Symposium details at: https://psessymposium.org/ This years main IEEE EMC Symposium is in New Orleans, July 22 - 26, 2019 .See this website for details: https://www.emc2019.emcss.org/ For those of you who can not get to the main symposiums there are other events in other parts of the USA and world. Jim EMC and Wireless Track Chair for IEEE Symposium on Product Compliance Engineering - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] RED products in EMC compliance part
Scott, What's important is what will the customs in Europe accept for your product when you ship it in. I have on numerous occasions had to have a similar discussion with customs as to what was required for a product shipment. Having a understanding of what the others said will be to your advantage if that happens to one of your products. Jim Bacher, JB Consulting Product Regulatory Compliance Consultant https://trc.guru/ IEEE Life Senior Member j.bac...@ieee.org > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Reminder / Product Compliance Symposium and EMC Symposium
Just a reminder that IEEE PSES Product Compliance Symposium symposium is next week. See http://psessymposium.org for what the presentations are and the schedule will be. There are several people on this email list who are doing presentations there. The IEEE EMC Society has numerous symposiums throughout the year. Check it's website to find the nearest one to you. One of which is next week in Asia. http://www.emcss.org/ Jim - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] IEC 60601-1-2: 2014 Basic Safety and Essential Performance Pass/Fail Criteria
What do you mean by stopped working? Were you able to power it down, then turn it back on to get the product back to normal operations? I am not familiar with medical standards, however generally all ESD standards expect a product to function normally during and after testing. Without knowing more details and from a generic standpoint, I would consider that to be a failure . Some standards will allow a product to be restarted to return to normal operation and still consider it a pass. I have crossed paths with a number of companies who contend regulations do not apply to them, when the standards did apply to them. So when a company tells me their product does not require safety certification I get nervous. I usually tell them going through a safety certification is cheap insurance. Then explain the cost of recalls and how a safety certification can help prevent a recall. Jim Bacher, JB Consulting Product Regulatory Compliance Consultant https://trc.guru/ IEEE Life Senior Member j.bac...@ieee.org On Dec 28, 2017 1:48 AM, "itl-emc user group" wrote: Hello A manufacturer of medical equipment has declared that his device has no basic safety or essential requirements. During ESD testing, the device stopped working after Air Discharges of ±15 kV were applied. Is this regarded as a failure according to the standard? No Part 2 particular Safety standards are involved. Thanks in advance for any responses. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Fwd: ISPCE 2018 Call for Submissions
Below is the call for papers for PSES Symposium on Product Compliance Engineering next May (2018). As in past years John Allen is the track chair for Compliance 101 and I am the track chair for the EMC and Wireless Track. If you are new to Compliance attending the symposium is a good way to help get up to speed. For those who have been in compliance for awhile, it is a good way to stay current. For both groups it is a chance to network with experts and some of those on the standards committees. Jim Bacher, JB Consulting Product Regulatory Compliance Consultant https://trc.guru/ IEEE Life Senior Member j.bac...@ieee.org -- Forwarded message -- Date: Nov 27, 2017 10:01 AM Subject: ISPCE 2018 Call for Submissions To: "James" Cc: View the ISPCE 2018 Website <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=44d05bd8a7&e=bba30a9821> View this email in your browser <http://mailchi.mp/conferencecatalysts/ispce-2018-call-for-submissions-373889?e=bba30a9821> <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=3d12b7b054&e=bba30a9821> Want to advance your career? *Submit a presentation or formal paper to be presented at ISPCE!* Submit Your Work Today <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=5e6f11eedf&e=bba30a9821> *CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS* The IEEE Symposium on Product Compliance Engineering (ISPCE 2018) is now seeking original and unpublished formal papers, presentations (without formal papers), workshops, and tutorials on all aspects of product safety and compliance engineering, including but not limited to: - Global Market Access & Regulations, Compliance Management - EMC & Wireless Compliance - Environmental & Energy Regulations - Batteries & Energy Storage Systems - Medical Devices - Compliance 101 - Test Methods & Ensuring Quality of Test Results - Hazard-based Safety Engineering & Safety Science - Forensics, Failure & Risk Analysis, Assessment & Management - Legal, Regulations, Directives & Consumer Protection - Emerging Technologies & Innovations - Global Hazardous Locations *Important Dates:* Initial Formal Paper/Presentation Deadline – *January 1, 2018* Notification of Acceptance – *February 1, 2018* Final Camera-ready Paper/Presentation Submission & Author Registration Deadline –* March 18, 2018* Opening day of ISPCE 2018 - *May 14, 2018* [image: ISPCE LinkedIn Group] <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=bbc5521499&e=bba30a9821> ISPCE LinkedIn Group <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=7afd5770ad&e=bba30a9821> [image: PSES Twitter] <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=3c425e63f6&e=bba30a9821> PSES Twitter <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=35859a6c30&e=bba30a9821> [image: PSES Facebook] <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=5f7e7a6345&e=bba30a9821> PSES Facebook <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=08fee492a3&e=bba30a9821> [image: ISPCE Website] <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=7c9f87e9f0&e=bba30a9821> ISPCE Website <https://conferencecatalysts.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a56289c418698825973a992ba&id=26353c2706&e=bba30a9821> [image: Email] Email *Copyright © 2017 Conference Catalysts, LLC,* - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] God EMC practice
What I have always set as a target is 6 dB better than spec on prototype / first units tested, then 3 dB better on production audits. That may no longer be good enough. The reason is a lot of products now have radio receivers in them as in Bluetooth, wifi, NFC, and RFID. If your unintentionally radiation is at the same frequency range as your receiver, your radio performance will be degraded even if you are 6 dB down from the limit. Another thing to consider is that the rf noise floor is increasing. One solution to help minimize the increasing floor is to lower the unintentionally radiation requirements. So it could be in another 10 years the limits might become 10 dB more strict. Learn from the EMC experts, a number of which are on this list, and your products will easily meet the margins I suggested. Jim Bacher, JB Consulting Product Regulatory Compliance Consultant https://trc.guru/ IEEE Life Senior Member j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts
Brian, the following is just general lightning info. Many years ago I posted a story about what can happen when a MOV failed along with a improper electrical ground in the service panel and a miss wired electrical outlet. It should be findable in the list archive. Being a ham radio operator at the last house my tower was hit at least once a year and would have equipment damage. However once I grounded and bonded things correctly, there was no more damage. During the last strike to cause damage, it arked over between all three wires going to the radios, but not at the same outlet. I had a two to 6 plug outlet plugged into the wall. It arked on the wall outlet and on the front surface of the multiple outlet device. It just about permanently welded the two items together. So as Rich said there are things that limit the voltages. What I have learned over the years, it is how the building is grounded and how the grounds are bonded together that makes the difference in equipment survival of a lightning strike. It is far more important than equipment design to survive lightning. A good book on proper grounding and bonding was just published by the ARRL. It is called Grounding and Bonding for the Radio Amateur. It also happens to have safety related information in it. Jim - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] ANSI C63.4 Courses
The IEEE Standards Society along with ANSI have done a few in the USA in the past. Currently ANSI does not have any listed, but their webpage lists a contact to check with. You might check with them to see if they are starting to plan any. The web page is: http://www.c63.org/documents/c63/c63_workshops.htm Jim Bacher JB Consulting Regulatory Compliance Consultant https://trc.guru/ IEEE Life Senior Member On Apr 11, 2017 10:49 AM, "Grasso, Charles" wrote: > Hello – Other than the workshop provided during the EMC Symposium, > does anyone know of an ANSI C63.4 workshop in the US? > > > > Best Regards > > Charles Grasso > > Compliance Engineer > > Dish Technologies > > (w) 303-706-5467 <(303)%20706-5467> > > (c) 303-204-2974 <(303)%20204-2974> > > (t) 3032042...@vtext.com > > (e ) *charles.gra...@dish.com * > > (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] add 60950 to a new supplier's product which only has FCC?
Adam, depends on how well you want company A hidden from company B's customers. As Rich commented on safety I will comment on FCC. On the FCC depends on whether there is a transmitter involved as to what path can be used and how to address. If there is no transmitter, you can just issue a cover letter explaining the difference between the two versions of the product and why the first report is valid. If you are trying to hide the first company, most labs for a fee will rewrite the report listing company B instead of company A in a new set of reports. The labs will want copies of agreements and other paper work to make sure it is only labels/model numbers that are different. Jim On Jan 29, 2017 4:18 PM, "Adam Dixon" wrote: > Similar to last year's Company A/B Multiple Listee for CE discussion, is > there a good path to take a finished product built by Company A which only > has FCC certification and have Company B add 60950 safety certification? > Seems like it should be an "all or nothing" proposition (i.e. Company B > repeats FCC?) for proper traceability in the North American market similar > to the final relationships and checks that Rodney, Charlie and Steve mapped > out for the EU. Thoughts? > > Cheers, > Adam > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV?
It is ok to post recommendations on devices that are good for testing to this list. As the list is archived one can always search the archives for such things. I have used several approaches to finding good support devices. I have like others looked at FCC test reports. For the most part it was after getting recommendations to make sure it was a good choice. I look to make sure it was tested properly and had 6 dB of margin. That allows for production variations. I have on rare occasions looked for good support devices on the FCC website. I have also contacted compliance engineers at the company of interest to see what they recommend. In one case they told me not to use theirs. Not everyone supplies all support devices needed for testing. So the test labs do have support devices. Therefore you can ask your test lab as well, as they might have favorite support devices. Jim - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] EN 300 328 - Bluetooth testing
I should have mentioned that I always asked the OEM for copies of at least the FCC / IC and CE test reports. Along with copies of certificates for any other countries we were going to sell into to make sure it had been through certification. Once I had the reports I would review them to look for issues. I only remember one product that had issues. They claimed it had the Canadian certifications, when it didn't. After a few days of arguing, they realized they failed to certify it and corrected the issue. Jim On Jan 9, 2017 9:04 AM, "Jim Bacher" wrote: > I have only tested modules produced by others, however I have never had a > failure. The biggest issue has been getting the software to properly > control the device so it could be tested easily. > > On Jan 9, 2017 3:41 AM, "Amund Westin" wrote: > >> To you guys who have deep experience with Bluetooth test and approvals >> according to EN 300 328, are there any of the required tests that is really >> hard to fulfil and often fails during tests, and therefore should have >> special attention during the development phase? >> >> ... or requirements that often lead to discussions because it can have >> several interpretations >> >> >> Thanks for all feedbacks! >> >> >> EN 300 328 requirements: >> -RF output power >> -Power Spectral Density >> -Duty Cycle, Tx-sequence, Tx-gap >> -Accumulated Transmit time,Frequency Occupation & Hopping Sequence >> -Hopping Frequency Separation >> -Medium Utilization (MU) factor >> -Adaptivity >> -Occupied Channel Bandwidth >> -Transmitter unwanted emissions in the out-of-band domain >> -Transmitter unwanted emissions in the spurious domain >> -Receiver spurious emissions >> -Receiver Blocking >> -Geo-location capability >> >> >> >> Best regards >> Amund >> >> - >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < >> emc-p...@ieee.org> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site >> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in >> well-used formats), large files, etc. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas >> Mike Cantwell >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher: >> David Heald: >> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] EN 300 328 - Bluetooth testing
I have only tested modules produced by others, however I have never had a failure. The biggest issue has been getting the software to properly control the device so it could be tested easily. On Jan 9, 2017 3:41 AM, "Amund Westin" wrote: > To you guys who have deep experience with Bluetooth test and approvals > according to EN 300 328, are there any of the required tests that is really > hard to fulfil and often fails during tests, and therefore should have > special attention during the development phase? > > ... or requirements that often lead to discussions because it can have > several interpretations > > > Thanks for all feedbacks! > > > EN 300 328 requirements: > -RF output power > -Power Spectral Density > -Duty Cycle, Tx-sequence, Tx-gap > -Accumulated Transmit time,Frequency Occupation & Hopping Sequence > -Hopping Frequency Separation > -Medium Utilization (MU) factor > -Adaptivity > -Occupied Channel Bandwidth > -Transmitter unwanted emissions in the out-of-band domain > -Transmitter unwanted emissions in the spurious domain > -Receiver spurious emissions > -Receiver Blocking > -Geo-location capability > > > > Best regards > Amund > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] UL Follow Up Service vs CIG Inspection
CIG factory inspection reports can be used to avoid inspections by off shore certification bodies, which saves time and money. As you are new to compliance you should consider attending the IEEE PSES Symposium on Compliance Engineering. A number of those answering questions on this list will be there allowing you to learn from them in person. Details at: http://2017.psessymposium.org On Jan 2, 2017 10:16 AM, "Vincent Lee" < 08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > > Hi all, > > Happy 2017. > > As I am a beginner in product safety, may I know what is the differences > between UL Follow Up Service (to maintain UL Markings such as UL Listed and > UL Recognized) and CIG Inspection ? > > Does it mean that when a production line is found to be compliance after > UL Follow Up Service, only a little more tasks are needed to be done for > compliance during CIG Inspection and vice versa ? > > Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you and have a blessed 2017. > > Vincent > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] confused about the following exempted equipment from the FCC
Gary, my understanding is section B applies to electric utilities only, or electric utility hardware. In some cases a company might have their own electric generation capability so it would apply to that equipment as well. It does not apply to generic industrial equipment. Something to big to fit in a chamber may be tested at the location where it is installed. Several of the test houses have mobile test vehicles to do such testing. Jim On Dec 16, 2016 1:51 PM, "Gary McInturff" wrote: > *This seems to imply that as long as your sticking a device normally > subject to the published limits and tests can be ignored if it is going > into a large industrial park. So for example and automated box sealing > equipment located inside of an industrial part is exempted from the limits > and tests normally associated with digital equipment. There is still the > caveat that it can’t interfere but I assume that this would only happen > because of a complaint from adjacent users. How about theme parks etc. The > public utilities in the US have many exemptions to the regulations but not > industrial locations. I presumed that testing in those case for large > equipment that didn’t fit in a chamber was subject to at least in-situ > testing. But I’m clueless how those measurements would include or exclude > the devices EMC performance.* > > *15.103 Exempted devices.* > > The following devices are subject only to the general conditions of > operation in §§15.5 and 15.29 and are exempt from the specific technical > standards and other requirements contained in this part. The operator of > the exempted device shall be required to stop operating the device upon a > finding by the Commission or its representative that the device is causing > harmful interference. Operation shall not resume until the condition > causing the harmful interference has been corrected. Although not > mandatory, it is strongly recommended that the manufacturer of an exempted > device endeavor to have the device meet the specific technical standards in > this part. > > (a) A digital device utilized exclusively in any transportation vehicle > including motor vehicles and aircraft. > > (b) A digital device used exclusively as an electronic control or power > system utilized by a public utility or in an industrial plant. The term > *public > utility* includes equipment only to the extent that it is in a dedicated > building or large room owned or leased by the utility and does not extend > to equipment installed in a subscriber's facility. > > > > > > Gary McInturff > > Reliability/Compliance Engineer > > > > > > > > > > > > *Esterline Interface Technologies* > > *Featuring * > > *ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, LRE MEDICAL, and MEMTRON products* > > 600 W. Wilbur AvenueCoeur d’Alene, ID 83815-9496 > > Toll Free: 800-444-5923 <(800)%20444-5923> > > Tel: (208) 635-8306 > > www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies > > *Technology, Innovation, Performance…* > > "Information in or attached to this e-mail message may be subject to > export control restrictions of the International Traffic in Arms > Regulations (ITAR) (22 CFR pts. 120-130) or the Export Administration > Regulations (EAR) (15 CFR pts. 730-774). Before exporting this information > outside the United States or releasing it to a foreign person in the United > States, you need to determine whether a license under the EAR or the ITAR > is required to do so. If you have any questions about this obligation, > please contact me." > > Click here > <http://www.esterline.com/governance/email_disclaimer/tabid/1532/Default.aspx> > to read disclaimer > > > > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@iee
[PSES] Product Compliance Symposium / Call For Papers or Presentations
At the following link you will find the call for papers and presentations for the 2017 IEEE Symposium on Product Compliance Engineering (ISPCE) http://2017.psessymposium.org/ John Allen is again the track chair for the Compliance 101 track at the symposium. You can contact John at this email address: jral...@productsafetyinc.com I will once again be the track chair for the EMC and Wireless Track at the symposium. I am looking for 101 / introductory presentations. My email address is: j.bac...@ieee.org You are welcome to contact us directly if you have any questions about doing a paper or presentation. Jim - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] RE from Flat Panel ICs
As Amund says impedance is important. If your traces transition to different layers, did you maintain the correct impedance on all the layers? One of the more common reasons for having issues is not dealing with the signal return current. It is not noted on the schematics, so it is usually overlooked during layout. It is hard for a lot of designers to see the issue as they do the layout. The signal return current path needs to form a transmission line / microstrip with the signal trace. Otherwise the signal trace is an antenna, which is not what you want. On Oct 15, 2016 2:26 AM, "Amund Westin" wrote: > > LVDS issues … exactly the same lenght / impedance on all I/O lines and add common mode chokes on all lines aswell. > > > > Best regards > > Amund > > > > > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Counterfeit tracking
There is a community site for discussions on compliance, which is listed in the footer as a place for large attachments. However the bulk of the users preferred email, so it has never had a lot of activity. The Online Communities site is at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ The archive for the email list is at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html As others mentioned there are several LinkedIn groups as well. Some of those are focused on specific TC (technical committee) subjects. Just search for PSES on LinkedIn. The best and fastest responses will be on this email list. Jim - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Wireless certification for large scale industrial equipment for professional use.
Paul, it is easier to tell you where modular certification is accepted, which is USA, Canada, Russia, EU, and conditionally China and Japan. All other countries do not accept modular approvals. 1.a: Yes, however your product becomes the wireless device and must be certified accordingly. 1.b: Conditionally that can be done. 1.c: Other than the answer above the rest of your questions in 1.c are too broad to answer. Jim On Sep 21, 2016 11:39 AM, "Paul Smith" < 087c2b357f23-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > I have questions on wireless in fixed Large scale stationary industrial > equipment (permanent connected 3 phase, 150A / phase , 1000 Kgm ). Can you > help me with the following wireless questions? > > 1) *Purchased *wireless device: > a) *Can the *wireless device be designed permanently into the > industrial equipment? > > b) *Or should the *wireless device be shipped and installed > aftermarket? > > c) *Can you provide a modular approval?* > i) *Where is the modular approvals not accepted?* > ii) *Where is local in-country residency required?* > iii) *Where is in-country testing required?* > (1) Does testing include the wireless module only? > (2) Does testing also include the assemblies that utilize the wireless > module? > (3) Does testing also include the whole industrial system as well? > > Any information would be greatly appreciated. > Regards Paul J Smith > > paul...@yahoo.com > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Meet some of the list admins at the PSES Symposium next week
Rich and I will be at the IEEE PSES table at 5:00 PM on Tuesday May 17 St the symposium, if you want easily find us. On May 9, 2016 7:29 PM, "Jim Bacher" wrote: > The following emc-pstc list admins will be at the IEEE PSES Symposium on > Product Compliance Engineering May 16-18 in Anaheim California: > > Rich Nute (former admin) > Dan Roman > Jim Bacher > > > If you are in the LA area or are attending the symposium, look us up. > > The tentative program schedule has been posted for this year's product > compliance symposium at http://2016.psessymposium.org . There are a > couple good tracks for someone getting stated in compliance (in addition to > the other tracks), which are Compliance 101 and the EMC and Wireless > Track. > > I am the track chair for the EMC and Wireless Track at the symposium. The > track has good information in it for those starting to do transmitter > certifications along with starting in EMC. > > You may not know this, but 90% of all products fail on their first trip > to the EMC lab (safety labs as well). The bulk of the products I was > involved with passed with margin on their first trip to the lab. I am > doing a presentation on what I looked for in design reviews that > accomplished that. > > Jim > j.bac...@ieee.org > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Meet some of the list admins at the PSES Symposium next week
John, for EMC (and safety) most of the labs do not want to provide details as to what the failures were. One lab that does both safety and EMC, happened to mention that the 90% rule applied to safety as well as EMC, but would no discuss details, nor do they want me to mention their name. It points out we need to do a better job in the development stage of products.. On EMC I can provide a little better detail as one of the labs found my comments about failure rates interesting and stared tracking the rates. I mentioned it as part of a general conversation about a experience at a EMC lab back when the CE mark first started. I had taken 3 products to a lab to have them generate the EMC reports for Europe. They did the radiated emissions first. As the products had been previously tested to FCC Class A they did not have issues with radiated emissions. Then we went to the RF susceptibility tests. About half way through the first units test the technician stopped the tests and started playing with his equipment. He seemed flustered so I ask what was up. He said that there had to be something wrong with the equipment. I ask him why he through that and he said they had never had a product pass that far in to the testing on the first trip to the lab. So I told him I would have been surprised it it had failed. I got a weird look from him, so he went in and talked to others, came back out and finished the tests. All three products passed with no changes, so I broke their streak. After that I always asked the person running the tests what percentage they felt passed on the first trip. They were just guessing but gave very low numbers. I have used a number of different labs and they all responded about the same. The information from John is a little old, so by now he likely would have more significant numbers. Here is what John Barnes gave me to use in my presentation on EMC: I've (John Barnes) been doing an informal study of dBi's first-try pass rates for over 3 years now, and it is still incomplete. But having electromagnetic-compatibility (EMC)/ electromagnetic interference (EMI)/ electrostatic discharge (ESD) tested over 360 products since February 2002, my gut feel is that: About 5 to 10% of the 323 products brought to us for official testing passed with no changes. * About 45-50% passed with only minor changes-- and we completed the testing on the first try, within our budgetary estimate. * About 45-50% passed after major changes, which sometimes took 6+ months to complete. Changes to printed circuit boards are especially painful and costly! I would guess the same percentages are probably true for safety such as 45 - 50 % had minor issues. Jim j.bac...@ieee.org On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 3:58 PM, John Woodgate wrote: > Re your last paragraph. Is it possible to categorize that 90% into, e.g. > trivial, documentation only, significant, serious? This is all to support > the 'Design it in!' movement, which potentially saves the industry > megabucks annually. > > > > With best wishes OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk > > J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England > > > > *From:* Jim Bacher [mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 3:30 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] Meet some of the list admins at the PSES Symposium next > week > > > > The following emc-pstc list admins will be at the IEEE PSES Symposium on > Product Compliance Engineering May 16-18 in Anaheim California: > > > > Rich Nute (former admin) > > Dan Roman > > Jim Bacher > > > If you are in the LA area or are attending the symposium, look us up. > > The tentative program schedule has been posted for this year's product > compliance symposium at http://2016.psessymposium.org . There are a > couple good tracks for someone getting stated in compliance (in addition to > the other tracks), which are Compliance 101 and the EMC and Wireless Track. > > I am the track chair for the EMC and Wireless Track at the symposium. The > track has good information in it for those starting to do transmitter > certifications along with starting in EMC. > > You may not know this, but 90% of all products fail on their first trip > to the EMC lab (safety labs as well). The bulk of the products I was > involved with passed with margin on their first trip to the lab. I am > doing a presentation on what I looked for in design reviews that > accomplished that. > > > Jim > > j.bac...@ieee.org > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on t
[PSES] Meet some of the list admins at the PSES Symposium next week
The following emc-pstc list admins will be at the IEEE PSES Symposium on Product Compliance Engineering May 16-18 in Anaheim California: Rich Nute (former admin) Dan Roman Jim Bacher If you are in the LA area or are attending the symposium, look us up. The tentative program schedule has been posted for this year's product compliance symposium at http://2016.psessymposium.org . There are a couple good tracks for someone getting stated in compliance (in addition to the other tracks), which are Compliance 101 and the EMC and Wireless Track. I am the track chair for the EMC and Wireless Track at the symposium. The track has good information in it for those starting to do transmitter certifications along with starting in EMC. You may not know this, but 90% of all products fail on their first trip to the EMC lab (safety labs as well). The bulk of the products I was involved with passed with margin on their first trip to the lab. I am doing a presentation on what I looked for in design reviews that accomplished that. Jim j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] User Name change request to the Administrators?
John, to the best of my knowledge the name is set by your email client not the list server. Depending on what client the both of you are running one of you might be able to make the tweak. Also depending on what client, I should be able to provide the info to make the tweak. Just get with me directly and not on the list. If you would like to meet the other John Allen (or me for that matter), he will likely be at the IEEE PSES Symposium in a couple weeks. Jim On Apr 14, 2016 4:59 AM, "John Allen" wrote: > Good morning > > > > I am John Allen in the UK but there is also another John Allen in the US – > and we both show as having the same User Name in our posts, but this can be > confusing to both ourselves and other posters. > > > > Therefore, is there a way that one of the Administrators to make a change > to differentiate the two people – for example, my middle name is Edward and > therefore I would be happy for my User Name to be changed to something like > “John E Allen”. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > John E Allen > > W.London, UK > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] change address
Rodney, the instructions are at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html However if you send me or one of the other admins (not to the list) what you want your email address to be we will change it for you. All admin email addresses are at the bottom of all list emails. Jim jim.bac...@ieee.org On Apr 22, 2016 10:03 AM, "Rodney Davis" wrote: > Can someone explain how I can change the email address in my account? > > > Rodney Davis > > > -- > NOTE: This e-mail (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the > intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential > and/or protected by legal privilege. Any unauthorized review, use, copy, > disclosure or distribution of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please notify Mitel immediately and destroy > all copies of this e-mail. Mitel does not accept any liability for breach > of security, error or virus that may result from the transmission of this > message. > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Test Email - Delete
Test of Emc-pstc email list. Jim Bacher List admin Past President IEEE PSES j.bac...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: GIFS on the EMC-PSTC list
Gif's, large files, etc. can be posted on:
http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
The email list is currently set to allow files up to 100k. There were a number
of reasons for doing so. I wanted to pass on the ones that were key for
setting it to 100k.
For one a number of our members travel to countries were connections speeds can
be as low as 1200kbs. If you are traveling in such a place large files are an
issue and could interfere with the persons work emails.
One other major issue is we have about 1000 people on the list. All of which
get an email. So a 1 meg file is multiplied by 1000, so it becomes 1 gig worth
of data the email servers have to deal with. As the emails systems make the
files bigger than the original size they grow in size during transit and shrink
it at the other end, it would likely be more like 1.4g that the servers would
have to transfer. So email is not a good way to transfer files when dealing
with a list server, although it is an easy way.
A number of email systems filter attachments. So the only way to insure
everyone gets a copy of your file is to post it on the web page. A number of
companies are starting to limit the size of files to under 100k.
The IEEE email filters may filter GIFs as they can carry viruses, etc.
Jim
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org
Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Quiet PC for RE
Naftali, Are the PC's causing the issue or is it RF noise coming in on the AC line? Try unplugging the Laptops from the AC and running them on batteries to see if the noise goes away. You may need to filter the AC lines going to the support equipment. If you are testing on a make shift site you will need to filter the AC going to the EUT as well. If you can, place the support equipment off the end of the antenna, in the antennas null. There is a company that makes a filtered line cord that is filtered at the end that plugs into the wall (I do not recall their name and could not find them on a search). I have a PC that I bought recently that passed with margin when I bought it. However, the last time out it failed. Over the years I have found some of them need to have their shields readjusted after use (the one with the issue is a desktop so it is easy to clean and adjust). In some cases wire ties have failed and internal cables ended up in places they did not belong. There are a lot of items like hubs, switches, USB adapters that are above the limits. So you must be careful on what you are using. Recently I had bought a USB to serial adapter for personal use as it had diagnostic LEDs on it. I used it on a test as it was handy, only to find it was over Class A limits (I guess they did not understand differential pairs). You can ask the list for what what PC's are RF quiet. I am sure there will be a number of responses with current model compliant PCs that you could use. Jim At 08:49 AM 9/24/2008, N.Shani wrote: >All supplier/maker/vendor names withheld in order to protect the >innocent and minimize bias. > >This may have been raised in the past, but I need a refresher and >advice: helping a 3rd party to perform RE testing, and we are seeing >fairly high ambient noise level that is very close to Class B (EUT >is off, only support equipment on) that is in the range of 35-85 MHz >broadband and is coming off the laptops. >The 2 laptops are located outside the AFC and are connected to the >EUT via UTPs running either 100M or 1G traffic from the on-board >Ethernet ports. >Attempts to use a PCMCIA card, desktop PC or dedicated traffic >generator are not showing a better results (it is worse). > >Questions: >1. Is this common? >2. If we add an Ethernet hub, will it help to bring down the noise floor? >3. What are the common tricks used by others to suppress the noise: >ferrites (make, model?) and how many turns, filtered adapters (make, model?) > >Thanks in advance, Naftali - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Reminder: IEEE Symposium on Product Safety Engineering -- Call for Papers
Reminder: The "Intent to present and topic" for your paper to be presented at the 2004 IEEE SYMPOSIUM ON PRODUCT SAFETY ENGINEERING is to be e-mailed by April 1, 2004, so time is running out. You have only a few days left to come up with a topic and let us know your desire to present it. See http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium/Call4Papers2004.pdf for more details. You do not have to have the paper written by April 1, only a topic. Subject: IEEE Symposium on Product Safety Engineering -- Call for Papers 2004 IEEE SYMPOSIUM ON PRODUCT SAFETY ENGINEERING August 13-14-15, 2004 Santa Clara Convention Center (immediately following the 2004 IEEE Symposium on EMC at the same location) The IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society seeks original, unpublished papers and tutorials on all aspects of product safety engineering including, but not limited to: Test and Measurement Products Medical Products Consumer Products ITE Products Telecommunication Products Home Appliances Electrical Hazards Mechanical Hazards Fire Hazards Optical (Laser, etc.) Hazards Thermal Hazards Radiation Hazards Grounding Insulation Testing Body responses Power Engineering Standards Developments Safety Certifications System and Software Safety * Formal paper (presented in a formal session, as short as 15 minutes to as long as 45 minutes). * Informal (poster) paper (presented in an informal, small gathering in a hall with similar on-going presentations). * Technical demonstration paper (similar to informal paper except using equipment hopefully provided by one of our exhibitors). * Tutorial/Workshop (a single- or multiple-speaker program on related topics and filling a 3- or 4-hour program segment). * War Stories Workshop (informal, both prepared presentations, and off-the-cuff presentations from the audience, of product safety conundrums, perplexities, enigma, etc., and their resolution or lack of resolution). Here are some of the presentations already in preparation: * Intro to Hazard Based Safety Engineering * Thermal safety of laptop computers * Intro to electrically-caused fire and fire safeguards * Safeguarding from low-voltage non-isolated switched dc * Predicting cumulative leakage current in a plug strip * On-line tools for keeping in-house users up-to-date * Standards and certification, interpretation, status, future We are not necessarily looking for high-level esoteric papers, but also practical, everyday material that you can share. Every subscriber to this forum has material suitable for this symposium! If you are interested in presenting at the Symposium, please contact me for more details. Best regards, Richard Nute Technical Program Chairman, 2004 IEEE Symposium on Product Safety Engineering e-mail: ri...@ieee.org Tel: 858-655-3329
RE: RFID Demo Equipment and the FCC / Industry Canada
John, one of the issues is when does something stop being a component/module that is not required to be tested and becomes a product that must be tested? The module/device does not have a complete enclosure, nor did it include power supplies, but it did include an antenna. The device with the antenna is something that they will be selling to others, not just us, which is why I called it off the shelf. The vendor sold us a "Development Kit" to use in the process of integrating it into our printers. For us to buy such an item is no big issue as we do have an engineering department and do have RF test capability up into the 10's of Ghz (including a 3 meter site). As they had a development kit, I was asked if we could do the same. We have already told the vendor they must certify the device, so we can base our certifications off of theirs. Thanks, for the article reference. We did have one of the TCB's request an audit of one of our wireless products earlier this year and have been audited by foreign governments in the past. Jim From: John Shinn [mailto:john.sh...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 5:35 PM To: 'Jacob Schanker'; 'Jim Bacher'; 'Emc-Pstc (E-mail)' Subject: RE: RFID Demo Equipment and the FCC / Industry Canada I'm not sure what you mean by a develpment kit. Does that mean a prototype unit with the intent to replace it later some time in the future? Also, you used the phrase "off the shell" - did you mean "off the shelf" and if so, why is an "of the shelf" device not complete with the appropriate certifications? As Jacob said, the FCC Rules are clear and trying to get around them by trying to change the wording is not a safe way to go. Be realistic. How do you know the unit will comply in the forseeable future. You may end up with products out there that cannot ever work at a reasonable cost. Then you would have to buy the products back from your customers, and maybe any equipment that is no longer usable due to not having your printer and associated device legal. See Conformity, November 2003, Volume 8, No. 10, Page10, right column, and then do it right. Regards, John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations San Jose, CA This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RFID Demo Equipment and the FCC / Industry Canada
I have a question about use of a none certified device in the USA and Canada. We have acquired an off the shell RFID system, which has not yet gone through any certification (they will be certifying it shortly). We are integrating this into our printers. The printers will use this device to read and write information to the tags as they pass through the printer. While we are working on this we have customers who would like to start working on getting this integrated into their production systems. The FCC says that until we certify it we can not offer the product for sale or lease, etc. Could we put the following label on the product : "This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained." Then sell a development kit to the customer that included a printer with the uncertified unit in it (to a very limited number of people). Then when we are done with the certifications, swap the development printers/RFID units out for ones that are certified? Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Americas, Inc. 170 Monarch Lane Miamisburg, Ohio 45342 USA e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Battery pack for Schaffner NSG 435 ESD simulator
Use of another battery pack sounds simple enough, however it may not be. NiCad's can dump a lot of current and are a energy and fire hazard. You should make sure the replacement pack was enclosed in a fire enclosure and had the proper fuse/thermal protection in it. An off brand may not have the proper protection in them. You could build your own, but soldering to the cells hurts their performance and causes a miss match of the cells, which intern will hurt the life of the battery pack. If the cells are not matched, the cells can reverse charge other cells towards the end of each cycle. To get max performance you want to make sure the cells are from the same batch. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Americas, Inc. e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com From: Naftali Shani [mailto:nsh...@catena.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 4:48 PM To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: Battery pack for Schaffner NSG 435 ESD simulator Folks, we have a need for a second battery pack for Schaffner NSG 435 ESD simulator. Other than Schaffner (which is a bit pricey), is there anyone else out there who makes these battery packs? Regards, Naftali Shani, Catena Networks (www.catena.com <http://www.catena.com> ) 307 Legget Drive, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K2K 3C8 613.599.6430/866.2CATENA (X.8277); C 295.7042; F 599.0445 E-mail: nsh...@catena.com <mailto:nsh...@catena.com> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Server Test
Dave, for those of us who have e-mail clients that can read html, or rtf yes it will work. However, there are a significant number of people who will not be able to view what you send. For those on the list who are in countries where they do not have a good telecom infrastructure, it also causes download issues for them (larger files take longer to download). Not everyone on this list has access to high speed modems or DSL/Cable/T1 lines. Some of the people on this list are still lucky to get a 1200 baud connection. HTML and RTF also causes issues with our archive. The preferred method is to post text only (hints: If you do not see our footer at the bottom of an e-mail from the list, then it was not sent in plain text. If you see any color or different fonts, it was not sent in plain text.) We also have a number of people on the list who do a lot of traveling. By keeping the e-mails in plain text it helps them keep their expenses down when they are traveling. The best way to deal with such issues is to post it on the new communities site (which is noted at the bottom of this e-mail) and then send a text message to this list that you have placed it there. That allows you to provide formulas, etc. in a readable format that everyone can access on the website. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Americas, Inc. e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 From: drcuthb...@micron.com [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:33 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Test to see if Microsoft Equation Writer will work thru this email server Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: TC 8 & IEEE-PSES Activities in Boston/2003 EMC Symposium
Art, good question. For the Product Safety Workshop, they would have to register for the one day (Friday). The TC-8 and the IEEE-PSES meetings are open and no registration would be needed. Jim From: Arthur Michael [mailto:amich...@safetylink.com] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 5:52 PM To: Jim Bacher Cc: Emc-Pstc (E-mail) Subject: Re: TC 8 & PSES Activities in Boston/2003 EMC Symposium Hello Jim, Must one be registered ($) for the EMC Symposium to attend the TC-8 Meeting and/or Workshop? Best regards, Art Michael On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Jim Bacher wrote: > > > For those of you going to the 2003 IEEE EMC Symposium in Boston the Week of > August 17 through August 22, below are some items to allow for in your > schedule. We do not know what rooms the events below will be in, so check > for details in your handouts when you get there. > > Also TC-8 (PSTC) & IEEE-PSES will have a booth, which is number 1332. The > booth will be next to the IEEE EMC Society booth. The booth is close to the > Internet Cafe. > > > > IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society Meeting: Tuesday, 5:00 - 6:30 pm. > The meeting is planned to be in the John B. Hynes Convention Center. > > > > TC-8 meeting: > === > Event Name: TC-8, Wednesday, August 20, 7am-8am > Location: Hynes Convention Center > Room Sign: TC-8 Annual Meeting > > > > Product Safety Workshops: Friday 8:00AM till Noon. > > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
TC 8 & PSES Activities in Boston/2003 EMC Symposium
For those of you going to the 2003 IEEE EMC Symposium in Boston the Week of
August 17 through August 22, below are some items to allow for in your
schedule. We do not know what rooms the events below will be in, so check
for details in your handouts when you get there.
Also TC-8 (PSTC) & IEEE-PSES will have a booth, which is number 1332. The
booth will be next to the IEEE EMC Society booth. The booth is close to the
Internet Cafe.
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society Meeting: Tuesday, 5:00 - 6:30 pm.
The meeting is planned to be in the John B. Hynes Convention Center.
TC-8 meeting:
===
Event Name: TC-8, Wednesday, August 20, 7am-8am
Location: Hynes Convention Center
Room Sign: TC-8 Annual Meeting
Product Safety Workshops: Friday 8:00AM till Noon.
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
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RE: Question for CCC
Michael, The CQC issues the CCC certificate. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Americas, Inc. From: Michael Jang [mailto:chj...@onetech.co.kr] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 8:17 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Question for CCC To all interested parties. ^^ One of my client got a CQC certificate for Cell-Phone Charger on May 2003. I have found scope for CCC in CQC website. It mension that charger is in CCC scope. Would you tell me what certificate need for Cell-Phone Charger? CQC? or CCC? I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely, Michael Jang This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: cable maximization - do you or don't you??
Ken, if your attachment is of general value to everyone on the list, you can always put the "attachment" on the following site: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc That way everyone will have access to it. Jim This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: cable maximization - do you or don't you??
Charles, I have used three labs over the last two years. Every single one of them maximized the cables. One of the labs was part of a large company, the other two were smaller privately owned labs. In each of these cases the reports specified that they maximized the cables. An the other hand, 20 years ago I ran in to a lab that minimized the cables instead of maximized the cables. I have on a number of occasions had to point out things to lab personnel, when the lab was missing or doing something incorrectly. Jim This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Plenum rated equipment
Jan, first off this list is for safety (PSTC), EMC and other regulatory issues, so asking such a questions is fine. At least in the USA the air above the ceiling tiles can be an air return plenum for the heating and air-conditioning systems. Anything burning in the air return plenum will generate smoke and fumes, which are then circulated through out a building. If those fumes are toxic, people could be exposed to toxic fumes before they know there is a fire in the building. As a result, the local fire marshals would like the material in the air plenums to either be enclosed in conduit, or the material should not give off toxic fumes when it burns. When you run wires through such an area you want to make sure they are plenum rated to minimize the toxic fumes. I am not sure of the fine details of the plenum ratings, other than when I buy cable to rewire things around here, I have to make sure it is plenum rated if it is going to go into the ceiling. I do not remember every seeing such a rating for equipment that is mounted in that area. However, I did a quick search and found this webpage: http://www.saftronics.com/pdf_fils/library/tn_vfd_p5019.pdf It is for one of their products that they claim can be mounted in a plenum. It does explain the plenum issue and why their product is compliant with a UL Standard UL 1995. You might want to look into UL Standard 1995 for your equipment. Jim From: Jan Heffken [mailto:jheff...@core.com] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 11:11 AM I realize this has nothing to do with EMC but I am hoping someone can guild me in the right direction. I have been asked to investigate what would be required to obtain a "plenum rating" for our equipment (802.11 stuff). If anyone knows where I can find out more informaton as to what "plenum rating" means and the requirements, please let me know. Thanks, Jan Heffken -- CoreComm Webmail. http://home.core.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EMC Friendly PC Platforms.
Don, I use HP Vectra's for desktops test computers and have not had an issue
with them, even after years of abuse.
Jim
Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer
Paxar Americas, Inc.
170 Monarch Lane
Miamisburg, Ohio 45342 USA
From: Don Clayton [mailto:dclay...@nccn.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 3:48 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Cc: dclay...@nccn.net
Subject: EMC Friendly PC Platforms.
Can anyone recommend a QUITEP.C.to be
used as support equipment during EMC testing.
We are looking for a vendor that really meets
the FCC/CE limits with good margins. Both
notebook and desktop to be used. Our testing
will include the 1.6 GHz area near the newer PC
clock frequencies. Please respond direct if you
feel this is not a emc-pstc group topic.
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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RE: Check list for PCB Layout
Krzesaj, another source of information is the IEEE EMC Society. The Society has symposiums around the world that you can attend and hear experts first hand. If you are not able to attend, you can get a CDROM with the presentations on them. See the details about past CDROMs at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org:80/soc/emcs/news9.html The EMC Society web page is at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org:80/soc/emcs/ Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Americas, Inc. 170 Monarch Lane Miamisburg, Ohio 45342 USA e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Repeat and late messages?
Ken, The outgoing IEEE e-mail server has been having problems. The problem is affecting more than just this list and is actively being worked on. I expect the issue to be fixed shortly. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Americas, Inc. 170 Monarch Lane Miamisburg, Ohio 45342 USA e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Out of Office AutoReplies
Cortland, in affect majordomo turns each submitted e-mail into approximately a 1000 separate e-mails. As a result everyone on the list who has a "vacation" notice turned on, will send you a message that they are out. That is why you will get a number of them. By the way if you take a normal day for the emc-pstc list, it means the IEEE handles about 25,000 out going emails for the emc-pstc list. Jim From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 1:07 PM To: Jim Bacher; ieee pstc list Subject: RE: Out of Office AutoReplies Sorry if I gave the impression the ad was on the list; it was merely waiting for me (along with emc-pstc messages) in my Compuserve mail. However, when I reply to an emc-pstc message, shouldn't I receive out-of-office _only_ from the addressee? Cortland This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: CCC mark China
Jan, one of the items that makes it confusing is, that you submit a test reports (EMC and CB) with the unit to be tested. That makes it look like they accept the reports when they do not. I believe that the reports are used to duplicate the tests. As for wireless, it is the MII that does the radio certifications. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Americas, Inc. 170 Monarch Lane Miamisburg, Ohio 45342 USA e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 From: Jan Vercammen [mailto:jan.vercamm...@agfa.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:19 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: CCC mark China Hello, I have some questions concerning the CCC mark in China with respect to EMC and radio spectrum matters. -1- I receive contradicting information about EMC compliance in China. On one hand I have information which asserts that China recognizes EMC laboratories outside China. For Belgium these are CEBEC recognised laboratories. On the other hand I also have information that this is not correct and that products need to be retested by CCC recognised lab's, which are located in the Asian area (China region - I have a list of lab's). What is correct? -2- I have checked the CCC classification. It does not look complete (yet). It could be that our product does not fit the classification list (yet). -3- We have a product tested according to IEC 60601-1-1 (safety) and IEC 60601-1-2 (EMC). Can anyone explain what one should do to obtain the CCC mark in simple terms. -4- The product also includes a short range device (SRD) operating at 13.56MHz. It has been tested according to ETSI 300330 (radio parameters) and ETSI 301 489-3 (radio EMC) and FCC part 15. The same question as in -3-, what one should do to obtain the CCC mark. It does not get easier! Kind regards, Jan Vercammen Agfa-Gevaert NV, Belgium This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
New Petition - URGENT
Due to a request by IEEE, a different form has been substituted on the web site for downloading this morning (Feb. 07, 2003). If you have not done so, please download, sign and forward it to Daniece Carpenter, 9709 Quilberry Drive, Austin, TX 78729, or fax it to 1-512-728-5278 or e-mail daniece_carpen...@dell.com. If you have already signed the petition, we request that you do so again for administrative reasons. For those who are taking the time to help establish the IEEE Product Safety Society (PSS) with this petition, we thank you. IEEE PSS Steering Committee This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Feb 11 / Petition for Formation of a Product Safety Society
As we are having an issue with the new server (https://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc), please use the file's on our normal web site given below. On the new server it should have been visible under the "List" and in the folder General. I will look into the issue with the new server. From: Roman, Dan Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:27 AM Rich, Direct them to http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc. The forms are there and there is no logging in or registering involved. A direct link right to the PDF version is http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/IEEEpetition.pdf. BTW, noticed that "petition" is spelled wrong in the subject line of the message that went out on the listserver. Dan This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Feb 11 / Pettion for Formation of a Product Safety Society within IEEE
Next week, several key players in the field of product safety will be attending the IEEE board series meeting. At this meeting, the President of the IEEE, the Board of Directors, and every department and organization within IEEE will be present. The unit identified as the Technical Activities Board (TAB) is responsible for the oversight of 50 Societies and Councils. Our representatives will attend the TAB caucus along with other operational units as we finalize the creation of the new "IEEE Product Safety Society." If all goes well, the society should be voted into existence no later than June of this year. There is some administrative work left uncompleted. One item is to present a petition from IEEE members, to TAB, indicating an interest in seeing a society created. A petition campaign was started two years ago. We are asking every subscriber to "emc-pstc" that is an IEEE member, to sign this petition whether you did so a long time ago or not. We currently have the required number of petitions but desire more to show that support is out in industry for this new Society. Due to the urgency of this request, a response must occur before Feb. 11, 2003, only a few days away. Signing of this petition does "not" commit you to membership in this new Society. It only provides statistical information regarding the level of interest in this society worldwide. Petition to IEEE TAB For many years, discussion on creating a Product Safety Society within IEEE has been discussed, both through the Internet and the IEEE EMC Society's TC-8 (Electromagnetic Product Safety Technical Committee) and its working group, the Product Safety Technical Committee (PSTC). Due to administrative reasons, benefits as a committee within EMCS is limited in scope. Many in our ranks hold joint membership in both the IEEE and PSTC. Safety is a worldwide concern to both manufacturers and consumers. A shift in the safety paradigm has occurred from adding safety at the back end to incorporating safety in the earliest phases of product concept, design and specification. Therefore, the time is right to establish a Product Safety Society within IEEE. If we successfully complete the formal IEEE Society application process, we can enjoy the following benefits, and more: 1. Operating funds to improve our programs and services. 2. Professional publications (Transactions, newsletters, etc); opportunity to publish papers in a technical forum. 3. The hosting of an international conference or symposium every year. 4. Ability to attract a wider range and variety of speakers from local, national and international IEEE chapters through a distinguished lecturer program. 5. Creation of local product safety chapter that are autonomous. 5. Improved networking opportunities for professional growth. 7. The opportunity to participate in the formation of IEEE and International standards as a recognized committee member, which is a major benefit because we live within these regulations. The first phase of the application process is to collect signatures in support of our petition to create a Product Safety Society. If you are an IEEE member and approve of this action, please download the form off of our website at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org:80/soc/emcs/pstc/ print the page, sign it where indicated, and either mail it to Daniece Carpenter, 9709 Quilberry Drive, Austin, TX 78729, or fax it to 512-728-5278, or email a signed copy to daniece_carpen...@dell.com, as soon as possible, but no later than Feb. 11, 2003. Please add your areas of interest, comments and suggestions if desired. Many thanks for your support! Note: You may also go to https://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc?go=l137008 and fill in your information. Thanks. TC-8 and the IEEE Product Safety Society Steering Committee. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
FW: #18328: Engineer (TEMPEST); Grand Rapids, MI
Forwarding for Pauline, please reply to her. Jim
From: Pauline Rodela [mailto:paul...@midcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 4:06 PM
Subject: #18328: Engineer (TEMPEST); Grand Rapids, MI
Hello,
I obtained your name and email from the IEEE EMC Society Directors listing
at http://www.ieee.org and was wondering if you could be of any assistance
in helping me find a candidate for the below position.
I have a 6 month contract position open in Grand Rapids, MI for an Engineer
to create an emanation analysis for an airborne computer to meet
TEMPEST/1-92 test requirements.
To be considered, the following requirements must be met:
· Secret security clearance (Used within the last 2 years)
· Familiar with National Security Telecommunications and Information
Systems Security Advisory (NSTISSAM) TEMPEST/1-92 test requirements
· Familiar with DoD Instruction 5200.40, DoD Information Technology
Security Certification and Accreditation Process (DITSCAP)
· Must be familiar with Emission Security (EMSEC) countermeasure
implementations
· Will work with the customer to establish Smiths role in the System
Security Authorization Agreement (SSAA) and create a plan to meet
requirements
· Must be able to perform an emanation analysis, which will form a
part of the customer's System Security Authorization Agreement
If you would like to be submitted or would know of anyone else who might be,
please reply with an updated resume and contact Pauline at (714) 579-3000
x259. Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon!
Hope you have a wonderful day! ^_^
Pauline Rodela
Technical Recruiter
MIDCOM CORPORATION
Voice: (714) 579-3000, Ext. 259
Fax: (714) 459-7055
http://www.midcom.com
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RE: EMC-PSTC Email Forum
We have had a couple major glitches with the movement of data. We are working on an alternate solution to the issue. As soon as we have worked out the details we will let you know. Jim From: Andre, Pierre-Marie [mailto:pierre-marie.an...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:24 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EMC-PSTC Email Forum On the http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/index.html I can read : "The EMC-PSTC archives will be moved to another site shortly. The new location will be announced shortly. Make sure you check here often." Is there any target date to make the new location available ? Many thanks for your answer This forum is really useful Pierre-Marie Andre Senior Approval Engineer This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: CISPR 22 A1:2000 / QTY of Complaints
Cortland, these are good point as I have been guilty of working around such
issues. The couple times I did chase them down, I found one was coming from
the Local Osc. in a scanning radio. Another was a keyboard that was
radiating
and did not have a ferrite on it, but in their FCC report it had a ferrite.
I
placed a ferrite on it and the issue went away.
There are a lot of home built computers, built out of catalogs/online that
are
no doubt significantly over the limits. It could be the use of cable TV has
lessened the impact on the everyday consumer, while continuing to impact us
poor hams. I do wonder as there are a lot of people who know that I know
something about radios and computers, but no one has ask what to do about
an interference.
Jim
> It's easier to avoid the problem than to generate a complaint (especially
> when official response will be less than helpful bureaucratic
> boiler-plate). I find this even among Amateur Radio operators, and it
> cannot be less prevalent among consumers generally. People adjust their
> operating practices or avoid use of offending equipment to work around it;
> we do not complain. Naturally, an agency receiving no complaints will
> assume there is no problem.
---
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---
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Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
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FW: EMC E&H close field probes / Mindcruiser
Forwarding for Thomas Krzesaj, please copy Thomas when you respond.
--
EMC E&H close field probes Message ID: 538546
Hi,
I would like to get more informations about close field probes and the
measurement methods.
What close field value can we consider as critical ?
How to interpret the result from the probe ?
We actually bought Agilent 11941A & 11940a probes and FischerCC E&H close
field probes.
My idea is to get an EMC-scanner like the DetectusAB one
(http://www.detectus.se/) to get more repeatibility. Can I get some advices?
Thanks,
Thomas Krzesaj
Genius Instituto de Tecnología
Av. Açaí, 875 Bloco E
69075-904 Distrito Industrial
Manaus - Amazonas
Brasil
Tel: +55 92 614-6578 / Fax: +55 92 613-3144
mailto:tkrze...@genius.org.br
http://www.thomask.fr.st
http://www.genius.org.br
Posted on Nov 20,2002 at 07:15am
---
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RE: CISPR 22 A1:2000 / QTY of Complaints
Has anyone heard what the level of complaints that government agencies have been getting from devices such as ITE? I seem to remember Don Bush telling me he had discussed this with a regulatory body and found the answer was zero or near zero. Which Don pointed out meant the current levels and testing methods were sufficient or maybe too tight. Jim > Can anyone tell us the driving reason behind this regulation? Was > it to increase repeatability at test sites? Was it to reduce the number of > interference complaints from ITE installations? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: UL and multiple brand names
Dave, John is correct in you do need to discuss it with UL. You only need to send one product to UL to test. There will be some additional cost, but not much. The amount will depend on how you go about it and what your and the customers needs are. We have done it several different ways and all are easy. For one customer we just added their name and model as alternate construction. For another we did it as a multiple listing. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Corp. e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
DOC - Paper Reduction
We have a number of products that meet the same standards. Currently we issue a DOC for each product. As each of the DOCs are identical except for the model number, is there any reason why we could not list all the models on one DOC? Granted as standards change there will be times when new products will meet new standards and we will need a new DOC for the newer products, as they would be tested to different standards than the older products. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Corp. e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
EMC-PSTC / TC-8 At The 2002 IEEE EMC Symposium
Greetings All, This e-mail contains important information about the upcoming
IEEE EMC Symposium, TC-8, EMC-PSTC, PSTC and Product Safety events.
First off the exciting news is that we (EMC-PSTC / PSC) will have a booth at
the upcoming 2002 IEEE EMC Symposium. It will be booth 131 next to the NAVY
booth. In the booth will be the presentation given to the IEEE TAB in
February of this year by the PSTC, concerning the desire to create a IEEE
Product Safety Society. We will have information about this list server and
about Mindcruiser. By IEEE policy, we are to have someone in the booth at
all times. So I would like to challenge all of you (especially the PSTC
chapters) to spend a few minutes in the booth so that we meet the IEEE
requirements.
I have a second challenge for all of you and that is to promote this list
server to others who work with product regulatory issues. This is for two
reasons. 1. To make sure everyone there, leaves knowing about the emc-pstc
2. Make sure those who could not go, learn about the emc-pstc. For example
all of you at one time or another talk to regulatory engineers at other
companies. Make sure they know about this list server. If you know someone
who's e-mail can not handle the e-mail that the list server sends out (yes I
know of at least one) they can always use http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com.
The schedule of the TC-8 Meeting, PSTC Meeting, formal dinner for our
speakers, and workshop, are as follows:
1) IEEE EMCS TC-8: Thursday August 22, 2002. 7:30am - 8:30am. PSTC Meeting
immediately following.
2) Formal dinner for the speakers: Thursday August 22, 2002. evening.
(Details will be posted in the booth on Thursday.)
3) Workshop: Product Safety FR-AM-WS-13, Friday August 23, 2002. 8:30am -
12:30pm. Room 212AB.
Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer
Paxar Corp.
e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com or j.bac...@ieee.org
voice: 1-937-865-2020
fax: 1-937-865-2048
---
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RE: Scott/primer
If you happen to take this on, please consider presenting this at some of the PSTC meetings around the country/world or at least at the Safety Sessions at the 2003 IEEE EMC Symposium. As for my two cents, the concern is always cost of the certifications. The real question is "How much does it save?" Jim --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Looking for an EMC/Compliance Engineering Position
The IEEE EMC Society has a web page with job postings on it at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/jobs.html Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Corp. e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Product Safety & the IEEE 2002 Symposium on EMC
I am posting the following for Dan Modi ( dan.m...@alconlabs.com ). Please contact him direct. Do not forget to mark the 2002 IEEE EMC Symposium on your calander to attend and by all means do not miss the Product Safety Workshop (or the other TC-8 Sessions). Rich Nute is willing to provide consulting to anyone who would like to present at the Product Safety Sessions in Dan's notes below. For more detailed information on the 2002 IEEE EMC Symposium check out their site at: http://www.2002-ieee-emc.org/ >- > >I would like to encourage my emc-pstc product safety colleagues to consider >presenting at the Product Safety Workshop at IEEE EMC Symposium in >Minneapolis. > >There has been a tremendous demand for knowledge on Product Safety topics >(New Standards info, Test Methods, Case-Histories, etc.). This would be an >excellent venue to share your knowledge and gain personal recognition. > >We need to improve the level of both individual professionalism and the >product safety profession in general. One way to help do this is by >presenting at symposia such as the IEEE EMC Symposium. > >If you have a topic that you have presented internally within your company >or within a local group, it may be worth considering to present at the >symposium. If you need assistance to expand on a topic - other members may >be able to offer consultation. >Power-Point Presentations must be submitted within 8 weeks. >--- > >Thanks >Dan >dan.m...@alconlabs.com Replies to this message may be posted in a public forum. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: EMC-PSTC on a web site
Rich and I have been quietly working on the Mindcruiser site. It has bugs which we are still working out and has prevented us from making it a live site. However, if you have ever posted an e-mail to the majordomo list it has automatically created an account for you and put the message into the archive. We have a lot of account clean up to do. Mindcruiser will send you your password if you ask it to. It is case sensitive, so when it asks your account name and e-mail address you have to get it right. If you need help getting access to your account let me know and I will assist ( be patient as this is an after hours volunteer work ). You can browse it as a guest for the moment. The e-mail archives are on the site and are active, in that if you respond to a forum in the Mindcruiser archive, it will go to everyone on the majordomo emc-pstc list. If you send an e-mail to emc-pstc on majordomo, it also goes in the archive on Mindcruiser (it is the second e-mail address on the IEEE server, so it gets there fast). It is a bi-directional link between the servers. Note: We are still looking for e-mail archives prior to 1996, if you have them let Rich or I know you have them. We will be looking for a few people to start using Mindcruiser rather than majordomo in the near future (April?). Some of the error messages you are seeing at the moment are do to a bug in the software and will be fixed shortly. I expect the next release of software to fix most of the issues we have at the moment and make it possible to go live with the site. If you are one who just monitors the messages, Mindcruiser will allow you to get a daily or weekly summary rather than the constant inflow of e-mail.. Note: because of the archiving of the messages, it is important to always use text and strip out the footer when you respond to a message through majordomo. That will help keep the database cleaner. The IEEE is working on populating the infopieces. If you run into any bugs while on the site please report them to Mindcruiser as well as Rich and myself. Also let us know of any suggestions for the site. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Corp. Formerly Monarch Marking Systems, Inc. e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com or j.bac...@ieee.org voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Use of PCB Traces as Fuse and Voltage suppressor
Long time ago we found that the traces worked well as fuses when the batteries were fully charged. However, when the batteries were mostly discharged, the PC Board traces did not work well as fuses. At lower battery charge levels, the traces became very hot and ignited the PC Board rather than opening the traces up. I therefore would recommend against using PC Board traces as fuses. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar Corp. e-mail: jim.bac...@paxar.com or j.bac...@ieee.org voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 -Original Message- From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:53 AM To: Chris Maxwell; ieee pstc list Subject: RE: Use of PCB Traces as Fuse and Voltage suppressor When do you need a fuse? Level II is the only time you are allowed to lose functionality, and the requirement for THAT is, it can't catch fire or explode. I've seen "trace fuses" tried. The problem comes after the trace blows. You are at the mercy of your board shop, and if you use a number of them, results might not be all that repeatable. AS i said earlier, I've had a board catch fire in my hand (though not as a result of stress, but a solder splash). It is instructive. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
THE 2003 IEEE INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON ELECTROMAGNETIC COMPATIB ILITY (EMC), Tel Aviv, ISRAEL, May 11-16, 2003
Forwarding for Nicky. -Original Message- From: Nicky Jowett Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:06 AM Subject: THE 2003 IEEE INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON ELECTROMAGNETIC COMPATIB ILITY (EMC), Tel Aviv, ISRAEL, May 11-16, 2003 THE 2003 IEEE INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON ELECTROMAGNETIC COMPATIBILITY (EMC) David Intercontinental Hotel, Tel Aviv, ISRAEL, May 11-16, 2003 Dear Colleagues and Fellow EMC Engineers, Shalom from Israel, We are delighted to announce the 2003 IEEE International Symposium on EMC to be held in Tel-Aviv, Israel on May 11-16, 2003. The Symposium will provide a platform for the presentation and discussion of new developments in the field of Electromagnetic Compatibility and related topics. Paper sessions will include topics on the Electromagnetic Environmental Effects, EMC Education and Management, EMC Design, from circuit to System, Spectrum Engineering, High Power Microwave Effects and Electromagnetic Threats, Signal Integrity and High Speed Considerations, Product Safety, Radiation Hazards and Biological Effects of EMF, and many, many other exciting topics. Workshops, tutorials, "Birds of a Feather" panels and special invited sessions will be organized on stimulating topics. PAPER SUBMISSION Prospective authors are invited to submit by July 15, 2002, an abstract and preliminary manuscripts in English, either electronically, via e-mail or by regular mail. The official language is English. For detailed instructions on file submission please visit the Symposium's official web site at http://www.ortra.com/emc2003/ TECHNICAL EXHIBITION The Symposium will be accompanied by a technical exhibition on EMC. Prospective exhibitors are invited to order a booking kit from the Symposium Secretariat for exhibition space, constructed stands, showcases, mural display areas and advertisement space in conference publications. We expect exciting new product launches and exhibitor events during the Symposium. Do not miss this unique opportunity! For additional information or questions, please contact the symposium secretariat: ORTRA Ltd. 1 Nirim Street, P.O. Box 9352 61092 Tel-Aviv, Israel Tel:+972-3-638 Fax:+972-3-6384455 E-mail: emc2...@ortra.co.il OR VISIT OUR WEB SITE AT: Web site: http://www.ortra.com/emc2003 Looking forward to welcoming you in Israel, Best Regards Elya B. Joffe, Symposium Chairman --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Reminder of TC8 / PSTC activities at the IEEE EMC Symposium Next Week
Attached is the PSTC/TC-8 agenda for the Montreal IEEE EMC Symposium. For emc-pstc subscribers, at each of these meetings I'll discuss our plans for a new web-based e-community that not only include all of the current listserver functions, but a number of new web-based features. We'll have hands-on demos at the Internet Cafe. Please attend the meetings and stop by the Internet Cafe for your personal hands-on access to our new e-community. Andre Abramenko of Mindcruiser, provider of the software, will be there, too, to get your feedback. I look forward to meeting you in Montreal. Jim Paxar Corp. FYI... Reply Separator Subject:TC-8 activities at 2001 IEEE EMC Symposium Author: murlin.e.ma...@us.ul.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 7/11/01 9:48 AM Announcement/Reminder The Product Safety Technical Committee (TC-8) of the IEEE EMC Society will have the following activities at the EMC Symposium in Montreal ( http://www.2001emcmtl.org/home.html ) over the week of August 13-17. Wednesday, August 15 7-8:30am - TC-8 Annual Meeting - Check Program for location Thursday, August 16 6pm, Speakers' Dinner (self-hosted) - Location to be determined Friday, August 17 8:30am-12:30pm, Product Safety Workshop - Check Program for location We hope you all can attend these activities. As you may know, we are in the process of trying to become an IEEE Product Safety Society. You are all invited to become a part of this ground-breaking development for product safety professionals. We need your leadership and support! In addition to the opportunity to meet the Product Safety Workshop speakers, the Speakers' Dinner is intended to be an open discussion forum for our evolution into a full fledged, IEEE Society. This presents limitless opportunities for professional development of those involved full time or part time with product safety. Your ideas and enthusiastic support are essential to this coming to fruition. For more information, check our website: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ In order to assure a large-enough room, please let me know (murl...@ix.netcom.com) if you can make it to the Speakers' Dinner. We will put announcements out about the dinner at the conference. Murlin Marks Past TC-8 Chairman Product Safety Workshop Co-Chair Disclaimer: The above is my personal opinion, and not necessarily that of my employer. - Greetings, Here's some activities that the Product Safety group is doing at the IEEE EMC Symposium in Montreal. 1. Product Safety technical presentation by Ron Duffy and Richard Georgerian - Wednesday, August 15, 2001 at 2:50pm. Title of presentation: "Product Safety and the use of EMC techniques to evaluate the 30 Amp Ground Continuity Test" 2. Product Safety demonstration on the 30 Amp Ground Continuity Test by Ron Duffy and Richard Georgerian - Thursday, August 16, 2001, morning session. 3. For the Product Safety Workshop on Friday, August 17, 2001, 9am-12pm., Ron Duffy and Richard Georgerian will present the 30 Amp Continuity Test as a workshop for more in-depth discussions. Richard --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Fwd: Your account at MindCruiser KES has been terminated
Some of you may have received the message below and you were no doubt at a loss as to why your "KES" account was terminated. Or more importantly, why you even had a "MindCruiser KES" account. So I thought I would fill in some details for you. As Oscar mentioned in a recently e-mail, we have been quietly working on a "new site" for the emc-pstc list. In the process, temporary accounts, etc. have been created. And in the case of the message below, there was a little clean up being done and the message got out to a number of list members. We apologize for the interruption and any confusion it might have caused. Please ignore any other e-mails that happen to slip though during our testing, the new site will be worth it. As for the details and the features of the new site, we intend on showing them at the 2001 EMC Symposium in Montreal. Stay tuned for more information. Jim ** IMPORTANT NOTICE: Your user account at MindCruiser KES has been terminated by an administrator. You will no longer be able to log-in to the system, or use any of the system's services. Reason given: (None) If you have any questions or comments regarding the termination of your user account, please contact your administrator. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Re:EMC 2001 - practical or technical subjects ?
Gunter, there will be several sessions on safety and there will also be a meeting for the TC-8 committee that runs this emc-pstc list server. To see some of the material presented at last years safety session, check out this site: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/TechSpk/ground97.pdf http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/tech-spk.htm Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar - Monarch e-mail: jim_bac...@monarch.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 Reply Separator Subject:EMC 2001 - practical or technical subjects ? Author: gunter_j_ma...@embraco.com.br List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 6/27/01 8:16 AM List I would like to have some comments from the list about the 2001 International Symposium on Electromagnetic Compatibility. I have never gone to this symposium. My question is about the subjects covered. Are the subjects more technical (from institutes and Universities) or practical (from the industry) ? If it is a technical symposium, could you indicate a practical one ? Thanks Günter J. Maass EMBRACO S.A. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Re:Batteries ...
Doug, depending on the types of batteries, the RBRC can assist you with this issue. Check their site at: http://www.rbrc.com/ Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar - Monarch e-mail: jim_bac...@monarch.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 Reply Separator Subject:Batteries ... Author: "Doug McKean" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 6/14/01 12:55 PM Maybe sort of off topic. What's the disposal procedures for batteries such as the A, AA, AAA, C, D, lithiums ... ? Are you supposed to just throw them into the trash? What if a customer a customer calls in to ask such a question and let's say they're in the US, Canada, or Europe? What are you supposed to say or what agency or website? - Doug --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Re:RE: EN 55024 Annex A.1
Chris, Try using a PI filter made out of two caps and a resistor (or at least a resistor and then the cap). This combination will work at low RF freqs. and is relatively inexpensive. For higher RF frequencies try changing the resistor to a ferrite. Depending on the frequency you are having problems with, you might have to change the value of the capacitors. I am sure you already know to keep the capacitor leads short, as those leads are inductive and are also antennas. Sometimes the wires from the back panel to the board can pick up the RF, in which case you can twist the signal wire with a ground wire (or use shielded wire). If your product is in a shielded case put the capacitors on the connectors that are on the back panel, rather than on the board. In some cases I have seen people use what ever parts that happened to be handy when designing audio circuits. The catch is the transistors they were using were RF transistors. They did an excellent job of amplifying the unwanted RF as well as the audio. In really sever cases, Murata makes some ferrite PI filters that I have used. You can also get some absorbing material to put on leads as well. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar - Monarch e-mail: jim_bac...@monarch.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 Reply Separator Subject:RE: EN 55024 Annex A.1 Author: "Colgan; Chris" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 5/25/01 12:44 PM David Oh dear, I was going to post a similar help message. Same problem except it is an audio amplifier and the test is radiated immunity. I can't possibly fathom out the demodulation process so I have to stop the RF getting in to the product. It doesn't help having the input and output grounds isolated from the chassis (for so called sonic reasons). I have made a significant improvement by a liberal sprinkling of 100n caps from signal ground points to chassis and secure EMC bonding of the chassis components. Hopefully a few more 100ns should clear the problem completely. >From this experience I guess you too might have a grounding problem. Try the magic wet finger and a few caps. Regards Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com * http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Re:Repeat Postings
We have asked the IEEE to look into it.
Jim
Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer
Paxar - Monarch
e-mail: jim_bac...@monarch.com
voice: 1-937-865-2020
fax: 1-937-865-2048
Reply Separator
Subject:Repeat Postings
Author: geor...@lexmark.com
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: 3/13/01 3:26 PM
Has anyone noticed that postings to this listserver repeat several days later?
For example, Chris Colgan's question about switching NRTLs first posted about
3/6/01 appeared again this afternoon?
George
---
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Re:Print on demand labels - UL/CSA approved
Chris we have a printer and labels that should meet your needs. It is our model 9850 with our TuffMark labels. The TuffMark labels are UL Recognized. We use them to label our own products. You can contact me directly for more information. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar - Monarch www.monarch.com e-mail: jim_bac...@monarch.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 Reply Separator Subject:Print on demand labels - UL/CSA approved Author: "Chris Wells" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 3/10/01 11:48 AM As a continuation of my last email - "save me from label hell" I need to do some investigations into better "print on demand" labeling sollutions. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Fwd:61000-3-2 Class D
forwarding for paul_c...@hkstc.com Reply Separator Subject:61000-3-2 Class D Author: "Paul Chan" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 3/2/01 8:57 AM Dear Group, I have read from here about PC, TV are definitely Class D. Can anyone suggest the how this discision made? Best Regards Paul Chan HKSTC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Re:Shielded Room
forwarding for a_hars...@telkom.net Reply Separator Subject:Shielded Room Author: "Acon Harsono" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 2/15/01 6:46 PM Hello All, I am studying the Shielded Room for Conducted RFI testing. Can anybody tell me the technical requirements or standards for the shielded room ? Thank you, Acon Harsono SUCOFINDO Laboratory - Indonesia Tlp.: +62 21 88321176 ext. 1862 Fax.: +62 21 88321166 email: a_hars...@telkom.net --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Announcement : EMC-PSTC Website
It is my pleasure to announce that Dan Roman, is now our new web author (webmster) for the emc-pstc website. Dan has updated it to the IEEE standards for their webpages. If you have any technical articles, thoughts, ideas, or anything else concerning the PSTC website, please e-mail Dan at : dan.ro...@dialogic.com For those who would like to see the revised site, but do not have the website bookmarked in your favorite browser, here is the website : http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ Please note that the new page has the ability for you to subscribe to the emc-pstc discussion e-mail list. There is a link on the home page that will take you to the subscribe page, or you can go to the following address: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/sub-domo.html On the subscribe page are the instructions on how to unsubscribe from the emc-pstc e-mail list. Note: As we have over 850 people receiving this e-mail, so no doubt the revised website will have a lot of traffic today, so please be patient if it is a little slower than normal. Jim Jim Bacher, Senior Engineer Paxar - Monarch e-mail: jim_bac...@monarch.com voice: 1-937-865-2020 fax: 1-937-865-2048 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:WVTA
forrwarding for paul_c...@hkstc.com Reply Separator Subject:WVTA Author: "Mr. Paul Chan" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 2/13/01 12:14 PM Dear Group, I have been asked about the EU 'WVTA' Whole Vehicle Type Approval. Have you got any information about this approval, such as web-site. Thanks Paul Chan HKSTC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:RE: IEC and EN 61000-6-2
forwarding for niels.houga...@barconet.com
Reply Separator
Subject:RE: IEC and EN 61000-6-2
Author: "Hougaard; Niels"
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: 2/9/01 5:56 PM
Hi Benoît,
the EN 61000-6-2:1999 has the text ("Endorsement notice"): "The text of the
International Standard IEC 61000-6-2:1999 was approved by CENELEC as a
European Standard without any modification."
So they must be identical except for the reference to basic standards where
the EN standard refers to the EN versions whereas the IEC standard refers to
the IEC versions.
For Radiated Susceptibility the basic standard in EN 61000-6-2 is EN
61000-4-3 which is a modified version of IEC 61000-4-3.
Hope this can be of some help,
Regards,
Niels Hougaard
BarcoNet
> -Original Message-
> From: Benoit Nadeau [SMTP:bnad...@matrox.com]
> Sent: 9. februar 2001 16:37
> To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject: IEC and EN 61000-6-2
>
>
> Bonjour de Montréal,
>
> I just bought the new generic Immunity Standard for industrial environment
>
> but, unfortunately, I ordered the IEC version of it, not the EN version.
>
> Obviously, an IEC standard would not reference an ENV standard and I know
> that EN500082-2 referenced ENV50204.
>
> Is it still the case for EN61000-6-2 ? Did they change the level?
>
> Your help will be appreciated,
>
> Regards,
>
>
> --
> Benoît Nadeau, ing. M.ing (P.eng., M.eng.)
> Conformity Group Manager
> Matrox
> 1055, boul. St-Regis
> Dorval (Québec)
> Canada H9P 2T4
> Tel: (514) 822-6000 (x2475)
> Fax: (514) 822-6275
> <http://www.matrox.com>
>
> Chairman
> 2001 IEEE EMC International Symposium on
> Electromagnetic Compatibility
> Montreal August 13 to 17, 2001
> <http://www.2001emcmtl.org>
> --
>
>
---
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Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:RE: T3
forwarding for gsemin...@nuera.com Reply Separator Subject:RE: T3 Author: "Seminsky; George" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 2/8/01 7:54 AM For whatever it is worth, I believe that T3 interfaces do not have to undergo NEBS GR-1089 Lightning and AC Power Fault testing whereas T1 interfaces do. The reason being that T3 interfaces are not connected to outside lines and therefore are not exposed to environmental nasties. George Seminsky Compliance Engineering Nuera Communications. Inc. 10445 Pacific Center Court San Diego, CA 92121 Ph 858 625 9220 X4410 Fx 858 625 2422 www.nuera.com -Original Message- From: David Gelfand [mailto:gelf...@memotec.com] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:27 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: T3 Has anyone had any experience with safety approvals to UL 1950 of T3 interfaces over coaxial cable - are power line cross tests required? Thanks in advance, David. David Gelfand Regulatory Approvals Memotec Communications Inc. Montreal Canada --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
