RE: Haefely surge tester?
Hi Brent! We also have a PC6-288.1 Surge Tester (great machine!), and have had similar service issues with Hipotronics. I may be able to help. Give me a call. Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company Acme WA (360) 595-2785 j...@acmetesting.com Brent DeWitt wrote: I have a Haefely PC6-288.1 surge tester who's serial interface decided to quit working after sending it to Hipotronics for calibration. Hipotronics has been of no help after the person who calibrated it quit the company, so I'm looking for alternatives: - Is there anyone in the US other than Hiptronics that can repair this old beast? - Does anyone out there have a service manual/schematic for the unit (Haefely won't sell them to me). Thanks, Brent G. DeWitt Datex-Ohmeda - Now a part of GE Medical Systems Email: brent.dew...@med.ge.com Phone: 303-673-1488 Fax: 303-665-9231 Visit us on the internet at www.gemedical.com
RE: EN 61000-3-2:2000
John: The question about whether the intent of the writers (of EN 61000-3-2:2000) was to require a double "repeatability" test for each EUT tested, or whether the intent was simply to demonstrate a "process qualification" has been touched on in this forum for over two years. It is now November 2003. The "presumption of conformity" on the old 1995 harmonic emissions standard ends on January 1, 2004. It is time to finally clarify this for laboratories and manufacturers. I will communicate with you later this week "off-line", because some of my examples of problem EUT's (and suggestions for clarifications) may breach confidentiality standards if shared with this forum. However, as a general question, if as you say, "..the committee has not received any request for an official interpretation", then where exactly can we go (as a laboratory) to request such an interpretation? A LITERAL interpretation of the "English" language text in the 2000 standard means that many of our customers will have a big, big problem on January first, 2004. I am requesting your personal involvement to assist in resolving this "repeatability" question. Thanks for your help! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Senior EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company 2002 Valley Highway Acme, WA 98220 work: (360) 595-2785 work: j...@acmetesting.com home: (360) 599-1095 home: jde...@nas.com From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 12:12 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EN 61000-3-2:2000 I read in !emc-pstc that Jon Francis wrote (in <5bc8a2628bc2eb4081ca71b2d6717d3a05e...@voltech-uk.voltech.co.uk>) about 'EN 61000-3-2:2000' on Fri, 7 Nov 2003: >Are there any official clarifications available concerning the >repeatability test? No, because the committee has not received any request for an official interpretation. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Design of low cost ESD gun.
Mr. Leung: If you want a REALLY low-cost ESD gun, you might consider a simple piezoelectric Barbeque Lighter. I wrote a short construction article about this back in 1997 (Test and Measurement World Magazine). BBQ Lighters are pretty gross, but they give a reasonably repeatable 0.5 cm spark. Use a fine hacksaw to expose the tip. Solder a wire to the metal case, and connect it to ground (to provide a return path for electrons). Uncontrolled risetime, polarity, and amplitude, of course. I have found (in our Laboratory) that this "Air Discharge" BBQ Gun will catch 80% of "valid" ESD failures. In other words, if your EUT "passes" the BBQ Lighter test, the chances are fairly good that it will pass a $15,000 Haefely-Trench ESD Generator. Given a choice, I'd recommend buying a proper Haefely-Trench Generator (absolutely the best gun on the market, in my opinion). Otherwise, visit your local market and get a BBQ Lighter. Have fun! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Senior EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA j...@acmetesting.com p.s. Make certain to empty the Butane from the BBQ Lighter before fooling around with it! Go outside (in fresh air) and hold the trigger down. Or, drill a tiny hole in the tank...outside! - Original Message - From: lfresea...@aol.com To: ywle...@vtc.edu.hk ; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 1:14 PM Subject: Re: Design of low cost ESD gun. In a message dated 5/8/2003 8:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time, ywle...@vtc.edu.hk writes: Can anyone provide some information about I want to make a low cost ESD gun for ESD test, the peak voltage about 4 or 8 k volt ( if it can induced + and - poloarity will be more better), the waveform just little similar to the specification, thanks. Mike makes a good point. Since Schaffner has introduced a new ESD gun, you may be able to find used older models very reasonably priced as folks look to trade up. Suggest you contact one of the ESD gun manufacturers to see if they have used equipment for sale. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
Re: current-sensing transducer photos
David: Thank you for the Committee Draft Version of the new ESD Standard. The committee is to be commended for producing such a thoroughly researched document that aims at improving test reproducibility of such a complex event as electrostatic discharge. While I am personally fascinated with the "scientific" aspects of ESD, I must say that the CDV rather took my breath away ... from the standpoint of ESD Current Target/Conical Adapter Line mechanical complexity ... to the cost implications for the EMC Laboratories and their clients. 4 GHz Current Targets, Network Analyzers, Oscilloscopes, and Electrostatic Voltmeters are far from trivial expenditures for any Laboratory. I guess what I am missing is the underlying justification of need to change >from the current 1 GHz approach. I don't mean to beat this subject into a dead horse. I am not qualified to do that (even if I wanted to) either from experience or education. I would only make the following comments from my perceptions based on 7 years with an EMC Lab, and 18 years building, testing, and evaluating Silicon for a couple of semiconductor manufacturers: 1. In the several years of performing (or directly supervising) ESD Compliance testing at the lab, I have very seldom seen cases of correlation problems THAT WERE NOT FOUND TO BE THE RESULT OF ONE OR THE OTHER PARTIES FAILING TO FOLLOW THE EXISTING ESD STANDARD. 2. Our lab has often also been involved in testing multiple samples of various EUT models to 20 kV and beyond (for design verification, not Compliance). Very seldom was there any difficulty correlating with the manufacturer. 3. If good engineering practice is used in designing PCB layouts, wiring layouts, grounding, etc., even complex mixed-analog/digital EUTs can easily meet the 8 kV Air/4 kV Contact ESD requirements by a good margin. It's not that difficult to achieve. And that is a good thing, because the "real world" of carpeted environments and "floating" users often generates voltages substantially above 10 kilovolts. 4. In short, an EMC Lab is in the Compliance business, not the Science bus iness. The "real world" rationale of most EMC Standards is, by and large, clearly understood by me. I guess I am somehow missing said rationale for the 4 GHz CDV of the ESD Standard. Sincerely, Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: "Pommerenke, David" To: "Jim Ericson" ; "drcuthbert" Cc: "Dan Kinney (A)" Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 1:44 PM Subject: RE: current-sensing transducer photos Dear Jim, If one builds a target now, I suggest to build the new version of the target, as the new version is defined up to 4 GHz, while the old version will not work beyond 1 GHz. The new version is the the latest CDV of the standard which I attach. David Pommerenke From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com] Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 6:23 PM To: drcuthbert Cc: Pommerenke, David; Dan Kinney (A) Subject: current-sensing transducer photos Hi Dave: Photos attached include: 001 - front side of target showing the center contact disc where you place the sharp contact point of the esd gun. 002 - rear side of target showing the "N" connector. 003 - closeup of the front side with the contact disc unscrewed. If you zoom a little, you can see some of the radially-spaced 51 Ohm resistors on the right side. Regards, Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com note: jde...@nas.com is my home address. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD test standard - present CDV - justification for changes
Dear David: Thank you for concise and reasoned response to my questions. The IEC Committee Draft on ESD (CDV) is a weighty document, and deserves many more hours of study and thought that I have been able to give it at this point. I agree that the trend toward faster processor speeds will continue. That certainly will elevate the ESD-compliance challenge. But, we're already dealing with 2++ GHz processor speeds in our lab, and that is by no means the main ESD issue. The most difficult change over the past five years has been the trend toward low-voltage chips (Vdd <3 Volts). Designers used to have VOLTS of noise margin. Now they have tens of millivolts. Yet, we often observe ESD problems on new products that are the result of the same old "5 Volt" layout, grounding, and bypass techniques being applied. And, yes, I would much appreciate a copy of the IEEE Transaction of Failure Levels associated with ESD. You can send it to my Acme email address below. Thanks very much for your insights! Sincerely, Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: "Pommerenke, David" To: "Jim Ericson" ; "emcpost" Cc: "Pommerenke, David" Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:04 AM Subject: ESD test standard - present CDV - justification for changes Dear Jim, Thanks for taking the time to read the standard. Let me expand on the justification of the changes. Table of Content 1) New current target 2) On the correlation problems with ESD testing 3) Specific answers to your points (marked by ### in your email) David Pommerenke University Missouri Rolla 1) New current target = If you accept that a larger calibration bandwidth is needed (see my point (2)) then there is a need for a new target. The present target is only useful up to 1 GHz. Above 1 GHz targets that are build the "same" way differ a lot. The present target also has a high input impedance in the RF range (it reaches kOhm), so that the current is disturbed relative to a large ground plane. Now a target also needs to be calibrated, as one needs to determine if it fulfills its specification. This requires a either a network analyzer or a spectrum analyzer with tracking or a signal generator and a power meter. or a TDR in TDT arrangement. The good news is that this is only relevant for the manufacturer of the target, NOT FOR THE USER of the target. Now the construction of the new target is quite simple. I have made about 10 in the last years. There are also other constructions possible that are more simple. Note the target information is information, i.e., everyone can make their own target, as long as it measures correctly the construction does not matter. 2) On the correlation problems with ESD testing. Every ESD test is a combination of many physical tests. Disruption or disturbance can be caused by: a) dielectric breakdown b) Current (ohmic loss -> thermal) c) Induction -> voltage -> oxid breakdown d) Induction -> current -> thermal e) Induction -> disturbance f) Ohmic voltage drop -> disturbance g) Inductive voltage drop -> disturbance And there are many more. For each of them the question: - Is an ESD test reproducible? Will have a different answer. For example, the dielectric breakdown is strongly related to the voltage, and the voltage of ESD generators is well controlled. Now modern ICs can react to pulses of about 50ps width (just look at your PC). Now, induction is a differentiation process, e.g., it is a high-pass filter. The high frequency components of the current and the transient fields will dominate the circuit response (in this case: mostly disturbance, not destruction). If you compare the high frequency components of different ESD generator currents and fields, you will see differences larger than 20dB. As a consequence, failure levels for fast ICs (disturbance) will vary as much as 1:5 if ONLY the ESD generator is changed. This has been observed in many Industry applications and tests and is the main driving force for improving the standard. We are in the process of publishing results of such correlation under well controlled conditions and the analysis of the reasons (correlation: ESD generator parameters vs. disturbance failure levels). The paper is in the review-process of the IEEE Transactions on EMC. I will not post it here while it is in review, but I can email a pre-print version to interested individuals. From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 12:02 AM To: Pommerenke, David; emcpost Subject: Re: current-sensing transducer photos David: Thank you for the Committee Draft Version of the new ESD Standard. The committee is to be commended for producing such a thoroughly researched d
Re: ESD Gun targets
Dave:
I would be delighted to take a target (on loan) and do my best to evaluate
it ... within the limitations of my instrumentation.
Thanks for the offer.
Jim Ericson
Acme Testing Company
j...@acmetesting.com
- Original Message -
From: "drcuthbert"
To: "'Jim Ericson'" ; "emcpost"
Cc: "drcuthbert"
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 7:45 AM
Subject: ESD Gun targets
> Jim,
>
> the Pelligrini Target spec in EN61000-4-2 is quite a challenge to meet.
The 1 dB insertion loss delta from DC to 4 GHz to be exact. The simulation
of my proposed PCB design shows that it can meet the spec and I have the
equipment to verify this.
>
> I will build a few targets. Perhaps a few of you would like a target to
use and to provide feedback. Who wants a target? Step right up and get your
red hot Pelligrini targets!
>
>Dave Cuthbert
>Micron Technology
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com]
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 5:09 PM
> To: emcpost
> Cc: drcuthbert
> Subject: Re: ESD Gun "verification"
>
>
> Dave:
>
> Yes. The current-sensing transducer that I built ("Pelligrini Target") is
> per the Annex B drawings in EN 61000-4-2:1995 + A1:1998 +A2:2001. It has
> five paralleled 240 Ohm resistors arranged radially around the
oscilloscope
> side to give 48 Ohms. On the ESD Gun side are twenty-five radially spaced
> 50 Ohm resistors to give 2 Ohms. Transconductance is 1 Amp/1 Volt into 50
> Ohms.
>
> The present Standard requires a minimum 1 GHz bandwidth oscilloscope.
>
> I use a Pasternak Model PE7002-30 (DC to 2 GHz) 1 Watt Attenuator between
> the Pelligrini Target and the scope (voltage ratio of 32). The
oscilloscope
> is a Tektronix 7104 with 7B10 time base, and a 7A26 dual-trace amplifier.
>
> I'll email a couple of photos to you (offline), and copy Mr. Pommerenke
and
> Mr. Kinney.
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ericson
> Acme Testing Company
> j...@acmetesting.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "drcuthbert"
> To: "'Jim Ericson'"
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:07 AM
> Subject: RE: ESD Gun "verification"
>
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > I simulated this. I am assuming the circuit is a 2 ohm resistor to GND.
If
> so, the series inductance must be <0.1 nH for the 2 ohm resistor. Does
this
> sound right? I can do this with 25 paralleled 49.9 ohm resistors arranged
> radially around the input (discharge) point.
> >
> >Dave Cuthbert
> >Micron Technology
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:50 PM
> > To: emcpost
> > Subject: ESD Gun "verification"
> >
> >
> >
> > John:
> >
> > I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do
> "verification"
> > in between the expensive annual "calibrations". I first explored the
> option
> > of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were
> > around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself.
> > I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy
> mechanical
> > drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good
> > cross-section in the Standard!
> >
> > Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something
> > understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts
> > fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with
> the
> > machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300.
> > Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science
> Fair
> > time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the
> target
> > was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass
> wall
> > panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and
> > this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz
> > analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured
> > within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a
> "calibration"
> > (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very
> > close.
> >
> > Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you
want
> > fairly accurate and repeatable results):
> >
> > 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target.
> > 2.Use a Faraday Cage.
> > 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun
ESD gun verification
John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do "verification" in between the expensive annual "calibrations". I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a "calibration" (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the "shape" of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild variability between verifications. 4.Even a 500 MHz oscilloscope would probably be OK for "verification". Just make certain that all setup parameters (including Ground Strap placement) are EXACTLY the same each time. That way, if the GUN happens to change, you'll at least know what to do next. Give me a call if you'd like a photo. Good luck! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA. 888-226-3837 j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: "John Harrington" To: Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: ESD gun verification > > Hello All > > Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the > performance of an ESD gun. > > Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the > back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the > workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build > it for me... > > I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could > find said shelf). > > All help appreciated > > John Harrington > EMC Technical Manager > F-Squared Laboratories > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
ESD Gun "verification"
John: I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do "verification" in between the expensive annual "calibrations". I first explored the option of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself. I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy mechanical drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good cross-section in the Standard! Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with the machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300. Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science Fair time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the target was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass wall panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a "calibration" (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very close. Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want fairly accurate and repeatable results): 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target. 2.Use a Faraday Cage. 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap is to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always take a photograph of the setup, including the "shape" of the Grounding Strap and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild variability between verifications. 4.Even a 500 MHz oscilloscope would probably be OK for "verification". Just make certain that all setup parameters (including Ground Strap placement) are EXACTLY the same each time. That way, if the GUN happens to change, you'll at least know what to do next. Give me a call if you'd like a photo. Good luck! Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA. 888-226-3837 j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: "John Harrington" To: Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: ESD gun verification > > Hello All > > Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify the > performance of an ESD gun. > > Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in the > back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have the > workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to build > it for me... > > I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I could > find said shelf). > > All help appreciated > > John Harrington > EMC Technical Manager > F-Squared Laboratories > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
ESD troubles
Hi Ravinder! Really need more details to comment in detail. Consider the following, though: 1.Contact Discharge to the Horizontal Coupling Plane produces a large "bloom" of (mainly H-Field) radiation underneath the EUT. Could be on the order of 200 Volts/metre, depending on the spacing. Is the chassis open on the bottom? Can it be shielded? 2.Is the ASIC Integrated Circuit properly bypassed (very close) to its VDD pin(s)? 3.Are there any ribbon cables adjacent to the Horizontal Coupling Plane? Can they be re-routed? These are the first things I would check. Regards, Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company Acme, WA j...@acmetesting.com > Hi ESD Gurus, > I am having problem with a controller card which is failing contact ESD > discharge at Negative 5 kV and below, but passes Positive contact discharge > unto 8 kV, and air discharge of either polarity up to 15 kV. The card is > mounted on an open metal chassis, and has DC input of 5V and 12V coming > from a power supply. The ground of the card is directly tied to the > chassis at several places. I am not discharging into the controller > chassis, but l place the unit on my ESD table and discharge into the > horizontal coupling plane, which results in the failure. > > Through my testing, I have isolated the problem to the main ASIC on the > card. An earlier version of the same card passes the test, whose ASIC is > built from the same CMOS process, but has a different processor core. It > is difficult to determine which part of the ASIC logic is latching up. I > have tried adding low value decoupling capacitors to power supply, but it > has no effect on the problem. > > Any suggestions on what I should I try next. > > Regards, Ravinder > Server PCB and Flex Development > Hitachi Global Storage Technologies This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD Gun "verification"
Dave:
Yes. The current-sensing transducer that I built ("Pelligrini Target") is
per the Annex B drawings in EN 61000-4-2:1995 + A1:1998 +A2:2001. It has
five paralleled 240 Ohm resistors arranged radially around the oscilloscope
side to give 48 Ohms. On the ESD Gun side are twenty-five radially spaced
50 Ohm resistors to give 2 Ohms. Transconductance is 1 Amp/1 Volt into 50
Ohms.
The present Standard requires a minimum 1 GHz bandwidth oscilloscope.
I use a Pasternak Model PE7002-30 (DC to 2 GHz) 1 Watt Attenuator between
the Pelligrini Target and the scope (voltage ratio of 32). The oscilloscope
is a Tektronix 7104 with 7B10 time base, and a 7A26 dual-trace amplifier.
I'll email a couple of photos to you (offline), and copy Mr. Pommerenke and
Mr. Kinney.
Regards,
Jim Ericson
Acme Testing Company
j...@acmetesting.com
- Original Message -
From: "drcuthbert"
To: "'Jim Ericson'"
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: ESD Gun "verification"
> Jim,
>
> I simulated this. I am assuming the circuit is a 2 ohm resistor to GND. If
so, the series inductance must be <0.1 nH for the 2 ohm resistor. Does this
sound right? I can do this with 25 paralleled 49.9 ohm resistors arranged
radially around the input (discharge) point.
>
>Dave Cuthbert
>Micron Technology
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Ericson [mailto:jde...@nas.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:50 PM
> To: emcpost
> Subject: ESD Gun "verification"
>
>
>
> John:
>
> I faced the same problem about six years ago. I needed to do
"verification"
> in between the expensive annual "calibrations". I first explored the
option
> of buying a Pelligrini Target. As I recall, the quotes I received were
> around $2000. That seemed outrageous, so I decided to build one myself.
> I'll bet it took me at least 3 days to make sense of those goofy
mechanical
> drawings in 61000-4-2. If only they had included a photograph or good
> cross-section in the Standard!
>
> Anyway, I finally figured it out, translated the drawings into something
> understandable by a U.S. machine shop, and got all the brass parts
> fabricated locally. It took several in-process consulting sessions with
the
> machinist, but I finally got all the brass parts done for around $300.
> Then, I purchased a $25 silver electroplating kit. It was like Science
Fair
> time in my workshop! Some hours of painstaking soldering later, the
target
> was completed. I mounted it over a specially-drilled hole in the brass
wall
> panel of our anechoic chamber (you need a Faraday Cage of some sort, and
> this seemed the easiest). I did a quick check using our Tektronix 1 GHz
> analog oscilloscope ... and the risetimes and overall waveforms measured
> within spec! Then, I sent the target to Haefely-Trench for a
"calibration"
> (against their standard Pelligrini target). The results were very, very
> close.
>
> Having performed many verifications at this point, my advice (if you want
> fairly accurate and repeatable results):
>
> 1.Make (or buy) something resembling the 61000-4-2 target.
> 2.Use a Faraday Cage.
> 3.Be aware how important the POSITION of the ESD Gun Grounding Strap
is
> to these measurements ... especially to risetime measurements. I always
> take a photograph of the setup, including the "shape" of the Grounding
Strap
> and where it is attached. If you don't do this, you'll get pretty wild
> variability between verifications.
> 4.Even a 500 MHz oscilloscope would probably be OK for "verification".
> Just make certain that all setup parameters (including Ground Strap
> placement) are EXACTLY the same each time. That way, if the GUN happens
to
> change, you'll at least know what to do next.
>
> Give me a call if you'd like a photo.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Jim Ericson
> Quality System Manager/Sr. EMC Engineer
> Acme Testing Company
> Acme, WA.
> 888-226-3837
> j...@acmetesting.com
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Harrington"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:45 AM
> Subject: ESD gun verification
>
>
> >
> > Hello All
> >
> > Does any one have a quick and dirty (and hopefully cheap) way to verify
> the
> > performance of an ESD gun.
> >
> > Please, no one suggest building the current sensing system described in
> the
> > back of IEC 61000-4-2. I don't understand the drawings let alone have
the
> > workshop or materials to consider it. Although, I may pay someone to
> build
> > it for me...
> >
> > I am desperate enough to consider buying something off the shelf (if I
Re: Calibration Lab Accredited to 17025 for Temperature and humidity measurements
Kevin: I would recommend that you discuss this with your accreditation agency up-front. In our case, we are allowed to do such an "in-house" calibration providing that: (a) the certificate meets ALL of the 17025 calibration report requirements; (b) we calculate [and report on the cal cert] the measurement uncertainty associated with the calibration; (c) we have a WRITTEN in-house calibration procedure for the instrument; and; (d) that we have DOCUMENTED training (or experience) records demonstrating the competency of the individual performing the calibration. Give me a call if you have questions. Regards, Jim Ericson Quality System Manager/Senior EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com From: "Kevin Harris" To: "EMC-PSTC (E-mail)" Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:50 AM Subject: Calibration Lab Accredited to 17025 for Temperature and humidity measurements > > Hello Group, > > We are in the process of seeking formal accreditation of our in house lab. > One of our difficulties is the requirement to get a calibration of our > environmental chamber (temperature and humidity) from a calibrating service > that is 17025 accredited to make those measurements at a customer location. > (i.e. our chamber is not moveable). We have been unable to find a company in > Canada with those credentials. Does anybody know of one? Alternatively does > anybody know of one in the Eastern US (the closer to Toronto the better :)) > ? > > Thanks > > Regards, > > > Kevin Harris > Approvals Manager > Digital Security Controls > 3301 Langstaff Road > Concord, Ontario > CANADA > L4K 4L2 > > Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 > Fax +1 905 760 3020 > > Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: E.S. of plastic xstr case
Dear John: Well, maybe not the ten millionth, but at least the umpteenth! We are an A2LA Accredited Lab in Washington State ( in the quiet country midway between Seattle and Vancouver, British Columbia). Wyle indeed works here, and is quite proficient at EMI mitigation. During coffee breaks I can see him from my office window -- running and frolicking with Eagles, Cattle, and yes, occasionally other Coyotes. Cheers, Jim Ericson > > I read in !emc-pstc that Jim Ericson wrote (in > <003c01c2e1fb$239b0cc0$b4663fce@pavilion>) about 'E.S. of plastic xstr > case' on Mon, 3 Mar 2003: > >Jim Ericson > >Acme Testing Company > >Acme, Washington > >j...@acmetesting.com > > Do you employ Wyle E Coyote or is he an independent test-house? (;-) > > Am I the ten millionth person who asked? > -- > Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: RADIATED IMMUNITY - Some Actual Measurements of FS
Dave: I agree with your comments re: testing at 10 V/m, and then falling back to 3 V/m if there is a problem. This is a good way for a client to get "almost free" margin-testing data. I recommend it often to our clients. If you test to 3 V/m, you don't have a clue as to what would happen at 3.1 V/m. I had to chuckle at your 40 Watt fluorescent tube story! Back in the olden days (as Chief Engineer of a 5000 Watt AM Broadcast station in California, I would often make antenna tuning adjustments with a screwdriver in one hand, and a 4-foot fluorescent bulb in the other. This is REAL RF Engineering! And yes, I work 160 meters too. Regards, Jim Ericson (KG6EK) Acme Testing Company Acme, Washington j...@acmetesting.com From: "drcuthbert" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 7:05 AM Subject: RE: RADIATED IMMUNITY - Some Actual Measurements of FS > > Why not blast the DUT with 10V/m at all frequencies? If it misbehaves in the 3V/m bands then 3V/m could be tried. If you want some high E-field try my house (or another ham's house). I often run fields to the FCC safety limit in my house. When operating 160 meters I can light a 40 watt fluorescent tube by holding it in my hand at the operating position. I believe the peak limit at 1.8 MHz is 500 V/m. The equipment in my house is not affected (well just a little) with the application of a few ferrites and filters. The field in the adjacent neighbors homes is in the tens of volts/m. No complaints yet. Just remember, in words of N6SU "if you can't see it it can't hurt you". > > Dave Cuthbert WX7G > Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: E.S. of plastic xstr case
Brian: Transistor and Integrated Circuit "plastic" encapsulants usually are some recipe of Epoxy Novolac. I'd suggest doing a Google search for [Epoxy Novolac +electrical characteristics]. Or, do an end run on a manufacturer. You might try calling Philips Semiconductor on Arques Avenue in Sunnyvale, California. Ask for Bill Hobdy. He's an epoxy expert there. I worked with him for many years, so use my name if it helps get through the maze. Good luck! Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company Acme, Washington j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: boconn...@t-yuden.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 11:40 AM Subject: E.S. of plastic xstr case Good People of PSTC: I have noted that there is a CCA decision stating that the "plastic enclosure of a semiconductor cab be considered as basic insulation..." But I cannot find manufacturers' specs listing the dielectric strength of the plastic case (e.g., TO-0220). Am I overlooking an obvious data source? They must design this in, because all of the FETs that I have tested do ok up to approx 2500Vdc. thanks much. R/S, Brian
Death of the listserver
Dear Richard and Jim [co-administrators]: The EMC Laboratory that I work for (Acme Testing Company in Acme, Washington) has the quietest open-field Emissions Sites (OATS) within a 1000 mile radius. We planned it that way. The village of Acme has a total population of under 100 people. My home in Glacier, WA (five miles from the Canadian border) has a population of 90. Cable and telephone companies do not run underground cable for 90 people. Cable or broadband Internet is a wetdream that will never happen here. It's 56k ... or nothing. I find this daily interchange of EMC-related topics to be very important in my work. I will miss it if the participation dwindles. Regards, Jim Ericson Sr. EMC Engineer/ Quality System Manager Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Magnetic Testing
Bud, I don't have a copy of the IATA Packing Instruction here at the lab, but from what you described, it may be similar to the "Compass Safe Distance" test which is called out in the Maritime Navigation and Communication EMC Standard EN 60945:1997. This magnetic test determines "the distances above which an equipment will not cause an unacceptable deviation of the ship's standard and steering compasses". The EUT is tested against a compass or magnetometer after magnetization in a specified DC field with a superimposed AC stabilizing field. A baroque-sounding test indeed, but it so happens that a four-foot high by two-foot diameter double-wound solenoid of solid 12-ga copper wire used in the Compass Safe test resides just to the left of my desk here in the lab (only 'cause it's a handy place to store it!). I'd be happy to discuss this test, if it seems relevant. My phone at work is: (360) 595-2785. Jim Ericson Senior EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: Pittman, Bud To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:44 AM Subject: Magnetic Testing Although this is not an EMC standard it is related. My lab has been asked to test our products to the magnetic standards of IATA Packing Instruction 902. This test determines the ability of a device to change a compass reading. I have the regulations and know how to do the test, but do not do it routinely. Products that fail this test must be labeled and additional shipping charges are imposed. I know that one of our products fails and we are labeling it. Fines for non-compliance are substantial, yet I am having a hard time finding anyone who knows about or complies with this standard. My questions are: Does anyone else perform this test, or have it performed on their products? What kind of results are you getting depending upon product size, shape, metal content? Are there exceptions or conditions that would exclude product families from this regulation. Any help or discussion would be appreciated. Bud Pittman Compliance Engineer LSI Logic Storage Systems, Inc. - Wichita KS bud.pitt...@lsil.com Tel 316-636-8718 Fax 316-636-8321 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Scope of EN 61000-4-8 (Power Frequency Magnetic Testing)
>From experience, what type of electronic equipment other than Visual Display Units has been found particularly susceptible to power frequency and pulsed magnetic fields? Thank you, Chet Summers Pelco Chet, EN 61000-4-8 applies if the equipment under test contains devices that are potentially sensitive to magnetic fields. CRTs and other electron beam devices are obvious candidates. Not so obvious (without reviewing the equipment design) are Hall Effect devices. The test is relatively simple, and doesn't take long to perform. A good approach is, when in doubt ... just do it. Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company Acme, WA --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Pro Audio and ground lifting
There are a couple of very different "real life" issues here. If you have volunteered to be in charge of sound for a choir concert at your local church, and it's fifteen minutes to showtime, and you've got hum in the PA system, you will doubtless pull every rabbit out of every hat you can think of. One rabbit may be floating a shield on the end of a cable. Forget EMC. Forget safety. The show goes on. But, short of fear-driven panic patches, it is almost appropriate to float shields on cables. Disconnect a shield on one end of a cable and you have transformed it into an efficient monopole antenna. It will be susceptible to inbound RF, and it will transmit RF very nicely in the same manner. A bad idea. At the lab, we work with several Pro-Audio clients who manufacture high-performance equipment. Shield floating is just not done. It is not necessary ... if the overall product design is well thought out. And yes, I do understand the reality of fighting hum problems in a crisis situation. In a previous life, I was Chief Engineer for several commercial radio and TV broadcast outlets. In situations (particularly setting up remote broadcasts with unknown equipment), anything goes. But we shouldn't carry that behavior back to the design teams. My comments may or may not reflect the opinion of my employer. Regards, Jim Ericson Senior EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company Acme, WA. work e-mail: j...@acmetesting.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Fw: ESD Generator confidence test
- Original Message - From: Jim Ericson To: ; Cc: Harry Hodes ; James Ericson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 2:46 PM Subject: Re: ESD Generator confidence test > Hello Vic! > > Verification of the 61000-4-2 ESD waveform requires some careful > engineering, no matter which approach you take. Basically, you need to > verify (among other things) the front-edge risetime, which is at (or > slightly below) 1 nanosecond. The harmonic content of the RF produced by an > ESD pulse is largely dependent on the pulse risetime. > > To seriously verify this risetime, you need precise fixturing (i.e., the > Pelligrini Target described in the 61000-4-2 Standard), plus a 1 GHz > oscilloscope, a Faraday Cage, and plenty of attention to setup conditions > ... including physical placement of the Generator ground strap. I don't > believe there is a "simple" way to do it. > > To verify our Generators (Haefely-Trench models), I built the Pelligrini > Target described in the Standard. It is quite an exercise in precision > machining of brass, learning how to electroplate Silver, etc. If you don't > have access to a lathe, vertical milling machine, drill press, and > chemicals, you can doubtless find a local machinist that will tackle this > thing. I built our target for approximately $200 US. A commercial target > costs upwards of $2000. Plus calibration. We paid Haefely to run an A-B > comparison calibration with their standard target, and the results were very > close. Now, we use that data (and our target) to verify our ESD Generators > between "formal" annual calibrations by the manufacturer. > > Give me a call if you would like any details on our target. 1-888-226-3837. > > Regards, > > Jim Ericson > Senior EMC Engineer > Acme Testing Company > j...@acmetesting.com > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:00 AM > Subject: ESD Generator confidence test > > > > > > The ESD standard IEC 61000-4-2 gives details for the manufacture of a > > current target, used for verifying the ESD waveform. > > > > I appreciate this could be used as a confidence check before administering > > the test, but does anyone have another approach that they would be willing > > to share. > > > > Many thanks > > > > Vic Gibling > > > > EMC Engineer > > > > Raytheon Systems Limited > > > > > > --- > > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > > majord...@ieee.org > > with the single line: > > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > > Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ > > Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" > > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: ESD Generator confidence test
Hello Vic! Verification of the 61000-4-2 ESD waveform requires some careful engineering, no matter which approach you take. Basically, you need to verify (among other things) the front-edge risetime, which is at (or slightly below) 1 nanosecond. The harmonic content of the RF produced by an ESD pulse is largely dependent on the pulse risetime. To seriously verify this risetime, you need precise fixturing (i.e., the Pelligrini Target described in the 61000-4-2 Standard), plus a 1 GHz oscilloscope, a Faraday Cage, and plenty of attention to setup conditions ... including physical placement of the Generator ground strap. I don't believe there is a "simple" way to do it. To verify our Generators (Haefely-Trench models), I built the Pelligrini Target described in the Standard. It is quite an exercise in precision machining of brass, learning how to electroplate Silver, etc. If you don't have access to a lathe, vertical milling machine, drill press, and chemicals, you can doubtless find a local machinist that will tackle this thing. I built our target for approximately $200 US. A commercial target costs upwards of $2000. Plus calibration. We paid Haefely to run an A-B comparison calibration with their standard target, and the results were very close. Now, we use that data (and our target) to verify our ESD Generators between "formal" annual calibrations by the manufacturer. Give me a call if you would like any details on our target. 1-888-226-3837. Regards, Jim Ericson Senior EMC Engineer Acme Testing Company j...@acmetesting.com - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:00 AM Subject: ESD Generator confidence test > > The ESD standard IEC 61000-4-2 gives details for the manufacture of a > current target, used for verifying the ESD waveform. > > I appreciate this could be used as a confidence check before administering > the test, but does anyone have another approach that they would be willing > to share. > > Many thanks > > Vic Gibling > > EMC Engineer > > Raytheon Systems Limited > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ > Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
EN 61000-4-5 Surge on 24VAC equipment
"I see your point, but as I understand it, only if the power pack is made available with the apparatus to the end user, i.e. a system. This is up to the manufacturer to define." 1. Many 24 VAC products are shipped with a separate 230/24VAC transformer unit that plugs into the mains. In this case, Surge testing is performed on the 230 Volt side of the transformer. 2. Occasionally, products with a 24 VAC input are marketed without a transformer. Example: small surveillance cameras. Several of these cameras are often installed in a factory or office, and the 24 VAC is daisy-chained from a single 230/24 VAC transformer. In this situation the EMC Laboratory will often recommend that the camera manufacturer provide a "typical" transformer that might be chosen by the end user. Surge testing is then performed on the 230 Volt side of this "representative" transformer. And of course, the Test Report will clearly state the rationale for this arrangement. Jim Ericson Acme Testing Company --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
A14 of EN 61000-3-2
Can someone tell me the release status of the recently-journaled Amendment 14 to EN 61000-3-2? (i.e., the *final*, not just prA14). Thanks! Jim Ericson j...@acmetesting.com EMC Engineer Acme Testing Co. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: EN 61000-4-8
Richard, our approach has been to size the loop to the EUT. We presently have 1 meter and 2 meter (square) loops that are multi-turn conductors inside 3/4-inch thickwall white PVC. Our 3 meter multi-turn loop uses external supports, and is designed with a multi-conductor plug and socket so that it can be easily manipulated and set up in each of the required test planes. Coil factors are a good rule of thumb for doing the initial loop design (i.e., square, round, number of turns etc.), but we use a small 6-inch Solar calibration loop and spectrum analyzer combination to develop actual "current versus H-field" calibration curves for each of our large test loops. Give me a call if you'd like to discuss details. Regards, Jim Ericson Acme Testing Co. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:42 AM Subject: EN 61000-4-8 > > We will have to apply the magnetic field immunity test to some of our > Generic and ITE products in order to comply with the new revisions of the > standards. One of the tests is not clear to us. Consider a product whose > width and depth are such that it fits correctly inside the standard 1 m > loop, but also assume that the equipment height exceeds 0.5 m. On one hand, > the standard tends to indicate that a two or more loops are required to > ensure that the entire height of the equipment is immersed during a single > test. But on the other hand, there is mention of moving a single loop over > the height of the equipment. > > Do I understand correctly, that tall (> 0.5 m) equipment may be tested using > a single 1 m loop that is moved along the height of the equipment? > > Richard Woods > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
230V/50Hz power
Here are a couple of basic queries for the group...concerning 230 Volt/50 Hz AC power configurations for EMC testing of products destined for Europe: 1. Other than the 950 Safety standard, are there any EMC Immunity or Emissions standards that specifically address power sources and power configurations to be applied to inputs of EUTs during EMC tests? 2. Is it reasonable to assume (unless there are EUT/regional-specific *special* considerations), that the power source should be configured to measure 230V Line to Line and 115V from each Line to PE? Comments will be appreciated! Jim Ericson Acme Testing Co. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: OATS Turntable Canopy
Comment on the use of PVC: I would recommend an A/B characterization over the frequency range you'll be testing. In my past life doing ionospheric experiments at low frequencies...sub 500 kHz...I discovered that black PVC is anything but transparent to RF. White PVC was useable. Worth checking. Jim Ericson Acme Testing Co. - Original Message - From: Lichtenstein, Ross To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: RE: OATS Turntable Canopy > > Richard, > > I think that if I were trying to make an inexpensive environmental > cover for an OATS turn-table, I would consider using PVC plastic > pipe and fittings, similar to what you may have seen is used to > fabricate patio furniture. I think you can find all the fittings > necessary to build a simple framework, and then just cover whatever > portion of it you want with black plastic builders film, or those > inexpensive blue plastic tarps found in many discount stores (you > may need to cut out the metal grommets on the tarps and replace them > with any of several available plastic types. > > Good luck, > > Ross > > -Original Message- > From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 11:53 AM > To: wo...@sensormatic.com > Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: Re: OATS Turntable Canopy > > > > Richard, > > Last year at the beach, I bought one of those cheap (er, inexpensive) > gazebo-like > canopies. It came with lots of metal tubes which had to be put together to > form > the > upper canopy support and the legs. It was about 8' x 8' and 6' tall. > > However, if one replaced the metal tubes with wooden dowel material, > something > like this would provide a cheap shelter. The corners usually come with a > means > to > peg into the ground, given the winds at a typical beach. For this you might > need to > find some plastic or other non-conductive tent pegs. > > Just a thought. > > George > > > > > woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com on 12/22/2000 11:00:19 AM > > Please respond to woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com > > To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com > cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) > Subject: OATS Turntable Canopy > > > > I want to erect a simple, low cost removable canopy over our turntable at > our OATS to protect the EUT from light rain and our Florida sun. Is anyone > aware of an off-the-shelf option? Has anyone constructed a simple canopy and > would like to share their design and/or experience (good and bad)? > > Richard Woods > > > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
A14 of EN 61000-3-2
I understand the nuts and bolts of EN 61000-3-2 Amendment 14 (which is due to be OJ'd on 1 January), and I have a copy of the order. Where can I get a copy of the actual A14 text? Thanks! Jim Ericson j...@acmetesting.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
