RE: fan question
Marko and group, There was an interesting liability case in the UK in the late eighties involving a certain brand and model of washer/drier. The situation was that the machine had an aluminum heater box with the drying element and a fan to blow air over it. The heater box was provided with an over-temperature trip as a safety feature. The problem was that in some cases the over-temperature trip was failing. The result of failure of this part was not apparent to the user and the machine continued to apparently function normally with this fault. This fault only became apparent when the absence of the safety function provided by this device was highlighted by another fault (fan failure). There were several fires reported (including one fatality) and the case went to court where the manufacturer was found to be at fault. The appliance had been approved by an approvals agency and met the required standard. I guess this illustrates the difference between compliance and safety. Safety = Freedom from unacceptable risk Compliance = Acting in accordance with a request or command It was interesting to note that it was argued, that had an adequate risk based assessment have been conducted on the appliance then such a hazard would have been identified. Regards, Duncan. Duncan Hobbs, Senior Compliance Engineer Xyratex Product Compliance Lab. Havant, Hants, U.K. tel: 02392 496444 fax: 02392 496014 duncan_ho...@xyratex.com From: marko.radoji...@nokia.com [mailto:marko.radoji...@nokia.com] Sent: 18 September 2003 15:53 To: peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: fan question Back at a former employer, we were fond of saying that there was a difference between "Safe" and "Compliant". These scenarios are perfect illustrations. If there is a dormant fault in your equipment which could mask a safety hazard, that is "Compliant" but not "Safe". I personally would try and reduce the exposure to a minimum using whatever means possible and then document this situation to executive management for their express approval. Consider yourself on the witness stand with a lawyer asking you if you were aware of the situation which caused their client to have come to harm. What would you say? How would you feel? Cheers, Marko From: ext Peter L. Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 6:39 AM To: PSTC Subject: RE: fan question Amen. The test house might attempt to invoke the forward to a standard, if it contains text that provides them an out, where there is clear engineering rationale and a very specific risk of a hazard being evaluated not anticipated by the standard. Even so, the sand beneath their feet would be shifting. For instance (not a directly related one), during previous test house employment, I stopped an evaluation and refused a certification for a coffee percolator, because it barely warmed water. OTOH, if a double fault scenario seems plausible, you may wish to perform the testing for your own edification, irrespective of the content of the safety standard. I might be inclined to do such a thing on equipment intended for installation in a hazardous location. This is more a matter of personal conscience and corporate cya. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Homologation Services Sanmina-SCI Corp. San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com > From: John Woodgate > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 2:57 AM > > I read in !emc-pstc that Gibling, Vic: > >A view of an international test house considers > two simultaneous faults > >if one is 'invisible' to an operator. The > example given was an > >overtemperature control - status unknown by > operator - and a blocked > >fan. > > This is 'gold-plating' the standard, if two-fault > conditions are not > covered in it, and any test-house that rejects a > product on that basis > should be boycotted and reported to the > regulatory authorities, unless > they restrict their activity to *advising* on > such a situation. > -- > Regards, John Woodgate This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IE
RE: Thermocouple glue
Ned (and group),
We have have found that Loctite 382 adhesive and Loctite 7455 activator
is quite useful for attaching thermocouples. We buy the two together in
a 'Tak pak' as its called by Loctite, which is a kit of the adhesive and
activator which is primarily intended for wire tacking and component
mounting.
I believe that this is a Cyanoacrylate adhesive. When used with the
activator it sets very quickly - ideal when you are attaching lots of
thermocouples.
Hope this helps..
Regards,
Duncan.
Duncan Hobbs, Senior Compliance Engineer
Xyratex Product Compliance Lab.
Havant, Hants, U.K.
tel: 02392 496444
fax: 02392 496014
duncan_ho...@xyratex.com
From: Ned Devine [mailto:ndev...@entela.com]
Sent: 16 April 2003 14:11
To: IEEE EMC/Product Safety (IEEE, EMC/Product Safety)
Subject: Thermocouple glue
Hi,
In the past I have used Henkel Sicomet 77 to adhere thermocouples. I
just tried to reorder some and was told it has been discontinued.
Does anyone have a recommendation on a replacement?
Thanks
Ned Devine
Entela, Inc.
3033 Madison Ave. SE
Grand Rapids, MI 49548
Phone: 616 248 9671
Fax: 616 574 9752
e-mail: ndev...@entela.com
www.entela.com
Entela, Inc. A Certified Woman Owned Business
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RE: Certification Databases
Ron (and group), I have some more certification directory websites to add to the list. Semko www.etlsemko.com/smark.html ETL www.etlsemko.com/etllistedmark.html SEV www.sev-certificates.com ENEChttp://www.enec.com/dbase/view/searchArt.php3?base=enec Fimko http://www.fimko.com/certifiedproducts.html BSI http://www.bsi-global.com/Partners/search.html I still can't find a listings directory for Nemko. Does it exist? If anyone has a web address for it I would be most grateful. Hope you find these helpful. Regards, Duncan. Duncan Hobbs, Senior Compliance Engineer Xyratex Product Compliance Lab. Havant, Hants, U.K. tel: 02392 496444 fax: 02392 496014 duncan_ho...@xyratex.com From: Ron Pickard [mailto:rpick...@hypercom.com] Sent: 15 April 2003 21:22 To: rpick...@hypercom.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Certification Databases To all, Thanks to the responses so far. But, I already have access to the UL, CSA, VDE and TUV NA and TUV PS databases as I alluded to in my original post. I was looking for any other safety agency web-based databases (e.g., NEMKO, SEMKO, BSI, FIMKO, SEV, BSI, SII, BIS, etc). Does anyone know of any? Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com rpick...@hypercom.com Sent by: To: jwise...@printronix.com owner-emc-pstc@majordocc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Certification Databases 04/15/2003 12:18 PM Please respond to RPickard Hi Josh, Thanks for the web addresses. Actually, I already have those web addresses that you provided. And to be informative, here are the VDE and TUV PS (now TUV America?) database addresses: VDE: http://pzi.vde.com/en/ TUV Product Service (web address has changed): http://www.tuvamerica.com/tools/clientlists/certs.cfm Anyone have any others? Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com JWiseman@printron ix.com To: rpick...@hypercom.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: 04/15/2003 11:54 Subject: RE: Certification Databases AM Ron, I don't have VDE or TUV Product Services but here are UL, CSA and TUV Rheinland. If you go to the main website, there is a link for certified products. TUV has the dotCOM service that list the companies, but the company can also sign up and have manuals, DoC's and other useful items placed on their website as well. http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/index.htm http://directories.csa-international.org/ http://www.tuvdotcom.com/pi/web/index.xml?LanguageChanged=en-us Regards, Josh From: Ron Pickard [mailto:rpick...@hypercom.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:10 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Certification Databases Hello to all, Does anyone know if there are any web-based certification databases from any safety agency such as the ones from UL, CSA, VDE and TUV? If so, what are their web addresses? I'm certain that this information would be very useful to all. I look forward to your replies. Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This mess
Multi - Lingual Markings For Industrial Equipment in the U.S.
Group, Does anyone know if there are any state or federal regulations that may require bilingual markings for certain regions in the USA? I am thinking of certain states where Spanish is a widely used language. The equipment is industrial test equipment, of the sort that would be installed in a factory (i.e. not consumer equipment) Many thanks in advance, Duncan. Duncan Hobbs, Senior Compliance Engineer Xyratex Product Compliance Lab. Havant, Hants, U.K. 02392 496444 duncan_ho...@xyratex.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
FW: Antenna Mast Automation
Duncan Hobbs, Senior Compliance Engineer
Xyratex Product Compliance Lab.
Havant, Hants, U.K.
02392 496444
duncan_ho...@xyratex.com
From: Duncan Hobbs
Sent: 17 December 2002 10:17
To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'
Subject: Antenna Mast Automation
Group,
We are trying to find a company that manufactures plastic
pneumatic cylinders for automating our antenna mast polarity. It seems
quite a difficult part to find as it is quite a specialist application.
We have tried a few companies that manufacture whole systems but none
seem too keen on just selling us a cylinder. Naturally it must be made
completely of plastic and have no metal parts.
Does anyone know any companies that may be able to supply such a part
and if so how we may contact them.
Many thanks in advance
Duncan.
Duncan Hobbs, Senior Compliance Engineer
Xyratex Product Compliance Lab.
Havant, Hants, U.K.
02392 496444
duncan_ho...@uk.xyratex.com
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PCI Power Specifications.
Group,
I am trying to find some information on the supply power
specifications for PCI expansion cards but am finding it hard to get
information without purchasing the whole of the PCI bus standard.
Does anyone know where I may find this information in the public domain?
Or can anyone who has a copy of the spec enlighten me?
I believe that the power requirements are in chapter 4.4.2.2. "Power
Consumption" and state the following:
- The maximum power allowed for any board is 25 watts, and represents
the total power drawn from all power rails provided at the connector
(+5V, +3.3V, +VI/O, +12V, -12V, +3.3Vaux). The expansion board may
optionally draw all this power from either the +5V or +3.3V rail.
Is this all the spec has to say on power or is there more detail on load
balancing between supply rails etc?
Many thanks in advance,
Duncan.
Duncan Hobbs, Senior Compliance Engineer
Xyratex Product Compliance Lab.
Havant, Hants, U.K.
02392 496444
duncan_ho...@uk.xyratex.com
---
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IEC and EN61010 Test Report Forms
Group, I am looking to get hold of some CB style test report forms for EN61010-1:2001 and IEC61010-1:2001. Last time I purchased test report forms, I purchased them on the internet from Fimko, but I can't seem to find the web page. Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where I may be able to obtain these forms? Many thanks in advance, Duncan. Duncan Hobbs, Senior Compliance Engineer Xyratex Product Compliance Lab. Havant, Hants, U.K. 02392 496444 duncan_ho...@uk.xyratex.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Electrochemical potentials
Group, Has anyone ever used a combination of metals not listed in annex J of EN60950 for a protective earthing connection? If so can anyone suggest a decent source of information on electrochemical potentials for various materials. The particular materials in question are tin plated copper on zinc passivated steel. Can anyone advise on the electrochemical potential of such a connection? Many thanks in advance, Duncan. -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- -- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re:RE: Re[2]: Thermal Testing
Group, I believe this is what we paid for our Agilent datalogger: 34970A Data aquisition/switch unit with Benchlink software £949 ($1518) 34901A 20 Channel mux module£290 ($465) so a complete 60 channel thermocouple thermometer costs £1819 ($2910)! Yes it does sound too good to be true but we have one and it is an excellent piece of kit. As for whether there is anything negative to say, I can think of only one thing. The connections are quite annoying (small screw terminals in the module not plug in thermocouple connectors) .Then again you can imagine how big the equipment would have to be to accomodate 60 thermocouple sockets, even the miniature type. Best thing is to get one on demo from Agilent. This is what we did and we were very impressed. Other manufacturers equipment we had in on demo did not come anywhere near the price or number of channels on the Agilent. Regards, Duncan. Reply Separator Subject: RE: Re[2]: Thermal Testing Author: richwo...@tycoint.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 5/7/2002 17:39 This almost appears to be too good to be true. Let's see if I have this right. 34970A Data Acquisition/Switch Unit with software, $1290 34901A 20 Channel Mux, $395 34307A Thermocouple kit with 10 thermocouples, $98 Total for a 20 channel thermocouple system is $1881. That's cheap! OK, what is wrong with this picture (if anything)? Anyone have anything negative to say about this system? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: Michael Taylor [mailto:mtay...@hach.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 10:23 AM To: 'duncan.ho...@snellwilcox.com'; EMC-PSTC Discussion Group; richwo...@tycoint.com Subject: RE: Re[2]: Thermal Testing We also use the 34970A for data acquisition with HP BenchLink for our safety testing and are very pleased with it's performance and ease of use. We also have a Hydra II system which mostly gathers dust now. The 34970 / BenchLink system is so much easier to setup & use. Also the data log is a snap to link into a Word report. For what it's worth. Michael Taylor Colorado -Original Message- From: duncan.ho...@snellwilcox.com [mailto:duncan.ho...@snellwilcox.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:46 AM To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group; richwo...@tycoint.com Subject: Re[2]: Thermal Testing Richard, We use an Agilent 34970A data aquisition unit with three 34901A 20 channel mux modules fitted. This is not a PC card but a rack and stack instrument about the size of a bench DVM that connects to the PC via a serial cable. It also comes with the software. Very similar to the fluke hydra II. This has proven to be an excellent instrument and well worth the investment. Most other equipment of the same price could only offer around 10 channels of measurement whereas this allows up to 60. It is also modular so you only need buy as many 20 channel mux modules as you need. Regards, Duncan Reply Separator Subject: Re: Thermal Testing Author: Doug McKean List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 5/6/2002 22:11 richwo...@tycoint.com wrote: > > Do any of you monitor and record component temperatures during safety > testing using PCs and data capture I/O cards? If so, what hardware and > software to you use? I do any monitoring any temp testing with a Fluke Hydra II and associated PC software. Set up and define probes, start software, dump into an Excel spreadsheet or report. Communication between the Fluke and the PC is done through serial ports. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- --
Re[2]: Thermal Testing
Richard, We use an Agilent 34970A data aquisition unit with three 34901A 20 channel mux modules fitted. This is not a PC card but a rack and stack instrument about the size of a bench DVM that connects to the PC via a serial cable. It also comes with the software. Very similar to the fluke hydra II. This has proven to be an excellent instrument and well worth the investment. Most other equipment of the same price could only offer around 10 channels of measurement whereas this allows up to 60. It is also modular so you only need buy as many 20 channel mux modules as you need. Regards, Duncan Reply Separator Subject: Re: Thermal Testing Author: Doug McKean List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 5/6/2002 22:11 richwo...@tycoint.com wrote: > > Do any of you monitor and record component temperatures during safety > testing using PCs and data capture I/O cards? If so, what hardware and > software to you use? I do any monitoring any temp testing with a Fluke Hydra II and associated PC software. Set up and define probes, start software, dump into an Excel spreadsheet or report. Communication between the Fluke and the PC is done through serial ports. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- --
EN60950:1992 vs EN60950:2000
Group, Does anyone have a list of all the differences between EN60950:1992 and EN60950:2000? If so may I have a copy. Many thanks in advance Duncan Hobbs. -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
EN60950 Special National Conditions
Group, Does any one know the specific technical reason for the spanish special national condition 3.2.1 that says that equipment up to 10A shall be provided with a plug according to UNE20315? As Spain use the standard European CEE7 (schuko) plug (which I am assuming UNE20315 refers to) then why is this National requirement specific to Spain and not all other continental countries that use this same plug/socket and power system? Many thanks, Duncan. Hobbs. -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Switch Inrush Ratings
Group, Does anyone know how the inrush capability of switches is specified? Is there a particular standard for how inrush (with regard to switches not EMC) is specified? Any ideas or comments would be most helpful. Regards Duncan. -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Thermal effects on EMC and Earth Leakage
Group.
I am interested to find out peoples opinions on a particular trend we've
seen time and time again on most switch mode PSU's. It seems that once a PSU is
warm its earth leakage decreases and its EMC emission performance decreases
(i.e. it gets noisier). This would suggest that there is some sort of thermal
effect, probabaly in the Y caps, that reduces their capacitance.
Has anyone done any work in this area or can anyone explain the physics of this
change. Is it as simple as expansion of the dielectric or is it more complicated
than this? Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly recieved.
Many thanks in advance,
Duncan Hobbs
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The frustrating search for certificates!
Group, I'm having problems trying to talk to someone who can help with providing safety certification for some PC based components. I have tried both organisations 'technical' helplines, to no avail and they seem unable to put me in contact with anyone who knows what I am asking for. Does anyone in the group have a contact in Seagate and Mitsumi who may be able to assist in matters of regulatory compliance? Many thanks in advance, Duncan Hobbs, Product Safety Engineer Snell and Wilcox Ltd. -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
EN60601 vs EN60950 and EN60065
Group, We are looking at a power supply to use in a product which will have two derivatives, one for professional broadcast use (tested to EN60950 for Europe and UL1419 in the US.) and one for Domestic use (EN60065 and UL6500). Traditionally we have used power supplies approved to EN60950 and UL1950, and this has satisfied UL and our European test house. The problem is that the power supply we intend to use for this particular product is approved to EN60601-1 and UL2601-1 which is a medical electrical equipment standard. I would guess that amongst other things, the creepage, clearance would be greater and the earth leakage smaller than that of an equivalent 60950 approved PSU? Is there anyone who is conversant with these standards who may be able to give me a brief summary of the main differences (relating to PSU's) between the 950 and 65 based standards and the medical standards listed above? Has anyone ever used a medical power supply in an IT or domestic application? If so were there any pitfalls or problems regarding the different standard requirements? Were UL happy with its application? Any information or advice would be greatly recieved. Many thanks in advance. Duncan Hobbs. -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
UL 1419 Earth Leakage
Group, Are there any group members who are familiar with the earth leakage requirements of UL1419 (Standard for Safety - Professional Audio and Visual equipment) in section 41.1 Our equipment is a detachable power cord connected, class 1 appliance rated at 100 -250 V. Section 41.1.9 of the standard clearly states that 'Switch S1 as shown in figure 41.1 is used only for direct plug in power supply products that do not employ an equipment grounding conductor...' (S1 acually open circuits the neutral conductor) My three questions are: - Would they use S1 when leakage testing our type of equipment? - What is the definition of 'direct plug in' (it is not mentioned in the definitions section) - For 'direct plug in' equipment what is the reason for operating this switch i.e what is the rationale behind the provision of S1. Any help or comments would be greatly recieved. Many thanks in advance, Duncan Hobbs, Product Safety Engineer Snell and Wilcox Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Got another beef about an NRTL....
Group, What about another scenario that I have been in with two NRTL's. For the sake of embarrassment,lets call them 'NRTL A' and 'NRTL B' Firstly any components or equipment recognised or listed by an NRTL are deemed 'acceptable' to OSHA so long as it is used as prescribed in its conditions of acceptability or use. so can I presume that as OSHA accepts any NRTL mark they are all of equal standing. Why is it then that NRTL A will not accept a power supply approved by NRTL B. The latter is true for NRTL B who will accept NRTL A's mark with no problems (in all cases the conditions of acceptability are followed) So long as the conditions of acceptability are followed and there are no engineering reasons for NRTL A to reject NRTL B's approval then what happens next. Is there any recourse or would we have to go to one NRTL and get the whole lot retested. If there is no engineering reason, can an NRTL reject anothers recognition just because it distlikes it or maybe sees it as competition! Has anyone else had a similar experience, if so what did you do to resolve it without paying out for more NRTL approvals on an already recognised component. Any comments would be greatly recieved. Regards, Duncan Hobbs, Product Safety Engineer Snell and Wilcox Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re[2]:Protection or Control?
I know that most safety standards require the equipment to remain safe under single fault conditions. In this case the single fault I would consider would be that of failure of the thermostat (i.e short circuited) The first thing to consider would be, can the failure of this device allow the temperature to reach a hazardous level taking into account, touch temperatures, thermal limits on other components in the vicinity (electrical and mechanical) and possibility of ignition. If the answer is yes then this component is safety critical as its failure can lead to an unsafe condition. If this is so then a protection measure would have to be taken to ensure that the equipment remained 'safe' under single fault conditions. Now you have one component for control and one component for protection, the protective device only operating when the equipment is out of control. In a previous job I had to run a test on some equipment that included a heating element. as a result of fault testing the control circuit the element became so hot its metal fins melted and dripped into the bottom of the enclosure! The problem was resolved with a series thermal cutout mounted on the element body. Hope this is helpful... Regards. Reply Separator Subject:Re:Protection or Control? Author: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 21/09/00 15:46 forwarding for luizboni...@ig.com.br Reply Separator Subject:Protection or Control? Author: "Luiz Claudio" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 9/20/00 9:59 PM I have a question to those who are familiar with the safety requirements established electrical appliance standards. A bimetal thermostat is usuallly used to control the temperature of a certain ambient within certain limits. Can it also be considered as a protection device? I'm not going to give my oppinion to avoid any possibility of biased answers. But, please, give your oppinion. If you have a reference publication which I could use as a reference for a work to be presented, please include it in your answer. If not, no problem. Just give your oppinion. Please answer this message to my personal email address: luizboni...@ig.com.br Thanks a lot, Luiz --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Prefered Fuse Values
Group, I have an interesting problem with a mains filter and fuse. We have a product with a 6 amp filter that can draw up to a maximum of about 5.8A. The filter has a built in 20mm fuse holder and we would normally fit a T type HBC fuse. The problem is that all fuses appear to be available in prefered values, the nearest of which being 5 (too small) or 6.3 (too large) I'm sure that this is not the first time someone has encountered this so your comments would be appreciated. Ideally we are looking for a 20mm 6AT HBC fuse with european and UL approval or recognition. Does anyone know where I can obtain such a fuse? Many thanks is advance, Duncan Hobbs. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:Telecom Regulatory Generator
Peter and Group, Try a company called Genesys Telecom. I know that they produce such documents called 'Regulatory Factfiles' and that they cover all of the items mentioned in your note as well as EMC and safety info. Their website is at www.gentel.co.uk, the fact files are about £15 each and they can send them in Acrobat format which means that they can supply them instantly if you pay by credit card. I'm not sure which countries they have files for, but it is worth contacting them or looking on their website where you can download a couple of examples. Hope this helps, Regards, Duncan. Reply Separator Subject:Telecom Regulatory Generator Author: List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 30/03/00 14:01 Dear All, Anyone knows of a "telecom regulatory generator" where one can easily find the regulatory requirements in a particular country, including but not limited to: regulating authorities and contacts; test labs and contacts; applicable safety/emc/telecom standards and mutual recognitions (acceptance of international test reports). Thanks Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:RE: Product Safety Certification School
Dan,Rich Dick,Dirk and group. I would also aggree. years ago I served an apprenticeship with a major computer manufacturer and for my final year and a half chose to work in product safety. At the end of the apprenticeship I decided that I wanted to go to university and get a degree and I set out to find a Degree course with a product safety content. In the end I couldn't find one and ended up doing an electrical and electronics degree. The degree enhanced my electrical theory but there was no product safety content except for the presentation on product liability that I gave as part of an engineering managment module. I believe that it is fundamental that if designers are to design to meet standards they at least need to be taught the fundamentals of why the standards exist and their basic requirements. Perhaps this is somthing that the IEE or the IEEE should take up with the academic institutions, as I know that they have a lot of involvement in setting course sylabusses and accrediting degrees. Regards, Duncan Reply Separator Subject:RE: Product Safety Certification School Author: Dirk Atama List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 3/6/00 6:00 PM Dan/Rich/Dick- My two pence: I agree, too, that a module of some basic power electronics courses could be a product safety lesson. We have hired new college graduates that had little inkling of what was of concern for product safety; often times they have a modicum of intuitive feel for products unsafe, but it takes a while to breed in the safety sense that we so often take for granted. I nominate Surrey-on-Trent Mines Engineer Technical College to spawn the first course. I'll call the headmaster and put a bug in his bum for the idea. Dr. Dirk ><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > -- We all spend time online; make some extra $$ free at http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=EDL-665 -- > > --- Dick Grobner wrote: > > > My 2 cents: I agree, it would make my life easier in > compliance engineering > if the EE's & ME's would have a little basic > understanding of the concepts > of product safety. It seems that they have a general > knowledge of EMI/RFI > but the product safety side is still missing. > > -Original Message- > From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 5:01 PM > To: dan_mitch...@condordc.com > Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: Re: Product Safety Certification School > > > > > > Hi Dan: > > > > Last year, sometime, reference was made about > the possible creation of a > > University program to teach Product Safety. I > was wondering if anybody > has > > heard anything further about this program? > > I probably was the one who mentioned that > engineering > schools should include a 1-term course in product > safety. > > Its on my wish-list. I'd like to find even one > engineering school that would consider such a > course, > and then I'd volunteer to help create the course. > > But, I believe that no engineering school currently > has such a course. > > > Best regards, > Rich > > > > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product > Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: > jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson: > pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product > Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: > jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson: > pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Prod
Re:Web Sites
Scott and group, I agree this is a well thought out site. I'm doing a similar exercise at the moment and trying to get hold of all of the approval certificates for components within one of our products. This can be hard work owing to the variation in the quality and quantity of information available. One site that I believe stands out above all others is www.wickmannusa.com. Again this is not an advert for the company but for the common sense layout of the site, and... get this ON LINE APPROVAL CERTIFICATES! (downloadable in PDF form) Its interesting how the ease of obtaining these certificates varies. Some companies you call know exactly what you mean and send the details stright away, whereas others are clueless or send you copies of their ISO9000 certificate of approval or technical specs. One manufacturer of removable storage devices I recently contatcted has even refered my request to its head office as the lady I spoke to didn't know what I was asking for and believed that safety related documentation was 'company confidential' Another one of my annoyances is manufacturers who quote 'flame retarded to UL94-V0' Is it listed? sometimes it is sometimes it is not so why dont they say either 'UL listed Exx or 'manufactured from UL94-V0 material Exx' or manufactured from non UL listed material that has passed a UL94-V0 test' The point I am trying to make is that I wish that all suppliers/manufacturers were as good as the best ones and have an organised system for retaining and issuing these certificates and give clear and concise information on approvals and listings. Some companies you call, you would think that you are the first and only person who has ever asked for the certificates. Surely others must ask for these on a regular basis? A stark contrast from the best ones where they know what you require and have it ready to hand. Regards, Duncan Reply Separator Subject:Web Sites Author: "Scott Douglas" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 3/1/00 9:22 AM Hello All, I have been traveling the internet for the past several weeks tracking down agency approval information for the various components we use in our products. Of the more than 30 sites I have visited, one stands out particularly well. It is a good example of how a well designed web site could function, navigation was always clear, the information complete. Well almost anyway. The only thing lacking from this site is a copy of the agency approval certifications for the components in question. This is not an advertisement for the company, but for the logic of a well done site. Would that many more were this well done. http://www.volex.com Scott s_doug...@ecrm.com ECRM Incorporated Tewksbury, MA USA - This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list adminstrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com, or Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Fwd:pollution degree 1? 2?
Chris, Whilst considering a 'standard office environment' it is worth considering how mobile the equipment is and the variety of environments in which it could be used. Although most P.C.'s sit on a desk in a heated office, condensation is not really a problem, however, such equipment is not usually bolted to the wall, and by the definition of EN60950 is regarded as 'moveable'. Consider, for example a computer system unit that has just been brought in from a cold car into the warm office, or one installed near a door in a warehouse and is subject to rapid temperature and humidity changes. Most business and domestic products are going to experience a degree of condensation in use, transport or storage. The only real way to try and avoid condensation is with a potted or sealed enclosure, or to keep the equipment within the non condensing temperature limit for the given humidity. Unfortunately the latter cannot be controlled by us manufacturers! Most I.T. equipment would classed as polution degree 2 on the basis that in storage transport or use you could not guarantee that the product would not experience a degree of condensation. Hope this helps, Duncan Forward Header_ Subject:pollution degree 1? 2? Author: Chris Wells List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 1/16/00 7:59 AM Kurt In your feedback (thank you!) you state that pollution degree 1 is for conditions with NO pollution at all like a potted epoxy environment. This is the impression I got from UL and other sources. Help me out here please. >From my memory the definition in EN61010-1 (same as in IEC 664) Pollution degree 1 is for non conductive dust environments - no condensation. Pollution degree 2 is for non conductive dust environments - occasional condensation Pollution degree 3 is for conductive dust environments. The definition for pollution degree 1 implies that this is a standard office like environment. Am I missing something here? Do most PCB spacings get evaluated to pollution degree 2? in ITE? in Automation equipment like Programmable Logic Controllers ? Thanks . Chris Wells Senior Design Eng Cutler-Hammer Pittsburgh Pa well...@ch.etn.com Original Message- From: Andrews, Kurt [mailto:kandr...@tracewell.com] Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 12:14 PM To: Price, Ed; 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Cc: 'Chris Wells' Subject: RE: Pollution degree help Ed, Chris, Normally Pollution Degree 1 is used for items that receive no pollution at all. These are hermetically sealed or potted/encapsulated parts. However you can use pollution degree 1 for internal PCB layers. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
FDA Laser Regulations
Group, In one of our products we use a certified laser transmitter. The unit is class 1, is internally protected so it cannot exceed this limit and it has an FDA ascession number i.e. a report on the product is filed with the FDA. The other day whilst searching the FDA website I found laser notice number 42 which states that 'the CDRH will consider firms incorperating certified class 1 laser products into another product as distributors of laser products certified and reported by other manufacturers.' It goes on to give some conditions, mostly regarding the labeling. Earlier on in the same document examples of such situations were given as 'disc drive units incorperated into computers, CD players installed into home entertainment centres and CD players installed into automobiles' The laser we use is in a drop in DIL package and is an approved laser product in its own right. The main question is how applicable is this? In words it would seem that we are 'incorperating a certified class 1 laser product' but there is a big difference between a CD player as a hi fi seperate and a CD player as a component module that is then built into a Hi Fi seperate. The main difference being that the seperate is a 'laser system' i.e. it has a power supply and the CD module is not and therefore cannot be used unless it is installed in another unit. The car CD player or the PC CD ROM would also need to be installed before they could be used. The main question here is does the relaxation in the CRDH laser reporting requirements for incorperated certified class 1 laser products cover 'laser systems' laser components or both? Many thanks in advance, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
EN60950 Earth Leakage Measurement Circuit.
Group, I am trying to construct a simple earth leakage test circuit as in Annex D of EN60950. I am finding it impossible to find a capacitor for Cs (0.22uF) as I cannot find one that is the required value, tolerence and voltage rating. Am I missing somthing here? Even if I use a network of capacitors I would have to use quite a few of them to get the right value! It would appear that the 1% tolerence that is requested is a bit unrealistic given the value and required voltage rating. Has anybody else found this and if so how was it resolved? Are there any manufacturers of earth leakage testers who may be able to hint on how they manage to overcome this? Any suggestions would be greatly recieved... thanks, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Regulatory safety Requirements for the US
Group, Forgive me if this subject has been covered before but I am finding it very hard to determine the EXACT regulatory requirements for the states. As far as I understand it is the responsibility of the installer or business using electrical equipment to ensure that it satisfies the requirements of the national wiring code and OSHA. To do this recognition or listing by an NRTL is required. Is it correct to assume that as manufacturers there is no mandate that equipment must be recognised by an NRTL although the customer will almost certainly want this to forfil his obligations. I am just trying to get a definitive statement on what is mandated by law (and which law mandates it) and what is standard practice for safety compliance in the US. As a general rule all equipment we ship to the states is UL listed but this question keeps getting circulated and asked to me why do we need to do this. My answer is that it is the responsible thing to do and that it proves due diligence, although I am sure that there is a legal reason behind this. It just seems a bit of a hazy issue and one that I would like to get a definitive answer on. Many thanks in advance, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
EMC and Safety of equipment used in aircraft
Group, What safety and EMC standards would I have to consider for a piece of equipment initially intended for use in a TV studio, but that is requested to be able to be used in a helecopter or plane? I am also interested in what other requirements and standards there may be for shock and vibration, temperture and humidity and for acoustic noise in such an application. I am also sure that the creepage and clearance distances in the product safety standards do not hold true at elevated altitudes so what happens here? any info would be greatly recieved. Regards, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re:RE: Power hazard on modular equipment
Group, Thanks for your thoughts on this. The main problem is not the power supply as this derives its power from the backplane and so it is not powered up if removed. The main problem is the other slots where the cumulative power from all of the redundant power supplies is avaialable and this is over 240VA. On its own each PSU is under the 240VA limit. To add insult to injury the type of connectors used on compact PCI (amp Z packs) do not have a female board mount derivative, at least not a straight one but a right angle one, hence the male connectors have ended up on the backplane. Who wrote this silly compact PCI standard anyway! (it obviously had no input from a product safety engineer!) any more examples of how you guys have overcome this problem would be appreciated. Thanks again, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Power hazard on modular equipment
Group, Has anyone had any experience of problems with energy hazards on modular products and may be able to give some advice. The problem is that some of our equipment uses the compact PCI standard for interconnection. One of the main problems with the compact PCI standard is that it uses male connectors on the backplane card. This becomes a big problem when there is a bank of redundant power supplies capable of supplying over 240VA The product is modular and therefore a customer can hot-plug cards. When all cards are in place they have current limiting on board and there is no access to the backplane therefore there is no problem, however they are removable without a tool and because the system is modular you never know how many slots will be used. EN60950 clearly states that 'there shall be no energy hazards in the user accessable areas' and this is quite clearly the case so how do other manufacturers of IT equipment with compact PCI busses and large power supplies get over this problem? Do other people screw their boxes shut, screw their cards in, designate the equipment for use only in a restricted access area, or use another method of protection from the hazard. I know the possible solutions but I am looking for feedback as to how some other people have overcome this and what method they have used. Any information anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
LCD Displays
I have a product that has an LCD display with an Inverter that operates at 100Khz 2KV and I believe is capable of supplying 6.5mA The question is does it require a fire enclosure? If it does what are the requirements for the flamability of the screen and any plastic protective covers fitted to it. The screen is quite large, about the size of a laptop PC screen. Perhaps some laptop PC manufacturers might have some ideas? are there any other things I must consider when using such a device apart from, obviously, insulation of the HT. Regards, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re:UL1950 Flammibility Requirements
Paul, I know that EN60950 specifies that the minimum flamability requirement for plastic 'decorative covers' external to the fire enclosure is HB, and I am sure that UL1950 requirements are the same. The relevant section of the standard is section 4.4.4 and this reads as follows: 'Mechanical enclosures, electrical enclosures, and parts of enclosures, if located externally to fire enclosures, and decorative parts shall be shall be of flamability class HB or better' The section then goes on to discuss exemptions for small components that would supply negligable fuel to a fire. The minimum V2 rating is specified for components within fire enclosures. One important point to note is that often materials are rated at a certain thickness so you would need to be sure that the material thickness used would satisfy the HB requirements Hope this helps, Duncan - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re:Ground Bond Testers
Brian, In the past I have had to do similar tests on large test equipment racks. In this case I used a large power supply to achieve the required current and used a seperate milliohmeter to measure the resistance. This method seemed to satisfy the witness testers when they came to see the test. Regards, Duncan - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Laser safety for U.S. and Europe
Forward Header_ Subject:Re:RE: No subject given Author: Duncan Hobbs List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 8/25/99 8:52 AM Thanks for your response to my posting. What I am trying to understand is whether as our product incorperates a laser device that is already certified and has an ascession number with the CRDH (FDA) we are exempt and if so what else we will have to do for UL approval. There is also the question about safeguards for the transmitters. As far as I understand the LED transmitter falls under the 1mW limit and thus is exempt from any legislation or standard regarding laser safety. As for the class one laser I believe all we need to do is put a 'Class one laser product' warning in the designated border (EN60825 figure 15), either on the product or in the user guide. the only question then is is the laser intrinsically protected i.e can it exceed class 1 limits under fault conditions. The manufacturer tells me that it is a closed loop system and the laser diode would burn out long before it exceeded class 1 limits. What marking would be required on the laser arpetures? (these have spring back covers)? the laser is used for a short fibre optic link between products so does the fact that the laser radiation is extrinsic (in the sense that it leaves the product via fibre) mean that there are other safety and regulatory requirements to consider? any help and advice would be greatly recieved. Thanks, Duncan - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
No subject given
I have two products, one that incorperates an LED transmitter of 1330nm wavelength and optical output of -14dBm and one that uses a class 1 laser transmitter. Both are pulsed duration. As far as I understand, the LED transmitter falls outside the IEC825 requirements as it is below the 1mW limit for LED's. What needs to be done for the laser? The transmitter module is a laser product in its own right and already has an acession number with the FDA and is stated to meet the requirements of IEC825. As far as I understand there needs to be a standard 'Class 1 Laser Product' label either on the product or in the instruction manual and our product can be listed with the FDA as one that incorperates a laser product. The unit is to be sold in the US and Europe. Any advice would be greatly recieved. Thanks Duncan - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
