Re: Avionics EMC & Safety standards - US
Sections 15 -23 include power quality and lightning as well as EMC. The EMC core is section 20 (rf CS and RS), and section 21 (rf CE & RE). Sections 22 & 23 are lightning. 25 is ESD. There is no "safety" section, per se. Flight critical functions are subject to the "continued safe flight and landing" criteria. That is, regardless of whether the environment is vibration, temperature, or EMC, if the operation of a flight critical function is in question, then the pass/fail criteria is that the circuit function in a way that allows for the continued safe flight and landing of the aircraft. From: "Brent DeWitt" Reply-To: "Brent DeWitt" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:05:37 -0600 To: "Gary McInturff" , "EMC-PSTC \(E-mail\)" Subject: RE: Avionics EMC & Safety standards - US Hi Gary, I only have DO-160D to reference, but sections 15 through 23 and 25 address what I would think of as EMC related testing. Haven't really looked for the safety parts. With respect, Brent DeWitt p.s. "He who opens a can of worms will soon find he needs a bigger can!" ;-} From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gary McInturff Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 4:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: Avionics EMC & Safety standards - US I believe DO160 gives guidance on aircraft environmental conditions (temp, vibration etc), how about EMC and Safety main documents? Thank you Gary (I only hope I'm not opening up a horrible can or worms)
RE: Avionics EMC & Safety standards - US
Hi Gary, I only have DO-160D to reference, but sections 15 through 23 and 25 address what I would think of as EMC related testing. Haven't really looked for the safety parts. With respect, Brent DeWitt p.s. "He who opens a can of worms will soon find he needs a bigger can!" ;-} From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gary McInturff Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 4:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: Avionics EMC & Safety standards - US I believe DO160 gives guidance on aircraft environmental conditions (temp, vibration etc), how about EMC and Safety main documents? Thank you Gary (I only hope I'm not opening up a horrible can or worms)
Avionics EMC & Safety standards - US
I believe DO160 gives guidance on aircraft environmental conditions (temp, vibration etc), how about EMC and Safety main documents? Thank you Gary (I only hope I'm not opening up a horrible can or worms)
RE: Price comparison for EMC/Safety standards
Try these: http://global.ihs.com/ http://www.bsi.org.uk/ http://www.ornl.gov/Library/engineering.html http://www.document-center.com/home.cfm/sid=29459005/ Some sites are better than others, but there is sometimes $100 difference or more. Josh -Original Message- From: Barry Ma [mailto:barry...@altavista.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 5:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Price comparison for EMC/Safety standards Hi, Do we have any website for price comparison of EMC/Safety standards? If wanting to buy books, we may go some websites below for price comparison: http://www.evenbetter.com/books.html http://www.addall.com/AddBooks/Stores.html http://home.bestedeal.com/cgi-bin/book/book/book.cgi http://www.bestbookbuys.com/ Regards, Barry Ma b...@anritsu.com ___ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Price comparison for EMC/Safety standards
Hi, Do we have any website for price comparison of EMC/Safety standards? If wanting to buy books, we may go some websites below for price comparison: http://www.evenbetter.com/books.html http://www.addall.com/AddBooks/Stores.html http://home.bestedeal.com/cgi-bin/book/book/book.cgi http://www.bestbookbuys.com/ Regards, Barry Ma b...@anritsu.com ___ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: EMC & Safety Standards
For non ionizing radiation limits, refer to ANSI/IEEE C95.1 > -- > From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz[SMTP:mur...@grucad.ufsc.br] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 11:42 AM > To: Lista de EMC da IEEE > Subject: EMC & Safety Standards > > > Dear Group, > > I'm making a study on EMC & Safety Standards, and some questions > appeared. I'd like to post them to the group to see if someone can help > me. The questions are: > > # Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment... And > the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for protection > of the user/operator? > > # The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms (ENs)?? > > # Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing > Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health? > > I think that's all... Thanks in advance for those who can help! > > > Best Regards, > > Muriel > -- > == > Muriel Bittencourt de Liz > GRUCAD - Grupo de Concep> ção e Análise de Dispositivos Eletromagnéticos > Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina > Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL > Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790 > e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br > ICQ#: 9089332 > > - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: EMC & Safety Standards
The issue of artifical limits has come up before. Refer VCCI to their own document. The also have the 80/80 statistical limits that CISPR has in their documentation, along with requirements for production line tests. There are no additional mandatory limits in their requlations. If they aren't there they can't impose them (they certainly try often enough and can often be successful but that still doesn't give them any legal authority to do so. Germany tried that for awhile, but I believe has finally gotten that idea beat out of them. Incidentially, even with the 80/80 and other production run tests, I would recommend that you have some corporate direction on what passing really is, a 3 dB or so internal limit is certainly reasonable, but you'll have to have a decision on what you do if you don't meet that internal limit. (Some of your customers may also have something to say on that HP for example generally requires an addtional 3dB 80/80 limits - or atleast the division I have worked with did and they put it into the purchase specifications. Gary -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 10:08 AM To: 'Muriel Bittencourt de Liz'; Lista de EMC da IEEE Subject: RE: EMC & Safety Standards Muriel, I will only respond on the VCCI issue as others have covered the product safety issue well. The VCCI (Voluntary Control Council for Interference of ITE Equipment)limits are based on the CISPR 22 (EN 55022) limits, with Class A & Class B categories. In my experience with VCCI has shown that although mandatory limits are specified, 'margins' are required. For example, if the limit is 40dBuv, VCCI members would prefer to see a margin of 6dB or 34dBuv. In essence they lower the limit and that's what you have to meet in order for your equipment to be deemed acceptable. The reason for this (as I had been told by a VCCI member company - who I will not name) is that during the manufacturing process of a product, a cable shield may inadvertantly not get grounded, or an ECO (Engineering Change Order) meant to reduce emissions may not get implemented on a specific lot of products, etc. . . therefore the product still has a chance in being compliant. Hope this helps. John A. Juhasz Product Qualification & Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-370-1324 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz [ mailto:mur...@grucad.ufsc.br <mailto:mur...@grucad.ufsc.br> ] Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 2:43 PM To: Lista de EMC da IEEE Subject: EMC & Safety Standards Dear Group, I'm making a study on EMC & Safety Standards, and some questions appeared. I'd like to post them to the group to see if someone can help me. The questions are: # Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment... And the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for protection of the user/operator? # The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms (ENs)?? # Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health? I think that's all... Thanks in advance for those who can help! Best Regards, Muriel -- == Muriel Bittencourt de Liz GRUCAD - Grupo de Concepção e Análise de Dispositivos Eletromagnéticos Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790 e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br ICQ#: 9089332 - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: EMC & Safety Standards
Muriel, I will only respond on the VCCI issue as others have covered the product safety issue well. The VCCI (Voluntary Control Council for Interference of ITE Equipment)limits are based on the CISPR 22 (EN 55022) limits, with Class A & Class B categories. In my experience with VCCI has shown that although mandatory limits are specified, 'margins' are required. For example, if the limit is 40dBuv, VCCI members would prefer to see a margin of 6dB or 34dBuv. In essence they lower the limit and that's what you have to meet in order for your equipment to be deemed acceptable. The reason for this (as I had been told by a VCCI member company - who I will not name) is that during the manufacturing process of a product, a cable shield may inadvertantly not get grounded, or an ECO (Engineering Change Order) meant to reduce emissions may not get implemented on a specific lot of products, etc. . . therefore the product still has a chance in being compliant. Hope this helps. John A. Juhasz Product Qualification & Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-370-1324 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz [mailto:mur...@grucad.ufsc.br] Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 2:43 PM To: Lista de EMC da IEEE Subject: EMC & Safety Standards Dear Group, I'm making a study on EMC & Safety Standards, and some questions appeared. I'd like to post them to the group to see if someone can help me. The questions are: # Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment... And the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for protection of the user/operator? # The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms (ENs)?? # Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health? I think that's all... Thanks in advance for those who can help! Best Regards, Muriel -- == Muriel Bittencourt de Liz GRUCAD - Grupo de Concepção e Análise de Dispositivos Eletromagnéticos Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790 e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br ICQ#: 9089332 - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: EMC & Safety Standards
Muriel,
First of all these answers are based on my knowledge of the safety standards
for Information Technology Equipment and Test Equipment, which is what our
company produces.
# Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment...
And
the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for
protection
of the user/operator?
Safety standards are for the protection of the user/operator and to some
extent, maintenance personnel. They don't really cover protection of the
equipment. In fact in the Information Technology Equipment standards (UL
1950, IEC 950, and EN 60950) the equipment will not fail if the equipment
catches fire so long as the fire doesn't spread outside of the equipment or
emit to much toxic smoke/gases i.e. not a hazard to personnel.
# The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms
(ENs)??
Not sure about this one. As far as I know the VCCI standards are Japanese
EMC only standards. I'm not sure how they compare to the EN standards for
EMC. I imagine someone else in the group can elaborate on this one.
# Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing
Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health?
The standards I have only deal with Ionizing radiation. All safety standards
are product specific i.e. each standard has a scope which indicates what
type of equipment it is to be used for. You must use the proper standard for
your type of equipment. For instance the IEC 1010-1 standard has the
following scope-"This international standard specifies general safety
requirements for electrical equipment intended for professional, industrial
process, and educational use, including equipment and computing devices for:
measurement and test, control, laboratory use, and accessories intended for
use with the above. (e.g. sample handling equipment)." You only need to meet
the requirements of the standard for your type of equipment. So if the
standard required for your type of equipment has something about
Non-ionizing radiation then you would need to address that. If it has no
requirement, you don't need to worry about it.
Hope this helps.
Kurt Andrews
Compliance Engineer
Tracewell Systems, Inc.
567 Enterprise Dr.
Westerville, OH 43081
Ph. 614-846-6175
Fax 614-846-7791
Email: kandr...@tracewell.com
-Original Message-
From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz [SMTP:mur...@grucad.ufsc.br]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 2:43 PM
To: Lista de EMC da IEEE
Subject:EMC & Safety Standards
Dear Group,
I'm making a study on EMC & Safety Standards, and some questions
appeared. I'd like to post them to the group to see if someone can
help
me. The questions are:
# Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment...
And
the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for
protection
of the user/operator?
# The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms
(ENs)??
# Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing
Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health?
I think that's all... Thanks in advance for those who can help!
Best Regards,
Muriel
--
==
Muriel Bittencourt de Liz
GRUCAD - Grupo de Concepção e Análise de Dispositivos
Eletromagnéticos
Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina
Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL
Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790
e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br
ICQ#: 9089332
-
This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list.
To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org
with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the
quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com,
jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or
roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
-
This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list.
To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org
with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the
quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com,
jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or
roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: EMC & Safety Standards
My comments are embedded below. -- From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz [SMTP:mur...@grucad.ufsc.br] Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 2:43 PM To: Lista de EMC da IEEE Subject: EMC & Safety Standards Dear Group, I'm making a study on EMC & Safety Standards, and some questions appeared. I'd like to post them to the group to see if someone can help me. The questions are: # Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment... And the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for protection of the user/operator? The international safety standard that is used for Information Technology Equipment and Business Equipment is IEC950. Many countries have adopted this standard as their national standard. The objective of the standard is to prevent all types of hazards including electrical shock, fire, mechanical, chemical, thermal and radiation hazards. The protection applies to the operator and to service persons. # The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms (ENs)?? I understand that the VCCI standards are EMC standards. Japan has adopted IEC safety standards including IEC950. However, as many countries do, they have introduced national deviations. You would have to compare Japan's deviations to those of the EU to determine how they affect your equipment. All of these deviations may be found in the CB Bulletin which is published by the IEC. # Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health? ICNIRP Guidelines:1998 IEEE C95.1:1991 ENV 50166-1:1995 ENV 50166-2:1995 NRPB Vol 4. No. 5:1993 VDE 0848-2:1982 VDE0848-4:1989 ACGIH Guidelines:1999 I think that's all... Thanks in advance for those who can help! Best Regards, Muriel -- == Muriel Bittencourt de Liz GRUCAD - Grupo de Concepção e Análise de Dispositivos Eletromagnéticos Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790 e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br ICQ#: 9089332 - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
EMC & Safety Standards
Dear Group, I'm making a study on EMC & Safety Standards, and some questions appeared. I'd like to post them to the group to see if someone can help me. The questions are: # Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment... And the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for protection of the user/operator? # The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms (ENs)?? # Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health? I think that's all... Thanks in advance for those who can help! Best Regards, Muriel -- == Muriel Bittencourt de Liz GRUCAD - Grupo de Concepção e Análise de Dispositivos Eletromagnéticos Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790 e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br ICQ#: 9089332 - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
