Re: Final EMC Testing In-House
of81d18a4a.0bea4c26-on862569ff.0057e...@us.tuv.com, ggars...@us.tuv.com wrote: Do any product standards actually set limits for immunity to supply frequency variations? One that comes to mind (specific to Programmable Controllers [ aka PLC's]) is EN 61131-2 (IEC 61131-2). 6.3.7.1.1 (table 47) requires (inter alia ) testing incoming power AC frequency from 0.95 to 1.05 of the nominal. (As you may expect, the requirement is that the EUT must function properly both during and after the tests.) Noted, thank you. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Final EMC Testing In-House
Do any product standards actually set limits for immunity to supply frequency variations? One that comes to mind (specific to Programmable Controllers [ aka PLC's]) is EN 61131-2 (IEC 61131-2). 6.3.7.1.1 (table 47) requires (inter alia ) testing incoming power AC frequency from 0.95 to 1.05 of the nominal. (As you may expect, the requirement is that the EUT must function properly both during and after the tests.) best regards, glyn Glyn R. Garside Notice: This message is confidential and intended for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If this e-mail was sent to you in error please notify the originator at the address above delete the message without reading its contents. John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demTo: Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk on.co.ukcc: 'marti...@appliedbiosystems.com' Sent by: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com, 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' owner-emc-pstemc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org c...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Final EMC Testing In-House 02/23/2001 05:00 Please respond to John Woodgate 01c09d74.1acbb9a0.chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk, Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk wrote: If 1), then I believe you have covered all the tests, assuming supply frequency variations are captured in Voltage fluctuations. Do any product standards actually set limits for immunity to supply frequency variations? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Final EMC Testing In-House
Don't forget to ask for calibration certs for purchased equipment. Cal Certs are not automatic with the purchase of test equipment. - Original Message - From: Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 3:19 PM Subject: RE: Final EMC Testing In-House Joe: You also should budget for: 1. A place to put the test equipment. 2. All the little associated goodies, like cables probes connectors the usual forgotten items. 3. Cost of maintenance and periodic calibration. 4. Somebody to learn how to do the testing and operate the equipment. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:24 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Final EMC Testing In-House Group, We are planning to perform final EMC testing in-house for the following tests per EN 61326: EN 61000-4-2 ESD EN 61000-4-4 Line Transients EN 61000-4-5 Surge EN 61000-4-6 Conducted Immunity EN 61000-4-11 Voltage Interruptions EN 61000-3-2 Harmonics EN 61000-3-3 Voltage Fluctuations With the exception of purchasing test equipment that meets the standards, what else is required for us to perform final testing? Please note that we are not planning to perform Radiated Emissions and Radiated Immunity testing. Your help is appreciated Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Final EMC Testing In-House
01c09d74.1acbb9a0.chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk, Chris Chileshe chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk wrote: If 1), then I believe you have covered all the tests, assuming supply frequency variations are captured in Voltage fluctuations. Do any product standards actually set limits for immunity to supply frequency variations? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Final EMC Testing In-House
f9d85b6af82bd4119ae800d0b769603b2c6...@kestrel.vgscientific.com, Brian Harlowe brian.harl...@vgscientific.com wrote: Another English pennyworth to add to all the other correspondents. You will need to have the equipment calibrated at least once a year by a NAMAS lab or similar in order to maintain credibility of your measurements!!! There is no REQUIREMENT to do that. The ONLY requirement is that the Declaration of Conformity be true. If you choose to use cross- calibration or some other method, such as a unit's internal calibrator or an external calibrator that is itself checked by a measurements lab, that's up to you. It's all very well for you guys with million dollar budgets to give 'counsel of perfection' advice but the majority of firms are SMEs and can in no way afford to do all that you can do. Furthermore, it isn't necessary: the DTI published a document 'Minimising the cost of meeting the EC Directive on electromagnetic compatibility.' in August 1993. It should probably be re-issued. I can e-mail a scanned copy (.pdf) if anyone wants one. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Final EMC Testing In-House
Another English pennyworth to add to all the other correspondents. You will need to have the equipment calibrated at least once a year by a NAMAS lab or similar in order to maintain credibility of your measurements!!! Brian Harlowe Thermo V.G. Scientific Tel +44 (0)1342 327211 Fax +44 (0)1342 315074 -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Sent: 22 February 2001 17:24 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Final EMC Testing In-House Group, We are planning to perform final EMC testing in-house for the following tests per EN 61326: EN 61000-4-2 ESD EN 61000-4-4 Line Transients EN 61000-4-5 Surge EN 61000-4-6 Conducted Immunity EN 61000-4-11 Voltage Interruptions EN 61000-3-2 Harmonics EN 61000-3-3 Voltage Fluctuations With the exception of purchasing test equipment that meets the standards, what else is required for us to perform final testing? Please note that we are not planning to perform Radiated Emissions and Radiated Immunity testing. Your help is appreciated Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Final EMC Testing In-House
Hi Joe, Not sure I've understood your question correctly. Are you asking 1) If there are further tests that need to be added to your list to complete the EMC requirements (excluding of course radiated emissions and immunity) or 2) What extra equipment you need to perform the tests you have already listed. If 1), then I believe you have covered all the tests, assuming supply frequency variations are captured in Voltage fluctuations. If 2), then following the standard should highlight the need for appropriate ground planes, grounding connections, correct cable lengths and types of insulation where appropriate. It might be an idea to establish clearly what your line impedance is when you do the harmonic measurements. Regards - Chris -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [SMTP:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 5:24 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Final EMC Testing In-House Group, We are planning to perform final EMC testing in-house for the following tests per EN 61326: EN 61000-4-2 ESD EN 61000-4-4 Line Transients EN 61000-4-5 Surge EN 61000-4-6 Conducted Immunity EN 61000-4-11 Voltage Interruptions EN 61000-3-2 Harmonics EN 61000-3-3 Voltage Fluctuations With the exception of purchasing test equipment that meets the standards, what else is required for us to perform final testing? Please note that we are not planning to perform Radiated Emissions and Radiated Immunity testing. Your help is appreciated Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org This message has been checked for all known viruses, by Star Internet, delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit: http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp This message has been checked for all known viruses, by Star Internet, delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit: http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Final EMC Testing In-House
Keep in mind that some of these tests call for a rather specific table and floor with grounded planes and very specific distances. When I've seen this done properly, it was an extensive (and possibly expensive) job. Look carefully at the EN documents, particularly the appendices which typically describe the setups. Bringing in a good EMC consultant might save you a lot of head-scratching. Paul O'Shaughnessy Affymetrix, Inc. -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:24 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Final EMC Testing In-House Group, We are planning to perform final EMC testing in-house for the following tests per EN 61326: EN 61000-4-2 ESD EN 61000-4-4 Line Transients EN 61000-4-5 Surge EN 61000-4-6 Conducted Immunity EN 61000-4-11 Voltage Interruptions EN 61000-3-2 Harmonics EN 61000-3-3 Voltage Fluctuations With the exception of purchasing test equipment that meets the standards, what else is required for us to perform final testing? Please note that we are not planning to perform Radiated Emissions and Radiated Immunity testing. Your help is appreciated Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Final EMC Testing In-House
Joe: You also should budget for: 1. A place to put the test equipment. 2. All the little associated goodies, like cables probes connectors the usual forgotten items. 3. Cost of maintenance and periodic calibration. 4. Somebody to learn how to do the testing and operate the equipment. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:24 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Final EMC Testing In-House Group, We are planning to perform final EMC testing in-house for the following tests per EN 61326: EN 61000-4-2 ESD EN 61000-4-4 Line Transients EN 61000-4-5 Surge EN 61000-4-6 Conducted Immunity EN 61000-4-11 Voltage Interruptions EN 61000-3-2 Harmonics EN 61000-3-3 Voltage Fluctuations With the exception of purchasing test equipment that meets the standards, what else is required for us to perform final testing? Please note that we are not planning to perform Radiated Emissions and Radiated Immunity testing. Your help is appreciated Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Final EMC Testing In-House
of55390c23.34feabb4-on882569fb.005ea...@pe-c.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com wrote: Group, We are planning to perform final EMC testing in-house for the following tests per EN 61326: EN 61000-4-2 ESD EN 61000-4-4 Line Transients EN 61000-4-5 Surge EN 61000-4-6 Conducted Immunity EN 61000-4-11 Voltage Interruptions EN 61000-3-2 Harmonics EN 61000-3-3 Voltage Fluctuations With the exception of purchasing test equipment that meets the standards, what else is required for us to perform final testing? Please note that we are not planning to perform Radiated Emissions and Radiated Immunity testing. Strictly, you do not need to buy the costly, single-purpose equipment that is specified in the various sections of EN61000-4. You can use measurements based on normal general-purpose equipment, provided that you can be sure that the measurements using the special-purpose equipment will not be less favourable to your equipment under test. For an extreme example, if your equipment does not cause visible disturbance to a 60 W lamp connected to the same distribution system in your premises as the equipment being tested, you may be pretty sure that when you test it with your USD5000+ flicker meter, it will meet EN61000-3-3. NOTE THAT EN61000-3-2 and EN61000-3-3 have recently been extensively amended so as to relax many requirements. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Final EMC Testing In-House
Group, We are planning to perform final EMC testing in-house for the following tests per EN 61326: EN 61000-4-2 ESD EN 61000-4-4 Line Transients EN 61000-4-5 Surge EN 61000-4-6 Conducted Immunity EN 61000-4-11 Voltage Interruptions EN 61000-3-2 Harmonics EN 61000-3-3 Voltage Fluctuations With the exception of purchasing test equipment that meets the standards, what else is required for us to perform final testing? Please note that we are not planning to perform Radiated Emissions and Radiated Immunity testing. Your help is appreciated Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
