RE: safety testing in the USA
Dear All, Thank you for your postings, it has given me enough ammunition to persuade the supplier to change their point of view, they have now agreed to test correctly. Regards Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: safety testing in the USA
I've had to do all of those, even acting as the agent for the manufacturer to get the project off and running. But it was only done when there were unique situations - such as a custom power supply or something of that nature. If there was more than one choice it wasn't rocket science to weed out the suppliers who weren't advancing in the selection process. Gary -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:39 AM To: 'John Shinn'; rob.humph...@reuters.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: safety testing in the USA Dear Friends, Many times the vendor does not wish to obtain NRTL Listing because of the investigation costs involved and the yearly follow-up costs. One way that vendors might agree to submit their products for NRTL Listing is to have the buyer pay for all the costs involved or even to share the costs with the buyer. Also please be aware that for small production runs, especially for large and complex equipment, most manufacturers use the Field Evaluation Services that most NRTLs offer these days. This type of investigation is very subjective (construction and minimal non-destructive tests) since evaluation is done at each installation site (first machine is checked thoroughly, others are verified to be of identical construction). Field evaluation is very popular with local inspectors in some US states, especially Washington, Oregon and North Carolina. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: John Shinn [mailto:john.sh...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:27 AM To: rob.humph...@reuters.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: safety testing in the USA There has been some good responses to this post. And it is, in general, true that a manufacturer is not mandated, by law, to have the product LISTED by an appropriate Safety Testing Agency (NRTL). However, it may be required by the local inspection agency prior to installation. (This was covered in other posts). However, if you, as the customer, requests that the product be tested and listed by an applicable NRTL, and the vendor is not willing to have the product tested for compliance with the appropriate standard(s), then you should RUN to the nearest exit and find another vendor. Assume that a vendor, who is not willing to have their product tested and listed for by an appropriate testing agency, is hiding something and the vendor is aware that the product would not comply if tested. OO John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations Sanmina-SCI -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of rob.humph...@reuters.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion
RE: safety testing in the USA
Greg, OSHA regulations allow for an alternataive to Listing. The owner of the equipment may create a construction file describing how safety is accomplished and have the file available for OSHA review. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: Gregg Kervill [mailto:gr...@test4safety.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 6:53 PM To: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: safety testing in the USA Thanks for identifying the States Rich - I have tried to get that list for ages. BUT - There is an IMPORTANT caveat - if the product is to used where OSHA rules apply then it is mandatory that the product be 'approved' by a NRTL of which UL is the most easily identified. So if the product is for commercial use - then there is a legal requirement to had it 'badged' by an NRTL. Gregg -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of richwo...@tycoint.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 12:48 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: safety testing in the USA Some states (e.g., North Carolina), counties (e.g., Orange, CA) and cities (e.g., Los Angeles and San Francisco)have a legal requirement that all electrical products for sale must be Listed. Some local electrical codes (e.g., Oregon) require electrical equipment be Listed. Since my company sells products virtually everywhere in the USA, we List all of our products including those powered by Class 2 sources. I recommend that you do the same unless you know for a fact that your target locality has no legal requirements for Listing. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: rob.humph...@reuters.com [mailto:rob.humph...@reuters.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: safety testing in the USA
Dear Friends, Many times the vendor does not wish to obtain NRTL Listing because of the investigation costs involved and the yearly follow-up costs. One way that vendors might agree to submit their products for NRTL Listing is to have the buyer pay for all the costs involved or even to share the costs with the buyer. Also please be aware that for small production runs, especially for large and complex equipment, most manufacturers use the Field Evaluation Services that most NRTLs offer these days. This type of investigation is very subjective (construction and minimal non-destructive tests) since evaluation is done at each installation site (first machine is checked thoroughly, others are verified to be of identical construction). Field evaluation is very popular with local inspectors in some US states, especially Washington, Oregon and North Carolina. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: John Shinn [mailto:john.sh...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:27 AM To: rob.humph...@reuters.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: safety testing in the USA There has been some good responses to this post. And it is, in general, true that a manufacturer is not mandated, by law, to have the product LISTED by an appropriate Safety Testing Agency (NRTL). However, it may be required by the local inspection agency prior to installation. (This was covered in other posts). However, if you, as the customer, requests that the product be tested and listed by an applicable NRTL, and the vendor is not willing to have the product tested for compliance with the appropriate standard(s), then you should RUN to the nearest exit and find another vendor. Assume that a vendor, who is not willing to have their product tested and listed for by an appropriate testing agency, is hiding something and the vendor is aware that the product would not comply if tested. OO John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations Sanmina-SCI -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of rob.humph...@reuters.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: safety testing in the USA
Thanks for identifying the States Rich - I have tried to get that list for ages. BUT - There is an IMPORTANT caveat - if the product is to used where OSHA rules apply then it is mandatory that the product be 'approved' by a NRTL of which UL is the most easily identified. So if the product is for commercial use - then there is a legal requirement to had it 'badged' by an NRTL. Gregg -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of richwo...@tycoint.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 12:48 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: safety testing in the USA Some states (e.g., North Carolina), counties (e.g., Orange, CA) and cities (e.g., Los Angeles and San Francisco)have a legal requirement that all electrical products for sale must be Listed. Some local electrical codes (e.g., Oregon) require electrical equipment be Listed. Since my company sells products virtually everywhere in the USA, we List all of our products including those powered by Class 2 sources. I recommend that you do the same unless you know for a fact that your target locality has no legal requirements for Listing. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: rob.humph...@reuters.com [mailto:rob.humph...@reuters.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: safety testing in the USA
Hi Rob: I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? I am going to interpret your statement of safety testing as meaning safety certification. In the USA, there are two sets of regulations that are mandated by law: 1. Workplace regulations (OSHA). 2. Electrical installation regulations (NEC). Between these two sets of regulations, almost every sales situation is covered. Each of these has two alternatives: 1. Test each unit in place. 2. Third-party certification. Technically, your supplier is correct. Third-party safety certification is NOT mandatory (because testing each unit in place is the alternative). Practically, your supplier is wrong. Third-party safety certification avoids testing each unit in place. In the USA, governments cannot mandate testing by a private party (which is the case of third-party safety certification houses). Consequently, the regulations promulgated under various laws prescribe testing in place, with an alternative of third- party certification to a national standard, i.e., an ANSI standard. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: safety testing in the USA
There has been some good responses to this post. And it is, in general, true that a manufacturer is not mandated, by law, to have the product LISTED by an appropriate Safety Testing Agency (NRTL). However, it may be required by the local inspection agency prior to installation. (This was covered in other posts). However, if you, as the customer, requests that the product be tested and listed by an applicable NRTL, and the vendor is not willing to have the product tested for compliance with the appropriate standard(s), then you should RUN to the nearest exit and find another vendor. Assume that a vendor, who is not willing to have their product tested and listed for by an appropriate testing agency, is hiding something and the vendor is aware that the product would not comply if tested. OO John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations Sanmina-SCI -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of rob.humph...@reuters.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: safety testing in the USA
Another interesting point that can be made is I didn't say it was law, I said List it or I won't buy it. Depending on the product (basically, if there's a Listed competitor product on the market), you can make it happen. In the US, often a Listing mark is enforced by marketing more than law. Many retail stores have the requirement of products they put on the shelf to be Listed, thereby passing on the liability, and reducing their insurance costs. just my 2 cents (I've got the paystub to prove it) Sam -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of rob.humph...@reuters.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: safety testing in the USA
Hi Rob: I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? I am going to interpret your statement of safety testing as meaning safety certification. In the USA, there are two sets of regulations that are mandated by law: 1. Workplace regulations (OSHA). 2. Electrical installation regulations (NEC). Between these two sets of regulations, almost every sales situation is covered. Each of these has two alternatives: 1. Test each unit in place. 2. Third-party certification. Technically, your supplier is correct. Third-party safety certification is NOT mandatory (because testing each unit in place is the alternative). Practically, your supplier is wrong. Third-party safety certification avoids testing each unit in place. In the USA, governments cannot mandate testing by a private party (which is the case of third-party safety certification houses). Consequently, the regulations promulgated under various laws prescribe testing in place, with an alternative of third- party certification to a national standard, i.e., an ANSI standard. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: safety testing in the USA
Here is a very good discussion of the leagalities. http://www.conformity.com/A02F18.pdf Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 12:40 PM To: rob.humph...@reuters.com; EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: RE: safety testing in the USA Rob. Required is an interesting term, and this is a long debate involving OSHA, National Electrical Code, fire codes and when and if anybody inspects the equipment before its installed. There are places that you probably would be alright, some that you wouldn't probably be caught even if it wasn't right, and then there are places like the City of LA that seems to have a pretty rigorous inspection policy. They by the way can give you a City of LA inspection, but it isn't of any real value outside of LA. Then there are customers that use the safety marks in an attempt to reduce their liability by showing they have done what any reasonable manufacturer would do to protect customers. So short pragmatic answer, in my opinion, yes you need it. Gary The debate rages on -Original Message- From: rob.humph...@reuters.com [mailto:rob.humph...@reuters.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: safety testing in the USA
Some states (e.g., North Carolina), counties (e.g., Orange, CA) and cities (e.g., Los Angeles and San Francisco)have a legal requirement that all electrical products for sale must be Listed. Some local electrical codes (e.g., Oregon) require electrical equipment be Listed. Since my company sells products virtually everywhere in the USA, we List all of our products including those powered by Class 2 sources. I recommend that you do the same unless you know for a fact that your target locality has no legal requirements for Listing. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: rob.humph...@reuters.com [mailto:rob.humph...@reuters.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: safety testing in the USA
Rob. Required is an interesting term, and this is a long debate involving OSHA, National Electrical Code, fire codes and when and if anybody inspects the equipment before its installed. There are places that you probably would be alright, some that you wouldn't probably be caught even if it wasn't right, and then there are places like the City of LA that seems to have a pretty rigorous inspection policy. They by the way can give you a City of LA inspection, but it isn't of any real value outside of LA. Then there are customers that use the safety marks in an attempt to reduce their liability by showing they have done what any reasonable manufacturer would do to protect customers. So short pragmatic answer, in my opinion, yes you need it. Gary The debate rages on -Original Message- From: rob.humph...@reuters.com [mailto:rob.humph...@reuters.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:46 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: safety testing in the USA Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
safety testing in the USA
Group, I am in discussions with a potential supplier of IT equipment, Its our usual policy to request testing to a listed standard such as UL 60950 for safety in North America. The supplier has replied that this is not mandatory. Is he correct? what compels safety testing for IT equipment in this geography? is it mandated by law? Thanks in advance for your opinions Rob - --- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
