Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
andyholcomb wrote: > So I am understanding you to say that if I get say the 2500 count/rev > encoders and, say a 1.6 gig processor that your system would not have a > problem with it? > No problem, I generally use 600 MHz Pentium machines for EMC with my hardware. The FPGA on the UPC board does all the hard, real-time stuff, the CPU just checks the position and sends out a new velocity every millisecond. > How hard will this be to tune? > EMC2 has a digital "scope" built in, and you can put position, velocity and following error on the screen as you make jog moves. You bring up the "calibration" menu, and change parameters while jogging and looking at the scope traces. When the error is small enough, you save the settings to the ini file, and they are used from then on. > If later on I wanted to sync the spindle, would it do it? Yes, I was doing this at the recent NAMES show, although on a mill, but I put threads into bar stock in the spindle. You can change the spindle speed while it is threading, and it will follow the spindle speed precisely. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
andyholcomb wrote: >> >>So, for basic lathe functions, it will run $250 + 2*125 + 50 = >>$550. You likely will need additional I/O control points for >>your tool turret, etc. although the controller has 16 digital >>inputs and 8 SSR positions for output. This board functions as >>a break-out board, so nothing else is needed to hook it up. >> >> > > Jon can you clarify more on the above I/O info it confused me, do I need > more I/O or is yours enough? > Andy For a simple lathe, with spindle speed, X and Z, limit and home switches, and coolant, what is provided on the UPC is more than enough. When you get into tool turrets, gear changers, pneumatic/hydraulic chuck release and bar pullers, then you run out of bits quickly. You can daisy-chain up to four boards together, but that may not be the most cost-effective solution if all you want is more digital I/O points. I could imagine running a tool turret with what is available on the UPC, but the way most of them are set up, it isn't enough. You need digital outputs to run the spindle, unlock the chuck, unlock the turret, rotate the turret, enable the servos and coolant. So, that is 6. You need a minimum of 3 input bits for the turret position if there are 8 positions. You normally use up 4 input bits per servo axis, that would be 8. So, that leaves 7 bits available, after the estop input, which is mandatory. It could work, but these machines usually have a raft of other sensors and interlocks that you will want to hook up. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
So I am understanding you to say that if I get say the 2500 count/rev encoders and, say a 1.6 gig processor that your system would not have a problem with it? How hard will this be to tune? If later on I wanted to sync the spindle, would it do it? Andy Jon Elson wrote: >Andy Holcomb wrote: > > >>What resolution of encoders have should I use, my first thought is as >>high as possible, is my logic wrong? >> >> >If you are going to use Gecko 320's and software step >generation, then your logic is indeed wrong. Depending on your >software and CPU choice, software step generation maxes out at >40 - 50 thousand steps/second. Assuming a 5 TPI leadscrew with >the encoder directly driven from it, and 100 IPM rapid feeds, >then you have 500 RPM on the screw. If the encoder has, say, >1000 cycles/rev, that gives 4000 counts in quadrature, so you >have 500 * 4000 = 2,000,000 counts/minute, or 33,333 >counts/second. That is nearing the limit of software. If you >wanted higher encoder resolution or higher rapid feed rates, you >would be out of luck. > >If you are using hardware step generation, or get rid of the >steps entirely, like with my PPMC or universal PWM controller >system, then it is not a concern. > >Higher encoder resolution leads to a stiffer and smoother servo >response, in general. > >Jon > >- >This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >___ >Emc-users mailing list >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Jon Elson wrote: >Andy Holcomb wrote: > > >>Does anyone know the price an encoder that would work on this machine >>with emc and not made out of gold? >> >> >> >I have been buying my encoders recently on eBay in the $20 - 50 >range, new in factory box. But, BEI, Dynapar and such make >affordable encoders. Some are listed in the Digi-Key and Mouser >catalogs. > > >>Will the geckos run these motors? and are they good with emc? I am >>trying to get an idea of the cost to retro fit it. >> >> >Assuming DC brush motors with common specs, yes. But, you may >want to use an encoder feedback board and a servo amplifier, >rather than a Gecko-type step/direction drive. For instance, >precise homing may be harder with a Gecko 320 drive, as it >powers the encoder, but you need to at least get the encoder >index signal to the computer to refine the home position. > >My Universal PWM Controller board is $250, it supports 4 axes. >Wire the encoders and index signals, plus home and limit >switches to it. I make PWM servo amplifiers for $125, they >handle up to 20 A and 120 V (I have a special version for up to >160 V). There is a spindle DAC option for $50 that can control >a DC spindle controller or AC VFD to set spindle speed. > >So, for basic lathe functions, it will run $250 + 2*125 + 50 = >$550. You likely will need additional I/O control points for >your tool turret, etc. although the controller has 16 digital >inputs and 8 SSR positions for output. This board functions as >a break-out board, so nothing else is needed to hook it up. > > Jon can you clarify more on the above I/O info it confused me, do I need more I/O or is yours enough? Andy >If you want to keep the servo amplifiers (might be a good or bad >idea depending on the make and condition) I have the PPMC board >set that has DACs to drive the +/- 10 V signals they take. This >runs $780 but you get to use the existing servo amps. > >Jon > >- >This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >___ >Emc-users mailing list >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Andy Holcomb wrote: > What resolution of encoders have should I use, my first thought is as > high as possible, is my logic wrong? If you are going to use Gecko 320's and software step generation, then your logic is indeed wrong. Depending on your software and CPU choice, software step generation maxes out at 40 - 50 thousand steps/second. Assuming a 5 TPI leadscrew with the encoder directly driven from it, and 100 IPM rapid feeds, then you have 500 RPM on the screw. If the encoder has, say, 1000 cycles/rev, that gives 4000 counts in quadrature, so you have 500 * 4000 = 2,000,000 counts/minute, or 33,333 counts/second. That is nearing the limit of software. If you wanted higher encoder resolution or higher rapid feed rates, you would be out of luck. If you are using hardware step generation, or get rid of the steps entirely, like with my PPMC or universal PWM controller system, then it is not a concern. Higher encoder resolution leads to a stiffer and smoother servo response, in general. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Andy Holcomb wrote: > Does anyone know the price an encoder that would work on this machine > with emc and not made out of gold? > I have been buying my encoders recently on eBay in the $20 - 50 range, new in factory box. But, BEI, Dynapar and such make affordable encoders. Some are listed in the Digi-Key and Mouser catalogs. > Will the geckos run these motors? and are they good with emc? I am > trying to get an idea of the cost to retro fit it. Assuming DC brush motors with common specs, yes. But, you may want to use an encoder feedback board and a servo amplifier, rather than a Gecko-type step/direction drive. For instance, precise homing may be harder with a Gecko 320 drive, as it powers the encoder, but you need to at least get the encoder index signal to the computer to refine the home position. My Universal PWM Controller board is $250, it supports 4 axes. Wire the encoders and index signals, plus home and limit switches to it. I make PWM servo amplifiers for $125, they handle up to 20 A and 120 V (I have a special version for up to 160 V). There is a spindle DAC option for $50 that can control a DC spindle controller or AC VFD to set spindle speed. So, for basic lathe functions, it will run $250 + 2*125 + 50 = $550. You likely will need additional I/O control points for your tool turret, etc. although the controller has 16 digital inputs and 8 SSR positions for output. This board functions as a break-out board, so nothing else is needed to hook it up. If you want to keep the servo amplifiers (might be a good or bad idea depending on the make and condition) I have the PPMC board set that has DACs to drive the +/- 10 V signals they take. This runs $780 but you get to use the existing servo amps. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Homing doesn't seem to work in the negative direcition
John Kasunich wrote: >Jack Ensor wrote: > > >>On my setup using Emc2 Version 2.1.3, I originally had the X axis homing >>on the positive (right hand) limit switch. It worked flawlessly. >> My ini file for it was: >> >>MIN_LIMIT = -13.2 >>MAX_LIMIT= 13.2 >>HOME_OFFSET = 13.2 >>HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 1.0 >>HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.05 >>HOME_USE_INDEX = NO >>HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES >>HOME_SEQUENCE = 1 >> >>I tried using the negative (left hand) limit switch for homing and the >>table would march right on past the left limit switch without stopping >>even though the indicator showing X position on the Axix display popped >>up a flag (arrow). Believing my ini file was in error, I tried various >>settings and still got the same result. Here is what my settings were >>for homing on the negative switch: >> >>MIN_LIMIT = -13.2 >>MAX_LIMIT= 13.2 >>HOME_OFFSET = -13.2 >>HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -1.0 >>HOME_LATCH_VEL = -0.05 >>HOME_USE_INDEX = NO >>HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES >>HOME_SEQUENCE = 1 >> >>Is there a bug in the program? >> >> > >Did you change your hal file so that the signal from the left limit >switch goes to the home pin? > >Regards, > >John Kasunich > >- >This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >___ >Emc-users mailing list >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > >. > > > You're right! I certainly did over look that! We'll fix that and I'm sure that will take care of it! Thanks. Jack Ensor - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Andy Holcomb wrote: >What resolution of encoders have should I use, my first thought is as >high as possible, is my logic wrong? > > Heh. I didn't see any logic in that statement, just a conclusion ;) In general, higher resolution is better. It will increase cost though, both because very high resolution encoders are more expensive, and because they will require hardware to read them at any significant speed. Here's what I'd do to figure out what resolution encoder you need. First, you should know the distance the axis in question moves per turn of the encoder shaft (this may not be the same as the servo shaft). Next, decide the effective accuracy you'll want from the machine. In general, you'll want the feedback resolution to be greater than the desired effective resolution - at least twice the resolution, and often people say 10 times (at least in the measurement wotld). The last thing to think about is whether the machine itself is built to the tolerances you want - no point getting 1 micron encoder counts with acme screws ... Once you have all that info, it's easy to figure out the resolution you need/want: encoder resolution = (steps per inch or mm) / (shaft revs per inch or mm). so 10 revs/inch at 5 steps/inch resolution = 5/10 = 5000 counts, or a 12-13 bit encoder (4096 or 8192 counts/rev, respectively). Hope this helps. Sorry I can't be more specific regarding this machine. - Steve - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Andy Holcomb wrote: > Does anyone know the price an encoder that would work on this machine > with emc and not made out of gold? The encoders are standard TTL out put with differential, just use the non-inverted signals if you need single end, there is also a tach output. > > Will the geckos run these motors? and are they good with emc? I am > trying to get an idea of the cost to retro fit it. Geckos should run OK but probably not to full potential since they have an 80V limit. I use 320 Geckos on a mill useing EMC and except for the lower speed it works Ok >> >>Assuming resolver feedback there are a couple things you can do. The >>first is get a resolver to quadrature converter box. With such a box >>you get the signal generator to power the resolver and a fixed number of >>pulses per rotation of it. You could also replace the resolver with an >>encoder. This is what MattS and I did with a Hardinge lathe. He had a >>little spindle built that matched the size and arrangement of the >>Harosun(sp) resolver and mounted a shaft encoder on top of it. Thats the plan for a Hardinge CHNC I picked up cheap, I have a couple of ideas on turning the turret but don't mind suggestions! >> >>Okay. Let's say now that you've got quadrature feedback of axis and >>spindle position. Now you need a way to get those signals into the PC >>running EMC2. Several board makers have devices that can do this. EMC >>has HAL driver modules that can read these. In alphabetical order, some >>of these include. Mesa, Pico, Pluto, STG, Vigilant, Vital. You'll find >>links to these companies at www.linuxcnc.org. >> >>And lastly you will have to produce a velocity signal of the sort >>expected by the motor's drive amplifier. In that age most of the drives >>used an analog signal that varied between -10v and +10 volt. Again the >>board makers will usually have that ability as well. I have schematics of this part if needed. Ed. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Andy Holcomb wrote: > What year is the model of the book you are looking at? > The book came with the machine and appears to be original 1982 > This is the type that moves spindle in and out, is that the type you are > looking at? Yup, appears to be the same, head moves left-right, turret moves in-out > > Next question, what would you pay for it, 1000 too much? > Andy > Operational machines in this size with conventional headstock and same vintage bring 1K to 3K. Ed. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
What resolution of encoders have should I use, my first thought is as high as possible, is my logic wrong? Andy Dave Engvall wrote: > > On May 15, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Andy Holcomb wrote: > >> Does anyone know the price an encoder that would work on this machine >> with emc and not made out of gold? > Of course, the first thing to do is make certain that you have > resolvers and therefore need to to something about this. > http://web2.automationdirect.com/static/specs/encoderld.pdf > These encoders are $80 + change and seem to work OK. They are not IP64 > so you may want to isolate them from the > environment a bit. > > US Digital also makes encoders that are not too spendy. > > Dave > >> >> Will the geckos run these motors? and are they good with emc? I am >> trying to get an idea of the cost to retro fit it. >> >> Andy >> >> Ray Henry wrote: >>> I started servicing CNC machines a couple years before this machine was >>> made. I never saw a stepper used for axis positioning until much later. >>> They were used to pace the tape through a tape reader during that >>> time. >>> >>> Let's assume that you've got servos. Next issue is the nature of the >>> position feedback. Many of the machines from the the seventies and >>> eighties used resolvers rather than pulse coders. A resolver does not >>> produce pulses that can be counted. >>> >>> A resolver uses ac rather than dc power. They take two ac signals, sine >>> and cosine to each other and return the rotor position as a phase >>> shifted signal. My experience suggests that one way you can tell a >>> resolver is that the six wires from it were twisted in pairs. If it was >>> placed in a can with a plug, good luck figuring it out. (This is where a >>> wiring diagram would be a real help) >>> >>> Assuming resolver feedback there are a couple things you can do. The >>> first is get a resolver to quadrature converter box. With such a box >>> you get the signal generator to power the resolver and a fixed number of >>> pulses per rotation of it. You could also replace the resolver with an >>> encoder. This is what MattS and I did with a Hardinge lathe. He had a >>> little spindle built that matched the size and arrangement of the >>> Harosun(sp) resolver and mounted a shaft encoder on top of it. >>> >>> Okay. Let's say now that you've got quadrature feedback of axis and >>> spindle position. Now you need a way to get those signals into the PC >>> running EMC2. Several board makers have devices that can do this. EMC >>> has HAL driver modules that can read these. In alphabetical order, some >>> of these include. Mesa, Pico, Pluto, STG, Vigilant, Vital. You'll find >>> links to these companies at www.linuxcnc.org. >>> >>> And lastly you will have to produce a velocity signal of the sort >>> expected by the motor's drive amplifier. In that age most of the drives >>> used an analog signal that varied between -10v and +10 volt. Again the >>> board makers will usually have that ability as well. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Rayh >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 15:19 -0500, Andy Holcomb wrote: >>> I am just looking at it, I wanted to know what the task of changing it to emc looked like. It does have the crt. I don't think he has the books. If this is a servo an encoder machine what equipment will be required to talk to it? Andy Ed wrote: > Andy Holcomb wrote: > > >> Has any buddy messed with any old Pratt and Whitney CNC Lathes? This >> one has a fujisu fanuc controller, it is a turn mate 1981 model. >> >> Does it run steppers of servos? >> >> If it is Servos what would it take to get emc running it? >> >> Andy >> >> - >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> >> >> >> > Does this machine have a CRT or is it a single line display? I have one > that was built in 82 that has a CRT and uses servo motors with encoders, > I bought it to do a retro with EMC but it turned out to have been > "disabled" so the machine would be replaced with a new one. Do you have > the books with it? They have good schematics. Ed. > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourcefor
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
On May 15, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Andy Holcomb wrote: Does anyone know the price an encoder that would work on this machine with emc and not made out of gold? Of course, the first thing to do is make certain that you have resolvers and therefore need to to something about this. http://web2.automationdirect.com/static/specs/encoderld.pdf These encoders are $80 + change and seem to work OK. They are not IP64 so you may want to isolate them from the environment a bit. US Digital also makes encoders that are not too spendy. Dave Will the geckos run these motors? and are they good with emc? I am trying to get an idea of the cost to retro fit it. Andy Ray Henry wrote: I started servicing CNC machines a couple years before this machine was made. I never saw a stepper used for axis positioning until much later. They were used to pace the tape through a tape reader during that time. Let's assume that you've got servos. Next issue is the nature of the position feedback. Many of the machines from the the seventies and eighties used resolvers rather than pulse coders. A resolver does not produce pulses that can be counted. A resolver uses ac rather than dc power. They take two ac signals, sine and cosine to each other and return the rotor position as a phase shifted signal. My experience suggests that one way you can tell a resolver is that the six wires from it were twisted in pairs. If it was placed in a can with a plug, good luck figuring it out. (This is where a wiring diagram would be a real help) Assuming resolver feedback there are a couple things you can do. The first is get a resolver to quadrature converter box. With such a box you get the signal generator to power the resolver and a fixed number of pulses per rotation of it. You could also replace the resolver with an encoder. This is what MattS and I did with a Hardinge lathe. He had a little spindle built that matched the size and arrangement of the Harosun(sp) resolver and mounted a shaft encoder on top of it. Okay. Let's say now that you've got quadrature feedback of axis and spindle position. Now you need a way to get those signals into the PC running EMC2. Several board makers have devices that can do this. EMC has HAL driver modules that can read these. In alphabetical order, some of these include. Mesa, Pico, Pluto, STG, Vigilant, Vital. You'll find links to these companies at www.linuxcnc.org. And lastly you will have to produce a velocity signal of the sort expected by the motor's drive amplifier. In that age most of the drives used an analog signal that varied between -10v and +10 volt. Again the board makers will usually have that ability as well. HTH Rayh On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 15:19 -0500, Andy Holcomb wrote: I am just looking at it, I wanted to know what the task of changing it to emc looked like. It does have the crt. I don't think he has the books. If this is a servo an encoder machine what equipment will be required to talk to it? Andy Ed wrote: Andy Holcomb wrote: Has any buddy messed with any old Pratt and Whitney CNC Lathes? This one has a fujisu fanuc controller, it is a turn mate 1981 model. Does it run steppers of servos? If it is Servos what would it take to get emc running it? Andy -- --- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Does this machine have a CRT or is it a single line display? I have one that was built in 82 that has a CRT and uses servo motors with encoders, I bought it to do a retro with EMC but it turned out to have been "disabled" so the machine would be replaced with a new one. Do you have the books with it? They have good schematics. Ed. --- -- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/lis
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Does anyone know the price an encoder that would work on this machine with emc and not made out of gold? Will the geckos run these motors? and are they good with emc? I am trying to get an idea of the cost to retro fit it. Andy Ray Henry wrote: I started servicing CNC machines a couple years before this machine was made. I never saw a stepper used for axis positioning until much later. They were used to pace the tape through a tape reader during that time. Let's assume that you've got servos. Next issue is the nature of the position feedback. Many of the machines from the the seventies and eighties used resolvers rather than pulse coders. A resolver does not produce pulses that can be counted. A resolver uses ac rather than dc power. They take two ac signals, sine and cosine to each other and return the rotor position as a phase shifted signal. My experience suggests that one way you can tell a resolver is that the six wires from it were twisted in pairs. If it was placed in a can with a plug, good luck figuring it out. (This is where a wiring diagram would be a real help) Assuming resolver feedback there are a couple things you can do. The first is get a resolver to quadrature converter box. With such a box you get the signal generator to power the resolver and a fixed number of pulses per rotation of it. You could also replace the resolver with an encoder. This is what MattS and I did with a Hardinge lathe. He had a little spindle built that matched the size and arrangement of the Harosun(sp) resolver and mounted a shaft encoder on top of it. Okay. Let's say now that you've got quadrature feedback of axis and spindle position. Now you need a way to get those signals into the PC running EMC2. Several board makers have devices that can do this. EMC has HAL driver modules that can read these. In alphabetical order, some of these include. Mesa, Pico, Pluto, STG, Vigilant, Vital. You'll find links to these companies at www.linuxcnc.org. And lastly you will have to produce a velocity signal of the sort expected by the motor's drive amplifier. In that age most of the drives used an analog signal that varied between -10v and +10 volt. Again the board makers will usually have that ability as well. HTH Rayh On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 15:19 -0500, Andy Holcomb wrote: I am just looking at it, I wanted to know what the task of changing it to emc looked like. It does have the crt. I don't think he has the books. If this is a servo an encoder machine what equipment will be required to talk to it? Andy Ed wrote: Andy Holcomb wrote: Has any buddy messed with any old Pratt and Whitney CNC Lathes? This one has a fujisu fanuc controller, it is a turn mate 1981 model. Does it run steppers of servos? If it is Servos what would it take to get emc running it? Andy - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Does this machine have a CRT or is it a single line display? I have one that was built in 82 that has a CRT and uses servo motors with encoders, I bought it to do a retro with EMC but it turned out to have been "disabled" so the machine would be replaced with a new one. Do you have the books with it? They have good schematics. Ed. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-u
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
What year is the model of the book you are looking at? This is the type that moves spindle in and out, is that the type you are looking at? Next question, what would you pay for it, 1000 too much? Andy Ed wrote: > Andy Holcomb wrote: > >> I am just looking at it, I wanted to know what the task of changing it >> to emc looked like. It does have the crt. I don't think he has the >> books. If this is a servo an encoder machine what equipment will be >> required to talk to it? >> >> Andy >> >> > The biggest problem will probably be indexing and locking the turret, my > books show the cutaway of the toolpost but the index of all the parts is > missing. It apears to be all air driven probably with solenoids and > position sensors. The encoders appear to be standard 5V diffential > output. The electronics could be handled quick and dirty with Geckos or > get a real servo system. (Jon E ?). Ed. > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Andy Holcomb wrote: > I am just looking at it, I wanted to know what the task of changing it > to emc looked like. It does have the crt. I don't think he has the > books. If this is a servo an encoder machine what equipment will be > required to talk to it? > > Andy > The biggest problem will probably be indexing and locking the turret, my books show the cutaway of the toolpost but the index of all the parts is missing. It apears to be all air driven probably with solenoids and position sensors. The encoders appear to be standard 5V diffential output. The electronics could be handled quick and dirty with Geckos or get a real servo system. (Jon E ?). Ed. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
I started servicing CNC machines a couple years before this machine was made. I never saw a stepper used for axis positioning until much later. They were used to pace the tape through a tape reader during that time. Let's assume that you've got servos. Next issue is the nature of the position feedback. Many of the machines from the the seventies and eighties used resolvers rather than pulse coders. A resolver does not produce pulses that can be counted. A resolver uses ac rather than dc power. They take two ac signals, sine and cosine to each other and return the rotor position as a phase shifted signal. My experience suggests that one way you can tell a resolver is that the six wires from it were twisted in pairs. If it was placed in a can with a plug, good luck figuring it out. (This is where a wiring diagram would be a real help) Assuming resolver feedback there are a couple things you can do. The first is get a resolver to quadrature converter box. With such a box you get the signal generator to power the resolver and a fixed number of pulses per rotation of it. You could also replace the resolver with an encoder. This is what MattS and I did with a Hardinge lathe. He had a little spindle built that matched the size and arrangement of the Harosun(sp) resolver and mounted a shaft encoder on top of it. Okay. Let's say now that you've got quadrature feedback of axis and spindle position. Now you need a way to get those signals into the PC running EMC2. Several board makers have devices that can do this. EMC has HAL driver modules that can read these. In alphabetical order, some of these include. Mesa, Pico, Pluto, STG, Vigilant, Vital. You'll find links to these companies at www.linuxcnc.org. And lastly you will have to produce a velocity signal of the sort expected by the motor's drive amplifier. In that age most of the drives used an analog signal that varied between -10v and +10 volt. Again the board makers will usually have that ability as well. HTH Rayh On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 15:19 -0500, Andy Holcomb wrote: > I am just looking at it, I wanted to know what the task of changing it > to emc looked like. It does have the crt. I don't think he has the > books. If this is a servo an encoder machine what equipment will be > required to talk to it? > > Andy > > > > > > Ed wrote: > > Andy Holcomb wrote: > > > >> Has any buddy messed with any old Pratt and Whitney CNC Lathes? This > >> one has a fujisu fanuc controller, it is a turn mate 1981 model. > >> > >> Does it run steppers of servos? > >> > >> If it is Servos what would it take to get emc running it? > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> - > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > >> ___ > >> Emc-users mailing list > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > >> > >> > >> > > Does this machine have a CRT or is it a single line display? I have one > > that was built in 82 that has a CRT and uses servo motors with encoders, > > I bought it to do a retro with EMC but it turned out to have been > > "disabled" so the machine would be replaced with a new one. Do you have > > the books with it? They have good schematics. Ed. > > > > - > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Homing doesn't seem to work in the negative direcition
Jack Ensor wrote: > On my setup using Emc2 Version 2.1.3, I originally had the X axis homing > on the positive (right hand) limit switch. It worked flawlessly. > My ini file for it was: > > MIN_LIMIT = -13.2 > MAX_LIMIT= 13.2 > HOME_OFFSET = 13.2 > HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 1.0 > HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.05 > HOME_USE_INDEX = NO > HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES > HOME_SEQUENCE = 1 > > I tried using the negative (left hand) limit switch for homing and the > table would march right on past the left limit switch without stopping > even though the indicator showing X position on the Axix display popped > up a flag (arrow). Believing my ini file was in error, I tried various > settings and still got the same result. Here is what my settings were > for homing on the negative switch: > > MIN_LIMIT = -13.2 > MAX_LIMIT= 13.2 > HOME_OFFSET = -13.2 > HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -1.0 > HOME_LATCH_VEL = -0.05 > HOME_USE_INDEX = NO > HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES > HOME_SEQUENCE = 1 > > Is there a bug in the program? Did you change your hal file so that the signal from the left limit switch goes to the home pin? Regards, John Kasunich - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
I am just looking at it, I wanted to know what the task of changing it to emc looked like. It does have the crt. I don't think he has the books. If this is a servo an encoder machine what equipment will be required to talk to it? Andy Ed wrote: > Andy Holcomb wrote: > >> Has any buddy messed with any old Pratt and Whitney CNC Lathes? This >> one has a fujisu fanuc controller, it is a turn mate 1981 model. >> >> Does it run steppers of servos? >> >> If it is Servos what would it take to get emc running it? >> >> Andy >> >> - >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> >> >> > Does this machine have a CRT or is it a single line display? I have one > that was built in 82 that has a CRT and uses servo motors with encoders, > I bought it to do a retro with EMC but it turned out to have been > "disabled" so the machine would be replaced with a new one. Do you have > the books with it? They have good schematics. Ed. > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Homing doesn't seem to work in the negative direcition
On my setup using Emc2 Version 2.1.3, I originally had the X axis homing on the positive (right hand) limit switch. It worked flawlessly. My ini file for it was: MIN_LIMIT = -13.2 MAX_LIMIT= 13.2 HOME_OFFSET = 13.2 HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 1.0 HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.05 HOME_USE_INDEX = NO HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES HOME_SEQUENCE = 1 I tried using the negative (left hand) limit switch for homing and the table would march right on past the left limit switch without stopping even though the indicator showing X position on the Axix display popped up a flag (arrow). Believing my ini file was in error, I tried various settings and still got the same result. Here is what my settings were for homing on the negative switch: MIN_LIMIT = -13.2 MAX_LIMIT= 13.2 HOME_OFFSET = -13.2 HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -1.0 HOME_LATCH_VEL = -0.05 HOME_USE_INDEX = NO HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES HOME_SEQUENCE = 1 Is there a bug in the program? Jack Ensor - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Andy Holcomb wrote: > Has any buddy messed with any old Pratt and Whitney CNC Lathes? This > one has a fujisu fanuc controller, it is a turn mate 1981 model. > > Does it run steppers of servos? > > If it is Servos what would it take to get emc running it? > > Andy > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > Does this machine have a CRT or is it a single line display? I have one that was built in 82 that has a CRT and uses servo motors with encoders, I bought it to do a retro with EMC but it turned out to have been "disabled" so the machine would be replaced with a new one. Do you have the books with it? They have good schematics. Ed. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate
Has any buddy messed with any old Pratt and Whitney CNC Lathes? This one has a fujisu fanuc controller, it is a turn mate 1981 model. Does it run steppers of servos? If it is Servos what would it take to get emc running it? Andy - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog wheel
Though I haven't tried it, I think the hal_input driver should work with that. The driver basically exports any axes or buttons it finds on USB HID class devices (Human Interface Devices). The wheel only provides 32 steps per rev, so it seems like it may be too low resolution to use directly. - Steve Jack Ensor wrote: >I wonder if any one has used or explored the use of the PowerMate >Controller for a jog wheel. Check out: > >http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate/ > >If not through the usb connection I wonder if it is basically an encoder >internally that one could adapt and interface with emc. > >Jack Ensor > > - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Jog wheel
I wonder if any one has used or explored the use of the PowerMate Controller for a jog wheel. Check out: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate/ If not through the usb connection I wonder if it is basically an encoder internally that one could adapt and interface with emc. Jack Ensor - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
