Re: [Emc-users] Sieg X3 Conversion with EMC control

[Terry]

Greg,

The drawings look good.
Bill of materials with websites is nice.
The bearing bores need to have their own
tolerance not just the generic one in the title 
block(+.xx,-.00),but anyone making the part would know this.
I feel bad pointing out things like this to someone.
You should try to make a set of parts just using just
your prints,you might find something you need to change.
I use prints from guys who do it for a living and I find mistakes 
all the time.
Plus if you are doing this for free I dont think anyone will
complain about the prints.

Keep up the good work

Terry

On Mon Jul 28 21:51 , 'Greg Michalski' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Might help if I include the link - 
http://www.distinctperspectives.com/X3/X3_CNC_CONVERSION.PDF
> 
>
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: 
>  Greg Michalski 
>  To: Enhanced Machine Controller 
>  (EMC) 
>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:31 PM
>  Subject: [Emc-users] Sieg X3 Conversion 
>  with EMC control
>  
>
>  If anyone would like to take a look at the print 
>  set I put together for my Sieg (Grizzly G0463) X3 mill CNC conversion and 
>  critique it I'd be EXTREMELY appreciative - I'm not schooled in mechanical 
>  drawing (I work for a dreaded architect...) so anything that doesn't make 
>  sense being pointed out would be very helpful.  I borrowed Solid 
>  Works licenses from my brother's company and taught myself to model the 
> parts 
>  in there as opposed to solids in Autocad which made it much easier and then 
>  used the standard tools to label and dimension, etc.
>   
>  I can take HARSH criticism so flame away!  
>  These documents are 100% public domain - everything I learned to design the 
>  conversion was garnered from information shared here, on CNCzone.com and 
>  elsewhere so this is my attempt to give back to the community - and on a 
>  mailing list for a GPL software package seems the optimal place to ask for 
>  some input - also is there is somebody who is familiar with the details of 
> GNU 
>  GPL let me know if referencing the intent on these documents as I did is 
>  appropriate or not.  I was in a rush to get these out to the community by 
>  my promised end of July deadline and license was the least important thing 
> so 
>  I kind of winged it.
>   
>  Come to think of it - I forgot to plug EMC2 in 
>  the introduction section - guess I can start revision 2...
>   
>  Thanks again.
>   
>  Greg Michalski
>  www.distinctperspectives.com
>  
>  
>
>  -
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>  SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's 
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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline

[Jon Elson]

Ron Ginger wrote:
>>I am a "servo bigot", and just don't want to do anything like 
>>machining metal while "flying blind", which is how I think of 
>>stepper systems.
>>
>>Jon
> 
> 
> I cant let this pass without a comment. As someone said earlier this is 
> 'holy war #1' in the CNC hobby.
> 
> It is a fact, not disputable, that thousands, maybe 10's of thousands, 
> of large, even Bridgeport machines use steppers. They make parts every 
> day, day after day and never loose a step.
Yup, that's why I specifically CHOSE the word "bigot", to imply 
an element of non-rationality to it.

But, losing steps is not the ONLY reason for servos.  There is 
also the speed range vs. resolution dilemma.  If you want more 
resolution, you need to gear down the stepper.  But, steppers 
are strongest at lower speeds, so gearing down cuts the high end 
speed.  I have encoder resolution of 50 uInch on my Bridgeport, 
but can go to 120 IPM if needed.  (I usually don't, as I tend to 
cause crashes.)  This would be hard to do with stepper motors.

Another thing is that axis alignment is preserved when you hit 
Estop or crash.  That generally isn't the case with a stepper 
system.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[Jon Elson]

Kenneth Lerman wrote:
> 
> Is that true? Since you always approach the home position in the same 
> direction, the width of the slot shouldn't matter at all. You should 
> just be looking at the leading edge.
Yes, that is exactly right.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Sieg X3 Conversion with EMC control

[Greg Michalski]

Might help if I include the link - 
http://www.distinctperspectives.com/X3/X3_CNC_CONVERSION.PDF

  - Original Message - 
  From: Greg Michalski 
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:31 PM
  Subject: [Emc-users] Sieg X3 Conversion with EMC control


  If anyone would like to take a look at the print set I put together for my 
Sieg (Grizzly G0463) X3 mill CNC conversion and critique it I'd be EXTREMELY 
appreciative - I'm not schooled in mechanical drawing (I work for a dreaded 
architect...) so anything that doesn't make sense being pointed out would be 
very helpful.  I borrowed Solid Works licenses from my brother's company and 
taught myself to model the parts in there as opposed to solids in Autocad which 
made it much easier and then used the standard tools to label and dimension, 
etc.

  I can take HARSH criticism so flame away!  These documents are 100% public 
domain - everything I learned to design the conversion was garnered from 
information shared here, on CNCzone.com and elsewhere so this is my attempt to 
give back to the community - and on a mailing list for a GPL software package 
seems the optimal place to ask for some input - also is there is somebody who 
is familiar with the details of GNU GPL let me know if referencing the intent 
on these documents as I did is appropriate or not.  I was in a rush to get 
these out to the community by my promised end of July deadline and license was 
the least important thing so I kind of winged it.

  Come to think of it - I forgot to plug EMC2 in the introduction section - 
guess I can start revision 2...

  Thanks again.

  Greg Michalski
  www.distinctperspectives.com


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[Emc-users] Sieg X3 Conversion with EMC control

[Greg Michalski]

If anyone would like to take a look at the print set I put together for my Sieg 
(Grizzly G0463) X3 mill CNC conversion and critique it I'd be EXTREMELY 
appreciative - I'm not schooled in mechanical drawing (I work for a dreaded 
architect...) so anything that doesn't make sense being pointed out would be 
very helpful.  I borrowed Solid Works licenses from my brother's company and 
taught myself to model the parts in there as opposed to solids in Autocad which 
made it much easier and then used the standard tools to label and dimension, 
etc.

I can take HARSH criticism so flame away!  These documents are 100% public 
domain - everything I learned to design the conversion was garnered from 
information shared here, on CNCzone.com and elsewhere so this is my attempt to 
give back to the community - and on a mailing list for a GPL software package 
seems the optimal place to ask for some input - also is there is somebody who 
is familiar with the details of GNU GPL let me know if referencing the intent 
on these documents as I did is appropriate or not.  I was in a rush to get 
these out to the community by my promised end of July deadline and license was 
the least important thing so I kind of winged it.

Come to think of it - I forgot to plug EMC2 in the introduction section - guess 
I can start revision 2...

Thanks again.

Greg Michalski
www.distinctperspectives.com-
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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline

[Ray Henry]

M2CW  Nothing wrong with your question.  No foul in the replies.  We
need a little heat once in a while.  It tends to clarify things and you
asked for clarification.  Many other in the list are looking for the
same info.  We are really fortunate that we have as many choices as we
do.

Rayh



On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 14:52 -0400, Sergey Izvoztchikov wrote:
> Thanks for all replays. I definitely didn't mean to sparkle any
> flame wars, sorry. It's reckless noob question, I probably shouldn't
> have asked. If others still want to voice their opinions, go ahead, 
> but I absolutely not want any flame wars over my post.
> 
> I guess I just needed some support to deal with my struggle. I
> think I've got it. Thanks again to all replays.


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Re: [Emc-users] RTAPI recent fix?

[John Figie]

You can change the default selection by editing the file /boot/grub/menu.lst   
There are comments in the file that tell you what to change.

sam sokolik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You probably need to pick the realtime 
kernal from the grub menu at bootup. 
If you installed ubuntu - then the hardy script..  the order of kernels will 
be wrong and the default ubuntu kernal will be selected.  You will need to 
do some searching on how to change the order.  (I have not done it before)

sam
- Original Message - 
From: "Jack" 
To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:47 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] RTAPI recent fix?


>I saw some post that there was a fix with the RTAPI or something.
>
> Today I installed 8.04 from the Ubuntu distribution CD, installed all the
> updates, then ran emc2-install.sh from
> http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh
> And rebooted a couple of times along the way.
>
> But when I try to start the latency-test I get all kinds of messages
> basically indicating
> that the RT stuff isn't there.
>
> Has there been some 'recent fix' or something? ... Thanks, Jack
>
> --
> "Predictions Are Difficult.Especially When They Are About The Future"
>   Niels Bohr
>
>
> -
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> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1578 - Release Date: 7/28/2008 
> 5:13 PM
>
>
> 


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John Figie-
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Re: [Emc-users] RTAPI recent fix?

[sam sokolik]

You probably need to pick the realtime kernal from the grub menu at bootup. 
If you installed ubuntu - then the hardy script..  the order of kernels will 
be wrong and the default ubuntu kernal will be selected.  You will need to 
do some searching on how to change the order.  (I have not done it before)

sam
- Original Message - 
From: "Jack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:47 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] RTAPI recent fix?


>I saw some post that there was a fix with the RTAPI or something.
>
> Today I installed 8.04 from the Ubuntu distribution CD, installed all the
> updates, then ran emc2-install.sh from
> http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh
> And rebooted a couple of times along the way.
>
> But when I try to start the latency-test I get all kinds of messages
> basically indicating
> that the RT stuff isn't there.
>
> Has there been some 'recent fix' or something? ... Thanks, Jack
>
> --
> "Predictions Are Difficult.Especially When They Are About The Future"
>   Niels Bohr
>
>
> -
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's 
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great 
> prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the 
> world
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> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1578 - Release Date: 7/28/2008 
> 5:13 PM
>
>
> 


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[Emc-users] RTAPI recent fix?

[Jack]

I saw some post that there was a fix with the RTAPI or something.

Today I installed 8.04 from the Ubuntu distribution CD, installed all the 
updates, then ran emc2-install.sh from
http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh
And rebooted a couple of times along the way.

But when I try to start the latency-test I get all kinds of messages
basically indicating
that the RT stuff isn't there.

Has there been some 'recent fix' or something? ... Thanks, Jack

--
 "Predictions Are Difficult.Especially When They Are About The Future"
   Niels Bohr


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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[Leslie Newell]

I do this on my lathe. I use a LED/sensor out of an old ball mouse with 
a semicircular flag on the motor that is about 1.5" diameter. The output 
of the sensor is open collector(switches to ground). This is in parallel 
with the home switch. The home switch is normally closed.

Homing proceeds as follows:
While the axis approaches home, the home switch holds the input low.
When the axis is nearly at home the home switch releases but the flag is 
phased so that the sensor holds the input low.
Finally the edge of the flag interrupts the beam so the input goes high.

If I home slowly, I get repeatability within +/- 1 encoder count (this 
is a servo machine but the encoder does not have an index).

Les

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> I have thought about this, but I wonder how accurate these are. If you
> want to resolve .0002", I think you typically need angular accuracy
> to .16 degrees. I guess I could try it to find out.
>   


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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline Mill ?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:21 AM 7/28/2008, you wrote:
>I am a "servo bigot", and just don't want to do anything like
>machining metal while "flying blind", which is how I think of
>stepper systems.
>
>Jon

Personally I would go one step farther. I want torque or velocity mode 
system and not a position mode (step/dir) motion control system.  With the 
position mode system be it a stepper or a servo with a step/dir driver the 
motion control loop is just assuming that the hardware is keeping up.  Even 
if the driver outputs a following error signal and it is connected back to 
the motion controller it is generally just a digital signal so it cannot 
know when it is getting close, it only knows after the error has been tripped.

Steppers have there place, but if you have to put a bunch of stuff 
(anti-resonance circuits, micro stepping, no motion power down etc.) into 
the controller to get one to work like a servo motor why not just use a motor.

__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline

[Sergey Izvoztchikov]

Thanks for all replays. I definitely didn't mean to sparkle any
flame wars, sorry. It's reckless noob question, I probably shouldn't
have asked. If others still want to voice their opinions, go ahead, 
but I absolutely not want any flame wars over my post.

I guess I just needed some support to deal with my struggle. I
think I've got it. Thanks again to all replays.



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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline

[Ron Ginger]

> I am a "servo bigot", and just don't want to do anything like 
> machining metal while "flying blind", which is how I think of 
> stepper systems.
> 
> Jon

I cant let this pass without a comment. As someone said earlier this is 
'holy war #1' in the CNC hobby.

It is a fact, not disputable, that thousands, maybe 10's of thousands, 
of large, even Bridgeport machines use steppers. They make parts every 
day, day after day and never loose a step.

It is clear that a stepper system will always cost less- assume the 
motors could be built for the same cost- they are similar lumps of wire, 
magnetic material and bearings. Assume the drive module could be built 
for the same cost, the servos will always require an encoder and extra 
logic for it. Servos always cost more- the IMserv kit for Sherline is 
over $1000, a Xylotex kit is about $400.

A stepper motor operated within its torque rating will never loose a 
step. If you overload it by trying to go to fast, or take to big a cut 
it could loose steps. I don't do that to my machines.

Servos are sensitive to failures of the encoder and its logic. The 
result of that is often a runaway motor crashing at full speed into its 
limit. Id rather have a machine loose a step or two than crash at high 
speed.

For a Sherline size machine steppers will work just fine. Use the rest 
of the money to buy a lathe or tooling for the mill.

clearly for large machines where the table motion needs over 300-400 
watts then servos are the only choice. Below that use steppers, simplify 
the machine and save your money.

ron ginger

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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[John Kasunich]

Kenneth Lerman wrote:
> Well, for the same cost, you can use the material differently and 
> instead of having a half circle, have two quarter circles and get twice 
> the resolution. Or, you could have four 1/8 circles ...
> 
> :-)
> 

As soon as you do that, you lose the index pulse.

Regards,

John Kasunich

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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[Kenneth Lerman]

Well, for the same cost, you can use the material differently and 
instead of having a half circle, have two quarter circles and get twice 
the resolution. Or, you could have four 1/8 circles ...

:-)

Ken

John Kasunich wrote:
> Kenneth Lerman wrote:
>> Jon Elson wrote:
>>> Kirk Wallace wrote:
 On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 00:33 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
 ... snip

> you might be 
> able to cobble up a substitute by making a disc with a narrow 
> slot and one of those U-shaped optical sensors from a floppy drive.
 I have thought about this, but I wonder how accurate these are. If you
 want to resolve .0002", I think you typically need angular accuracy
 to .16 degrees. I guess I could try it to find out.

>>> I came up with .36 degrees.  A good-sized disc with a 
>>> narrow-enough slot should work.  Basically, you are making a 
>>> 1000 line resolution encoder, but with only one line.
>> Is that true? Since you always approach the home position in the same 
>> direction, the width of the slot shouldn't matter at all. You should 
>> just be looking at the leading edge.
>>
>> Ken
>>
> 
> Exactly - which leads to another interesting possibility.  If you make a 
> disk that is as close as possible to 180 degrees "on" and 180 degrees 
> "off", you can mount two sensors at 90 degrees to each other.  The 
> result is a quadrature signal, with four counts per rev.  Since each 
> sensor still has only one rising edge per rotation, either sensor can be 
> used as the index.  (You would only need two hardware inputs, one of 
> which would be split in HAL to drive both phase A and the index of the 
> encoder, the other would drive phase B).
> 
> This would be a great candidate for a cheap lathe threading encoder. 
> The CVS version of EMC2 can use a single pulse per rev encoder for 
> threading, but this simple 4 count quadrature encoder would provide 
> about 16x better performance during load induced speed changes, for very 
> little extra cost.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John Kasunich
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Kenneth Lerman
Mark Kenny Products Company, LLC
55 Main Street
Newtown, CT 06470
888-ISO-SEVO
203-426-7166

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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[John Kasunich]

Kenneth Lerman wrote:
> 
> Jon Elson wrote:
>> Kirk Wallace wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 00:33 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> ... snip
>>>
 you might be 
 able to cobble up a substitute by making a disc with a narrow 
 slot and one of those U-shaped optical sensors from a floppy drive.
>>> I have thought about this, but I wonder how accurate these are. If you
>>> want to resolve .0002", I think you typically need angular accuracy
>>> to .16 degrees. I guess I could try it to find out.
>>>
>> I came up with .36 degrees.  A good-sized disc with a 
>> narrow-enough slot should work.  Basically, you are making a 
>> 1000 line resolution encoder, but with only one line.
> 
> Is that true? Since you always approach the home position in the same 
> direction, the width of the slot shouldn't matter at all. You should 
> just be looking at the leading edge.
> 
> Ken
> 

Exactly - which leads to another interesting possibility.  If you make a 
disk that is as close as possible to 180 degrees "on" and 180 degrees 
"off", you can mount two sensors at 90 degrees to each other.  The 
result is a quadrature signal, with four counts per rev.  Since each 
sensor still has only one rising edge per rotation, either sensor can be 
used as the index.  (You would only need two hardware inputs, one of 
which would be split in HAL to drive both phase A and the index of the 
encoder, the other would drive phase B).

This would be a great candidate for a cheap lathe threading encoder. 
The CVS version of EMC2 can use a single pulse per rev encoder for 
threading, but this simple 4 count quadrature encoder would provide 
about 16x better performance during load induced speed changes, for very 
little extra cost.

Regards,

John Kasunich



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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[Kenneth Lerman]

Jon Elson wrote:
> Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 00:33 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
>> ... snip
>>
>>> you might be 
>>> able to cobble up a substitute by making a disc with a narrow 
>>> slot and one of those U-shaped optical sensors from a floppy drive.
>>
>> I have thought about this, but I wonder how accurate these are. If you
>> want to resolve .0002", I think you typically need angular accuracy
>> to .16 degrees. I guess I could try it to find out.
>>
> I came up with .36 degrees.  A good-sized disc with a 
> narrow-enough slot should work.  Basically, you are making a 
> 1000 line resolution encoder, but with only one line.

Is that true? Since you always approach the home position in the same 
direction, the width of the slot shouldn't matter at all. You should 
just be looking at the leading edge.

Ken

> 
> Jon
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[Kirk Wallace]

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 11:26 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
> Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 00:33 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
> > ... snip
> > 
> >>you might be 
> >>able to cobble up a substitute by making a disc with a narrow 
> >>slot and one of those U-shaped optical sensors from a floppy drive.
> > 
> > 
> > I have thought about this, but I wonder how accurate these are. If you
> > want to resolve .0002", I think you typically need angular accuracy
> > to .16 degrees. I guess I could try it to find out.
> > 
> I came up with .36 degrees.  A good-sized disc with a 
> narrow-enough slot should work.  Basically, you are making a 
> 1000 line resolution encoder, but with only one line.
> 
> Jon

Oops. I meant half of .36 which is .18, but really, the more I think
about it, the important bit is how consistent sensing one edge is.

-- 
Kirk Wallace (California, USA
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
Zubal lathe conversion pending
Craftsman AA 109 restoration
Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)


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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[Jon Elson]

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 00:33 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
> ... snip
> 
>>you might be 
>>able to cobble up a substitute by making a disc with a narrow 
>>slot and one of those U-shaped optical sensors from a floppy drive.
> 
> 
> I have thought about this, but I wonder how accurate these are. If you
> want to resolve .0002", I think you typically need angular accuracy
> to .16 degrees. I guess I could try it to find out.
> 
I came up with .36 degrees.  A good-sized disc with a 
narrow-enough slot should work.  Basically, you are making a 
1000 line resolution encoder, but with only one line.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline Mill ?

[Jon Elson]

Sergey Izvoztchikov wrote:
> I'm faced with dilemma, which has no obvious answer for me at the 
> moment. I was set to buy Xylotex steppers based kit for my CNC Sherline 
> Mill. After reading more about servo based systems I'm divided, I could 
> appreciate number of advantages of servo based systems 
> 
> - no missed steps, corrections via closed loop
> - faster movement speeds, more IPS
> - positions display (DRO)
> 
> However, stepper systems are cheaper and basically ready out of the box
> compare to DIY servo based system, which would require significant 
> build and setup time. Note, I don't have funds for commercial out of the
> box servo based kit. So, DIY is preferred option.
> 
> I don't know exactly what kind of work I will do on my CNC Mill in the 
> future, so it's also hard to target setup to future work. I guess I'm 
> trying to decide is it worth the effort and money to build a "better" 
> system (servo based that is) or should I not bother for such a small 
> Mill as Sherline and go with steppers just fine ?
> 
> Any pros and cons of both type of systems are welcome, especially in 
> relation to usage on Sherline Mills/Lathes.
I wish my source of the Japan Servo servo motors still had 
stock, but they are all gone.  I sold a bunch of them for 
retrofits of Sherline and Taig machines, and have them on my 
minimill, as well.  If you can find some Pittman motors with 
encoders, those would also work.  (I got some Pittman 4443 
brushless servos that are REALLY nice, but at $200 each, I don't 
think I'll be selling these in the hobbyist market.)
You can see what turns up on eBay.  A size 16 or 23 motor with a 
4:1 belt reduction will do great.

I am a "servo bigot", and just don't want to do anything like 
machining metal while "flying blind", which is how I think of 
stepper systems.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Disabling Sound for Increased performance.

[Kirk Wallace]

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 07:31 -0500, Emory Smith wrote:
... snip
> As a side note, over the weekend I was playing with an SMC USB
> wireless dongle. 'iwlist wlan0 scanning' showed -92 to my neighbor's
> wlan. I cut a hole ~91mm from the bottom of a Pringles can and put the
> dongle ~31mm into the can and got -82! And I'd been poo-pooing the
> Pringles can stories on the internet!
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the unintended reminder about the biquad,
> Emory

Try some foil or soda can material in a parabolic shape with the USB
dongle at the focus, or just about any reflector shape. I used this in a
trash bag for a couple of years, but I had to change out the bag every
few months.

-- 
Kirk Wallace (California, USA
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
Zubal lathe conversion pending
Craftsman AA 109 restoration
Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)


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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline Mill ?

[Ray Henry]

Hi Sergey

I've set up both here for testing and have gotten a Sherline to rapid at
125 IPM.  The little leadscrews become a problem with whipping and
rather fast wearout.  For my money I'd set up steppers.  That will get
you into the world of CNC.  You shouldn't loose steps as long as you
keep the speeds below 80% of the speed at which you first see lost
steps.

I'm with you about wanting servos so if you've got the space look for an
older cnc machine with a dead control or retrofit one of the available
benchtop machines.

Rayh


On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 01:14 -0400, Sergey Izvoztchikov wrote:
> I'm faced with dilemma, which has no obvious answer for me at the 
> moment. I was set to buy Xylotex steppers based kit for my CNC Sherline 
> Mill. After reading more about servo based systems I'm divided, I could 
> appreciate number of advantages of servo based systems 
> 
> - no missed steps, corrections via closed loop
> - faster movement speeds, more IPS
> - positions display (DRO)
> 
> However, stepper systems are cheaper and basically ready out of the box
> compare to DIY servo based system, which would require significant 
> build and setup time. Note, I don't have funds for commercial out of the
> box servo based kit. So, DIY is preferred option.
> 
> I don't know exactly what kind of work I will do on my CNC Mill in the 
> future, so it's also hard to target setup to future work. I guess I'm 
> trying to decide is it worth the effort and money to build a "better" 
> system (servo based that is) or should I not bother for such a small 
> Mill as Sherline and go with steppers just fine ?
> 
> Any pros and cons of both type of systems are welcome, especially in 
> relation to usage on Sherline Mills/Lathes.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Disabling Sound for Increased performance.

[Emory Smith]

My EMC machine rarely needs internet connectivity so the flash drive works
fairly well for getting gcode into the machine. I'd much rather have a
network
connection to the machines in the house for doing that. And will have a
wired
connection eventually. As it turns out, I built a biquad a couple of years
ago and
had success with it (around 11 dB gain) but never put it to real use and
forgot it.
I'll see if I can find it and then find a connector/pigtail (the hard part)
that fits the
D-Link card in the EMC box.

As a side note, over the weekend I was playing with an SMC USB wireless
dongle.
'iwlist wlan0 scanning' showed -92 to my neighbor's wlan. I cut a hole ~91mm
from
the bottom of a Pringles can and put the dongle ~31mm into the can and got
-82!
And I'd been poo-pooing the Pringles can stories on the internet!

Anyway, thanks for the unintended reminder about the biquad,
Emory


>
>
> Personally, I could not live without a network connection on any PC.
> Just in case it might be helpful, I DIY these:
>
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/biquad/
> http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/
> http://www.trevormarshall.com/biquad.htm
>
> for point to point (and sector) connections at long distance (miles),
> even through walls (hundreds of yards). So weather tight enclosures are
> often not necessary. I use pretty much whatever is in the shop for
> materials.
>
> --
> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> Zubal lathe conversion pending
> Craftsman AA 109 restoration
> Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)
>
>
> -
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Re: [Emc-users] Axis Tool Table

[John Thornton]

Terry,

In the current release of EMC2 you have to add the editor to your ini file for 
that to 
work.

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gui_axis.html#r1_11_5

John


On 27 Jul 2008 at 21:06, Terry wrote:

> 
> 
> Why cant I get at my tool table from Axis but
> when I use the tkemc screen I can get at it.
> With Axis, the option is "grayed out"
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Terry
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline Mill ?

[Leslie Newell]

Hi Sergey,

IM Service do some nice servos that are ideally suited to  a Sherline 


They also do some nice  servo drivers though they are step/direction so 
you can't use the encoders as a DRO.

Steppers do work and can be reliable but they are slow. Basically you 
need to decide if the extra speed is worth the extra cost. I personally 
don't like steppers so I would go the servo route.

Les


Sergey Izvoztchikov wrote:
> I'm faced with dilemma, which has no obvious answer for me at the 
> moment. I was set to buy Xylotex steppers based kit for my CNC Sherline 
> Mill. After reading more about servo based systems I'm divided, I could 
> appreciate number of advantages of servo based systems 
>
> - no missed steps, corrections via closed loop
> - faster movement speeds, more IPS
> - positions display (DRO)
>
> However, stepper systems are cheaper and basically ready out of the box
> compare to DIY servo based system, which would require significant 
> build and setup time. Note, I don't have funds for commercial out of the
> box servo based kit. So, DIY is preferred option.
>
> I don't know exactly what kind of work I will do on my CNC Mill in the 
> future, so it's also hard to target setup to future work. I guess I'm 
> trying to decide is it worth the effort and money to build a "better" 
> system (servo based that is) or should I not bother for such a small 
> Mill as Sherline and go with steppers just fine ?
>
> Any pros and cons of both type of systems are welcome, especially in 
> relation to usage on Sherline Mills/Lathes.
>   


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Re: [Emc-users] Disabling Sound for Increased performance.

[acemi list]

For Debian based systems, install rcconf package and use rcconf
command as root to configure start up script.

On 7/28/08, Terry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dan
>
> Im with you on this one.I would like to see this happen.
> I wish I knew how to do what you described.
>
> Terry
>
>
> On Fri Jul 25  4:08 , Organic Engines <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>  After a whole bunch of thought it occurred to me that sound is
>>essentially real time and probably a resource hog.
>>
>>  Any reason not to unload all those alsa, oss, snd and etc modules?
>>
>>  Ultimately network, printing, bluetooth and other stuff can go once
>>your system is working.
>>
>>  The idea is getting toward what would be essentially an embedded
>>system. No fluff to distract your pc from doing it's machine control job.
>>
>>Dan
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Limit Switches

[Kirk Wallace]

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 00:33 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
... snip
> you might be 
> able to cobble up a substitute by making a disc with a narrow 
> slot and one of those U-shaped optical sensors from a floppy drive.

I have thought about this, but I wonder how accurate these are. If you
want to resolve .0002", I think you typically need angular accuracy
to .16 degrees. I guess I could try it to find out.

> I have used encoders with index pulses, and the machine will 
> home to far greater repeatability than I can produce with an 
> edge finder.  Presumably, it is homing to a precisely repeatable 
> encoder count, which on my Bridgeport is .5"  (50 u-inch).
> I can barely attempt to measure that with a Federal Maxxum 
> electronic indicator, but the various flexes and stictions in 
> the machone's ways produce more un-repeatability than that.

My Hall home sensors and encoder index (like Jons, I think) work very
well.

> So, presumably, I could re-index to a fixture on the machine the 
> next day, but I never trusted it enough to do it without at 
> least checking with an edge finder or coax indicator.
> 
> Jon

On my Shizuoka mill with steppers, I have a piece of tape on the ways
that I align, then very slowly jog to zero the dials and click Home. My
steps are .0005" each, so my home will be anywhere within .0005", which
is okay for most of my work. But it's kind of a bother, considering EMC
could home automatically with a click, if I had an encoder index.

-- 
Kirk Wallace (California, USA
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
Zubal lathe conversion pending
Craftsman AA 109 restoration
Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)


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