Re: [Emc-users] Switching to Vesa Driver

2009-04-28 Thread Mark Wendt (Contractor)
At 02:36 PM 4/27/2009, you wrote:
Another Day in the EMC Noob Shop

I got all set up and started EMC just to see it fail.
No real error message. Just that every process is terminating nicely
and that everything is being cleaned up. I fished around for a while
using my newly acquired trouble shooting skill set haha. And I found
the problem It is a really bad idea to go and have a space in the
config name. G. 'Rainers Taig' quickly became 'Rainers_Taig' and
all ran of the bat. Motors turning and all. Now I have to work and
after that I will calibrate all. Next thing is a pendant... I want to
route in luxury...
R

Ah, you Winders guys...  ;-)  I cut my computer teeth on VMS and 
Unix, and now, even on Winders machines I still underscore between 
words in file names.  I suppose you could always enclose the file 
name in double quotes to manipulate it, depending on the shell you are using.

Mark 


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Re: [Emc-users] Good eBay Find?

2009-04-28 Thread Gene Heskett
On Monday 27 April 2009, Kirk Wallace wrote:
I don't know enough about EDM. Does this look like a good EMC2 project?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=170321678813

Auction closed now.  I don't think I'd want to put $500 into it since edm can 
be done, although non-automatically for under a $100 bill, I've done it 
several times here.  Last time I needed 4 holes in a 10 saw blade to mount it 
on my rotary table and use emc to sharpen it.  Drill bits just bounced off its 
chrome plated side surfaces.  I grabbed a caulking gun, the rim from a plastic 
spool of teflon tape, coated the rim with caulk, set it down on the saw blade 
 poured it full of kerosene.  Ground on a length of 1/4 brass pipe in the 
mills chuck, hot on the blade mounted on wood.  Supply is a pair of $7 36 volt 
transformers, secondaries in series feeding a full wave bridge, the bridge 
feeding through a 50 ohm 200 watt resistor, with a 10 uf paper capacitor as 
the discharge storage capacitor.  Set z down till it gets real noisy and start 
the spindle at about 100 rpm, feed at about .015 minute.  The kero will 
blacken rapidly, but you can hear the progress.  For younger ears, a set of 
gun mufflers might be in order, that 10 uf is NOISY when it fires.  Smaller 
cap would be nice and quieter but that is what was in the junk box at the 
Heskett Ranchette.  As the blade was a thin kerf blade, about 6 or 7 minutes a 
hole.  Nice, very neat holes that cleared a 1/4 bolt about .005.

Did anyone ever come up with a method to automate the feed via emc for this?
 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Re: [Emc-users] Uses for a defunct UPS. [Was: Re: picoPSU needs low?ESR filter caps?]

2009-04-28 Thread Erik Christiansen
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 03:24:49PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
 IIRC there are 4 6 volt gel cell packs in it, 24 volts.  This one is a
 big old honk and 6 years old at least. I have replaced the batteries
 and blown the dirt out of the fans  case several times, but it just
 plain runs too darned hot for gel cells and they expire in about a
 year, at $225 a set.

1500 VA is plenty to pull out of 24v. With four times the losses of a
48v inverter, it has to run hotter. But I don't think I'm delivering any
news there. :-) It won't take long to pay for a new one, just on the
battery savings.

 [1] I'll heed your admonition about catastrophic capacitor failure. :-)
 
 Its not the caps that fail, its all the other stuff that can't take
 the surges when the esr on them goes to hell.

Ah, oh, hmmm ..., I'd better put together that little esr meter then,
because I found a bank of 2700 µF 80v capacitors in a retired SMPS. I
thought that if the esr is OK, I'll use them in the supply to drive at
least one axis.

I spent several hours last night, hunting the web for low esr
electrolytics here in Australia, but found nothing over 470µF in 80v.
There's 15,000 µF 63v, but using them at 50v seems cutting it too fine.
(At Siemens we weren't allowed to use electrolytics above half their
rated voltage, and 2/3 of rated temperature, IIRC.)

Maybe I can find some in the US. (I don't think they're a good item to
buy on ebay, though.)

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Good eBay Find?

2009-04-28 Thread Dave Engvall

On Apr 28, 2009, at 5:31 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

 On Monday 27 April 2009, Kirk Wallace wrote:
 I don't know enough about EDM. Does this look like a good EMC2  
 project?
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=170321678813

 Auction closed now.  I don't think I'd want to put $500 into it  
 since edm can
 be done, although non-automatically for under a $100 bill, I've  
 done it
 several times here.
snip
 Did anyone ever come up with a method to automate the feed via emc  
 for this?

As for gap  Pete will tell you that when it sounds like frying  
bacon it is just right.

A few years ago Pete Gruendeman , gruendeman AT att.net, brought a  
sinker edm to fest.
Nice RC unit including a C axis so he could thread. A 1/4-20 thread  
in a file is pretty cute.
It used a custom program written in compiled Basic under DOS.  The  
gap sensor was a
couple  couple of comparators. The Z was driven by a stepper/servo.
He planned to use parallel springs to hang a small X/Y (+- 0.01) for  
orbiting.
Don't know if he ever got it finished.



Steve Stallings may know the status of this project.

Dave

 -- 
 Cheers, Gene
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  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 I can't drive 55.


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Re: [Emc-users] Switching to Vesa Driver

2009-04-28 Thread Rainer Schmidt
I'm a UNIX guy and actually do not use spaces in anything. But if I
have an input field, then I rely on the validation of the input.
Stepconf allows the space in a profile name but subsequently fails to
fix that up or reject it for later use as filename. I always found VMS
to be the simplest OS. Also very stable. We had a server problem with
a memory leak. No sources... so no way to fix that. We used a cheap
electrical timer which pulled the plug every morning at 2am and
restored power at 2:30. Over 5 years there has been no problem with
that. Then the box became obsolete. I think they buried it next to
it's trusty timer in the local landfill... sni good times

Btw what happens when that dreaded 'unexpected realtime blabla'
happens and it's ignored. Rough running? Steps missed? All seems to be
running good now. My little Taig Mill runs WAY faster now without any
hickups or rough running compared to the comparably crappy performance
under Mach3. Really nice. Can't wait to confirm the moves with a
micrometer and then cut something cool on it.

Cheers
Rainer

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Mark Wendt (Contractor)
mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote:
 At 02:36 PM 4/27/2009, you wrote:
Another Day in the EMC Noob Shop

I got all set up and started EMC just to see it fail.
No real error message. Just that every process is terminating nicely
and that everything is being cleaned up. I fished around for a while
using my newly acquired trouble shooting skill set haha. And I found
the problem It is a really bad idea to go and have a space in the
config name. G. 'Rainers Taig' quickly became 'Rainers_Taig' and
all ran of the bat. Motors turning and all. Now I have to work and
after that I will calibrate all. Next thing is a pendant... I want to
route in luxury...
R

 Ah, you Winders guys...  ;-)  I cut my computer teeth on VMS and
 Unix, and now, even on Winders machines I still underscore between
 words in file names.  I suppose you could always enclose the file
 name in double quotes to manipulate it, depending on the shell you are using.

 Mark


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FAX (646)-435-9216

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[Emc-users] AXIS window size?

2009-04-28 Thread John Guenther
Is it possible to resize the axis window to something under 800 x 600?
The reason I am asking is my shop display by necessity is a 10.4 inch
LCD touch screen.  I can display resolutions higher that its native
800x600 resolution but they are not always acceptable.  I have tried the
usual methods of resizing the axis window but it will only go down to
599 for a height and that does not work too will with the standard
ubuntu windows.  

Any help or input will be greatly appreciated.
-  
John Guenther
'Ye Olde Pen Maker'
Sterling, Virginia



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Re: [Emc-users] AXIS window size?

2009-04-28 Thread Chris Radek
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 01:50:53PM -0400, John Guenther wrote:
 Is it possible to resize the axis window to something under 800 x 600?
 The reason I am asking is my shop display by necessity is a 10.4 inch
 LCD touch screen.  I can display resolutions higher that its native
 800x600 resolution but they are not always acceptable.  I have tried the
 usual methods of resizing the axis window but it will only go down to
 599 for a height and that does not work too will with the standard
 ubuntu windows.  

Hm, I thought it worked ok on 800x600 still.  What version of EMC and
Ubuntu?

It may help to reduce your screen DPI.  Try setting it to 75 if the
X server guessed something higher.  On my Dapper system this is
under system / preferences / font / details.


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Re: [Emc-users] AXIS window size?

2009-04-28 Thread John Guenther
Hi Chris,

I will try that.  This system is a Hardy system with 2.3 installed.
-  
John Guenther
'Ye Olde Pen Maker'
Sterling, Virginia


On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 13:21 -0500, Chris Radek wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 01:50:53PM -0400, John Guenther wrote:
  Is it possible to resize the axis window to something under 800 x 600?
  The reason I am asking is my shop display by necessity is a 10.4 inch
  LCD touch screen.  I can display resolutions higher that its native
  800x600 resolution but they are not always acceptable.  I have tried the
  usual methods of resizing the axis window but it will only go down to
  599 for a height and that does not work too will with the standard
  ubuntu windows.  
 
 Hm, I thought it worked ok on 800x600 still.  What version of EMC and
 Ubuntu?
 
 It may help to reduce your screen DPI.  Try setting it to 75 if the
 X server guessed something higher.  On my Dapper system this is
 under system / preferences / font / details.
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] AXIS window size?

2009-04-28 Thread John Guenther
Chris,

Ok. I just tried that on my Dapper system with 2.3 installed.  EMC2
started up using axis with an 875x601 window even though the display is
set for 800x600.  This does have the pyvcp spindle speed panel
configured in.  I have the screen DPI set for 75, it was 96 when I first
checked it.  
-  
John Guenther
'Ye Olde Pen Maker'
Sterling, Virginia


On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 13:21 -0500, Chris Radek wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 01:50:53PM -0400, John Guenther wrote:
  Is it possible to resize the axis window to something under 800 x 600?
  The reason I am asking is my shop display by necessity is a 10.4 inch
  LCD touch screen.  I can display resolutions higher that its native
  800x600 resolution but they are not always acceptable.  I have tried the
  usual methods of resizing the axis window but it will only go down to
  599 for a height and that does not work too will with the standard
  ubuntu windows.  
 
 Hm, I thought it worked ok on 800x600 still.  What version of EMC and
 Ubuntu?
 
 It may help to reduce your screen DPI.  Try setting it to 75 if the
 X server guessed something higher.  On my Dapper system this is
 under system / preferences / font / details.
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Units and Touch Off Feature

2009-04-28 Thread Steve Blackmore
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:11:20 -0500, you wrote:

 Also, the tool table always follows the .ini file units. I wonder if
 being able to list inch or mm with the data would be better? Then the
 data could be converted automatically to what is needed.

This is not such an easy addition as Touch Off, unfortunately.

And not one you should alter ;)

It's normal for lathe tool offsets and tables to be in absolute native
machine units and they should never alter.

If you are setting a tool length, the tool table values ALWAYS stays in
radius mode, NEVER diameter mode, the conversion is done in CAM and
the program controller display.

Anything other than that will royally screw up diameter mode CAM
produced code.

Steve Blackmore
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[Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread Tom
Hi all,

I finally got my CNC4PC 6 axis pendant set up to jog 3 axis, plus feed  
spindle override in Emc2_2.3.0 / Axis. I am using the ilowpass filter to de-
jitter the raw jog counts, and it is working quite well.

This was not an entirely happy experience. The roughly $200.00 pendant  
Parallel port interface is a Chinese product with Chinglish documentation 
and as such, requires a lot of reverse engineering to get things working. 

MP6 pendant:
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=40products_id=162

The biggest issue is that although the web page above states that the pendant 
is a 6 axis pendant, it is not in fact what they say it is. The pendant that I 
received from them has only 4 axes that are wired, and 3 wires that are cut 
inside the pendant. The axis selector rotary switch has one extra position that 
can be jumper/soldered to one of the extra wires. I used the pink/black wire to 
do this. The advertised 6th axis position does not even exist on the rotary 
switch.

After connecting the pink/black wire to the 5th axis output on the back of the 
rotary switch  checking with a continuity meter, I then moved that wire from 
pin 19 to pin 18 on the back of the DB25 connector attached to the end of the 
cable on the pendant and checked it again. I found that after plugging it into 
the C22 P-port adapter, the signal then appears on pin 12 of the Parallel port 
going into the computer. All the other signals appear as documented on the 
seller's web. 

C22 adapter:
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=40products_id=159

The halui spindle/feed override function now includes an enable input which 
makes activating/deactivating those functions using the selector switch a no-
brainer (thanks guys!). Here is a link to my pendant.hal file:

http://www.foxpointdesign.com/cnc_stuff/pendant.hal

You must add to the [HAL] section of your ini file this statement to enable the 
halui pins/functions:

HALUI = halui

and since my pendant.hal file is separate:

HALFILE = pendant.hal


To allow the overrides some range to function, I also add to the ini:

MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = 1.5
MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE =  1.5

Any comments or corrections before adding to the wiki would be welcome!

Tom









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Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread Tom
OH... and I forgot to mention that 4 of the 6 screw attachment threaded holes 
that are used to hold the 2 halves of the plastic case together were split. 
This seems typical of plastic resins used in China (Harbor Freight?!*)

Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] Good eBay Find?

2009-04-28 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 28 April 2009, Dave Engvall wrote:
On Apr 28, 2009, at 5:31 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Monday 27 April 2009, Kirk Wallace wrote:
 I don't know enough about EDM. Does this look like a good EMC2
 project?
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=170321678813

 Auction closed now.  I don't think I'd want to put $500 into it
 since edm can
 be done, although non-automatically for under a $100 bill, I've
 done it
 several times here.

snip

 Did anyone ever come up with a method to automate the feed via emc
 for this?

As for gap  Pete will tell you that when it sounds like frying
bacon it is just right.

As was my judgement, but a 10uf cap at 75 volts  3 or 4 amps is noisy!  Even 
my 74 year old ears were complaining.  Very loud bacon. :)

A few years ago Pete Gruendeman , gruendeman AT att.net, brought a
sinker edm to fest.
Nice RC unit including a C axis so he could thread. A 1/4-20 thread
in a file is pretty cute.

What would you use for electrode?  Keeping that tip sharp enough to reach the 
bottom of the thread seems to look like a major problem to me.  I'd assume 
that a much smaller cap than my 10uf would also give a smoother surface?

Does Pete by chance have a web page?

It used a custom program written in compiled Basic under DOS.  The
gap sensor was a
couple  couple of comparators. The Z was driven by a stepper/servo.
He planned to use parallel springs to hang a small X/Y (+- 0.01) for
orbiting.

I just turn the spindle on at lazy rpms, my ground connection is just the 
wire, spread around the tubing and twisted on the other side, propped up to 
stay out of the way.  It polishes the tubing.  Just enough run-out in hobby 
brass tubing to work rather nicely, and shorts seem to be self clearing after 
a couple of turns if I just stop the z and let it set still turning.

I assume he was watching the peak and average voltages?  With a 20 volt band 
gap, high starts the stepper at whatever speed its set at, and a low average 
stops it.  Let the rotation clear a short by stirring in fresh dielectric 
fluid.  If I did it often enough (once a year doesn't meet my definition of 
'often enough') I'd see what I could come up with for hardware.

Don't know if he ever got it finished.

Steve Stallings may know the status of this project.

Dave

Thanks Dave.

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There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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netgod Feanor: u have no idea of the depth of the stupidty of american law


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[Emc-users] Fest motels

2009-04-28 Thread Stuart Stevenson
Gentlemen,
   I drove around Wichita today to find a good cheap motel. I found
one. It is clean and nice.

First choice is

Western Holiday
8925 W. Kellogg
Wichita, Ks. 67209
316 722 4241

easy location to/from shop
should have plenty of rooms for all if reserved soon enough
limited qty nonsmoking
internet
smoking and nonsmoking
bar and grill
33.00 + tax single non
42.00 + tax double non

Second choice is

Sunset Motel
2328 S. Broadway
Wichita, Ks. 67211
316 264 0509

easy location to/from shop
limited number of rooms
limited qty nonsmoking
clean
internet
$30.00 tax included single
call for double rates if needed

There are quite a number of motels at this rate.
Until today I had never seen a motel in the United States that rates
negative STARS to the rating system.
I have now. :)
I am sure the others are between these.

All will negotiate a multi-night discount.
Some more than others

thanks
Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread Rainer Schmidt
Thanks for the heads up and the sharing. I was looking at a pendant
and might opt for a self build when you have to fight with all the
stuff in any case The quality of Chinese stuff is a real problem.
Money for nothing.
Again thanks a LOT
Rainer

PS;I would LOVE to have that Pendant running which I have on Mach3.
But that's USB

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Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread John Thornton
If the pendant can be seen by the system it can be used I 
assume as one would use a usb joy pad...

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant

John

On 28 Apr 2009 at 19:14, Rainer Schmidt wrote:

 Thanks for the heads up and the sharing. I was looking at a
 pendant
 and might opt for a self build when you have to fight with all the
 stuff in any case The quality of Chinese stuff is a real
 problem.
 Money for nothing.
 Again thanks a LOT
 Rainer
 
 PS;I would LOVE to have that Pendant running which I have on
 Mach3.
 But that's USB
 
 
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 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
 



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[Emc-users] A heads up on the Griffin

2009-04-28 Thread Gene Heskett
Greetings all;

I'm on the xorg mailing list too, and it appears from the messages I'm seeing, 
that some update to evdev seems to have killed all the powermates.  I put in a 
squawk that in that event, there were gonna be some unhappy machinists who 
were using it for gainful endeavors, cuz I know there are some of you who are 
using it for freehand stuff.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, which, when
you looked at it in the right way, did not become still more complicated.
-- Poul Anderson


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Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread Roger
John Thornton jet1...@... writes:

 
 If the pendant can be seen by the system it can be used I 
 assume as one would use a usb joy pad...
 
 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
 

John,
I thought I had read on this list that the USB Shuttle Pro, which is an
amazing less than $100 pendant when used with Mach3, didn't play well with EMC.
It may have had to do with Linux not passing along zero crossings or some such. 
The Shuttle has a number of buttons, an MPG and a velocity ring.

I hope my recollection is in error and the Shuttle works with EMC.

Roger
 





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Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread Jon Elson
Rainer Schmidt wrote:
 Thanks for the heads up and the sharing. I was looking at a pendant
 and might opt for a self build when you have to fight with all the
 stuff in any case The quality of Chinese stuff is a real problem.
   
Yeah, I fought that same battle when I set one up for Aram Kasparov at 
the 2008 CNC Workshop.
Also, the way it came, the red button disconnects the axis selector 
switch when you press it, which seemed backwards.
So, I moved a wire to connect the axis selector switch when the button 
was pressed.  So, you have to press the button for the jog dial to move 
anything.  I ignored the web site info and just traced the whole thing out.

I made my own jog pendants for both my Bridgeport and minimill.  I 
bought an HEDSS jog encoder from a Hong Kong (I think) seller on eBay 
for what I thought was a somewhat inflated price.  But, I couldn't find 
anything else, new or used, for a better price.  Then I used a pair of 
miniature rotary switches I had in my junk box.  I also have a jog 
enable button and an estop button.  I put those buttons where I can work 
them one-handed, while wrapping my thumb around to move the jog dial.  
Very convenient!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 28 April 2009, Jon Elson wrote:
Rainer Schmidt wrote:
 Thanks for the heads up and the sharing. I was looking at a pendant
 and might opt for a self build when you have to fight with all the
 stuff in any case The quality of Chinese stuff is a real problem.

Yeah, I fought that same battle when I set one up for Aram Kasparov at
the 2008 CNC Workshop.
Also, the way it came, the red button disconnects the axis selector
switch when you press it, which seemed backwards.
So, I moved a wire to connect the axis selector switch when the button
was pressed.  So, you have to press the button for the jog dial to move
anything.  I ignored the web site info and just traced the whole thing out.

I made my own jog pendants for both my Bridgeport and minimill.  I
bought an HEDSS jog encoder from a Hong Kong (I think) seller on eBay
for what I thought was a somewhat inflated price.  But, I couldn't find
anything else, new or used, for a better price.  Then I used a pair of
miniature rotary switches I had in my junk box.  I also have a jog
enable button and an estop button.  I put those buttons where I can work
them one-handed, while wrapping my thumb around to move the jog dial.
Very convenient!

Jon

Got links to pix, Jon?

-- 
Cheers, Gene
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Someone in DAYTON, Ohio is selling USED CARPETS to a SERBO-CROATIAN


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Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread Tom
Jon Elson el...@... writes:

snip...

 Also, the way it came, the red button disconnects the axis selector 
 switch when you press it, which seemed backwards.
 So, I moved a wire to connect the axis selector switch when the button 
 was pressed.  So, you have to press the button for the jog dial to move 
 anything.  I ignored the web site info and just traced the whole thing out.
 

Jon,

Um... I think you meant the white button, as I read in your original post. 
I found the same was true with my pendant. No apparent purpose in that. I need 
one hand to slip the gauge block under the tool, so I left it the way it was. 

I have 2 more unused wires in the cable so I could re-wire the white button for 
a momentary flood toggle or something. H.

regards,
Tom





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Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 C22 pendant

2009-04-28 Thread Rob Jansen
Jon,

same question as Gene. Pix would be nice.

I was thinking of buying one from stappenmotor.nl, they are charging 41 
EUR ex. VAT for a 60mm encoder. I did not even think about one-handed 
operation, sound very usefull though.
With a custom made (3D printed) housing from shapeways this will look as 
good (or better) as the mpg4 but with all the knobs and buttons at the 
right place for me.

Regards,

Rob


Links:

http://www.stappenmotor.nl/Steppermotor/incremental%20encoders/rotary%20incremental%20encoder/rotary%20encoders.htm
http://www.shapeways.com/

Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Tuesday 28 April 2009, Jon Elson wrote:
   
 Rainer Schmidt wrote:
 
 I made my own jog pendants for both my Bridgeport and minimill.  I
 ...
 enable button and an estop button.  I put those buttons where I can work
 them one-handed, while wrapping my thumb around to move the jog dial.
 Very convenient!

 Jon
 

 Got links to pix, Jon?

   

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