Re: [Emc-users] Non-invoked Program Stop, Re: .ngc file RFReview

[Kenneth Lerman]

You might consider putting an "emitter follower" circuit at the output 
of your circuit. The NPN Darlington configuration might be appropriate. 
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/ietron/darl.gif&imgrefurl=http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/emitfol.html&usg=__YsP5vDTSAyH1_LgPZsUd4Kj7csk=&h=256&w=248&sz=2&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=9O8nEjwky6glcM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Demitter%2Bfollower%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1

Ken

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 14:52 +1000, Frank Tkalcevic wrote:
>   
>>> (Other good news/bad news. I blew out the serialDAC, but had 
>>> a spare chip. I'm looking for advise on how to protect the 
>>> output op-amp:
>>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/serial_dac/ser
>>> ial_dac_sch.png 
>>>   
>
> Oops, looks like I missed the link wrap. Here is a short URL:
> http://preview.alturl.com/9qo4 
>
>   
>> I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for, but there was an example
>> circuit to opto-isolate analog outputs posted on the gecko yahoo group, in
>> Files/G100 and G101/G100 to VFD.zip.  It contains a pdf schematic, as well
>> as gerber files.  Full link here...
>>
>> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wEdESqlRISAvXS1kqNpUyHreATzPsS6fyvPYjIkwCrzxcP5
>> sN-O39ow1eZON1_k89sEXfl4jj18PJjRgWEkX-UyxFYezazMt/G100%20and%20G101/G100%20t
>> o%20VFD.zip
>> 
>
> Short URL here http://preview.alturl.com/8hm6
>
> Thanks for the link, Frank. I wish I were better at electronics, then I
> would know what this circuit does. It looks like the op-amps only have a
> 10kOhm resistor on their outputs, which would limit the current going in
> or out of the amp. This may offer current protection but maybe not
> enough voltage protection. I was thinking of putting a 12 volt Zener
> between the op-amp output and the output ground, but I don't know if
> that is a good idea or not. I suppose I could just try it and see what
> happens.
>
> It looks like the above circuit takes in an analog input, converts it to
> PWM or PDM, then back to analog on the far side of the opto-isolator. I
> wonder how fast it is? A VFD signal might not need to change quickly,
> but an analog axis servo would.
>
>   
>>> I also got my ATtiny2313 programmer and proto-board working, 
>>> but blew both 2313 chips I had on hand the first day, with no 
>>> gratuitous smoke either. I'm looking for a 2313 simulator 
>>> that will run on Ubuntu so I can test programs before I try 
>>> to program real chips.)
>>>   
>> I only know of AVRStudio for windows, but I find that it's simulation is
>> pretty ordinary.  I was simulating the 2313 a while back and it was missing
>> a timer.  Maybe it was just a bad install.
>> 
>
> I don't have any Windows machines so I would have to set up Wine to run
> AVRstudio, but it may be worth it, if I can save some burnt chips.
>
>   

-- 
Kenneth Lerman
Mark Kenny Products Company, LLC
55 Main Street
Newtown, CT 06470
888-ISO-SEVO
203-426-7166

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Re: [Emc-users] Non-invoked Program Stop, Re: .ngc file RFReview

[Kirk Wallace]

On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 08:36 -0400, Kenneth Lerman wrote:
> You might consider putting an "emitter follower" circuit at the output 
> of your circuit. The NPN Darlington configuration might be appropriate. 
> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/ietron/darl.gif&imgrefurl=http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/emitfol.html&usg=__YsP5vDTSAyH1_LgPZsUd4Kj7csk=&h=256&w=248&sz=2&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=9O8nEjwky6glcM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Demitter%2Bfollower%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1
> 
> Ken

I didn't think I needed a buffer because the LCT1257 can sink or source
60mA and the VFD control input has a high impedance, but now you have me
thinking that this may be a bad assumption. I need to figure out the VFD
control signal impedance and study the DAC to figure out what it will
actually drive. Either way, a 2n3904 is much less expensive than a DAC.
One concern is, how much error will be introduced? Although I guess when
I add a spindle encoder, the error will be corrected.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Tuning servomotors. Calibration

[a]

Hi
There are a lot of information about tune up ac servomotor. On internet in
many books. Problem is unless you have electrical engineering degree or
extended training in that are of science it is hard to implement those
information while working on EMC2.
Steps that I describe from book are not Z-N. That steps more generic type
as far I can see.
Many people that use EMC2 don’t have electrical engineer degrees or
special training and for them implementation of those generic info about
tune-up that on the internet and book will be problem.

What about instruction for tuning servomotor specifically adapted to EMC2
case?
Use EMC2 Hal Scope setting, Calibration window, etc
I think that type specific instruction will be much more helpful to
average EMC2 user.

aram


> 2009/6/25  :
>
>> Sequences 1-3 very clear.
>> Sequence 4 – means increase D until graph will be represent with line
>> and
>> not with line that has noise (vibration type).
>> Am I right here?
>> Sequence 5. What is mean instability? Is this same as an oscillation?
>
> Yes, exactly,
>
>> I know what oscillation means, but what instability is and how it will
>> be
>> represented on Hal Scope.
>
> In this context they are much the same thing, though perhaps different
> in detail. An oscillation is probably meant to describe a periodic and
> increasing failure to meet a  step change in the setpoint, and an
> instability might be random variations in a position when there is no
> change in setpoint.
>
> You seem to be describing Ziegler- Nichols tuning, and a google search
> on those words should help with more detail.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegler–Nichols_method as a starting point
>
> However, Z-N tuning is most effective for symmetric systems, you might
> still get better performance with hand tuning from those base points.
> My personal experience is "Beware of D" especially in any system with
> backlash.
>
> [Irrelevant detail] in my real job we run controllers where P I and D
> are themselves functions of other things, including noise factors such
> as fuel temperarature and simple factors such as distance from
> setpoint. PI and D are not the be-all and end-all of control, and if
> that is all you have then perfection (and indeed adequacy) might be
> unobtainable)
>
> --
> atp
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Non-invoked Program Stop, Re: .ngc file RFReview

[Andy Pugh]

2009/6/26 Kirk Wallace :

> Either way, a 2n3904 is much less expensive than a DAC.
> One concern is, how much error will be introduced?

If you use an Op-Amp as your buffer, then almost no error will be
introduced and you don't need any external components. They only cost
pennies, too. Just make sure you get a rail-to-rail one.
http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/OP-AMP/OP-AMP-1.html

-- 
atp

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[Emc-users] moving home

[pstenlund]

I've got my machine built and cutting (small signs, model parts). I'm using
X0, Y0, Z0 for home. I converted some DXF designs to gcode and they use the
center of the design for 0,0,0. I moved home to the center of the workpiece
but it won't move in the minus direction - exceeds minimum limits - run
anyway doesn't work - can't check they override limits box. Would offsets
be the answer ???


Paul Stenlund


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Re: [Emc-users] moving home

[Dave Engvall]

On Jun 26, 2009, at 11:17 AM, pstenl...@portoflongview.com wrote:

>
> I've got my machine built and cutting (small signs, model parts).  
> I'm using
> X0, Y0, Z0 for home. I converted some DXF designs to gcode and they  
> use the
> center of the design for 0,0,0. I moved home to the center of the  
> workpiece
> but it won't move in the minus direction - exceeds minimum limits -  
> run
> anyway doesn't work - can't check they override limits box. Would  
> offsets
> be the answer ???
>
>
> Paul Stenlund
>
IIRC there are two ways to  do this.
Offsets are easy and adjustable without having to edit the .ini.  
Assuming that your G54 zero is the lower left hand corner of the
bed simple set your X and Y offsets, in say G55, to X(length of bed)/ 
2 and Y(length of bed)/2.
If your home is someplace else then change the signs appropriately.

Also in the .ini file there should be, or you can add HOME_OFFSET or  
something close to that with the appropriate numbers.
Your mill should home to the switches then move rapidly to the home  
offset position in X and Y. I'm assuming you are happy with your
Z zero. If this doesn't make sense then consult the EMC user manual  
or the EMC integrator manual for greater detail.

HTH

Dave
>
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Re: [Emc-users] moving home

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 26 June 2009, pstenl...@portoflongview.com wrote:
>I've got my machine built and cutting (small signs, model parts). I'm using
>X0, Y0, Z0 for home. I converted some DXF designs to gcode and they use the
>center of the design for 0,0,0. I moved home to the center of the workpiece
>but it won't move in the minus direction - exceeds minimum limits - run
>anyway doesn't work - can't check they override limits box. Would offsets
>be the answer ???

I think I would just edit the .ini file, where you will find the plus and 
minus limits defined in a verse per axis.  I have mine defined wide enough 
that I can zero that axis up against either mechnical limit, and move to the 
opposite end.  Obviously I don't have power enough to damage things when I hit 
the mech limits, so all I lose is whatever zero I may have set when I hit it & 
go another few steps on the steppers, so I back it away till its free and zero 
it, or just locate it on the workpiece and zero it on whatever corner the code 
expects to be the zero point.

This obviously _won't_ work for bigger, capable of damaging itself machinery 
though.  There one really needs to have limit switches and use them. 

>Paul Stenlund
>
>
>
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"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.


Yes, but will I see the EASTER BUNNY in skintight leather at an IRON
MAIDEN concert?


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[Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I find I am in need of a bandsaw with at least 12.5" of resaw capability, and 
I'm reluctant to buy a Rikon 10-325 to get it as that will be circa a kilobuck 
by the time I fit it with a WoodSlicer blade, a mitre gauge, a pack of table 
inserts & pay the freight.

The only real candidate I can find on the net is a 24" SCIM, but its motor is 
a 2.4kw 3 phase, and 3 phase is not available on my street.

Does anyone know of such a beast?, used is ok unless its used up.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.


Bunker's Admonition:
You cannot buy beer; you can only rent it.


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[Emc-users] (Dutch) EMC for Dummies fest

[Rob Jansen]

Some time ago there were a few mails about an EMC Fest in Europe.
Just this week another Dutch EMC user (Dirk) sent me an email to trigger 
me about the silence about the European EMC Fest. We both feel the need 
to do something - even if it is just the two of us :-}

But I do not have that much EMC knowledge, nor a nice servo controlled 
mill to retrofit.
I see lots of CNC systems being developed that use one of the Windows 
(USBCNC, PCNC) programs.
Our idea is to host an EMC fest for ourselves (expanding and sharing our 
own knowledge) and to introduce EMC to those who are still looking for a 
controller.

I got a set of linear drive units with stepper controllers and also have 
a spare 5i20 card (and a 7i43 card) to use instead of the standard 
parport config.
So this winter, exact date still to be determined, we like to host an 
event, somewhere in the Netherlands, for guys like us.

If it's just Dirk and Me we will call it a mini Fest, if there are 5 
users it is an EMC for dummies fest, more than 20 we'll call a big 
succes ;-)

If anyone is interested, wants to join or even has a location (or more 
donor material), just reply via email.


Regards,

Rob

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Re: [Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[cmgfam]

I put my 20 inch Oliver on a VFD and absolutely love it!
Single phase in,  and three phase out with variable speed.  It's a direct
drive 860 RPM motor, so it runs smooth and quiet!


So Sweet.

Cal

>

 Greetings all;
>
> I find I am in need of a bandsaw with at least 12.5" of resaw capability,
> and
> I'm reluctant to buy a Rikon 10-325 to get it as that will be circa a
> kilobuck
> by the time I fit it with a WoodSlicer blade, a mitre gauge, a pack of
> table
> inserts & pay the freight.
>
> The only real candidate I can find on the net is a 24" SCIM, but its motor
> is
> a 2.4kw 3 phase, and 3 phase is not available on my street.
>
> Does anyone know of such a beast?, used is ok unless its used up.
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
> 
>
> Bunker's Admonition:
>   You cannot buy beer; you can only rent it.
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] (Dutch) EMC for Dummies fest

[Sven Wesley]

Weird, you are the second within a couple of days notifying me about the
Euro-EMC idea.
Yes, it was me who brought that up. Unfortunately there was too little
interest as very very very few who responded. I had a couple of good
locations on spot and even a machine that was free for play (ie, it could
have been EMCified). Maybe I'll make another trial shoot next year, around
spring or so. But right now it seems no idea and I have no time.

--S

2009/6/26 Rob Jansen 

> Some time ago there were a few mails about an EMC Fest in Europe.
> Just this week another Dutch EMC user (Dirk) sent me an email to trigger
> me about the silence about the European EMC Fest. We both feel the need
> to do something - even if it is just the two of us :-}
>
> But I do not have that much EMC knowledge, nor a nice servo controlled
> mill to retrofit.
> I see lots of CNC systems being developed that use one of the Windows
> (USBCNC, PCNC) programs.
> Our idea is to host an EMC fest for ourselves (expanding and sharing our
> own knowledge) and to introduce EMC to those who are still looking for a
> controller.
>
> I got a set of linear drive units with stepper controllers and also have
> a spare 5i20 card (and a 7i43 card) to use instead of the standard
> parport config.
> So this winter, exact date still to be determined, we like to host an
> event, somewhere in the Netherlands, for guys like us.
>
> If it's just Dirk and Me we will call it a mini Fest, if there are 5
> users it is an EMC for dummies fest, more than 20 we'll call a big
> succes ;-)
>
> If anyone is interested, wants to join or even has a location (or more
> donor material), just reply via email.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>Rob
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[Rainer Schmidt]

Get a 3Phase VFD and as long as you have 220 single phase you will be
ok. I run a 16Inch resaw with a 3HP motor that way.
Good luck!
R

Those guy's are in the neighborhood and have good prices and service:
http://www.dealerselectric.com/


On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> I find I am in need of a bandsaw with at least 12.5" of resaw capability, and
> I'm reluctant to buy a Rikon 10-325 to get it as that will be circa a kilobuck
> by the time I fit it with a WoodSlicer blade, a mitre gauge, a pack of table
> inserts & pay the freight.
>
> The only real candidate I can find on the net is a 24" SCIM, but its motor is
> a 2.4kw 3 phase, and 3 phase is not available on my street.
>
> Does anyone know of such a beast?, used is ok unless its used up.
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
> 
>
> Bunker's Admonition:
>        You cannot buy beer; you can only rent it.
>
>
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-- 
_
Rainer M. Schmidt
Complex Consulting LLC
b...@complexllc.com
Mob (646)-275-0296
VoIP (646)-233-1002
FAX (646)-435-9216

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Re: [Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 26 June 2009, Rainer Schmidt wrote:
>Get a 3Phase VFD and as long as you have 220 single phase you will be
>ok. I run a 16Inch resaw with a 3HP motor that way.
>Good luck!
>R
>
>Those guy's are in the neighborhood and have good prices and service:
>http://www.dealerselectric.com/
>
+10, bookmarked.  Thanks.

>On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> I find I am in need of a bandsaw with at least 12.5" of resaw capability,
>> and I'm reluctant to buy a Rikon 10-325 to get it as that will be circa a
>> kilobuck by the time I fit it with a WoodSlicer blade, a mitre gauge, a
>> pack of table inserts & pay the freight.
>>
>> The only real candidate I can find on the net is a 24" SCIM, but its motor
>> is a 2.4kw 3 phase, and 3 phase is not available on my street.
>>
>> Does anyone know of such a beast?, used is ok unless its used up.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers, Gene
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
>> 
>>
>> Bunker's Admonition:
>>You cannot buy beer; you can only rent it.
>>
>>
>> --
>> ___
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Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.


The only winner in the War of 1812 was Tchaikovsky.
-- David Gerrold


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Re: [Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[cmgfam]

Regarding VFD's

A poly phase input unit may be used even if single phase is the only power
avilable.  The VFD must be sized a bit (1.5 -2 X) to accommodate the
current through the DC rectifiers.
The units I have (a Toshiba and two Siemens) all came by way of E-bay (New
in box) and cost less than $50 each,  7.5 and 5 HP. List price would have
been much greater.

Just a bit of information.

Cal


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Re: [Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 26 June 2009, cmg...@sover.net wrote:
>Regarding VFD's
>
>A poly phase input unit may be used even if single phase is the only power
>avilable.  The VFD must be sized a bit (1.5 -2 X) to accommodate the
>current through the DC rectifiers.
>The units I have (a Toshiba and two Siemens) all came by way of E-bay (New
>in box) and cost less than $50 each,  7.5 and 5 HP. List price would have
>been much greater.
>
>Just a bit of information.
>
>Cal

I will keep that in mind.  Being a CET, replacing the diodes with bigger stuff 
is no problem.  As a BCast engineer, I've dealt with some good sized hocky 
pucks here and there, the ones with flying anode leads & 500MCM cable. :)

>From that comment I also assume one can run lower powered motors from higher 
rated units & the only disadvantage  might be a slight loss of conversion 
efficiency?

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.


It's hard not to like a man of many qualities, even if most of them are bad.


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[Emc-users] some interesting results

[Jake Anderson]

Just thought I would let the list know the results of some experiments I 
have done.

I am new to EMC and as such was looking for a machine to run everything 
on, After looking around for a while I found that there were pre 
compiled packages for SMP (multi processor machines).
I just happened to have an old Dual Xeon 3.06 floating around And so I 
tried that, After some fiddling and fluffing (mostly do to my own 
ineptitude) It was up and running and I was getting jitter figures of 
about 3000 or so with the vesa drivers.

Then I figured, Since the RT CPU is isolated I might be able to use the 
nvidia driver after all. The machine has a 6600GT in it after all and 
it'd be nice to use it. I couldn't use the standard driver that ships 
with ubuntu because the modules weren't compiled for the rtai kernel but 
the latest driver from the nvidia website worked fine.

End result, without glxgears running jitter was about 1800 and with it 
running it was about 2400. The only major thing I have noticed is if I 
*start* glxgears while the latency-test is running it causes a ~40k 
latency spike.
My feeling is this shouldn't really be a problem as once axis is running 
there don't appear to be any unusual spikes or anything like that.

The packages for EMC itself with the SMP kernel are a little out dated 
(2.3.0) but recompiling those isn't such a big deal.

My final results are up in the wiki as well
*Max Interval (1.0 ms thread) *993562
*Max Jitter(ns) 1.0 ms thread *6471*
Max Interval (25 us thread) *27011*
Max Jitter (25 us thread) *2458
These are the result of about an hour long run of latency-test while 
downloading and installing other software with glxgears running (and 
putting out about 8000FPS ;->)

Thanks to the people on #emc for help with the setup.

All that remains is to start cutting metal lol
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Re: [Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[Hubert Bahr]

Gene
I am not quite sure of the math but you also might consider a 240V 
in VFD drive to convert it to 3 phase.   This is recommended many times 
as almost a break even choice when replacing large single phase motors 
for mills and lathes as a 3 phase motor is enough cheaper that it plus 
the cost of the VFD drive is about the same as the single phase motor, 
and is has the added advantage of giving you variable speed.

Hubert

Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> I find I am in need of a bandsaw with at least 12.5" of resaw capability, and 
> I'm reluctant to buy a Rikon 10-325 to get it as that will be circa a 
> kilobuck 
> by the time I fit it with a WoodSlicer blade, a mitre gauge, a pack of table 
> inserts & pay the freight.
>
> The only real candidate I can find on the net is a 24" SCIM, but its motor is 
> a 2.4kw 3 phase, and 3 phase is not available on my street.
>
> Does anyone know of such a beast?, used is ok unless its used up.
>
>   


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Re: [Emc-users] Need a bandsaw for resaw duties

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 26 June 2009, Hubert Bahr wrote:
>Gene
>I am not quite sure of the math but you also might consider a 240V
>in VFD drive to convert it to 3 phase.   This is recommended many times
>as almost a break even choice when replacing large single phase motors
>for mills and lathes as a 3 phase motor is enough cheaper that it plus
>the cost of the VFD drive is about the same as the single phase motor,
>and is has the added advantage of giving you variable speed.
>
I wondered about that as it seemed to me that a 3 phase motor, with its 
simpler construction, should be cheaper than a single phase of the same power.

Thanks.

But now I can't find that 24" SCIM on the net tonight.  Probably not holding 
my mouth correctly...

>Hubert
>
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> I find I am in need of a bandsaw with at least 12.5" of resaw capability,
>> and I'm reluctant to buy a Rikon 10-325 to get it as that will be circa a
>> kilobuck by the time I fit it with a WoodSlicer blade, a mitre gauge, a
>> pack of table inserts & pay the freight.
>>
>> The only real candidate I can find on the net is a 24" SCIM, but its motor
>> is a 2.4kw 3 phase, and 3 phase is not available on my street.
>>
>> Does anyone know of such a beast?, used is ok unless its used up.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] (Dutch) EMC for Dummies fest

[Dirk]

On Jun 26, 2009, at 11:42 PM, Sven Wesley wrote:

> Weird, you are the second within a couple of days notifying me about  
> the
> Euro-EMC idea.

No, I contacted you and Rob. I was wondering what happened with your  
initiative and I was wondering what the nearest EMC'er, that is Rob,  
was thinking about a meeting.

> Yes, it was me who brought that up. Unfortunately there was too little
> interest as very very very few who responded. I had a couple of good
> locations on spot and even a machine that was free for play (ie, it  
> could
> have been EMCified). Maybe I'll make another trial shoot next year,  
> around
> spring or so. But right now it seems no idea and I have no time.

Well, we are at least with three now who want some kind of meeting.  
Maybe, if we bring it up once in a while, more people will get  
interested.

Dirk

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Re: [Emc-users] (Dutch) EMC for Dummies fest

[Dirk]

>
> If anyone is interested, wants to join or even has a location (or more
> donor material), just reply via email.
>
>
I am in! :-)

Dirk

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