Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
Dave pravi: OK.. now I am confused. I haven't looked at Les' jog during tool change fix. Where is that fix documented? Is it in the Wiki? I have no idea why that is not in V2.4. Perhaps no one asked that it be included? Are you saying that you can do a jog during a tool change but you cannot do a jog during a pause? I can clearly see the value of doing a jog during a pause as I have seen cutters get bound up with stringy swarf many times. Dave The fix has no other documentattion than just posts on this list long time ago. It alow jog/touchOff during tool change as it's executed when toolchange appears. How to execute it just on M1 or pause I don't know. From discussion there are some user's that realy like that feature enabled and in opposite group that say's this is danger operation. On big commercial machines that sort of thing is (can be) enabled and only warning in manual tell's that this can be dangerous. I don't think that we need some automatic here. KISS is the best. If user pause machine and stop spindle collant's or whatever or jog machine the 1'st thing when machine resume operation is to move xyz to last coordinate in linear move. If they hit fixture that's operator problem not the problem for developer of software. So before resume the user is responsible to jog machine back into position when linear move can't hurd and before resume to turn on spindle collant as is before. Slavko. p.s. here is repost of hal_manualtoolchange.py #!/usr/bin/env python import sys, os import gettext BASE = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]), ..)) gettext.install(emc2, localedir=os.path.join(BASE, share, locale), unicode=True) import emc, hal def do_change(n): if n: message = _(Insert tool %d and click continue when ready) % n else: message = _(Remove the tool and click continue when ready) app.wm_withdraw() app.update() app.tk.call(nf_dialog, .tool_change, _(Tool change), message, info, 0, _(Continue)) h.changed = True app.update() h = hal.component(hal_manualtoolchange) h.newpin(number, hal.HAL_S32, hal.HAL_IN) h.newpin(change, hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_IN) h.newpin(changed, hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT) h.ready() import Tkinter, nf, rs274.options app = Tkinter.Tk(className=AxisToolChanger) app.wm_geometry(-60-60) app.wm_title(_(AXIS Manual Toolchanger)) rs274.options.install(app) nf.start(app); nf.makecommand(app, _, _) app.wm_protocol(WM_DELETE_WINDOW, app.wm_withdraw) lab = Tkinter.Message(app, aspect=500, text = _(\ This window is part of the AXIS manual toolchanger. It is safe to close \ or iconify this window, or it will close automatically after a few seconds.)) lab.pack() def withdraw(): app.wm_withdraw() app.bind(Expose, lambda event: app.wm_withdraw()) app.after(10 * 1000, withdraw) try: while 1: change = h.change if change and not h.changed: do_change(h.number) elif not change: h.changed = False app.after(100) app.update() except KeyboardInterrupt: pass -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
It has been a while since I last looked at it but if I remember correctly my 'fix' is just a hack to the tool change routine. on a tool change it takes a note of the current line then stops the interpreter. You can then jog etc. Afterwards it just does a 'run from here'. This only works on a tool change and can't be safely implemented during pause. It is also pretty easy to get things horribly out of sync if you aren't careful. That is why I didn't ask for it to be included in EMC. Les On 15/05/10 20:19, Dave wrote: OK.. now I am confused. I haven't looked at Les' jog during tool change fix. Where is that fix documented? Is it in the Wiki? I have no idea why that is not in V2.4. Perhaps no one asked that it be included? Are you saying that you can do a jog during a tool change but you cannot do a jog during a pause? I can clearly see the value of doing a jog during a pause as I have seen cutters get bound up with stringy swarf many times. Dave -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
On Sat, 15 May 2010 15:09:52 -0400, you wrote: From the discussion I have heard there are many concerns about putting this functionality into EMC2 plus it is viewed as being very difficult. Jog during feedhold is in every commercial control I've used, it's a glaring omission in EMC. What concerns? - There is a wiki page - please post them there, so users are able to respond to them. Seems easier to play the Nanny State card to avoid the subject, rather than trying to discuss or solve any perceived problems, or implementing it. I've heard it's difficult, but not impossible, I can't really comment on that, I am not a programmer and don't understand the innards of EMC. It's a pity pause (feed hold), doesn't behave like tool change, it would be easy to implement then - then again, perhaps it does, I wouldn't know where to look though ;) Les' tool change jog fix was posted to this thread on 17th March by Hubert Bahr. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/17898/match= It works very well, I've used it many hundreds of times since last year without incident, in fact I couldn't use my router under EMC without it. Splitting files into one for each tool or adding a tool touch off device were proposed as the de facto fixes. Les's fix is elegant and simple to use. When the tool change dialogue box pops up, you click on the axis screen to get focus, then jog, zero tool or whatever you like, when finished just click OK on the manual tool change box to continue code from the line following the M6. Interesting to jog well away then continue, DRO's track any jogged position and the return moves are quite predictable. Steve Blackmore -- -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] (fwd) Re: Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
On Sat, 15 May 2010 15:19:49 -0400, you wrote: OK.. now I am confused. I haven't looked at Les' jog during tool change fix. Where is that fix documented? Is it in the Wiki? No idea. I have no idea why that is not in V2.4. Perhaps no one asked that it be included? Yes - it was asked. Are you saying that you can do a jog during a tool change but you cannot do a jog during a pause? Yes. I can clearly see the value of doing a jog during a pause as I have seen cutters get bound up with stringy swarf many times. Exactly. Steve Blackmore -- -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
Leslie Newell pravi: It has been a while since I last looked at it but if I remember correctly my 'fix' is just a hack to the tool change routine. on a tool change it takes a note of the current line then stops the interpreter. You can then jog etc. Afterwards it just does a 'run from here'. This only works on a tool change and can't be safely implemented during pause. It is also pretty easy to get things horribly out of sync if you aren't careful. That is why I didn't ask for it to be included in EMC. Les Just right!. It's bad design, It's bad implemantation, It's ugly hack.. I love that! As is enable me to use machine and I doesn't have any other solution. I don't like to split files as already here is a mess of it's So Leslie wery thank's for that ugly hack!. :D ...just sadd as pause isn't supported. (can't be in that way) Slavko. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] (fwd) Re: Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
Steve Blackmore pravi: Are you saying that you can do a jog during a tool change but you cannot do a jog during a pause? Yes. How do you do that?!? I can jog only in toolchange phase. I can clearly see the value of doing a jog during a pause as I have seen cutters get bound up with stringy swarf many times. Exactly. plastic swarf flying and burning stock... How to (safe) remove it. (I see PAUSE, jog Z up, clean, resume.. ) Slavko. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Cannibalize Industrial Robot Servo System to Retrofit Milling Machine???
At 12:13 PM 5/15/2010, you wrote: If it were my mill, I would look for some 90 (or higher) Volt DC brushed motors from a treadmill or similar. The robot motors will most likely have proprietary output shafts and drive requirements, which would be hard to deal with. A more generic motor would most likely have enough plain shaft to mount a timing belt pulley. You can fit a US Digital encoder disk and sensor to the motor shaft or preferably to the ball screw for each axis. If you get the disk and sensor separately you can save a bit of money by machining the rest of the assembly, and you can get a custom fit. Here is the test setup on my Bridgeport: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/00047-1a.jpg http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/00046-1a.jpg http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/ The ball screws turned out to have a couple of thousandths of an inch slop, so I need to find another set before I continue with this project. I'll probably mount a small timing belt between the ball screw to an encoder, similar to this: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/ I would keep the robot intact, run it with EMC2 as a work piece changer, tool changer and beer server. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA Kirk, Problem is, those treadmill motors are almost impossible to find anymore, unless you happen to stumble across a parking lot full of used treadmills. Surplus Center hasn't had them in stock for almost a year now. Mark -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] [MOVED] Rastering with a laser
The emc-users list is probably the more appropriate list for this thread. I'm trying to do rastering with a laser. But each time the pwm changes, the movement stops for a few milliseconds. If in the next pixel changes the pwm, then there is a slight pause. Is there any way to make rastering at a constant speed, with no pauses when change the pwm?. If the g-code is: G1 X0 S 200 G1 X20 S100 G1 X25 S150 there is acceleration from X0, deceleration to X20, acceleration from X20, deceleration to X25, etc. So the speed is not constant and the laser kept more time in the positions X0, X20, X25, etc. This makes the laser burn more at those points. I think there is a constant speed mode, but I dont know how tu use it. Some people suggest to connect the laser to the Z value rather than the spindle. I don't like very much this approach. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Cannibalize Industrial Robot Servo System to Retrofit Milling Machine???
On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 07:07 -0400, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: ... snip Problem is, those treadmill motors are almost impossible to find anymore, unless you happen to stumble across a parking lot full of used treadmills. Surplus Center hasn't had them in stock for almost a year now. Mark I haven't had to buy any recently, but it sure seems like they are scarce. Dumpsters and trash day cruising seem to be the best source for these now. The windmill people have driven the prices up on eBay. Some of the RC people make there own out-runner motors. Some of these motors get up to 2 kW. Shaft sensors would be needed for our application. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [MOVED] Rastering with a laser
On 16 May 2010 14:52, Agustin Cruz agustin.c...@gmail.com wrote: Some people suggest to connect the laser to the Z value rather than the spindle. I don't like very much this approach. You could use A,B,C,U,V,or W if you prefer. -- atp -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Cannibalize Industrial Robot Servo System to Retrofit Milling Machine???
At 10:50 AM 5/16/2010, you wrote: On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 07:07 -0400, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: ... snip Problem is, those treadmill motors are almost impossible to find anymore, unless you happen to stumble across a parking lot full of used treadmills. Surplus Center hasn't had them in stock for almost a year now. Mark I haven't had to buy any recently, but it sure seems like they are scarce. Dumpsters and trash day cruising seem to be the best source for these now. The windmill people have driven the prices up on eBay. Some of the RC people make there own out-runner motors. Some of these motors get up to 2 kW. Shaft sensors would be needed for our application. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA I use two of them, one each, to power the saws on my saw beveler. I've been watching Surplus Center for a while now, waiting for them to become available again so I can pick up a couple as spares. Been looking for a long while.. Mark -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
Gentlemen, In 1980 I remember starting in the middle of a program on a Fanuc 5T and GE 1050 mill controls. It was the operators responsibility to get the machine in position and the control prepared to start. On the these controls I could skip lines with a toggle switch or search button. The first thing to do was to position the machine so the start would be safe. I would then position the program (or tape) at the beginning of the program and skip to the beginning of the tool section where I wanted to start. In single block I would then skip lines I didn't want to run and run lines I wanted to run. I had to read the spindle speed, spindle start, any prep codes (G90, G91, etc) I needed to be in effect. To me, this seemed very straight forward and easy. I seldom had a problem with it. The way EMC2 works now is a dream compared to the way I learned. I can envision program situations where this may be complicated. Macros, do loops, etc. I don't program in that fashion just for that reason. BUT! EMC2 is open software. If you want a feature - have at it. You will find help beyond belief from the developers and others. You will have to put in time and effort but then you will have what you want. The developers and others are not paid to do this. Their time is freely given out of their lives. Any heartache anyone has for a feature not having been implemented is misguided. There my be some control software that has the feature you desire. They are probably not free. They are probably not open. I wanted to be able to geometrically compensate my 5 axis mill. This was not something in the heart and mind of any of the developers. I understood that from the start. I wrote it. ANY question I asked was answered, I was helped with learning where to find things. I was helped with what to look for. I was helped with advice in what to watch out for. In short, it took me a year of time and a lot of hours of development but with the assistance (answering my questions) of the developers and others I now have geometric compensation on my 5 axis mill. I understand it because I wrote it. I understand EMC2 MUCH better because of the help I received. You want something - GO FOR IT. You will find the people involved will go out of their way to assist you. They just won't do the whole project for you. This is the best of all worlds. The software is open. The people are helpful. Try this with any commercial control - HAH. The EMC2 guys are intelligent, fast and above all helpful. just my 2 cents thanks Stuart -- dos centavos -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 10:17 -0500, Stuart Stevenson wrote: Gentlemen, In 1980 I remember starting in the middle of a program on a Fanuc 5T and GE 1050 mill controls. It was the operators responsibility to get the ... snip You want something - GO FOR IT. You will find the people involved will go out of their way to assist you. They just won't do the whole project for you. This is the best of all worlds. The software is open. The people are helpful. Try this with any commercial control - HAH. The EMC2 guys are intelligent, fast and above all helpful. just my 2 cents thanks Stuart I agree on all your points Stuart. My thanks go to all of the people that have helped make EMC2 what it is. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [MOVED] Rastering with a laser
did you try to using G64 ? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sub:G61,-G61.1,-G64: -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
There is no doubt that the developers are an awesome bunch of individuals. I am constantly impressed by their helpfulness. EMC2 is a standout piece of software because of their dedicated efforts. Dave (Dave911) On 5/16/2010 11:49 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 10:17 -0500, Stuart Stevenson wrote: Gentlemen, In 1980 I remember starting in the middle of a program on a Fanuc 5T and GE 1050 mill controls. It was the operators responsibility to get the ... snip You want something - GO FOR IT. You will find the people involved will go out of their way to assist you. They just won't do the whole project for you. This is the best of all worlds. The software is open. The people are helpful. Try this with any commercial control - HAH. The EMC2 guys are intelligent, fast and above all helpful. just my 2 cents thanks Stuart I agree on all your points Stuart. My thanks go to all of the people that have helped make EMC2 what it is. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
Jog during feedhold is in every commercial control I've used, it's a glaring omission in EMC. I'm sure that EMC2 will pickup that feature eventually but there is a list of work that is being done and from what I have heard, doing this right is not an easy task. The developers are a very disciplined bunch of guys and they aren't going to incorporate a hack into EMC2 at the risk of making it unstable. The stability of EMC2 is one of it's great features. Seems easier to play the Nanny State card to avoid the subject, rather than trying to discuss or solve any perceived problems, or implementing it. I don't think that has much, if anything to do with it. If it was simple it would have been done months ago. Les' tool change jog fix was posted to this thread on 17th March by Hubert Bahr. Ok, I think I saw that before, I'll find it - thanks. It works very well, I've used it many hundreds of times since last year without incident, in fact I couldn't use my router under EMC without it. Splitting files into one for each tool or adding a tool touch off device were proposed as the de facto fixes. Les's fix is elegant and simple to use. Ok, well if Les' tool change routine works as you would like, and if Les's memory is good, then doing a program pause, then stop, (then jog about, do tool touch offs etc ) followed with a run from here should in effect do what Les is doing with his tool change program modification... correct? Steve, can you check this out and let us know if it works to your satisfaction as is? Dave (Dave911 on the IRC) On 5/16/2010 5:42 AM, Steve Blackmore wrote: On Sat, 15 May 2010 15:09:52 -0400, you wrote: From the discussion I have heard there are many concerns about putting this functionality into EMC2 plus it is viewed as being very difficult. Jog during feedhold is in every commercial control I've used, it's a glaring omission in EMC. What concerns? - There is a wiki page - please post them there, so users are able to respond to them. Seems easier to play the Nanny State card to avoid the subject, rather than trying to discuss or solve any perceived problems, or implementing it. I've heard it's difficult, but not impossible, I can't really comment on that, I am not a programmer and don't understand the innards of EMC. It's a pity pause (feed hold), doesn't behave like tool change, it would be easy to implement then - then again, perhaps it does, I wouldn't know where to look though ;) Les' tool change jog fix was posted to this thread on 17th March by Hubert Bahr. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/17898/match= It works very well, I've used it many hundreds of times since last year without incident, in fact I couldn't use my router under EMC without it. Splitting files into one for each tool or adding a tool touch off device were proposed as the de facto fixes. Les's fix is elegant and simple to use. When the tool change dialogue box pops up, you click on the axis screen to get focus, then jog, zero tool or whatever you like, when finished just click OK on the manual tool change box to continue code from the line following the M6. Interesting to jog well away then continue, DRO's track any jogged position and the return moves are quite predictable. Steve Blackmore -- -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:17:46 -0500, you wrote: Gentlemen, In 1980 I remember starting in the middle of a program on a Fanuc 5T and GE 1050 mill controls. It was the operators responsibility to get the machine in position and the control prepared to start. On the these controls I could skip lines with a toggle switch or search button. The first thing to do was to position the machine so the start would be safe. I would then position the program (or tape) at the beginning of the program and skip to the beginning of the tool section where I wanted to start. In single block I would then skip lines I didn't want to run and run lines I wanted to run. I had to read the spindle speed, spindle start, any prep codes (G90, G91, etc) I needed to be in effect. To me, this seemed very straight forward and easy. I seldom had a problem with it. The way EMC2 works now is a dream compared to the way I learned. I can envision program situations where this may be complicated. Macros, do loops, etc. I don't program in that fashion just for that reason. Hi Stuart - look at the wiki page, nobody is asking that it works during macros, canned cycles, loops or any other excuse that can be made to not implement it. BUT! EMC2 is open software. If you want a feature - have at it. You will find help beyond belief from the developers and others. Define developers. A better name may be coordinators of third party input. No new features get developed unless one of them wants it for himself. What are the aims of EMC? Does it have any aspirations to progress or not? From http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?BoardOfDirectors The board of directors will: 1. develop an EMC mission statement Has that been done? What is it? 5. maintain a prioritised list of features to be added Where do these features come from, who is tasked to write them, how do you get things added to this list? You will have to put in time and effort but then you will have what you want. The developers and others are not paid to do this. Their time is freely given out of their lives. I can't give any programming skills but I have got 40 years practical engineering experience, I can't write code, but I can freely advise how things work in the real world. I would expect those who volunteered to be developers to convert those features to code?? You want something - GO FOR IT. You will find the people involved will go out of their way to assist you. Not in my experience. The only option seems to be write it yourself. They just won't do the whole project for you. Discussing would be a start! Steve Blackmore -- -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
hey guys, I have been looking at the other hal_manualtoolchange and this seems to work fine with absolute position mode, in relative mode it get's lost. However, what I want to do is as soon as the window pop-ups up I want to store the machine coordinates in a variable/file. The change I want to make is this: As soon as a use presses ok, I don't want it go linear line to the stopped point, but I want to put a option to align in order. For example first X and Y, then Z. This way I will have less chance to crash the tool in the part. I think this will work good for lathe's and XYZ type routers. I am a complete python n00b and each time I do python code (about once every 2 months) I need to re-learn the 'weird' language :) However, I want to modify an extend hal_manualtoolchange with one of the following options. 1) Just specify a order in the ini file, for example: [TRAJ] HAL_MANUALTOOLCHANGE_ORDER=X Y Z This means first align X, then Y then Z XY Z could mean, align X and Y at the same time, then Z. 2) MDI Command. This will allow you to specify some commands before the machine starts milling like O routines, i am not sure how to pass the saved machine coordinates then, but possible this can be done in a register? THis could conflict with other registers... 3) Other ideas? -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
Good place to start. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?EmcFeatures -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
