Re: [Emc-users] Buttons!
What motherboard/video card are you using? Dave On 3/28/2011 5:41 PM, Les Newell wrote: > Hmm, well if I load the user mode part of CL with --nogui then the cpu > load is about 20% but I don't have modbus. If I remove the --nogui then > I get the GUI, modbus works and CPU load goes up to 90%. > > Les > > On 28/03/11 16:46, Dave wrote: > >> Les, >> >> I think something else may be wrong. >> >> I have used Classic Ladder quite a bit and I don't have any CPU loading >> issues at all. >> >> The last setup I did was driving step and direction motors via a LPT >> port on an Intel 330 based Atom motherboard. >> >> Last year Jeff Epler cleaned up the Modbus code for CL and I did some >> testing of it and the CPU loads were very minor. >> >> Dave >> > > -- > Create and publish websites with WebMatrix > Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; > WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish > your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buttons!
I can't remember what it was like without Modbus. I'll do some more tests later. Les On 28/03/11 13:30, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote: > I haven't looked at the code, but I wonder if there's some busy-waiting > or very short duration usleep()s in the serial receive function(s). > > Do you see the same load if you have CL running without Modbus? > > - Steve -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buttons!
Hmm, well if I load the user mode part of CL with --nogui then the cpu load is about 20% but I don't have modbus. If I remove the --nogui then I get the GUI, modbus works and CPU load goes up to 90%. Les On 28/03/11 16:46, Dave wrote: > Les, > > I think something else may be wrong. > > I have used Classic Ladder quite a bit and I don't have any CPU loading > issues at all. > > The last setup I did was driving step and direction motors via a LPT > port on an Intel 330 based Atom motherboard. > > Last year Jeff Epler cleaned up the Modbus code for CL and I did some > testing of it and the CPU loads were very minor. > > Dave -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] How to create g-code?
Hello, gentlemen! I have a question about creating g-code for a machine with awkward kinematics. Basically my problem can be reduced to following issue: How can I create g-code, if I know the path of tool in XY plane and a path in XZ plane? I have 2 paths that I have to merge together - execute simultaneously. How can I blend them together? Both lines contain straight lines and arcs, so since both of them contain X coordinates, that can be used as a reference. I think that easiest way would be splitting X in a ~0,5 mm increments and calculating corresponding Y and Z values (0,2-0,3 mm precision tolerance on the part is acceptable), because: a) blending together arcs in 2 different planes will result in crazy shapes, like parabola or something similar; b) somehow I belive that EMC can interpolate movement along 2 axis, I have to move along 3 axis simultaneously. Does anyone have an idea, how to merge two lines together? Should I start with dxf or could I convert both contours to g-code and then use some custom python filter to merge them together? To ensure that both lines are synced by X coordinate, I would like to make it calculate Y and Z positions for certain X increments. How hard is that? Am I the only one who thinks that this approach makes any sense? This way would provide me with a following benefit: with inverse time feed rate I could ensure that material is moved with a constant speed (actually that is pretty important to move material with a constant speed). I understand that this approach means substantial length of g-code file, but that is o.k. Any ideas or suggestions (especially on the programming part) will be appreciated :) Viesturs -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: MPG format
Steve Blackmore wrote: > On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:12:30 +0100, you wrote: > > >> I am a great believer in having 1 MPG per axis. I use high resolution >> encoders (500 lines upwards) and proper hand wheels so the machine can >> be operated as a manual. The hand wheels have friction but no indents, >> just like a manual machine. With a bit of practice you can turn out >> one-offs or short runs very quickly by mixing manual and MDI (works >> really well in Mach3, not so well in EMC). >> > > What's the problem with EMC? I was going to convert my two MPG's to work > with EMC. I don't use them with Mach much - step/velocity is appalling, > if it's worse with EMC - I'll forget it. > OK, the way Axis is set up, you have to change modes to go from MDI to manual. The jog dials are disabled when in MDI. I suspect you could find a way to get around that. As for smoothness with the MPG, I put a filter between the MPG output and EMC's jog input, to reduce the graniness of the position. When the jog dial is set for the fastest movement (.01" per click on my setup) the servos would rattle loudly without this. With a simple filter added, there is only the slightest hint of a hum. The filter is just another HAL component, about 3 lines of code. Jon -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Can I rigid tap with a BOTTOMING tap?
> > Blind tapped holes are everyday occurrences commercially, its not a > problem. > Right! While I prefer through holes, there are plenty of places where I can't go through. One thing I make is some cabinet rails that are 8 - 11" long, and have threaded holes in the ends. The part I copied was an extrusion with the tap diameter extruded into the part, but when I make them from aluminum bar stock, I don't have that luxury. I just drill deep and tap it, no biggie. Sometimes I even rigid-tap these, but that can cause binding of the tap, so I more often tap by hand to avoid accidents. That might be a perfect place for forming taps. Jon -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buttons!
I think that was the local exchange. I grew up in Fremont, OH and we were always FEderal 2, which changed to 332, my grandmother in WV was SKyline-X<- don't remember the number. I remember my dad making the call as it was operator assisted and you told her or him the city you wanted and the number using the word and 5 digit phone number. For years everyone in the 332 exchange you could just dial 2-1234 and get you party. Gary Fiber K8IZ On 3/28/2011 8:54 AM, Dave wrote: > On 3/28/2011 4:40 AM, Mark Wendt wrote: >> On 03/27/2011 01:56 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: >> Why not? I found it to be a great fit for HMIs, and fearsomely easy. Granted, if you already hack pics and avrs in your sleep, it probably has little to offer, but for the other 99.7% of humanity, it makes simple things easy and moderately complex things accessible. -- >>> Your talking to a guy that grew up with a phone number that started with >>> Regent-6, so there are a lot of new things in this world that I just >>> don't get. I just ordered an Uno so maybe I'll be on board soon. >>> >> Our phone number started with Republic-1. What was an area code back >> then? ;-) >> >> Mark >> >> -- >> Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the >> growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses >> are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software >> be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker >> today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> >> > Ha... I was Garfield 1 - 7253.Where you guys ever able to use the > "tunnel" back then. I forget how, but if you dialed a certain number > everyone was piped into the same conversation but it sounded like you > were talking in a tunnel - a lot of echos. It was our version of a > social chat room back then. At least in the Detroit area. > > We had a party line back then as it was a lot cheaper. > > Long distance??? Not much of that as it was very costly. A lot of > older people still refuse to talk on the telephone for more than about a > minute via long distance, since they are still convinced that it is very > expensive. > I have an Uncle who is 97 and I he calls on my birthday etc and his > phone calls are always under a minute. :-) If I don't talk quickly > he will just hang up. > > Dave > > -- > Create and publish websites with WebMatrix > Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; > WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish > your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Gary P. Fiber K8IZ General Radio Telephone Operators License PG-19-6691, with Shipboard Radar Endorsement. Washington State Resident. Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient (s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buttons!
On 3/28/2011 4:40 AM, Mark Wendt wrote: > On 03/27/2011 01:56 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: > >>> Why not? I found it to be a great fit for HMIs, and fearsomely easy. >>> Granted, if you already hack pics and avrs in your sleep, it probably >>> has little to offer, but for the other 99.7% of humanity, it makes >>> simple things easy and moderately complex things accessible. >>> -- >>> >> Your talking to a guy that grew up with a phone number that started with >> Regent-6, so there are a lot of new things in this world that I just >> don't get. I just ordered an Uno so maybe I'll be on board soon. >> > Our phone number started with Republic-1. What was an area code back > then? ;-) > > Mark > > -- > Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the > growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses > are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software > be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker > today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > Ha... I was Garfield 1 - 7253.Where you guys ever able to use the "tunnel" back then. I forget how, but if you dialed a certain number everyone was piped into the same conversation but it sounded like you were talking in a tunnel - a lot of echos. It was our version of a social chat room back then. At least in the Detroit area. We had a party line back then as it was a lot cheaper. Long distance??? Not much of that as it was very costly. A lot of older people still refuse to talk on the telephone for more than about a minute via long distance, since they are still convinced that it is very expensive. I have an Uncle who is 97 and I he calls on my birthday etc and his phone calls are always under a minute. :-) If I don't talk quickly he will just hang up. Dave -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Programming issue
I haven't tried that yet. But we will. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Viesturs Lcis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:07:43 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Programming issue > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 2:19 PM, David Keeton wrote: >> >> This is the line of the program in question >> >> G0G90G54T1 >> >> The next line is the M6 command. Is it ok to have G0 command without any axis word in one line with G90, G54 and toolchange commands? Did You try breaking up that compilation of commands in one commands per line and then see, which is causing problems? Viesturs -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Programming issue
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 2:19 PM, David Keeton wrote: >> >> This is the line of the program in question >> >> G0G90G54T1 >> >> The next line is the M6 command. Is it ok to have G0 command without any axis word in one line with G90, G54 and toolchange commands? Did You try breaking up that compilation of commands in one commands per line and then see, which is causing problems? Viesturs -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buttons!
Les, I think something else may be wrong. I have used Classic Ladder quite a bit and I don't have any CPU loading issues at all. The last setup I did was driving step and direction motors via a LPT port on an Intel 330 based Atom motherboard. Last year Jeff Epler cleaned up the Modbus code for CL and I did some testing of it and the CPU loads were very minor. Dave On 3/28/2011 1:43 AM, Les Newell wrote: > Thanks. I think I will have to go down that route because ClassicLadder > is being a real CPU hog. Without the CL GUI loaded my average CPU load > with Axis running is 20%. With Modbus enabled and the ClassicLadder GUI > running, CPU load averages 80%. > > Les > > On 28/03/11 06:16, Kirk Wallace wrote: > >> I added a page to the wiki that has notes on changing the vfs11_vfd.c >> file to make a new Modus device component: >> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?New_File_From_Vfs11 >> >> Link to related files: >> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?VFD_Modbus >> >> > > -- > Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the > growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses > are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software > be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker > today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: MPG format
Les Newell wrote: > I am a great believer in having 1 MPG per axis. I use high resolution > encoders (500 lines upwards) and proper hand wheels so the machine can > be operated as a manual. The hand wheels have friction but no indents, > just like a manual machine. With a bit of practice you can turn out > one-offs or short runs very quickly by mixing manual and MDI (works > really well in Mach3, not so well in EMC). I have a Bridgeport mill and > a Colchester Triumph lathe converted like this. I use them in manual > mode more than CNC mode. > What is it that doesn't work well in EMC? Is it mode switching, poor motion, what? Are you using the realtime jog inputs from the motion controller, or a userspace jog like halui? - Steve -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buttons!
Les Newell wrote: > Thanks. I think I will have to go down that route because ClassicLadder > is being a real CPU hog. Without the CL GUI loaded my average CPU load > with Axis running is 20%. With Modbus enabled and the ClassicLadder GUI > running, CPU load averages 80%. > I haven't looked at the code, but I wonder if there's some busy-waiting or very short duration usleep()s in the serial receive function(s). Do you see the same load if you have CL running without Modbus? - Steve -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: MPG format
On 27 March 2011 09:12, Les Newell wrote: > With a bit of practice you can turn out > one-offs or short runs very quickly by mixing manual and MDI (works > really well in Mach3, not so well in EMC). For lathe use I can highly recommend setting up some sort of semi-manual system. I have my own setup with a Pyvcp panel for target X, target Z, surface speed, cut and feed. Then I just jog to a startpoint and press (for example) the "Face", "Turn" or "Bore" button and let the machine get on with it. I suspect that the setup John has using NGCGUI is rather slicker, and I might change over (having a tab for each operation in Axis seems sensible) I documented my setup in case it is not clear what I mean. http://www.bodgesoc.org/lathe/lathe.html (Though in the meantime I have added taper and leadout radius options) Now that Axis allows you to easily add tabs, I think that the approach that this thread alludes to http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,3408/catid,40/limit,6/limitstart,0/lang,english/ is probably better. (But I can't see a good example screenshot) -- atp "Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: MPG format
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:12:30 +0100, you wrote: >I am a great believer in having 1 MPG per axis. I use high resolution >encoders (500 lines upwards) and proper hand wheels so the machine can >be operated as a manual. The hand wheels have friction but no indents, >just like a manual machine. With a bit of practice you can turn out >one-offs or short runs very quickly by mixing manual and MDI (works >really well in Mach3, not so well in EMC). What's the problem with EMC? I was going to convert my two MPG's to work with EMC. I don't use them with Mach much - step/velocity is appalling, if it's worse with EMC - I'll forget it. Steve Blackmore -- -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Can I rigid tap with a BOTTOMING tap?
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 12:29:12 -0700, you wrote: >I avoid making any design that has blind holes. One option I have done >with aluminum parts is to put screws or bolts into the hole and weld the >back of the hole shut, then remove the fasteners. Another is to thread >an Allen head set screw with thread locker/sealant flush with the far >side. ?? Not very practical, and often impossible. >Otherwise, one needs to put plenty of run-off space in the hole, >then find a practical way to clean it out. Use the correct type of tap and blow out and/or wash out any remaining chips. Blind tapped holes are everyday occurrences commercially, its not a problem. Steve Blackmore -- -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buttons!
On 03/27/2011 01:56 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: >> Why not? I found it to be a great fit for HMIs, and fearsomely easy. >> Granted, if you already hack pics and avrs in your sleep, it probably >> has little to offer, but for the other 99.7% of humanity, it makes >> simple things easy and moderately complex things accessible. >> -- > > Your talking to a guy that grew up with a phone number that started with > Regent-6, so there are a lot of new things in this world that I just > don't get. I just ordered an Uno so maybe I'll be on board soon. Our phone number started with Republic-1. What was an area code back then? ;-) Mark -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoders for MPG
I have changed over to making my own MPG's using the cheap ($24) AMT102 settable encoders. I make the shaft and wheel myself and fit a couple of BCD rotary switches in a neat little box. I tend to keep them simple. Currently I am making a substantial unit with two handwheels mounted in an aluminium block and some switches added. This is for a Weiler 160 CNC lathe. The wheels (substantial size mounted on shafts in ball bearings and friction pads and encoders added) will allow me to use the machine in manual mode. The switches allow the following: left and right Z soft limits, X axis soft limits, manual or auto feed for both axes with adjustable speed. The limits allow cutting with hand or auto feed up to the limit as if it was a mechanical stop. I wrote quite a few HAL components to achieve this and will report further on this when the unit has been tested on the machine (currently tested only on a mock-up layout). I am so used to using mechanical stops on my manual Schaublin 125 that I want this also for quick jobs on the bigger Weiler. Rudy du Preez -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
