[Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]

2012-05-19 Thread Erik Christiansen
On 18.05.12 17:25, Kent A. Reed wrote:
 On 5/18/2012 4:28 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
  BTW, now that we can't use EMC2 any more, and LinuxCNC seems longish
  and awkward to type, I am tempted to start using LCNC.
 
 It has seemed to me LCNC would be a good compromise if anyone starts 
 tackling the gazillion occurrences of EMC scattered throughout the 
 code. Not that I'm suggesting it be done, mind you:-)

Err, are we to be the group with no name? We didn't defend the one we
had, and now we seek to discard our new common banner. Granted, laziness
can be a sign of intelligence, i.e why not make things easier? To that
end, I use the following to type LinuxCNC with just one 'L ', in Vim:

$ grep CNC .vimrc
au BufNewFile,BufRead   ~/Desktop/mutt-*   iab L LinuxCNC

With that autocommand triggering only when composing an email, I'm still
free to write the letter L  in other documents.¹

Granted, this particular Insert-mode abbreviation helps only Vim users,
but I'm sure that Emacs is also up to the task. If we have users of
less capable editors, then it is arguably enough to just type:   L

What could be more efficient? On this list we will all know what it
means, and it won't be confused with any other LCLCs.

As for the web pages; why change them manually? Whack the html through a
one-line awk script, and 10,000 edits are done in a minute. (Perhaps
there's some complication preventing that, or it might have been done?)

Capitalising sentences, using punctuation, and briefly checking
spelling respects the readers time equally with our own. Using the
whole of our group's name is one additional courtesy which I'll continue
to offer.

Erik

P.S. Apologies to anyone displeased with my lack of enthusiasm for
 putting the cart before the horse.

¹ To avoid losing a partially composed post, in the event of a reboot,
  I've moved mutt's temporary directory from /tmp with this in .muttrc:

  set tmpdir=~/Desktop

  (Given a default tmpdir, the autocommand would need: ~/tmp/mutt-* )

-- 
The truly lazy person puts in the time  effort to learn how to do
things the easy way and reaps the laziness benefits for years 
afterwards. - Craig Sanders, on luv-main ML.


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Re: [Emc-users] Setting coordinate systems

2012-05-19 Thread Erik Christiansen
On 18.05.12 23:09, Jon Elson wrote:
 The description in the user manual is almost completely incomprehensible.
 G10 L20 makes a little bit of sense, G10 L2 makes no sense at all.  

The new web page:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/gcode.html#_g10_l2_set_coordinate_system_a_id_sec_g10_l2_a

does seem to get there though, since (in terms of the not offset
machine coordinate system) seems unambiguous, i.e absolute w.r.t.
machine origin.

 Everything has to be referenced to the machine coordinate system at
 the lowest level. I have no idea what the origin means.  Is it a
 direct offset added to the machine coordinate system?

Hmm, FWIW I take it to be 0,0,0 in the machine coordinate system,
otherwise it's not an origin, AFAICT. ;-)

 Not at all clear from the description. But, I never even want to know
 about the machine coordinate system. The only thing that makes sense
 when setting up is where the machine is NOW, because I can measure
 from that.

Um ... that's always been my problem, when reading the older
documentation. i.e. where the machine is NOW w.r.t. what? Yes, touch
off from the workpiece, and those other references become moot.

It scares me that coordinate offsets could be cumulative. Coordinate
offsets (workspaces) should not nest, I believe. I have not read
anything in the doco to say that they do.

Erik

-- 
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and much more difficult to find.  - Terry Pratchett


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Re: [Emc-users] motherboard

2012-05-19 Thread John Thornton
I've got 2 D510's and one the cd drive interface suffers from dain 
bamage and the second one I've done the bios upgrade and it is fine and 
running 10.04 on my BP.

John

On 5/18/2012 9:29 AM, Dave Engvall wrote:
 Hi all,

 About a year ago I acquired a D510M0. A few days ago I found a 'roundtoit' 
 and started to build a replacement controller for my cinci.
 The present one is a Duron 1200 running 8.04/2.4.6/7. ;-)

 Hardware:
   mini-itx D510M0
   2 x 2Gb 800 MHz patriot memory sticks (DDR2)
   1 160 Gb sata Seagate Baracudda 7000
   1 sata cdrom drive (for installation only)

 After trying many times (insanity) to get the 510 to install 10.04/2.5 (live) 
 I took the memory to a computer place to have it tested.
 Both sticks tested fine on memtest-86.
 Came back home and plugged them in to no avail and tried the install again. 
 Burned bootable cd of memtest-86.
 On the D510 it crashes in the first 2 sec only finds one cpu and just  
 locks up.

 Moved memory to a Gigabyte with E5300 and it is presently testing just fine.

 So I need to move on ... the ideal board would be something like the D510 
 with an ide port so I can use my CF.
 Lacking the availability of that maybe something like the D525MW would be 
 appropriate.  I really want to use the mini-itx format.

 Ideas and or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 Dave
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Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]

2012-05-19 Thread Przemek Klosowski
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Erik Christiansen
dva...@internode.on.net wrote:
 On 5/18/2012 4:28 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
  BTW, now that we can't use EMC2 any more, and LinuxCNC seems longish
  and awkward to type, I am tempted to start using LCNC.

 Err, are we to be the group with no name? We didn't defend the one we
 had, and now we seek to discard our new common banner.

You're quite right, I wasn't suggesting this as an official name but
more in the context of informal communications related to LinuxCNC,
where we mention LinuxCNC often and seeing the LinuxCNC term multiple
times next to other mentions of LinuxCNC might just seem visually
crowded because LinuxCNC 'glyph' is fairly long and busy graphically.
For instance, in the source code, there are 55246 instances of the
trigraph EMC, and replacing all of them by LinuxCNC might make the
code slightly less readable, so something like 'lcnc' might be a
reasonable compromise.

Anyway, I start to feel like I'm  bikeshedding so I will stop now.

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Re: [Emc-users] Setting coordinate systems

2012-05-19 Thread cogoman
On 05/19/2012 06:06 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
 It scares me that coordinate offsets could be cumulative. Coordinate
 offsets (workspaces) should not nest, I believe. I have not read
 anything in the doco to say that they do.
   That doesn't scare me at all, as long as the documentation is clear.  
On an old Bandit controller I use relative positioning to make multiple 
parts on a sheet.  If I had multiple fixtures, so that I could have a 
relative offset to the fixture, and then within that fixture a relative 
offset for doing multiple parts on the same stock, it would not be a big 
deal IF... it was clearly documented how to do that.  That way I could 
do multiple parts in absolute positioning, which would make my position 
in the part easier to read.

Full Disclosure:  I have not used offsets in LinuxCNC yet.  (except 
where one got set without me knowing it, and I had to zero it out to get 
my desired result.)

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Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]

2012-05-19 Thread charles green
LMC?


--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Saturday, May 19, 2012, 11:08 AM
 On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Erik
 Christiansen
 dva...@internode.on.net
 wrote:
  On 5/18/2012 4:28 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
   BTW, now that we can't use EMC2 any more, and
 LinuxCNC seems longish
   and awkward to type, I am tempted to start
 using LCNC.
 
  Err, are we to be the group with no name? We didn't
 defend the one we
  had, and now we seek to discard our new common banner.
 
 You're quite right, I wasn't suggesting this as an official
 name but
 more in the context of informal communications related to
 LinuxCNC,
 where we mention LinuxCNC often and seeing the LinuxCNC term
 multiple
 times next to other mentions of LinuxCNC might just seem
 visually
 crowded because LinuxCNC 'glyph' is fairly long and busy
 graphically.
 For instance, in the source code, there are 55246 instances
 of the
 trigraph EMC, and replacing all of them by LinuxCNC might
 make the
 code slightly less readable, so something like 'lcnc' might
 be a
 reasonable compromise.
 
 Anyway, I start to feel like I'm  bikeshedding so I
 will stop now.
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Setting coordinate systems

2012-05-19 Thread Jon Elson
Erik Christiansen wrote:
 Um ... that's always been my problem, when reading the older
 documentation. i.e. where the machine is NOW w.r.t. what? Yes, touch
 off from the workpiece, and those other references become moot.

 It scares me that coordinate offsets could be cumulative. Coordinate
 offsets (workspaces) should not nest, I believe. I have not read
 anything in the doco to say that they do.
   
Umm, I think a long time ago, back before EMC2, they could be considered 
cumulative,
as offsets were added to current position.  But, I think that was 
changed maybe even
before the move to EMC2.  But, I have stayed away from G10 L2 and G92 due to
all sorts of weird problems I had with these years ago.  Using Axis and 
touch off,
I have not had any unexpected behavior when making parts, and that's what
matters!

Jon

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[Emc-users] Subroutines

2012-05-19 Thread Terry Christophersen
Did how subroutines work change from 2.3 to 2.5?
I had a file I ran 6 months ago on 2.3 and with no changes just
moved it to the new computer w/2.5 and I get an error :
 
unable to open file
 
The sub is in the same program just at the bottom 
 
%
some code
 
o31 call    (is the line where the error is)
 
some other code
 
m30
(one line space here)
o31 sub
 
some code here
 
o31 endsub
%
 
 
Terry

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Re: [Emc-users] Subroutines

2012-05-19 Thread Dave Caroline
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Terry Christophersen
tcninj...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Did how subroutines work change from 2.3 to 2.5?
 I had a file I ran 6 months ago on 2.3 and with no changes just

I am not aware of any changes but the subroutines should be defined before use
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/o-code.html#sec:subroutines

o100 sub
  G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0 (rapid move to machine home)
o100 endsub
...
o100 call (call the subroutine here)


Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] Subroutines

2012-05-19 Thread Terry Christophersen
Thanks Dave taat worked,
So it did change sort of because I have 2.3 on a desktop and it worked at the 
end of the program

Thanks again

Terry

 
- Original Message -
From: Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com
To: Terry Christophersen tcninj...@yahoo.com; Enhanced Machine Controller 
(EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Subroutines

On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Terry Christophersen
tcninj...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Did how subroutines work change from 2.3 to 2.5?
 I had a file I ran 6 months ago on 2.3 and with no changes just

I am not aware of any changes but the subroutines should be defined before use
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/o-code.html#sec:subroutines

o100 sub
  G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0 (rapid move to machine home)
o100 endsub
...
o100 call (call the subroutine here)


Dave Caroline


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Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]

2012-05-19 Thread Terry Christophersen
LMC or LNC sounds good to me

 
- Original Message -
From: charles green xxzzb...@yahoo.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]

LMC?


--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Saturday, May 19, 2012, 11:08 AM
 On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Erik
 Christiansen
 dva...@internode.on.net
 wrote:
  On 5/18/2012 4:28 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
   BTW, now that we can't use EMC2 any more, and
 LinuxCNC seems longish
   and awkward to type, I am tempted to start
 using LCNC.
 
  Err, are we to be the group with no name? We didn't
 defend the one we
  had, and now we seek to discard our new common banner.
 
 You're quite right, I wasn't suggesting this as an official
 name but
 more in the context of informal communications related to
 LinuxCNC,
 where we mention LinuxCNC often and seeing the LinuxCNC term
 multiple
 times next to other mentions of LinuxCNC might just seem
 visually
 crowded because LinuxCNC 'glyph' is fairly long and busy
 graphically.
 For instance, in the source code, there are 55246 instances
 of the
 trigraph EMC, and replacing all of them by LinuxCNC might
 make the
 code slightly less readable, so something like 'lcnc' might
 be a
 reasonable compromise.
 
 Anyway, I start to feel like I'm  bikeshedding so I
 will stop now.
 
 --
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 security and 
 threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can
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 latest in malware 
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Re: [Emc-users] Setting coordinate systems

2012-05-19 Thread gene heskett
On Saturday, May 19, 2012 05:16:44 PM cogoman did opine:

 On 05/19/2012 06:06 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
  It scares me that coordinate offsets could be cumulative. Coordinate
  offsets (workspaces) should not nest, I believe. I have not read
  anything in the doco to say that they do.
 
That doesn't scare me at all, as long as the documentation is clear.
 On an old Bandit controller I use relative positioning to make multiple
 parts on a sheet.  If I had multiple fixtures, so that I could have a
 relative offset to the fixture, and then within that fixture a relative
 offset for doing multiple parts on the same stock, it would not be a big
 deal IF... it was clearly documented how to do that.  That way I could
 do multiple parts in absolute positioning, which would make my position
 in the part easier to read.
 
 Full Disclosure:  I have not used offsets in LinuxCNC yet.  (except
 where one got set without me knowing it, and I had to zero it out to get
 my desired result.)
 
While I found it invaluable when I was processing the output of pcb2gcode 
to make that encoder board double sided with enough accuracy I could drill 
a hole 60% of the boards thickness, turn the board over and drill that same 
hole from the other side with registration good enough I can't see a step 
offset in the walls of the hole in about a 100 power magnifying glass.  
With std acme screws no less.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene
Alaska:
A prelude to No.

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[Emc-users] Increase Damping

2012-05-19 Thread Jeshua Lacock

Greetings,

I seem to have the damping turned all the way up on my Gecko 320, but it is 
still underdamped.

Is it possible to increase damping with the PID settings (I am using the Pico 
Systems USC board)?

Would gearing down my drive further help with damping if I it is not possible 
to increase it any other way?

Thanks for any suggestions!


Best,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated
http://3DTOPO.com
Phone: 208.462.4171


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Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]

2012-05-19 Thread Jon Elson
Terry Christophersen wrote:
 LMC or LNC sounds good to m
Logical Microcomputer Company made Unix-based computers using the
Nat Semi 32016 CPU back in the late 80's.  The system was a dog, for
reasons I don't quite understand, maybe rotten compilers.  I'm pretty
sure they have been out of business for some time, but might be wise
to check to see if there are copyrights or trademarks on a name,
acronym or whatever before using it.  That's how we got in trouble
the first time.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping

2012-05-19 Thread Jon Elson
Jeshua Lacock wrote:
 Greetings,

 I seem to have the damping turned all the way up on my Gecko 320, but it is 
 still underdamped.

 Is it possible to increase damping with the PID settings (I am using the Pico 
 Systems USC board)?

 Would gearing down my drive further help with damping if I it is not possible 
 to increase it any other way?
   
Are you sure it is the G320 that is underdamped, or the whole system 
response,
including LinuxCNC?  Some amount of additional D in the PID should damp
it further, maybe.  But, maybe you just need to turn down the gain on 
the G320
and let LinuxCNC handle more of the gain.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]

2012-05-19 Thread Mark Cason
On 05/19/2012 07:52 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
 Terry Christophersen wrote:
 LMC or LNC sounds good to m
 Logical Microcomputer Company made Unix-based computers using the
 Nat Semi 32016 CPU back in the late 80's.  The system was a dog, for
 reasons I don't quite understand, maybe rotten compilers.  I'm pretty
 sure they have been out of business for some time, but might be wise
 to check to see if there are copyrights or trademarks on a name,
 acronym or whatever before using it.  That's how we got in trouble
 the first time.

 Jon

   LNC is taken, as is LMC.  LCNC appears to be available though.

-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping

2012-05-19 Thread Jeshua Lacock

On May 19, 2012, at 6:55 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

 I seem to have the damping turned all the way up on my Gecko 320, but it is 
 still underdamped.
 
 Is it possible to increase damping with the PID settings (I am using the 
 Pico Systems USC board)?
 
 Would gearing down my drive further help with damping if I it is not 
 possible to increase it any other way?
 
 Are you sure it is the G320 that is underdamped, or the whole system 
 response,
 including LinuxCNC?  Some amount of additional D in the PID should damp
 it further, maybe.  But, maybe you just need to turn down the gain on 
 the G320
 and let LinuxCNC handle more of the gain.

Hi Jon,

Well lets just say the only thing that I am sure about is the drive is 
under-damped.

;)

Tuning is proving to be insanely difficult for me, I guess mostly because I 
don't really have much of a clue what I am doing. It is also kind of scary 
because if I turn a POT on the Gecko just a tad in the wrong way the drive 
violently rattles the whole table.

When it was just the Gecko, that was something I had a grip on. But now it is a 
combination of the Gecko and the PID settings.

It may be that I am just trying to accelerate the drive faster than the system 
can adequately damp it. This gantry is probably close to 200 pounds, and I just 
don't know how fast I can expect to be able to accelerate it.

Does gearing a drive help with this? I seems in my mind it should. Gearing it 
down further would give me increased torque and resolution so seems like a win 
win.

In the meantime, I will try turning the gain POT down and the D up?


Best,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated
http://3DTOPO.com
Phone: 208.462.4171


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Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping

2012-05-19 Thread Steve Stallings
snip
 Hi Jon,
 
 Well lets just say the only thing that I am sure about is the 
 drive is under-damped.
 
 ;)
 
 Tuning is proving to be insanely difficult for me, I guess 
 mostly because I don't really have much of a clue what I am 
 doing. It is also kind of scary because if I turn a POT on 
 the Gecko just a tad in the wrong way the drive violently 
 rattles the whole table.
 
 When it was just the Gecko, that was something I had a grip 
 on. But now it is a combination of the Gecko and the PID settings.
 
 It may be that I am just trying to accelerate the drive 
 faster than the system can adequately damp it. This gantry is 
 probably close to 200 pounds, and I just don't know how fast 
 I can expect to be able to accelerate it.
 
 Does gearing a drive help with this? I seems in my mind it 
 should. Gearing it down further would give me increased 
 torque and resolution so seems like a win win.
 
 In the meantime, I will try turning the gain POT down and the D up?
 
 
 Best,
 
 Jeshua Lacock

Is this a G320 or a G320X? If it is a G320X there are internal
DIP switches that can be used to reduce the torque gain which
might help with stability.

Do your encoders have selectable resolution? A lower resolution
might also help tame the excessive response.

Regards,
Steve Stallings



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Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping

2012-05-19 Thread Jeshua Lacock

On May 19, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Steve Stallings wrote:

 Is this a G320 or a G320X? If it is a G320X there are internal
 DIP switches that can be used to reduce the torque gain which
 might help with stability.
 
 Do your encoders have selectable resolution? A lower resolution
 might also help tame the excessive response.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the suggestions!

But it is an older G320, and I currently have a fixed resolution on the encoder 
which is 1024 CPR.


Best,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated
http://3DTOPO.com
Phone: 208.462.4171


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Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]

2012-05-19 Thread charles green
three letters is only 17576 choices.  good bet they are all taken.  four 
alphanumeric is only 1.6 million choices.  eemmcc22?  llmmcc, llnncc??  
ellemcee. anLanMaC.

--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Mark Cason farmerboy1...@yahoo.com wrote:

 From: Mark Cason farmerboy1...@yahoo.com
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] A rose by any name? [Was: Not so custom]
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Saturday, May 19, 2012, 7:23 PM
 On 05/19/2012 07:52 PM, Jon Elson
 wrote:
  Terry Christophersen wrote:
  LMC or LNC sounds good to m
  Logical Microcomputer Company made Unix-based computers
 using the
  Nat Semi 32016 CPU back in the late 80's.  The
 system was a dog, for
  reasons I don't quite understand, maybe rotten
 compilers.  I'm pretty
  sure they have been out of business for some time, but
 might be wise
  to check to see if there are copyrights or trademarks
 on a name,
  acronym or whatever before using it.  That's how
 we got in trouble
  the first time.
 
  Jon
 
    LNC is taken, as is LMC.  LCNC
 appears to be available though.
 
 -- 
 -Mark
 
 Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
 Hope for the best, plan for the
 worst   ---Personal Motto
 
 
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 respond. Discussions 
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 latest in malware 
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