Re: [Emc-users] Pid saturated, was: Servo error

2012-12-28 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2012/12/28 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
 On 27 December 2012 21:36, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 7) wrote down counts pin value of -103 and saved as:

 10) if I try to jog that joint, pid immediately gets saturated
 11) if I comment out the encoder offset line like this:
 # setp bldc.0.encoder-offset -103
 then I can jog that joint

 It is likely that the encoder-offset needs to be the negative of the
 counts read, ie you need an encoder-offset of 103 so that the motor
 zero looks like encoder zero.

Forgot to mention that I already tried that and the result was the
same - pid saturated as soon as I tried to jog the joint. I will
retry.

And if I commented that line out, I was able to jog it, but it was
really asymmetrical, which makes me think that the motor is not homed
properly anyway.

Can I ask anyone share their configs for 7i39 card? Andrew, I remember
that You had them with some linear motors. Could You, please, share
the hal file? I still think that I am making some really stupid
mistake.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Help, out of inputs on my parport

2012-12-28 Thread Steve Blackmore
On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 02:34:37 -0500, you wrote:


Mainly the 3 weeks to a month it takes from mainland china for delivery.  
But since I've decided to sacrifice the one pin I was saving for a home 
pin, that is the path I'll take.

That seems a long time? I've had several packages from China most have
taken 4 or 5 days, none longer than 10 days from Shanghai to my doorstep
in UK. They are usually in the country within 48 hours, the delays are
always here!

Steve Blackmore
--

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Re: [Emc-users] Performance/Features of LinuxCNC compared to Kuka KRC2

2012-12-28 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2012/12/28 Florian Rist fr...@fs.tum.de:
 Hi Viesturs

   I agree with Andy about keeping servo amps.

 The problem is, that these amps are from Kuka and linked to the
 controller by some kind of bus system. At present I do not know anything
 about this bus.

Do You have any documentation to find out, if the drive will accept
analog or pwm signal? AFAIK there has been some work to get LinuxCNC
to work with EtherCAT (I have seen a video in youtube that shows it in
action), so if the drive has it, then there is a chance...

 Sure, on the other hand replacing all the electronics would enable me to
 by a used plain robot, these are cheap, and add the new LinuxCNC controller.

If I understand You correctly about purchasing simple robot and
putting LinuxCNC on it, I think that looking out for a Kuka or ABB
robot with damaged controls also is an option.

 Indeed that would be difficult, but motion in the Cartesian space
 (called linear movements in the Kuka Robot control Language (KRL)) would
 be enough. What about the powerful base coordinate system in KRL? I
 guess G68 and G92 could be used to partly mimic this feature. But I
 don't see a way to work in a tool tip coordinate system, neither does
 G42 provide the possibilities to specify an offset in xyzABC. So this
 would probably have to be implemented via a custom M command.

Sorry, my experience with Kuka control system is limited to 15 minutes
of taking a really close look at the arm itself, holding the control
pendant in hand, jogging it around a little and asking the owner
questions at a rate much faster than he managed to reply.

 What LinuxCNC would be able to do out of the box is tool radius
 compensation, though I don't real know how well this is implements for 5
 DOF movements. KRL can't do it at all.

AFAIK 5 axis tool radius compensation is not available at the moment,
and I have no idea what would it take to implement that. I guess that
some kind of workaround of doing this in kinematics module might be
possible.

 What I'm mostly interested would be a simple and fast way to control the
 motion of the robot from an external system by streaming location and
 orientation data at the speed of the main control loop and/or at the
 speed of the servo control loop. Almost all or all motion planing an
 tool path interpolation is than done external only the kinematic would
 be handled by LinuxCNC.

I am curious about the intended application of this concept - feeding
the position data from another application, because now it looks like
You are going to take out g-code interpreter, trajectory planner and
most probably some other modules, like i/o control, as well. What is
left is motion controller. Anything else?

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Re: [Emc-users] Pid saturated, was: Servo error

2012-12-28 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2012/12/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:

 This is very unlikely to do what you think it will (assuming default +-1.0 PWM
 ranges this will be 90% of full scale voltage so the 7I39 will current limit
 and you will not get anywhere near the current ratios you expect)


 I would try plain old Q mode (with maybe an init value of .1 or .2)

Ok, I did try in plan q mode, initvalue was 0.1
Bldc homes the motor - I can see it moving a little bit back and forth
before init-done pin goes high.
If I try to jog the motor, then pid immediately gets saturated and it
remains until following error is triggered. Sometimes it would get
saturated immediately after enabling motion with F2, but most of times
it would stay calm until I press a jog button again.


Here is a trace from halscope. I tried to check the consistency of
hall signals. They certainly do not seem like 60 degree hall pattern.
They are not overlapping evenly:
http://picpaste.com/hall-uneven-Yx5pzGTP.png

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Re: [Emc-users] Help, out of inputs on my parport

2012-12-28 Thread MC Cason
On 12/28/2012 03:10 AM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 02:34:37 -0500, you wrote:


 Mainly the 3 weeks to a month it takes from mainland china for delivery.
 But since I've decided to sacrifice the one pin I was saving for a home
 pin, that is the path I'll take.
 That seems a long time? I've had several packages from China most have
 taken 4 or 5 days, none longer than 10 days from Shanghai to my doorstep
 in UK. They are usually in the country within 48 hours, the delays are
 always here!

 Steve Blackmore
 --

   Here in the Southern part of the US,  It regularly takes between 10 
days, and 2 weeks for items to arrive from Shenzhen, or Hong Kong,  
Longer, from Shanghai, or Guandong.  The latest set of boards I had 
made, were air flighted out of Hong Kong, on the 19th. According to the 
tracking number, they haven't landed yet...

-- 
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Created by: Matthias Weißer



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Re: [Emc-users] Help, out of inputs on my parport

2012-12-28 Thread Kip Shaffer
Gene,
   Not sure if you would be interested in the approach I'm using, but it
may help you or others who are in a similar predicament.

You can use shift registers to add as many additional lines as you want.
 For example, you can take 3 output lines on your parallel port, and turn
them into 8, 16, 24 or more output lines.  Shift registers come in two
varieties: Serial-In Parallel-Out, which you would use to create more
output lines, and Parallel-In Serial-Out which you can use to create more
input lines.

I wrote a HAL module to implement my setup, which uses 4 pins on the
parallel port to create 16 output and 16 input lines.  I use these lines
for higher-latency signals, since it takes about 1 ms to shift all the bits
in and out.

There is a good article explaining it here:

http://robots.freehostia.com/Software/ShiftRegister/ShiftRegisterBody.html

-Kip


On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 5:15 AM, MC Cason farmerboy1...@yahoo.com wrote:

 On 12/28/2012 03:10 AM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
  On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 02:34:37 -0500, you wrote:
 
 
  Mainly the 3 weeks to a month it takes from mainland china for delivery.
  But since I've decided to sacrifice the one pin I was saving for a home
  pin, that is the path I'll take.
  That seems a long time? I've had several packages from China most have
  taken 4 or 5 days, none longer than 10 days from Shanghai to my doorstep
  in UK. They are usually in the country within 48 hours, the delays are
  always here!
 
  Steve Blackmore
  --

Here in the Southern part of the US,  It regularly takes between 10
 days, and 2 weeks for items to arrive from Shenzhen, or Hong Kong,
 Longer, from Shanghai, or Guandong.  The latest set of boards I had
 made, were air flighted out of Hong Kong, on the 19th. According to the
 tracking number, they haven't landed yet...

 --
 MC Cason - Assocaite Developer - Eagle3D
 Created by: Matthias Weißer




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Re: [Emc-users] Pid saturated, was: Servo error

2012-12-28 Thread Peter C. Wallace
On Fri, 28 Dec 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

 Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 12:04:26 +0200
 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pid saturated, was: Servo error
 
 2012/12/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:

 This is very unlikely to do what you think it will (assuming default +-1.0 
 PWM
 ranges this will be 90% of full scale voltage so the 7I39 will current limit
 and you will not get anywhere near the current ratios you expect)


 I would try plain old Q mode (with maybe an init value of .1 or .2)

 Ok, I did try in plan q mode, initvalue was 0.1
 Bldc homes the motor - I can see it moving a little bit back and forth
 before init-done pin goes high.
 If I try to jog the motor, then pid immediately gets saturated and it
 remains until following error is triggered. Sometimes it would get
 saturated immediately after enabling motion with F2, but most of times
 it would stay calm until I press a jog button again.

M mode should work as long as you dont have a lot of static torque on the 
motor (you need to wire bldc.init to machine on so it goes through a homing 
cycle every machine on)

You can try init values up to the point that the 7I39 current limits (red 
LED) in case .1 is not enough

Also make sure the offset value is 0 for M mode




 Here is a trace from halscope. I tried to check the consistency of
 hall signals. They certainly do not seem like 60 degree hall pattern.
 They are not overlapping evenly:
 http://picpaste.com/hall-uneven-Yx5pzGTP.png

 -- 
 Viesturs

 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
()_() signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Help, out of inputs on my parport

2012-12-28 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 28 December 2012 08:51:33 Kip Shaffer did opine:

Great Kip, bookmarked FFR.  Thanks.

 Gene,
Not sure if you would be interested in the approach I'm using, but it
 may help you or others who are in a similar predicament.
 
 You can use shift registers to add as many additional lines as you want.
  For example, you can take 3 output lines on your parallel port, and
 turn them into 8, 16, 24 or more output lines.  Shift registers come in
 two varieties: Serial-In Parallel-Out, which you would use to create
 more output lines, and Parallel-In Serial-Out which you can use to
 create more input lines.
 
 I wrote a HAL module to implement my setup, which uses 4 pins on the
 parallel port to create 16 output and 16 input lines.  I use these lines
 for higher-latency signals, since it takes about 1 ms to shift all the
 bits in and out.
 
 There is a good article explaining it here:
 
 http://robots.freehostia.com/Software/ShiftRegister/ShiftRegisterBody.ht
 ml
 
 -Kip
 
 On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 5:15 AM, MC Cason farmerboy1...@yahoo.com 
wrote:
  On 12/28/2012 03:10 AM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
   On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 02:34:37 -0500, you wrote:
   Mainly the 3 weeks to a month it takes from mainland china for
   delivery. But since I've decided to sacrifice the one pin I was
   saving for a home pin, that is the path I'll take.
   
   That seems a long time? I've had several packages from China most
   have taken 4 or 5 days, none longer than 10 days from Shanghai to
   my doorstep in UK. They are usually in the country within 48 hours,
   the delays are always here!
   
   Steve Blackmore
   --
   
 Here in the Southern part of the US,  It regularly takes between 10
  
  days, and 2 weeks for items to arrive from Shenzhen, or Hong Kong,
  Longer, from Shanghai, or Guandong.  The latest set of boards I had
  made, were air flighted out of Hong Kong, on the 19th. According to
  the tracking number, they haven't landed yet...
  
  --
  MC Cason - Assocaite Developer - Eagle3D
  Created by: Matthias Weiكer
  
  
  
  
  --
   Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API
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Re: [Emc-users] Help, out of inputs on my parport

2012-12-28 Thread Dave
On 12/28/2012 5:15 AM, MC Cason wrote:
 On 12/28/2012 03:10 AM, Steve Blackmore wrote:

 On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 02:34:37 -0500, you wrote:


  
 Mainly the 3 weeks to a month it takes from mainland china for delivery.
 But since I've decided to sacrifice the one pin I was saving for a home
 pin, that is the path I'll take.

 That seems a long time? I've had several packages from China most have
 taken 4 or 5 days, none longer than 10 days from Shanghai to my doorstep
 in UK. They are usually in the country within 48 hours, the delays are
 always here!

 Steve Blackmore
 --
  
 Here in the Southern part of the US,  It regularly takes between 10
 days, and 2 weeks for items to arrive from Shenzhen, or Hong Kong,
 Longer, from Shanghai, or Guandong.  The latest set of boards I had
 made, were air flighted out of Hong Kong, on the 19th. According to the
 tracking number, they haven't landed yet...


It is a long flight from China... but not that long!  ;-)

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] Help, out of inputs on my parport

2012-12-28 Thread Przemek Klosowski

  Also, there are lots of TTL to USB and RS232 converters already
 assembled on Ebay - very cheap.

 Cheap until you check the shipping... :(


Nah, shipping is often free from HongKong; it just takes a while:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-USB-2-0-to-TTL-UART-6PIN-Module-Serial-Converter-CP2102-STC-PRGMR-/251039347548?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3a731c735c

http://dx.com/p/cp2102-usb-to-ttl-converter-module-red-146141

I am not necessarily recommending those units for your needs, I just used
Chinese suppliers on eBay and DealExtreme for gadgets like that, and so far
I had decent luck with them.
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Re: [Emc-users] Help, out of inputs on my parport

2012-12-28 Thread Ben Potter
 Also, there are lots of TTL to USB and RS232 converters already
 assembled on Ebay - very cheap.
 
 Cheap until you check the shipping... :(
 

I've almost been caught out by this a few times - sometimes the shipping is
reasonable (or free), sometimes the shipping is more than the cost of the
item. It pays to read the fine print - especially when there are 10+
identical items with different shipping amounts listed.

 
 Nah, shipping is often free from HongKong; it just takes a while:
 
 

Oddly enough I've had more problems getting shipping from the US to the UK
than from Asia - Two parcels, ordered within a day of each other. The first
(from Mesa Electronics) arrived in 4 days. The day after I got the demand
from customs for duty - somewhat unusual (Usually customs here hold the item
for about a week, then send out (via second class post, which takes another
week) a demand for payment backdated to when it arrived in the country)

The second parcel (from another supplier) didn't arrive well, so I
thought - contacted the seller and got a refund. *Three months* later, it
arrives - checked the postmark - which was the day I ordered it, checked the
shipping method - USPS first class. Then resent the money to the supplier,
exchanged a few jokes about USPS and shrugged. No demand for payment from
customs on this one... yet.

Items from Asia usually take about 5 days (for small airmailed items) to 3
months (for larger items) - what happens when it hits customs is anybody's
guess.



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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] LinuxCNC driver support in upcomingLinuxCNC version

2012-12-28 Thread Javier Ros
Hi,

I'm using motenc, so it would be nice if it can get supported.

 I'm a bit lost with the thousand of threads related to new
developments, as I don't have too much spare time ultimately, but if
it can be run on top ubuntu 10.04, I think I will be able to give it a
try.

Where can I get more specific instructions about the trials I should
make (Xenomai user, RT-PREEMPT,...), and about how to proceed (which
repo -precise git instruction can be valuable here- and how to get the
required kernels)?.

By the way I'm really impressed with this all new HAL thing!!!.

Also impressed with technical EXCELLENCE of the guys working in this
project!!!.
Many thanks to all for all this absolutely great work!!!.

Javier

On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote:
 Work on newer realtime operating system support for LinuxCNC now has reached 
 a stage where early testers are trying it out and things look promising (this 
 is not yet packaged however).

 So far, the Mesanet cards, and most devices on a parallel port should work.

 However, there are some drivers whose status is unclear - whether they work, 
 and are still in use.

 I would appreciate feedback if anybody is interested in support for one of 
 the following drivers, and can actually test whether this works:

 hal_gm
 hal_motenc
 hal_vti
 opto_ac5
 pci_8255

 thanks in advance,

 - Michael



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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC driver support in upcomingLinuxCNC version

2012-12-28 Thread Michael Haberler
Hi Javier,

Am 29.12.2012 um 02:05 schrieb Javier Ros:

 Hi,
 
 I'm using motenc, so it would be nice if it can get supported.
 
 I'm a bit lost with the thousand of threads related to new
 developments, as I don't have too much spare time ultimately, but if
 it can be run on top ubuntu 10.04, I think I will be able to give it a
 try.

No wonder - it's been quite a journey, but it's tapering down - the worst is 
over. Eventually no significant end-user changes should remain.

 Where can I get more specific instructions about the trials I should
 make (Xenomai user, RT-PREEMPT,...), and about how to proceed (which
 repo -precise git instruction can be valuable here- and how to get the
 required kernels)?.

If you feel confident to fetch and build linuxcnc from a git repository, then 
we could give it a try; note that just for driver functionality test (loads, 
wiggles pins, unloads fine) we do not strictly need a new kernel; to actually 
run the thing with decent performance a new kernel install would be needed.

I'll condense the flurry of emails into a Wiki page and we'll go from there.

- Michael

 By the way I'm really impressed with this all new HAL thing!!!.
 
 Also impressed with technical EXCELLENCE of the guys working in this
 project!!!.

 Many thanks to all for all this absolutely great work!!!.
 
 Javier
 
 On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote:
 Work on newer realtime operating system support for LinuxCNC now has reached 
 a stage where early testers are trying it out and things look promising 
 (this is not yet packaged however).
 
 So far, the Mesanet cards, and most devices on a parallel port should work.
 
 However, there are some drivers whose status is unclear - whether they work, 
 and are still in use.
 
 I would appreciate feedback if anybody is interested in support for one of 
 the following drivers, and can actually test whether this works:
 
 hal_gm
 hal_motenc
 hal_vti
 opto_ac5
 pci_8255
 
 thanks in advance,
 
 - Michael
 
 
 
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