Re: [Emc-users] DRO failureType FAGOR 0-300 (spanish made)

2014-01-09 Thread Mark Wendt
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:49 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:


 Pretty good take on it Gregg.

 I recall once, back in the late '80's, on an old character generator that
 had a sticky key problem, so I flushed it all out, several years worth of
 grit mixed with hand creams of dubious ancestry, with wd-40.  3 days later
 it had lost 3 keys.  I called the CG folks who practically fainted when I
 said I had used wd-40 to clean it.

 They said put the phone down, and run, don't walk to the dishwasher, put it
 in the top rack and run at least 3 cycles with the last using just a squirt
 of palmolive.  Turned out that the $16/copy Cherry brand key switches were
 hall effect devices that were being poisoned by the wd-40's petroleum
 content.  In the end I wound up replacing 7 of them.  It was a pretty heavy
 duty keyboard, similar to the old IBM's that weighed about 5 lbs and could
 be used to smash a skull in a pinch. It had by then probably typed a
 million words or more.  And it probably did another million by the time we
 retired it 10+ years later.

 Cheers, Gene



Tektronix had a rather nifty wash booth they used to clean up cruddy old
scopes and other test equipment brought in for repair and/or cal.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/tektronix_washing_your_instrument.html

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] DRO failureType FAGOR 0-300 (spanish made)

2014-01-09 Thread Gregg Eshelman
On 1/9/2014 3:26 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:

 Tektronix had a rather nifty wash booth they used to clean up cruddy old
 scopes and other test equipment brought in for repair and/or cal.

 http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/tektronix_washing_your_instrument.html

Motors--Apply 1-2 drops of thin oil. (WD-40 is suitable) .

Uh, no, it's not! WD-40 is not a lubricant.


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Re: [Emc-users] DRO failureType FAGOR 0-300 (spanish made)

2014-01-09 Thread Mark Wendt
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote:

 On 1/9/2014 3:26 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:

  Tektronix had a rather nifty wash booth they used to clean up cruddy old
  scopes and other test equipment brought in for repair and/or cal.
 
  http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/tektronix_washing_your_instrument.html

 Motors--Apply 1-2 drops of thin oil. (WD-40 is suitable) .

 Uh, no, it's not! WD-40 is not a lubricant.


They wrote that many, many moons ago.  ;-)

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Ramped feed rate, unlurking... And new request for assistance

2014-01-09 Thread andy pugh
On 9 January 2014 04:17, Andy a...@evanspt.com wrote:

 What are you using to generate the step pulses?
 Andy, pardon my ignorance, what /would/ be generating the pulses?

Either software (through the parallel port or other GPIO) or a
hardware-based step generator such as a Pico, Mesa, Pluto, Motenc
card.

  The PC is a Gigabyte E350N mini_ITX feeding a break-out board.

That sounds like a parallel-port and software step generation setup then.
There is no risk there of hitting the 200kHz limit, you will be doing
well to get 20kHz.
it would be interesting to know what step rates you are seeing, there
may be extra performance to be had with external step generation.

 The machine seems to be working when I use 10ns for step and 5ns for
 direction.

Do you mean microseconds or nanoseconds? It is possible that the
system will work with nanoseconds specified, but only because the
parallel port can't do nanosecond pulses and will end up outputting
the shortest pulses it can manage. If you are lucky those will be long
enough.

   I am just not completely comfortable without knowing those
 values are optimum.

The values need to be long enough to trigger the drives, and that is
all. It's a digital thing, there is no optimum just long enough
You only need to worry about reducing the values if you are trying for
very high step rates.

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Re: [Emc-users] Ramped feed rate, unlurking... And new request for assistance

2014-01-09 Thread Chris Morley



 
I am just not completely comfortable without knowing those
  values are optimum.
 
 The values need to be long enough to trigger the drives, and that is
 all. It's a digital thing, there is no optimum just long enough
 You only need to worry about reducing the values if you are trying for
 very high step rates.
 
 -- 
 atp
 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
 

They have to be long enough to trigger the drives _reliably_.
Including taking into account jitter.

Here is an old but interesting write up of software stepgens:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
It's out of date because it doesn't discuss paraport double stepping.

Chris M
  
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Re: [Emc-users] DRO failureType FAGOR 0-300 (spanish made)

2014-01-09 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 09 January 2014 08:57:47 Mark Wendt did opine:

 On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:49 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  Pretty good take on it Gregg.
  
  I recall once, back in the late '80's, on an old character generator
  that had a sticky key problem, so I flushed it all out, several years
  worth of grit mixed with hand creams of dubious ancestry, with wd-40.
   3 days later it had lost 3 keys.  I called the CG folks who
  practically fainted when I said I had used wd-40 to clean it.
  
  They said put the phone down, and run, don't walk to the dishwasher,
  put it in the top rack and run at least 3 cycles with the last using
  just a squirt of palmolive.  Turned out that the $16/copy Cherry
  brand key switches were hall effect devices that were being poisoned
  by the wd-40's petroleum content.  In the end I wound up replacing 7
  of them.  It was a pretty heavy duty keyboard, similar to the old
  IBM's that weighed about 5 lbs and could be used to smash a skull in
  a pinch. It had by then probably typed a million words or more.  And
  it probably did another million by the time we retired it 10+ years
  later.
  
  Cheers, Gene
 
 Tektronix had a rather nifty wash booth they used to clean up cruddy old
 scopes and other test equipment brought in for repair and/or cal.
 
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/tektronix_washing_your_instrument.html
 
 Mark

Interesting Mark.  But I've never sent anything back to tek for repairs.

When tek started to use the federal 5 year rule for parts availability to 
drive sales of new stuff was when I gave up on tek.  When I walked in the 
door at WDTV in Oct '84, my predecessor had just bought a new 2235 scope.  

The tube was a POS with severe focusing problems and I immediately called 
the rep in Pittsburgh to get it replaced while it was still in warranty.  

No  soap, it was good enough for them.  I banged on them 2 or 3 times, 
because when I look at a scope trace and see a ghost sticking out of a spot 
1/8 away, there really isn't a way to decide if its a duff tube, or noise 
in  the circuit.  This was in late 84 and things haven't improved.  I put 
up with it for a few months, and finally convinced Mel I had to have a 
replacement tube or a replacement scope.  He OK'd the tube, I bought it and 
put it in myself.  Huge improvement.  But in about 90, I began to note that 
the input attenuators on both sides were getting so out of whack in the 
frequency comp department that it was no longer capable of maintaining the 
10x probes calibration when changing the range switch.  So I got out the 
manual, and called tek to buy new ones as they are ceramic plates with the 
resistors and capacitors printed on the plate  baked on, totally non 
repairable.

They didn't have any, it had been out of production for more than 5 years.  
Since I needed a scope that didn't lie to me, I went shopping and a year or 
so later bought a Hitachi V-1065 which served well, worked perfectly until 
I needed a 4 trace to be able to correctly setup the dvc-pro tape machines 
we had by then bought 15 of.  So I traded the 1065 in on the top of the 
line 200mhz model, but that one had triggering problems so I backed down to 
the same thing in the 100mhz flavor, which did not have the triggering 
problem.  That scope is still in daily use, although not like I used it, by 
my successor, and I would assume not seriously out of calibration yet and 
its now at least 20 yo.  In the meantime, we had hired a pair of starving 
college  night school dropouts, and the guy had some stuff left over from 
a computer course he had taken which included a Hitachi V-1065 in mint 
condition, and which was then in their catalogs at $2750 new yet, wanted 
$1200 for it, I paid him $200 every payday for 3 months for it.  Still have 
it. The range switches are getting noisy  need exercised to work right and 
the timebase is off a bit but the computer still gives the correct answers 
even if the trace misses the graticle marks by 10%.

Their frequency rolloff at the high end, unlike the tek's brick wall, is 
generally just a loss of peak to peak ability, but I have used it to look 
directly at the output of a channel 8 transmitter, nominally 180 mhz to 
determine modulation depth, comparing it to a junk demodulator, coming to 
the conclusion that the demod truly was junk, something originally built 
for the cable industry.  Very little is as believable as a Rhoade and 
Swarze AMF, but then that puppy was also $25,000 in its day, when I was 
making $9,000 year  thought it was good money.  State of the art today, if 
we were still doing analog, would be an MSI-320 at about $5500. But you had 
better have a fresh calibration certificate, their business model demands 
it at least annually.

Now of coarse we are doing digital, and the test  verification gear to 
monitor us accurately has quadrupled in price, but we are also 10x more 
needful of the accuracy than we ever were in the analog days.

TBT, tek is 

Re: [Emc-users] DRO failureType FAGOR 0-300 (spanish made)

2014-01-09 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 09 January 2014 10:10:49 Gregg Eshelman did opine:

 On 1/9/2014 3:26 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
  Tektronix had a rather nifty wash booth they used to clean up cruddy
  old scopes and other test equipment brought in for repair and/or cal.
  
  http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/tektronix_washing_your_instrument.htm
  l
 
 Motors--Apply 1-2 drops of thin oil. (WD-40 is suitable) .
 
 Uh, no, it's not! WD-40 is not a lubricant.
 
In fact, its wax will dry and plug up the pores in an oilite bushing, 
reducing the motors life considerably.  Don't ask me how I know.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] DRO failureType FAGOR 0-300 (spanish made)

2014-01-09 Thread andy pugh
On 9 January 2014 10:59, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Uh, no, it's not! WD-40 is not a lubricant.

Spray it on your motorcycle seat and see if you still think that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 describes it as a lubricant in many
places, and it is made from oil.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] DRO failureType FAGOR 0-300 (spanish made)

2014-01-09 Thread Dave Caroline
WD-40 is drying oil rather than a non drying oil, it leaves a gummy
deposit, it is one of the worst things to put on a clock mechanism.

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] glade cant find gladevcp

2014-01-09 Thread Owen White
Thank you Philipp - would you mind providing the specific version number of
glade-gtk2 that you are using?

  thanks,
   owen

Philipp Burch phip@... writes:


 Hi Owen,

 you should probably use the older glade-gtk2. Glade3 failed for me as
well
with this error message.

 Cheers,
 Philipp

 - Original message -
  Everyone,
 
  my linuxcnc environment was installed on ubuntu 12.04 using the
  instructions here:
 
  http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_On_Ubuntu_Precise
 
  which did not involve run-in-place, linuxcnc was installed using
 
  sudu apt-get install linuxcnc
 
  $ export GLADE_MODULE_PATH=/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/gladevcp
  $ export GLADE_CATALOG_PATH=/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/gladevcp
 
  $ glade-3 --version
  glade3 3.8.0
 
  $ cd /home/≤username/linuxcnc/configs/sim.gmoccapy.gmoccapy_plasma/
  $ linuxcnc gmoccapy_plasma.ini
  $ glade-3 plasma.glade
 
  gives the error message:
 
  Failed to load /home/owhite/linuxcnc/configs/plasma/plasma.glade.
  The following required catalogs are unavailable: gladevcp
 
  the output of lsmod is here:
  http://pastebin.ca/2530141
 
  this page here:
  http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/gladevcp.html says I should be able to
  run glade on
  manual-example.ui
 
  well hey, I have a copy of that lets check it out:
  $ cd /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim
  $ glade-3 manual-example.ui
 
  this also breaks, complaining:
  Failed to load
  /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/manual-example.ui.
  The following required catalogs are unavailable: gladevcp
 
  any suggestions?
 
  owen
  
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Re: [Emc-users] Ramped feed rate

2014-01-09 Thread Andy
The machine seems to be working when I use 10ns for step and 5ns for 
direction.

 Do you mean microseconds or nanoseconds? It is possible that the
 system will work with nanoseconds specified, but only because the
 parallel port can't do nanosecond pulses and will end up outputting
 the shortest pulses it can manage. If you are lucky those will be long
 enough.

My mistake, the numbers input in nanoseconds 10,000 and 5,000 I meant 10 
microseconds and 5 microseconds.  With measured jitter the base period came out 
at 22,000.

I won't assume that I won't be needing high step rates, given drive ratios etc, 
but my intuition tells me that I'm not asking for a lot.  Thanks Chris!

And with regard to opto-isolators, I have installed a KL-DB25RS, 6 axis board 
with isolators:

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/breakout-boards/kl-db25rs

As I can't see any spec for the opto-isolators, I'm liking Gene's suggestion of 
setting up a deliberate test to see the point of failure.  Sounds useful for my 
first machine, too!  We put very conservative values on acceleration and speed 
on it, and by upping those I suspect we could make a meaningful improvement to 
the bottom line.


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[Emc-users] MachineKit : Active high Step pulses?

2014-01-09 Thread Mark Tucker
I am currently thinking of switching to the BBB And Machinekit to run my cnc 
Router.
But the first snag seems to be the Step pulse and no way of inverting it?
I am using Gecko 201s on all 3 axis which require The step pulse to be active 
low (Pulse on high to low transition)
Whilst i realise this seems to be coded in the PRU,How hard is it to change?
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Re: [Emc-users] MachineKit : Active high Step pulses?

2014-01-09 Thread Charles Steinkuehler
On 1/9/2014 1:32 PM, Mark Tucker wrote:
 I am currently thinking of switching to the BBB And Machinekit to run my cnc 
 Router.
 But the first snag seems to be the Step pulse and no way of inverting it?
 I am using Gecko 201s on all 3 axis which require The step pulse to be active 
 low (Pulse on high to low transition)
 Whilst i realise this seems to be coded in the PRU,How hard is it to change?

Not terribly hard.

Just inverting the pulse for all step outputs would mean changing a
couple lines of code (very easy).  Making the pulse polarity
configurable would require a bit more work.

I've got a collection of PRU work I need tackle soon, including adding a
software encoder input (for a jog-wheel and for Michael Haberler's pet
project) and a bunch of general cleanup to make pin numbering consistent
(so I can begin documenting things).

I'll see if I can't tackle your step polarity issue while I'm making the
other changes.  What sort of time-frame are you working with?

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net



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Re: [Emc-users] glade cant find gladevcp

2014-01-09 Thread Philipp Burch
Hi Owen,

have a look:

$ glade-gtk2 --version
glade3 3.8.0
$ glade --version
glade 3.12.1

The About-Box of glade-gtk2 also shows 3.8.0. So the version of glade
and the version of GTK seem to be mostly unrelated...

Regards,
Philipp

On 01/09/2014 05:42 PM, Owen White wrote:
 Thank you Philipp - would you mind providing the specific version number of
 glade-gtk2 that you are using?
 
   thanks,
owen
 
 Philipp Burch phip@... writes:
 

 Hi Owen,

 you should probably use the older glade-gtk2. Glade3 failed for me as
 well
 with this error message.

 Cheers,
 Philipp

 - Original message -
 Everyone,

 my linuxcnc environment was installed on ubuntu 12.04 using the
 instructions here:

 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_On_Ubuntu_Precise

 which did not involve run-in-place, linuxcnc was installed using

 sudu apt-get install linuxcnc

 $ export GLADE_MODULE_PATH=/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/gladevcp
 $ export GLADE_CATALOG_PATH=/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/gladevcp

 $ glade-3 --version
 glade3 3.8.0

 $ cd /home/≤username/linuxcnc/configs/sim.gmoccapy.gmoccapy_plasma/
 $ linuxcnc gmoccapy_plasma.ini
 $ glade-3 plasma.glade

 gives the error message:

 Failed to load /home/owhite/linuxcnc/configs/plasma/plasma.glade.
 The following required catalogs are unavailable: gladevcp

 the output of lsmod is here:
 http://pastebin.ca/2530141

 this page here:
 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/gladevcp.html says I should be able to
 run glade on
 manual-example.ui

 well hey, I have a copy of that lets check it out:
 $ cd /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim
 $ glade-3 manual-example.ui

 this also breaks, complaining:
 Failed to load
 /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/manual-example.ui.
 The following required catalogs are unavailable: gladevcp

 any suggestions?

 owen
 
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[Emc-users] MachineKit : Active high Step pulses?

2014-01-09 Thread Mark Tucker
Charles

No rush,just thinking of ordering the hardware and this is a showstopper.
Jeff at xylotex has offered to supply his db25 board with some hardware change 
to invert the step and dir signals.
But i thought it might be a software change that i could make.

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning problem

2014-01-09 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/02/2014 08:42 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
 On 01/02/2014 03:44 PM, Ed wrote:
 Yah, it is weird. All axis resist movement in the positive
 direction strongly and the amp faults easily in the
 negative. If I apply pressure very slowly in the negative
 it will resist somewhat but a rapid movement will fault it.

So, any further testing with this?  I could take all the 
boards back and
test them here, but if it is somehow related to the 
installation, I
wouldn't find anything wrong.

Jon

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