Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
On 2/19/2015 10:02 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> Trademarking doesn't do much other than allowing someone/thing to take
> some ownership of a name to make sure that someone else can't openly use
> the same "name".
>
> Remember when EMC2 became LinuxCNC?  That was due to what EMC saw as a
> trademark infringement.  (Which I still think was BS..  )

World Wildlife Fund VS World Wrestling Federation, over the letters WWF. 
They claimed "damages" from being "forced" to have to always spell out 
their full name and use their panda bear logo to avoid "confusion" with 
the wrestling company. If I had Donald Trump money I'd sue them for 
abandonment of trademark since they have not sued EVERY organization or 
company on Earth with the initials WWF. If you're going to abuse the law 
over three letters being used by a completely unrelated business, you'd 
better be prepared to sue *everyone* using those letters.

FranklinCovey has a trademark on "7 Habits", from "The 7 Habits of 
Highly Effective People". They do NOT have a trademark on "Seven 
Habits", though they have repeatedly tried to get one.

Use a phrase like "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates" in a 
somewhat popular webcomic and FranklinCovey will send a C&D letter, 
despite there being no trademark infringement. If it came to a lawsuit, 
they'd probably win despite not having a legal leg to stand on, just 
like the World Wildlife Fund.

It rather irritates me to see successful intimidation and lawsuits that 
are such gross misrepresentations and violations of trademark law.

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Re: [Emc-users] new prerelease: 2.7.0~pre3

2015-02-19 Thread alex chiosso 
Thank you so much for all the efforts, time and passion filled into this
project.

Alex :-)
Il giorno 20/feb/2015 05:31, "Sebastian Kuzminsky"  ha
scritto:

> We just reached a milestone in the ongoing work to stabilize the 2.7
> branch in preparation for the upcoming 2.7.0 release.  I present to you
> the 2.7.0~pre3 pre-release.
>
> The 2.7 branch contains a couple of significant improvements over the
> current stable 2.6 branch.  First among these is a new, faster
> trajectory planner developed by Rob Ellenberg (sponsored by Tormach),
> and Sam Sokolik.  The other major new feature is support for the
> RT-Preempt realtime kernel, developed by Jeff Epler.
>
> A ton of work has gone into this pre-release: fixing bugs, polishing
> rough edges, and improving the documentation.
>
> This pre-release is recommended for anyone who wants to try out the new
> highly anticipated features, or who wants to help test out the next
> stable version of LinuxCNC and report any bugs they find.
>
> The highlights of this pre-release are:
>
> * add moveoff, a simple jog-while-paused implementation
> * add uspace support to gm6 driver
> * removed probe_parport, it's no longer needed
> * fix an I/O region resource leak in RTAPI
> * fix several GUI bugs
> * fix several bugs in the new trajectory planner
> * hm2: fix bugs in EPP driver, Ethernet driver, and sserial driver
> * fix a dropped MDI bug in Task
> * improved docs
> * NML: implement command queue with reliable reception
> * improved test coverage
>
>
> Some demos of the new moveoff jog-while-paused feature are here:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY6hx7WBkO8
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGDq6620fPQ
>
>
> Instructions for making fresh installs:
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_getting_linuxcnc
>
> Instructions for upgrading from 2.6:
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_updating_linuxcnc
>
> If you are upgrading to 2.7.0~pre3 from LinuxCNC 2.6 or from an earlier
> pre-release of 2.7, you may need to update your machine configs.
> Details here:
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_updating_your_config
>
>
> Credits go to the folks who have been developing the new features &
> fixing the new (and old!) bugs, testing the new code & reporting bugs,
> helping out on the forums, mailing lists, and irc, and improving the
> documentation.
>
> The folks who committed to 2.7.0~pre3 are:
>
> * Andrew Kyrychenko
> * andy pugh
> * Bence Kovacs
> * Chris Morley
> * Chris Radek
> * Dewey Garrett
> * Jeff Epler
> * John Thornton
> * Michael Geszkiewicz
> * Mick (Arceye)
> * Moses McKnight
> * Norbert Schechner
> * Robert W. Ellenberg
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
On 2/19/2015 9:13 AM, Len Shelton wrote:
>
> Your logic falls apart when
>
> DISPLAY = PathPilot
>
> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>
> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>
> rather than:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>
> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>
> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)

I wonder if Tormach called up the Pilot Pen company and said they were 
going to be making a product with Pilot in the name?

Remember the original Palm Pilot PDA? Pilot Pen sued and the settlement 
included transitioning away from having Pilot in the name.

IMHO, Pilot Pen would have been better off taking advantage of the 
commonality and producing a line of luxury combination stylus/pens, 
naming the line Pilot for Palm Pilot. ;)

But usually companies go for the lawsuit first and never bother to think 
about taking advantage of an opportunity. Look up how Apple handed the 
Brazilian computer market to PC clones when they stomped Unitron into 
the mud instead of doing a licensed production deal to get around 
Brazil's computer import ban (lifted in 1992) and incorporating 
Unitron's smart people into their R&D system.

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[Emc-users] new prerelease: 2.7.0~pre3

2015-02-19 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky 
We just reached a milestone in the ongoing work to stabilize the 2.7
branch in preparation for the upcoming 2.7.0 release.  I present to you
the 2.7.0~pre3 pre-release.

The 2.7 branch contains a couple of significant improvements over the
current stable 2.6 branch.  First among these is a new, faster
trajectory planner developed by Rob Ellenberg (sponsored by Tormach),
and Sam Sokolik.  The other major new feature is support for the
RT-Preempt realtime kernel, developed by Jeff Epler.

A ton of work has gone into this pre-release: fixing bugs, polishing
rough edges, and improving the documentation.

This pre-release is recommended for anyone who wants to try out the new
highly anticipated features, or who wants to help test out the next
stable version of LinuxCNC and report any bugs they find.

The highlights of this pre-release are:

* add moveoff, a simple jog-while-paused implementation
* add uspace support to gm6 driver
* removed probe_parport, it's no longer needed
* fix an I/O region resource leak in RTAPI
* fix several GUI bugs
* fix several bugs in the new trajectory planner
* hm2: fix bugs in EPP driver, Ethernet driver, and sserial driver
* fix a dropped MDI bug in Task
* improved docs
* NML: implement command queue with reliable reception
* improved test coverage


Some demos of the new moveoff jog-while-paused feature are here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY6hx7WBkO8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGDq6620fPQ


Instructions for making fresh installs:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_getting_linuxcnc

Instructions for upgrading from 2.6:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_updating_linuxcnc

If you are upgrading to 2.7.0~pre3 from LinuxCNC 2.6 or from an earlier
pre-release of 2.7, you may need to update your machine configs.
Details here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_updating_your_config


Credits go to the folks who have been developing the new features &
fixing the new (and old!) bugs, testing the new code & reporting bugs,
helping out on the forums, mailing lists, and irc, and improving the
documentation.

The folks who committed to 2.7.0~pre3 are:

* Andrew Kyrychenko
* andy pugh
* Bence Kovacs
* Chris Morley
* Chris Radek
* Dewey Garrett
* Jeff Epler
* John Thornton
* Michael Geszkiewicz
* Mick (Arceye)
* Moses McKnight
* Norbert Schechner
* Robert W. Ellenberg


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.6.6

2015-02-19 Thread Marius Liebenberg 
A big thank you to all they guys working on improving the software. And 
all without remuneration.

-- Original Message --
From: "Sebastian Kuzminsky" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 

Sent: 2015-02-20 02:31:07
Subject: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.6.6

>I just released LinuxCNC 2.6.6, the latest bugfix release in the 2.6
>stable series. This contains several minor fixes, all users are
>encouraged to upgrade.
>
>The most important fixes in this release are:
>
>* Axis GUI: fix jog speed on machines with non-trivial kinematics
>* gmoccapy GUI: several bugfixes
>* pncconf: bettere watchdog timeout
>* halui: don't forget the Task mode when queueing MDI commands
>* bugfixes in pyvcp and gladevcp widgets
>* xhc-hb04: fix a memory leak
>* gm6: fix a DAC problem when reading 0V
>* comp: produce more robust components
>* add dependency on tclx, used by latency-histogram
>* improved docs
>
>The full list of changes is here:
>
>  http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Released_2.6.X
>
>As always, thanks to everyone who reports bugs, helps on the forums,
>mailing lists, and irc, and of course to the developers who fix bugs &
>add features. The folks who committed to 2.6.6 are:
>
>* Bence Kovacs
>* Chris Morley
>* Dewey Garrett
>* John Thornton
>* Mick (Arceye)
>* Moses McKnight
>* Norbert Schechner
>
>
>--
>Sebastian Kuzminsky
>
>--
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Re: [Emc-users] Who is the forum moderator?

2015-02-19 Thread Marius Liebenberg 
Hi Andy
I used to but no more. I get no emails at all from the forum. I tried to 
see if there was a setting on my profile but nothing. It is an automatic 
thing not so? If you are subscribed to a thread you get the 
notification.

-- Original Message --
From: "andy pugh" 
To: "Marius Liebenberg" ; "Enhanced Machine 
Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: 2015-02-20 01:37:08
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Who is the forum moderator?

>
>
>On 19 February 2015 at 17:49, Marius Liebenberg 
> wrote:
>>Does anyone know who the forum moderator might be? I am not getting 
>>post
>>notifications any more
>>
>I am one of them. You appear to have a lot of topic subscriptions, so 
>should be getting emails from them.
>
>--
>atp
>If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
On 2/19/2015 2:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:

> If I sold hardware, used LinuxCNC, and developed a proprietary user
> interface, with the purpose of providing the customer a superior
> ergonomic and comfortable feel when using my machines, then I would also
> refrain from making it OSS. (We have done well. A better TP is a much
> bigger prize.)

That's essentially what Apple has done with BSD, layered a fancy and 
proprietary user interface over an open source back end then called it OS X.

You can download the source code for the parts of OS X that are open 
source here http://www.opensource.apple.com/


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[Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.6.6

2015-02-19 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky 
I just released LinuxCNC 2.6.6, the latest bugfix release in the 2.6 
stable series.  This contains several minor fixes, all users are 
encouraged to upgrade.

The most important fixes in this release are:

* Axis GUI: fix jog speed on machines with non-trivial kinematics
* gmoccapy GUI: several bugfixes
* pncconf: bettere watchdog timeout
* halui: don't forget the Task mode when queueing MDI commands
* bugfixes in pyvcp and gladevcp widgets
* xhc-hb04: fix a memory leak
* gm6: fix a DAC problem when reading 0V
* comp: produce more robust components
* add dependency on tclx, used by latency-histogram
* improved docs

The full list of changes is here:

 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Released_2.6.X

As always, thanks to everyone who reports bugs, helps on the forums, 
mailing lists, and irc, and of course to the developers who fix bugs & 
add features.  The folks who committed to 2.6.6 are:

* Bence Kovacs
* Chris Morley
* Dewey Garrett
* John Thornton
* Mick (Arceye)
* Moses McKnight
* Norbert Schechner


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Who is the forum moderator?

2015-02-19 Thread andy pugh 
On 19 February 2015 at 17:49, Marius Liebenberg 
wrote:

> Does anyone know who the forum moderator might be? I am not getting post
> notifications any more
>
> I am one of them. You appear to have a lot of topic subscriptions, so
should be getting emails from them.

-- 
atp
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Andreas Pettersson 
This is correct, if they "distribute" the software in any way, they are 
supposed to provide the source
code within that distribution (See siemens and samsung installation 
discs). But later on with GPL you
were also supposed to publish your work for download (This is rarely 
followed). That is anyway the praxis
we work after when doing GPL licensed work at my company.

Trademarking a brand isn't the same as trademarking a piece of software. 
So well the Pathpilot
brand can and should be trademarked by Tormach, its theirs no question 
about that.
But i guess it should be clear what its based upon or derived from (if any).

// Andreas



Dave Cole skrev den 2015-02-19 18:02:
> Trademarking doesn't do much other than allowing someone/thing to take
> some ownership of a name to make sure that someone else can't openly use
> the same "name".
>
> Remember when EMC2 became LinuxCNC?  That was due to what EMC saw as a
> trademark infringement.  (Which I still think was BS..  )
>
> If their screen is a derived work and they offer to give the source code
> to anyone who buys the system, then I believe that they are perfectly ok
> when it comes to the GPL.
>
> Smithy used EMC2 as their machine controller for years.   They called it
> the EZTrol or something close to that.
> http://www.smithy.com/node/628
>
> As I recall, they never mentioned that they were using EMC2 as their
> controller in their product literature.  I don't know if Smithy ever
> contributed anything back to the EMC2 community.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 2/19/2015 11:13 AM, Len Shelton wrote:
>> Your logic falls apart when
>>
>>  DISPLAY = PathPilot
>>
>> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>>
>> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
>> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>>
>> rather than:
>> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>>
>> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>>
>> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)
>>
>>>Len
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>>> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
>>> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
>>> and see something like:
>>>
>>> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
>>> DISPLAY =  axis
>>>
>>> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
>>> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
>>> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>>>
>>
>>
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[Emc-users] Who is the forum moderator?

2015-02-19 Thread Marius Liebenberg 
Does anyone know who the forum moderator might be? I am not getting post 
notifications any more


-
Regards / Groete

Marius D. Liebenberg
+27 82 698 3251
+27 12 746 6064

.

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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Thursday, February 19, 2015 04:27:53 AM Andreas Pettersson wrote:
> There is actually a universal "drop-in" made by Nick Drobchenko over at
> the russian site "cnc club"
> He calls it "Features", and it a veeery flexible conversational..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkOJhT69WEc

Looks interesting, but I have a hard time understanding nick.

> Download link; https://github.com/cnc-club/linuxcnc-features

Got that, hope I don't forget it as it certainly looks to be useful on a 
lathe.
 
> // Andreas
> 
> John Alexander Stewart skrev den 2015-02-19 10:17:
> > Andy -
> > 
> >>> the LinuxCNC community develops a case of PathPilot envy, someone
> >>> will write an open source version.
> >> 
> >> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-
> >> macros
> >> 
> >> :-)
> > 
> > you have been elected to now do the same for Mills. :-)
> > 
> > John.

;-) See Andy? Sounds like a project to me!

Thanks Andreas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Dave Cole 
Trademarking doesn't do much other than allowing someone/thing to take 
some ownership of a name to make sure that someone else can't openly use 
the same "name".

Remember when EMC2 became LinuxCNC?  That was due to what EMC saw as a 
trademark infringement.  (Which I still think was BS..  )

If their screen is a derived work and they offer to give the source code 
to anyone who buys the system, then I believe that they are perfectly ok 
when it comes to the GPL.

Smithy used EMC2 as their machine controller for years.   They called it 
the EZTrol or something close to that.
http://www.smithy.com/node/628

As I recall, they never mentioned that they were using EMC2 as their 
controller in their product literature.  I don't know if Smithy ever 
contributed anything back to the EMC2 community.

Dave


On 2/19/2015 11:13 AM, Len Shelton wrote:
> Your logic falls apart when
>
> DISPLAY = PathPilot
>
> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>
> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>
> rather than:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>
> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>
> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)
>
>   >Len
>
>
>
> On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
>> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
>> and see something like:
>>
>> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
>> DISPLAY =  axis
>>
>> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
>> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
>> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot and offtopic

2015-02-19 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Thursday, February 19, 2015 03:00:10 AM Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> On 2/18/2015 7:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 08:50:21 PM Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> >> On 2/18/2015 7:07 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> In any event, I still think you paint them (Tormach) with much too
> >>> black a brush.
> >> 
> >> The company that deserves that is Makerbot. Another one is RAMBUS,
> >> where when Intel, Micron and some other companies went together to
> >> create a new computer memory standard to replace SDRAM, one member
> >> sneakily filed patents and trademarks on it all, then proceeded to
> >> file lawsuits.
> > 
> > Quite familiar with the RAMBUS debacle, but MakerBot seems to be a
> > new entry in the extra rectums dept.  Links plz, I like to stay
> > reasonably up to date.  But if no great coverage on slashdot, I've
> > likely slept thru it. My fault of course, but... ;-)
> 
> Makerbot was an early adopter and commercializer of the DIY Fusion
> Deposition Manufacturing technology, once the RepRap project got to the
> point of producing fully functional 3D printer designs.
> 
> Look up makerbot patent controversy
> 
> Makerbot was bought by 3D Systems. One of their products is a
> ridiculously overpriced 3D laser scanner, which can be built far
> cheaper with a turntable, any decent USB video camera, a laser line
> level and some free software.

IOW, these -bags used the same principles that RAMBUS used.  BTDT.  So 
I have to relate a story of a similar happening.

Back in the last decade of the last century, when the FCC re-wrote the EAS 
rules to make it far more informative, someone overheard a conversation in 
the coffee shop, scribbled it down on a napkin and ran to the patent 
office to patent the basic premise.  All of the broadcasters then had to 
spend 4 digit figures for new equipmeht. Our outlay was about $6,000 by 
the time we got it all hooked up as there were interface incompatibilities 
in all the offered devices.  But we made it work, that is what we do.

About 3 years later, this submarine patent holder surfaces and demands a 
use royalty of about $25,000 a year from every broadcaster in the country.

Most of us ignored the letter, but most of us also picked up the phone and 
bored the FCC a new, seriously over sized rectum, we were not about to be 
mandated to do this conversion by a government agency, at our expense, and 
then be billed for a use royalty _after_ the fact.  The FCC then went to 
the patent office with reams of prior art and managed to get them to 
invalidate the patent in record time, as in about 3 weeks after they 
whammed all the exhibits on the counter with suitable amounts of smoke 
emanating from their ears.  The patent holder, a Dimension something or 
other, took it to court and the judge spanked them verbally and with a 
hefty fine for wasting the courts time according to what we read in the 
industry rags later.  Since I had been quite vocal, getting ink in the 
industry rags on a couple different subjects, this being one of them, I'll 
have to admit my grin was a bit wider than my face had room for.

There is fair.  And there is not.  And there are a huge surplus of MBA's 
who will do anything to make a dollar, whether its fair and moral or not. 
Their view is its ok, if you don't get caught.

We need to bring back public hangings. It would go a long ways, properly 
applied, toward cleaning the gene pool.  It would make a much bigger 
impression on the wannabe's than a quiet room in the courthouse basement 
with only 4 or 5 witnesses & a shot or a shock.  I don't think they are 
serious, but some in Utah are making noise about bringing back the firing 
squad.  Either way, the key word is Public. Hiding it as we are want to 
do, only sends a faint whisper, when we need super bowl stadium level 
shouts.

But thats just me.  Sigh.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] pickconfig using gtk

2015-02-19 Thread Michael Haberler 
Daniel Rogge did a stab at replacing some part of the TCL code, namely 
pickconfig.tcl

I failed to do anything with it yet, but here it is anyway since this came up:

> Anfang der weitergeleiteten Nachricht:
> 
> Von: Daniel Rogge 
> ...
> 
> When tk/tcl goes away remind me to brush up the work I started on the 
> configuration selector back in Wichita (attached).
> 
> Rogge
> 


pickconfig.rar
Description: Binary data
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Pete Matos 
Where's the damn Like Button Len... LOL

Pete


On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Len Shelton  wrote:

>
> Your logic falls apart when
>
>DISPLAY = PathPilot
>
> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>
> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>
> rather than:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>
> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>
> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)
>
>  >Len
>
>
>
> On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
> > it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
> > and see something like:
> >
> > # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
> > DISPLAY =  axis
> >
> > then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a
> proprietary
> > replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
> > no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Len Shelton 

Your logic falls apart when

   DISPLAY = PathPilot

yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.

It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller

rather than:
Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC

...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.

Or maybe I am just crazy :-)

 >Len



On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
> and see something like:
>
> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
> DISPLAY =  axis
>
> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>




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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot

2015-02-19 Thread Pete Matos 
Oh man I keep thinking that maybe if we stop talking about RepRap and
Makerbot perhaps it will just go away sigh.

All I know is that they have taken what was once a free program
willingly contributed to by far too many smart folks to count with no eye
to anything but improving it and making it available for FREE to everyone
and have put a nicer UI on it and now are calling it their own and selling
it.  I HOPE they do the right thing and allow everyone to benefit from
their work on it BEYOND the TP  and that everyone will continue to develop
and share this amazing program in the LinuxCNC community including Tormach.
I could care less about precedences or legalities or what other companies
have done.  Doing the right thing is exactly that.  Just going to watch and
see what they say and do over the next little while and hope for the best.
Peace

Pete


On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Ralph Stirling <
ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu> wrote:

> Not quite, Gregg.  Makerbot was purchased by Stratasys,
> not 3D Systems.  Stratasys paid $400M, which is rather
> mind-boggling.  Stratasys has now sued Affinia, a much
> smaller maker of desktop 3d printers.  Affinia, fortunately,
> is large enough to fight back, and has challenged some
> Stratasys patents.
>
> -- Ralph
> 
> From: Gregg Eshelman [g_ala...@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 12:00 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot
>
> On 2/18/2015 7:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 08:50:21 PM Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> >> On 2/18/2015 7:07 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> In any event, I still think you paint them (Tormach) with much too
> >>> black a brush.
> >>
> >> The company that deserves that is Makerbot. Another one is RAMBUS,
> >> where when Intel, Micron and some other companies went together to
> >> create a new computer memory standard to replace SDRAM, one member
> >> sneakily filed patents and trademarks on it all, then proceeded to
> >> file lawsuits.
> >>
> > Quite familiar with the RAMBUS debacle, but MakerBot seems to be a new
> > entry in the extra rectums dept.  Links plz, I like to stay reasonably up
> > to date.  But if no great coverage on slashdot, I've likely slept thru
> it.
> > My fault of course, but... ;-)
>
> Makerbot was an early adopter and commercializer of the DIY Fusion
> Deposition Manufacturing technology, once the RepRap project got to the
> point of producing fully functional 3D printer designs.
>
> Look up makerbot patent controversy
>
> Makerbot was bought by 3D Systems. One of their products is a
> ridiculously overpriced 3D laser scanner, which can be built far cheaper
> with a turntable, any decent USB video camera, a laser line level and
> some free software.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot

2015-02-19 Thread Ralph Stirling 
Not quite, Gregg.  Makerbot was purchased by Stratasys,
not 3D Systems.  Stratasys paid $400M, which is rather
mind-boggling.  Stratasys has now sued Affinia, a much
smaller maker of desktop 3d printers.  Affinia, fortunately,
is large enough to fight back, and has challenged some
Stratasys patents.

-- Ralph

From: Gregg Eshelman [g_ala...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 12:00 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot

On 2/18/2015 7:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 08:50:21 PM Gregg Eshelman wrote:
>> On 2/18/2015 7:07 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> In any event, I still think you paint them (Tormach) with much too
>>> black a brush.
>>
>> The company that deserves that is Makerbot. Another one is RAMBUS,
>> where when Intel, Micron and some other companies went together to
>> create a new computer memory standard to replace SDRAM, one member
>> sneakily filed patents and trademarks on it all, then proceeded to
>> file lawsuits.
>>
> Quite familiar with the RAMBUS debacle, but MakerBot seems to be a new
> entry in the extra rectums dept.  Links plz, I like to stay reasonably up
> to date.  But if no great coverage on slashdot, I've likely slept thru it.
> My fault of course, but... ;-)

Makerbot was an early adopter and commercializer of the DIY Fusion
Deposition Manufacturing technology, once the RepRap project got to the
point of producing fully functional 3D printer designs.

Look up makerbot patent controversy

Makerbot was bought by 3D Systems. One of their products is a
ridiculously overpriced 3D laser scanner, which can be built far cheaper
with a turntable, any decent USB video camera, a laser line level and
some free software.

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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread R.L. Wurdack 
Has any of these guys read ""Just for Fun"" or ""Rebel Code"" ?

Trying to corner open source is a failed strategy.

Dick


- Original Message - 
From: "Erik Christiansen" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)


> On 18.02.15 14:35, Bruce Layne wrote:
>> Early on, I did say that I doubted a lot of that code will be open
>> source, and frankly I still do for the user interface and conversational
>> wizards.  They made a substantial investment to develop some of that
>> code and I think they'd probably like to keep some of that user
>> interface as a proprietary Tormach look and feel.
>
> If I sold hardware, used LinuxCNC, and developed a proprietary user
> interface, with the purpose of providing the customer a superior
> ergonomic and comfortable feel when using my machines, then I would also
> refrain from making it OSS. (We have done well. A better TP is a much
> bigger prize.)
>
> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
> and see something like:
>
> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
> DISPLAY =  axis
>
> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a 
> proprietary
> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>
> Incidentally, although I have not stopped to read the latest GPL
> version, the earlier one permitted code to be made open source by supply
> of relocatable object code in lieu of source code. That still allows the
> community to re-use the code, but keeps the source out of the hands of
> commercial competitors. To release the source is an act of good faith, I
> consider.
>
> It is easy to want something for nothing, but is it reasonable to want
> it all?
>
> ..
>
>> I'm curious how much Tormach developed in house not for legal reasons,
>> or "ethical" reasons, or because I'm a hater.  I'm curious because the
>> marketing part of this seems weird to me and I'd like to understand it.
>
> Tormach did develop it in-house. They did not hire another company to
> develop it, they hired a temporary employee - a contractor. It is their
> code - they own the copyright, and if they've assigned to us the right
> to use it too, then then it would be stupid to call it our code, just to
> try to deny their contribution. AIUI, that is not marketing, just simple
> reality - not very difficult to understand at all.
>
>> If I was doing the Tormach marketing, I'd play up the Free Open Source
>> Software aspect, brag about giving back to the community, while
>> expounding about the NEW & IMPROVED hard realtime reliability, the
>> enhanced features, etc.
>
> A competent marketer understands his market. It is unlikely that the
> majority of ready-to-eat machine buyers will have much understanding of
> FOSS - or give a damn. It seems a much wiser decision to stamp their
> brand on their product, thereby doing nothing to undermine the
> customer's feeling that it is fully supported by the vendor. Brand
> confidence is vital, I figure - the machines are not an insignificant
> investment for a hobbyist or small business.
>
> Erik
>
> -- 
> In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap,
> and much more difficult to find."  - Terry Pratchett
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Erik Christiansen 
On 18.02.15 14:35, Bruce Layne wrote:
> Early on, I did say that I doubted a lot of that code will be open 
> source, and frankly I still do for the user interface and conversational 
> wizards.  They made a substantial investment to develop some of that 
> code and I think they'd probably like to keep some of that user 
> interface as a proprietary Tormach look and feel.

If I sold hardware, used LinuxCNC, and developed a proprietary user
interface, with the purpose of providing the customer a superior
ergonomic and comfortable feel when using my machines, then I would also
refrain from making it OSS. (We have done well. A better TP is a much
bigger prize.)

If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
and see something like:

# Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
DISPLAY =  axis

then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.

Incidentally, although I have not stopped to read the latest GPL
version, the earlier one permitted code to be made open source by supply
of relocatable object code in lieu of source code. That still allows the
community to re-use the code, but keeps the source out of the hands of
commercial competitors. To release the source is an act of good faith, I
consider.

It is easy to want something for nothing, but is it reasonable to want
it all?

...

> I'm curious how much Tormach developed in house not for legal reasons, 
> or "ethical" reasons, or because I'm a hater.  I'm curious because the 
> marketing part of this seems weird to me and I'd like to understand it.  

Tormach did develop it in-house. They did not hire another company to
develop it, they hired a temporary employee - a contractor. It is their
code - they own the copyright, and if they've assigned to us the right
to use it too, then then it would be stupid to call it our code, just to
try to deny their contribution. AIUI, that is not marketing, just simple
reality - not very difficult to understand at all.

> If I was doing the Tormach marketing, I'd play up the Free Open Source 
> Software aspect, brag about giving back to the community, while 
> expounding about the NEW & IMPROVED hard realtime reliability, the 
> enhanced features, etc.

A competent marketer understands his market. It is unlikely that the
majority of ready-to-eat machine buyers will have much understanding of
FOSS - or give a damn. It seems a much wiser decision to stamp their
brand on their product, thereby doing nothing to undermine the
customer's feeling that it is fully supported by the vendor. Brand
confidence is vital, I figure - the machines are not an insignificant
investment for a hobbyist or small business.

Erik

-- 
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and much more difficult to find."  - Terry Pratchett

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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread Andreas Pettersson 
There is actually a universal "drop-in" made by Nick Drobchenko over at 
the russian site "cnc club"
He calls it "Features", and it a veeery flexible conversational..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkOJhT69WEc
Download link; https://github.com/cnc-club/linuxcnc-features

// Andreas

John Alexander Stewart skrev den 2015-02-19 10:17:
> Andy -
>
>>> the LinuxCNC community develops a case of PathPilot envy, someone will
>>> write an open source version.
>>>
>> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros
>>
>> :-)
>>
>>
> you have been elected to now do the same for Mills. :-)
>
> John.
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-19 Thread John Alexander Stewart 
Andy -

>
> > the LinuxCNC community develops a case of PathPilot envy, someone will
> > write an open source version.
> >
>
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros
>
> :-)
>
>
you have been elected to now do the same for Mills. :-)

John.
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Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot

2015-02-19 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
On 2/18/2015 7:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 08:50:21 PM Gregg Eshelman wrote:
>> On 2/18/2015 7:07 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> In any event, I still think you paint them (Tormach) with much too
>>> black a brush.
>>
>> The company that deserves that is Makerbot. Another one is RAMBUS,
>> where when Intel, Micron and some other companies went together to
>> create a new computer memory standard to replace SDRAM, one member
>> sneakily filed patents and trademarks on it all, then proceeded to
>> file lawsuits.
>>
> Quite familiar with the RAMBUS debacle, but MakerBot seems to be a new
> entry in the extra rectums dept.  Links plz, I like to stay reasonably up
> to date.  But if no great coverage on slashdot, I've likely slept thru it.
> My fault of course, but... ;-)

Makerbot was an early adopter and commercializer of the DIY Fusion 
Deposition Manufacturing technology, once the RepRap project got to the 
point of producing fully functional 3D printer designs.

Look up makerbot patent controversy

Makerbot was bought by 3D Systems. One of their products is a 
ridiculously overpriced 3D laser scanner, which can be built far cheaper 
with a turntable, any decent USB video camera, a laser line level and 
some free software.

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