Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Danny Miller]

There should be a "P" and "N" terminal.  THAT is the connection for the 
external braking resistor on your Huanyang.

BTW, another point- I have seen (but not worked with) a "DC brake" 
feature on both my X200 and your Huanyang.

I believe that's because regen braking becomes much less effective at 
low RPM.  It injects a DC current on the winding which causes 
considerable additional drag on the core at low RPM.  But, like I say, I 
haven't tried it out.  There are warnings about overheating the 
spindle's poles if the current is specified too high or for too long.

Danny


On 3/13/2016 11:26 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 22:05:11 Danny Miller wrote:
>
>> Which VFD is this?
>>
>> Danny
>>
> A blue label in a matching sized depression on the right side claims it
> is a:
>
> HY01D523B
> With the I/O (1 to 3 phase) voltage (180-250) ratings and Frequency 40-60
> hertz, power at 1.5kw.
> The next line says output 3ph, 220 volt,10 amps, 0-400 Hz
>
> But the booklet in the box claims its an:
>
> ASKPOWER A131, and the pix looks almost but not exactly the same, as the
> pix has a pot to the right of the stop/reset button that this unit does
> not have.
>
> Now, here's something interesting, I ebay searched for that model number,
> and came up with the exact same HY etc number.  But its rated at 2Kw,
> and _does_ have the resistor callouts on the customer interface
> according to the ebay pix! $129 + ship, about $30.  Essentially the same
> as I paid for this one.
>
> Ok, so now I know they are available.  And I'm a bit smarter about what I
> buy next time.  So, this one, which seems to work and would be right at
> home on a gantry router, is officially for sale, first picture of Ben
> (on a $100 dollar bill + ship in my hand owns it.  I paid about $160 for
> this one.
>
> Thanks everybody.
>
>> On 3/13/2016 8:52 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 13:39:10 Jon Elson wrote:
 On 03/13/2016 08:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
>> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all
>> drives would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and
>> there are 12 different braking resistors.
> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra,
> external controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a
> tree in the back yard?
 MOST VFDs have the switch transistor built into the power
 block.  (6 rectifiers and 7 IGBTs).
 So, those only need the resistor added.  The purpose-built
 braking resistors usually have a thermal overload sensor so
 the drive shuts down if the resistor overheats.

 Jon
>>> Well, I just took this one down as far as I could get it by taking
>>> out screws abd unsnapping bits & peices w/o demolishing something,
>>> and there aren't any terminals called P or B, anyplace.  The only
>>> thing missing seems to be a short, fat electrolytic labeled C4 in
>>> the art work.  Every other hole in the boards has something in it.
>>> So I guess I tie the motor down with some clamps, and see how fast I
>>> can make it reverse from its own panel.
>>>
>>> I note that the interface terminl board has separate fwd and reverse
>>> outputs tallies.  But in the instructions, about how to configure
>>> it, both accel and decel times can be set as low as .01 seconds.
>>>
>>> Panel 15 while configuring it says its the startup braking voltage,
>>> can be set from 1 to 100 volts.
>>>
>>> Panel 16 is startup braking time, ensuring that it starts from dead.
>>>
>>> Panel 17 is stop braking voltage, set 1 to 100 volts.
>>>
>>> Panel 18 is stop DC braking time, 0.00 to 650.00 seconds.
>>>
>>> Panel 19 selects the speed control input, choice of 5 different
>>> methods, I'd use 3 for External 0-5 volt and feed it the PWM from
>>> the 5i25, which I have been a ssured will work just fine.
>>>
>>> Skipping a bunch of stuff that it looks as if it might be used to
>>> counteract any non-linearities in the speed obtain vs commanded, 7
>>> settings available there.
>>>
>>> Skipping ahead to Panel 29,30,31 which are labeled
>>> 2nd accel time, 0.01 to 650 seconds
>>> 2nd decel time, same range
>>> 2nd decel stop frequency, .01 to 400 Hz, defining the output
>>> frequency where it switches, Panel 8 & 9 settings are used above
>>> this frequency, panel 29-30 used if below that frequency.
>>>
>>> On page 25 is a table of braking resistors, and that tables heading
>>> says:
>>>
>>> There are internal regenerat brake resistance in this series
>>> inverter from .75kw to 30 kw.  If extra brake torque is needed,
>>> please wire proper brake resistance, which in the table for this
>>> size inverter, 1.5kw, is a 100 ohm 250 watter.
>>>
>>> And thats all it has to say about braking resistors, but the device
>>> hasn't any terminals labeled P or B to which it shows the optional
>>> braking resistor is wired to. Seems I ought to feed it from the 5i25
>>> just for S & G ...  B

Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 March 2016 22:05:11 Danny Miller wrote:

> Which VFD is this?
>
> Danny
>
A blue label in a matching sized depression on the right side claims it 
is a:

HY01D523B
With the I/O (1 to 3 phase) voltage (180-250) ratings and Frequency 40-60 
hertz, power at 1.5kw.
The next line says output 3ph, 220 volt,10 amps, 0-400 Hz

But the booklet in the box claims its an:

ASKPOWER A131, and the pix looks almost but not exactly the same, as the 
pix has a pot to the right of the stop/reset button that this unit does 
not have.

Now, here's something interesting, I ebay searched for that model number, 
and came up with the exact same HY etc number.  But its rated at 2Kw, 
and _does_ have the resistor callouts on the customer interface 
according to the ebay pix! $129 + ship, about $30.  Essentially the same 
as I paid for this one.

Ok, so now I know they are available.  And I'm a bit smarter about what I 
buy next time.  So, this one, which seems to work and would be right at 
home on a gantry router, is officially for sale, first picture of Ben 
(on a $100 dollar bill + ship in my hand owns it.  I paid about $160 for 
this one.

Thanks everybody.

> On 3/13/2016 8:52 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 March 2016 13:39:10 Jon Elson wrote:
> >> On 03/13/2016 08:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
>  I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all
>  drives would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and
>  there are 12 different braking resistors.
> >>>
> >>> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra,
> >>> external controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a
> >>> tree in the back yard?
> >>
> >> MOST VFDs have the switch transistor built into the power
> >> block.  (6 rectifiers and 7 IGBTs).
> >> So, those only need the resistor added.  The purpose-built
> >> braking resistors usually have a thermal overload sensor so
> >> the drive shuts down if the resistor overheats.
> >>
> >> Jon
> >
> > Well, I just took this one down as far as I could get it by taking
> > out screws abd unsnapping bits & peices w/o demolishing something,
> > and there aren't any terminals called P or B, anyplace.  The only
> > thing missing seems to be a short, fat electrolytic labeled C4 in
> > the art work.  Every other hole in the boards has something in it. 
> > So I guess I tie the motor down with some clamps, and see how fast I
> > can make it reverse from its own panel.
> >
> > I note that the interface terminl board has separate fwd and reverse
> > outputs tallies.  But in the instructions, about how to configure
> > it, both accel and decel times can be set as low as .01 seconds.
> >
> > Panel 15 while configuring it says its the startup braking voltage,
> > can be set from 1 to 100 volts.
> >
> > Panel 16 is startup braking time, ensuring that it starts from dead.
> >
> > Panel 17 is stop braking voltage, set 1 to 100 volts.
> >
> > Panel 18 is stop DC braking time, 0.00 to 650.00 seconds.
> >
> > Panel 19 selects the speed control input, choice of 5 different
> > methods, I'd use 3 for External 0-5 volt and feed it the PWM from
> > the 5i25, which I have been a ssured will work just fine.
> >
> > Skipping a bunch of stuff that it looks as if it might be used to
> > counteract any non-linearities in the speed obtain vs commanded, 7
> > settings available there.
> >
> > Skipping ahead to Panel 29,30,31 which are labeled
> > 2nd accel time, 0.01 to 650 seconds
> > 2nd decel time, same range
> > 2nd decel stop frequency, .01 to 400 Hz, defining the output
> > frequency where it switches, Panel 8 & 9 settings are used above
> > this frequency, panel 29-30 used if below that frequency.
> >
> > On page 25 is a table of braking resistors, and that tables heading
> > says:
> >
> > There are internal regenerat brake resistance in this series
> > inverter from .75kw to 30 kw.  If extra brake torque is needed,
> > please wire proper brake resistance, which in the table for this
> > size inverter, 1.5kw, is a 100 ohm 250 watter.
> >
> > And thats all it has to say about braking resistors, but the device
> > hasn't any terminals labeled P or B to which it shows the optional
> > braking resistor is wired to. Seems I ought to feed it from the 5i25
> > just for S & G ...  But I have some more work to do on the mill
> > before I tear that circuitry out & reroute to this thing so I can
> > play.
> >
> > Damn I hate it when the hardware and the docs aren't even in the
> > same country.
> >
> > Thanks, Jon, John & Danny, & anybony else that chimed in while I was
> > wrecking some mahogany by miss-reading the tape measure.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
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> Click to learn more.
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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Danny Miller]

Which VFD is this?

Danny

On 3/13/2016 8:52 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 13:39:10 Jon Elson wrote:
>
>> On 03/13/2016 08:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
 I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
 would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are
 12 different braking resistors.
>>> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra,
>>> external controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a
>>> tree in the back yard?
>> MOST VFDs have the switch transistor built into the power
>> block.  (6 rectifiers and 7 IGBTs).
>> So, those only need the resistor added.  The purpose-built
>> braking resistors usually have a thermal overload sensor so
>> the drive shuts down if the resistor overheats.
>>
>> Jon
>>
> Well, I just took this one down as far as I could get it by taking out
> screws abd unsnapping bits & peices w/o demolishing something, and there
> aren't any terminals called P or B, anyplace.  The only thing missing
> seems to be a short, fat electrolytic labeled C4 in the art work.  Every
> other hole in the boards has something in it.  So I guess I tie the
> motor down with some clamps, and see how fast I can make it reverse from
> its own panel.
>
> I note that the interface terminl board has separate fwd and reverse
> outputs tallies.  But in the instructions, about how to configure it,
> both accel and decel times can be set as low as .01 seconds.
>
> Panel 15 while configuring it says its the startup braking voltage, can
> be set from 1 to 100 volts.
>
> Panel 16 is startup braking time, ensuring that it starts from dead.
>
> Panel 17 is stop braking voltage, set 1 to 100 volts.
>
> Panel 18 is stop DC braking time, 0.00 to 650.00 seconds.
>
> Panel 19 selects the speed control input, choice of 5 different methods,
> I'd use 3 for External 0-5 volt and feed it the PWM from the 5i25, which
> I have been a ssured will work just fine.
>
> Skipping a bunch of stuff that it looks as if it might be used to
> counteract any non-linearities in the speed obtain vs commanded, 7
> settings available there.
>
> Skipping ahead to Panel 29,30,31 which are labeled
> 2nd accel time, 0.01 to 650 seconds
> 2nd decel time, same range
> 2nd decel stop frequency, .01 to 400 Hz, defining the output frequency
> where it switches, Panel 8 & 9 settings are used above this frequency,
> panel 29-30 used if below that frequency.
>
> On page 25 is a table of braking resistors, and that tables heading says:
>
> There are internal regenerat brake resistance in this series inverter
> from .75kw to 30 kw.  If extra brake torque is needed, please wire
> proper brake resistance, which in the table for this size inverter,
> 1.5kw, is a 100 ohm 250 watter.
>
> And thats all it has to say about braking resistors, but the device
> hasn't any terminals labeled P or B to which it shows the optional
> braking resistor is wired to. Seems I ought to feed it from the 5i25
> just for S & G ...  But I have some more work to do on the mill before I
> tear that circuitry out & reroute to this thing so I can play.
>
> Damn I hate it when the hardware and the docs aren't even in the same
> country.
>
> Thanks, Jon, John & Danny, & anybony else that chimed in while I was
> wrecking some mahogany by miss-reading the tape measure.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Danny Miller]

Actually at least the X200 and WJ200 have integral interal braking 
resistors- but, for practical reasons of space and cooling, they're 
undersized and only "remedial".   They can't absorb the full current of 
high-speed braking that the drive can potentially deliver.

Danny

On 3/13/2016 1:14 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 03/13/2016 10:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>> On 03/13/2016 08:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
>>>
 I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
 would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are 12
 different braking resistors.

>>> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra, external
>>> controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a tree in the back
>>> yard?
>>>
>>>
>> MOST VFDs have the switch transistor built into the power
>> block.  (6 rectifiers and 7 IGBTs).
>> So, those only need the resistor added.  The purpose-built
>> braking resistors usually have a thermal overload sensor so
>> the drive shuts down if the resistor overheats.
>>
>> Jon
>
> I haven't read back through this thread, so this may have been mentioned.
>
> I added generic (wire wound with aluminum case) resistors to my VFD
> (Hitachi SJ200), but I still had fits trying to get a decent
> deceleration. It turned out that I needed to set the duty register,
> which is set to 0% by default. I think it is at 50% now and works a
> treat. I have a PDF copy of the VFD manual so I did a keyword search on
> "dynamic" to find all the settings that might affect braking, then went
> through each one until I found the duty setting. There was another type
> of braking, but it turned out to be a red herring. I seem to recall it
> was "DC braking", which injects DC to the motor for slow speed braking
> and doesn't use the braking resistor. One can hear the motor sing as the
> motor comes to a stop when this feature is active.
>
> It seems one must find all of the ducks, pick the right ones, and put
> them in a row before braking will work.
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 March 2016 13:39:10 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/13/2016 08:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
> >> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
> >> would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are
> >> 12 different braking resistors.
> >
> > All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra,
> > external controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a
> > tree in the back yard?
>
> MOST VFDs have the switch transistor built into the power
> block.  (6 rectifiers and 7 IGBTs).
> So, those only need the resistor added.  The purpose-built
> braking resistors usually have a thermal overload sensor so
> the drive shuts down if the resistor overheats.
>
> Jon
>
Well, I just took this one down as far as I could get it by taking out 
screws abd unsnapping bits & peices w/o demolishing something, and there 
aren't any terminals called P or B, anyplace.  The only thing missing 
seems to be a short, fat electrolytic labeled C4 in the art work.  Every 
other hole in the boards has something in it.  So I guess I tie the 
motor down with some clamps, and see how fast I can make it reverse from 
its own panel.

I note that the interface terminl board has separate fwd and reverse 
outputs tallies.  But in the instructions, about how to configure it, 
both accel and decel times can be set as low as .01 seconds.

Panel 15 while configuring it says its the startup braking voltage, can 
be set from 1 to 100 volts.

Panel 16 is startup braking time, ensuring that it starts from dead.

Panel 17 is stop braking voltage, set 1 to 100 volts.

Panel 18 is stop DC braking time, 0.00 to 650.00 seconds.

Panel 19 selects the speed control input, choice of 5 different methods, 
I'd use 3 for External 0-5 volt and feed it the PWM from the 5i25, which 
I have been a ssured will work just fine.

Skipping a bunch of stuff that it looks as if it might be used to 
counteract any non-linearities in the speed obtain vs commanded, 7 
settings available there.

Skipping ahead to Panel 29,30,31 which are labeled
2nd accel time, 0.01 to 650 seconds
2nd decel time, same range
2nd decel stop frequency, .01 to 400 Hz, defining the output frequency 
where it switches, Panel 8 & 9 settings are used above this frequency, 
panel 29-30 used if below that frequency.

On page 25 is a table of braking resistors, and that tables heading says:

There are internal regenerat brake resistance in this series inverter 
from .75kw to 30 kw.  If extra brake torque is needed, please wire 
proper brake resistance, which in the table for this size inverter, 
1.5kw, is a 100 ohm 250 watter.

And thats all it has to say about braking resistors, but the device 
hasn't any terminals labeled P or B to which it shows the optional 
braking resistor is wired to. Seems I ought to feed it from the 5i25 
just for S & G ...  But I have some more work to do on the mill before I 
tear that circuitry out & reroute to this thing so I can play.

Damn I hate it when the hardware and the docs aren't even in the same 
country.

Thanks, Jon, John & Danny, & anybony else that chimed in while I was 
wrecking some mahogany by miss-reading the tape measure.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] hal_input on Debian with LinuxCNC 2.7.4

[Jeff Epler]

I researched this briefly.

Over its history, and possibly from one linux distribution to another,
udev has changed its syntax.  For example, I found this thread
indicating that SYSFS{}, which we suggested to use in our rules, has
been scheduled for removal since at least 2010.
https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/438296-spew-of-SYSFS-will-be-removed-in-a-future-udev-version-please-use-ATTR

This would be enough to cause the rule you showed to no longer work.

Rather than write documentation that may not apply to all our currently
supported versions, I have changed the hal_input documentation to refer
to the documentation of udev.  This will be reflected in a future
release of the software.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 March 2016 13:36:58 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/13/2016 08:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
> >> On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev
> >> in 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2
> >> second.
> >>
> >> JT
> >
> > That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers default
> > of 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor you used?
>
> Take the line current rating of the motor, multiply by 1.7
> (to make it "single phase current" then multiply by 1.5-2
> for a peak current rating.  Now, compute 340 / (number
> calculated above) and that is your resistor value.  These
> are rough calculations, but when the drive's controller
> detects a high bus voltage it will turn on the braking
> transistor until the voltage is safe again.  So, the
> resistor will be pulsed on in short bursts as needed during
> braking.  Use a big vitreous enamel resistor, it will only
> be pulsed during braking, so doesn't need to carry the
> steady-state wattage of that resistance across 340 V DC.  I
> used a single 25W resistor on my Bridgeport, and a pair of
> 50 W resistors on my VFDs.  The Bridgeport resistor does get
> hot when rigid tapping many holes, the one on the lathe
> never does, but it is not CNC'd so no rigid tapping on that
> machine.
>
> If you can find a chart of braking resistors in the book,
> use that instead of my scheme.
>
> Jon

Well, I like your idea better if the resistor switching is smart enough 
to do that, but first I am going to have to take it all apart and see if 
I can find terminals P & B that are called out on the interface pages, 
but are no-where to be seen on the power input and motor output terminal 
strip under the front cover.  If I open it all the way up, and find a 
place for a big transistor thats empty, I'll know I bought a real pig in 
a tied shut poke.  In that case it would make a good driver for a gantry 
router setup, but worthless as the tits on a boar hog to me.  I'll put 
some shoes back on and go get it and some diss tools & see if I can get 
any smarter.  Right now I am beginng to feel a little dumb for buying 
it.

More later I expect

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] hal_input on Debian with LinuxCNC 2.7.4

[Lars Andersson]

Gentlemen,
I have tried to move an USB jog pendant that worked on a Ubuntu 10.04 
installation onto my new system.
hal_input did not find the USB device so I did some tinkering. My finds 
below, if any more input is needed, I will be happy to try.

A hacked device permission made the USB device visible to HAL, but how 
do I solve this more permanently? The USB device is not alvays showing 
up with "event7".

System is Debian Wheezy LinuxCNC Axis 2.7.4 Fresh install.

Some system strings and the udev rule
=
la@LCNC27:~$uname -a
Linux LCNC27 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc 
i686 GNU/Linux
la@LCNC27:~$cat /etc/issue.net
Debian GNU/Linux 7
la@LCNC27:~$cat /etc/udev/rules.d/80-pendant.rules
#SUBSYSTEM="input", mode="0666", group="plugdev"
SYSFS{idProduct}=="05ba", SYSFS{idVendor}=="16c0", MODE="0666", 
GROUP="plugdev"

Failed load
===
la@LCNC27:~$halrun
halcmd: loadusr -W hal_input -KRA Bodnar
No input device matching 'Bodnar' was found (1 devices checked)
:1: waitpid failed hal_input hal_input
:1: hal_input exited without becoming ready
halcmd: exit

Change Permission
=

la@LCNC27:~$sudo chmod 0666 /dev/input/event7

Better load
===

la@LCNC27:~$halrun
halcmd: loadusr -W hal_input -KRA Bodnar
halcmd: show comp
Loaded HAL Components:
ID  Type  NamePID State
  5  User  hal_input 4366 ready
  3  User  halcmd4365 4365 ready

halcmd: exit



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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Kirk Wallace]

On 03/13/2016 10:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 03/13/2016 08:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
>>
>>> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
>>> would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are 12
>>> different braking resistors.
>>>
>> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra, external
>> controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a tree in the back
>> yard?
>>
>>
> MOST VFDs have the switch transistor built into the power
> block.  (6 rectifiers and 7 IGBTs).
> So, those only need the resistor added.  The purpose-built
> braking resistors usually have a thermal overload sensor so
> the drive shuts down if the resistor overheats.
>
> Jon


I haven't read back through this thread, so this may have been mentioned.

I added generic (wire wound with aluminum case) resistors to my VFD 
(Hitachi SJ200), but I still had fits trying to get a decent 
deceleration. It turned out that I needed to set the duty register, 
which is set to 0% by default. I think it is at 50% now and works a 
treat. I have a PDF copy of the VFD manual so I did a keyword search on 
"dynamic" to find all the settings that might affect braking, then went 
through each one until I found the duty setting. There was another type 
of braking, but it turned out to be a red herring. I seem to recall it 
was "DC braking", which injects DC to the motor for slow speed braking 
and doesn't use the braking resistor. One can hear the motor sing as the 
motor comes to a stop when this feature is active.

It seems one must find all of the ducks, pick the right ones, and put 
them in a row before braking will work.


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Jon Elson]

On 03/13/2016 08:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
>> would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are 12
>> different braking resistors.
>>
> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra, external
> controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a tree in the back
> yard?
>
>
MOST VFDs have the switch transistor built into the power 
block.  (6 rectifiers and 7 IGBTs).
So, those only need the resistor added.  The purpose-built 
braking resistors usually have a thermal overload sensor so 
the drive shuts down if the resistor overheats.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Jon Elson]

On 03/13/2016 08:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev in
>> 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2 second.
>>
>> JT
> That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers default of
> 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor you used?
>
>
Take the line current rating of the motor, multiply by 1.7 
(to make it "single phase current" then multiply by 1.5-2 
for a peak current rating.  Now, compute 340 / (number 
calculated above) and that is your resistor value.  These 
are rough calculations, but when the drive's controller 
detects a high bus voltage it will turn on the braking 
transistor until the voltage is safe again.  So, the 
resistor will be pulsed on in short bursts as needed during 
braking.  Use a big vitreous enamel resistor, it will only 
be pulsed during braking, so doesn't need to carry the 
steady-state wattage of that resistance across 340 V DC.  I 
used a single 25W resistor on my Bridgeport, and a pair of 
50 W resistors on my VFDs.  The Bridgeport resistor does get 
hot when rigid tapping many holes, the one on the lathe 
never does, but it is not CNC'd so no rigid tapping on that 
machine.

If you can find a chart of braking resistors in the book, 
use that instead of my scheme.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Jon Elson]

On 03/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings everybody;
>
> Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable accelleration
> control, and that my couple of hours playing with it from its own front
> panel, I am led at ask the question of just how fast can one of these
> things be reversed from say 1000 rpm at the motor spindle?
>
> I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which is all
> gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo amplifiers and a 125
> volt dc supply, reversals at the turn around depth of this cycle of a
> peck tapping operation, with the spindle doing 300 rpms, is a very small
> fraction of a second, far less than 30 degrees of rotation.  Based on
> its reversal performance at 2500 rpms being a slim second, I am
> concerned that the vfd may not be able to reverse so quickly, and will
> impact my use of G33.1 because of the turnaround over shoots.  On my
> lathe, with its fragile drive train and a 5" chuck, this overshoot is
> between 2 and 3 turns at 250 running rpms.  Usable, but if I don't stop
> it soon enough, the tap may bottom out and break.
>
>
A strong VFD that doesn't have to current limit during the 
reversal, can reverse quite quickly.
Our shop at work has 480, and their Bridgeports reverse so 
quickly you can't even hear it.
(That's "plug reversing" off the mains, not a VFD.)
I had to slow DOWN the reversal on my Bridgeport to make 
sure my Z axis could follow the reversal.
I generally rigid tap with the spindle belt set on the high 
speed groove, so that the motor is running at about 20 Hz.  
It reverses much better in that case, as the motor's 
rotational inertia is dominant.  In the case of a lathe, the 
chuck may be dominant, so this trick may not give as much 
advantage.  I think I get the reversal done in about one 
rev, maybe less, I haven't really checked.  (One could 
figure it out easily with Halscope looking at the spindle 
encoder.)

The VFD needs to have a braking resistor to do this 
reversing properly.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Danny Miller]

I DID see there's "braking units" AND "braking resistors".  I am unclear 
on what's inside a braking unit.  I am sure it has a self-resetting 
breaker at least.  But that is not even all that good to have- opening 
of the breaker would cause the  VFD to go into an overvolt error state.  
You won't likely need it- a 50W resistor can handle 200W for probably 
like 30 sec.  So tripping for overcurrent in 3 sec would be unnecessary.

I think it's a thermal breaker actually, on the resistor, rather than a 
current-based breaker.  Which is ok, just prevents exceeding max temp.  
But you won't ever approach that if you size the wattage correctly.

I was wondering if it somehow used a lower resistance than you would 
normally apply and PWM'ed itself when lower braking currents are 
required.But I don't see how it could work that way, the bus voltage 
I think is fixed.

 From what I gather, a braking resistor should be fine.  The electronic 
braking units, I don't know what that adds.

Danny

On 3/13/2016 8:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
>> would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are 12
>> different braking resistors.
>>
> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra, external
> controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a tree in the back
> yard?
>
> I'll look at the controller I have first. I should be able to do it for
> under a $100 Ben Franklin picture.
>
>> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28115
>> _-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%28115_-
>> z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-23P0
>>
>> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_(
>> VFD)_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_(Braking_Units_-a-_
>> Resistors)/Braking_Options_(All_GS_Drives)/GS-23P0-BR
>>
>> JT
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
 On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev
 in 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2
 second.

 JT
>>> That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers default
>>> of 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor you used?
>>>
>>> Thanks John.
>>>
 On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings everybody;
>
> Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable
> accelleration control, and that my couple of hours playing with it
> from its own front panel, I am led at ask the question of just how
> fast can one of these things be reversed from say 1000 rpm at the
> motor spindle?
>
> I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which is
> all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo amplifiers
> and a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn around depth of
> this cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the spindle doing 300
> rpms, is a very small fraction of a second, far less than 30
> degrees of rotation.  Based on its reversal performance at 2500
> rpms being a slim second, I am concerned that the vfd may not be
> able to reverse so quickly, and will impact my use of G33.1
> because of the turnaround over shoots.  On my lathe, with its
> fragile drive train and a 5" chuck, this overshoot is between 2
> and 3 turns at 250 running rpms.  Usable, but if I don't stop it
> soon enough, the tap may bottom out and break.
>
> What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
> motors?
>
> Can you still do rigid tapping safely?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
 ---
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>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>>  Transform Data into Opportunity.
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Danny Miller]

 From what I gather, the primary factor is the motor voltage and drive hp.

A 2.2KW motor with a 2.2KW drive on 208v is 10.6 amps.  Well, the phase 
currents are a different calc, and we're also talking about the main bus 
cap in the VFD which is rectified off the 208v source.  So these numbers 
have a lot wrong with them.  But if the drive's transistors are rated 
for 10.6 amps, then a 20ohm resistor would be needed to create enough 
sink current to stop from full RPM with full braking torque.

If you had a 5kw 208v motor but only put a 2.2kw VFD on it, you'd need 
that 20 ohm resistor because the transistors can't produce more stopping 
current.

If you have a 4.4KW drive and a 4.4KW  208v motor, it would have 21.2 
amp transistors and thus need a 10 ohm resistor.

Now note this- say this is a 2.2KW motor and a 2.2kw VFD, but it's a 
480v motor and VFD, that runs on higher voltages and lower currents.  
The same 20 ohm resistor would sink 2.3x more current off the higher 
voltage bus cap- yet the transistors are sized for 1/2.3x the current.  
The resistor is far too small, it needs to be 107 ohms to do the same thing.

The VFD manual describes how this works.  As I said before, the higher 
wattage brakes seem unnecessary for stopping a spindle at such low 
duty.  But search "braking resistor" on ebay, high wattages aren't 
expensive.  Getting excess wattage is not a problem.

However, getting too high a resistance means the bus cap can still get 
an overvolt error resulting in reverting to freewheeling and you'll have 
to increase the stop time.

Conversely if the resistance is too low, the resistor will actually be 
sucking too much current off the bus and depress to bus cap.  The VFD 
will probably switch it on and off but it's a bad idea.  The transistor 
the VFD uses as the resistor switch is only rated for a certain amperage 
and you're exceeding it by using too small of a resistor.

Again, DO NOT use my resistor ohms examples here.  They are not 
calculated correctly for 3-ph systems.

Danny

On 3/13/2016 8:30 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives would
> use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are 12
> different braking resistors.
>
> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%28115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-23P0
>
> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_(VFD)_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_(Braking_Units_-a-_Resistors)/Braking_Options_(All_GS_Drives)/GS-23P0-BR
>
> JT
>
> On 3/13/2016 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
>>
>>> On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev in
>>> 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2 second.
>>>
>>> JT
>> That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers default of
>> 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor you used?
>>
>> Thanks John.
>>
>>> On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 Greetings everybody;

 Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable accelleration
 control, and that my couple of hours playing with it from its own
 front panel, I am led at ask the question of just how fast can one
 of these things be reversed from say 1000 rpm at the motor spindle?

 I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which is
 all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo amplifiers and
 a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn around depth of this
 cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the spindle doing 300 rpms,
 is a very small fraction of a second, far less than 30 degrees of
 rotation.  Based on its reversal performance at 2500 rpms being a
 slim second, I am concerned that the vfd may not be able to reverse
 so quickly, and will impact my use of G33.1 because of the
 turnaround over shoots.  On my lathe, with its fragile drive train
 and a 5" chuck, this overshoot is between 2 and 3 turns at 250
 running rpms.  Usable, but if I don't stop it soon enough, the tap
 may bottom out and break.

 What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
 motors?

 Can you still do rigid tapping safely?

 Thanks all.

 Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>> --
>>>  Transform Data into Opportunity.
>>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>>> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
>>> Click to learn more.
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>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> -

Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Danny Miller]

Oh look, same thing but larger:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Trapezium-500W-100ohm-Aluminum-Housed-Wire-Wound-Braking-Resistor-/281080278842?hash=item4171b0af3a:g:VqMAAMXQ855RwVCg

 From what I'd Googled, the wattage can be much lower with drives for 
spindles that just need them to stop on a low duty (<1/min).

Danny

On 3/13/2016 10:45 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> I don't know who AT is or what your looking at, the braking resistor for
> the 3hp GS2 is $76 all day long.
>
> Look by the output terminals...
>
> The AD 100 ohm 300 watt braking resistor is $65 part number GS-22P0-BR
>
> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_%28VFD%29_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_%28Braking_Units_-a-_Resistors%29/Braking_Options_%28All_GS_Drives%29/GS-22P0-BR
>
> JT
>
> On 3/13/2016 10:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 10:14:26 John Thornton wrote:
>>
>>> I'm confused the braking resistor for my drive is $76...
>>>
>>> JT
>> AT's quoted prices on their web page, a/o this morning, were uniformly
>> all $435 with a note they also needed some sort of a controller
>> interface too, price UNK on that.
>>
>> Looking in the small booklet for this FVD, an ASKPOWER A131, they don't
>> offer a lot of data, but do say a 1.5 kw should use a 100 ohm resistor
>> that can stand 250 watts for the short duty cycle situation.  But the
>> bigger concern is that the braking rsistor terminals P & B, are not to
>> be found on the customer interface, nor on the top, logic board in the
>> device. Possibly on the power output board, but I haven't dissed it far
>> enough to see that if that is where they are.
>>
>> Can anyone else advise me on this, or do I have a vfd that cannot do
>> this?
>>
>>> On 3/13/2016 8:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
> would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are
> 12 different braking resistors.
 All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra,
 external controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a
 tree in the back yard?

 I'll look at the controller I have first. I should be able to do it
 for under a $100 Ben Franklin picture.

> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28
> 115
> _-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%281
> 15_- z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-23P0
>
> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Driv
> e_(
> VFD)_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_(Braking_Units_
> -a-_ Resistors)/Braking_Options_(All_GS_Drives)/GS-23P0-BR
>
> JT
>
> On 3/13/2016 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
>>> On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800
>>> rev in 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to
>>> 1/2 second.
>>>
>>> JT
>> That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers
>> default of 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor
>> you used?
>>
>> Thanks John.
>>
>>> On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 Greetings everybody;

 Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable
 accelleration control, and that my couple of hours playing with
 it from its own front panel, I am led at ask the question of
 just how fast can one of these things be reversed from say 1000
 rpm at the motor spindle?

 I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which
 is all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo
 amplifiers and a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn
 around depth of this cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the
 spindle doing 300 rpms, is a very small fraction of a second,
 far less than 30 degrees of rotation.  Based on its reversal
 performance at 2500 rpms being a slim second, I am concerned
 that the vfd may not be able to reverse so quickly, and will
 impact my use of G33.1 because of the turnaround over shoots.
 On my lathe, with its fragile drive train and a 5" chuck, this
 overshoot is between 2 and 3 turns at 250 running rpms.  Usable,
 but if I don't stop it soon enough, the tap may bottom out and
 break.

 What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
 motors?

 Can you still do rigid tapping safely?

 Thanks all.

 Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>> -
>>> -- ---  Transform Data into Opportunity.
>>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>>> Intel Data Analytics Acceler

Re: [Emc-users] Remap_error

[Jeff Epler]

The H-number must always be an integer.  This applies whether it is
going to a standard gcode like G43, G43.2, or G76, or if it is going to
a remapped code.

This limitation cannot be changed without modifying the C++ code of the
gcode interpreter.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[John Thornton]

I don't know who AT is or what your looking at, the braking resistor for 
the 3hp GS2 is $76 all day long.

Look by the output terminals...

The AD 100 ohm 300 watt braking resistor is $65 part number GS-22P0-BR

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_%28VFD%29_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_%28Braking_Units_-a-_Resistors%29/Braking_Options_%28All_GS_Drives%29/GS-22P0-BR

JT

On 3/13/2016 10:36 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 10:14:26 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> I'm confused the braking resistor for my drive is $76...
>>
>> JT
> AT's quoted prices on their web page, a/o this morning, were uniformly
> all $435 with a note they also needed some sort of a controller
> interface too, price UNK on that.
>
> Looking in the small booklet for this FVD, an ASKPOWER A131, they don't
> offer a lot of data, but do say a 1.5 kw should use a 100 ohm resistor
> that can stand 250 watts for the short duty cycle situation.  But the
> bigger concern is that the braking rsistor terminals P & B, are not to
> be found on the customer interface, nor on the top, logic board in the
> device. Possibly on the power output board, but I haven't dissed it far
> enough to see that if that is where they are.
>
> Can anyone else advise me on this, or do I have a vfd that cannot do
> this?
>
>> On 3/13/2016 8:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
 I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
 would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are
 12 different braking resistors.
>>> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra,
>>> external controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a
>>> tree in the back yard?
>>>
>>> I'll look at the controller I have first. I should be able to do it
>>> for under a $100 Ben Franklin picture.
>>>
 http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28
 115
 _-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%281
 15_- z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-23P0

 http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Driv
 e_(
 VFD)_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_(Braking_Units_
 -a-_ Resistors)/Braking_Options_(All_GS_Drives)/GS-23P0-BR

 JT

 On 3/13/2016 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
>> On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800
>> rev in 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to
>> 1/2 second.
>>
>> JT
> That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers
> default of 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor
> you used?
>
> Thanks John.
>
>> On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings everybody;
>>>
>>> Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable
>>> accelleration control, and that my couple of hours playing with
>>> it from its own front panel, I am led at ask the question of
>>> just how fast can one of these things be reversed from say 1000
>>> rpm at the motor spindle?
>>>
>>> I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which
>>> is all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo
>>> amplifiers and a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn
>>> around depth of this cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the
>>> spindle doing 300 rpms, is a very small fraction of a second,
>>> far less than 30 degrees of rotation.  Based on its reversal
>>> performance at 2500 rpms being a slim second, I am concerned
>>> that the vfd may not be able to reverse so quickly, and will
>>> impact my use of G33.1 because of the turnaround over shoots.
>>> On my lathe, with its fragile drive train and a 5" chuck, this
>>> overshoot is between 2 and 3 turns at 250 running rpms.  Usable,
>>> but if I don't stop it soon enough, the tap may bottom out and
>>> break.
>>>
>>> What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
>>> motors?
>>>
>>> Can you still do rigid tapping safely?
>>>
>>> Thanks all.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> -
>> -- ---  Transform Data into Opportunity.
>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
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 ---
 ---  Transform Data into Opportunity.
 Accelerate data 

Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 March 2016 10:14:26 John Thornton wrote:

> I'm confused the braking resistor for my drive is $76...
>
> JT

AT's quoted prices on their web page, a/o this morning, were uniformly 
all $435 with a note they also needed some sort of a controller 
interface too, price UNK on that.

Looking in the small booklet for this FVD, an ASKPOWER A131, they don't 
offer a lot of data, but do say a 1.5 kw should use a 100 ohm resistor 
that can stand 250 watts for the short duty cycle situation.  But the 
bigger concern is that the braking rsistor terminals P & B, are not to 
be found on the customer interface, nor on the top, logic board in the 
device. Possibly on the power output board, but I haven't dissed it far 
enough to see that if that is where they are.

Can anyone else advise me on this, or do I have a vfd that cannot do 
this?

> On 3/13/2016 8:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
> >> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
> >> would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are
> >> 12 different braking resistors.
> >
> > All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra,
> > external controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a
> > tree in the back yard?
> >
> > I'll look at the controller I have first. I should be able to do it
> > for under a $100 Ben Franklin picture.
> >
> >> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28
> >>115
> >> _-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%281
> >>15_- z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-23P0
> >>
> >> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Driv
> >>e_(
> >> VFD)_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_(Braking_Units_
> >>-a-_ Resistors)/Braking_Options_(All_GS_Drives)/GS-23P0-BR
> >>
> >> JT
> >>
> >> On 3/13/2016 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
>  On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800
>  rev in 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to
>  1/2 second.
> 
>  JT
> >>>
> >>> That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers
> >>> default of 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor
> >>> you used?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks John.
> >>>
>  On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings everybody;
> >
> > Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable
> > accelleration control, and that my couple of hours playing with
> > it from its own front panel, I am led at ask the question of
> > just how fast can one of these things be reversed from say 1000
> > rpm at the motor spindle?
> >
> > I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which
> > is all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo
> > amplifiers and a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn
> > around depth of this cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the
> > spindle doing 300 rpms, is a very small fraction of a second,
> > far less than 30 degrees of rotation.  Based on its reversal
> > performance at 2500 rpms being a slim second, I am concerned
> > that the vfd may not be able to reverse so quickly, and will
> > impact my use of G33.1 because of the turnaround over shoots. 
> > On my lathe, with its fragile drive train and a 5" chuck, this
> > overshoot is between 2 and 3 turns at 250 running rpms.  Usable,
> > but if I don't stop it soon enough, the tap may bottom out and
> > break.
> >
> > What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
> > motors?
> >
> > Can you still do rigid tapping safely?
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
>  -
> -- ---  Transform Data into Opportunity.
>  Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>  Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
>  Click to learn more.
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>  ___
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>  Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >>
> >> ---
> >>---  Transform Data into Opportunity.
> >> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> >> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> >> Click to learn more.
> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
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> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
>---

Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[John Thornton]

I'm confused the braking resistor for my drive is $76...

JT

On 3/13/2016 8:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
>> would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are 12
>> different braking resistors.
>>
> All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra, external
> controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a tree in the back
> yard?
>
> I'll look at the controller I have first. I should be able to do it for
> under a $100 Ben Franklin picture.
>
>> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28115
>> _-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%28115_-
>> z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-23P0
>>
>> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_(
>> VFD)_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_(Braking_Units_-a-_
>> Resistors)/Braking_Options_(All_GS_Drives)/GS-23P0-BR
>>
>> JT
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
 On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev
 in 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2
 second.

 JT
>>> That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers default
>>> of 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor you used?
>>>
>>> Thanks John.
>>>
 On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings everybody;
>
> Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable
> accelleration control, and that my couple of hours playing with it
> from its own front panel, I am led at ask the question of just how
> fast can one of these things be reversed from say 1000 rpm at the
> motor spindle?
>
> I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which is
> all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo amplifiers
> and a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn around depth of
> this cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the spindle doing 300
> rpms, is a very small fraction of a second, far less than 30
> degrees of rotation.  Based on its reversal performance at 2500
> rpms being a slim second, I am concerned that the vfd may not be
> able to reverse so quickly, and will impact my use of G33.1
> because of the turnaround over shoots.  On my lathe, with its
> fragile drive train and a 5" chuck, this overshoot is between 2
> and 3 turns at 250 running rpms.  Usable, but if I don't stop it
> soon enough, the tap may bottom out and break.
>
> What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
> motors?
>
> Can you still do rigid tapping safely?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
 ---
 ---  Transform Data into Opportunity.
 Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
 Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
 Click to learn more.
 http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>>  Transform Data into Opportunity.
>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
>> Click to learn more.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 March 2016 09:30:30 John Thornton wrote:

> I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives
> would use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are 12
> different braking resistors.
>
All of which are $435 a copy & still need some sort of an extra, external 
controller. AD thinks we are growing our own money on a tree in the back 
yard?

I'll look at the controller I have first. I should be able to do it for 
under a $100 Ben Franklin picture.

> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28115
>_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%28115_-
>z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-23P0
>
> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_(
>VFD)_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_(Braking_Units_-a-_
>Resistors)/Braking_Options_(All_GS_Drives)/GS-23P0-BR
>
> JT
>
> On 3/13/2016 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
> >> On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev
> >> in 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2
> >> second.
> >>
> >> JT
> >
> > That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers default
> > of 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor you used?
> >
> > Thanks John.
> >
> >> On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings everybody;
> >>>
> >>> Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable
> >>> accelleration control, and that my couple of hours playing with it
> >>> from its own front panel, I am led at ask the question of just how
> >>> fast can one of these things be reversed from say 1000 rpm at the
> >>> motor spindle?
> >>>
> >>> I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which is
> >>> all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo amplifiers
> >>> and a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn around depth of
> >>> this cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the spindle doing 300
> >>> rpms, is a very small fraction of a second, far less than 30
> >>> degrees of rotation.  Based on its reversal performance at 2500
> >>> rpms being a slim second, I am concerned that the vfd may not be
> >>> able to reverse so quickly, and will impact my use of G33.1
> >>> because of the turnaround over shoots.  On my lathe, with its
> >>> fragile drive train and a 5" chuck, this overshoot is between 2
> >>> and 3 turns at 250 running rpms.  Usable, but if I don't stop it
> >>> soon enough, the tap may bottom out and break.
> >>>
> >>> What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
> >>> motors?
> >>>
> >>> Can you still do rigid tapping safely?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks all.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >>
> >> ---
> >>---  Transform Data into Opportunity.
> >> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> >> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> >> Click to learn more.
> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
> Transform Data into Opportunity.
> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> Click to learn more.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[John Thornton]

I just used the the one for by the drive. I "think" not all drives would 
use the same resistor. Just looking at the GS2 and there are 12 
different braking resistors.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%28115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-23P0

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_(VFD)_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/GS_Braking_Options_(Braking_Units_-a-_Resistors)/Braking_Options_(All_GS_Drives)/GS-23P0-BR

JT

On 3/13/2016 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev in
>> 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2 second.
>>
>> JT
> That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers default of
> 30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor you used?
>
> Thanks John.
>
>> On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings everybody;
>>>
>>> Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable accelleration
>>> control, and that my couple of hours playing with it from its own
>>> front panel, I am led at ask the question of just how fast can one
>>> of these things be reversed from say 1000 rpm at the motor spindle?
>>>
>>> I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which is
>>> all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo amplifiers and
>>> a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn around depth of this
>>> cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the spindle doing 300 rpms,
>>> is a very small fraction of a second, far less than 30 degrees of
>>> rotation.  Based on its reversal performance at 2500 rpms being a
>>> slim second, I am concerned that the vfd may not be able to reverse
>>> so quickly, and will impact my use of G33.1 because of the
>>> turnaround over shoots.  On my lathe, with its fragile drive train
>>> and a 5" chuck, this overshoot is between 2 and 3 turns at 250
>>> running rpms.  Usable, but if I don't stop it soon enough, the tap
>>> may bottom out and break.
>>>
>>> What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
>>> motors?
>>>
>>> Can you still do rigid tapping safely?
>>>
>>> Thanks all.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>>  Transform Data into Opportunity.
>> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
>> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
>> Click to learn more.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 March 2016 07:40:25 John Thornton wrote:

> On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev in
> 1 second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2 second.
>
> JT

That would be considerably more usefull than the controllers default of 
30 seconds.  Do you recall the specs of the resistor you used?

Thanks John.

> On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings everybody;
> >
> > Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable accelleration
> > control, and that my couple of hours playing with it from its own
> > front panel, I am led at ask the question of just how fast can one
> > of these things be reversed from say 1000 rpm at the motor spindle?
> >
> > I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which is
> > all gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo amplifiers and
> > a 125 volt dc supply, reversals at the turn around depth of this
> > cycle of a peck tapping operation, with the spindle doing 300 rpms,
> > is a very small fraction of a second, far less than 30 degrees of
> > rotation.  Based on its reversal performance at 2500 rpms being a
> > slim second, I am concerned that the vfd may not be able to reverse
> > so quickly, and will impact my use of G33.1 because of the
> > turnaround over shoots.  On my lathe, with its fragile drive train
> > and a 5" chuck, this overshoot is between 2 and 3 turns at 250
> > running rpms.  Usable, but if I don't stop it soon enough, the tap
> > may bottom out and break.
> >
> > What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and
> > motors?
> >
> > Can you still do rigid tapping safely?
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
> Transform Data into Opportunity.
> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
> Click to learn more.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=278785111&iu=/4140
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Transform Data into Opportunity.
Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
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Re: [Emc-users] Learning LinuxCNC Youtube Channel

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 March 2016 01:27:46 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> To buy a few year old computer is another cheap option.
>
> > I have posted another video about building  pc for LinuxCNC
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuBySmg2e3Y
> >
> > Jim
> >
Yes, I am running my G0704 with a Dell Dimension 745, off lease that is 
stacking up on the dealer shelves, got it sans drive and winders license 
for $140, expect cheaper still where the tradein shelves are over 
flowing. 4Gb of dram, a dual core intel cpu running at about 3GHz, 
excellent low profile machine.  His keeping of the drive and the winderz 
installed on it made a 60 dollar difference in the asking price.

Its far more machine, with a decent latency, than the D525MW machines I 
have two of running the lathe and the original toy mill.  The only 
problem I have had so far is the probe output for G38.x useage can 
disappear from the 5i25 output. I thought the first time I had blown the 
card, so I changed it, then this past week it did it again, and the 
machine frame is now well grounded to the electronics box.

And a forced power down reboot caused by a 6 hour power failure fixed it. 
So its possible the 5i25 I pulled out is good yet. I've been intending 
to put it in the toy mills machine which is doing software stepping, 
along with a new motor psu to replace the 28 volter with a 42 volter, 
which should about double that machines rapids.  Its slow, 15 ipm rapids 
xy at best, 30 on Z because its still the acme screws drive I built 
early on and its head weight is counter sprung. With dual bronze nuts 
for backlash adjustments, its as tight as the ball screws I put in the 
xy table. Its also done a lot of work for me over the years.
Only so much productive time available a day at my years, and I have 
plans for all three machines when I find the time.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Remap_error

[nkp]

here is my function g711:
https://github.com/nkp2169/G71/blob/master/remap.py#L23
if H int - it works
if H float - no
what am I doing wrong?

13.03.2016 12:48, Michael Haberler пишет:
>> Am 13.03.2016 um 09:21 schrieb nkp :
>>
>> What does this  error mean?
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/107033522069386867580/132016#6261445564700413634
> exactly what it says: the remap procedure does not return an integer
>
> look 5 lines up where it is done right: 'return INTERP_OK'
>
>
> as documented in 'Calling conventions for python= subroutines' here: 
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/remap.html#_calling_conventions_ngc_to_python
>
>
>> P.S.
>> If not used float H :
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/107033522069386867580/132016#6261445543825452002
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Using a vfd vs G33.1

[John Thornton]

On my GS-2 with the braking resistor I go from 1800 fwd to 1800 rev in 1 
second. I have both acceleration and deceleration set to 1/2 second.

JT

On 3/12/2016 10:12 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings everybody;
>
> Given that I note the vfd's seem to have an adjustable accelleration
> control, and that my couple of hours playing with it from its own front
> panel, I am led at ask the question of just how fast can one of these
> things be reversed from say 1000 rpm at the motor spindle?
>
> I ask because my present setup, using the OEM PM DC motor which is all
> gear drive to the spindle, one of Jons pwm servo amplifiers and a 125
> volt dc supply, reversals at the turn around depth of this cycle of a
> peck tapping operation, with the spindle doing 300 rpms, is a very small
> fraction of a second, far less than 30 degrees of rotation.  Based on
> its reversal performance at 2500 rpms being a slim second, I am
> concerned that the vfd may not be able to reverse so quickly, and will
> impact my use of G33.1 because of the turnaround over shoots.  On my
> lathe, with its fragile drive train and a 5" chuck, this overshoot is
> between 2 and 3 turns at 250 running rpms.  Usable, but if I don't stop
> it soon enough, the tap may bottom out and break.
>
> What has been the experience of others using smaller vfd's and motors?
>
> Can you still do rigid tapping safely?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Remap_error

[Michael Haberler]

> Am 13.03.2016 um 09:21 schrieb nkp :
> 
> What does this  error mean?
> https://picasaweb.google.com/107033522069386867580/132016#6261445564700413634

exactly what it says: the remap procedure does not return an integer

look 5 lines up where it is done right: 'return INTERP_OK'


as documented in 'Calling conventions for python= subroutines' here: 
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/remap.html#_calling_conventions_ngc_to_python


> P.S.
> If not used float H :
> https://picasaweb.google.com/107033522069386867580/132016#6261445543825452002 
> 
> 
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> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
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[Emc-users] Remap_error

[nkp]

What does this  error mean?
https://picasaweb.google.com/107033522069386867580/132016#6261445564700413634
P.S.
If not used float H :
https://picasaweb.google.com/107033522069386867580/132016#6261445543825452002 


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