Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

[Gregg Eshelman]

Paper can be amazingly abrasive so you'll need to use tooling like you'd use 
for cutting FR4 PCB material or carbon fiber. To clamp the stack your ring will 
need to go right up to the edge of where you're making the hole to avoid 
ripping up the top sheets.
If you're doing a large number of these, all the same size hole, I'd first hog 
out the hole undersize then have each side of the hole guillotine cut with a 
blade the exact length of that side. Of course then you need to come up with 
the blades, a guillotine cutting machine, or a shop with one that will allow 
mounting custom blades. Then there's setting stops or making jigs to position 
the paper stack for each cut.
If you're just doing one, make a clamp plate with a hole the right size, figure 
out how to make it adjust for different thicknesses while also being easy to 
move away and return with precision. Then get busy cutting with a razor knife 
and a large supply of blades. Perhaps a Nack Knife.

 
  From: rayj 
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  
 Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 3:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack
   
Thanks for the replies.

I am looking to cut a window in a stack of already bound paper.  I am 
contemplating clamping the stack and cutting a pocket in it with a mill. 
  Just wondering if anybody had done it before.

   
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Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

[Gregg Eshelman]

Water jet. I'm serious. Google water jet cutting paper
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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 22:20:41 MC Cason wrote:

> On 07/26/2016 08:35 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 26 July 2016 04:56:38 andy pugh wrote:
> >> Some of the HY inverter auctions warn of fake clones, and advise
> >> how to spot them. This one does, for example:
> >> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252036183460
> >
> > If thats the real one, I have the fake, only 34 registers to
> > configure. The buttons at first glance look identical, until you get
> > a closeup enough pix to read the button labels.  So mine is a faker.
> >
> >> That's the actual supplier and inverter I bought, and it does have
> >> the special HY version of Modbus.
> >>
> >> Interestingly, that auction and every other has a broken link to
> >> the "this is a fake VFD" pictures today.
> >
> > One of the fake sellers likely complained.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
>Here's a Ebay seller that still has the pictures:
>
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/250748327119

And the one on the right is a dead ringer for the one I have.

Thanks MC Cason.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[MC Cason]

On 07/26/2016 08:35 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 July 2016 04:56:38 andy pugh wrote:
>
>> Some of the HY inverter auctions warn of fake clones, and advise how
>> to spot them. This one does, for example:
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252036183460
>>
> If thats the real one, I have the fake, only 34 registers to configure.
> The buttons at first glance look identical, until you get a closeup
> enough pix to read the button labels.  So mine is a faker.
>
>> That's the actual supplier and inverter I bought, and it does have the
>> special HY version of Modbus.
>>
>> Interestingly, that auction and every other has a broken link to the
>> "this is a fake VFD" pictures today.
> One of the fake sellers likely complained.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

   Here's a Ebay seller that still has the pictures:

   http://www.ebay.com/itm/250748327119


-- 
MC Cason
Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D



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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 20:52:55 andy pugh wrote:

> On 26 July 2016 at 21:36, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Humm, further reading says its not rs-485, but rs-232, with a very
> > odd connection scheme. Looks like it has a +12 volt connection on
> > what they are calling pin 1 of an 8 pin card edge connector that
> > does not exist. With serial ground on pin 2, and 4 data transfer
> > pins on 3,4,5,6 and two -12 volt connections on pins 7 & 8.
>
> I don't have any idea where you are looking, but
> http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/invertermanual.pdf

That one shows the same model # as does a sticker on the side of this 
one, but thats as far as the resemblance goes.  Very little else 
matches, so I am convinced the sticker, which is not the same quality as 
any of the other labels on it, is just as fake as the rest of it.  The 
little booklet that came with it, claims to be "isopower" or some such, 
I'll have to go get it. The sticker is in a shallow indentation in the 
lower front corner of its right side, Says "HY01D523B" But the booklet 
lists models:

A131- with braking and communication
A131NC- with braking, without communication
A131NB- without braking, with communication
A131NBC- without either

and further defines the :
1XXX 1: input 3phase 220V, output 3phase 220V
2XXX 2: input 1phase 220V, output 3phase 220V
3XXX 3: input 3phase 380V, output 3phase 380V
5XXX 5: input 1phase 220V, output 3phase 380V
6XXX 6: input 1phase 380V, output 3phase 380V
8XXX 8: input 1 or 3phase 220V, output 3phase 220V

then the XXX is:
007 0.750 kW
015 1.5kW
300 30kW (has to be a miss-print I think, 3.0kW seems much more likely)

So, based on decoding the above, I  think I have an A131NB-8015, made by 
ASKPOWER, aka Isacon Power Control Tech Co., Ltd.

And lists a phone #0086-576-87161633(10 line), and a fax line at that 
same number + an extra 8005.  Unfortunately, my free LD is lower 48 
only.

I peeled a corner of the HY01D523B label and there is nothing under it.
> just shows RS+ and RS- for the "Modbus" connection.

Whereas I have a D- and D+ labels on terminals 11,12. Which I assume work 
against the ground on terminal 7 in order to have a longitutdinal over 
voltage control.  Or perhaps thats all opto-isolated & only the data 
polarity counts?

So I am asking now how the RS-485 keeps track of who owns the buss to 
transmit on it since its a differential pair?

And what module would I load to be able to talk to the RS-485(modbus) 
over USB?

I am wondering also, if at 9600 baud, is it going to be able to talk fast 
enough to do rigid tapping?  I don't think anything else needs that sort 
of millisecond control.

And one final Q, why is the usb<->rs485 adapter 1 euro on the continent, 
and 20 dollars on this side of the pond?

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

[Todd Zuercher]

In than case your best bet might be to clamp the book between two sacrificial 
boards.  Don't know how well it may work.  Cut quality may leave something to 
be desired.  Be sure to use good sharp carbide tooling, an O-flute might work 
well.

- Original Message -
From: "rayj" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 5:05:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

Thanks for the replies.

I am looking to cut a window in a stack of already bound paper.  I am 
contemplating clamping the stack and cutting a pocket in it with a mill. 
  Just wondering if anybody had done it before.

Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 07/26/2016 03:34 PM, Todd  Zuercher wrote:
> I'll second the guillotine.  For making straight cuts in large stacks
> of paper, it is by far the best way.  We have a large one here and it
> makes short work of trimming and sizing prints.
>
> If you need to cut a rectangular window in the paper your options are
> much more limited, and I can't think of a good way to do more than a
> few sheets at a time.
>
> If you need to make irregular or window cuts for large quantities an
> don't need a variety of different designs.  Probably the highest
> production speed would be with a die cutter, but this will also have
> the least flexibility for cut variety (new dies for every different
> cut).
>
> - Original Message - From: "rayj" 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016
> 3:33:18 PM Subject: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering a project where I'll be cutting a rectangle out of a
>  stack of sheets of paper.  Anyone have any experience doing that or
> any references to recommend?  The depth of cut will typically be
> between 1/2 and 3 inches.
>
> TIA for any info or recommendations.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] OT Q about feed forces calculation

[andy pugh]

On 26 July 2016 at 19:14, Tomaz T.  wrote:
> I would need a little help about how to approximately calculate force needed 
> for feed when milling steel (for example 1.1730)

Try fswizard: http://zero-divide.net/?page=fswizard



-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[andy pugh]

On 26 July 2016 at 21:36, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Humm, further reading says its not rs-485, but rs-232, with a very odd
> connection scheme. Looks like it has a +12 volt connection on what they
> are calling pin 1 of an 8 pin card edge connector that does not exist.
> With serial ground on pin 2, and 4 data transfer pins on 3,4,5,6 and
> two -12 volt connections on pins 7 & 8.

I don't have any idea where you are looking, but
http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/invertermanual.pdf
just shows RS+ and RS- for the "Modbus" connection.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
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Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

[rayj]

Thanks for the replies.

I am looking to cut a window in a stack of already bound paper.  I am 
contemplating clamping the stack and cutting a pocket in it with a mill. 
  Just wondering if anybody had done it before.

Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 07/26/2016 03:34 PM, Todd  Zuercher wrote:
> I'll second the guillotine.  For making straight cuts in large stacks
> of paper, it is by far the best way.  We have a large one here and it
> makes short work of trimming and sizing prints.
>
> If you need to cut a rectangular window in the paper your options are
> much more limited, and I can't think of a good way to do more than a
> few sheets at a time.
>
> If you need to make irregular or window cuts for large quantities an
> don't need a variety of different designs.  Probably the highest
> production speed would be with a die cutter, but this will also have
> the least flexibility for cut variety (new dies for every different
> cut).
>
> - Original Message - From: "rayj" 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016
> 3:33:18 PM Subject: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering a project where I'll be cutting a rectangle out of a
>  stack of sheets of paper.  Anyone have any experience doing that or
> any references to recommend?  The depth of cut will typically be
> between 1/2 and 3 inches.
>
> TIA for any info or recommendations.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 09:30:34 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Tuesday 26 July 2016 04:48:51 andy pugh wrote:
> > On 26 July 2016 at 09:00, Bruce Layne 
>
> wrote:
> > > If your VFD will communicate via RS485, you should be able to plug
> > > an RS232 to RS485 converter (about $8 delivered from Amazon) into
> > > the serial port
> >
> > Or spend $2 and use USB.
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/30675-on-motherboard-mo
> >db us-rs485-connection#72351
> >
> > (This is about a hack that I made to one, but it worked
> > as-delivered). Current eBay price is slightly less than £1.
>
> Looks good but isn't carrying a ground. I see dongles with 3 and 4
> terminals or a cable on the far end that I'd assume would allow, if
> the VFD wants it, both a common ground, and a supply reference. I'll
> check the VFD later today sometime. If it looks like it can, I'll do
> it.
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
Humm, further reading says its not rs-485, but rs-232, with a very odd 
connection scheme. Looks like it has a +12 volt connection on what they 
are calling pin 1 of an 8 pin card edge connector that does not exist. 
With serial ground on pin 2, and 4 data transfer pins on 3,4,5,6 and 
two -12 volt connections on pins 7 & 8.

pc connections at a presumed db9 serial port are inverters pin 2<->5 on 
the db9.
inverters 3,4 <-> 2 on the db9
inverters 5,6 <-> 3 on the db9

buss speed 9600 baud
data 8n1
inverter sends 13 bytes
inverter receives 9 bytes

Since 9 bytes isn't anywhere near enough to initialize all 34 of 
its "Pins" I guess it must have some nvram in it.  Another test of an 
hours powerdown by dropping the breaker, and it did remember what I had 
entered from the panel.  Both directions seem to well loaded with synch 
and checksum bytes as the last 2 bytes going each way are the xor and 
additions of the previous bytes in the packet, and each starts with 
0x00,0x55 and ends with an 0xFF.  With enough stuff on the next page to 
define what the individual bytes represent.

The control port pin defs don't seem to connect very well with its pin 
bucket #3 set to 6, which equals external digital control, and the 
interfaces pin 11 is marked D0+ and pin 12 is marked D1-.  Confuzin.

There is what looks like a spot on the logic board for a miniature usb or 
serial header, active circuitry looks like its populated around it, but 
the 9 pad, (one row of 4, one row of 5) thruhole style spot on the board 
is empty.  It looks to be about half the size of a regular motherboard 
usb header. And the pad holes are smaller too.

So I am not convinced it has the serial port, but if it will remember 
what I put in it during an extended power down, I can use it as I 
originally intended, with a run/stop, dir, and pwm into the 5 volt port.

But its about as usefull as the teats on a boar hog if I have to spend an 
hour programming it everytime its powered up. I don't think it draws 
much power when fully stopped, but I sure don't think much of leaving it 
on 24/7/365.25 either.

Just for S, I set it up for some ridiculous slow speed, and left it 
running at about 590 rpms (its a 1725 rpm at FL rated motor), at 20hz 
for about half an hour. One spot on the outer frame made it up to 111F 
on a 70F garage.  I had a small amount of torque comp enabled below 45 
hz, and the coil currents went up to about 3.6 amps (3.4 FLA on the 
label) but soon fell back to the 3.4 range as the coils warmed up. I 
tried to load it up by jamming a gob of paper towels against the pulley 
without having a hugely noticeable effect on the speed or the amps 
showing on the imitation amprobes, so it appears I can run it over a 
wider speed range than I had imagined. 16.6 rpms at the chuck anybody?

OTOH, I have no clue what the frequency response of these clampon, 
digital imitation "amprobes" is, they, when not at 60 hz, could well be 
lying to me.  One is a "Greenlee" & the other is an "Ideal" brand. I 
have tried to find some data on the net about that, without a lot of 
luck.  FWIW, if both are on the same coil wire, they agree quite well.  
Both at low and high frequencies

Can anyone else comment about this source of error in reading amps with 
these things?
 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

[Todd Zuercher]

I'll second the guillotine.  For making straight cuts in large stacks of paper, 
it is by far the best way.  We have a large one here and it makes short work of 
trimming and sizing prints.

If you need to cut a rectangular window in the paper your options are much more 
limited, and I can't think of a good way to do more than a few sheets at a time.

If you need to make irregular or window cuts for large quantities an don't need 
a variety of different designs.  Probably the highest production speed would be 
with a die cutter, but this will also have the least flexibility for cut 
variety (new dies for every different cut).

- Original Message -
From: "rayj" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 3:33:18 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

Greetings,

I'm considering a project where I'll be cutting a rectangle out of a 
stack of sheets of paper.  Anyone have any experience doing that or any 
references to recommend?  The depth of cut will typically be between 1/2 
and 3 inches.

TIA for any info or recommendations.
-- 
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Marshland Engineering]

I have run one of these for over 2 years on my 5hp mill which works most days.
Even the Chinese support was quite good. It works very well and I bought a
second one just for standby.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Inverter-4000-watt-4-KW-Power-220V-Variable-Frequency-Drives-VFD-for-4KW-Motor-Speed-Control/349780993.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.124.09zi28

Cheers Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

[Ken Strauss]

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eLEz2PVWoQ for a better demo.

> -Original Message-
> From: rayj [mailto:raymo...@frontiernet.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 3:33 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering a project where I'll be cutting a rectangle out of a stack
of
> sheets of paper.  Anyone have any experience doing that or any references
to
> recommend?  The depth of cut will typically be between 1/2 and 3 inches.
>
> TIA for any info or recommendations.
> --
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
> understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
> And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
> egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire
the
> quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
> -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)
>
>

--
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> are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for
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Re: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

[Ken Strauss]

Such operations are very common in the printing trade and are usually done
on a guillotine. Some have computer controlled back stops that provide
semi-automatic setups. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btzboHQLcT0 for
one model.

Or have I completely misunderstood what you need?

> -Original Message-
> From: rayj [mailto:raymo...@frontiernet.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 3:33 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm considering a project where I'll be cutting a rectangle out of a stack
of
> sheets of paper.  Anyone have any experience doing that or any references
to
> recommend?  The depth of cut will typically be between 1/2 and 3 inches.
>
> TIA for any info or recommendations.
> --
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
> understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
> And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
> egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire
the
> quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
> -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)
>
>

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> traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and
protocols
> are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for
> NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using
> capacity planning reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
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[Emc-users] O.T.: Machining paper stack

[rayj]

Greetings,

I'm considering a project where I'll be cutting a rectangle out of a 
stack of sheets of paper.  Anyone have any experience doing that or any 
references to recommend?  The depth of cut will typically be between 1/2 
and 3 inches.

TIA for any info or recommendations.
-- 
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

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[Emc-users] OT Q about feed forces calculation

[Tomaz T .]

I would need a little help about how to approximately calculate force needed 
for feed when milling steel (for example 1.1730)  with certain tool (flat end 
cutter), cutting parameters (suggested from cutting tool supplier) etc...   
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[dannym]

A lot of people use them.  They just about throw 'em in for free with a spindle 
on eBay.

I would MUCH rather spend $300 on a high-performance, high-quality, 
well-specified Hitachi VFD.  I need to be able to trust my components.

Look up Hitachi WJ200.  WJ200 is a product LINE though, there are different KW 
and power input types within that so don't just order "a WJ200".  The suffixes 
are critical.

Danny


 Dave Cole  wrote: 
> Just a question to clarify:
> 
> Are the Huanyang inverters known to be quality inverters ??
> Do some of you have those inverters with thousands of hours on them?
> 
> Thanks,  Dave
> 
> On 7/26/2016 2:36 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> > Russtuff just uploaded a quick video showing how to program a Huanyang
> > VFD that might be helpful.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OszQS_BQMk
> >
> > He's programming it for RS485 control, which would be nice now that
> > Huanyang VFD support is in LinuxCNC 2.7 and above.  I think many of the
> > Huanyang inverters do not support the com port and it's difficult to
> > tell which do from a visual inspection.  The eBay specs are usually
> > cut-and-paste and are often incorrect.  I've read that even if the
> > Huanyang VFD has the proper chipset to support the com port, it may not
> > have the hardware as a cost saving "feature".  I have a few of these
> > VFDs.  I should connect them to a motor one at a time and see if any of
> > them support RS485, and use that for future CNC projects instead of
> > relays and 0-10V analog control if possible.
> >
> > However, even if you aren't interested in RS485, you might be interested
> > in the part of the video that deals with the parameters for ramp up
> > time, ramp down time, motor current, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07/25/2016 02:56 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>  Greetings to you who are running an inverter driven spindle; I have
>  one of those 1 HP 230 volt 3 phase motors on the table, in this case
>  the one with the noisy bearings but it still rolls dead free. With
>  the inverter set to 90 hertz and its running, pushing the green
>  run/stop to stop it gets a rapid drop to around 75 hz, then its
>  turned loose to coast for quite a spell, 10 secs maybe, at the end
>  of which the DC comes on and its dead in its tracks in less than 1
>  more rev.
> >
> > --
> > What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
> > patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are
> > consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
> > J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity 
> > planning
> > reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> --
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> patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are 
> consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, 
> J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
> reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[andy pugh]

On 26 July 2016 at 14:30, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> (This is about a hack that I made to one, but it worked as-delivered).
>> Current eBay price is slightly less than £1.
>
> Looks good but isn't carrying a ground.

It does now :-) I swapped the screw-terminal block for a 3-pin.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 04:56:38 andy pugh wrote:

> On 26 July 2016 at 07:36, Bruce Layne  
wrote:
> > I've read that even if the
> > Huanyang VFD has the proper chipset to support the com port, it may
> > not have the hardware as a cost saving "feature".
>
> Some of the HY inverter auctions warn of fake clones, and advise how
> to spot them. This one does, for example:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252036183460
>
If thats the real one, I have the fake, only 34 registers to configure.  
The buttons at first glance look identical, until you get a closeup 
enough pix to read the button labels.  So mine is a faker.

> That's the actual supplier and inverter I bought, and it does have the
> special HY version of Modbus.
>
> Interestingly, that auction and every other has a broken link to the
> "this is a fake VFD" pictures today.

One of the fake sellers likely complained.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 04:48:51 andy pugh wrote:

> On 26 July 2016 at 09:00, Bruce Layne  
wrote:
> > If your VFD will communicate via RS485, you should be able to plug
> > an RS232 to RS485 converter (about $8 delivered from Amazon) into
> > the serial port
>
> Or spend $2 and use USB.
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/30675-on-motherboard-modb
>us-rs485-connection#72351
>
> (This is about a hack that I made to one, but it worked as-delivered).
> Current eBay price is slightly less than £1.

Looks good but isn't carrying a ground. I see dongles with 3 and 4 
terminals or a cable on the far end that I'd assume would allow, if the 
VFD wants it, both a common ground, and a supply reference. I'll check 
the VFD later today sometime. If it looks like it can, I'll do it.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Dave Cole]

Just a question to clarify:

Are the Huanyang inverters known to be quality inverters ??
Do some of you have those inverters with thousands of hours on them?

Thanks,  Dave

On 7/26/2016 2:36 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> Russtuff just uploaded a quick video showing how to program a Huanyang
> VFD that might be helpful.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OszQS_BQMk
>
> He's programming it for RS485 control, which would be nice now that
> Huanyang VFD support is in LinuxCNC 2.7 and above.  I think many of the
> Huanyang inverters do not support the com port and it's difficult to
> tell which do from a visual inspection.  The eBay specs are usually
> cut-and-paste and are often incorrect.  I've read that even if the
> Huanyang VFD has the proper chipset to support the com port, it may not
> have the hardware as a cost saving "feature".  I have a few of these
> VFDs.  I should connect them to a motor one at a time and see if any of
> them support RS485, and use that for future CNC projects instead of
> relays and 0-10V analog control if possible.
>
> However, even if you aren't interested in RS485, you might be interested
> in the part of the video that deals with the parameters for ramp up
> time, ramp down time, motor current, etc.
>
>
>
> On 07/25/2016 02:56 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 Greetings to you who are running an inverter driven spindle; I have
 one of those 1 HP 230 volt 3 phase motors on the table, in this case
 the one with the noisy bearings but it still rolls dead free. With
 the inverter set to 90 hertz and its running, pushing the green
 run/stop to stop it gets a rapid drop to around 75 hz, then its
 turned loose to coast for quite a spell, 10 secs maybe, at the end
 of which the DC comes on and its dead in its tracks in less than 1
 more rev.
>
> --
> What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
> patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are
> consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
> J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
> reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

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consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, 
J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[andy pugh]

On 26 July 2016 at 07:36, Bruce Layne  wrote:
> I've read that even if the
> Huanyang VFD has the proper chipset to support the com port, it may not
> have the hardware as a cost saving "feature".

Some of the HY inverter auctions warn of fake clones, and advise how
to spot them. This one does, for example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252036183460

That's the actual supplier and inverter I bought, and it does have the
special HY version of Modbus.

Interestingly, that auction and every other has a broken link to the
"this is a fake VFD" pictures today.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
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patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are 
consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, 
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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[andy pugh]

On 26 July 2016 at 09:00, Bruce Layne  wrote:
> If your VFD will communicate via RS485, you should be able to plug an
> RS232 to RS485 converter (about $8 delivered from Amazon) into the
> serial port

Or spend $2 and use USB.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/30675-on-motherboard-modbus-rs485-connection#72351

(This is about a hack that I made to one, but it worked as-delivered).
Current eBay price is slightly less than £1.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 04:00:33 Bruce Layne wrote:

> We're in the same time zone, so it's the middle of the night here as
> well.  :-)
>
> If your VFD will communicate via RS485, you should be able to plug an
> RS232 to RS485 converter (about $8 delivered from Amazon) into the
> serial port and later LinuxCNC versions should be able to talk to the
> inverter without much trouble and without bothering Peter for MESA
> help.  I haven't done this.  It's second hand info from Russ' video,
> but he makes it look easy.
>
> Good luck!

For newer pc w/o the serial port, how hard is it to get lcnc to talk to a 
usb<->RS-485 cable?  They seem to run in the 20 dollar range, and IMO 
there isn't anything that might be effected by the usb latency in this.

I just checked the available pin files for the 5i25, without finding an 
RS-485 port in the lot of them unless the 7i76 or 7i77 setups might do 
it.  With the 5i25, the lack of a lvdiff port pins is probably the 
problem.  But I'm equally sure the usb-RS485 adapter could be used too.

> On 07/26/2016 03:43 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 26 July 2016 02:36:35 Bruce Layne wrote:
> >> Russtuff just uploaded a quick video showing how to program a
> >> Huanyang VFD that might be helpful.
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OszQS_BQMk
> >
> > Thanks Bruce. I'll look tomorrow as its the middle of the night for
> > me ATM and the video might wake my missus.
> >
> >> He's programming it for RS485 control, which would be nice now that
> >> Huanyang VFD support is in LinuxCNC 2.7 and above. I think many of
> >> the Huanyang inverters do not support the com port and it's
> >> difficult to tell which do from a visual inspection. The eBay specs
> >> are usually cut-and-paste and are often incorrect. I've read that
> >> even if the Huanyang VFD has the proper chipset to support the com
> >> port, it may not have the hardware as a cost saving "feature". I
> >> have a few of these VFDs. I should connect them to a motor one at a
> >> time and see if any of them support RS485, and use that for future
> >> CNC projects instead of relays and 0-10V analog control if
> >> possible.
> >
> > I am not sure if RS-485 is supported on the device I bought. But in
> > emails from the seller, I was assured it would run with run/stop,
> > dir, and a straight pwmgen output for the analog input, just feed it
> > into the 0-5 volt port. However, and this is a huge IF, I have found
> > that powering it down overnight restores it to default settings, so
> > I'll take it apart and see if its got a dead CR2032 or similar in
> > it, because the defaults, while safe, suck at about 10ee-37 tor.
> > Something similar to where the Voyagers are now. If it doesn't have
> > a backup battery thats dead, then an rs485 channel will be needed to
> > be setup and an initial configuration stream will have to be fed to
> > it. That rather sounds like a PIMA to me.
> >
> >> However, even if you aren't interested in RS485, you might be
> >> interested in the part of the video that deals with the parameters
> >> for ramp up time, ramp down time, motor current, etc.
> >
> > Absolutely. I suspect I might have to have Peters help in cobbling
> > up an upload to the 5i25 I'll run it with, to put some different
> > stuff on the P2 plug header as I don't think its present setup can
> > do RS-485 anyplace. The image I have in it now essentially dups the
> > 4 stepgens, a pwmgen and an encoder on each port for 8 stepgens, two
> > pwmgens and 2 encoders per card with whats left as GPIO's. But
> > first, read the fine but tiny manual. It also has mention of braking
> > R's, but no terminals to attach them were to can be found. I did
> > take it apart looking for those.
> >
> >> On 07/25/2016 02:56 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings to you who are running an inverter driven spindle; I
> > have one of those 1 HP 230 volt 3 phase motors on the table, in
> > this case the one with the noisy bearings but it still rolls
> > dead free. With the inverter set to 90 hertz and its running,
> > pushing the green run/stop to stop it gets a rapid drop to
> > around 75 hz, then its turned loose to coast for quite a spell,
> > 10 secs maybe, at the end of which the DC comes on and its dead
> > in its tracks in less than 1 more rev.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
> What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network
> bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which
> users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides
> multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make
> informed decisions using capacity planning
> reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to 

Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Bruce Layne]

We're in the same time zone, so it's the middle of the night here as 
well.  :-)

If your VFD will communicate via RS485, you should be able to plug an 
RS232 to RS485 converter (about $8 delivered from Amazon) into the 
serial port and later LinuxCNC versions should be able to talk to the 
inverter without much trouble and without bothering Peter for MESA 
help.  I haven't done this.  It's second hand info from Russ' video, but 
he makes it look easy.

Good luck!





On 07/26/2016 03:43 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 July 2016 02:36:35 Bruce Layne wrote:
>> Russtuff just uploaded a quick video showing how to program a 
>> Huanyang VFD that might be helpful. 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OszQS_BQMk 
> Thanks Bruce. I'll look tomorrow as its the middle of the night for me 
> ATM and the video might wake my missus.
>> He's programming it for RS485 control, which would be nice now that 
>> Huanyang VFD support is in LinuxCNC 2.7 and above. I think many of 
>> the Huanyang inverters do not support the com port and it's difficult 
>> to tell which do from a visual inspection. The eBay specs are usually 
>> cut-and-paste and are often incorrect. I've read that even if the 
>> Huanyang VFD has the proper chipset to support the com port, it may 
>> not have the hardware as a cost saving "feature". I have a few of 
>> these VFDs. I should connect them to a motor one at a time and see if 
>> any of them support RS485, and use that for future CNC projects 
>> instead of relays and 0-10V analog control if possible. 
> I am not sure if RS-485 is supported on the device I bought. But in 
> emails from the seller, I was assured it would run with run/stop, dir, 
> and a straight pwmgen output for the analog input, just feed it into 
> the 0-5 volt port. However, and this is a huge IF, I have found that 
> powering it down overnight restores it to default settings, so I'll 
> take it apart and see if its got a dead CR2032 or similar in it, 
> because the defaults, while safe, suck at about 10ee-37 tor. Something 
> similar to where the Voyagers are now. If it doesn't have a backup 
> battery thats dead, then an rs485 channel will be needed to be setup 
> and an initial configuration stream will have to be fed to it. That 
> rather sounds like a PIMA to me.
>> However, even if you aren't interested in RS485, you might be 
>> interested in the part of the video that deals with the parameters 
>> for ramp up time, ramp down time, motor current, etc. 
> Absolutely. I suspect I might have to have Peters help in cobbling up 
> an upload to the 5i25 I'll run it with, to put some different stuff on 
> the P2 plug header as I don't think its present setup can do RS-485 
> anyplace. The image I have in it now essentially dups the 4 stepgens, 
> a pwmgen and an encoder on each port for 8 stepgens, two pwmgens and 2 
> encoders per card with whats left as GPIO's. But first, read the fine 
> but tiny manual. It also has mention of braking R's, but no terminals 
> to attach them were to can be found. I did take it apart looking for 
> those.
>> On 07/25/2016 02:56 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings to you who are running an inverter driven spindle; I 
> have one of those 1 HP 230 volt 3 phase motors on the table, in 
> this case the one with the noisy bearings but it still rolls dead 
> free. With the inverter set to 90 hertz and its running, pushing 
> the green run/stop to stop it gets a rapid drop to around 75 hz, 
> then its turned loose to coast for quite a spell, 10 secs maybe, 
> at the end of which the DC comes on and its dead in its tracks in 
> less than 1 more rev. 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 02:36:35 Bruce Layne wrote:

> Russtuff just uploaded a quick video showing how to program a Huanyang
> VFD that might be helpful.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OszQS_BQMk
>
Thanks Bruce. I'll look tomorrow as its the middle of the night for me 
ATM and the video might wake my missus.

> He's programming it for RS485 control, which would be nice now that
> Huanyang VFD support is in LinuxCNC 2.7 and above.  I think many of
> the Huanyang inverters do not support the com port and it's difficult
> to tell which do from a visual inspection.  The eBay specs are usually
> cut-and-paste and are often incorrect.  I've read that even if the
> Huanyang VFD has the proper chipset to support the com port, it may
> not have the hardware as a cost saving "feature".  I have a few of
> these VFDs.  I should connect them to a motor one at a time and see if
> any of them support RS485, and use that for future CNC projects
> instead of relays and 0-10V analog control if possible.

I am not sure if RS-485 is supported on the device I bought. But in 
emails from the seller, I was assured it would run with run/stop, dir, 
and a straight pwmgen output for the analog input, just feed it into the 
0-5 volt port.

However, and this is a huge IF, I have found that powering it down 
overnight restores it to default settings, so I'll take it apart and see 
if its got a dead CR2032 or similar in it, because the defaults, while 
safe, suck at about 10ee-37 tor.  Something similar to where the 
Voyagers are now.  If it doesn't have a backup battery thats dead, then 
an rs485 channel will be needed to be setup and an initial configuration 
stream will have to be fed to it. That rather sounds like a PIMA to me.

> However, even if you aren't interested in RS485, you might be
> interested in the part of the video that deals with the parameters for
> ramp up time, ramp down time, motor current, etc.

Absolutely. I suspect I might have to have Peters help in cobbling up an 
upload to the 5i25 I'll run it with, to put some different stuff on the 
P2 plug header as I don't think its present setup can do RS-485 
anyplace.  The image I have in it now essentially dups the 4 stepgens, a 
pwmgen and an encoder on each port for 8 stepgens, two pwmgens and 2 
encoders per card with whats left as GPIO's.  But first, read the fine 
but tiny manual.  It also has mention of braking R's, but no terminals 
to attach them were to can be found. I did take it apart looking for 
those.

> On 07/25/2016 02:56 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings to you who are running an inverter driven spindle; I
> >>> have one of those 1 HP 230 volt 3 phase motors on the table, in
> >>> this case the one with the noisy bearings but it still rolls dead
> >>> free. With the inverter set to 90 hertz and its running, pushing
> >>> the green run/stop to stop it gets a rapid drop to around 75 hz,
> >>> then its turned loose to coast for quite a spell, 10 secs maybe,
> >>> at the end of which the DC comes on and its dead in its tracks in
> >>> less than 1 more rev.
>

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters

[Bruce Layne]

Russtuff just uploaded a quick video showing how to program a Huanyang 
VFD that might be helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OszQS_BQMk

He's programming it for RS485 control, which would be nice now that 
Huanyang VFD support is in LinuxCNC 2.7 and above.  I think many of the 
Huanyang inverters do not support the com port and it's difficult to 
tell which do from a visual inspection.  The eBay specs are usually 
cut-and-paste and are often incorrect.  I've read that even if the 
Huanyang VFD has the proper chipset to support the com port, it may not 
have the hardware as a cost saving "feature".  I have a few of these 
VFDs.  I should connect them to a motor one at a time and see if any of 
them support RS485, and use that for future CNC projects instead of 
relays and 0-10V analog control if possible.

However, even if you aren't interested in RS485, you might be interested 
in the part of the video that deals with the parameters for ramp up 
time, ramp down time, motor current, etc.



On 07/25/2016 02:56 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings to you who are running an inverter driven spindle; I have 
>>> one of those 1 HP 230 volt 3 phase motors on the table, in this case 
>>> the one with the noisy bearings but it still rolls dead free. With 
>>> the inverter set to 90 hertz and its running, pushing the green 
>>> run/stop to stop it gets a rapid drop to around 75 hz, then its 
>>> turned loose to coast for quite a spell, 10 secs maybe, at the end 
>>> of which the DC comes on and its dead in its tracks in less than 1 
>>> more rev. 
>>


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What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are 
consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, 
J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning
reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
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