Re: [Emc-users] c++ gui module

[theman whosoldtheworld]

thanks..

bkt

2017-06-12 0:47 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson :

> I read and it mostly seems to be about security. Realtime scheduling make
> sense for every task which is periodic or may be treated as a periodic
> task. A really good example is a serial receive buffer since data will be
> lost if not handled periodically.
>
> GUI I usually treat as periodic task with a dead time of about 20-50
> milliseconds even though it seldoms happens. Video I guess is about 30-50
> milliseconds. Servo loop is around 1 milliseconds and even though little
> computational power is required ordinary computer seems to have problem
> with this.
>
> They mention something about support for a real time operating system and
> for linuxcnc the kernel RT patch is used or RTAI. On a micro controller I
> most often use an interrupt with suitable priority, software is most often
> simple with only a few well known interrupts so most often it works really
> well.
>
>
> The most useful scheduling schemes are Earliest Dead Line first
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earliest_deadline_first_scheduling and for
> static priority rate monotonic which may be implemented with nested
> interrupts with priority https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Rate-monoton_schemal%C3%A4ggning
>
> Dead line should be equal to periodic which most often is possible. For
> video with a dubble buffer, for serial receive buffer interrupt is
> triggered then buffer is half full, ... It is commmon to talk about jitter
> which make som sense but for properly implented EDF or rate monotonic
> scheduling jitter within period make no difference.
>
>
> Here http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/code/Code_Notes.html at "4.
> Architecture overview" is probably what you need to understand how the
> different parts of linuxcnc is put together. The real time part I want to
> put on simple computer and the GUI on an ordinary computer since they are
> readily available cheap. There are two advantages: I want to keep real time
> communication local and remove real time demand from ordinary computer.
>
>
> Regards Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
>
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 23:19:27 +0200
> theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:
>
> > see these:
> > https://blog.qt.io/blog/2017/05/17/integrity-rtos-support-qt-5-9-lts/
> ...
> > As you said, me too I try is little bit hard use qt c++ program instead
> > Lcnc c/c++ for driving servos machines  but it promise rtos realtime
> so
> > sometings is for certain possible ... any how the goal for new qt5.9 rt
> is
> > automotive industries ... not robotics or chips machines ...the common
> > denominator is sending realtime command signals and receiving them, a
> > little logical work to make the signal available and allow the operator
> to
> > see or send these signals. Taking the sums I think is the first test to
> > pave the way for the qt to the future automatic driving machines.
> >
> > my intention is use qt5.9 to interface a gui using a modern opensource
> > industrial bus, with other electronics devices and some pc with Lcnc
> > without gui.I'm not going to use the industrial buses to drive the servo
> > ... I find it safer to use the command and safety buses (even in the
> servo)
> > and use traditional piloting for the positioning and the feedbak ... so
> two
> > different line to the servo on two totally different channels, analogue
> for
> > driving, digital for safety and functional. It's like having two dogs who
> > are guarding one against each other.
> >
> > The project would be: to create an rt component that starts as if it
> were a
> > gui at opening lcnc, the component starts a server connection of some
> > industrial bus and waits for queries from slaves or slaves, as for
> example
> > some commands / requests may arrive From a plc of security; Create a gui
> in
> > qt on remote pc having its main thread, secondary ones of service and
> then
> > one or more thread rt for communication to pc lcnc via industrial bus rt
> or
> > other devices (eg plc security).
> >
> > I've already relayed this thing with modbus as a test ... but modbus,
> even
> > turning very fast with new technologies, even over 115000, always sends
> 16
> > bits at a time ... for good remote control Of Lcnc serve at least 48 bits
> > for the on / off commands + others to have floats  so a fast and
> large
> > bus is what you need ... believe that's why Sebastian has used QUIC.
> >
> > I'm happy to chat with you about this.
> >
> > bkt
> >
> >
> > 2017-06-11 17:21 GMT+02:00 Nicklas Karlsson <
> nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:48:47 +0200
> > > theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:
> > >
> > > > ... thanks for your advice ... but there are 3-4 solution for these
> > > things
> > > > 
> > > > But at present I am more concerned with understanding the use of
> various
> > > > Lcnc files than any other.
> > >
> > > The lcnc files are a little bit hard to understand. The *.hal files are
> > > almost like netlists used for schematics. It make a lot more s

Re: [Emc-users] c++ gui module

[andy pugh]

On 11 June 2017 at 22:19, theman whosoldtheworld 
wrote:

> As you said, me too I try is little bit hard use qt c++ program instead
> Lcnc c/c++ for driving servos machines
>

Not 100% relevant to this discussion, but related: There has been some work
done on integrating QT with LinuxCNC.
See, for example, this feature branch:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/qt5vcp_master
(I know nothing about this branch other than that it exists, though)


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for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
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[Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Gene Heskett]

Hello Peter;

I have a problem trying to run linuxcnc on a pi 3b.

I think it could be solved if somehow, I could generate a 
watchdog.has_bit=false coincident with enabling the machine, but hals 
parser refuses to allow even a tristate_bit module to access and reset 
the watchdog.

Have you a hal snippet that will do that?

Thank you.
 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] c++ gui module

[theman whosoldtheworld]

I have already seen the repository, it can be a way to get to know better 
but pyqt is not qt c++ ... it does not change much to use py or pyqt
... said this is a great job.

Any how my intention is not to make a classic gui for Lcnc local machine ...
I find thay in local pc Lcnc is perfect as is it.

I think is possible it can do something for the group of machines ...
put on each machine a graphical interface is not my purpose.


bkt


2017-06-12 11:26 GMT+02:00 andy pugh :

> On 11 June 2017 at 22:19, theman whosoldtheworld 
> wrote:
>
> > As you said, me too I try is little bit hard use qt c++ program instead
> > Lcnc c/c++ for driving servos machines
> >
>
> Not 100% relevant to this discussion, but related: There has been some work
> done on integrating QT with LinuxCNC.
> See, for example, this feature branch:
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/qt5vcp_master
> (I know nothing about this branch other than that it exists, though)
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2017, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 12:07:15 -0400
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

Hello Peter;

I have a problem trying to run linuxcnc on a pi 3b.

I think it could be solved if somehow, I could generate a
watchdog.has_bit=false coincident with enabling the machine, but hals
parser refuses to allow even a tristate_bit module to access and reset
the watchdog.

Have you a hal snippet that will do that?

Thank you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett


I dont see any issue with clearing WD has bit:

 halcmd net clearwd hm2_7i92.0.watchdog.has_bit
 halcmd setp hm2_7i92.0.watchdog.timeout_ns 100 (this causes a WD bite)
 halcmd setp hm2_7i92.0.watchdog.timeout_ns 200 (back to a value that wont 
bite)
 halcmd sets clearwd false  (this clears the WD)




--
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soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Genes Web page 

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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Hello Peter;
> 
> I have a problem trying to run linuxcnc on a pi 3b.
> 
> I think it could be solved if somehow, I could generate a 
> watchdog.has_bit=false coincident with enabling the machine, but hals 
> parser refuses to allow even a tristate_bit module to access and reset 
> the watchdog.

I could vaguely remember a problem with the watchdog but can't remember how I 
solved it. I run 2.8.x and there is now word watchdog in neither the *.ini file 
nor the *.hal file.

Do the real time threads work well on a raspberry?

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Re: [Emc-users] c++ gui module

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:22:07 +0200
theman whosoldtheworld  wrote:

> I have already seen the repository, it can be a way to get to know better 
> but pyqt is not qt c++ ... it does not change much to use py or pyqt
> ... said this is a great job.
> 
> Any how my intention is not to make a classic gui for Lcnc local machine ...
> I find thay in local pc Lcnc is perfect as is it.
> 
> I think is possible it can do something for the group of machines ...
> put on each machine a graphical interface is not my purpose.

I am with you for group of machines. I have small engraver on or actually below 
the table and to run in remotely from ordinary PC make sense. I am pretty sure 
there are many other cases there it make sense to control several machines from 
one display, robots?

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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 06/12/2017 08:02 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> Do the real time threads work well on a raspberry?

Lets just say that we're not that far yet...

>From what I can tell, the initial start of linuxcnc results in a few
missed deadlines in the main task. But once all code is cached, it seems
to be fast enough. But time will tell.


The realtime kernels I've compiled so far are unstable and crash
randomly (kernel issues). So we're trying to get it running on a non-rt
kernel first. If that somehow works without crashing, then we can
concentrate on the kernel issues. I've a message about a stable kernel
from MK, but it needs to be seen if it has responsive mouse/keyboard,
which has been another issue.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Lets just say that we're not that far yet...
> 
> From what I can tell, the initial start of linuxcnc results in a few
> missed deadlines in the main task. But once all code is cached, it seems
> to be fast enough. But time will tell.

I also one missed dead line during the initial start. I have nothing to compare 
against so I can't tell if this is the same for everyone else?

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Re: [Emc-users] c++ gui module

[Chris Morley]

Andy is right there is a functional pyqt5 based VCP component on that branch.

While it is missing some of the fancier widgets that gladeVCP has there is a 
sparce,

but functional demo of controlling linuxcnc.

It is beta for sure and more work is needed but tyer is even some docs...


I should probably put it in master soon...


Chris m



From: andy pugh 
Sent: June 12, 2017 9:26 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] c++ gui module

On 11 June 2017 at 22:19, theman whosoldtheworld 
wrote:

> As you said, me too I try is little bit hard use qt c++ program instead
> Lcnc c/c++ for driving servos machines
>

Not 100% relevant to this discussion, but related: There has been some work
done on integrating QT with LinuxCNC.
See, for example, this feature branch:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/qt5vcp_master
[https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/5650508?v=3&s=400]

LinuxCNC/linuxcnc
github.com
linuxcnc - LinuxCNC controls CNC machines. It can drive milling machines, 
lathes, 3d printers, laser cutters, plasma cutters, robot arms, hexapods, and 
more.


(I know nothing about this branch other than that it exists, though)


--
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for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 12 June 2017 13:45:58 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 12:07:15 -0400
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >  Subject: [Emc-users] Question for
> > Peter C. Wallace
> >
> > Hello Peter;
> >
> > I have a problem trying to run linuxcnc on a pi 3b.
> >
> > I think it could be solved if somehow, I could generate a
> > watchdog.has_bit=false coincident with enabling the machine, but
> > hals parser refuses to allow even a tristate_bit module to access
> > and reset the watchdog.
> >
> > Have you a hal snippet that will do that?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I dont see any issue with clearing WD has bit:
>
>   halcmd net clearwd hm2_7i92.0.watchdog.has_bit
>   halcmd setp hm2_7i92.0.watchdog.timeout_ns 100 (this causes a WD

This is a 7i90, timeout_ns is not adjustable ANAICT.  Or it wasn't nearly 
a year ago the first time I tried, now it works. Thank you.

> bite) halcmd setp hm2_7i92.0.watchdog.timeout_ns 2000 (back to a
> value that wont bite) halcmd sets clearwd false  (this clears the WD)

And that works, now to arrange that its done whenever I enable the 
machine.  hal needs an if/then/else/endif command.  Badly.

Thank you Peter.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 06/12/2017 09:30 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>> Lets just say that we're not that far yet...
>> From what I can tell, the initial start of linuxcnc results in a few
>> missed deadlines in the main task. But once all code is cached, it seems
>> to be fast enough. But time will tell.
> 
> I also one missed dead line during the initial start. I have nothing
> to compare against so I can't tell if this is the same for everyone
> else?

I just installed an MK kernel(*):
Linux picnc 4.4.4-rt9-v7+ #7 SMP PREEMPT RT Mon Mar 7 14:53:11 UTC 2016
armv7l GNU/Linux

It still results in some initial missed deadlines. However, as before,
once the system is running it is stable. It also seems that this kernel
is actually usable.

I was able to drag the lcnc window over the screen with the preview tab
visible and there were no additional missed deadlines. So, it seems that
we are getting closer.


(*) There are some hacks to get this kernel installed. The documentation
at states that you need an updated bootloader, which, of course, I
promptly ignored. Then you need to reorganize the /boot content a bit to
get the kernel running. The old bootloader has apparently some fixed
paths which it uses (like kernel7.img and overlays/).

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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 12 June 2017 14:02:28 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> > Hello Peter;
> >
> > I have a problem trying to run linuxcnc on a pi 3b.
> >
> > I think it could be solved if somehow, I could generate a
> > watchdog.has_bit=false coincident with enabling the machine, but
> > hals parser refuses to allow even a tristate_bit module to access
> > and reset the watchdog.
>
> I could vaguely remember a problem with the watchdog but can't
> remember how I solved it. I run 2.8.x and there is now word watchdog
> in neither the *.ini file nor the *.hal file.
>
> Do the real time threads work well on a raspberry?

Definite sometimes, Nicklass. latency-test actually shows less jitter 
with a stock kernel, but figures lie. I am getting joint following 
errors with the stock kernel and 15 minute maximum uptimes with what 
purports to be a realtime kernel.

The stocker so far has just sat there and ducked everything I've thrown 
at it.  So this particular rt build is a very fragile bust IMNSHO. This 
kernel is crap: rpi3-kernel-4.9.30-rt20-v7+.tar.gz, uptimes are as short 
as 30 seconds even with my air hose keeping everything at ambient. And 
latency-test results in the 2 millisecond jitter area.

Ambinent in the garage is mid-70's F. unless I leave the big door open 
too long. 90F outside in the shade ATM.

So what we need is an rtai patched kernel for armhf, that also see's all 
the mouse clicks and keyboard strokes.  Most of these so-called rt 
kernels make me click the mouse 1-3 times, then miss the keyup, and the 
keyboard is even worse missing 75% of both the keydown's and worse yet, 
keyup's. I'd had the backspace key wipe out 4 lines of hal code before I 
can get it stopped.  There's a good thing I don't have a tape running, 
some of the expletives are pretty incendiary when that happens for the 
3rd time in the same minute.

Thinking about breaking down and buying a udoo x86, but the kickstarter 
page looks like the only place.  They keep ballyhooing the $89 price 
tag, but a buy button can't be found. Its also too big w/o starting over 
with an even bigger box.

Has anyone here received theirs yet?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 06/12/2017 11:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Do the real time threads work well on a raspberry?
> Definite sometimes, Nicklass. latency-test actually shows less jitter 
> with a stock kernel, but figures lie. I am getting joint following 
> errors with the stock kernel and 15 minute maximum uptimes with what 
> purports to be a realtime kernel.
> 
> The stocker so far has just sat there and ducked everything I've thrown 
> at it.  So this particular rt build is a very fragile bust IMNSHO. This 
> kernel is crap: rpi3-kernel-4.9.30-rt20-v7+.tar.gz, uptimes are as short 
> as 30 seconds even with my air hose keeping everything at ambient. And 
> latency-test results in the 2 millisecond jitter area.

I think we should try 4.4.4-rt9-v7+. It looks like a stable version
(currently running here).

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 12 June 2017 17:16:05 Bertho Stultiens wrote:

> On 06/12/2017 11:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> Do the real time threads work well on a raspberry?
> >
> > Definite sometimes, Nicklass. latency-test actually shows less
> > jitter with a stock kernel, but figures lie. I am getting joint
> > following errors with the stock kernel and 15 minute maximum uptimes
> > with what purports to be a realtime kernel.
> >
> > The stocker so far has just sat there and ducked everything I've
> > thrown at it.  So this particular rt build is a very fragile bust
> > IMNSHO. This kernel is crap: rpi3-kernel-4.9.30-rt20-v7+.tar.gz,
> > uptimes are as short as 30 seconds even with my air hose keeping
> > everything at ambient. And latency-test results in the 2 millisecond
> > jitter area.
>
> I think we should try 4.4.4-rt9-v7+. It looks like a stable version
> (currently running here).

I don't seem to have that one.  Hows the keyboard and mouse doing?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 06/12/2017 11:32 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> I think we should try 4.4.4-rt9-v7+. It looks like a stable version
>> (currently running here).
> 
> I don't seem to have that one.  Hows the keyboard and mouse doing?

Smooth...

Sent PM with details how to install.


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Re: [Emc-users] Question for Peter C. Wallace

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Maybe there is no need for a linux kernel. Have you read the manual for the
ARM CPU? Or what kind of CPU is it?

2017-06-12 23:36 GMT+02:00 Bertho Stultiens :

> On 06/12/2017 11:32 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> I think we should try 4.4.4-rt9-v7+. It looks like a stable version
> >> (currently running here).
> >
> > I don't seem to have that one.  Hows the keyboard and mouse doing?
>
> Smooth...
>
> Sent PM with details how to install.
>
>
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> Greetings Bertho
>
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>
> 
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