Re: [Emc-users] cooling fan speed an a 3d question.

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Why such a thin layer height? 0.2mm would print faster. 0.3mm prints even 
faster and can be stronger due to thicker layers and a whole bunch fewer layer 
to layer bonds. Of course the surface finish is rougher but at least for 
experimenting it would make the test models much quicker to print.

On Monday, September 7, 2020, 5:58:13 PM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
When making stuff out of plastic in a printer, its laid up a layer at a 
time. In this case the layers are .12mm thick.  Thats quite a bunch of 
layers if the part is 40mm tall.  
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Re: [Emc-users] hi temp 3d printers, are there any cheap ones?

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Home despot has Nashua 322 HVAC foil tape in a 50 yard roll for $7.88
 

On Monday, September 7, 2020, 12:50:49 PM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
 
 On Sunday 06 September 2020 23:37:46 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> Look for Kaowool. Blanket or rigid forms as thin as 1/4" Can take the
> rigid type and put aluminum flue tape on it to reflect radiant heat
> back at the hot bed. On my little Monoprice I put flue tape on a piece
> of cardboard from a Coca Cola 12 pack box and slid it under the bed.
> Helps the bed heat up faster and stay a more consistent temp.
>
Looks like it may be unobtainium on this local real estate.  Might see if 
fleabay has some.  I need to remove the bed and turn it over one 
complete turn because the cable is getting snarled around the left rear 
bedding knob, and occasionally self adjusting it. 
  
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC legacy or future

[N]

> ...
> Another comment was negative towards python.

That was me. Prefer languages with static datatypes then possible, one reason 
is then using static datatypes it is possible to check if pieces fit together 
before program is run, this is usually done by compiler. There are also a few 
other reasons.

 ...
> All programmers should have good knowledge of computer history (1970s to 
> late 1990s) before they are allowed to write code for use in production 
> environments. Programs would be way more efficient, easier to debug or 
> troubleshoot, etc.

Might be. Some knowledge about dynamic/static datatypes might be good and 
memory management. Static datatypes I already mentioned above. Then I write 
program I use to keep variables as local as possible, in C and if I remember 
correct ADA it is rather simple to limit scope even within function, for ADA I 
think it is even possible to use dynamic size of locally allocated variables 
like array but I seldom use ADA because of availibility.

> Is LinuxCNC going to stay as it is and end up as other old computer 
> technologies described in IEEE article "Inside the Hidden World of 
> Legacy IT Systems"
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/it/inside-hidden-world-legacy-it-systems

Have been working on a missing piece of Hardware for a few years but start to 
get satisfied with the result now. This also mean I could switch more attention 
to Linuxcnc.


Regards Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC legacy or future

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

> What LinuCNC is doing in its core was done on relatively simple systems
> without GUI long time ago. I believe that it's time for architectural
> change. Split GUI from RT section, and move away from the dependence on
> terrible PC architecture to industrial SBCs make sense to me. Imagine,
> we still have DOS functions in BIOS! And that is "emulated" in virtual
> machines in the data centers these days!
>

 I'm not even close of being a developer or a programmer because I really
lack the programming expertise (which I hope slowly I can gain) so I can
only speak as an integrator but I think what you're saying about moving to
SBCs is already happening. Off course it's not happening at a fast rate but
I think we'll eventually get there.

The problem I started to see here, and mostly since I suscribed to the
developers list, is that IMO there is only a few people doing all the hard
work (Andy being the first that comes to my mind because is the one I talk
to the most). It's not a complain but rather a compliment because the
developers on this project are doing pretty amazing stuff. I think the
solution here is for us integrators and frequent users of LinuxCNC to get
more involved into the development, in any way we can. This is a critic to
myself mostly, because sometimes I feel guilty about not having the time or
knowledge and expertise to contribute to that matter. For example, today is
one of those days that I can really sit and read thru the list and ask
something or may be respond something to someone, just because I'm too busy
with job's stuff.

But to sum up, I'm more that agree with what you're saying. But I think
that whatever happens with LinuxCNC 3.0 in the near future, we need to
think about portability so low cost SBCs and/or PCs are still supported
because I think that's one of the main concerns of this project (correct me
if I'm wrong).







El lun., 7 sept. 2020 a las 21:42, Bari () escribió:

> More details:
>
> MMC - Modern Machine Control
>
> Everything is STM32.
>
> Real time Ethernet with bridges to factory floor protocols.
>
> Distributed intelligence
>
> Easy to debug
>
> "All things to everyone", ATE GUI's.
>
> Support for any buses the OS supports, bus agnostic, ungendered,
> polytheistic, all-buses-to-everyone, no bus left behind, etc etc
>
> Arrives early vs just in time design
>
> No old hardware! You have been warned!
>
> All code over 6 months of age is automatically tossed.
>
> No developers are allowed to complain, only manage.
>
> CAM and CAD included for one stop shopping.
>
> No Clippy, but popups for what I think you want to do macros.
>
> Automagic updates while you sleep, on or off the machine.
>
> Wizards, witches, etc whatever it takes to make you happy.
>
> Post G-code ready.
>
>
>
> Main components (MC):
>
> Operator panel based on industry-compatible PC technology for the
> man-machine interface
>
> CNC control unit
>
> Programmable controller
>
> Drive modules for machine tool axes and spindles
>
> Motors (AC motors and linear drives)
>
> Supply and energy recovery unit (S/E unit)
>
>
> Digital Drive Control (DDC):
>
> High resolution digital speed and path monitoring
>
> Higher order control algorithms, in particular compensation of the lag
> induced contour error through speed and torque feed forward control
> (important in the case of high tool path feedrates and the resulting error)
>
> Wide range of analysis options, e.g. measurement of frequency response
>
> Automatic circular test with automatic optimisation of the reversing
> error that occurs at axis reversal points (quadrant error) using neural
> networks
>
> Connection of direct drives, e.g. linear motors
>
> Machine safety functions implemented across two channels using CNC and
> drive processors
>
>
> Look ahead feedrate control over more than 100 blocks
>
> Transformations, e.g. for clamping corrections or 5-axis transformation
>
> Elimination of contour error in the axes to provide greater path accuracy
>
> Torque damping along the feed path and in an axial direction to reduce
> machine wear
>
> Tool correction (length, radius, various types of cutter)
>
> Automatic path smoothing functions for smooth surfaces
>
> Compensation for mechanically induced errors
>
> Safe operation of the machine in the work area
>
> Compensation for temperature induced errors caused by high spindle
> speeds and axis feedrates through heating of the spindle and feed axes
>
> Compensation for friction errors at axis reversal points (quadrant errors)
>
> Compensation for leadscrew errors and errors in measuring system
>
> Compensation for angular and sag errors in machine tool through
> interpolative compensation (volumetric compensation or cross error
> compensation)
>
> Compensation for play in axes that are not measured directly
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

Re: [Emc-users] cooling fan speed an a 3d question.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 07 September 2020 20:45:01 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

> > I'm making stuff that LCNC will eventually run on a mill or lathe,
> > or that the Stellarium program can run to manage the precise aiming
> > of a star chasing telescope, but all the SW running the 3d printer
> > is the freebie stuff yu can download to work with the printer.
> >
> > The src code for this, in the form of .stl files came from a
> > thingyverse project, and TBT was not at all optimized to make a good
> > harmonic drive. Schloppy cad work IMO. So much of what I've been
> > doing is tweaking the sizes for closer performance, and finding a
> > suitable material to make each piece out of. PLA is extremely
> > brittle so flexgears last 1 to 10 minutes. TPU has way too much
> > flex, so while it can be made to go thru the motions, the motions
> > are, to be kind, inaccurate like there's a batch of rubber bands
> > running things. Then Hubert donated a spool of PETG, which is fairly
> > rigid, but bendable without sounding like a bag of popcorn in the
> > microwave if held up to your ear and the sides flexed inward a half
> > inch on each side.  So thats the flexgear material, but its not a
> > high speed material because it needs 50C hotter nozzles and beds
> > than PLA, and thats a problem for a $400 printer. So the plastic
> > flows slower.
> >
> > But I'm going to make new end-caps where the nema 17 motor that runs
> > these mounts, which as you know, can get hot, too hot for PLA
> > because it will cold flow at those motor temps.  This heat also
> > telegraphs up the motor shaft into the bearing carrier that runs
> > inside the flexgear and forces the flexgear into the eliptical shape
> > that does all the magic, destroying its ability to keep a good grip
> > on the motor shaft, so they are being made of PETG because of its
> > higher heat tolerance and may be superglued to the shaft in the
> > final assembly. The rest of the assembly isn't subjected to the
> > motors heat, so can be made of PLA.
> >
> > When making stuff out of plastic in a printer, its laid up a layer
> > at a time. In this case the layers are .12mm thick.  Thats quite a
> > bunch of layers if the part is 40mm tall.
> >
> > So the cad design's .stl is fed to a slicer, which makes gcode the
> > printer understands, telling the printer where to move to and how
> > fast as it draws a line of hot plastic by ejecting it thru typically
> > a .4mm nozzle tip as this tip travels over the part flying .12mm
> > above the previous layer.  Yeah, its slow, watching paint dry slow. 
> > But it also, if all the stars are properly aligned, works.  This
> > flexgear.gcode is aboout 40 megabytes.
> >
> > There are several slicers, commercial and freebies, I'm useing
> > UltiMaker's cura-4.7.0, which works fairly well and is a free
> > download from their site as a self contained appimage.
> >
> > The printer runs a gcode interpreter called Marlin, usually on an
> > arduino but it is no comparison to LCNC. Very simple, it doesn't do
> > curves, so the slicer has to break the curves up into short straight
> > lines that if you don't look too close, blend into curves.
> >
> > I am of course a new bee at this, so I am both learning and asking a
> > boatload of questions.
> >
> > Part to build bed adhesion can be a problem. You heard glue or hair
> > spray used and I can testify that when its stuck, it can be stuck
> > tight enough it will take a piece of glass with it. I finally found
> > a small eyebrow of glass missing from one of my two borosilicate
> > plates, stuck to the bottom of a bearing carrier that spent the
> > night in the freezer before it finally came loose.  Call it glue,
> > but what it really is, is a film that prevents that solid bonding
> > but which still holds the part as it being built.  A kids purple
> > glue stick, smeared around on the glass, then scrubbed into a just
> > noticable haze by a wet paper towel or a toothbrush works well.
> >
> > Probably more than you wanted to learn in one gulp. :)
> >
> > Stay safe and well, Leonardo.
>
> Thanks for the news on your work Gene, it's always good to know you're
> doing cool stuff. I'm tempted to get into 3d printing because
> sometimes I need to do things like keyboards, mounting frames, and so
> on for the machines I'm retrofitting but at the moment I'll send those
> jobs to a third party 3d printer. Sadly I can't get involved into that
> yet because there's too much work to do (which is not a bad thing at
> all).
>
> I'm retrofitting a new lathe. This was an hydro-copying german lathe
> (Heyligenstaedt brand) that was fully automatic but off course now
> it's a LCNC patient :). The thing is, the lathe had a fixed angled X
> joint that was casted and machined in that way so I'm now machining
> that structure to fit some roller guideways and make the X and Z axis
> perpendicular to work like a regular CNC lathe. I could have got away
> with that using kinematics but the problem is there was not enough
> room

Re: [Emc-users] cooling fan speed an a 3d question.

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> I'm making stuff that LCNC will eventually run on a mill or lathe, or
> that the Stellarium program can run to manage the precise aiming of a
> star chasing telescope, but all the SW running the 3d printer is the
> freebie stuff yu can download to work with the printer.
>
> The src code for this, in the form of .stl files came from a thingyverse
> project, and TBT was not at all optimized to make a good harmonic drive.
> Schloppy cad work IMO. So much of what I've been doing is tweaking the
> sizes for closer performance, and finding a suitable material to make
> each piece out of. PLA is extremely brittle so flexgears last 1 to 10
> minutes. TPU has way too much flex, so while it can be made to go thru
> the motions, the motions are, to be kind, inaccurate like there's a
> batch of rubber bands running things. Then Hubert donated a spool of
> PETG, which is fairly rigid, but bendable without sounding like a bag of
> popcorn in the microwave if held up to your ear and the sides flexed
> inward a half inch on each side.  So thats the flexgear material, but
> its not a high speed material because it needs 50C hotter nozzles and
> beds than PLA, and thats a problem for a $400 printer. So the plastic
> flows slower.
>
> But I'm going to make new end-caps where the nema 17 motor that runs
> these mounts, which as you know, can get hot, too hot for PLA because it
> will cold flow at those motor temps.  This heat also telegraphs up the
> motor shaft into the bearing carrier that runs inside the flexgear and
> forces the flexgear into the eliptical shape that does all the magic,
> destroying its ability to keep a good grip on the motor shaft, so they
> are being made of PETG because of its higher heat tolerance and may be
> superglued to the shaft in the final assembly. The rest of the assembly
> isn't subjected to the motors heat, so can be made of PLA.
>
> When making stuff out of plastic in a printer, its laid up a layer at a
> time. In this case the layers are .12mm thick.  Thats quite a bunch of
> layers if the part is 40mm tall.
>
> So the cad design's .stl is fed to a slicer, which makes gcode the
> printer understands, telling the printer where to move to and how fast
> as it draws a line of hot plastic by ejecting it thru typically a .4mm
> nozzle tip as this tip travels over the part flying .12mm above the
> previous layer.  Yeah, its slow, watching paint dry slow.  But it also,
> if all the stars are properly aligned, works.  This flexgear.gcode is
> aboout 40 megabytes.
>
> There are several slicers, commercial and freebies, I'm useing
> UltiMaker's cura-4.7.0, which works fairly well and is a free download
> from their site as a self contained appimage.
>
> The printer runs a gcode interpreter called Marlin, usually on an arduino
> but it is no comparison to LCNC. Very simple, it doesn't do curves, so
> the slicer has to break the curves up into short straight lines that if
> you don't look too close, blend into curves.
>
> I am of course a new bee at this, so I am both learning and asking a
> boatload of questions.
>
> Part to build bed adhesion can be a problem. You heard glue or hair spray
> used and I can testify that when its stuck, it can be stuck tight enough
> it will take a piece of glass with it. I finally found a small eyebrow
> of glass missing from one of my two borosilicate plates, stuck to the
> bottom of a bearing carrier that spent the night in the freezer before
> it finally came loose.  Call it glue, but what it really is, is a film
> that prevents that solid bonding but which still holds the part as it
> being built.  A kids purple glue stick, smeared around on the glass,
> then scrubbed into a just noticable haze by a wet paper towel or a
> toothbrush works well.
>
> Probably more than you wanted to learn in one gulp. :)
>
> Stay safe and well, Leonardo.


Thanks for the news on your work Gene, it's always good to know you're
doing cool stuff. I'm tempted to get into 3d printing because sometimes I
need to do things like keyboards, mounting frames, and so on for the
machines I'm retrofitting but at the moment I'll send those jobs to a third
party 3d printer. Sadly I can't get involved into that yet because there's
too much work to do (which is not a bad thing at all).

I'm retrofitting a new lathe. This was an hydro-copying german lathe
(Heyligenstaedt brand) that was fully automatic but off course now it's a
LCNC patient :). The thing is, the lathe had a fixed angled X joint that
was casted and machined in that way so I'm now machining that structure to
fit some roller guideways and make the X and Z axis perpendicular to work
like a regular CNC lathe. I could have got away with that using kinematics
but the problem is there was not enough room to fit the servo motor and
ballscrew support so this was the more practical solution.

On the other hand I'm in the middle of the process of building a CNC router
for another project (woodworking). Fortunately, I don't have too much
mac

Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC legacy or future

[Bari]

More details:

MMC - Modern Machine Control

Everything is STM32.

Real time Ethernet with bridges to factory floor protocols.

Distributed intelligence

Easy to debug

"All things to everyone", ATE GUI's.

Support for any buses the OS supports, bus agnostic, ungendered, 
polytheistic, all-buses-to-everyone, no bus left behind, etc etc


Arrives early vs just in time design

No old hardware! You have been warned!

All code over 6 months of age is automatically tossed.

No developers are allowed to complain, only manage.

CAM and CAD included for one stop shopping.

No Clippy, but popups for what I think you want to do macros.

Automagic updates while you sleep, on or off the machine.

Wizards, witches, etc whatever it takes to make you happy.

Post G-code ready.



Main components (MC):

Operator panel based on industry-compatible PC technology for the 
man-machine interface


CNC control unit

Programmable controller

Drive modules for machine tool axes and spindles

Motors (AC motors and linear drives)

Supply and energy recovery unit (S/E unit)


Digital Drive Control (DDC):

High resolution digital speed and path monitoring

Higher order control algorithms, in particular compensation of the lag 
induced contour error through speed and torque feed forward control 
(important in the case of high tool path feedrates and the resulting error)


Wide range of analysis options, e.g. measurement of frequency response

Automatic circular test with automatic optimisation of the reversing 
error that occurs at axis reversal points (quadrant error) using neural 
networks


Connection of direct drives, e.g. linear motors

Machine safety functions implemented across two channels using CNC and 
drive processors



Look ahead feedrate control over more than 100 blocks

Transformations, e.g. for clamping corrections or 5-axis transformation

Elimination of contour error in the axes to provide greater path accuracy

Torque damping along the feed path and in an axial direction to reduce 
machine wear


Tool correction (length, radius, various types of cutter)

Automatic path smoothing functions for smooth surfaces

Compensation for mechanically induced errors

Safe operation of the machine in the work area

Compensation for temperature induced errors caused by high spindle 
speeds and axis feedrates through heating of the spindle and feed axes


Compensation for friction errors at axis reversal points (quadrant errors)

Compensation for leadscrew errors and errors in measuring system

Compensation for angular and sag errors in machine tool through 
interpolative compensation (volumetric compensation or cross error 
compensation)


Compensation for play in axes that are not measured directly




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Re: [Emc-users] Cutter compensation

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm too used to not using tool wear
compensation that I forget about that. I only have to compensate for Z and
X differences when they are too much of a trouble for the finishing
grinding process after, and I usually do that by hand  from time to time. I
certainly can give cutter compensation a try.

El lun., 7 sept. 2020 a las 20:49, Jon Elson ()
escribió:

> On 09/07/2020 03:24 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > Is it any advantage in using cutter compensation when programming the
> > g-code using CAM? Because since I've started working with CAM for my
> > turning programs I like to let the software do all the compensation. By
> the
> > way, I'm talking only about lathe programs. I don't know if this could be
> > an advantage for the mill machine user.
> >
> >
> The advantage is you can adjust the size of the part or
> compensate for tool wear without recreating the G-code.
> This is less of an issue today than when G-code programs
> came on punched paper tapes.
>
> Jon
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] cooling fan speed an a 3d question.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 07 September 2020 16:26:56 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

> Gene,
>
> Is this printer controlled by LinuxCNC? I know you've been doing a lot
> of work making LCNC to work with the Pi but I don't remember if you
> were controlling your 3d printer or another machine with that.
>
I'm making stuff that LCNC will eventually run on a mill or lathe, or 
that the Stellarium program can run to manage the precise aiming of a 
star chasing telescope, but all the SW running the 3d printer is the 
freebie stuff yu can download to work with the printer.

The src code for this, in the form of .stl files came from a thingyverse 
project, and TBT was not at all optimized to make a good harmonic drive. 
Schloppy cad work IMO. So much of what I've been doing is tweaking the 
sizes for closer performance, and finding a suitable material to make 
each piece out of. PLA is extremely brittle so flexgears last 1 to 10 
minutes. TPU has way too much flex, so while it can be made to go thru 
the motions, the motions are, to be kind, inaccurate like there's a 
batch of rubber bands running things. Then Hubert donated a spool of 
PETG, which is fairly rigid, but bendable without sounding like a bag of 
popcorn in the microwave if held up to your ear and the sides flexed 
inward a half inch on each side.  So thats the flexgear material, but 
its not a high speed material because it needs 50C hotter nozzles and 
beds than PLA, and thats a problem for a $400 printer. So the plastic 
flows slower.

But I'm going to make new end-caps where the nema 17 motor that runs 
these mounts, which as you know, can get hot, too hot for PLA because it 
will cold flow at those motor temps.  This heat also telegraphs up the 
motor shaft into the bearing carrier that runs inside the flexgear and 
forces the flexgear into the eliptical shape that does all the magic, 
destroying its ability to keep a good grip on the motor shaft, so they 
are being made of PETG because of its higher heat tolerance and may be 
superglued to the shaft in the final assembly. The rest of the assembly 
isn't subjected to the motors heat, so can be made of PLA. 

When making stuff out of plastic in a printer, its laid up a layer at a 
time. In this case the layers are .12mm thick.  Thats quite a bunch of 
layers if the part is 40mm tall.

So the cad design's .stl is fed to a slicer, which makes gcode the 
printer understands, telling the printer where to move to and how fast 
as it draws a line of hot plastic by ejecting it thru typically a .4mm 
nozzle tip as this tip travels over the part flying .12mm above the 
previous layer.  Yeah, its slow, watching paint dry slow.  But it also, 
if all the stars are properly aligned, works.  This flexgear.gcode is 
aboout 40 megabytes.

There are several slicers, commercial and freebies, I'm useing 
UltiMaker's cura-4.7.0, which works fairly well and is a free download 
from their site as a self contained appimage.

The printer runs a gcode interpreter called Marlin, usually on an arduino 
but it is no comparison to LCNC. Very simple, it doesn't do curves, so 
the slicer has to break the curves up into short straight lines that if 
you don't look too close, blend into curves.

I am of course a new bee at this, so I am both learning and asking a 
boatload of questions.

Part to build bed adhesion can be a problem. You heard glue or hair spray 
used and I can testify that when its stuck, it can be stuck tight enough 
it will take a piece of glass with it. I finally found a small eyebrow 
of glass missing from one of my two borosilicate plates, stuck to the 
bottom of a bearing carrier that spent the night in the freezer before 
it finally came loose.  Call it glue, but what it really is, is a film 
that prevents that solid bonding but which still holds the part as it 
being built.  A kids purple glue stick, smeared around on the glass, 
then scrubbed into a just noticable haze by a wet paper towel or a 
toothbrush works well.

Probably more than you wanted to learn in one gulp. :)

Stay safe and well, Leonardo.

> El lun., 7 sept. 2020 a las 17:24, Gene Heskett
> ()
>
> escribió:
> > On Monday 07 September 2020 16:01:05 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Monday 07 September 2020 14:57:13 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > I just noted that when it starts building the splines on the
> > > > flexgear, that the color is getting air and hair contaminated,
> > > > turning frosty. So since I've got the extra snout installed, I'm
> > > > wondering if its cooling too fast, so I did a tune->fan speed
> > > > down to 52% to see if the slower cooling gives it time to flow
> > > > smooth and restore the color. Report later after its done a few
> > > > layers.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > >
> > > It occured to me that less cooling aimed at the nozzle would also
> > > help its ability to supply flow, so I am upping that about 1% a
> > > layer, up to 104% so far, with no skip clicks from the extruder
> > > drive. Too bad I can't control both at the 

Re: [Emc-users] Cutter compensation

[Jon Elson]

On 09/07/2020 03:24 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

Is it any advantage in using cutter compensation when programming the
g-code using CAM? Because since I've started working with CAM for my
turning programs I like to let the software do all the compensation. By the
way, I'm talking only about lathe programs. I don't know if this could be
an advantage for the mill machine user.


The advantage is you can adjust the size of the part or 
compensate for tool wear without recreating the G-code.  
This is less of an issue today than when G-code programs 
came on punched paper tapes.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC legacy or future

[Bari]

Somebody is already working on that without the use of Linux. Might as 
well start calling it Lindows with all the crap inserted lately.



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Re: [Emc-users] Error with ISO image

[R C]

I had some issues with it too.  Somehow  the installer messes up setting 
the boot dev in grub (or whatever it is called in debian.)


The installer goes haywire if there are more then 1 drives, at least 
that is what I noticed.


(don't know if that's your issue, it also sees activated SAS ports as 
drives.)



you can either (in the BIOS)  turn the drives you don't need, for now, 
"off" so that there's only one hard drive (and a USB stick/drive or so.)



OR  after the install,  boot with the install media, in rescue mode,  
mount the drive you tried to install on and fix the grub.



I had those issues on different machines that I tried,  what happens, 
for example,  is you're trying to install on /dev/sda, but  you have a 
few other drives..  the installer  counts them and then thinks the one 
after last is the boot device.   for example if you have 4 drives,  it 
sticks /dev/sde in there. When booting it thinks the boot partition is 
on another device.


I tried it with "regular" debian too,  'their' installer is broken,  
it's not a linux-CNC issue.



Ron



On 9/7/20 3:36 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 at 06:35, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:


I downloaded ISO image with 2.7.14 version and I cannot make it to
work.

Can you try http://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc-2.8.0-buster.iso ?

It has just worked for me on two machines (one an od D510MO board, and
one a brand-new machine with a pre-installed WIndows10 ad UEFI.

(and if it still fails at the cdrom stage, unplugging and replugging
the USB then pressing "continue" is alleged to work. But I really
would prefer it to work without that.)




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Re: [Emc-users] Error with ISO image

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 at 06:35, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:

> I downloaded ISO image with 2.7.14 version and I cannot make it to
> work.

Can you try http://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc-2.8.0-buster.iso ?

It has just worked for me on two machines (one an od D510MO board, and
one a brand-new machine with a pre-installed WIndows10 ad UEFI.

(and if it still fails at the cdrom stage, unplugging and replugging
the USB then pressing "continue" is alleged to work. But I really
would prefer it to work without that.)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] LinuxCNC legacy or future

[Rafael Skodlar]

As soon as I saw Chris Albertson reply to Greg Bernard "Interesting GUI" 
I knew what will happen because I posted somewhat similar message about 
a year ago. Numerous attacks followed right away. The only surprise was 
a size of the response this time so I decided to split from that thread.


Attacks from some individuals that are stuck in yesterday is very 
disappointing. Others, including myself, that understand open source 
software and related development are in support of what Chris is saying.


IMO it's extremely bad to attack those who come up with "it would be 
nice to have this or that" in existing product. Saying, "it's open 
source, go fork and write your own code" is plain STUPID! We are not all 
programmers! [1]


[1] Before you (individual) attack me, let me tell you that I too worked 
on computer systems in the early 1980s. Oscilloscope, soldering iron, 
spare parts were my tools to get PDP-*, HP-*, S-100, Multibus, back in 
functional order. Those were all industrial systems, some very critical 
like X-ray machines, power plants, electric grids, etc.


Working on electronics side of computer systems kept me away from 
software side so I never became a programmer. To learn at home I had to 
smuggle my first ZX-81 and Amstrad (CP/M) behind the Iron Curtain.


As soon as the PCs became affordable and I made some money here in the 
US I bought XT clone and started learning whatever was possible decade 
before the Internet. One manager told me that my experiments with 
introducing Linux to National Semiconductor in 1994 have no future. 
Solaris was the king for engineers.


As technologies changed, my career veered into systems administration 
supporting software developers mostly on Unix and Linux systems. Since 
then I've seen my share of bad starts in coding projects. They are clear 
indication of what code or style the first few programmers knew.
Lack of OS experience is the most dangerous one. "Running around with 
Windows laptop" and using "porta"potty to connect to Linux is one 
example I've seen too many times and it shows in final products all the 
time.

---

I follow this LinuxCNC mailing list for years mostly as a systems 
administrator. I would like to see and support it in industrial 
environments. Unfortunately the demand is not there. When I talk to 
potential users it becomes very clear that what Chris, Greg, and some 
others were saying is true.


I paid for and supported open source software including buying Linux on 
floppies and CDs. I sent donations to software developers and would not 
mind doing so for LinuxCNC project (hardware and software) if it helped 
me make money. If I had a chance to install it in an industrial 
environment I would suggest the company contributed to
SW development. One of my managers paid hundreds for GNU CD package in 
the mid 90s.


What LinuCNC is doing in its core was done on relatively simple systems 
without GUI long time ago. I believe that it's time for architectural 
change. Split GUI from RT section, and move away from the dependence on 
terrible PC architecture to industrial SBCs make sense to me. Imagine, 
we still have DOS functions in BIOS! And that is "emulated" in virtual 
machines in the data centers these days!


Some SBCs are very expensive, others are cheap but poorly designed from 
the electro-mechanical point of view. For example, RaspberryPi, BB, and 
clones are good from programming side but not ready for industrial use. 
Try to use scope on a middle board sandwiched between the RPi and 
another PCB. What's most important is compatible interfaces developed by 
different vendors.


Digital Corporation and HP encouraged that with open bus architectures 
that handled multiple boards with well designed RT OS in PDP-* buses 
over 40 years ago. Unibus, HP-IB, etc. I don't see that in LinuxCNC 
world. It's great to see some people making $$$ from it but there is no 
big industry or competition behind it.


One comment in that long thread mentioned whyfy as a totally unsuitable 
way to communicate on machine shop floor. Time to read about net 
technologies and related industry trends. Learn about 5G and how it 
makes it possible to rearange CNC robots on the manufacturing floor 
without rewiring the whole shop! Granted, we hobbyists and small machine 
shops cannot afford this from the beginning but all things trickle down 
eventually.


Another comment was negative towards python. Too bad. Python library is 
huge which saves you from writing a lot of code. Python is used 
extensively in Blender, ROS, graphical presentation of data, simulation, 
systems administration, etc. Perl is dead. Most scripts I wrote in it 
are gone with the companies.


I would rather see a resurrection of Multibus like architecture with 
modern CPUs and peripherals for CNC use than running "special test" to 
find out which freaking motherboard with parallel port on PCI card is 
suitable for Linux RT kernel and LinuxCNC. Intel designed Multibus for 
RT use

Re: [Emc-users] Cutter compensation

[N]

Could change cutter diameter and program still works but this should be the 
only advantage.

Used CAM module, "path workbench" in Freecad, not sure if I made some error but 
it did not work well for me. Simple path, should have an arc in each corner. It 
upper right corner it decided some kind of pecking cycle was a good idea, 
drilling an arc of tightly space holes. Source is available so it should be 
possibe to do something about it and think the back is good.

> Is it any advantage in using cutter compensation when programming the
> g-code using CAM? Because since I've started working with CAM for my
> turning programs I like to let the software do all the compensation. By the
> way, I'm talking only about lathe programs. I don't know if this could be
> an advantage for the mill machine user.
> 
> El lun., 7 sept. 2020 a las 16:51, N ()
> escribió:
> 
> > > On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 20:20, N  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > First thing I noticed then reading about cutter compensation is some
> > use G41,G42 while Linuxcnc use G42,G43 for different side of cutter.
> > >
> > > I don't think so. G43 is cutter _length_ compensation.
> >
> > Yes reading again, work to long days and are probably to tired, don't know
> > why I mixed them up. Though still got some confusing movements.


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Re: [Emc-users] Cutter compensation

[Ed]

On 9/7/20 2:48 PM, N wrote:

On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 20:20, N  wrote:

First thing I noticed then reading about cutter compensation is some use 
G41,G42 while Linuxcnc use G42,G43 for different side of cutter.

I don't think so. G43 is cutter _length_ compensation.

Yes reading again, work to long days and are probably to tired, don't know why 
I mixed them up. Though still got some confusing movements.


Make your last Z move above Z0 or have the cutter well clear before you 
cancel cutter comp. The next move after cancelling will move the 
effective cutting line back to the center of the cutter, if it is near 
to a surface it may clip it on the way.



Ed.




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Re: [Emc-users] cooling fan speed an a 3d question.

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Gene,

Is this printer controlled by LinuxCNC? I know you've been doing a lot of
work making LCNC to work with the Pi but I don't remember if you were
controlling your 3d printer or another machine with that.



El lun., 7 sept. 2020 a las 17:24, Gene Heskett ()
escribió:

> On Monday 07 September 2020 16:01:05 Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> > On Monday 07 September 2020 14:57:13 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > I just noted that when it starts building the splines on the
> > > flexgear, that the color is getting air and hair contaminated,
> > > turning frosty. So since I've got the extra snout installed, I'm
> > > wondering if its cooling too fast, so I did a tune->fan speed down
> > > to 52% to see if the slower cooling gives it time to flow smooth and
> > > restore the color. Report later after its done a few layers.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > It occured to me that less cooling aimed at the nozzle would also help
> > its ability to supply flow, so I am upping that about 1% a layer, up
> > to 104% so far, with no skip clicks from the extruder drive. Too bad I
> > can't control both at the layer count in cura, I think it might be
> > helpfull.
> >
> Another PS, I am up to 106% for flow, and the solid candy red color has
> returned to the splines, 23% for fan speed, I'd guess its turning 400
> rpms, so no great cooling effect.  This is a definite improvement in
> laying solid plastic.
>
> So put this in your trivia basket.
>
> This piece is about done.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Cutter compensation

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Is it any advantage in using cutter compensation when programming the
g-code using CAM? Because since I've started working with CAM for my
turning programs I like to let the software do all the compensation. By the
way, I'm talking only about lathe programs. I don't know if this could be
an advantage for the mill machine user.

El lun., 7 sept. 2020 a las 16:51, N ()
escribió:

> > On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 20:20, N  wrote:
> > >
> > > First thing I noticed then reading about cutter compensation is some
> use G41,G42 while Linuxcnc use G42,G43 for different side of cutter.
> >
> > I don't think so. G43 is cutter _length_ compensation.
>
> Yes reading again, work to long days and are probably to tired, don't know
> why I mixed them up. Though still got some confusing movements.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] cooling fan speed an a 3d question.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 07 September 2020 16:01:05 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 07 September 2020 14:57:13 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I just noted that when it starts building the splines on the
> > flexgear, that the color is getting air and hair contaminated,
> > turning frosty. So since I've got the extra snout installed, I'm
> > wondering if its cooling too fast, so I did a tune->fan speed down
> > to 52% to see if the slower cooling gives it time to flow smooth and
> > restore the color. Report later after its done a few layers.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> It occured to me that less cooling aimed at the nozzle would also help
> its ability to supply flow, so I am upping that about 1% a layer, up
> to 104% so far, with no skip clicks from the extruder drive. Too bad I
> can't control both at the layer count in cura, I think it might be
> helpfull.
>
Another PS, I am up to 106% for flow, and the solid candy red color has 
returned to the splines, 23% for fan speed, I'd guess its turning 400 
rpms, so no great cooling effect.  This is a definite improvement in 
laying solid plastic.

So put this in your trivia basket.

This piece is about done.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] cooling fan speed an a 3d question.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 07 September 2020 14:57:13 Gene Heskett wrote:

> I just noted that when it starts building the splines on the flexgear,
> that the color is getting air and hair contaminated, turning frosty. 
> So since I've got the extra snout installed, I'm wondering if its
> cooling too fast, so I did a tune->fan speed down to 52% to see if the
> slower cooling gives it time to flow smooth and restore the color. 
> Report later after its done a few layers.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

It occured to me that less cooling aimed at the nozzle would also help 
its ability to supply flow, so I am upping that about 1% a layer, up to 
104% so far, with no skip clicks from the extruder drive. Too bad I 
can't control both at the layer count in cura, I think it might be 
helpfull. 

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Cutter compensation

[N]

> On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 20:20, N  wrote:
> >
> > First thing I noticed then reading about cutter compensation is some use 
> > G41,G42 while Linuxcnc use G42,G43 for different side of cutter.
> 
> I don't think so. G43 is cutter _length_ compensation.

Yes reading again, work to long days and are probably to tired, don't know why 
I mixed them up. Though still got some confusing movements.


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Re: [Emc-users] Cutter compensation

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 20:20, N  wrote:
>
> First thing I noticed then reading about cutter compensation is some use 
> G41,G42 while Linuxcnc use G42,G43 for different side of cutter.

I don't think so. G43 is cutter _length_ compensation.

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gcode.html

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] Cutter compensation

[N]

First thing I noticed then reading about cutter compensation is some use 
G41,G42 while Linuxcnc use G42,G43 for different side of cutter.

Sometimes I get a little bit confusing moves. Turning off cutter compensation 
with G40 and move in one direction only and it seems to decompensate in other 
direction. Happen to know if these are well defined for all cases? Or if there 
are any issues?


Regards Nicklas Karlsson


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[Emc-users] cooling fan speed an a 3d question.

[Gene Heskett]

I just noted that when it starts building the splines on the flexgear, 
that the color is getting air and hair contaminated, turning frosty.  So 
since I've got the extra snout installed, I'm wondering if its cooling 
too fast, so I did a tune->fan speed down to 52% to see if the slower 
cooling gives it time to flow smooth and restore the color.  Report 
later after its done a few layers.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] hi temp 3d printers, are there any cheap ones?

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 06 September 2020 23:37:46 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> Look for Kaowool. Blanket or rigid forms as thin as 1/4" Can take the
> rigid type and put aluminum flue tape on it to reflect radiant heat
> back at the hot bed. On my little Monoprice I put flue tape on a piece
> of cardboard from a Coca Cola 12 pack box and slid it under the bed.
> Helps the bed heat up faster and stay a more consistent temp.
>
Looks like it may be unobtainium on this local real estate.  Might see if 
fleabay has some.  I need to remove the bed and turn it over one 
complete turn because the cable is getting snarled around the left rear 
bedding knob, and occasionally self adjusting it. 

> On Sunday, September 6, 2020, 9:59:47 AM MDT, Gene Heskett
>  wrote:
>
>  On Sunday 06 September 2020 10:25:34 Art Eckstein wrote:
> > 2. Insulate the underside of your bed.  On one of
> > my printers, the factory installation would
> > struggle to get to 65°C. I insulated with some
> > ceramic blanket gotten off our favorite auction
> > site and it will verifiably get to 123°C!
>
> What is it called on fleabay?
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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