[Emc-users] Trajectory Planning
Hi! Around the corner, aka the 3d printing world of the RepRap universe, the jump from arduino to ARM microcontrollers is on the road. This means, that descend trajecory planning is now theoretically possible. Is there any place, where one could learn how the motion planning _really_ works, e.g. scientific papers, writeups, blog entries? The wikipages are not very helpful, [1], for porting the algorithms to a decent library. Think of is as a needed successor of grbl. very nice greetings, Bernhard Kubicek [1] http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TrajectoryControl -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Trajectory planning and other topics from a EMC(LinuxCNC) newbie (TheNewbie)
Is the one-line lookahead statement also true blended paths? And how does it apply to splines? I find all this quite surprising, even grbl does lookahead over all the lines in the buffer (and hence has a latency while trying to pause or stop) Does somebody know if this diagram is whats linuxcnc does, or if its just a proposal: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Trapezoidal_Velocity_Profile_Trajectory_Planner Are there any good theoretical books about trajectory planning/step generation that somebody could recommend (non-popular, hardcore numerics preferred)? Arc fitting is not very easy it seems. Of all the reprap slicers, only slic3r can create arcs by looking for repetitive segments of same length and connecting at similar angles . The problem is that the 3d object itself is defined as stl files, and hence exists only as small patches of lines after slicing. And I know of no pcb isolation milling software that creates fitted arcs (while tracing lines in a 300dpi image). There are a couple of algorithms for finding the arc, if you know that some points are supposed to be on an arc. The problem starts when trying to decide, where arcs start and where they stop optimally. very nice greetings, Bernhard On 3/19/2012 4:30 AM, Youda He wrote: > This is very interesting, we are planning to.start using linuxcnc some time > in near future. We mainly mill organic shapes, such as 3DProcessing scanned > head models, the models start as mesh stl models with million a of small > triangles we would like to mill at fastest possible speed and can tolerate > some error in precision. Do we need to insert g64 on start, or is it by > default start in maximum speed mode. or is Mack3 in this case is a better > solution? > On Mar 18, 2012 7:21 PM, "Steve Blackmore" wrote: > >> On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 17:28:05 +0100, you wrote: >> >> >>> My assumption about Tarjectory planning was based on Anders Wallins >>> message as he mentioned some problem with limited look-ahead, >>> I suppose this affects the shape of the calculated path in some cases? >> Effectively LinuxCNC only looks ahead one line. >> >> > From my experience with 2.4.6 it's poor on arc to line or line to arc >> moves using a parallel port setup with steppers. It's very jerky >> compared to Mach3 with the same settings. >> >> Steve Blackmore >> -- >> >> >> -- >> This SF email is sponsosred by: >> Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> > -- > This SF email is sponsosred by: > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Documentation
well, no realtime needed on a host pc, or even no host at all, like e.g. on ultimaker+ultipanel+sd card printing. the only thing todo for smoothie is blending+ better motion control. and maybe support for variables, loops, and other rather complex stuff. On 3/24/2012 7:28 PM, Greg Bernard wrote: > I too have been following all the various CNC schemes being implemented on > small boards but I fail to see the advantage over a computer based controller > either with LinuxCNC or Mach. Seems to be a lot of misplaced effort. Am I > missing something? > > > > >> >> From: Kirk Wallace >> To: LinuxCNC Users List >> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 1:13 PM >> Subject: [Emc-users] Documentation >> >> I happened upon this and thought it worth posting: >> http://smoothieware.org/howitworks >> >> any artists on this list? >> -- >> Kirk Wallace >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html >> California, USA >> >> >> -- >> This SF email is sponsosred by: >> Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> >> >> > -- > This SF email is sponsosred by: > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Visolate
On 3/25/2012 1:03 PM, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: > successfully get visolate to successfully run on a 10.04 system, > and if so, what did you do? You could try my github fork of pcb2gcode [1]. It has pathoptimization, and simplification. There is an additional shell script, to call eagle, and export the gerber layers automatically [2]. The only problem is to make it compile. Also, no stupid gui. [1] https://github.com/bkubicek/pcb2gcode [2] https://github.com/bkubicek/Metaboard -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Trajectory planning and other topics from a EMC(LinuxCNC) newbie (TheNewbie)
On 4/19/2012 9:02 PM, Kenneth Lerman wrote: > Is anyone here interested in writing a filter that takes as input a > tolerance (error band) and a sequence of motions (arcs and line > segments) and generates a new sequence of motions that duplicates the > original within the error band? It sounds like that would be one way to > address the problem. Slic3r has implemented a similar feature, the algorithms can be snitched there. I have also made some calculations here, but for actual refinements of arcs segments: bernhardkubicek.soup.io/post/191097625/If-you-have-a-path-of-segments -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Trajectory planning and other topics from a EMC(LinuxCNC) newbie (TheNewbie)
On 4/20/2012 6:29 PM, Scott Hasse wrote: > Unfortunately, this approach doesn't work well for things like plastic > extrusion where it can be difficult to control the extrusion rate precisely. > Repraps, etc are able to succeed in part because they take a very naive > approach to trajectory planning and can get away with it because of the low > moving mass. They basically try to fly around at a consistent speed > regardless, and extrude at a constant rate. Yes they have to maintain speed, because any speed change would create over/underdeposition because of the nozzle time constant/overpressure. But also it should be remarked, that Marlin uses up to 32 lines lookahead for which it processes acceleration curves in advance. There is a velocity magnitude, any change of the speed vector less than this velocity will be done without acceleration. Any breaking and accelerating is done so that one reaches this "jerk" velocity change is reached at corners. From what I understand, EMC would be much slower following a typical 3d-printing gcode than marlin, due to the 1-line lookahead. What however would be nice is blending, and arc step generation, to run through with even more constant velocity. greetings, Bernhard Kubicek -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Sprinter Easy Install tool for 3D Printer
most likely a scam, as the previous mail already stated. However, http://daid2.mine.nu/~daid/marlin_build/ is not. It is a compile farm for the Marlin firmware, which is obviously for 3d printing, but could also be abused in combination with a suitable electronics board for cnc stuff. Daid's project lowers the bar to use complicated software. I kind of like the idea, and think this concept of web-based configuration generators could be also interesting for linuxcnc. greetings, bernhard On 5/2/2012 12:13 AM, rob c wrote: > For anyone interested in a simple install tool for a open source 3D printer > try http://whatisacnc.com/sprinter/ > It is a little unrelated to EMC but figured someone maybe interested. > I have been fooling around with a program for Arduino and will post a link to > the program when finished, the goal is to have Arduino work with EMC or Mach3 > without the need for any other IC's or boards, simply plug the Arduino into > the computer after attaching some drivers to the Micro-Processor and do the > rest in Mach3. > For now we have an install tool for any Atmega board used to run a 3D > printer, updates are ongoing and a new version will be made available mid > month (May 2012) everyone who has registered will be supplied a copy > immediatly after launch, again for anyone interested please check out > http://whatisacnc.com/sprinter/ > > Thanks > > Rob > > http://www.whatisacnc.com > -- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] compile program
Its a script, and scripts do not need to be compiled.
The first line is the command to which the following text shall be forwarded
as program input. in your case "wish".
You make the file executeable by chmod +x thefilename
then you can call it by ./thefilename.
If, you have "wish" installed.
Have a nice welcome to linux command shells :)
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Binh Hoang wrote:
> I have a following program:
> #!/usr/local/bin/wish
>
> button .hello -text Hello \
>
>-command {puts stdout "Hello, World!"}
>
> pack .hello -padx 20 -pady 10
>
> How to know to compile this program?
> Thank you very much for me!
>
> --
> Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval
> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval
Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
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Re: [Emc-users] compile program
there is no document. read http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/linuxcommand.org/learning_the_shell.php for linux introduction. read your linux distribution's documentation otherwise on how to install "wish". On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Binh Hoang wrote: > Can you give me the document of your guidance ? or you explain clearly > for > me, please! ..thank you very much. > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
I usually home all axis once in axis, then jog to my intended origin, say x->touch off->0,y->touch off->0, and of course z->touch off->0.1 or the minimal amount i am over the piece. I have no home switches. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Alex Joni wrote: > You use the touchoff button for that: > http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gui_axis.html#cap:Touch-Off > > G54 should be active by default (unless you select another coordinate > system > using g55..g59.3). > > Regards, > Alex > > - Original Message - > From: "John Guenther" > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:26 PM > Subject: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day. > > > > Good Morning, > > > > I am new to EMC2, I used EMC when I first got into CNC but switched to > > Mach for many reasons that are not worth discussing here. My question > > relates to initial part setup. I can't seem to find a simple way to > > tell my mill where zero is. I use an electronic edge finder, so for > > esample I jog the X axis around until I couch the left edge of the part. > > Now, how do I tell EMC2 this is X0.0? If it makes any difference this > > is a small benchtop mill and the way I work X0, Y0 is the lower left > > corner of the part or material and none of my g-code uses the G54 - > > G59.3 Select Coordinate System codes. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > John Guenther > > 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' > > Sterling, Virginia > > > > > > > -- > > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CAM solutions
it already exists. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?GcodeGenerator however I never took the time to learn blender. greetings, bernhard On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Sven Wesley wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 1:41 AM, a...@conceptmachinery.com wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > I bought Rhino and importantly it is only 3D surface modeling software > > > where nurbs is a part. NURBS let you grab point and drag it and it > change > > > whole surface. It is interesting option. > > > > Blender is a powerful modeling app that also supports nurbs. It has the > > added benefit of being free. > > (http://www.blender.org/) > > > > -Tom > > > > > I wouldn't say "only" a 3D surface modeller. It is that, yes, but it's very > powerful and capable of more than free modelling. > I have Blender as well, not as user friendly though. If someone writes a > CAM-plugin for Blender then there will be something very very useful. > > Regards, > Sven > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] compile program
iar wll come! On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Binh Hoang wrote: > I really orange on rayh very much! > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CAM solutions
camexpert is the "advanced" qcad, where you can export gcode. But it does not support cutter radius compensation, nor pocketing by itself. There is some optimization of paths; Manually reordering of things is not working well for me. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Tuesday 23 March 2010, Ries van Twisk wrote: > >On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> On Tuesday 23 March 2010, Ries van Twisk wrote: > >>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 1:41 AM, a...@conceptmachinery.com wrote: > >> Hi > >> I bought Rhino and importantly it is only 3D surface modeling > >> software > >> where nurbs is a part. NURBS let you grab point and drag it and it > >> change > >> whole surface. It is interesting option. > >>> > >>> Do you guys use any of the Parametric plugins for Rhino? > >>> Honestly I don't see why a non parametric 3D modeler is any useful in > >>> the industry > >>> where you need to make more then just a part, I am not talking about > >>> people doing this for a hobby or the one-offs > >> > >> And that's me. No way in hell can I justify the cost of something > >> like > >> rhino, for one quick piece of wood or metal. I could easily empty > >> the SS > >> replenished bank account if I bought all the stuff that has been > >> mentioned > >> here. > > > >in that case the sort of business you work on doesn't even require it, > >no worries, it's really normal to use simple CAD/CAM pages. > >I see to much people buying autocad, while they also could > >have been buying qCAD or any other sub 100USD 2D CAD package. > >they Just pay a very file conversion package :) > > > >Ries > > > I have had qCAD's freebie installed several times, but I have yet to see it > has an output format I can use or convert to use. Probably no mistake... > > Thanks Ries. > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > > "Well hello there Charlie Brown, you blockhead." > -- Lucy Van Pelt > > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Access to Gcode
A common ATmega8, e.g. in an Arduino board, is regularly used for gcode interpretation on RepRaps and Makerbots. They can even load gcode from SD cards. However, I don't know if they are able to interpret [ ] or <> expressions, or even loops. Still, using axis as a gui might be beneficial, as if has visual representation of toolpaths. If there were some kind of synchronization protocol , you could use some simulator HAL, and have position in machine and axis corresponding. a blog entry i saw a while ago also covers autonomous cnc. http://hackaday.com/2010/03/24/arm-based-cnc-mill-needs-no-computer/ greetings, Bernhard Kubicek On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote: > Riley Porter wrote: > > Thanks for the clarity. So in tutorials that I have watched / read how > to. > > I see AXIS load a DXF file then it passes gcode to emc which spits out > step > > dir? > > > AXIS has the ability to run "filters" while loading files, so if someone > has a DXF to G-code converter, that can be run as a filter. AXIS will > then load the G-code file produced by the filter. > > What "part" is creating the gcode from cad files? Is this a function of > > AXIS? Again sorry if this is a lame question. > > > External programs only. AXIS is just a GUI that controls and displays > status of the interpreter and motion controller (and some other parts) > of EMC2. > > You might want to take a look at saicanon - the standalone interpreter. > G-code is actually a lot more complex than you think. An ATMEGA or > XMega can generate steps as necessary (though even that isn't as simple > as it sounds), but the G-code interpreter has to deal with loops, > conditionals, variables, machine control (tool changes, coolant ...), > machine state, etc. The way EMC2 does all this is to have the high > level interpreter translate to an intermediate state, called "canon" > (the canonical machine commands or similar). Those calls are the motion > primitives needed after all variable and equation evaluation. (G-code > has many floating point math functions, in case you didn't know :) ) > > You might want to make a motion and IO controller rather than a g-code > interpreter. The motion commands should be sent from the task > controller (which includes the interpreter) to the motion and IO > controllers via NML. NML can use a serial transport, but I'm not sure > if that code has been maintained (or even included with EMC2 - it was > part of the original rcslib). > > - Steve > > > > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Access to Gcode
basically, they are called on command line level, and output some gcode on the standard output stream, if I understand correctly. There is also a second idea of having a filter menu, that gives calls individual programs with one parameter, i.e. the file name of the currently opened gcode, and expects some new gcode on the standard ouptut stream. But thats not in any default trunk. On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Riley Porter wrote: > Thanks for all the info! Great stuff. Stephen. You talked about Filters > able to be ran when loading files. I think this is a good place for me to > look into. Is there any documentation on writing filters? > > Thanks, > > Riley > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Stephen Wille Padnos >wrote: > > > Riley Porter wrote: > > > Thanks for the clarity. So in tutorials that I have watched / read how > > to. > > > I see AXIS load a DXF file then it passes gcode to emc which spits > out > > step > > > dir? > > > > > AXIS has the ability to run "filters" while loading files, so if someone > > has a DXF to G-code converter, that can be run as a filter. AXIS will > > then load the G-code file produced by the filter. > > > What "part" is creating the gcode from cad files? Is this a function > of > > > AXIS? Again sorry if this is a lame question. > > > > > External programs only. AXIS is just a GUI that controls and displays > > status of the interpreter and motion controller (and some other parts) > > of EMC2. > > > > You might want to take a look at saicanon - the standalone interpreter. > > G-code is actually a lot more complex than you think. An ATMEGA or > > XMega can generate steps as necessary (though even that isn't as simple > > as it sounds), but the G-code interpreter has to deal with loops, > > conditionals, variables, machine control (tool changes, coolant ...), > > machine state, etc. The way EMC2 does all this is to have the high > > level interpreter translate to an intermediate state, called "canon" > > (the canonical machine commands or similar). Those calls are the motion > > primitives needed after all variable and equation evaluation. (G-code > > has many floating point math functions, in case you didn't know :) ) > > > > You might want to make a motion and IO controller rather than a g-code > > interpreter. The motion commands should be sent from the task > > controller (which includes the interpreter) to the motion and IO > > controllers via NML. NML can use a serial transport, but I'm not sure > > if that code has been maintained (or even included with EMC2 - it was > > part of the original rcslib). > > > > - Steve > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] C Style Extensions for GCode
it is quite obvious that a good incooporation to emc would be:
1) give them a specific file extenions eg : .cgc
2) have your filter expect the code from standard input e.g. std:cin
3) use the Filter section in theconfig/devicename.ini to form a connection
between your extension and the converter
4) Open the files directly in axis.
greetings,
Bernhard Kubicek
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Sven Wesley wrote:
> Me like!
>
>
>
> 2010/4/7 Flying Electron Inc
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I wrote a python extension for axis that allows C language style
> extensions
> > to the GCode if anyone wants to give it a try.
> >
> > http://tsemsb.blogspot.com/2010/04/cgcc-gcode-with-c-constructs.html
> >
> > It allows you to write code like this:
> >
> > // Constants
> > const float X_Holes = 10;
> > const float Y_Holes = 10;
> >
> > // Loop
> > for (float y = 0; y < Y_Holes; y++) {
> >for (float x = 0; x < X_Holes; x++) {
> >if (x != y) {
> >G00 Z1
> >G00 X[x] Y[y]
> >G01 Z0 F1
> >G00 Z1
> >}
> >}
> > }
> >
> > and it gets translated into regular GCode with o-words.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
>
> --
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> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
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>
--
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Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
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Re: [Emc-users] C Style Extensions for GCode
I don't know on which "magic" system you work, but on my linux nearly everything runs on file extension :) It enables a lot of usefull features, e.g. the filtering in emc. On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Kent A. Reed wrote: > > > > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 10:04:27 +0200 > > From: Bernhard Kubicek > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] C Style Extensions for GCode > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > > > it is quite obvious that a good incooporation to emc would be: > > 1) give them a specific file extenions eg : .cgc > > 2) have your filter expect the code from standard input e.g. std:cin > > 3) use the Filter section in theconfig/devicename.ini to form a > connection > > between your extension and the converter > > 4) Open the files directly in axis. > > > > greetings, > > Bernhard Kubicek > > > Gentle persons: > > These are sensible suggestions, but I have a caveat regarding 1). > > Use magic file extensions if you must but please don't make them > mandatory. That's a "convenience" that has driven me mad in the M$ world. > > Regards, > Kent > > > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Homming error
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Alex Joni wrote: > >> You asked for a way to test your axis, and got 3 solutions: > > > > Maybe that is the problem. I didn't ask for solution. (My english is not > > so good so maybe I ask by mystake.) > > Ok, I didn't understand that like that. > > > I propose solution. The software solution to just show message with home > > difference when homing is done. (just need something like "in basic" > > Print "X offset ",current_machine_position - machine_home_position just > > before setting home position before after homing axis. (of course for > > each axis when homed) > > well, you are proposing to make a change to the software so it detects a > fault of your machine. > I am not sure if anyone else wants this feature, and you surely understand > we can't incorporate all features possible. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep > > Otoh, the change you want implies about 2-3h worth of digging + coding, and > some additional testing. > Maybe someone who is interested in this will spend that time on the > feature. > Then you can either get a patch (which you apply on your local sources), or > it gets incorporated into emc2 if enough people want it. > > > > >> * use the home switch for probing > >> > > How to do that if home is limit too? > > You can have a special M-code called which unhooks the home limit > connection, so you can do the probe, then (using another m-code) reconnect > it again. > > > > As I remember it's posted on linuxcnc forum and emc-developers group. > > And when I do git pull I got that filter menu to work. few day's lather > > the filter menu dissapear. bkubicek provided zip.file as response all is > > on the linux cnc forum. *http://tinyurl.com/y9u5yoh > > *After patch then menu again works but next git pull kill that. > >> If you want to help resolving such an issue, it really helps to provide > >> further information (then it gets sorted faster): > >> * when the original patch was added, > >> * when it stopped working, > >> * a patch that fixes the issue (either patch or a pull address from your > >> repo where it's fixed). > >> > > It's all posted at *http://tinyurl.com/y9u5yoh > > *Seem's bad idea to have two locations for that. I like forum but the > > response is low. > > That's because the forum is not a supported way to reach emc2 developers. > A lot of people wanted to have the forums, so we set it up, but that > doesn't > mean you'll get usefull or valid responses on the forum. > Reading that page (not much time I can spend on it) I don't see a > definitive > answer. > I was looking for: > * currently the filter in emc2 is broken, this is the patch to make it work > again > Instead there is some discussion between you (I guess) and bkubicek, which > ends at: > "There is now a partially working implementation for filtering." > That doesn't tell me the status.. partially working doesn't sound like it > should be integrated in emc2 yet. > There is a zip file attached containing some sources, but without a proper > description and without copyright and license information (until it has > proper licensing we surely can't think about integrating it into emc2). > > First of all, I am currently 100% ok with the way emc development is handled. For the filtering, there are two things: )First, the patches in axis. I proposed this filtering menu. The idea is to have external programs, aka filters, that expect a gcode filename as first command line parameter. These filters then can do whatever they want, but should output useable gcode in their output stream. So clicking Menu->File->Filter->someprogramname calls "someprogramname currentlyopendgcode.ngc" and replaces the currently opened gcode by that. One filter e.g. could be: invertxcoordinates.sh or scale, or whatever. I proposed this feature, and with my very limited knowledge of python and tcl made a menu. Eppler did some nice reprogramming of the filtering, and made the integration in axis. However, at least on my Ubuntu LTS system, it did not work right away. I had to change one line of code, so my old python could parse it. However there are two more or less unsolved problems: -reloading, or homeing reload the original gcode file, and the filtering is lost However, for me its is just a convenience thing to have the axis integration of the filtering. They obviously can also work on command line level. )Second, there is the filtering tools that I am creating. It started as bash scripts, then i moved to c++ as gcode interpretation became more complex. This can be called by this pachable axis menu, or by command line. Every now and then, if I have some spare time between my two jobs, and if I find an error, I do some reprogramming. One temporary snapshot I posted in the forum, so if somebody knowing to programm really wants to try it. I intend to create a git-repository, and some more info than you get by calling it without command line options. But I don't have much time. - So, altog
Re: [Emc-users] OT Arduino program question.
I don't do Arduino, I do ATMEGAs with GCC. Anyway, I would try to create a timer interrupt. Before starting the timer, it is possible to set a starting value for the counters. In the interrupt vector routine, one could set each time a new increasing/decreasing starting value, to create ramps. Or, alternatively, one could do something like this: uint16_t max=100,min=0,c; for (c=min;c Hello List; > > I have a simple machine that needs a single axis control to rotate a crank > shaft 220 degrees then back. I plan to use a NEMA 34 stepper and a Gecko for > the motion. I will mount large XL pulleys on the crank and use about a 5:1 > reduction ratio. > > Limit at one end of the stroke home at the other. > > I want to use an Arduino to run the thing, but I have not found much info in > the area of programing accell curves for the step/dir outputs. > > I need to program ramp to max, move xxx steps, ramp down to a very slow speed > for the last 30 degrees, stop and dwell then ramp to max back to home and > stop. > > I have been searching the Arduino forms and most examples are for users > actually trying to control the phase outputs of drives they have built on > "shields". Also these users believe in "Instant acceleration" they just start > a pulse stream with no ramp up. Floppy drive steppers turning tape flags can > kinda get away with that, but I'm driving a load on a Nema 34 and I don't > want to pound the crap out of the works. > > My plan goes like this: > > Digital Inputs: > > a} Home switch > b} Limit switch > c} Jog forward > d} Jog reverse > e} Start > f} menu ? > > Digital Outputs > > a} Direction > b} step > > Analog Input - Potentiometer as feed override 0-100% > > Estop will be all hardware so its not an issue. > > I ask here because I know a few users have been toying with the Arduino for > use as a cheap micro PLC to work with EMC2. > > I'm just looking for a few lines of code that show how to insert accell / > decell ramps into the sketch. > > I will end up mounting a degree wheel on the crankshaft and adding or > subtracting steps as required for best use. > > Right now it is all done by hand with a lever. I expect running by hand is > faster - but slow and steady wins the race and operator ( that would be me) > fatigue is always a factor in actual production output. > > > And because Enquiring minds will want to know... The application is a 1964 > model (San Diego) Star Lube sizer. :) With all the extra bells and whistles > (almost), Base heater, Lube pressure system and bullet feeder. > > Maybe later I can build a mini Puma robot to sort them. > > Thanks all. > > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jog under PAUSE / tool cnange
Sorry, I did not read the complete thread. Maybe there is an easier solution to this problems: How about if emc would store the gcode position after a stop/emergency shutdown,i.e. the last completely finished move. And if there would be a "continue" button, where emc will replay the complete gcode in fast mode, without actually sending any moves. Only if the stored line is reached it will continue to send. Its a bit complex, with loops and stuff... It would be necessary to assume a save path to reach the position initial to the last complete move. If the user knows this, he can manually jog to a safe continue position where a direct move from will do no harm. Additional Idea: having enabled/disabled "breakpoints" in the gcode-view. Users can create/activate/disable/delete breakpoints in given lines (ignoring multiple moves per line). A stop of any kind automatically creates one disabled breakpoint, maybe with a additional label of the current date/time. This breakpoints settings are lost if a new gcode file is loaded by "open", if reload is pressed, the line breakpoints numbers are conserved (potentially usafe, if lines shift, but mostly usefull). greetings, bernhard.. On 5/17/2010 11:01 AM, Slavko Kocjancic wrote: > I like that description John. > I'm myself are aware of problems of realtime programming as I do that > daily with microcontrollers but other user's doesn't know that problems. > I know that editing/modifiing realtime software is pain. You make new > function and other one stops work as should. It's nasty. And my > program's are up to about 40 kilobyte of machine code and EMC2 is hughe. > > But! Yes there is But. It can be done! And it should be done! > Why? > Beacouse all workaround are so messy and dangerous that we should > minimise risk! > Is someone milling plastic and swarf catch the tool the user want to > pause and cleanup the tool as they know that this mees will burn part. > And how he can do that? > It can pause machine and can stop spindle(not in emc but there should be > some external controll too) Now the plastic can be wraped around tool > and the only way to get it out is to cut that from spindle as we can't > jog in out of the work. And cutting with sharp knife in sharp tool isn't > good idea. > > another one: > The user drill printed circuit board. > They broke drill bit and pause machine. How to replace it? In software > as is there are no way to do that. But has some messy workaround. as > stop program jog machine and resume last line and forgot that pisece of > broken bit is in that hole and restart just to broke another one. > > But if we PAUSE machine the motion queue can be cleaned! For resumming > we only need the last (paused) position and line where it happens to > resume on just right spot and fill up the motion queue with new data. > It can be done. > > And the last. The people (developers) makes great program for free. So > we can only to have wish what we want and they wil decide if thing wil > be done. That's true. If they don't need that stuff then this will be > done latter.(if at all) > Is someone of developer come to Slovenia then just drop the mail and I > wil fillup the fridge with beer. There this is the only payment method > with opensource and free program as EMC2 is. > > Slavko. > > > p.s. > Just one thing. What software (or machine) doesn't alow jog under pause? > > > -- > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Offset/Rotate Coordinates in Post Processing C-Gode (G92 etc. are not supported)
Hi Flo, Currently I am programming about 4h a day on a c++ tool to manipulate gcode. It will support to map two original points to different two other points, by uniform scaling, rotating, and shifting, with the option to scale by 1 (and fitting as good as possible). This would be usefull to mill double sided PCBs. You do the drilling of the top surface, note two opposing drill coordinates, isolate the top surface. Then you flip the PCB, and mount it somehow, measure the flipped drill locations, use my tool, and get a correctly shifted/rotated bottom layer isolation gcode. [Mounting in some fixture is either not accurate enough, or you loose board space due to mounting holes. At least to my trials. The workflow starting from the eagle .brd file is 100% automatized already by scripting eagle and visolate] The tool currently supports shifting, aligning to bounds (either g1 or g0, no arcs), mirroring, counter- and clockwise rotation. Free rotation around Z-Axis I am currently working on, it requires to insert new X and Y words, as a sole X word transforms into X and Y. Also, interpretation of variables and is performed, []-expressions currently not. IJ-Arcs are working already, however I still need to test with Rs. Absolute and Relative moves are supported, as are switches between units. However, the limit for the first version will be three axis. Maybe something like this could solve your problems? If you have an urgent need, I could mail you a pre-version. Most operations actually can be described by a multiplication of a matrix (2x2 in my xy case) and a shift. However, if you don't consider special cases, the gcode gets really messy if there are variables used. The tool will be GPLed. However I don't know when it will be finished. However its more in the region of a couple of days than weeks. At least I hope that, because the time that flows into it is subtracted from my sleeping time :) greetings, Bernhard from Vienna PS: For the long-term readers, yes it is an much improved version of the old filtering tool. I decided to do it properly. And I don't want to start any more discussions on the flame-bait filtering menu.. On 7/22/2010 12:28 AM, Florian Rist wrote: > Hi, > this is a off-topic question, but I'm sure someone here will be able to > gibe a hint: > > I'm trying to understand how to do the necessary coordinate > transformations to transform local coordinates from an off-setted an > rotated local coordinate system to the global coordinate system. > > Unfortunately I have to do these calculations sine the CNC does not > support G92 an the related commands. > > I have the x, y, z offset and the A, B, C rotation of the local > coordinate system, but I'm not sure how to rest these A, B, C angels. I > tried to interpret them as roll, pitch, yaw as well as as simple > rotations around the x, y, z-aces but non of my approaches seems to work. > > Can someone explain what A, B, C angles usually indicate in CAM? Does > someone have the transformation matrix ready for that kind of problem? > Does anyone have any suggestion where to find good explanation on the > various kinds to express a rotation/direction in space an how they are > used in CAM usually? > > See you > Flo > -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Grecode
Dear List! grecode is a small command line tool, which you might or might not find useful. It should be able to scale gcode, mirror, rotate, align, and do some other nice things. It can be downloaded at: http://code.google.com/p/grecode/ It is GPLed v3 C++ software, and if you find any problems, please report them in the issue tracker, maybe with some example gcode. Or, just change the code yourself and tell me. There are quite some limitations, and any additional coding work would be very nice :) Also, please be extra careful with the outputed gcode, it might contain errors. very nice greetings, Bernhard -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Code interpretation in EMC
Hi! As far as I understand from the other replies, EMC should not be the software that solves these problems. However, as I develop on a gcode manipulating software, maybe this would be better suited. http://code.google.com/p/grecode/ All the gcodes are read to memory, and it would be relatively little work to find these concave corners, and do automatic joining of line segments, especially near the corners. However, I am a bit short on time currently to implement this. If you know/want to learn C++, and like hacking a bit, maybe my code could be a nice starting point. Btw, I had similar problems with radius compensation, while hacking the gears-gcode-creator at http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1963 very nice greetings, bernhard On 8/19/2010 2:54 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > Hello, guys! > > I have been running my waterjet cutting machine with EMC for a while > now (currently that is version 2.4.3.1) and I have gathered few > questions about the way, how EMC interprets the g-code. > > The main issue is that sometimes I receive this error message: > "Arc move in concave corner cannot be reached by the tool without gouging" > > It also indicates the number of the line in the g-code, which is near > the one, causing error. So I found that in the following piece of code > the G3 move was the problem: > G1 X+115.175 Y+245.013 > G3 X+118.786 Y+245.339 I+1.484 J+3.720 > G1 X+120.236 Y+246.394 > > I have G41/G42 tool diameter compensation commands included as well as > there is M6 T1 command in the beginning of the file and in the tool > table I have saved the size of the water jet as a tool number one, so > that EMC compensates the kerf size. The confusion is caused by the > fact that saved diameter is 1.1 mm and in the code above we can see > that radius of the G3 move is larger than half of the tool's diameter, > which has to be offsetted. > > > I just received also this error message: > "Straight feed in concave corner cannot be reached by the tool without > gouging" > It indicated that the error is around line 24, so here is the part of the > code: > G1 X+167.031 Y+46.741 > G1 X+167.643 Y+46.983 > G1 X+168.223 Y+47.330 > G1 X+168.364 Y+47.433 > G1 X+168.364 Y+23.726<--line24 > G1 X+147.289 Y+23.726 > G1 X+147.289 Y+54.982 > > The code consists of very small G1 moves. Unfortunately the CAD > drawing consisted almost only of splines, which are not very welcome > by my CAM application, so it converted the splines in very small > straight segments. That is why that file consists of 16344 lines, so I > do not see an option of manual correction of the code. > > Can anyone explain, what is that EMC does not like about the g-code > and what can I do to correct it? > > Thank You in advance! > > Viesturs > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by > > Make an app they can't live without > Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My second try :)
maybe you might find the links interesting... http://metalab.at/wiki/PCB_CNC http://geilomat.soup.io/ the scripting of eagle and visolate are still unpublished, but if you want to have them no problem.. greetings, bernhard On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Fox Mulder wrote: > Here is my second try to mill a test layout with my selfmade cnc. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUuqJ32-q7s > > After the milling finished and i removed the dust i saw that i made a > little mistake. I milled a bit too deep and therefore the tracks got > nearly milled away. :( > I calculated the milling depth and width correct but it seems that the > real width is a bit wider than in theory. So i think i have to lower the > depth a bit to get my wanted width. > > At the end of the video i inserted a picture of the finished pcb. > > Next thing for me is to do a few try&error mills with different depths > to find the correct one for my setup. :) > > Ciao, > Rainer > > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
