Re: [Emc-users] Axis direction

[Groups]

Hi,

I’m fairly sure that on a CNC machine the z-axis is the axis parallel to the 
spindle. 
On a CNC surface grinder, the Z axis is what you would expect to be the Y axis. 

But in reality you can name them however you like. 

Cheers 

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 7 Feb 2024, at 5:29 am, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> 
> It is pretty easy to see WHY the z-axis is set up the way it is on a lath 
> and a mill and why it is different.   You need a well defined “zero”.  On a 
> mill, the machine's “zero" is the table and one a mill it is the chuck.   A 
> lathe has not other well define place on the machine, the tailstock moves.
> 
> The after defining the zero point you use the “natural” convention the number 
> get bigger if you go to the right or up.
> 
> This is the normal way engineers thing about corodrnttes.  you ask thee 
> questions IN ORDER
> 1) where is the origin?
> 2) which way does “Z” point
> 3) then apply the right hand rules for X and Y
> 
> It’s not just machine tools that do this but everyone from physic research to 
> aircraft manufacturing.  And you do have to answer those question in order.
> 
> #2 is really arbitrary but from 8th grade algebra on, we are used to drawing 
> graphs with the numbers getting bigger as you go up or right and with the 
> zero point inthe lower left
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 6, 2024, at 6:06 AM, gene heskett  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2/6/24 07:54, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
>>> Ray Henry's story is a Murphy's Law occurrence. I once had a car with a
>>> starter problem. I changed the starter three or four times in quick
>>> succession. I could not figure out why so I purchased two, put one in the
>>> trunk along with tools. I never had to use it.
>> Chuckle. BTDT...Still do at times. Works better than average. But the way 
>> Ray worded it caught me off guard and I literally shook myself laughing for 
>> quite a spell. I spent some time in Iron Mountain MI, about a long hour from 
>> Ray's place, so I visited a couple times while modifying the tv station 
>> there for digital.
>> 
>> If you ever come across any more of those teeny ball screws like you sold me 
>> around 20 years back I've got a place to put them.
>> 
>> Take care & stay well, Stuart.
>> 
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>> - Louis D. Brandeis
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[Groups]

Hi John,
Not really. That $100 is for the pendant only. The 3 axis controller is around 
$550. 

A lot of AliExpress sellers now add multiple products to a single listing. They 
have a relatively cheap item there that makes the item you are after appear 
cheap. 

That said you can get a similar 2 axis Chinese controller for about 1/3 that 
price. 

Cheers 

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 6 Aug 2023, at 5:17 am, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> On 8/5/23 14:45, Martin Dobbins wrote:
>> It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese 
>> controller, and what motion control system.
>> Martin
>> 
>> From: John Dammeyer
>> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM
>> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
>> My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for 
>> ESTOP was inverted.  ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you 
>> wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured 
>> with the ESTOP.
>> But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 axis 
>> system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's true 
>> for MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches are 
>> needed too.
>> The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that 
>> they don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat 
>> DB200.  I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone 
>> for my DB-200 which looks a lot like this one.
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F83lxxjam0yj71.jpg=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=l04m1ookT8TmrWx%2F8azPP2X2qqAyxgSJbezUEI7EZJM%3D=0
>> For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller.
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F1005005195839565.html=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=O3eRaBFYdAVqxPxwCTL9JCUiFaYmhWTcGtwJKa%2BJFT4%3D=0
>> But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS.
>> John
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM
>>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
>>> 
>>> I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs.  These are
>>> programmable processors that are separate from the CPU.  So you can get
>>> very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux.
>>> 
>>> However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL
>>> unit for the PRUs.  I don�t know if LinuxCNC has this or not.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
 
 On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users
  wrote:
> 
> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone
> black.  I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking
> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black?  Is there any
> way to improve results.
 
 I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended
 to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics
 performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues.
 
 You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the
 latency with that kernel is better.
 
 --
 atp
 "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
 designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
 lunatics."
 � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

[Groups]

Hi John,

PathPilot has a lot of similarities with Mach3. John Prentice had quite 
a hand in the interface. I'd been using the Mach3 Aqua screenset and I 
found the transition seemless.


https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5.0;attach=14352

I really like PathPilot as it has all the functions I want built in and 
they are rock solid. All their probing wizards work without issue. And 
the tool offset setting from a tool height setter works really well.


One of the other reasons is that the Fusion 360 post processor supports 
probing


Here is the thread of my conversion. It may have some helpful 
information if you plan to do something similar.


https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/429214-pathpilot-mesa-7i92h-geckodrive-g540.html

There is also this forum

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot/45846-pathpilot-7i92-g540-hal-file

Cheers,


Peter


On 8/09/2022 5:51 am, John Dammeyer wrote:

 From that screen in the link it does look like PP has the same sort of 
graphical setup screens for simple operations that made MACH 3 so easy to run.

I've yet to hear back from the Acorn supporter on how it's done there.

The NativeCAM sounds like a good idea but it might not work on all 
installations and may have the same problem my probe software has.  At least 
I've not figured out how to fix it without buying a bigger screen. Assuming my 
video card could even handle the wider screen.

Attached is our standard user interface with G-Code loaded.  Since I'm limited 
on attachment size I'll follow up with another posting that shows the problem.  
But notice this isn't a wide 1080P type wide screen monitor.

John







-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
Sent: September-07-22 12:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC


And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or
clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must
one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?

Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
that shows how to do this?



Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
the code to my milling machine.

I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for
students taking PathPilot classes.

The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to
program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer

The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller


--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

[Groups]

John,

Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3 
using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface 
closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.


Cheers,

Peter

On 7/09/2022 3:37 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:



-Original Message-
From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: September-06-22 8:50 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 18:25:11 -0700

A 7I96S is a much closer match to an Acorn (and has more
basic I/O and more expandability) for $149


A 7I95 allows 6 axis of encoder feedback (not something the Acorn can do)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

Thanks Peter,
I like that price better!
We're really back to the same issue which is ease of use.

Search for and ask for the programs that do what wizards do in MACH and what it 
looks like Acorn can do with graphical menu choices.  Or find a bunch of 
programs, run them from the command line to generate the G-Code.

I'll ask a few of the pro-Acorn users how they do certain things.  I know how 
to do them in MACH using a wizard.   In LinuxCNC I'll write the G-Code myself 
or use my CAD/CAM software.  Or just use the MDI to run the flycutter across a 
casting a few times.

But most of the people who are somewhat 'anti-LinuxCNC' are not.  Personally I 
think that's a problem.

John






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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[Groups]

It might be worth adding a slower de-acceleration value for the spindle as a 
heavier tool may trip the servo. 
Cheers 
Peter 

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 16 Jul 2020, at 7:48 am, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> Progress.  Bergerda AC Servo driving the Spindle with a V belt still but at 
> least driving it.  MESA 7i92H PWM,  small module from China for 0V-10V.   
> S1000, F5 and M3 and M5 commands to start and stop.
> 
> https://youtu.be/VvXMoC917O0
> 
> Next step somehow incorporate an encoder onto the spindle to close the loop 
> and the secondary break out board so I can use step/dir instead.
> 
> Then cast some new pulley blanks and change to toothed belt.  But for now 
> it's so much quieter than the 2HP single phase motor.
> 
> John Dammeyer
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[Groups]

Hi John,

Just bare-metal program it then with GCC. 
You can use the onboard boot loader to program it. 

If you want to connect a debugger you will have to hack out the SWD JTAG lines. 


Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 9 Jun 2020, at 12:31 pm, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> 
> THose parts, even the $2.80 development board are gross overkill for an ELS
> system.   They have hardware quadrature counting up to a few MHz. and an
> available real-time OS if you want.real
> 
> One compromise that I think really is worth making is to look at JLPSB's
> short list is "basic" components.  They will solder any of those to a PCB
> for free, just the cost of the part with some parts under a penny each.
> Not having tomess with reflow oven, microscopes and hot is worth being
> restricted to a short (800 item) list of parts.
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
>>> 
>>> f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
>>> software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
>>> usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
>>> GCC and Eclipse.
>> 
>> When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I
>> started using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module, CAN, even
>> Barrel Shifter.  However, I bought into the idea that it should work on an
>> easy and free development environment.  So we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR
>> counting for the spindle because I chose the 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a
>> couple of people who contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.
>> 
>> So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell clients
>> and students.
>> 1. Define the project and what you want it to do.
>> 2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will satisfy
>> those needs.
>> 
>> Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is state
>> I want to build  this project and it has to use an Arduino because it's
>> really popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do it but it's really
>> popular and everyone uses it.
>> 
>> That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move
>> gravel.  And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have been sold
>> than any other.  So it must be the right truck.
>> 
>> Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of
>> gravel to 1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10 tons per trip.
>> But really so many people can drive a half ton truck and you don't need a
>> special license or all that extra insurance.  And gravel is gravel right?
>> 
>> So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate
>> floating point units tightly coupled with shared memory so that I can have
>> real time motion on one and trajectory planning on the other then maybe an
>> 8bit Arduino isn't quite there.  Nor are the ST processors that I've looked
>> at.
>> 
>> In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use the
>> Arduino environment.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
 processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair
 amount of memory.  And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of
>> support
 for using these as AC Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at
>> ELS
 replacements for my PIC18F series board and potentially that ELS-MILL
>> unit
 which in many ways would be more like a smart pendent.
 
 https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D
 
 It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter
>> a
 SPI bus device.
 
 I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find
>> more
 than 5 minutes to play with it.
 
 John Dammeyer
 
 
 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Chris Albertson
>>> Redondo Beach, California
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
> -- 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[Groups]

Hi John,

Have a look at the Teensy 4.1. 
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy-4-1-released/
600Mhz Cortex-M7. In a long dip form factor. Arduino development compatible for 
US$27

https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html

Cheers. 

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 9 Jun 2020, at 9:16 am, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
>> 
>> f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
>> software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
>> usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
>> GCC and Eclipse.
> 
> When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I started 
> using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module, CAN, even Barrel 
> Shifter.  However, I bought into the idea that it should work on an easy and 
> free development environment.  So we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR counting 
> for the spindle because I chose the 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a couple of 
> people who contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.
> 
> So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell clients and 
> students.  
> 1. Define the project and what you want it to do.  
> 2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will satisfy 
> those needs.
> 
> Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is state I 
> want to build  this project and it has to use an Arduino because it's really 
> popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do it but it's really popular and 
> everyone uses it.
> 
> That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move gravel. 
>  And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have been sold than any 
> other.  So it must be the right truck.  
> 
> Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of gravel 
> to 1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10 tons per trip.  But really 
> so many people can drive a half ton truck and you don't need a special 
> license or all that extra insurance.  And gravel is gravel right?
> 
> So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate floating 
> point units tightly coupled with shared memory so that I can have real time 
> motion on one and trajectory planning on the other then maybe an 8bit Arduino 
> isn't quite there.  Nor are the ST processors that I've looked at.  
> 
> In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use the 
> Arduino environment. 
> 
> John
> 
> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
>>> processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair
>>> amount of memory.  And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of support
>>> for using these as AC Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at ELS
>>> replacements for my PIC18F series board and potentially that ELS-MILL unit
>>> which in many ways would be more like a smart pendent.
>>> 
>>> https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D
>>> 
>>> It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter a
>>> SPI bus device.
>>> 
>>> I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find more
>>> than 5 minutes to play with it.
>>> 
>>> John Dammeyer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Chris Albertson
>> Redondo Beach, California
>> 
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ

[Groups]

Hi John,

Mach3 definitely has a configuration setting to choose between “Exact Stop” and 
Constant Velocity “ that does what you are describing. 

Cheers 

Peter 

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 26 Sep 2019, at 4:47 pm, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> I don't believe there are any start/stops/accel/deccel.  Watching the mill do 
> the PathPilot arc compared to the Radius Arc or the IJ arc the motion didn't 
> 'feel' any different.  Probably because the system isn't programmed for exact 
> stop mode.  
> 
> Under MACH3, and I suspect LinuxCNC is the same, you can tell the system to 
> stop between each move or interpolate between moves to reduce the amount of 
> start/stop behaviours.  
> 
> Say you first went in the X and then in the Y direction at say 5 IPM.  In 
> exact stop mode the X axis would stop and then the Y axis would start.  But 
> using the interpolation mode the goal is to maintain the same SFM so that 
> square corner really becomes an arc maintained at 5 IPM.  Now operation is 
> smoother, if it's a router there is no burning of the wood, if a mill, no 
> melting of aluminium onto the tool bit.
> 
> So I suspect the lengths of the straight segments are such that the resultant 
> interpolation creates the equivalent of the arc.  Maybe the path pilot 
> programmer felt this would create a more symmetrical spiral.   As I pointed 
> out earlier when you look at the LinuxCNC screen grab you can see that the 
> overall curves aren't evenly spiralling out.
> 
> So maybe that's why?
> 
> John
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Brent Loschen [mailto:brent.losc...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: September-25-19 10:36 PM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ
>> 
>> 
>> �This entire thread has been very interesting to me.� I've learned a
>> lot about arc moves and creating spirals, but I'm curious why the large
>> number of short G1 moves (generated by PathPilot) is "better" than fewer
>> G2/G3 moves?� Seems like a nearly constant feedrate/chipload (similar to
>> adaptive clearing) would be better than thousands of
>> start/stops/accel/decel - what am I missing?
>> 
>> Brent
>> 
>>> On 9/24/2019 2:45 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:
>>> I decided to see what Tormach generates with their conversational
>> programming
>>> in PathPilot (LinuxCNC pretty face). I don't recall the original parameters 
>>> so
>>> I requested a circular pocket, 0.5 deep, 1.0 diameter, at 0,0, 0.5 DoC,
>>> 1/4-inch cutter (what was in the spindle). It spirals down in a 1/2 pocket 
>>> to
>>> full depth and then does a spiral out. I'm happy to try different 
>>> parameters.
>>> (Mill - Circular Pocket G-code generated: Tue Sep 24 16:36:41 2019 )
>> ... cut ...
>>> 
>>> (Spiral)
>>> F 15.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
>>> G1 X 0.1250 Y 0.
>>> F 15.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
>>> G1 X 0.1252 Y 0.0110
>>> F 15.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
>>> G1 X 0.1245 Y 0.0219
>>> F 15.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
>>> G1 X 0.1228 Y 0.0329
>>> F 15.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
>>> G1 X 0.1201 Y 0.0437
>>> ... cut ...
>>> (- End of Circular Pocket -)
>>> 
>>> M30 (End of Program)
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Groups]

The Teensy3.1 is under $20
Cheers

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 23 Feb 2017, at 2:26 pm, Dave Cole  wrote:
> 
>> On 2/22/2017 12:36 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> Now that ARM based boards are available for under $5 I've completely
>> moved away from AVR.
> 
> I'm missing something.
> 
> Where can you buy ARM based boards for under $5.00?  Or did you mean $50 ?
> 
> The Arduino Zero is $54 -$40 and the Neutrino, the kickstarter clone of 
> the Zero is $19 if you can buy one.
> Both boards also work with the Atmel ICE as well apparently.
> 
> Dave
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[groups]

That pipe is commonly known as the down tube. :)

It runs from the bottom bracket to the bottom of the head tube.

The others tubes are called;
Head tube, it holds the head set for the steerer tube
Seat tube, runs down from the seat post to the bottom bracket
Top tube, runs horizontally between the head tube and the top of the 
seat tube
seat stays, run from the rear dropout (hold the axle) to the top of the 
seat tube
Rear stays, run from the rear dropout (hold the axle) to the bottom 
bracket

I used to fit the pump so it sat alongside the left seat stay running 
from the rear axle to the top of the seat tube. If you got the right 
size pump it would wedge in nicely with out any clips.

Cheers,

Peter


On 2016-04-22 12:05, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 21 April 2016 18:59:36 andy pugh wrote:
> 
>> On 21 April 2016 at 23:45, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> > Are there such beasts available, perhaps in a .750" or 20mm bore?
>> > What I've found didn't have the stroke.
>> 
>> Bicycle pump? :-)
> 
> I haven't seen one of those in 50 years on this side of the pond. :(
> I assume you are refering to the pumps that used to live in clips on 
> one
> of the connector pipes from the crank hub to the steering head?
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
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