Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-31 Thread andy pugh 
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 at 00:26, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> The little $2 parts can be used with Arduino IDE. I bet you already
> know how to do that.

My brief researches indicated that this wasn't the case, but that was
looking at the data sheets for:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/9092862/
Which suggested a number of IDEs and also stated that it could only be
programmed with Windows.

Can the boards support a 2.5Mb serial connection? If they could, then
in conjunction with existing code from the STMBL project they could
easily be configured as plug-and-play Smart-Serial devices.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-28 Thread Chris Albertson 
On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 8:26 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 27 October 2018 19:23:58 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, I've never knowingly touched an arduino, so I know pretty close to
> zip about them.  The speed specs have never impressed me. OTOH, one per
> axis could probably get the job done.
>


An actual Arduino is almost obsolete.   The $2.25 STM part I linked to can
run circles aroubd it at 1/8th the cost and space.
They are 32 bit instructions and the chip runs at one asembly language
instruction per clock cycle ad this one goes abut abuot 80MHz.  The run the
ARM instruction set.

But as slow asthe Arduino is almost all 3D printer use it as their
controller.  A 3D printer has have 4 axis (x, y, z, and e.  where "e" is
the expruder) and thse little printer move much faster then any mill.  And
there is a Arnuino that reads the g-code and pushed the stepper motors.
 But some are now moving on to STM32 ARM chips.  They are easier to use.

But in any case one can certainly red g-code and do software stepping on 4
axis and make the machine move at 240 inches persecond using this littel
Arduino as a machine controller but I would not recommend it for new designs


>
> The first program I ever wrote, in assembly on an rca cosmac board had a
> machine cycle of 8 cycles of a 1.79 MHz clock.


I remember that chip.  The new systems are dramatically easier to program.
I got into programming fist in IBM mainframe computers like the s/360 and
then last foubd out about micocomputers at about the time the z80 came out
inthe late 1970's

The Arduino IDE wa designed so that non-programers, childrem and artest
could make computer controlled devices.  It is purposly set up to by very
easy to use.  It is a good entry point and works for manythings but you can
do more it you move up the ladder a step and use a development system that
suports a real-time OS.


>
> > But you do get better use of them using  ARM's MBED IDC which is only
> > a baby step above Arduino.
>
> I'm not sure how one would go about synching a rack of arduino's taking
> orders from LCNC, as all the precision is in linuxcnc.


The way they do it is place the PID velocity loop on the micro controller
and then update the commaned speed at what we call the servo rate.  The
micro sends positionand volocuty data back at the sae rate.  The position
pid loop is in a central controller.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-28 Thread Peter C. Wallace 

On Sat, 27 Oct 2018, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:40:48 -0400
From: Gene Heskett 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: Peter C. Wallace 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

On Friday 26 October 2018 23:26:38 Peter C. Wallace wrote:


On Fri, 26 Oct 2018, Gene Heskett wrote:

Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 21:17:29 -0400
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

Greetings all;

I just hooked up a couple cables to the BOB on a 5i25's p2
connector. But gpio 31-32-33-34-35 apparently have no pullup.I
searched thru the hal file looking for gpio.013, which is the pin
all three switches formerly shared and is wired to p3-10.  Those
pins have a pullup, to about 4.85 volts.


All I/O pins on P2 and P3 have 3.3K pullups


Thanks Peter. I think its time I bought/made a bigger box, and moved both
bobs out to where I can access them easier. This ones a mess, with an
ice cube relay on its lid controlling a vacuum cleaner and other
accessories that go with adding a 4th axis.  Those heavy cables from/to
the socket the vac is plugged into make it difficult to pull the lid and
do things.  There is stepdown boards, and charge pump buckets etc in it
that aren't even mounted solid. Time to make a bigger box and put both
bobs in it. Just gotta get my eyes usable again. Or say to hell with the
5i25 and get a lash-up like I wound up with the on the Sheldon, a 7i90HD
and 3 7i42TA's. The 7i42TA's make that a very convenient lash-up to wire
up.


You might consider something newer like a 7I76E (this has 5 Axis of 10 MHZ 
capable step/dir, and spindle encoder, 0 to 10V analog spindle control

and 48 12/24V digital I/O: 16 outputs and 32 inputs)



That brings up the question: Is the motherboard parport fast enough to
talk to the 7i90HD with the parport firmware or do I need to get a
faster epp parport card too? Its a bigger Dell, dual core intel cpu.



Motherboard EPP ports are usually fine


The spi port on the pi is faster, but I've not found an spi card for x86
machinery yet. Not to mention that cable from the pi to the 7i90 is only
an inch long. Writes at 42 megabaud, reads at 25 megabaud, in 32 bit
packets. The 26 pin cables in this build are now 4 feet long, likely not
too good for error free data, although I haven't noted a problem from
that, yet. But either the bigger "bobs only" box, or the 7i90->3 7i42's
would cut that cable down to about 18", which can't hurt, and any gpio
on the 7i90HD can be input or output, something that greatly simplifies
the programming when one isn't limited to 5 inputs per bob.


The EPP interface is much slower than the SPI and less noise suceptable
but nowdays Ethernet is probably a better option




I don't recall ever having to make a std parport pin an input an
input, but somethings out of whack. I'll take the box apart again
tomorrow to make sure that BOB is powered. I'm also considering
making a new, bigger box, and moving both bobs to it, this machine's
bob wiring has about exceeded the real estate dedicated to the bob
interface.  Needs more playroom.

In the meantime, if this rings a bell, with 5i25b users, speak up.

Thank you all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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nks
--
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-27 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 27 October 2018 19:23:58 Chris Albertson wrote:

> > I'm not allergic to that, other than the learning how to do it time
>
> The little $2 parts can be used with Arduino IDE. I bet you
> already know how to do that.
>
Sorry, I've never knowingly touched an arduino, so I know pretty close to 
zip about them.  The speed specs have never impressed me. OTOH, one per 
axis could probably get the job done.

The first program I ever wrote, in assembly on an rca cosmac board had a 
machine cycle of 8 cycles of a 1.79 MHz clock. When I had achieved the 
object, I added a flag I could see with a scope to measure its execution 
speed compared house synch back when we were using ntsc in 1978. 
Triggered to do the next frames processing on the leading edge of 
vertical drive, I was amazed to see that it had a new display time ready 
to dma into the display generator in the middle of line 21.  So it 
turned out that I could have used more time as that fields video display 
didn't start until line 100. 

There were at the time, two competing methods of staying sorta with the 
wall clock, so I played with that some, comparing drop frame with 
continuous, and found that drop frame actually gained time slowly, so I 
wound up with different timing that looked a little like leap year math, 
but stayed with wall time with under a second's error per day. Figured 
that was close enough for the girls I go with.  Far less long term error 
than the FCC allowed in the subcarrier frequency then, which was 10 hz a 
second.

> But you do get better use of them using  ARM's MBED IDC which is only
> a baby step above Arduino.

I'm not sure how one would go about synching a rack of arduino's taking 
orders from LCNC, as all the precision is in linuxcnc. I can drive at an 
angle based on degrees, to an accuracy of perhaps .001 degrees.  
Thats likely 100x more accurate than the angle between the bed, and the 
crossfeed at an arbitrary 90.00 degrees, when this machine was new in 
the 1950's. Uneven wear in the carriages V groove guiding it say its got 
to be worse than that today. But if it can be measured, linuxcnc can 
correct it, which I've spent about a month with a laser beam measureing 
it. Could have done it faster, but much of it was in finding a stable 
and repeatable reading.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-27 Thread Chris Albertson 
>
>
> I'm not allergic to that, other than the learning how to do it time
>

The little $2 parts can be used with Arduino IDE. I bet you already
know how to do that.

But you do get better use of them using  ARM's MBED IDC which is only a
baby step above Arduino.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-27 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 27 October 2018 18:52:37 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Some day I'll have to connect my favorite development board to EMC. 
> That way every time someone suggests something I can ask "Is it
> already built? Can it step a motor at 100K per second, can it read
> quadrature encoders at the MHz range and get you get it for under
> $2.50 with shipping included?"
>
> It is basically a nearly bare STM32 chip.  These have, of course the
> 32-bit uP but also a pile of on-i peripheral hardware like
> (1) hardware quadrature decoder (no code needed, it's hardware)
> (2) programmable pulse generators (again no code to generate pulses,
> it's done in hardware
> (3) SPI, i2C, USB and Serial interfaces
> (4) analog input and output
>
> You don't have to build it. and they will ship you 10 of them for
> $22.50. ebay.com/itm/STM32F103C8T6
> opment-Board-Module-For-Arduino-/162247218933>
>
> The trick is to push as much processing as you can outward.

I'm not allergic to that, other than the learning how to do it time
>
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 3:27 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Saturday 27 October 2018 17:30:42 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users 
wrote:
> > > PCIe to SPi 'demo board'.
> > > https://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail=256;74
> > >;110 Docs and drivers at the bottom of the page
> > >
> > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 1:43:43 AM MDT, Gene Heskett
> > >  wrote:
> > >
> > > The spi port on the pi is faster, but I've not found an spi card
> > > for x86 machinery yet.
> >
> > But you have to add the latency of the ethernet connection, adding
> > 10 to 50 u-secs of random lag. That cannot be tolerated by a stepper
> > motor if any speed is expected. And if the computer is good, the
> > stock parport can step a motor directly. You can tolerate more lag,
> > but that translates directly to how fast the motor can be driven
> > without any stalling. Eventually you're down to about 8" a minute,
> > and thats comparable to watching paint dry or grass grow. Just right
> > perhaps for precise EDM work which I have done on that slow machine.

Thanks Chris.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-27 Thread Chris Albertson 
Some day I'll have to connect my favorite development board to EMC.  That
way every time someone suggests something I can ask "Is it already built?
Can it step a motor at 100K per second, can it read quadrature encoders at
the MHz range and get you get it for under $2.50 with shipping included?"

It is basically a nearly bare STM32 chip.  These have, of course the 32-bit
uP but also a pile of on-i peripheral hardware like
(1) hardware quadrature decoder (no code needed, it's hardware)
(2) programmable pulse generators (again no code to generate pulses, it's
done in hardware
(3) SPI, i2C, USB and Serial interfaces
(4) analog input and output

You don't have to build it. and they will ship you 10 of them for $22.50.
ebay.com/itm/STM32F103C8T6


The trick is to push as much processing as you can outward.





On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 3:27 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 27 October 2018 17:30:42 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
>
> > PCIe to SPi 'demo board'.
> > https://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail=256;74;110
> >Docs and drivers at the bottom of the page
> >
> > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 1:43:43 AM MDT, Gene Heskett
> >  wrote:
> >
> > The spi port on the pi is faster, but I've not found an spi card for
> > x86 machinery yet.
>
> But you have to add the latency of the ethernet connection, adding 10 to
> 50 u-secs of random lag. That cannot be tolerated by a stepper motor if
> any speed is expected. And if the computer is good, the stock parport
> can step a motor directly. You can tolerate more lag, but that
> translates directly to how fast the motor can be driven without any
> stalling. Eventually you're down to about 8" a minute, and thats
> comparable to watching paint dry or grass grow. Just right perhaps for
> precise EDM work which I have done on that slow machine.
>
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-27 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 27 October 2018 17:30:42 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> PCIe to SPi 'demo board'.
> https://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail=256;74;110
>Docs and drivers at the bottom of the page
>
> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 1:43:43 AM MDT, Gene Heskett
>  wrote:
>
> The spi port on the pi is faster, but I've not found an spi card for
> x86 machinery yet.

But you have to add the latency of the ethernet connection, adding 10 to 
50 u-secs of random lag. That cannot be tolerated by a stepper motor if 
any speed is expected. And if the computer is good, the stock parport 
can step a motor directly. You can tolerate more lag, but that 
translates directly to how fast the motor can be driven without any 
stalling. Eventually you're down to about 8" a minute, and thats 
comparable to watching paint dry or grass grow. Just right perhaps for 
precise EDM work which I have done on that slow machine.

> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-27 Thread Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users 
PCIe to SPi 'demo board'. 
https://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail=256;74;110Docs and 
drivers at the bottom of the page

On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 1:43:43 AM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote: 

The spi port on the pi is faster, but I've not found an spi card for x86 
machinery yet.  
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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-27 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 26 October 2018 23:26:38 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Oct 2018, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 21:17:29 -0400
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's
> >
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I just hooked up a couple cables to the BOB on a 5i25's p2
> > connector. But gpio 31-32-33-34-35 apparently have no pullup.I
> > searched thru the hal file looking for gpio.013, which is the pin
> > all three switches formerly shared and is wired to p3-10.  Those
> > pins have a pullup, to about 4.85 volts.
>
> All I/O pins on P2 and P3 have 3.3K pullups

Thanks Peter. I think its time I bought/made a bigger box, and moved both 
bobs out to where I can access them easier. This ones a mess, with an 
ice cube relay on its lid controlling a vacuum cleaner and other 
accessories that go with adding a 4th axis.  Those heavy cables from/to 
the socket the vac is plugged into make it difficult to pull the lid and 
do things.  There is stepdown boards, and charge pump buckets etc in it 
that aren't even mounted solid. Time to make a bigger box and put both 
bobs in it. Just gotta get my eyes usable again. Or say to hell with the 
5i25 and get a lash-up like I wound up with the on the Sheldon, a 7i90HD 
and 3 7i42TA's. The 7i42TA's make that a very convenient lash-up to wire 
up.

That brings up the question: Is the motherboard parport fast enough to 
talk to the 7i90HD with the parport firmware or do I need to get a 
faster epp parport card too? Its a bigger Dell, dual core intel cpu.  

The spi port on the pi is faster, but I've not found an spi card for x86 
machinery yet. Not to mention that cable from the pi to the 7i90 is only 
an inch long. Writes at 42 megabaud, reads at 25 megabaud, in 32 bit 
packets. The 26 pin cables in this build are now 4 feet long, likely not 
too good for error free data, although I haven't noted a problem from 
that, yet. But either the bigger "bobs only" box, or the 7i90->3 7i42's 
would cut that cable down to about 18", which can't hurt, and any gpio 
on the 7i90HD can be input or output, something that greatly simplifies 
the programming when one isn't limited to 5 inputs per bob.

> > I don't recall ever having to make a std parport pin an input an
> > input, but somethings out of whack. I'll take the box apart again
> > tomorrow to make sure that BOB is powered. I'm also considering
> > making a new, bigger box, and moving both bobs to it, this machine's
> > bob wiring has about exceeded the real estate dedicated to the bob
> > interface.  Needs more playroom.
> >
> > In the meantime, if this rings a bell, with 5i25b users, speak up.
> >
> > Thank you all.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
>
>
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nks
-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-26 Thread Peter C. Wallace 

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 21:17:29 -0400
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

Greetings all;

I just hooked up a couple cables to the BOB on a 5i25's p2 connector. But
gpio 31-32-33-34-35 apparently have no pullup.I searched thru the hal
file looking for gpio.013, which is the pin all three switches formerly
shared and is wired to p3-10.  Those pins have a pullup, to about 4.85
volts.


All I/O pins on P2 and P3 have 3.3K pullups



I don't recall ever having to make a std parport pin an input an input,
but somethings out of whack. I'll take the box apart again tomorrow to
make sure that BOB is powered. I'm also considering making a new, bigger
box, and moving both bobs to it, this machine's bob wiring has about
exceeded the real estate dedicated to the bob interface.  Needs more
playroom.

In the meantime, if this rings a bell, with 5i25b users, speak up.

Thank you all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.



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[Emc-users] 5i25 gpio's

2018-10-26 Thread Gene Heskett 
 Greetings all;

I just hooked up a couple cables to the BOB on a 5i25's p2 connector. But 
gpio 31-32-33-34-35 apparently have no pullup.I searched thru the hal 
file looking for gpio.013, which is the pin all three switches formerly 
shared and is wired to p3-10.  Those pins have a pullup, to about 4.85 
volts.

I don't recall ever having to make a std parport pin an input an input, 
but somethings out of whack. I'll take the box apart again tomorrow to 
make sure that BOB is powered. I'm also considering making a new, bigger 
box, and moving both bobs to it, this machine's bob wiring has about 
exceeded the real estate dedicated to the bob interface.  Needs more 
playroom.

In the meantime, if this rings a bell, with 5i25b users, speak up.

Thank you all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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