Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Dave Cole]

For something like this; I don't think that anyone would care if you 
upgraded it.

But they would care if it died again on the highway.

This is like ignitions.I have several old cars and I frequently 
install under cap electronic ignitions.
I know they are there, but no one else does.   The car just runs a lot 
better and is much more reliable.   I could keep the original points 
setup (since it is original) but ignition points suck!


In my view, Andy's Ner a Car is an entirely different matter.   I would 
keep that original.  But then he isn't likely to take it across the 
desert for some fun.  That Ner a Car is a museum piece!


Here is the history of the Scout.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Harvester_Scout#Scout_80

Looks like 1967 was the first year a little V8 was available.

As mentioned, they had more than a few quality control issues back then. 
  That's one reason I believe why they closed the plant. Why paint the 
interior panels when no one can see them!   GM did the same thing for 
many years.The old plant is still there but now all divided up for 
various businesses.That truck plant was very big.


Dave


On 7/31/2017 9:54 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:

On 07/31/2017 04:04 PM, Dave Cole wrote:

That Scout probably has that half a V8 engine..  its a slant 4 engine
with about 200 cu inches?
I believe that was made not too far from my house in Fort Wayne, IN.
I almost bought one of those back in the late 70's.
They rusted like crazy in the midwest.  Rust prevention was an after
thought back then.
There are still a few of those running around here.
I'd ditch that device.   Otherwise you will be rebuilding it again.

Dave


Part of my thinking is that what's the point of having an old car if 
one upgrades all of the parts. The owner prefers using the upgrade, 
but I thought if I could figure out the restoration issues without too 
much trouble it might be fun to restore the CVR and have the option. 
To totally upgrade the CVR it might be fun to use something like a 
Teensy to simulate the old one.


This IH Scout has a V8, but I don't know any of the particulars. I'll 
ask the owner what kind it is and maybe link some pictures if that is 
alright.





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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[andy pugh]

On 1 August 2017 at 02:54, Kirk Wallace  wrote:

> Part of my thinking is that what's the point of having an old car if one
> upgrades all of the parts.

I agree. Hence the acetylene lights and magneto with mica capacitor on
my Ner-a-Car.

I replaced the selenium rectifiers on my lathe when I CNC-ed it
though. In fact I replaced the Selenium rectifiers with a PC
motherboard and Mesa cards, in the same space.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Chris Albertson]

Yes, you said "insulated" but it obviously is because they make coils with
this wire.  Sorry I did not think to point this out.

The $16 assortment on Amazon will provide quite a lot of wire.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:11 PM, Kirk Wallace 
wrote:

> On 07/31/2017 02:59 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
>> Someone here might know where to get the thin heater wire (insulated
>>
>>> nichrome?) to rebuild the linked gauge CVR?
>>>
>>>
>> Locally, try "smoke shops"   People into e-cirgaretts use this wire.  It
>> comes in different gauges.Amazon sells the same wire for the same use
>>
>
> It seems that Kanthal A series (FeCrAl) forms an aluminum oxide skin which
> is an electrical insulator.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanthal_(alloy)
>
> From the size and number of turns, 30 on the bi-metal arm @ .125" wide =
> 7.5", and measuring a 0.004" diameter or 38 gauge and 53 Ohms per foot, I
> get 33 Ohms which matches what I measured while troubleshooting the
> instruments early on. This should do it:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/282229270564
>
> with a lot left over.
>
>
> --
> Kirk Wallace
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Kirk Wallace]

On 07/31/2017 02:59 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Someone here might know where to get the thin heater wire (insulated

nichrome?) to rebuild the linked gauge CVR?



Locally, try "smoke shops"   People into e-cirgaretts use this wire.  It
comes in different gauges.Amazon sells the same wire for the same use


It seems that Kanthal A series (FeCrAl) forms an aluminum oxide skin 
which is an electrical insulator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanthal_(alloy)

From the size and number of turns, 30 on the bi-metal arm @ .125" wide 
= 7.5", and measuring a 0.004" diameter or 38 gauge and 53 Ohms per 
foot, I get 33 Ohms which matches what I measured while troubleshooting 
the instruments early on. This should do it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282229270564

with a lot left over.


--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Todd Zuercher]

My dad had a Scout II when I was a kid.  I thought it was pretty cool back 
then.  I've heard most of their rust problems stemmed from the insides of the 
body panels not even being painted.  Very durable trucks otherwise.  I also 
heard a story, an IH line worker said to a co-worker as he finished his can of 
pop "This will drive someone crazy" then threw the can into the body and 
screwed the panel shut. 

- Original Message -
From: "Kirk Wallace" <kwall...@wallacecompany.com>
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 9:54:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

On 07/31/2017 04:04 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> That Scout probably has that half a V8 engine..  its a slant 4 engine
> with about 200 cu inches?
> I believe that was made not too far from my house in Fort Wayne, IN.
> I almost bought one of those back in the late 70's.
> They rusted like crazy in the midwest.  Rust prevention was an after
> thought back then.
> There are still a few of those running around here.
> I'd ditch that device.   Otherwise you will be rebuilding it again.
>
> Dave

Part of my thinking is that what's the point of having an old car if one 
upgrades all of the parts. The owner prefers using the upgrade, but I 
thought if I could figure out the restoration issues without too much 
trouble it might be fun to restore the CVR and have the option. To 
totally upgrade the CVR it might be fun to use something like a Teensy 
to simulate the old one.

This IH Scout has a V8, but I don't know any of the particulars. I'll 
ask the owner what kind it is and maybe link some pictures if that is 
alright.


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Kirk Wallace]

On 07/31/2017 04:04 PM, Dave Cole wrote:

That Scout probably has that half a V8 engine..  its a slant 4 engine
with about 200 cu inches?
I believe that was made not too far from my house in Fort Wayne, IN.
I almost bought one of those back in the late 70's.
They rusted like crazy in the midwest.  Rust prevention was an after
thought back then.
There are still a few of those running around here.
I'd ditch that device.   Otherwise you will be rebuilding it again.

Dave


Part of my thinking is that what's the point of having an old car if one 
upgrades all of the parts. The owner prefers using the upgrade, but I 
thought if I could figure out the restoration issues without too much 
trouble it might be fun to restore the CVR and have the option. To 
totally upgrade the CVR it might be fun to use something like a Teensy 
to simulate the old one.


This IH Scout has a V8, but I don't know any of the particulars. I'll 
ask the owner what kind it is and maybe link some pictures if that is 
alright.



--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Dave Cole]

That Scout probably has that half a V8 engine..  its a slant 4 engine 
with about 200 cu inches?

I believe that was made not too far from my house in Fort Wayne, IN.
I almost bought one of those back in the late 70's.
They rusted like crazy in the midwest.  Rust prevention was an after 
thought back then.

There are still a few of those running around here.
I'd ditch that device.   Otherwise you will be rebuilding it again.

Dave


On 7/31/2017 5:43 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:

On 07/31/2017 02:00 PM, andy pugh wrote:
On 31 July 2017 at 21:47, Kirk Wallace  
wrote:



Someone here might know where to get the thin heater wire (insulated
nichrome?) to rebuild the linked gauge CVR?


How hot does it get? Could you wrap the part in Kapton tape and use
uninsulated wire?


I don't think it normally should get exceptionally hot, just enough to 
bend the bi-metal spring. Here is a link of a decent overview of CVR 
units:

http://www.minimania.com/Smiths_Voltage_Stabilizers

less elegant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qVfKiujK5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1ou2WHdylY=2s

The unit I'm working on is for a International Harvester Scout from 
the 60s. The bi-metal arm got too (blue) hot due to a dead short to 
ground on the CVR output which melted the supply wire (should have had 
a 14amp fuse according to the schematic).


We opened the can on this one and got it working again until the 
heater wire melted from shorting to the bi-metal spring.


The plan so far is to use a 5 Volt buck converter instead:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/45520202

It may not matter, but the temperature characteristics of the CVR are 
supposed to match the temperature characteristics of the gauges and 
with the proper heater wire it should be easy to rewind.





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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Chris Albertson]

Someone here might know where to get the thin heater wire (insulated
> nichrome?) to rebuild the linked gauge CVR?
>

Locally, try "smoke shops"   People into e-cirgaretts use this wire.  It
comes in different gauges.Amazon sells the same wire for the same use

Here is one
https://www.amazon.com/Nichrome-Wire-Sample-Pack-Gauge/

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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Kirk Wallace]

On 07/31/2017 02:00 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On 31 July 2017 at 21:47, Kirk Wallace  wrote:


Someone here might know where to get the thin heater wire (insulated
nichrome?) to rebuild the linked gauge CVR?


How hot does it get? Could you wrap the part in Kapton tape and use
uninsulated wire?


I don't think it normally should get exceptionally hot, just enough to 
bend the bi-metal spring. Here is a link of a decent overview of CVR units:

http://www.minimania.com/Smiths_Voltage_Stabilizers

less elegant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qVfKiujK5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1ou2WHdylY=2s

The unit I'm working on is for a International Harvester Scout from the 
60s. The bi-metal arm got too (blue) hot due to a dead short to ground 
on the CVR output which melted the supply wire (should have had a 14amp 
fuse according to the schematic).


We opened the can on this one and got it working again until the heater 
wire melted from shorting to the bi-metal spring.


The plan so far is to use a 5 Volt buck converter instead:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/45520202

It may not matter, but the temperature characteristics of the CVR are 
supposed to match the temperature characteristics of the gauges and with 
the proper heater wire it should be easy to rewind.



--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[andy pugh]

On 31 July 2017 at 21:47, Kirk Wallace  wrote:

> Someone here might know where to get the thin heater wire (insulated
> nichrome?) to rebuild the linked gauge CVR?

How hot does it get? Could you wrap the part in Kapton tape and use
uninsulated wire?


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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[Emc-users] Fwd: Way OT: Heater Wire

[Kirk Wallace]

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Way OT: Heater Wire
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 13:36:59 -0700
From: Kirk Wallace 
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 

Someone here might know where to get the thin heater wire (insulated 
nichrome?) to rebuild the linked gauge CVR?


link:
http://wallacecompany.com/IH_Scout/

--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/


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