Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Mark Wendt (Contractor)]

Sven,
Great
news!  I received the same kit as that fella did, but as of yet have
not had a chance to play around with the hardware.  Santa brought
this for me, and the shipping box is sitting under the Christmas tree as
I type...  ;-)
Mark
At 04:48 AM 12/18/2007, you wrote:
Guys, 
For all of you that not hang around at
cnczone.com, there is now some positive
feedback about Keling and EMC at

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=373160. 
Here's one of the posts:

Keling KL-4030 + EMC2 

I just finished my JGRO using a Keling kit with the KL-4030 drivers.
After some experimentation I found these EMC2 settings work with the
Keling drivers:
STEPLEN >15000ns
STEPSPACE >15000ns
DIRSETUP >15000ns
DIRHOLD >15000ns
This was on an Athlon 3700+, when I switched to an older Athlon 1000 it
seem to run smoother when I increased all four settings to 20,000ns. I
tried reducing each setting and combination of settings below 15000ns but
I could not get stable operation.
Have run several 1+ line g-code files and am very pleased with the
EMC2 + Keling combination.
Now I just have to solve some resonace issues so I can get my cutting
speed up.

Regards,
Sven
2007/12/1, Mark Wendt (Contractor)
<
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Seth,

    I was poking around
cnczone right after I posted the question and saw your post over
there.  Trying to talk Santa into getting me the package for
Christmas...  ;-)

Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Svenne Larsson]

Guys,

For all of you that not hang around at cnczone.com, there is now some
positive feedback about Keling and EMC at
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=373160.


Here's one of the posts:
*
Keling KL-4030 + EMC2*
--
I just finished my JGRO using a Keling kit with the KL-4030 drivers.
After some experimentation I found these EMC2 settings work with the Keling
drivers:
STEPLEN >15000ns
STEPSPACE >15000ns
DIRSETUP >15000ns
DIRHOLD >15000ns
This was on an Athlon 3700+, when I switched to an older Athlon 1000 it seem
to run smoother when I increased all four settings to 20,000ns. I tried
reducing each setting and combination of settings below 15000ns but I could
not get stable operation.
Have run several 1+ line g-code files and am very pleased with the EMC2
+ Keling combination.
Now I just have to solve some resonace issues so I can get my cutting speed
up.


Regards,
Sven

2007/12/1, Mark Wendt (Contractor) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>  Seth,
>
> I was poking around cnczone right after I posted the question and
> saw your post over there.  Trying to talk Santa into getting me the package
> for Christmas...  ;-)
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Mark Wendt (Contractor)]

Seth,
I was
poking around cnczone right after I posted the question and saw your post
over there.  Trying to talk Santa into getting me the package for
Christmas...  ;-)
Mark
At 04:11 PM 11/30/2007, you wrote:
mark,
funny, i just posted similar questions on cnczone's forum (since i'm
totally new to the diy cnc game). i've gotten positive responses from a
number of people running various keling setups with emc2, and i'll be
setting one up soon enough myself. 
here's the link to the thread:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=373160#post373160

additionally, i've read through both emc2 and keling's (cnc4mypc)
literature and it seems like its primarily a question of pin configs - an
issue on which both systems seem rather flexible. 
incidentally, i emailed keling about whether their stuff compatible or
not, and they have not run in-house trials so could not confirm nor
deny.
hope that helps you. good luck! keep me informed on your progress.

-seth

On Nov 30, 2007 10:00 AM, Mark Wendt (Contractor)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:


Wondered if anyone has or is using the Keling KL-4030 stepper
drives

with EMC2.  Any compatibility problems with EMC2 and the
drives?

Thanks,

Mark



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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[W. Jacobs]

John and Andrew,
The motors I have are NEMA 34.  I had to look that up.  They are 
unipolar motors with ratings of 4.5 volt and 1.4 amp.  That makes the 
motor just under 15 watts which is not a lot but I think I can double 
that if I run them as bipolar motors.  It should not be that much harder 
to do.

I have an old mill drill that I want to convert.  It was made by Enco. I 
believe.  I is about 350 pounds and the table is roughly 8 x 24.  It is 
not close and I do not remember just what the specs are. 

I remember playing with these motors when I got them and thought they 
had as much torque as I had when I was driving the table by hand.  I do 
not think torque will be a problem and as I said, there will be a 
reduction in the pulley from motor to table.  

I plan to start out with a driver that will half step the motor.  If I 
get that working and feel that micro stepping would be better, maybe, I 
will ad it later.  My first concern is output port of the computer.  I 
also have not thought of a way to control the z axis.  I have not 
thought of an easy way to mount the motor and other hardware.

Thanks for the quick reply.
bill





John Kasunich wrote:
> You don't actually say how big your steppers are.  "Husky" is not a 
> number...   The relevant specs are current, voltage, and frame size, 
> roughly in that order.
>
> There tend to be two classes of motors (and drives) in the hobby CNC 
> world.  Motors under 2 or 2.5 amps are usually NEMA 23 frames, and are 
> suitable for micro-mills and mini-mills.  Micromills are the ones that 
> you can pick up without straining - Sherline, MaxNC, etc.  Minimills are 
> a bit bigger, maybe 150 lbs or so.
>
> Motors from 3 to 7 amps are usually NEMA 34 frames, and are sized for 
> larger machines, like mill-drills (400-700 lb machines).  Bridgeport 
> class machines usually use something bigger yet.
>
> In the "under 2.5 amp" catagory you have drives like Xylotex and others, 
> which normally run in the neighborhood of $30-70 per channel.  When you 
> get up to 3-7A motors, that is Gecko or similar, at $100-200 per channel.
>
> Tell us what class of machine and motors you have, and I'm sure more 
> suggestions will be forthcoming.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Kasunich
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 30 November 2007, W. Jacobs wrote:
>Hello All,
>I am new, real new to the cnc world.  I want to convert a small bench
>top mill into a cnc machine.  I have wanted to do this for a long time
>and about a week or two ago, I found the linuxCNC.org web site.  I have
>not at this time found a computer I want to use and am looking for one.
>
>I have wanted to do this project for a long time.  Because of that,
>Years ago, I found 3 rather husky stepper motors that I thought would be
>usable and bought them.  They have been sitting on a shelf for a long
>time.
>
>I looked at stepper drivers the other day and thought they were rather
>expensive.  A 3 axis unit was just over $300.  That seems like a lot of
>money to me.  It is my understanding that the printer port of the
>computer has 2 lines per axis.  One line tells direction and the other
>says to take a step now.  That seems pretty elementary to me.  It should
>use a small micro controller, and 4 transistors for each axis.
>
>I had planed to belt drive the lead screws with a timing belt and use a
>stepper motor that has 200 steps per revolution.  This will give
>resolution of about .0005 inch per step.  I may half step, but I see no
>reason to micro step.
>
>Am I missing something?  Is there more here than I think?  Is my concept
>of the data on the printer port wrong?  Any light on the situation would
>be helpful
>
>Thanks
>bill
>
No, your general view of the parport is correct.  The devil is of course in 
the details.  As for microstepping, it has the advantage of removing large 
amounts of resonance vibrations at middle speeds of the motors, thereby 
enhancing the torque available to do real work quite a bit.

I'm running the xylotex 3 motor kit running in 8x microstep mode on a 
micromill that's been expanded and modified quite a bit, the most recent 
being a whole new z axis drive that puts the driving screw in front of the 
post and above the head, removing about .020" of give in the head sled gibs, 
backlash is now about 2 thou and compensatable for in emc.  I can now drill 
small holes under emc control.  I also have a 4 motor kit with the 450oz 
motors to do my small lathe with eventually, but that's all in a box till 
warmer weather now.  Very little heat in my shop & I'm diabetic so my feet 
get cold easy.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 that's a Kludge(TM)
 It Works(tm)
 AIX works(TM)
 no it doesn't
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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[John Kasunich]

W. Jacobs wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am new, real new to the cnc world.  I want to convert a small bench 
> top mill into a cnc machine.  I have wanted to do this for a long time 
> and about a week or two ago, I found the linuxCNC.org web site.  I have 
> not at this time found a computer I want to use and am looking for one. 
> 
> I have wanted to do this project for a long time.  Because of that, 
> Years ago, I found 3 rather husky stepper motors that I thought would be 
> usable and bought them.  They have been sitting on a shelf for a long 
> time. 
> 
> I looked at stepper drivers the other day and thought they were rather 
> expensive.  A 3 axis unit was just over $300.  That seems like a lot of 
> money to me.  It is my understanding that the printer port of the 
> computer has 2 lines per axis.  One line tells direction and the other 
> says to take a step now.  That seems pretty elementary to me.  It should 
> use a small micro controller, and 4 transistors for each axis. 
> 
> I had planed to belt drive the lead screws with a timing belt and use a 
> stepper motor that has 200 steps per revolution.  This will give 
> resolution of about .0005 inch per step.  I may half step, but I see no 
> reason to micro step.
> 
> Am I missing something?  Is there more here than I think?  Is my concept 
> of the data on the printer port wrong?  Any light on the situation would 
> be helpful
> 
> Thanks
> bill

You don't actually say how big your steppers are.  "Husky" is not a 
number...   The relevant specs are current, voltage, and frame size, 
roughly in that order.

There tend to be two classes of motors (and drives) in the hobby CNC 
world.  Motors under 2 or 2.5 amps are usually NEMA 23 frames, and are 
suitable for micro-mills and mini-mills.  Micromills are the ones that 
you can pick up without straining - Sherline, MaxNC, etc.  Minimills are 
a bit bigger, maybe 150 lbs or so.

Motors from 3 to 7 amps are usually NEMA 34 frames, and are sized for 
larger machines, like mill-drills (400-700 lb machines).  Bridgeport 
class machines usually use something bigger yet.

In the "under 2.5 amp" catagory you have drives like Xylotex and others, 
which normally run in the neighborhood of $30-70 per channel.  When you 
get up to 3-7A motors, that is Gecko or similar, at $100-200 per channel.

Tell us what class of machine and motors you have, and I'm sure more 
suggestions will be forthcoming.

Regards,

John Kasunich

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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Andrew Ayre]

I think the problem is a matter of power. If your motors have a lot of
torque and take a lot of current then you need integrated drivers. These
drivers can be pricey.

I bought a 4-axis driver board from hobbycnc.com because when I added up
the cost of the components for a simple set of hardware, it wasn't much
less than a professional kit with technical support. I think the current
cost is around $100.

Andy

W. Jacobs wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am new, real new to the cnc world.  I want to convert a small bench 
> top mill into a cnc machine.  I have wanted to do this for a long time 
> and about a week or two ago, I found the linuxCNC.org web site.  I have 
> not at this time found a computer I want to use and am looking for one. 
> 
> I have wanted to do this project for a long time.  Because of that, 
> Years ago, I found 3 rather husky stepper motors that I thought would be 
> usable and bought them.  They have been sitting on a shelf for a long 
> time. 
> 
> I looked at stepper drivers the other day and thought they were rather 
> expensive.  A 3 axis unit was just over $300.  That seems like a lot of 
> money to me.  It is my understanding that the printer port of the 
> computer has 2 lines per axis.  One line tells direction and the other 
> says to take a step now.  That seems pretty elementary to me.  It should 
> use a small micro controller, and 4 transistors for each axis. 
> 
> I had planed to belt drive the lead screws with a timing belt and use a 
> stepper motor that has 200 steps per revolution.  This will give 
> resolution of about .0005 inch per step.  I may half step, but I see no 
> reason to micro step.
> 
> Am I missing something?  Is there more here than I think?  Is my concept 
> of the data on the printer port wrong?  Any light on the situation would 
> be helpful
> 
> Thanks
> bill
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote:
>> Wondered if anyone has or is using the Keling KL-4030 stepper drives 
>> with EMC2.  Any compatibility problems with EMC2 and the drives?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>>
>>
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>>
>>   
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> 

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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[W. Jacobs]

Hello All,
I am new, real new to the cnc world.  I want to convert a small bench 
top mill into a cnc machine.  I have wanted to do this for a long time 
and about a week or two ago, I found the linuxCNC.org web site.  I have 
not at this time found a computer I want to use and am looking for one. 

I have wanted to do this project for a long time.  Because of that, 
Years ago, I found 3 rather husky stepper motors that I thought would be 
usable and bought them.  They have been sitting on a shelf for a long 
time. 

I looked at stepper drivers the other day and thought they were rather 
expensive.  A 3 axis unit was just over $300.  That seems like a lot of 
money to me.  It is my understanding that the printer port of the 
computer has 2 lines per axis.  One line tells direction and the other 
says to take a step now.  That seems pretty elementary to me.  It should 
use a small micro controller, and 4 transistors for each axis. 

I had planed to belt drive the lead screws with a timing belt and use a 
stepper motor that has 200 steps per revolution.  This will give 
resolution of about .0005 inch per step.  I may half step, but I see no 
reason to micro step.

Am I missing something?  Is there more here than I think?  Is my concept 
of the data on the printer port wrong?  Any light on the situation would 
be helpful

Thanks
bill



Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote:
> Wondered if anyone has or is using the Keling KL-4030 stepper drives 
> with EMC2.  Any compatibility problems with EMC2 and the drives?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[seth wiley]

mark,

funny, i just posted similar questions on cnczone's forum (since i'm totally
new to the diy cnc game). i've gotten positive responses from a number of
people running various keling setups with emc2, and i'll be setting one up
soon enough myself.

here's the link to the thread:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=373160#post373160

additionally, i've read through both emc2 and keling's (cnc4mypc) literature
and it seems like its primarily a question of pin configs - an issue on
which both systems seem rather flexible.

incidentally, i emailed keling about whether their stuff compatible or not,
and they have not run in-house trials so could not confirm nor deny.

hope that helps you. good luck! keep me informed on your progress.

-seth


On Nov 30, 2007 10:00 AM, Mark Wendt (Contractor) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Wondered if anyone has or is using the Keling KL-4030 stepper drives
> with EMC2.  Any compatibility problems with EMC2 and the drives?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Mark Wendt (Contractor)]

Thanks Ray.  I've sent him a few emails, but I'm not entirely sure 
I'm asking him the right questions...  ;-)

Mark

At 11:30 AM 11/30/2007, you wrote:

>The Keling guy was at the cnc-workshop a couple years ago and helped me
>translate some info on China motors.  I'd say give him a call.
>
>Rayh
>
>
>On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 11:24 -0500, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote:
> > Jeff,
> >
> >  Thanks for the info.  Keling is selling this package:
> >   Not sure if that will
> > give you anymore info on the drives or not.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Mark
> >
> > At 10:35 AM 11/30/2007, you wrote:
> > >I have no experience with this company or its products, but I was able
> > >to find a very short (one-page) datasheet on their website.
> > >
> > >It appears that the KL-4030 takes step and direction inputs through
> > >optoisolators.  emc has no problem producing step and direction
> > >waveforms--probably this is the way the vast majority of emc users
> > >control their machines.
> > >
> > >However, I was unable to find information about the following, which may
> > >make it a matter of trial and error to properly configure your system to
> > >interface to these drives:
> > > * Waveform timings: Step length, step space, direction setup,
> > >   direction hold.  The emc step generator can be configured to meet
> > >   any timing requirements of the stepper driver, but you have to
> > >   know what they are!
> > >
> > > * Optoisolator current requirements.  Without knowing the
> > >   requirement, it is impossible to know whether a particular
> > >   breakout board will correctly operate the optos.
> > >
> > >Jeff
> > >
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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Ray Henry]

The Keling guy was at the cnc-workshop a couple years ago and helped me
translate some info on China motors.  I'd say give him a call.

Rayh


On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 11:24 -0500, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
>  Thanks for the info.  Keling is selling this package: 
>   Not sure if that will 
> give you anymore info on the drives or not.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Mark
> 
> At 10:35 AM 11/30/2007, you wrote:
> >I have no experience with this company or its products, but I was able
> >to find a very short (one-page) datasheet on their website.
> >
> >It appears that the KL-4030 takes step and direction inputs through
> >optoisolators.  emc has no problem producing step and direction
> >waveforms--probably this is the way the vast majority of emc users
> >control their machines.
> >
> >However, I was unable to find information about the following, which may
> >make it a matter of trial and error to properly configure your system to
> >interface to these drives:
> > * Waveform timings: Step length, step space, direction setup,
> >   direction hold.  The emc step generator can be configured to meet
> >   any timing requirements of the stepper driver, but you have to
> >   know what they are!
> >
> > * Optoisolator current requirements.  Without knowing the
> >   requirement, it is impossible to know whether a particular
> >   breakout board will correctly operate the optos.
> >
> >Jeff
> >
> >-
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> >mainstream.  Let it simplify your IT future.
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> 
> 
> 
> -
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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Mark Wendt (Contractor)]

Jeff,

 Thanks for the info.  Keling is selling this package: 
  Not sure if that will 
give you anymore info on the drives or not.

Thanks again,
Mark

At 10:35 AM 11/30/2007, you wrote:
>I have no experience with this company or its products, but I was able
>to find a very short (one-page) datasheet on their website.
>
>It appears that the KL-4030 takes step and direction inputs through
>optoisolators.  emc has no problem producing step and direction
>waveforms--probably this is the way the vast majority of emc users
>control their machines.
>
>However, I was unable to find information about the following, which may
>make it a matter of trial and error to properly configure your system to
>interface to these drives:
> * Waveform timings: Step length, step space, direction setup,
>   direction hold.  The emc step generator can be configured to meet
>   any timing requirements of the stepper driver, but you have to
>   know what they are!
>
> * Optoisolator current requirements.  Without knowing the
>   requirement, it is impossible to know whether a particular
>   breakout board will correctly operate the optos.
>
>Jeff
>
>-
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Re: [Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Jeff Epler]

I have no experience with this company or its products, but I was able
to find a very short (one-page) datasheet on their website.

It appears that the KL-4030 takes step and direction inputs through
optoisolators.  emc has no problem producing step and direction
waveforms--probably this is the way the vast majority of emc users
control their machines.

However, I was unable to find information about the following, which may
make it a matter of trial and error to properly configure your system to
interface to these drives:
* Waveform timings: Step length, step space, direction setup,
  direction hold.  The emc step generator can be configured to meet
  any timing requirements of the stepper driver, but you have to
  know what they are!

* Optoisolator current requirements.  Without knowing the
  requirement, it is impossible to know whether a particular
  breakout board will correctly operate the optos.

Jeff

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[Emc-users] Keling Stepper drives

[Mark Wendt (Contractor)]

Wondered if anyone has or is using the Keling KL-4030 stepper drives 
with EMC2.  Any compatibility problems with EMC2 and the drives?

Thanks,
Mark


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