Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 03/13/2017 10:00 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> This has been a long time standard email client on many systems and is
>> still in use today.
> On this list, even.

And many other places.


>> It is *still* in development (last release ~16 days ago).
> "*still*", huh? Venerable it may be, but that just means it has a few
> tricks up its sleeves. (Given that level of awareness, I thought you
> might be using it, but no, I see.)

Apparently, it did not come out right. That might be because I'm, not a
native to this strange language I'm trying to use...

I use mutt too. Not very often, but it is, occasionally, the best tool
for the job at hand.

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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Erik Christiansen]

On 12.03.17 23:17, Bertho Stultiens wrote:
> Mutt is a command-line email reader; see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutt_(email_client)
> 
> This has been a long time standard email client on many systems and is
> still in use today.

On this list, even.

> It is *still* in development (last release ~16 days ago).

"*still*", huh? Venerable it may be, but that just means it has a few
tricks up its sleeves. (Given that level of awareness, I thought you
might be using it, but no, I see.)

Its configurability is very nice; when I wanted it to detect emails from
my brother, sent from work, and twiddle the reply address to his home
address instead (where he reads mail more often), it was not too hard to
make it look after that for me. (The GUI offerings may be able to do
that too, but I'd be hard pressed to imagine the hieroglyphics needed.)

But yes, if you stick with keeping emails in large topic-related files
(mbox format), rather than maildir (one email per file), then noatime or
even relatime can be a nuisance, if not dealt with.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Phillip Carter]

On 13/3/17 1:45 pm, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> Then why hasn't its issue with noatime been fixed?
>
>
>
>From: Bertho Stultiens 
>   To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
>   Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:22 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.
> 
> Mutt is a command-line email reader; see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutt_(email_client)
>
> This has been a long time standard email client on many systems and is
> still in use today. It is *still* in development (last release ~16 days
> ago).
>
> 
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> dictionary content that is easy and intuitive to access. Sign up for an
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http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/imurray2/compnotes/noatime_mutt.html



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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Gregg Eshelman]

Then why hasn't its issue with noatime been fixed?



  From: Bertho Stultiens 
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  
 Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.
   
Mutt is a command-line email reader; see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutt_(email_client)

This has been a long time standard email client on many systems and is
still in use today. It is *still* in development (last release ~16 days
ago).

   
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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Dave Cole]

noatime
http://en.tldp.org/LDP/solrhe/Securing-Optimizing-Linux-RH-Edition-v1.3/chap6sec73.html

. Mutt
http://www.tecmint.com/send-mail-from-command-line-using-mutt-command/

Dave

On 3/12/2017 6:04 PM, Peter Blodow wrote:
> Please, could someone explain to a poor physicist what noatime and Mutt are?
> Peter
>
> Am 12.03.2017 16:34, schrieb dragon:
>> For about three years now, I know of no other applications that has
>> issues with noatime other than Mutt. Everyone always says 'but it breaks
>> programs like Mutt' but in reality these days, my experience has been
>> that it only breaks Mutt. There used to be more applications that it
>> caused issues with but mostly they have either been patched or
>> deprecated. I have been using noatime for about 5 years now and have
>> experienced no issues with it on everything from desktops to servers to
>> dedicated appliance type setups for realtime audio and radio automation.
>>
>>   From what I have read, SSHFS has a bit more overhead in comparison to
>> NFS. In fairness though, I have never personally tested for it. Perhaps
>> someone else on the list has more info. On a desktop or server I
>> wouldn't sweat it too much but on the Pi it could make a difference. You
>> could just try both and see what happens. I have used both of them,
>> depending on the situation, but have never compared the impact on system
>> performance. Personally I wouldn't encrypt the remote mount on a secure
>> LAN when using the Pi unless sensitive data was involved. That just
>> seems like a lot of extra clock cycles for the little Pi, but perhaps I
>> am worrying about nothing.
>>
>> Amanda... check the perms on the directory itself, in addition to what
>> is set up for the mount.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 03/12/2017 08:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 12 March 2017 08:39:03 Erik Christiansen wrote:
>>>
 On 11.03.17 16:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 11 March 2017 12:02:36 dragon wrote:
>> I doubt that you will ever hit the end of life on a quality SD
>> card, especially a large size one. The writes that you are doing,
>> and thus the number of blocks, are TINY compared to what the cards
>> were designed for... photos and videos. You can also run a flash
>> file system instead of ext4 if you like. Checking that noatime is
>> set for the filesystem would have a far greater effect than all of
>> the writes that you will ever do in daily use. While true at one
>> time, this whole wearing out flash storage thing is almost a non
>> issue for use cases like this nowdays.
> How do I check that, and with the rube goldberg's hired hand boot
> configs used on the pi, how would I set the noatime option?
 AIUI, as relatime has long been the default (since kernel 2.6.30), you
 don't really need to do anything. Given that relatime only updates the
 access time if the previous access time was earlier than the current
 change time, there'll be slightly more writes than with noatime, but a
 lot less than with neither - and noatime breaks applications like
 mutt.

 If you do want to change it, then in /etc/fstab, add noatime to the
 comma-separated options in column 4. Before the relatime kernel
 default change, that was said to give a 10% performance boost. It
 shouldn't do anything noticeable now, I figure.

 If there's more recent info than that, it'd be interesting to hear.

>>> I was concerned on the pi, but its there for /, but not for /boot.  And I
>>> was never a fan of mutt, nor is email handled on that machine. It's
>>> running 3/4 ton of metal lathe.  But I use what I describe as mounts to
>>> put the high traffic dir as a mount over the top of an existing dir in
>>> order to put, when its fully operational, that directory effectively
>>> remoted to rotating media on this machine, useing sshfs.  This does of
>>> course show up in /etc/mtab.  That in turn gives amanda a tummy ache
>>> because although its wide open as far as perms go, its reported as no
>>> permission despite there being an entry for that directory on the pi's
>>> exclude list.  So amanda yowl's about it in the emailed backup report,
>>> but it does get backed up with the rest of this machine so its no
>>> biggie.
>>>
 Erik
>>> Thanks for the clarification, Erik.
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>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>>
>>
>> 

Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 03/12/2017 11:04 PM, Peter Blodow wrote:
> Please, could someone explain to a poor physicist what noatime and Mutt are?

Noatime refers to a flag that can be set on the filesystem. By default,
the access timestamp is recorded and saved in a unix filesystem (the
last time you access a file, any file). This requires a write to the
disk for /every/ thing you do with files, and on a unix system,
everything is a file. So it will add up to many many writes.

The flag noatime disables this behaviour and no access timestamps are
recorded/saved.


Mutt is a command-line email reader; see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutt_(email_client)

This has been a long time standard email client on many systems and is
still in use today. It is *still* in development (last release ~16 days
ago).


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Greetings Bertho

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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Peter Blodow]

Please, could someone explain to a poor physicist what noatime and Mutt are?
Peter

Am 12.03.2017 16:34, schrieb dragon:
> For about three years now, I know of no other applications that has
> issues with noatime other than Mutt. Everyone always says 'but it breaks
> programs like Mutt' but in reality these days, my experience has been
> that it only breaks Mutt. There used to be more applications that it
> caused issues with but mostly they have either been patched or
> deprecated. I have been using noatime for about 5 years now and have
> experienced no issues with it on everything from desktops to servers to
> dedicated appliance type setups for realtime audio and radio automation.
>
>  From what I have read, SSHFS has a bit more overhead in comparison to
> NFS. In fairness though, I have never personally tested for it. Perhaps
> someone else on the list has more info. On a desktop or server I
> wouldn't sweat it too much but on the Pi it could make a difference. You
> could just try both and see what happens. I have used both of them,
> depending on the situation, but have never compared the impact on system
> performance. Personally I wouldn't encrypt the remote mount on a secure
> LAN when using the Pi unless sensitive data was involved. That just
> seems like a lot of extra clock cycles for the little Pi, but perhaps I
> am worrying about nothing.
>
> Amanda... check the perms on the directory itself, in addition to what
> is set up for the mount.
>
>
>
>
> On 03/12/2017 08:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 12 March 2017 08:39:03 Erik Christiansen wrote:
>>
>>> On 11.03.17 16:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Saturday 11 March 2017 12:02:36 dragon wrote:
> I doubt that you will ever hit the end of life on a quality SD
> card, especially a large size one. The writes that you are doing,
> and thus the number of blocks, are TINY compared to what the cards
> were designed for... photos and videos. You can also run a flash
> file system instead of ext4 if you like. Checking that noatime is
> set for the filesystem would have a far greater effect than all of
> the writes that you will ever do in daily use. While true at one
> time, this whole wearing out flash storage thing is almost a non
> issue for use cases like this nowdays.
 How do I check that, and with the rube goldberg's hired hand boot
 configs used on the pi, how would I set the noatime option?
>>> AIUI, as relatime has long been the default (since kernel 2.6.30), you
>>> don't really need to do anything. Given that relatime only updates the
>>> access time if the previous access time was earlier than the current
>>> change time, there'll be slightly more writes than with noatime, but a
>>> lot less than with neither - and noatime breaks applications like
>>> mutt.
>>>
>>> If you do want to change it, then in /etc/fstab, add noatime to the
>>> comma-separated options in column 4. Before the relatime kernel
>>> default change, that was said to give a 10% performance boost. It
>>> shouldn't do anything noticeable now, I figure.
>>>
>>> If there's more recent info than that, it'd be interesting to hear.
>>>
>> I was concerned on the pi, but its there for /, but not for /boot.  And I
>> was never a fan of mutt, nor is email handled on that machine. It's
>> running 3/4 ton of metal lathe.  But I use what I describe as mounts to
>> put the high traffic dir as a mount over the top of an existing dir in
>> order to put, when its fully operational, that directory effectively
>> remoted to rotating media on this machine, useing sshfs.  This does of
>> course show up in /etc/mtab.  That in turn gives amanda a tummy ache
>> because although its wide open as far as perms go, its reported as no
>> permission despite there being an entry for that directory on the pi's
>> exclude list.  So amanda yowl's about it in the emailed backup report,
>> but it does get backed up with the rest of this machine so its no
>> biggie.
>>
>>> Erik
>> Thanks for the clarification, Erik.
>>> --
>>>  Announcing the Oxford Dictionaries API! The API offers
>>> world-renowned dictionary content that is easy and intuitive to
>>> access. Sign up for an account today to start using our lexical data
>>> to power your apps and projects. Get started today and enter our
>>> developer competition. http://sdm.link/oxford
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 12 March 2017 11:34:27 dragon wrote:

> For about three years now, I know of no other applications that has
> issues with noatime other than Mutt. Everyone always says 'but it
> breaks programs like Mutt' but in reality these days, my experience
> has been that it only breaks Mutt. There used to be more applications
> that it caused issues with but mostly they have either been patched or
> deprecated. I have been using noatime for about 5 years now and have
> experienced no issues with it on everything from desktops to servers
> to dedicated appliance type setups for realtime audio and radio
> automation.
>
> From what I have read, SSHFS has a bit more overhead in comparison to
> NFS. In fairness though, I have never personally tested for it.
> Perhaps someone else on the list has more info. On a desktop or server
> I wouldn't sweat it too much but on the Pi it could make a difference.
> You could just try both and see what happens. I have used both of
> them, depending on the situation, but have never compared the impact
> on system performance. Personally I wouldn't encrypt the remote mount
> on a secure LAN when using the Pi unless sensitive data was involved.
> That just seems like a lot of extra clock cycles for the little Pi,
> but perhaps I am worrying about nothing.

The ssh encryption lag over the wire doesn't seem to be noticeable, gcode 
files are rarely over 300k in size if machine generated, while what I 
write, because I use loop structures everyplace I can, is rarely over 
300 lines, and one routine I wrote to sharpen carbide toothed table saw 
blades, takes about a day and a half to run, is actually less than 50 
lines. Finding a bug in machine generated code is nigh impossible, but a 
bug in my own code, because its probably in a subroutine, and repeated 
possibly 100's of times, is pretty easily found and fixed.

> Amanda... check the perms on the directory itself, in addition to what
> is set up for the mount.

If the mount has not been done, amanda doesn't complain, and it skips 
that directory like the good little girl she usually is. Here on this 
machine its 777. And while I am first user=1000 as gene here, there I'm 
first user=1000 as pi. tar is 1.27.1 on both.  Same pw on both even. One 
of those things that if I scratched my head over it, the hair would be 
thinner than it already is at 82yo. :)

[...]

> > Thanks for the clarification, Erik.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[dragon]

For about three years now, I know of no other applications that has
issues with noatime other than Mutt. Everyone always says 'but it breaks
programs like Mutt' but in reality these days, my experience has been
that it only breaks Mutt. There used to be more applications that it
caused issues with but mostly they have either been patched or
deprecated. I have been using noatime for about 5 years now and have
experienced no issues with it on everything from desktops to servers to
dedicated appliance type setups for realtime audio and radio automation.

From what I have read, SSHFS has a bit more overhead in comparison to
NFS. In fairness though, I have never personally tested for it. Perhaps
someone else on the list has more info. On a desktop or server I
wouldn't sweat it too much but on the Pi it could make a difference. You
could just try both and see what happens. I have used both of them,
depending on the situation, but have never compared the impact on system
performance. Personally I wouldn't encrypt the remote mount on a secure
LAN when using the Pi unless sensitive data was involved. That just
seems like a lot of extra clock cycles for the little Pi, but perhaps I
am worrying about nothing.

Amanda... check the perms on the directory itself, in addition to what
is set up for the mount.




On 03/12/2017 08:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 12 March 2017 08:39:03 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> 
>> On 11.03.17 16:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Saturday 11 March 2017 12:02:36 dragon wrote:
 I doubt that you will ever hit the end of life on a quality SD
 card, especially a large size one. The writes that you are doing,
 and thus the number of blocks, are TINY compared to what the cards
 were designed for... photos and videos. You can also run a flash
 file system instead of ext4 if you like. Checking that noatime is
 set for the filesystem would have a far greater effect than all of
 the writes that you will ever do in daily use. While true at one
 time, this whole wearing out flash storage thing is almost a non
 issue for use cases like this nowdays.
>>>
>>> How do I check that, and with the rube goldberg's hired hand boot
>>> configs used on the pi, how would I set the noatime option?
>>
>> AIUI, as relatime has long been the default (since kernel 2.6.30), you
>> don't really need to do anything. Given that relatime only updates the
>> access time if the previous access time was earlier than the current
>> change time, there'll be slightly more writes than with noatime, but a
>> lot less than with neither - and noatime breaks applications like
>> mutt.
>>
>> If you do want to change it, then in /etc/fstab, add noatime to the
>> comma-separated options in column 4. Before the relatime kernel
>> default change, that was said to give a 10% performance boost. It
>> shouldn't do anything noticeable now, I figure.
>>
>> If there's more recent info than that, it'd be interesting to hear.
>>
> I was concerned on the pi, but its there for /, but not for /boot.  And I 
> was never a fan of mutt, nor is email handled on that machine. It's 
> running 3/4 ton of metal lathe.  But I use what I describe as mounts to 
> put the high traffic dir as a mount over the top of an existing dir in 
> order to put, when its fully operational, that directory effectively 
> remoted to rotating media on this machine, useing sshfs.  This does of 
> course show up in /etc/mtab.  That in turn gives amanda a tummy ache 
> because although its wide open as far as perms go, its reported as no 
> permission despite there being an entry for that directory on the pi's 
> exclude list.  So amanda yowl's about it in the emailed backup report, 
> but it does get backed up with the rest of this machine so its no 
> biggie.
> 
>> Erik
> 
> Thanks for the clarification, Erik.
>> --
>>  Announcing the Oxford Dictionaries API! The API offers
>> world-renowned dictionary content that is easy and intuitive to
>> access. Sign up for an account today to start using our lexical data
>> to power your apps and projects. Get started today and enter our
>> developer competition. http://sdm.link/oxford
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 12 March 2017 08:39:03 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 11.03.17 16:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 11 March 2017 12:02:36 dragon wrote:
> > > I doubt that you will ever hit the end of life on a quality SD
> > > card, especially a large size one. The writes that you are doing,
> > > and thus the number of blocks, are TINY compared to what the cards
> > > were designed for... photos and videos. You can also run a flash
> > > file system instead of ext4 if you like. Checking that noatime is
> > > set for the filesystem would have a far greater effect than all of
> > > the writes that you will ever do in daily use. While true at one
> > > time, this whole wearing out flash storage thing is almost a non
> > > issue for use cases like this nowdays.
> >
> > How do I check that, and with the rube goldberg's hired hand boot
> > configs used on the pi, how would I set the noatime option?
>
> AIUI, as relatime has long been the default (since kernel 2.6.30), you
> don't really need to do anything. Given that relatime only updates the
> access time if the previous access time was earlier than the current
> change time, there'll be slightly more writes than with noatime, but a
> lot less than with neither - and noatime breaks applications like
> mutt.
>
> If you do want to change it, then in /etc/fstab, add noatime to the
> comma-separated options in column 4. Before the relatime kernel
> default change, that was said to give a 10% performance boost. It
> shouldn't do anything noticeable now, I figure.
>
> If there's more recent info than that, it'd be interesting to hear.
>
I was concerned on the pi, but its there for /, but not for /boot.  And I 
was never a fan of mutt, nor is email handled on that machine. It's 
running 3/4 ton of metal lathe.  But I use what I describe as mounts to 
put the high traffic dir as a mount over the top of an existing dir in 
order to put, when its fully operational, that directory effectively 
remoted to rotating media on this machine, useing sshfs.  This does of 
course show up in /etc/mtab.  That in turn gives amanda a tummy ache 
because although its wide open as far as perms go, its reported as no 
permission despite there being an entry for that directory on the pi's 
exclude list.  So amanda yowl's about it in the emailed backup report, 
but it does get backed up with the rest of this machine so its no 
biggie.

> Erik

Thanks for the clarification, Erik.
> --
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> world-renowned dictionary content that is easy and intuitive to
> access. Sign up for an account today to start using our lexical data
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Erik Christiansen]

On 11.03.17 16:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 11 March 2017 12:02:36 dragon wrote:
> 
> > I doubt that you will ever hit the end of life on a quality SD card,
> > especially a large size one. The writes that you are doing, and thus
> > the number of blocks, are TINY compared to what the cards were
> > designed for... photos and videos. You can also run a flash file
> > system instead of ext4 if you like. Checking that noatime is set for
> > the filesystem would have a far greater effect than all of the writes
> > that you will ever do in daily use. While true at one time, this whole
> > wearing out flash storage thing is almost a non issue for use cases
> > like this nowdays.
> >
> How do I check that, and with the rube goldberg's hired hand boot configs 
> used on the pi, how would I set the noatime option?

AIUI, as relatime has long been the default (since kernel 2.6.30), you
don't really need to do anything. Given that relatime only updates the
access time if the previous access time was earlier than the current
change time, there'll be slightly more writes than with noatime, but a
lot less than with neither - and noatime breaks applications like mutt.

If you do want to change it, then in /etc/fstab, add noatime to the
comma-separated options in column 4. Before the relatime kernel default
change, that was said to give a 10% performance boost. It shouldn't do
anything noticeable now, I figure.

If there's more recent info than that, it'd be interesting to hear.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 11 March 2017 12:02:36 dragon wrote:

> I doubt that you will ever hit the end of life on a quality SD card,
> especially a large size one. The writes that you are doing, and thus
> the number of blocks, are TINY compared to what the cards were
> designed for... photos and videos. You can also run a flash file
> system instead of ext4 if you like. Checking that noatime is set for
> the filesystem would have a far greater effect than all of the writes
> that you will ever do in daily use. While true at one time, this whole
> wearing out flash storage thing is almost a non issue for use cases
> like this nowdays.
>
How do I check that, and with the rube goldberg's hired hand boot configs 
used on the pi, how would I set the noatime option?

> Where you buy SD cards makes a difference. There are a LOT of fakes on
> fleabay or from 'other' vendors on amazon and such sites. The 'pro'
> series of cards are often of a much higher quality that the consumer
> ones as well.

One things for sure, the sandisks I bought at wallies are crap. Killed 2 
32Gbers in 3 days each.
> You can attach spinning or SSD disks via USB and it works just fine.

Great! assuming I pop for a cheap kingston 64Gb, whats the recommended 
adaptor I can feed from the 5v 4a supply?
 I 
> highly suggest using a powered SATA adapter though, even for SSDs as
> the pi just doesn't have many watts on the 5v bus to go around. I
> 'think' you still need to boot off of the SD card though. Just the
> bootloader, initram and kernel. Then your entire root and userspace
> can be on the USB attached storage or an NFS mount.

Or, since its megatons easier to setup, an sshfs mount?  I've putzed with 
NFS the last time I hope.

> In my opinion, if you have multiple machines of any given type (more
> than one mill for example) then it makes sense to have an NFS mount of
> some sort so that you can share NC files and tool tables, etc.

I've considered that, but the huge majority of what I've written for TLM, 
is not going to run on a machine with a third of TLM's spindle speed 
available. That thing has an operating envelope of about 5x9" in alu, 
2.5x9 in steel, and 4x9 in cast iron, where this ones a 12x36.

> YMMV

It always does.

> On 03/11/2017 10:29 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > When I setup LCNC on the pi, one of the things I did was to make an
> > R-Pi_nc_files directory on the rotating media of this machine,
> > copied all the .ngc files I have generated to run on TLM to it, and
> > cleaned out the nc_files directory on the pi, leaving only 2 files,
> > which will remind me when I see them that the directory on this
> > machine has not been mounted on top of that one.
> >
> > Thats by this one liner script:
> >
> > sshfs
> > g...@coyote.coyote.den:/home/gene/linuxcnc/R-Pi_nc_files/
> > /home/pi/linuxcnc/R-Pi_nc_files
> >
> > All one line of course, and the .ini file edited to point nc_files
> > at it.
> >
> > With all the config file updates I am doing as I work on both the
> > jog wheels and in due time the gear shift stuff when I've installed
> > the belt position sensors, that I am using up the microsd. It is a
> > bigger one, a Samsung 32Gb, so it will be a while before that
> > occurs, unlike the san-disk lookalikes that I destroyed 2 of in 3
> > days each.  Bad karma, and ruined my taste for san-disk stuff
> > entirely.
> >
> > I am considering doing the similar remote mount of rotating media
> > for the configs directory as it is getting 100x the
> > read-modify-write activity as I make this and that work. An sshfs
> > mount doesn't seem to be any slower than the microsd so far. But
> > since it gets a write to new .var files everytime I close LCNC, it
> > seems like a good idea.
> >
> > That mount could be incorporated into the above script as:
> >
> > sshfs
> > g...@coyote.den:/home/gene/linuxcnc/R-Pi_configs/
> > /home/pi/linuxcnc/configs
> >
> > Shoot me down if you think its wrong. :-)
> >
> > I do have amanda backing up the whole pi, so I could theoretically
> > recover to last nights backup state on a fresh Samsumg microsd with
> > a basic jessie install on it, but it does take time that I'd like to
> > forestall doing as long as I can.
> >
> > A 2nd alternative might be a usb to ssd adaptor but I've not
> > investigated setting up such a critter.  Has anyone else?
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[dragon]

I doubt that you will ever hit the end of life on a quality SD card,
especially a large size one. The writes that you are doing, and thus the
number of blocks, are TINY compared to what the cards were designed
for... photos and videos. You can also run a flash file system instead
of ext4 if you like. Checking that noatime is set for the filesystem
would have a far greater effect than all of the writes that you will
ever do in daily use. While true at one time, this whole wearing out
flash storage thing is almost a non issue for use cases like this nowdays.

Where you buy SD cards makes a difference. There are a LOT of fakes on
fleabay or from 'other' vendors on amazon and such sites. The 'pro'
series of cards are often of a much higher quality that the consumer
ones as well.

You can attach spinning or SSD disks via USB and it works just fine. I
highly suggest using a powered SATA adapter though, even for SSDs as the
pi just doesn't have many watts on the 5v bus to go around. I 'think'
you still need to boot off of the SD card though. Just the bootloader,
initram and kernel. Then your entire root and userspace can be on the
USB attached storage or an NFS mount.

In my opinion, if you have multiple machines of any given type (more
than one mill for example) then it makes sense to have an NFS mount of
some sort so that you can share NC files and tool tables, etc.

YMMV

On 03/11/2017 10:29 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> When I setup LCNC on the pi, one of the things I did was to make an 
> R-Pi_nc_files directory on the rotating media of this machine, copied 
> all the .ngc files I have generated to run on TLM to it, and cleaned out 
> the nc_files directory on the pi, leaving only 2 files, which will 
> remind me when I see them that the directory on this machine has not 
> been mounted on top of that one.
> 
> Thats by this one liner script:
> 
> sshfs 
> g...@coyote.coyote.den:/home/gene/linuxcnc/R-Pi_nc_files/ 
> /home/pi/linuxcnc/R-Pi_nc_files
> 
> All one line of course, and the .ini file edited to point nc_files at it.
> 
> With all the config file updates I am doing as I work on both the jog 
> wheels and in due time the gear shift stuff when I've installed the belt 
> position sensors, that I am using up the microsd. It is a bigger one, a 
> Samsung 32Gb, so it will be a while before that occurs, unlike the 
> san-disk lookalikes that I destroyed 2 of in 3 days each.  Bad karma, 
> and ruined my taste for san-disk stuff entirely.
> 
> I am considering doing the similar remote mount of rotating media for the 
> configs directory as it is getting 100x the read-modify-write activity 
> as I make this and that work. An sshfs mount doesn't seem to be any 
> slower than the microsd so far. But since it gets a write to new .var 
> files everytime I close LCNC, it seems like a good idea.
> 
> That mount could be incorporated into the above script as:
> 
> sshfs 
> g...@coyote.den:/home/gene/linuxcnc/R-Pi_configs/ /home/pi/linuxcnc/configs
> 
> Shoot me down if you think its wrong. :-)
> 
> I do have amanda backing up the whole pi, so I could theoretically 
> recover to last nights backup state on a fresh Samsumg microsd with a 
> basic jessie install on it, but it does take time that I'd like to 
> forestall doing as long as I can.
> 
> A 2nd alternative might be a usb to ssd adaptor but I've not investigated 
> setting up such a critter.  Has anyone else?
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 



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[Emc-users] Thoughts on extending the life of the microsd's.

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

When I setup LCNC on the pi, one of the things I did was to make an 
R-Pi_nc_files directory on the rotating media of this machine, copied 
all the .ngc files I have generated to run on TLM to it, and cleaned out 
the nc_files directory on the pi, leaving only 2 files, which will 
remind me when I see them that the directory on this machine has not 
been mounted on top of that one.

Thats by this one liner script:

sshfs 
g...@coyote.coyote.den:/home/gene/linuxcnc/R-Pi_nc_files/ 
/home/pi/linuxcnc/R-Pi_nc_files

All one line of course, and the .ini file edited to point nc_files at it.

With all the config file updates I am doing as I work on both the jog 
wheels and in due time the gear shift stuff when I've installed the belt 
position sensors, that I am using up the microsd. It is a bigger one, a 
Samsung 32Gb, so it will be a while before that occurs, unlike the 
san-disk lookalikes that I destroyed 2 of in 3 days each.  Bad karma, 
and ruined my taste for san-disk stuff entirely.

I am considering doing the similar remote mount of rotating media for the 
configs directory as it is getting 100x the read-modify-write activity 
as I make this and that work. An sshfs mount doesn't seem to be any 
slower than the microsd so far. But since it gets a write to new .var 
files everytime I close LCNC, it seems like a good idea.

That mount could be incorporated into the above script as:

sshfs 
g...@coyote.den:/home/gene/linuxcnc/R-Pi_configs/ /home/pi/linuxcnc/configs

Shoot me down if you think its wrong. :-)

I do have amanda backing up the whole pi, so I could theoretically 
recover to last nights backup state on a fresh Samsumg microsd with a 
basic jessie install on it, but it does take time that I'd like to 
forestall doing as long as I can.

A 2nd alternative might be a usb to ssd adaptor but I've not investigated 
setting up such a critter.  Has anyone else?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Announcing the Oxford Dictionaries API! The API offers world-renowned
dictionary content that is easy and intuitive to access. Sign up for an
account today to start using our lexical data to power your apps and
projects. Get started today and enter our developer competition.
http://sdm.link/oxford
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