Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 4 Jul 2015, at 22:50, Gene Heskett wrote: On Saturday 04 July 2015 14:41:40 Marcus Bowman wrote: On 4 Jul 2015, at 01:28, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 03 July 2015 20:19:09 Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 07/04/2015 01:48 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? Call me a picky old fart, I would not dare call you picky. Oh? why not? The other part I have no comment. ;-) I've been called lots worse than that. And I call myself picky because its the best fix for good enough, which too often isn't. but yes, direction will show because there is going to be the machine and tool flex from the cutting force, miniscule for a 10k rpm conical bit. Double that force every time the tool revs get cut in half and it will become quite visible. Good point. I had not thought about flexing. That will definitely have a result. Yes, the common 1/8, 60 degree solid carbide engraver can probably flex sideways 30 thou when pushed too fast, before it breaks. Well I'm using 30 degree (included angle) 1/8 shank carbide cutters with a 0.2mm flat on the tip, and they can flex sideways precisely zero before the little blighters snap. The 10 degree cutters break under a heavy breath, so I have all but given up on those. Never tried one that sharp. I did make a bunch of desk nameplates a couple years ago, in .03125 brass door kick plate. Worked well and didn't break it, but with my slow (2500 wide open) spindle I was only feeding 3 ipm or thereabouts. Slow enough I think the brass was work hardening. They would work better if one could orient them in the collet so the peak of the spindles TIR and the cutting edge matched. That would tend to give better heel clearance a better cut. But that would be picky indeed to fiddle with that! I run 3000rpm at 100mm/min (= 4 inches per minute) in brass or aluminium. With a 30 degree (included angle) cutter that works reliably and the cutters have a high survival rate. So our rates are similar, taking the extra revs into account. Marcus Flexing could also be a visible problem if you retrace a path. But it would depend very much on feed-rate and speed. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 4 Jul 2015, at 01:28, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 03 July 2015 20:19:09 Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 07/04/2015 01:48 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? Call me a picky old fart, I would not dare call you picky. Oh? why not? The other part I have no comment. ;-) I've been called lots worse than that. And I call myself picky because its the best fix for good enough, which too often isn't. but yes, direction will show because there is going to be the machine and tool flex from the cutting force, miniscule for a 10k rpm conical bit. Double that force every time the tool revs get cut in half and it will become quite visible. Good point. I had not thought about flexing. That will definitely have a result. Yes, the common 1/8, 60 degree solid carbide engraver can probably flex sideways 30 thou when pushed too fast, before it breaks. Well I'm using 30 degree (included angle) 1/8 shank carbide cutters with a 0.2mm flat on the tip, and they can flex sideways precisely zero before the little blighters snap. The 10 degree cutters break under a heavy breath, so I have all but given up on those. Marcus Flexing could also be a visible problem if you retrace a path. But it would depend very much on feed-rate and speed. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On Saturday 04 July 2015 14:41:40 Marcus Bowman wrote: On 4 Jul 2015, at 01:28, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 03 July 2015 20:19:09 Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 07/04/2015 01:48 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? Call me a picky old fart, I would not dare call you picky. Oh? why not? The other part I have no comment. ;-) I've been called lots worse than that. And I call myself picky because its the best fix for good enough, which too often isn't. but yes, direction will show because there is going to be the machine and tool flex from the cutting force, miniscule for a 10k rpm conical bit. Double that force every time the tool revs get cut in half and it will become quite visible. Good point. I had not thought about flexing. That will definitely have a result. Yes, the common 1/8, 60 degree solid carbide engraver can probably flex sideways 30 thou when pushed too fast, before it breaks. Well I'm using 30 degree (included angle) 1/8 shank carbide cutters with a 0.2mm flat on the tip, and they can flex sideways precisely zero before the little blighters snap. The 10 degree cutters break under a heavy breath, so I have all but given up on those. Never tried one that sharp. I did make a bunch of desk nameplates a couple years ago, in .03125 brass door kick plate. Worked well and didn't break it, but with my slow (2500 wide open) spindle I was only feeding 3 ipm or thereabouts. Slow enough I think the brass was work hardening. They would work better if one could orient them in the collet so the peak of the spindles TIR and the cutting edge matched. That would tend to give better heel clearance a better cut. But that would be picky indeed to fiddle with that! Marcus Flexing could also be a visible problem if you retrace a path. But it would depend very much on feed-rate and speed. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 4 Jul 2015, at 01:13, Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 07/04/2015 01:54 AM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote: If you look at something like Vectric's V-carve Pro it does the faster no-lift case. I suspect the high-end Aspire tool does the same since they are based on the same code base. For something like an A they don't even lift to go back a little to get to the cross bar. And its geared towards wood routers that likely have more backlash than any mill. I've used it to engrave small 1/16 text in steel on the Supermax and see no issue w/ it not lifting. I used V-carve Pro this morning, for engraving text 2mm high and saw no problems. I use it regularly for engraving and have not noticed artefacts. That is interesting because I always assumed that retracing a cut would be a bad thing and visible, due to primarily thermal effects, creating slightly different cuts on the retraced vs. single traced parts. Given the small forces involved, and the cooling effect of neat cutting oil, I can't see thermal effects being large enough to cause problems. Watching V-carve engrave lettering, I see it move backwards within some strokes, but I see no visual effects. Marcus The Hershey fonts are, however, not fit to be used in a no-lift fashion. The font strokes are very discrete, specified as integer points and the quantized height is 21. For example, the cross-bar of the 'A' cannot be reached from the sides (not on an integer intersection). I have been pondering a new font with real curves and more accurate positions, but the time it takes to create has been prohibitive. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 07/04/2015 12:52 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 3 July 2015 at 23:43, Bertho Stultiens ber...@vagrearg.org wrote: Well, not really as a flag. The strokes are a the primary part of the font-definition. It would mean to create an alternative version of the font face. I was just about to suggest that. Hershey_fast and Hershey_unidirectional maybe? I added a stroke reduced version of the single stroke sans font. The font does not look at preferential direction, but tries to minimize path-length and pen-up/down. However, it will never retrace a stroke, not even a partial retrace. Testing the difference on The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog results in a reduction of the rapid path with ~26% and a reduction of the feed path with ~2% because of pen-down reduction. The number of pen-up/downs decreased ~10%. The run-time was only slightly faster (49s vs 52s), but that is just on a simulation. A real mill/router will see some larger difference. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 3 July 2015 at 23:43, Bertho Stultiens ber...@vagrearg.org wrote: Well, not really as a flag. The strokes are a the primary part of the font-definition. It would mean to create an alternative version of the font face. I was just about to suggest that. Hershey_fast and Hershey_unidirectional maybe? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On Friday 03 July 2015 17:38:13 Bertho Stultiens wrote: Hi all, While porting the Hershey fonts for engraving it occurred to me that they are very heavy in pen-up/down movements because many strokes are partials. There is plenty of room for optimization, reducing the rapid moves by about 30%, but that means that engraving is not done in a consistent direction anymore. To illustrate what I mean, consider the letter V: 1) single stroke movement: - rapid move to left top - pen down - move to middle bottom - move to right top - pen up 2) double stroke movement: - rapid move to left top - pen down - move to middle bottom - pen up - rapid move to right top - pen down - move to middle bottom - pen up The first is faster (quite a bit) because you prevent Z movements and extra travel. However, the directional change of the mill may be visible in the stroke. On the other hand, the mill may not properly revert to the middle bottom in the second case either. What is the experience of the people here? What would be preferable? A quick (case 1) path or a directionally consistent path (case 2)? If you see more than a nearly invisible artifact using the first method, then it is time to tweak the backlash. Etching a PCB is also a pretty good test. However, I am not privy to whether or not the alpha blending includes the backlash movements. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On Friday 03 July 2015 19:32:08 Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 07/04/2015 01:06 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: What is the experience of the people here? What would be preferable? A quick (case 1) path or a directionally consistent path (case 2)? If you see more than a nearly invisible artifact using the first method, then it is time to tweak the backlash. Yes, the backlash is entirely the point. It would influence both cases. Case 1 would be skewed, but continuous, whereas case 2 might not join at the bottom. I agree that any significant error in positioning would require you to look at the mill to tweak the backlash. That said, there are visible, although minor, artifacts when you mill in different directions. I am still unclear as to where you would have the preference. As Andy and Bruce said, just create two font versions, which is what I will do, but the underlying question is actually an interesting one (although maybe slightly academic). If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? Call me a picky old fart, but yes, direction will show because there is going to be the machine and tool flex from the cutting force, miniscule for a 10k rpm conical bit. Double that force every time the tool revs get cut in half and it will become quite visible. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
If you look at something like Vectric's V-carve Pro it does the faster no-lift case. I suspect the high-end Aspire tool does the same since they are based on the same code base. For something like an A they don't even lift to go back a little to get to the cross bar. And its geared towards wood routers that likely have more backlash than any mill. I've used it to engrave small 1/16 text in steel on the Supermax and see no issue w/ it not lifting. On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Bertho Stultiens ber...@vagrearg.org wrote: On 07/04/2015 01:06 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: What is the experience of the people here? What would be preferable? A quick (case 1) path or a directionally consistent path (case 2)? If you see more than a nearly invisible artifact using the first method, then it is time to tweak the backlash. Yes, the backlash is entirely the point. It would influence both cases. Case 1 would be skewed, but continuous, whereas case 2 might not join at the bottom. I agree that any significant error in positioning would require you to look at the mill to tweak the backlash. That said, there are visible, although minor, artifacts when you mill in different directions. I am still unclear as to where you would have the preference. As Andy and Bruce said, just create two font versions, which is what I will do, but the underlying question is actually an interesting one (although maybe slightly academic). If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On Friday 03 July 2015 20:19:09 Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 07/04/2015 01:48 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? Call me a picky old fart, I would not dare call you picky. Oh? why not? The other part I have no comment. ;-) I've been called lots worse than that. And I call myself picky because its the best fix for good enough, which too often isn't. but yes, direction will show because there is going to be the machine and tool flex from the cutting force, miniscule for a 10k rpm conical bit. Double that force every time the tool revs get cut in half and it will become quite visible. Good point. I had not thought about flexing. That will definitely have a result. Yes, the common 1/8, 60 degree solid carbide engraver can probably flex sideways 30 thou when pushed too fast, before it breaks. Flexing could also be a visible problem if you retrace a path. But it would depend very much on feed-rate and speed. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 07/04/2015 02:28 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? Call me a picky old fart, I would not dare call you picky. Oh? why not? Lets just say that I respect the experience. There is a lot to learn from the old farts who are picky for a good reason. No need to make all the mistakes yourself. It is a lot cheaper to listen and learn than to rush and break stuff. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On Friday 03 July 2015 20:39:39 Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 07/04/2015 02:28 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? Call me a picky old fart, I would not dare call you picky. Oh? why not? Lets just say that I respect the experience. There is a lot to learn from the old farts who are picky for a good reason. No need to make all the mistakes yourself. It is a lot cheaper to listen and learn than to rush and break stuff. Thanks for the flowers. I have been a long time, learning to slow down a hair so I don't break things. Old age and its infirmity's are the major slowdown today, as I think can be expected when the calendar has already been tossed out for a new one 80 times on my watch. But now my gcode typo's do that breaking things for me. :( My machining experience has been, up till I found this list nearly 11 years ago (10/30/04 according to the subscription confirmation) after I had retired, very very sparse and spread out over about 55 years. I have learned a heck of a lot more from the real experts lurking on this list, than I can ever repay by teaching my version of electronics gained from the experience of serviceing electronics since 1948. Mostly broadcast stuff since the early 60's. I don't mind paying it back when I can. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
Lasers engrave too, and should produce the same results in both of your examples, although much quicker in the first example. Even on a CNC router or a mill, there is a large amount of variation in the results depending on spindle speed, cutter diameter, grain structure and other physical properties of the material being engraved, etc. Secondary operations are also a consideration. If a wood plaque is going to be engraved, spray painted to fill the engraving, and surface sanded to remove the excess paint over spray, the top surface details resulting from different engraving processes probably won't matter at all to the finished product. I can see people wanting the fastest path for some jobs and the slower consistent engraving direction options. Is there any way to make that a parameter that can be set? Isn't that always the way? Give people an Exclusive OR choice and they want the Inclusive OR option, and they inevitably ask, Can't we have both? :-) Thanks for your great work on gcmc. Really good stuff there. On 07/03/2015 05:38 PM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: Hi all, While porting the Hershey fonts for engraving it occurred to me that they are very heavy in pen-up/down movements because many strokes are partials. There is plenty of room for optimization, reducing the rapid moves by about 30%, but that means that engraving is not done in a consistent direction anymore. To illustrate what I mean, consider the letter V: 1) single stroke movement: - rapid move to left top - pen down - move to middle bottom - move to right top - pen up 2) double stroke movement: - rapid move to left top - pen down - move to middle bottom - pen up - rapid move to right top - pen down - move to middle bottom - pen up The first is faster (quite a bit) because you prevent Z movements and extra travel. However, the directional change of the mill may be visible in the stroke. On the other hand, the mill may not properly revert to the middle bottom in the second case either. What is the experience of the people here? What would be preferable? A quick (case 1) path or a directionally consistent path (case 2)? -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 07/04/2015 12:18 AM, Bruce Layne wrote: Even on a CNC router or a mill, there is a large amount of variation in the results depending on spindle speed, cutter diameter, grain structure and other physical properties of the material being engraved, etc. Secondary operations are also a consideration. If a wood plaque is going to be engraved, spray painted to fill the engraving, and surface sanded to remove the excess paint over spray, the top surface details resulting from different engraving processes probably won't matter at all to the finished product. It surely depends on the mill, materials and tools. But the question here would be: what is the rule of thumb? I can see people wanting the fastest path for some jobs and the slower consistent engraving direction options. Is there any way to make that a parameter that can be set? Well, not really as a flag. The strokes are a the primary part of the font-definition. It would mean to create an alternative version of the font face. Then you simply select another face. It looks the same, but takes a different path. Isn't that always the way? Give people an Exclusive OR choice and they want the Inclusive OR option, and they inevitably ask, Can't we have both? :-) Well, yes, humans and binary logic are a bad combination ;-) Anyway, simply creating an alternative version is no problem. But the question of what would be preferable remains. There are arguments for both versions. What I cannot decide is whether the arguments would favor one over the other, or that the argumnents' strength and conclusion primarily depends on other factors like mill, material, tool and post-handling. Thanks for your great work on gcmc. Really good stuff there. You are welcome. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 07/04/2015 01:06 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: What is the experience of the people here? What would be preferable? A quick (case 1) path or a directionally consistent path (case 2)? If you see more than a nearly invisible artifact using the first method, then it is time to tweak the backlash. Yes, the backlash is entirely the point. It would influence both cases. Case 1 would be skewed, but continuous, whereas case 2 might not join at the bottom. I agree that any significant error in positioning would require you to look at the mill to tweak the backlash. That said, there are visible, although minor, artifacts when you mill in different directions. I am still unclear as to where you would have the preference. As Andy and Bruce said, just create two font versions, which is what I will do, but the underlying question is actually an interesting one (although maybe slightly academic). If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 07/04/2015 01:54 AM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote: If you look at something like Vectric's V-carve Pro it does the faster no-lift case. I suspect the high-end Aspire tool does the same since they are based on the same code base. For something like an A they don't even lift to go back a little to get to the cross bar. And its geared towards wood routers that likely have more backlash than any mill. I've used it to engrave small 1/16 text in steel on the Supermax and see no issue w/ it not lifting. That is interesting because I always assumed that retracing a cut would be a bad thing and visible, due to primarily thermal effects, creating slightly different cuts on the retraced vs. single traced parts. The Hershey fonts are, however, not fit to be used in a no-lift fashion. The font strokes are very discrete, specified as integer points and the quantized height is 21. For example, the cross-bar of the 'A' cannot be reached from the sides (not on an integer intersection). I have been pondering a new font with real curves and more accurate positions, but the time it takes to create has been prohibitive. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Engraving direction question
On 07/04/2015 01:48 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: If we assume a mill with zero backlash and spindle-speed very much larger than the feed-rate, would you still care or be careful about direction? Call me a picky old fart, I would not dare call you picky. The other part I have no comment. ;-) but yes, direction will show because there is going to be the machine and tool flex from the cutting force, miniscule for a 10k rpm conical bit. Double that force every time the tool revs get cut in half and it will become quite visible. Good point. I had not thought about flexing. That will definitely have a result. Flexing could also be a visible problem if you retrace a path. But it would depend very much on feed-rate and speed. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
