Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Patrick Brunschwig]

On 04.02.15 23:28, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 2/4/15 1:21 PM, Ludwig Hügelschäfer wrote:
>> On 04.02.15 21:21, Doug Barton wrote:
>>> On 2/4/15 9:13 AM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
 We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we
 should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.

 Reasons: * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven
 for a long time to be stable. * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense
 on embedded devices and computers with limited resources, this
 does not hold anymore for today's PCs. * We still have quite a
 lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and maintenance of Enigmail is
 more complex with more versions of GnuPG (e.g. password handling
 / bug 287).
>>
>>> My knee-jerk reaction is that we're not yet at the point where 1.x
>>> usage has dropped sufficiently to warrant this change,
>>
>> There may have been some misunderstanding.
> 
> Nope, I understood the timeline perfectly. :)  There are still a lot of
> Linux distros that use 1.x by default, and that is not going to change
> any time in the next several years.
> 
>>> but before I cast a "No" vote (for whatever that's worth) I'm
>>> curious as to how much more complex development efforts are due to
>>> the 1.x code?
>>
>> Passphrase handling in Enigmail itself - necessary for gnupg 1.4 - is
>> a provisional solution and has a hard to catch and ugly bug
>> (https://sourceforge.net/p/enigmail/bugs/287/)
> 
> Doesn't actually answer my question. :)  Put a different way, what
> percentage of Enigmail developer time is spent addressing issues that
> only affect GnuPG 1.x?  And perhaps more importantly, what is the
> opportunity cost of leaving the code in? What good/new/exciting things
> will not be able to happen if the 1.x code is not removed?

The question is not so much the effort - you won't get a figure from me.
The main concern is code complexity, which makes things hard to read,
understand, develop, improve or fix.

-Patrick

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Patrick Brunschwig]

On 04.02.15 20:16, Bob Henson wrote:
> On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
>> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
>> think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
>>
>>
> Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation
> of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under
> Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait
> until there is a standalone "official" version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows.

Excuse me but that's rubish. You can install gpg4win-vanilla, which
delivery only GnuPG and pinentry, no other tools. That's what Enigmail
downloads in the Wizard.

-Patrick


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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Wed 2015-02-04 17:28:48 -0500, Doug Barton wrote:
> Nope, I understood the timeline perfectly. :)  There are still a lot of 
> Linux distros that use 1.x by default, and that is not going to change 
> any time in the next several years.

fwiw, in debian, the GnuPG maintainer team has been discussing how to
move to gpg2 as a default after the release of jessie.  We are not
actively pursuing it right now due to the freeze, though.

This will take a while to propagate to debian stable, of course, and
it's still not a forgone conclusion.  There's work to be done to make
sure that it comes out OK.

However, the linux distributions are the least of your worries, since
even the ones that ship gpg *also* ship gpg2.  I'd be happy to make the
enigmail package depend on gpg2 even if we never manage to make gpg2 the
default version of gpg in debian.

--dkg

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Doug Barton]

On 2/4/15 1:21 PM, Ludwig Hügelschäfer wrote:

On 04.02.15 21:21, Doug Barton wrote:

On 2/4/15 9:13 AM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:

We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we
should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.

Reasons: * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven
for a long time to be stable. * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense
on embedded devices and computers with limited resources, this
does not hold anymore for today's PCs. * We still have quite a
lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and maintenance of Enigmail is
more complex with more versions of GnuPG (e.g. password handling
/ bug 287).



My knee-jerk reaction is that we're not yet at the point where 1.x
usage has dropped sufficiently to warrant this change,


There may have been some misunderstanding.


Nope, I understood the timeline perfectly. :)  There are still a lot of 
Linux distros that use 1.x by default, and that is not going to change 
any time in the next several years.



but before I cast a "No" vote (for whatever that's worth) I'm
curious as to how much more complex development efforts are due to
the 1.x code?


Passphrase handling in Enigmail itself - necessary for gnupg 1.4 - is
a provisional solution and has a hard to catch and ugly bug
(https://sourceforge.net/p/enigmail/bugs/287/)


Doesn't actually answer my question. :)  Put a different way, what 
percentage of Enigmail developer time is spent addressing issues that 
only affect GnuPG 1.x?  And perhaps more importantly, what is the 
opportunity cost of leaving the code in? What good/new/exciting things 
will not be able to happen if the 1.x code is not removed?


Doug

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ludwig Hügelschäfer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 04.02.15 21:21, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 2/4/15 9:13 AM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
>> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we
>> should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
>> 
>> Reasons: * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven
>> for a long time to be stable. * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense
>> on embedded devices and computers with limited resources, this
>> does not hold anymore for today's PCs. * We still have quite a
>> lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and maintenance of Enigmail is
>> more complex with more versions of GnuPG (e.g. password handling
>> / bug 287).
> 
> My knee-jerk reaction is that we're not yet at the point where 1.x
> usage has dropped sufficiently to warrant this change,

There may have been some misunderstanding. The upcoming Enigmail 1.8
(some weeks away) does NOT remove support for gnupg 1.4. This will
happen with 1.9.

1.9 will maybe released in time for Thunderbird 38, which is due by
summer this year.

This is all speculation. We still don't know if there will be code
changes in Thunderbird 38 which make a new Enigmail release necessary.

> but before I cast a "No" vote (for whatever that's worth) I'm
> curious as to how much more complex development efforts are due to
> the 1.x code?

Passphrase handling in Enigmail itself - necessary for gnupg 1.4 - is
a provisional solution and has a hard to catch and ugly bug
(https://sourceforge.net/p/enigmail/bugs/287/)

HTH

Ludwig

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Wed 2015-02-04 12:13:18 -0500, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:

> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
> think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
>
> Reasons:
> * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven for a long
> time to be stable.
> * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense on embedded devices and computers
> with limited resources, this does not hold anymore for today's PCs.
> * We still have quite a lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and
> maintenance of Enigmail is more complex with more versions of GnuPG
> (e.g. password handling / bug 287).
>
>
> My plan is as follows:
> * Enigmail 1.8.x will still support GnuPG 1.4.x. However, if Enigmail
> detects GnuPG 1.4.x, a message will be displayed saying that GnuPG
> 1.4.x is considered deprecated and will no longer be supported in
> future major versions of Enigmail.
>
> * Enigmail 1.9.x will not support GnuPG 1.4.x anymore. We will either
> point users to a web page from where they can download GnuPG 2.x, or
> we will offer to install GnuPG 2.x directly from Enigmail (just like
> the wizard already does it). A decision for which way to go is not yet
> taken. I expect to release Enigmail 1.9 in late Q3 or Q4 2015.

This sounds like a good plan to me.  I'm glad to hear it.

Regards,

--dkg

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Robert J. Hansen]

> Not all Debian/Ubuntu users install Enigmail as a package, now that it
> no longer contains machine-dependent code.

No, but it *is* what we recommend.

If you get your Thunderbird from your distribution (or ports tree, for
the BSDs), then please also get Enigmail from the same place.
Downloading it from the web site is meant for people who have installed
Thunderbird from the Mozilla web site, or for people who don't mind
possibly running into problems with incompatibilities between their
distro-provided Thunderbird and their website-provided Enigmail.

We've had this guidance in place for at least eight years now.  Maybe
someday we'll change it, but we haven't yet.  :)



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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Faramir]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

El 04-02-2015 a las 16:16, Ludwig Hügelschäfer escibió:
...
> You'll need gpg4win, as it brings the required (and fully windows 
> integrated) pinentry.
> 
> gpg4win 2.23 works well on Win7 64 bit.

  I think it's safe to don't install Clawsmail and the outlook tool,
the rest things may be a good idea to install them, just in case.

  Best Regards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Doug Barton]

On 2/4/15 9:13 AM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:

We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.

Reasons:
* GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven for a long
time to be stable.
* While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense on embedded devices and computers
with limited resources, this does not hold anymore for today's PCs.
* We still have quite a lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and
maintenance of Enigmail is more complex with more versions of GnuPG
(e.g. password handling / bug 287).


My knee-jerk reaction is that we're not yet at the point where 1.x usage 
has dropped sufficiently to warrant this change, but before I cast a 
"No" vote (for whatever that's worth) I'm curious as to how much more 
complex development efforts are due to the 1.x code?


Doug

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

Yes, I would not have been able to do it without the help of you folk.

Ian


On 05/02/15 07:18, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 2/4/15 10:53 AM, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
>>> Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an
>>> Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade.
>>
>> It's not necessary.  Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail;
>> thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or
>> Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install
>> GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency.
>
> Not all Debian/Ubuntu users install Enigmail as a package, now that it no 
> longer contains machine-dependent code.
>
>> Or, you could just open a terminal window and type:
>>
>>   sudo apt-get install gnupg2
>
> That will work to get it installed, yes. And now that gnupg can use the 
> socket method for gpg-agent on Unix it's a lot easier to set up than it used 
> to be. Users who want to take advantage of the gpg-agent for ssh purposes 
> still face a pretty steep learning curve, however.
>
> Doug
>
>
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Doug Barton]

On 2/4/15 10:53 AM, Robert J. Hansen wrote:

Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an
Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade.


It's not necessary.  Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail;
thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or
Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install
GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency.


Not all Debian/Ubuntu users install Enigmail as a package, now that it 
no longer contains machine-dependent code.



Or, you could just open a terminal window and type:

  sudo apt-get install gnupg2


That will work to get it installed, yes. And now that gnupg can use the 
socket method for gpg-agent on Unix it's a lot easier to set up than it 
used to be. Users who want to take advantage of the gpg-agent for ssh 
purposes still face a pretty steep learning curve, however.


Doug


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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Doug Barton]

On 2/4/15 11:16 AM, Bob Henson wrote:

On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:

We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.



Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation
of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under
Windows 64 bit.


I am not sure where you are getting your information. I have used the 
Gpg4win-Light installer (which does not include Kleopatra) successfully 
on 64-bit Windows 7, and on XP before that, for many years.


Doug


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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Faramir]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

El 04-02-2015 a las 16:08, Bob Henson escibió:
> On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
>> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we
>> should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
>> 
> 
> There may be a few problems with Windows users only being able to
> get GnuPG 2.x as part of GPG4Win - that might put many people off
> using it. I'm not use how well it functions on 64 bit Windows
> systems - it

  Now I'm using Win 7 64 bits, couldn't make gpg 1.4.18 work, so I
moved to Gpg4Win 2.2.2 (now 2.2.3), and it works fine, except I'm
still unsure about how to tell it to use pool.sks-keyservers.net,
there is something with hkp and hkps... anyway, Gpg4win 2.2.3 seems to
install very easy, and Enigmail detects and use it like a charm.

  Best Regards

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Version: GnuPG v2
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

Ludwig,

That worked after putting in the Path,

Thank you

Ian


On 05/02/15 07:01, Ludwig Hügelschäfer wrote:
> On 04.02.15 20:36, Ian Mann wrote:
> > OK looks like I have GnuPG 2.0.22 on the system now.
>
> > Do I have to tell enigmail to use that now? If so how do I manage
> > that?
>
> It may be sufficient to restart Thunderbird, but I'm not sure.
>
> If not: You first have to know where gpg2 resides. This depends on the
> flavour of the linux system you have installed. Open a command shell
> window and type:
>
> which gpg2
>
> copy the path which is reported into
>
> Enigmail -> Preferences -> "Override with" setting. Make sure the
> checkbox left to it is set.
>
> If everything works, you'll be prompted by "pinentry" for your
> passphrase, not by enigmail itself. The pinentry used depends on your
> Linux flavour.
>
> HTH
>
> Ludwig
>
>
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Samir Nassar]

On Wednesday, February 04, 2015 05:09:24 PM Faramir wrote:
>   If I'm not wrong, gpg 1.4.16 had a security flaw so it's strange
> ubuntu has not upgraded to 1.4.17 or 1.4.18. But that flaw may have
> been too specific to be considered exploitable... it was something
> about denial of service.

Depending on the bug and how patchable it is, some distributions like Debian, 
and so Ubuntu, might apply patches to an existing version instead of pumping 
the version level.

Samir

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Faramir]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

El 04-02-2015 a las 15:07, Alexander Buchner escibió:
> On 04.02.2015 19:00, Bob Williams wrote:
>> I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the
>> output of
>> 
>> gpg --version?
> 
> I have a Ubuntu 14.10 system:
> 
> @@@:~$ gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16
...
  If I'm not wrong, gpg 1.4.16 had a security flaw so it's strange
ubuntu has not upgraded to 1.4.17 or 1.4.18. But that flaw may have
been too specific to be considered exploitable... it was something
about denial of service.

  Best Regards

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Faramir]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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El 04-02-2015 a las 14:13, Patrick Brunschwig escibió:
> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we
> should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
...
> 
> Please let me know if this would cause major issues that I'm not
> aware of.

  I would dislike that decision, but since I moved from XP to Win 7 64
bits I have been unable to make GnuPG 1.4.18 to work (I had to switch
to GPG4Win), I guess it won't have any impact to me.

  Best Regards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJU0nu4AAoJEMV4f6PvczxAtjMH/A4MWdsizZAXSyLhcehBIVcL
KG+dQoOIO5He2Rznc0E42GUozFRPeM9yqx/MTCOHz9w6bibsdYR8IJDsz94Bfz0f
SM50wCjAABraG1++lsLVbaQmJI7DtwaOPqSG0lyu7UKaU8BVczZ2fsIlZSHjz1r4
YGO4vIC5iEp+4UWQHf73zVeyN+5K0Qc/FhrMcvjx+jmiG6Vdyqv9nLcWIwfbt38w
qlpO+gLqRFnpUM1DvoXL9RifzN2MSebtEBP9y0gnENOguYlzrHEkOUDBJCipczS2
3d6LoX5o940W27vL6AX3EsvI6BarUd87IM30exSiSKHO6TSHR0mzAIthUBQOJ3E=
=fbmW
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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[Enigmail] How to: Use PGP for Windows PC

[Samir Nassar]

In response to some issues with using gpg4win I'd like to share part of 
Electronic Frontier Foundation's Surveillance Self-Defense guide:

How to: Use PGP for Windows PC
https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/how-use-pgp-windows-pc

It might be helpful to others on this list in setting up to use Enigmail with 
Thunderbird and GPG4Win.

Versions used in this guide: Windows: Windows 7 Ultimate; Mozilla Thunderbird 
24.6.0, Enigmail 1.7, GPG4Win 2.2.1

Last updated: 
2014-11-18

Samir

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ludwig Hügelschäfer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 04.02.15 20:36, Ian Mann wrote:
> OK looks like I have GnuPG 2.0.22 on the system now.
> 
> Do I have to tell enigmail to use that now? If so how do I manage
> that?

It may be sufficient to restart Thunderbird, but I'm not sure.

If not: You first have to know where gpg2 resides. This depends on the
flavour of the linux system you have installed. Open a command shell
window and type:

which gpg2

copy the path which is reported into

Enigmail -> Preferences -> "Override with" setting. Make sure the
checkbox left to it is set.

If everything works, you'll be prompted by "pinentry" for your
passphrase, not by enigmail itself. The pinentry used depends on your
Linux flavour.

HTH

Ludwig

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0nq0AAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+OK4QAK8FvjwH7KSmKR6sf0wOociy
b+vnmZ2LxtYNOIgUmUQ9cPX63K73GW2lt2GvR5xlLrGpiCRK5y34fbY6CsimxVBK
ERoHXO8Z15/dxgjGQDY2hcDmAQ70yZbkgmW7juNW4RvtHOpJX4HKFulkgZLDOu1D
BjHvCIia7v2lB9pdV77OyPk7y+aUTCQ6yQgWC2pteao+LcdSIxCCdKuOC7AxX2OE
ze8gNXlUnNdaBz4Dg+wUoUOsztvmrdxD9IB9iUeoxW+h3pKarMb9sGFcKC032XOT
sCF2+/46tmXS8rq3EwPLsLJTWBC++tHcucmiBLasdQ9/KC4xJHhSzmVFxU521RFP
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ASC8xA42vABZJ30pJbMtZuO3XXLP2zMtsl7tUgJ2cADEEQrPWi+5UbPwxVwd1BAM
aMcjsGMiUt6ON2Q5bRt+bz8sX039/3AbkXlOzfSPZmXMCNRBXOJ+xaOW4clqCeA+
2Q9AtRJAHHcW8Zn4NzXvt61v95Wb8c+BWk4pD1Z2wdkyCVQhsi7v+a0XoTbWsR6h
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sHCEBXPT7hy4BFmKgRT5
=FnKj
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Bob Henson]

On 04/02/2015 7:27 pm, Samir Nassar wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 04, 2015 07:16:26 PM Bob Henson wrote:
> > Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation
> > of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under
> > Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait
> > until there is a standalone "official" version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows.
>
> Did you try the Vanilla installer?
> http://files.gpg4win.org/gpg4win-vanilla-2.2.3.exe This install gnupg
> only.
>
> Samir
>
>

Hmm. I just gave it a try and it seems to be fine - however, I sent
myself a test message and when I had a look at the details it said :-

Version: GnuPG v1

All I did was changed Enigmail to use gpg2.exe instead of gpg.exe - maybe I 
need to do more than just that to get it to use v2

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Bob Henson]

On 04/02/2015 7:27 pm, Samir Nassar wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, February 04, 2015 07:16:26 PM Bob Henson wrote:
> 
> Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation
> of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under
> Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait
> until there is a standalone "official" version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows.
> 
>
> Did you try the Vanilla installer?
http://files.gpg4win.org/gpg4win-vanilla-2.2.3.exe This install gnupg only.
>

I didn't know about that - I'll give it a try.

Regards,

Bob


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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

OK looks like I have GnuPG 2.0.22 on the system now.

Do I have to tell enigmail to use that now? If so how do I manage that?

Ian


gpg2 --version
gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.22
libgcrypt 1.5.3
Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later 
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Home: ~/.gnupg
Supported algorithms:
Pubkey: RSA, ELG, DSA, ?, ?
Cypher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH,
CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256
Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2
ian@ian-GA-970A-D3:~$

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Samir Nassar]

On Wednesday, February 04, 2015 07:16:26 PM Bob Henson wrote:
> Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation
> of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under
> Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait
> until there is a standalone "official" version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows.

Did you try the Vanilla installer? 
http://files.gpg4win.org/gpg4win-vanilla-2.2.3.exe This install gnupg only.

Samir


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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Andreas Hirsch]

Bob Henson schrieb am 2015-02-04 um 20:16:
> On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
>> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
>> think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
>>
>>
> Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation
> of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under
> Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait
> until there is a standalone "official" version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows.

I agree!

Andreas

-- 
Andreas Hirsch
Klarweinstr. 5a
82467 Garmisch-Partenkirchen
++49 8821 947477
GPG PublicKey
https://mediencenter.t-online.de/auth/guest/shareToken/D96B3BA4667F2FE5101A2DEE73E8DC40E8CAE888
Fingerprint 81D6 6C24 3AA8 E250 E034 CAF5 A1E8 D5E8 806C 3CB8

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ludwig Hügelschäfer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 04.02.15 20:08, Bob Henson wrote:
> On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
>> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we
>> should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
>> 
> 
> There may be a few problems with Windows users only being able to
> get GnuPG 2.x as part of GPG4Win - that might put many people off
> using it. I'm not use how well it functions on 64 bit Windows
> systems - it certainly failed here when I tried it some time back -
> but maybe that was probably GPG4Win not GnuPG - it was very flaky.
> I can't remember what the problem was so I'll have a go at
> installing just GnuPG and see what happens - maybe all is OK now.

You'll need gpg4win, as it brings the required (and fully windows
integrated) pinentry.

gpg4win 2.23 works well on Win7 64 bit.

Ludwig

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2
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jpKzRr/O4LilGNeaZvPG
=w7St
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Bob Henson]

On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
> think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
> 
> 
Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation
of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under
Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait
until there is a standalone "official" version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows.

Regards,

Bob


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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Bob Henson]

On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
> think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
> 

There may be a few problems with Windows users only being able to get
GnuPG 2.x as part of GPG4Win - that might put many people off using it.
I'm not use how well it functions on 64 bit Windows systems - it
certainly failed here when I tried it some time back - but maybe that
was probably GPG4Win not GnuPG - it was very flaky. I can't remember
what the problem was so I'll have a go at installing just GnuPG and see
what happens - maybe all is OK now.

Regards,

Bob


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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Robert J. Hansen]

> Do I have to uninstall 1.4?

Nope.  They coexist beautifully.



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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ludwig Hügelschäfer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 04.02.15 20:02, Andreas Hirsch wrote:

> If I remember correctly, there comes a new instance of handling
> the passthrase instead of Enigmail and so my passthrase was not
> recognized.

Did your passphrase contain special characters like accent or umlauts?
If yes, please change it with 1.4 and then you can use it with 2.0.x :-)

Ludwig

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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tk1SFZsw7+aLKsvKh/yzyClgl4Ivv/dU/y4JZizgfr/pwQwEe2KBvQ6MSB5Crpt5
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EWS2tm2W/GxXDrDad1XtbYICo/l33UtTpKmpKxtMFYcm/ZajGQuPxPI/xrlE5jjp
JPugrGMdMaZHVvIEqD83XdqksYheaYW21K9TYHINL96gmFA2CBlwsXrhf/rGMRuk
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ZP1Ec99bnMZDN9jD30Gv
=U8nu
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ludwig Hügelschäfer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 04.02.15 20:00, Ian Mann wrote:
> Do I have to uninstall 1.4?

No. 2.0.x can peacefully coexist with a 1.4.x installation.

Ludwig

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0mz9AAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+UhkP/R4QirRetOY8IpCtSkkB/Asq
juqlfUOFlZI23IJk03znbHwHBm/Bp4vzaqugLJtO2IrebTQ25YmAGWrOWnMBuYTc
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hYrsQGA3pMXSA3gMeR1i
=5brE
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Andreas Hirsch]

Ludwig Hügelschäfer schrieb am 2015-02-04 um 19:58:
> On 04.02.15 19:53, Andreas Hirsch wrote:
> 
>> In the past, I tried twice to switch to GnuPG 2.x (in case of
>> setting up a new pc) and wasn't able to use my existing private key
>> anymore.
> 
> This surprises me. GnuPG 2.x understands and keeps the same formats of
> files and keys/keyrings. It can even peacefully coexist with a 1.4.x
> installation. BTDT.

If I remember correctly, there comes a new instance of handling the
passthrase instead of Enigmail and so my passthrase was not recognized.

Andreas

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Bob Williams]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/02/15 18:53, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
>> Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer
>> an Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade.
> 
> It's not necessary.  Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package
> Enigmail; thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through
> the Debian (or Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will
> automagically install GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency.
> 
> Or, you could just open a terminal window and type:
> 
> sudo apt-get install gnupg2
> 
> Either way works fine.
> 

Thank you. I was surprised because the distribution I use, openSUSE,
has shipped GnuPG version 2 for some time.

:~> gpg --version
gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.26
libgcrypt 1.6.1

Bob
- -- 
Bob Williams
System:  Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop
Distro:  openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3
Uptime:  06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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27MAoJCU+5HPgs1xL9/uTEctiQasMiHr
=lg2x
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ludwig Hügelschäfer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 04.02.15 19:58, Ludwig Hügelschäfer wrote:

> This surprises me. GnuPG 2.x understands and keeps the same formats
> of files and keys/keyrings.

Correction: 2.0.x

2.1.x is another story...

Ludwig
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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KNF/MHYDtMNimDKvoytCKWT1tzLWGunai574HPcSEhoGH7/FDJfr0ytxaMIgUCc4
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

Do I have to uninstall 1.4?

On 05/02/15 05:53, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
>> Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an
>> Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade.
> It's not necessary.  Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail;
> thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or
> Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install
> GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency.
>
> Or, you could just open a terminal window and type:
>
>  sudo apt-get install gnupg2
>
> Either way works fine.
>
>
>
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ludwig Hügelschäfer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 04.02.15 19:53, Andreas Hirsch wrote:

> In the past, I tried twice to switch to GnuPG 2.x (in case of
> setting up a new pc) and wasn't able to use my existing private key
> anymore.

This surprises me. GnuPG 2.x understands and keeps the same formats of
files and keys/keyrings. It can even peacefully coexist with a 1.4.x
installation. BTDT.

Ludwig

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

Hmm, I might give it ago. Thanks Robert.

Ian

On 05/02/15 05:53, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
>> Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an
>> Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade.
> It's not necessary.  Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail;
> thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or
> Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install
> GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency.
>
> Or, you could just open a terminal window and type:
>
>  sudo apt-get install gnupg2
>
> Either way works fine.
>
>
>
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signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Andreas Hirsch]

Hi Patrick,

Patrick Brunschwig schrieb am 2015-02-04 um 18:13:

> Please let me know if this would cause major issues that I'm not aware of.

In the past, I tried twice to switch to GnuPG 2.x (in case of setting up
a new pc) and wasn't able to use my existing private key anymore.

Andreas

-- 
Andreas Hirsch
Klarweinstr. 5a
82467 Garmisch-Partenkirchen
++49 8821 947477
GPG PublicKey
https://mediencenter.t-online.de/auth/guest/shareToken/D96B3BA4667F2FE5101A2DEE73E8DC40E8CAE888
Fingerprint 81D6 6C24 3AA8 E250 E034 CAF5 A1E8 D5E8 806C 3CB8

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Robert J. Hansen]

> Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an
> Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade.

It's not necessary.  Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail;
thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or
Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install
GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency.

Or, you could just open a terminal window and type:

 sudo apt-get install gnupg2

Either way works fine.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

Thanks for that information Lars,

Ian

On 05/02/15 05:46, Lars Noodén wrote:
> On 04.02.2015 20:07, Alexander Buchner wrote:
>> On 04.02.2015 19:00, Bob Williams wrote:
>>> I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of
>>>
>>> gpg --version?
>> I have a Ubuntu 14.10 system:
>>
>> @@@:~$ gpg --version
>> gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16
>> ...
> Ubuntu 14.10 will expire soon anyway.  The non-LTS release now have only
> a 9-month life cycle.  Coming up, 15.04 will have GnuPG version 1.4.18,
> which is still 1.4.x
>
> The current LTS desktops, 12.04 and 14.04, use 1.4.11 and 1.4.16. They
> will be around until 2017 and 2019.  A search of backports for 14.04 LTS
> shows nothing in regards to GnuPG.
>
> Regards,
> /Lars
>
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Lars Noodén]

On 04.02.2015 20:07, Alexander Buchner wrote:
> On 04.02.2015 19:00, Bob Williams wrote:
>> I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of
>>
>> gpg --version?
> 
> I have a Ubuntu 14.10 system:
> 
> @@@:~$ gpg --version
> gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16
>...

Ubuntu 14.10 will expire soon anyway.  The non-LTS release now have only
a 9-month life cycle.  Coming up, 15.04 will have GnuPG version 1.4.18,
which is still 1.4.x

The current LTS desktops, 12.04 and 14.04, use 1.4.11 and 1.4.16. They
will be around until 2017 and 2019.  A search of backports for 14.04 LTS
shows nothing in regards to GnuPG.

Regards,
/Lars

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

Yes, I don't know much about tinkering with the system. I just want to use the 
applications.

For me to upgrade GnuPG to 2.x by myself would be stressful, I would be sure to 
stuff it up Bob.

On 05/02/15 05:26, Bob Williams wrote:
> On 04/02/15 18:18, Ian Mann wrote:
> > On 05/02/15 05:00, Bob Williams wrote:
> >> On 04/02/15 17:43, Ian Mann wrote:
> >>> I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident
> >>> to install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu.
> >>
> >>> Ian
> >>
> >> I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the
> >> output of
> >>
> >> gpg --version?
> >>
> >>
> > gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16
>
>
> Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an
> Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade.
>
> Bob
>
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Bob Williams]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/02/15 18:18, Ian Mann wrote:
> On 05/02/15 05:00, Bob Williams wrote:
>> On 04/02/15 17:43, Ian Mann wrote:
>>> I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident
>>> to install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu.
>> 
>>> Ian
>> 
>> I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the
>> output of
>> 
>> gpg --version?
>> 
>> 
> gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16


Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an
Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade.

Bob
- -- 
Bob Williams
System:  Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop
Distro:  openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3
Uptime:  06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06
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Version: GnuPG v2

iEYEARECAAYFAlTSZFUACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU6LswCggS+L3VrkCAm6RAaMrOJzN1eY
wsgAniTtndTk1kL4ZhM0xq+wx372WIjv
=KPgC
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

gpg --version
gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16
Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later 
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Home: ~/.gnupg
Supported algorithms:
Pubkey: RSA, RSA-E, RSA-S, ELG-E, DSA
Cypher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH,
CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256
Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2


On 05/02/15 05:00, Bob Williams wrote:
> On 04/02/15 17:43, Ian Mann wrote:
> > I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident to
> > install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu.
>
> > Ian
>
> I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of
>
> gpg --version?
>
>
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

bin_uRbgS43DJ.bin
Description: PGP/MIME version identification


encrypted.asc
Description: OpenPGP encrypted message
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Alexander Buchner]

On 04.02.2015 19:00, Bob Williams wrote:
> I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of
> 
> gpg --version?

I have a Ubuntu 14.10 system:

@@@:~$ gpg --version
gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16
Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later

This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Home: ~/.gnupg
Supported algorithms:
Pubkey: RSA, RSA-E, RSA-S, ELG-E, DSA
Cipher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH,
CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256
Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512,



signature.asc
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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Bob Williams]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/02/15 17:43, Ian Mann wrote:
> I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident to
> install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu.
> 
> Ian

I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of

gpg --version?

- -- 
Bob Williams
System:  Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop
Distro:  openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3
Uptime:  06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06
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Version: GnuPG v2

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MwwAnijTi06O9f0sMaaznMSZ3u0aFO1a
=pg7t
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Ian Mann]

I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident to install GnuPG 
2.x it separately on Ubuntu.

Ian

On 05/02/15 04:13, Patrick Brunschwig wrote:
> We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
> think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.
>
> Reasons:
> * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven for a long
> time to be stable.
> * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense on embedded devices and computers
> with limited resources, this does not hold anymore for today's PCs.
> * We still have quite a lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and
> maintenance of Enigmail is more complex with more versions of GnuPG
> (e.g. password handling / bug 287).
>
>
> My plan is as follows:
> * Enigmail 1.8.x will still support GnuPG 1.4.x. However, if Enigmail
> detects GnuPG 1.4.x, a message will be displayed saying that GnuPG
> 1.4.x is considered deprecated and will no longer be supported in
> future major versions of Enigmail.
>
> * Enigmail 1.9.x will not support GnuPG 1.4.x anymore. We will either
> point users to a web page from where they can download GnuPG 2.x, or
> we will offer to install GnuPG 2.x directly from Enigmail (just like
> the wizard already does it). A decision for which way to go is not yet
> taken. I expect to release Enigmail 1.9 in late Q3 or Q4 2015.
>
> Please let me know if this would cause major issues that I'm not aware of.
>
> -Patrick
>
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[Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support

[Patrick Brunschwig]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should
think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x.

Reasons:
* GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven for a long
time to be stable.
* While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense on embedded devices and computers
with limited resources, this does not hold anymore for today's PCs.
* We still have quite a lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and
maintenance of Enigmail is more complex with more versions of GnuPG
(e.g. password handling / bug 287).


My plan is as follows:
* Enigmail 1.8.x will still support GnuPG 1.4.x. However, if Enigmail
detects GnuPG 1.4.x, a message will be displayed saying that GnuPG
1.4.x is considered deprecated and will no longer be supported in
future major versions of Enigmail.

* Enigmail 1.9.x will not support GnuPG 1.4.x anymore. We will either
point users to a web page from where they can download GnuPG 2.x, or
we will offer to install GnuPG 2.x directly from Enigmail (just like
the wizard already does it). A decision for which way to go is not yet
taken. I expect to release Enigmail 1.9 in late Q3 or Q4 2015.

Please let me know if this would cause major issues that I'm not aware of.

- -Patrick
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2

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f/2kGMuSSiyGgq11+lTqYtt1SPgzP+qb6/CbrtGC5gRq1IwRqCPuNSsgXs8NTjav
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Ag7mIvGjPRSGI8pCLE2ZLBzorIsM/9Drcxj8QX4Wjn82aZmGQVKjK3Fh11+LiK5O
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Wqia2iw858fg4L3OvSkq
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