Re: [E-devel] Website Table of Contents

2017-11-22 Thread Andrew Williams 
Hi,

Unfortunately I am not following what you mean by these artefacts, can you
please provide screenshots? With regards to the transparent overlay I did
see that in a browser, I reset the cache and it went away.

There is a graphical glitch whereby it /looks/ like the code div goes under
the ToC but it actually doesn't, that is just the background colour - no
content.

I will see if we can provide a way to dismiss it if you don't like the
feature.

Andy

On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 at 11:58 Carsten Haitzler  wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:29:29 + Andrew Williams 
> said:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > If you are seeing broken rendering please refresh the cache - there are
> CSS
> > changes in there that will need to be grabbed as well as the content.
>
> shift-reloaded. same story. overlaps. :)
>
> > In your screenshot I don't know what you mean by "gutter" - the screen is
> > not wide enough for it to have moved into the gutter, which it will do
> when
> > possible to make the most of the fixed-width content.
>
> between the top menu bar and content of screen thus pushing all the content
> down by the size of the nav ToC.
>
> > The sidebar is split into 2 - at the top is a navigation for that
> namespace
> > (can change per-namespace) and the Page Contents is generated based on
> the
> > headings within a page. As you say the content here can change and this
> is
> > just to get things rolling. The main objection to ToC was that it could
> not
> > look good, so I am trying to make that work after which the content could
> > be finalised. The tutorials indeed could be collapsed - but we wanted to
> > have enough content in here to make it meaningful to discuss.
>
> Well It probably would be good to collapse this as it is overlapping
> content ... or specifically allow it to collapse to get it out of the way
> when
> someone needs that content.
>
> > I don't know what you mean about "content underneath" - this does not
> cover
> > any content, it displaces it. And on a wider window it does not even
> > displace any content. We are trying to avoid dropdowns as much as
> possible,
> > as discussed in another thread they are not very discoverable etc.
>
> It overlaps the the divs with the function prototypes in them. the divs are
> going under the ToC. you can see at the bottom of the.
>
> > One main aim of this is to get some consistency and flow over the site.
> > Many, many of our pages have built in ToC or Navigation to work around
> the
> > fact that we have none so making a standard space where this is presented
> > should help a lot for those struggling to find the right documentation.
>
> I never really thought that was a good idea. Someone decided to add it in
> by
> hand. it should not have been added by hand at all. It is duplicating what
> can
> be automated. Then the only question is if it should be there at all. But
> Having it collapse would be good to get it out of the way when not needed
> or
> wanted. ALLOW it to collapse. Expand it by default. All that is is then a
> "collapse/expand" arrow/button at the bottom of the ToC to do this.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Andy
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 at 00:29 Carsten Haitzler 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:18:09 + Andrew Williams <
> a...@andywilliams.me>
> > > said:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > So I've tried to get a ToC appended to the nav sidebar and I'm not
> > > > disappointed with the result.
> > > >
> > >
> https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/display.php?image=e-5a12a60dc3d772.36151853.jpg
> > > >
> > > > If there is space the bar is static on the top right of the screen,
> if
> > > > there is not a wide enough gutter then it inlines at the top right
> of the
> > > > content.
> > >
> > > It seems this is broken (overlaps a lot of content - just by luck the
> > > content
> > > doesn't have long enough lines there to be hidden):
> > >
> > >   https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/api/class/efl/object
> > >
> > >   http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a14c363eec9d0.43575629.png
> > >
> > > It shouldn't "gutter" IMHO in this case either like on mobile like
> > > displays. I
> > > think you need a better solution. Most of that ToC IMHO is not useful
> while
> > > reading reference docs. Especially the Tutorials, Setup and APIs.
> Tutorials
> > > there is hopefully going to expand to 100's of items  making this
> pretty
> > > pointless. The Page Contents is the useful part as a "jump to this
> > > section". I
> > > assume for now most of that is "sample content" and will be
> reconsidered in
> > > future?
> > >
> > > I am thinking this should really just be a dropdown menu like Options
> etc.
> > > perhaps displayed by default? At least so I can hide it and read the
> > > content
> > > underneath?
> > >
> > > > It appears when there are 3 or more headings at level 2 and 3 - that
> > > means
> > > > we ignore top level headings (usually a page title) and expand 1
> level if
> > > > the

Re: [E-devel] Website Table of Contents

2017-11-22 Thread Carsten Haitzler 
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:29:29 + Andrew Williams  said:

> Hi,
> 
> If you are seeing broken rendering please refresh the cache - there are CSS
> changes in there that will need to be grabbed as well as the content.

shift-reloaded. same story. overlaps. :)

> In your screenshot I don't know what you mean by "gutter" - the screen is
> not wide enough for it to have moved into the gutter, which it will do when
> possible to make the most of the fixed-width content.

between the top menu bar and content of screen thus pushing all the content
down by the size of the nav ToC.

> The sidebar is split into 2 - at the top is a navigation for that namespace
> (can change per-namespace) and the Page Contents is generated based on the
> headings within a page. As you say the content here can change and this is
> just to get things rolling. The main objection to ToC was that it could not
> look good, so I am trying to make that work after which the content could
> be finalised. The tutorials indeed could be collapsed - but we wanted to
> have enough content in here to make it meaningful to discuss.

Well It probably would be good to collapse this as it is overlapping
content ... or specifically allow it to collapse to get it out of the way when
someone needs that content.

> I don't know what you mean about "content underneath" - this does not cover
> any content, it displaces it. And on a wider window it does not even
> displace any content. We are trying to avoid dropdowns as much as possible,
> as discussed in another thread they are not very discoverable etc.

It overlaps the the divs with the function prototypes in them. the divs are
going under the ToC. you can see at the bottom of the.

> One main aim of this is to get some consistency and flow over the site.
> Many, many of our pages have built in ToC or Navigation to work around the
> fact that we have none so making a standard space where this is presented
> should help a lot for those struggling to find the right documentation.

I never really thought that was a good idea. Someone decided to add it in by
hand. it should not have been added by hand at all. It is duplicating what can
be automated. Then the only question is if it should be there at all. But
Having it collapse would be good to get it out of the way when not needed or
wanted. ALLOW it to collapse. Expand it by default. All that is is then a
"collapse/expand" arrow/button at the bottom of the ToC to do this.

> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 at 00:29 Carsten Haitzler  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:18:09 + Andrew Williams 
> > said:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > So I've tried to get a ToC appended to the nav sidebar and I'm not
> > > disappointed with the result.
> > >
> > https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/display.php?image=e-5a12a60dc3d772.36151853.jpg
> > >
> > > If there is space the bar is static on the top right of the screen, if
> > > there is not a wide enough gutter then it inlines at the top right of the
> > > content.
> >
> > It seems this is broken (overlaps a lot of content - just by luck the
> > content
> > doesn't have long enough lines there to be hidden):
> >
> >   https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/api/class/efl/object
> >
> >   http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a14c363eec9d0.43575629.png
> >
> > It shouldn't "gutter" IMHO in this case either like on mobile like
> > displays. I
> > think you need a better solution. Most of that ToC IMHO is not useful while
> > reading reference docs. Especially the Tutorials, Setup and APIs. Tutorials
> > there is hopefully going to expand to 100's of items  making this pretty
> > pointless. The Page Contents is the useful part as a "jump to this
> > section". I
> > assume for now most of that is "sample content" and will be reconsidered in
> > future?
> >
> > I am thinking this should really just be a dropdown menu like Options etc.
> > perhaps displayed by default? At least so I can hide it and read the
> > content
> > underneath?
> >
> > > It appears when there are 3 or more headings at level 2 and 3 - that
> > means
> > > we ignore top level headings (usually a page title) and expand 1 level if
> > > the current top level area has child elements. Most of this is the ToC
> > > plugin in dokuwiki and works quite well.
> > >
> > > Comments welcome, plenty of opportunity to adapt it to suit our style.
> > > Andy
> > >
> > > On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 at 07:27 Carsten Haitzler 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 15:59:24 + Andrew Williams <
> > a...@andywilliams.me>
> > > > said:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > The amount of space it takes up is a stylistic issue - our template
> > > > > explicitly reserves 1/4 of the screen for a ToC which is clearly not
> > a
> > > > > requirement.
> > > >
> > > > that was my major thing about it. stylistic. :) also the original css
> > for
> > > > it
> > > > was a bit blergh and i didn't

Re: [E-devel] Website Table of Contents

2017-11-22 Thread Andrew Williams 
Hi,

If you are seeing broken rendering please refresh the cache - there are CSS
changes in there that will need to be grabbed as well as the content.

In your screenshot I don't know what you mean by "gutter" - the screen is
not wide enough for it to have moved into the gutter, which it will do when
possible to make the most of the fixed-width content.

The sidebar is split into 2 - at the top is a navigation for that namespace
(can change per-namespace) and the Page Contents is generated based on the
headings within a page. As you say the content here can change and this is
just to get things rolling. The main objection to ToC was that it could not
look good, so I am trying to make that work after which the content could
be finalised. The tutorials indeed could be collapsed - but we wanted to
have enough content in here to make it meaningful to discuss.

I don't know what you mean about "content underneath" - this does not cover
any content, it displaces it. And on a wider window it does not even
displace any content. We are trying to avoid dropdowns as much as possible,
as discussed in another thread they are not very discoverable etc.

One main aim of this is to get some consistency and flow over the site.
Many, many of our pages have built in ToC or Navigation to work around the
fact that we have none so making a standard space where this is presented
should help a lot for those struggling to find the right documentation.

Thanks,
Andy

On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 at 00:29 Carsten Haitzler  wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:18:09 + Andrew Williams 
> said:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > So I've tried to get a ToC appended to the nav sidebar and I'm not
> > disappointed with the result.
> >
> https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/display.php?image=e-5a12a60dc3d772.36151853.jpg
> >
> > If there is space the bar is static on the top right of the screen, if
> > there is not a wide enough gutter then it inlines at the top right of the
> > content.
>
> It seems this is broken (overlaps a lot of content - just by luck the
> content
> doesn't have long enough lines there to be hidden):
>
>   https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/api/class/efl/object
>
>   http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a14c363eec9d0.43575629.png
>
> It shouldn't "gutter" IMHO in this case either like on mobile like
> displays. I
> think you need a better solution. Most of that ToC IMHO is not useful while
> reading reference docs. Especially the Tutorials, Setup and APIs. Tutorials
> there is hopefully going to expand to 100's of items  making this pretty
> pointless. The Page Contents is the useful part as a "jump to this
> section". I
> assume for now most of that is "sample content" and will be reconsidered in
> future?
>
> I am thinking this should really just be a dropdown menu like Options etc.
> perhaps displayed by default? At least so I can hide it and read the
> content
> underneath?
>
> > It appears when there are 3 or more headings at level 2 and 3 - that
> means
> > we ignore top level headings (usually a page title) and expand 1 level if
> > the current top level area has child elements. Most of this is the ToC
> > plugin in dokuwiki and works quite well.
> >
> > Comments welcome, plenty of opportunity to adapt it to suit our style.
> > Andy
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 at 07:27 Carsten Haitzler 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 15:59:24 + Andrew Williams <
> a...@andywilliams.me>
> > > said:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > The amount of space it takes up is a stylistic issue - our template
> > > > explicitly reserves 1/4 of the screen for a ToC which is clearly not
> a
> > > > requirement.
> > >
> > > that was my major thing about it. stylistic. :) also the original css
> for
> > > it
> > > was a bit blergh and i didn't feel like fixing it up to be nicer so
> > > removing was
> > > less work. that's why i didnt do the TOC though. if you're going to do
> > > one...
> > > do it well. :)
> > >
> > > > Additionally of concern is that many of our pages (specifically the
> > > program
> > > > guide) have (manually entered) contents areas that are within the
> page
> > > > content.
> > > >
> https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/legacy/program_guide/eina/arrays
> > >
> > > That's kind of odd... I'd just remove it IMHO... :)
> > >
> > > > As part of this documentation effort we are seeing navigation as an
> area
> > > in
> > > > which we are significantly lacking so I think we can spend some time
> > > fixing
> > > > it.
> > > > I am a little unsure as to whether the main objection here is that
> we see
> > > > ToC as a bad thing or if we just did not find a way to include it
> neatly
> > > in
> > > > our layout.
> > >
> > > a little of the first but mostly the second. if you need a TOC because
> the
> > > page
> > > is so big ... i kind of think it should be split up... :)
> > >
> > > > If it were possible to make it well presented would people be
> generally
> > > in
> > > >

Re: [E-devel] Website Table of Contents

2017-11-21 Thread Carsten Haitzler 
On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:18:09 + Andrew Williams  said:

> Hi,
> 
> So I've tried to get a ToC appended to the nav sidebar and I'm not
> disappointed with the result.
> https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/display.php?image=e-5a12a60dc3d772.36151853.jpg
> 
> If there is space the bar is static on the top right of the screen, if
> there is not a wide enough gutter then it inlines at the top right of the
> content.

It seems this is broken (overlaps a lot of content - just by luck the content
doesn't have long enough lines there to be hidden):

  https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/api/class/efl/object

  http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a14c363eec9d0.43575629.png

It shouldn't "gutter" IMHO in this case either like on mobile like displays. I
think you need a better solution. Most of that ToC IMHO is not useful while
reading reference docs. Especially the Tutorials, Setup and APIs. Tutorials
there is hopefully going to expand to 100's of items  making this pretty
pointless. The Page Contents is the useful part as a "jump to this section". I
assume for now most of that is "sample content" and will be reconsidered in
future?

I am thinking this should really just be a dropdown menu like Options etc.
perhaps displayed by default? At least so I can hide it and read the content
underneath?

> It appears when there are 3 or more headings at level 2 and 3 - that means
> we ignore top level headings (usually a page title) and expand 1 level if
> the current top level area has child elements. Most of this is the ToC
> plugin in dokuwiki and works quite well.
> 
> Comments welcome, plenty of opportunity to adapt it to suit our style.
> Andy
> 
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 at 07:27 Carsten Haitzler  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 15:59:24 + Andrew Williams 
> > said:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The amount of space it takes up is a stylistic issue - our template
> > > explicitly reserves 1/4 of the screen for a ToC which is clearly not a
> > > requirement.
> >
> > that was my major thing about it. stylistic. :) also the original css for
> > it
> > was a bit blergh and i didn't feel like fixing it up to be nicer so
> > removing was
> > less work. that's why i didnt do the TOC though. if you're going to do
> > one...
> > do it well. :)
> >
> > > Additionally of concern is that many of our pages (specifically the
> > program
> > > guide) have (manually entered) contents areas that are within the page
> > > content.
> > > https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/legacy/program_guide/eina/arrays
> >
> > That's kind of odd... I'd just remove it IMHO... :)
> >
> > > As part of this documentation effort we are seeing navigation as an area
> > in
> > > which we are significantly lacking so I think we can spend some time
> > fixing
> > > it.
> > > I am a little unsure as to whether the main objection here is that we see
> > > ToC as a bad thing or if we just did not find a way to include it neatly
> > in
> > > our layout.
> >
> > a little of the first but mostly the second. if you need a TOC because the
> > page
> > is so big ... i kind of think it should be split up... :)
> >
> > > If it were possible to make it well presented would people be generally
> > in
> > > favour of moving the ToCs into a standard (sidebar?) area so, where pages
> > > need it, we can have the contents presented in a standard form (whilst
> > > being auto generated)?
> >
> > see the first above :)
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 at 12:51 Carsten Haitzler 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:47:45 + Andrew Williams <
> > a...@andywilliams.me>
> > > > said:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > With some of the examples in our new documentation there is a lot of
> > > > > content and there was a request to generate a table of contents.
> > > > > This feature has been turned off on our wiki and I wondered how
> > people
> > > > > would feel about us turning this back on. With the current styling it
> > > > looks
> > > > > like this screenshot:
> > > > > https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a00adba813593.05237914.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm... My take is that I don't like it. Dokuwiki by default had a TOC
> > and
> > > > I
> > > > actually turned it off it. It took up too much horizontal space in most
> > > > places.
> > > > it comes off badly when your browser windows are not maximized or on
> > > > portrait
> > > > screens (tablets, phones)... so that is why I did this.
> > > >
> > > > Making pages too wide (expand so they fill a maximize screen) generally
> > > > makes
> > > > line reading harder (there is a reason newspapers etc. use narrow
> > > > columns), thus
> > > > why limiting the width of content tended to make for nicer
> > presentation.
> > > > And
> > > > dokuwiki was all about presenting the front of "enlightenment.org"
> > nicely
> > > > to
> > > > the world, so that's why I limited the width. I wasn't going to

Re: [E-devel] Website Table of Contents

2017-11-20 Thread Andrew Williams 
Hi,

So I've tried to get a ToC appended to the nav sidebar and I'm not
disappointed with the result.
https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/display.php?image=e-5a12a60dc3d772.36151853.jpg

If there is space the bar is static on the top right of the screen, if
there is not a wide enough gutter then it inlines at the top right of the
content.
It appears when there are 3 or more headings at level 2 and 3 - that means
we ignore top level headings (usually a page title) and expand 1 level if
the current top level area has child elements. Most of this is the ToC
plugin in dokuwiki and works quite well.

Comments welcome, plenty of opportunity to adapt it to suit our style.
Andy

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 at 07:27 Carsten Haitzler  wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 15:59:24 + Andrew Williams 
> said:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > The amount of space it takes up is a stylistic issue - our template
> > explicitly reserves 1/4 of the screen for a ToC which is clearly not a
> > requirement.
>
> that was my major thing about it. stylistic. :) also the original css for
> it
> was a bit blergh and i didn't feel like fixing it up to be nicer so
> removing was
> less work. that's why i didnt do the TOC though. if you're going to do
> one...
> do it well. :)
>
> > Additionally of concern is that many of our pages (specifically the
> program
> > guide) have (manually entered) contents areas that are within the page
> > content.
> > https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/legacy/program_guide/eina/arrays
>
> That's kind of odd... I'd just remove it IMHO... :)
>
> > As part of this documentation effort we are seeing navigation as an area
> in
> > which we are significantly lacking so I think we can spend some time
> fixing
> > it.
> > I am a little unsure as to whether the main objection here is that we see
> > ToC as a bad thing or if we just did not find a way to include it neatly
> in
> > our layout.
>
> a little of the first but mostly the second. if you need a TOC because the
> page
> is so big ... i kind of think it should be split up... :)
>
> > If it were possible to make it well presented would people be generally
> in
> > favour of moving the ToCs into a standard (sidebar?) area so, where pages
> > need it, we can have the contents presented in a standard form (whilst
> > being auto generated)?
>
> see the first above :)
>
> > Thanks,
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 at 12:51 Carsten Haitzler 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:47:45 + Andrew Williams <
> a...@andywilliams.me>
> > > said:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > With some of the examples in our new documentation there is a lot of
> > > > content and there was a request to generate a table of contents.
> > > > This feature has been turned off on our wiki and I wondered how
> people
> > > > would feel about us turning this back on. With the current styling it
> > > looks
> > > > like this screenshot:
> > > > https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a00adba813593.05237914.jpg
> > >
> > > Hmmm... My take is that I don't like it. Dokuwiki by default had a TOC
> and
> > > I
> > > actually turned it off it. It took up too much horizontal space in most
> > > places.
> > > it comes off badly when your browser windows are not maximized or on
> > > portrait
> > > screens (tablets, phones)... so that is why I did this.
> > >
> > > Making pages too wide (expand so they fill a maximize screen) generally
> > > makes
> > > line reading harder (there is a reason newspapers etc. use narrow
> > > columns), thus
> > > why limiting the width of content tended to make for nicer
> presentation.
> > > And
> > > dokuwiki was all about presenting the front of "enlightenment.org"
> nicely
> > > to
> > > the world, so that's why I limited the width. I wasn't going to spend
> > > unlimited
> > > time on doing the www layout, design and content so I had to make
> > > compromises
> > > of work vs result. If i could get css/whatever to columnize layout
> somehow
> > > nicely across multiple screen sizes/types in dokuwiki it may have been
> a
> > > better
> > > solution. But time and effort.
> > >
> > > Anyway - that's why i did it and what i think about the TOC thing.
> > >
> > > > Frustratingly it's a global config, though it can be turned off on a
> > > > per-page basis. We can tweak what is included (again globally) but I
> > > > thought I would get a feeling for whether anyone felt strongly about
> this
> > >
> > > That was part of the issue and why I just turned it off as I thought
> it was
> > > more pain than good (as above) for much of the site. I generally think
> if
> > > your
> > > page is so long you need a TOC... perhaps you should split it up into
> > > multiple
> > > pages? :)
> > >
> > > My thoughts on it anyway...
> > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Andy
> > > > --
> > > > http://andywilliams.me
> > > > http://ajwillia.ms
> > > >
> > >
> --
> > > >

Re: [E-devel] Website Table of Contents

2017-11-07 Thread Carsten Haitzler 
On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 15:59:24 + Andrew Williams  said:

> Hi,
> 
> The amount of space it takes up is a stylistic issue - our template
> explicitly reserves 1/4 of the screen for a ToC which is clearly not a
> requirement.

that was my major thing about it. stylistic. :) also the original css for it
was a bit blergh and i didn't feel like fixing it up to be nicer so removing was
less work. that's why i didnt do the TOC though. if you're going to do one...
do it well. :)

> Additionally of concern is that many of our pages (specifically the program
> guide) have (manually entered) contents areas that are within the page
> content.
> https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/legacy/program_guide/eina/arrays

That's kind of odd... I'd just remove it IMHO... :)

> As part of this documentation effort we are seeing navigation as an area in
> which we are significantly lacking so I think we can spend some time fixing
> it.
> I am a little unsure as to whether the main objection here is that we see
> ToC as a bad thing or if we just did not find a way to include it neatly in
> our layout.

a little of the first but mostly the second. if you need a TOC because the page
is so big ... i kind of think it should be split up... :)

> If it were possible to make it well presented would people be generally in
> favour of moving the ToCs into a standard (sidebar?) area so, where pages
> need it, we can have the contents presented in a standard form (whilst
> being auto generated)?

see the first above :)

> Thanks,
> Andrew
> 
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 at 12:51 Carsten Haitzler  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:47:45 + Andrew Williams 
> > said:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > With some of the examples in our new documentation there is a lot of
> > > content and there was a request to generate a table of contents.
> > > This feature has been turned off on our wiki and I wondered how people
> > > would feel about us turning this back on. With the current styling it
> > looks
> > > like this screenshot:
> > > https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a00adba813593.05237914.jpg
> >
> > Hmmm... My take is that I don't like it. Dokuwiki by default had a TOC and
> > I
> > actually turned it off it. It took up too much horizontal space in most
> > places.
> > it comes off badly when your browser windows are not maximized or on
> > portrait
> > screens (tablets, phones)... so that is why I did this.
> >
> > Making pages too wide (expand so they fill a maximize screen) generally
> > makes
> > line reading harder (there is a reason newspapers etc. use narrow
> > columns), thus
> > why limiting the width of content tended to make for nicer presentation.
> > And
> > dokuwiki was all about presenting the front of "enlightenment.org" nicely
> > to
> > the world, so that's why I limited the width. I wasn't going to spend
> > unlimited
> > time on doing the www layout, design and content so I had to make
> > compromises
> > of work vs result. If i could get css/whatever to columnize layout somehow
> > nicely across multiple screen sizes/types in dokuwiki it may have been a
> > better
> > solution. But time and effort.
> >
> > Anyway - that's why i did it and what i think about the TOC thing.
> >
> > > Frustratingly it's a global config, though it can be turned off on a
> > > per-page basis. We can tweak what is included (again globally) but I
> > > thought I would get a feeling for whether anyone felt strongly about this
> >
> > That was part of the issue and why I just turned it off as I thought it was
> > more pain than good (as above) for much of the site. I generally think if
> > your
> > page is so long you need a TOC... perhaps you should split it up into
> > multiple
> > pages? :)
> >
> > My thoughts on it anyway...
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Andy
> > > --
> > > http://andywilliams.me
> > > http://ajwillia.ms
> > >
> > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > enlightenment-devel mailing list
> > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
> > Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com
> >
> > --
> http://andywilliams.me
> http://ajwillia.ms
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> enlightenment-devel mailing list
> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> 


-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - "I

Re: [E-devel] Website Table of Contents

2017-11-07 Thread Andrew Williams 
Hi,

The amount of space it takes up is a stylistic issue - our template
explicitly reserves 1/4 of the screen for a ToC which is clearly not a
requirement.
Additionally of concern is that many of our pages (specifically the program
guide) have (manually entered) contents areas that are within the page
content.
https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/legacy/program_guide/eina/arrays

As part of this documentation effort we are seeing navigation as an area in
which we are significantly lacking so I think we can spend some time fixing
it.
I am a little unsure as to whether the main objection here is that we see
ToC as a bad thing or if we just did not find a way to include it neatly in
our layout.
If it were possible to make it well presented would people be generally in
favour of moving the ToCs into a standard (sidebar?) area so, where pages
need it, we can have the contents presented in a standard form (whilst
being auto generated)?

Thanks,
Andrew

On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 at 12:51 Carsten Haitzler  wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:47:45 + Andrew Williams 
> said:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > With some of the examples in our new documentation there is a lot of
> > content and there was a request to generate a table of contents.
> > This feature has been turned off on our wiki and I wondered how people
> > would feel about us turning this back on. With the current styling it
> looks
> > like this screenshot:
> > https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a00adba813593.05237914.jpg
>
> Hmmm... My take is that I don't like it. Dokuwiki by default had a TOC and
> I
> actually turned it off it. It took up too much horizontal space in most
> places.
> it comes off badly when your browser windows are not maximized or on
> portrait
> screens (tablets, phones)... so that is why I did this.
>
> Making pages too wide (expand so they fill a maximize screen) generally
> makes
> line reading harder (there is a reason newspapers etc. use narrow
> columns), thus
> why limiting the width of content tended to make for nicer presentation.
> And
> dokuwiki was all about presenting the front of "enlightenment.org" nicely
> to
> the world, so that's why I limited the width. I wasn't going to spend
> unlimited
> time on doing the www layout, design and content so I had to make
> compromises
> of work vs result. If i could get css/whatever to columnize layout somehow
> nicely across multiple screen sizes/types in dokuwiki it may have been a
> better
> solution. But time and effort.
>
> Anyway - that's why i did it and what i think about the TOC thing.
>
> > Frustratingly it's a global config, though it can be turned off on a
> > per-page basis. We can tweak what is included (again globally) but I
> > thought I would get a feeling for whether anyone felt strongly about this
>
> That was part of the issue and why I just turned it off as I thought it was
> more pain than good (as above) for much of the site. I generally think if
> your
> page is so long you need a TOC... perhaps you should split it up into
> multiple
> pages? :)
>
> My thoughts on it anyway...
>
> > Thanks,
> > Andy
> > --
> > http://andywilliams.me
> > http://ajwillia.ms
> >
> --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > enlightenment-devel mailing list
> > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> >
>
>
> --
> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
> Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com
>
> --
http://andywilliams.me
http://ajwillia.ms
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
enlightenment-devel mailing list
enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel

Re: [E-devel] Website Table of Contents

2017-11-07 Thread Carsten Haitzler 
On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:47:45 + Andrew Williams  said:

> Hi,
> 
> With some of the examples in our new documentation there is a lot of
> content and there was a request to generate a table of contents.
> This feature has been turned off on our wiki and I wondered how people
> would feel about us turning this back on. With the current styling it looks
> like this screenshot:
> https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-5a00adba813593.05237914.jpg

Hmmm... My take is that I don't like it. Dokuwiki by default had a TOC and I
actually turned it off it. It took up too much horizontal space in most places.
it comes off badly when your browser windows are not maximized or on portrait
screens (tablets, phones)... so that is why I did this.

Making pages too wide (expand so they fill a maximize screen) generally makes
line reading harder (there is a reason newspapers etc. use narrow columns), thus
why limiting the width of content tended to make for nicer presentation. And
dokuwiki was all about presenting the front of "enlightenment.org" nicely to
the world, so that's why I limited the width. I wasn't going to spend unlimited
time on doing the www layout, design and content so I had to make compromises
of work vs result. If i could get css/whatever to columnize layout somehow
nicely across multiple screen sizes/types in dokuwiki it may have been a better
solution. But time and effort.

Anyway - that's why i did it and what i think about the TOC thing.

> Frustratingly it's a global config, though it can be turned off on a
> per-page basis. We can tweak what is included (again globally) but I
> thought I would get a feeling for whether anyone felt strongly about this

That was part of the issue and why I just turned it off as I thought it was
more pain than good (as above) for much of the site. I generally think if your
page is so long you need a TOC... perhaps you should split it up into multiple
pages? :)

My thoughts on it anyway...

> Thanks,
> Andy
> -- 
> http://andywilliams.me
> http://ajwillia.ms
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> enlightenment-devel mailing list
> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> 


-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
enlightenment-devel mailing list
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel