date:20150523

[EVDL] Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid

2015-05-23 Thread m gol via EV

Hello

I hope all is OK out there. I have not posted in a while.

I was curious about obtaining a Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid, and upgrading the
battery.

Has anyone looked into this?

It is a 100volt, NiMH battery I think. 600Whr... pretty tiny.
Can do One mile supposedly on the battery at 25 mph

The car weighs 3500 pounds.

Perhaps someone has figured what is needed to upgrade to a larger Li-ion
battery?

Thanks!

Michael Golub
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[EVDL] EVLN: Norled Ampere e-ferry.no with two 450kW e-motors

2015-05-23 Thread brucedp5 via EV

% Uses hydro-powered grid charged pier li-ion packs> charge li-ion e-ferry
pack at each side> only takes 10min > 60% savedon fuel co$t$ & huge
reduction on pollution %

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/worlds-first-electrical-car-ferry-in-operation
[Photos] World's First Electrical Car Ferry in Operation
By MarEx 2015-05-19

[images
http://www.maritime-executive.com/media/images/article/Photos/Vessels_Small/Cropped/ampere%20with%20snow%2016x9.jpg
Electric Car Ferry

http://www.maritime-executive.com/media/images/ampere%20loading.jpg

http://www.maritime-executive.com/media/images/corvus%20batteries.jpg

http://www.maritime-executive.com/media/images/control%20panel.jpg
(EVSE)

http://www.maritime-executive.com/media/images/charging%20while%20waiting.jpg

http://www.maritime-executive.com/media/images/charging%20wires.jpg
(coupler)
]

The world’s first electrical car and passenger ferry powered by batteries
has entered service in Norway. The ferry only uses 150 kWh per route, which
corresponds to three days use of electricity in a standard Norwegian
household.

Built in conjunction with shipbuilder Fjellstrand, Siemens installed the
complete electric propulsion system and put up charging stations with
lithium-ion batteries which are charged from hydro power. With the change to
battery, shipowner Norled is reducing the cost of fuel by up to 60 percent.

The Norled ferry Ampere represents a milestone on the road to operating
completely emission-free ferries along Norway’s long coastline, with at
least 50 other routes currently able to sustain battery-operated vessels.

Because the power grid in the region is relatively weak, Siemens and Norled
decided to install three battery packs: one lithium-ion battery on board the
ferry, and one at each pier to serve as a buffer. The 260-kWh-units supply
electricity to the ferry while it waits. Afterward, the battery slowly
recoups all of this energy from the grid until the ship comes back again to
drop off passengers and recharge.

Charging stations are housed in small buildings about the size of
newsstands. The ship’s onboard batteries are recharged directly from the
grid at night when the ferry is not in use. Each battery pack corresponds to
the effect of 1600 standard car batteries.

The Norled ferry will consume around two million kWh per year, whereas a
traditional diesel ferry consumes at least one million liters of diesel a
year and emits 570 tons of carbon dioxide and 15 metric tons of nitrogen
oxides.

“We are proud to operate the world’s first electric ferry”, says Sigvald
Breivik, Technical director of Norled. “Siemens has been a great partner in
finding innovative and sustainable solutions for our environment.”

On board the ferry, Siemens installed its electric propulsion system
BlueDrive PlusC. It includes a battery and steering system, thruster control
for the propellers, an energy management system and an integrated alarm
system. The integrated automation systems control and monitor the
machineries and auxiliaries on the ferry and are connected via Profibus to
all other subsystems.

“We are both optimistic and excited about this technology and how it will
help shape the future of environmentally friendly maritime technology,” says
Mario Azar, CEO of the Siemens Business Unit Oil & Gas and Marine. “We were
pleased to apply our expertise in this field including electric propulsion
systems to such a worthwhile project.”

Unlike many electric cars, the emission-free ferry was developed from the
ground up. The ferry, which is 80 meters long and 20 meters wide, is driven
by two electric motors, each with an output of 450 kilowatts. It is made
exclusively of light aluminum rather than the steel normally used in
shipbuilding. This makes the ferry only half as heavy as a conventional
ferry, despite its ten ton batteries and a capacity for 360 passengers and
120 vehicles. An aluminum hull also has double the lifetime as steel hull,
which leads to lower maintenance costs.

Ship owner Norled operates on the ferry link across Sognefjord between Lavik
and Oppedal, Norway. The fully electric ferry travels six kilometers across
the fjord 34 times a day, with each trip taking around 20 minutes.

The unique solution is a result of a competition that Ministry of Transport
and Communications and the Norwegian Public Roads Administration launched in
2010. Batteries are expected to become considerably more efficient and less
expensive in the next few years, which tip the scales further away from
diesel as the most popular fuel source.

The first electric car and passenger ferry in the world, equipped by Siemens
in cooperation with shipbuilder Fjellstrand, has been taken into operation.
With three battery packs, one on board and one at each pier, it functions
completely emission free.

With its 80 meter length and 20 meters width, the ferry transports up to 120
cars and 360 passengers. It is made exclusively of light aluminum rather
than the steel normally u

[EVDL] EVLN: Twizy 'Twambulance' EV converted to an Urban-EMS Ambulance

2015-05-23 Thread brucedp5 via EV



http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/ambulances/articles/2172602-Tiny-electric-car-redesigned-to-be-a-Twambulance/
Tiny electric car redesigned to be a 'Twambulance'
By James Brodie  Top Gear  [15 Apr 2015]

[images
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCodJN2WMAA7u7g.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCodJR6WAAEJpie.jpg


tweet
https://twitter.com/EHcars/status/588314748162289664
Electric&Hybrid Cars @EHcars
(Turkish>translate.google>English
Perfect for fast response and narrow streets> 100% electric Twizy Cargo
Ambulance #TWIZY #elektrikliotomobil
)
Hizli müdahale ve dar sokaklar için biçilmis kaftan> %100 elektrikli Twizy
Cargo Ambulance #TWIZY #ElektrikliOtomobil
5:15 AM - 15 Apr 2015
]

Renault Twizy Cargo is platform for electrical-vehicle to bring emergency
care in busy, congested areas before ambulance arrives

Ambulances do a wonderful job, but the necessity of transporting broken
humans means they're generally too bulky to squeeze their way to
off-the-beaten-track trouble.

Help is at hand, though, in the shape of an ambulance version of the Renault
Twizy. Yes, really.

The ambulance uses the Twizy Cargo as a starting block, the van-like variant
that ditches the passenger seat for a 180-litre cargo deck.
[© ems1.com]



http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/renault-twizy-ambulance-2015-04-15
James Brodie  15 April 2015 
This is a Renault Twizy ambulance
Oh yes. France’s tiny electric pod joins the emergency services. It's the
Twambulance!

[images
http://www.topgear.com/uk/imageresize/image.jpg?OriginalImageUrl=%2fuk%2fassets%2fcms%2f7d1e4ddd-f2c2-4d32-b285-c7c6b205571d%2fLarge+Image.jpg
Twizy ambulance

http://www.topgear.com/uk/imageresize/image.jpg?OriginalImageUrl=%2fuk%2fassets%2fcms%2f7d1e4ddd-f2c2-4d32-b285-c7c6b205571d%2fLarge+Image+2.jpg

http://www.topgear.com/uk/imageresize/image.jpg?OriginalImageUrl=%2fuk%2fassets%2fcms%2f7d1e4ddd-f2c2-4d32-b285-c7c6b205571d%2fLarge+Image+3.jpg
]

Ambulances do a wonderful job, but the necessity of transporting broken
humans means they're generally too bulky to squeeze their way to
off-the-beaten-track trouble.

Help is at hand, though, in the shape of an ambulance version of the Renault
Twizy. Yes, really.

The ambulance uses the Twizy Cargo as a starting block, the van-like variant
that ditches the passenger seat for a 180-litre cargo deck.

That means space for an assortment of potentially life-saving equipment.
Ambulance crafting company M&L then gives the Twizy an A&E makeover,
applying hi-vis livery and sirens. Quite what the sirens do to the Twizy's
62-mile electric range could be a minor concern, though.

We're told the Twambulance is rather specifically aimed to work "up and down
a busy coastal town's beach front," administering essential emergency
treatment, while a ‘real' ambulance presumably winds its way through the
crowds.

That's a far more ambitious role than first outlined by Renault, who stated
the Twizy Cargo was aimed at inner city pizza deliveries. Now, though, the
Twizy is capable of delivering health-debilitating food and providing the
necessary medical care that follows.

This isn't the first time we've seen a Twizy given a makeover. Back in 2013,
Renault shoehorned in a KERS unit from its 2011-spec F1 engine to create the
100bhp Twizy F1, shod with slicks from a Formula Renault car and capable of
0-62mph in under seven seconds. A handy future modification if the response
times from the 17bhp Twambulance aren't up to scratch...
[© topgear.com]




For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/05/20/connecticut-cheapr-ev-phev-h2-incentive/
First-gen Chevy Volt doesn't qualify for CT's new max EV rebate

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fiat-chrysler-to-use-aluminum-electric-motors-to-boost-fuel-economy-1432127520
CEO considering an e-motor 4Grand Cherokee& Town&Country minivan pih
http://blog.caranddriver.com/2017-chrysler-town-country-may-get-electric-motor-based-awd-option/

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3197746-russia-rare-earth-element-production-will-grow
Russian Rare Earth Element Production seek$ 2Grow> China competion

http://evfleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/May/British-Gas-deploys-electric-shuttle-service/0438019935
British Gas deploys 2 MBenz E-CELL Traveliner electric shuttles

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098372_german-state-to-test-city-eco-lanes-for-cleanest-cars-carpools
German “Umweltstreifen” (eco lane) Testing> For EVs &Cleanest-ice

http://thecorknews.ie/articles/it’s-electric-18745
L2 eCar EVSE in Cork.uk, help from DoT regs

http://www.issaquahreporter.com/news/304151201.html
EVSE @Big Rock Park WA, 20 trees planted for the four trees removed
+
EVLN: Plugin buyers mainly seek a less costly ride


{brucedp.150m.com}



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[EVDL] EVLN: Plugin buyers primarily seek a less costly ride

2015-05-23 Thread brucedp5 via EV

http://ecomento.com/2015/05/18/electric-car-buyers-are-bargain-hunters-study/
Electric car buyers are bargain hunters: Study
May 18, 2015 |

According to a study by TrueCar, electric car buyers are bargain hunters
first and environmental activists second. They are also younger than average
and wealthier, too.

TrueCar looked most closely at the Ford Focus. For the conventional Focus,
buyers are 46 years old on average and have a household income of $77,000 a
year. But for Focus Electric buyers, the average age is 43 with a household
income of $199,000. That’s according to TrueCar President John Krafcik.

82% of Focus Electric buyers said generous rebates and incentives were the
main reason for their purchase. TrueCar says that proves wealthy people have
a sharper eye for a bargain than ordinary people. “These are really affluent
folks,” says Krafcik. “It’s their psyche.”

Comparing Fiat 500 buyers with Fiat 500e buyers showed similar trends. The
average person who bought a conventional 500 was age 47 with a household
income of $73,000 a year. The 500e attracts buyers with an average age of 45
and annual income of $145,000. 52% of 500 buyers were lured by getting a
good deal. Among 500e buyers, that number jumped to 67%.

The perfect example of how incentives can influence savvy shoppers occurred
earlier this year when a noted San Francisco car enthusiast figured out how
he could put a number of incentives together to lease a Fiat 500e for only
$82.75 a month. He told a few friends and they all told a few friends.
Within a week, more than 100 new 500e’s had moved out of showrooms and onto
Bay Area streets.

TrueCar’s findings agree with those from a 2012 study by the Electric
Vehicle Information Exchange, which found EV owners were primarily “very
well educated, upper-middle-class white men in their early 50s with ideal
living situations for EV charging.”

That doesn’t bode well for manufacturers who hope electric cars will soon be
selling by the millions rather than the thousands. There just aren’t that
many very well educated upper middle class white men in their early 50’s out
there.

It’s also bad news for governments that hope electric cars will soon be the
vehicle of choice for most people. The findings might cause some to question
the wisdom of the $7,500 federal tax credit available to US citizens. Are
the taxpayers getting good value for their money or just helping wealthy
people get wealthier?

Ron Cogan, publisher of the GreenCarJournal, says the electric owners tend
to break down in groups. Some are environmental do-gooders who may be poor
but are out to save the planet. “They are doing right by the environment,”
he says. Others are rich people looking for a deal on a second or third car.
With a cheap lease, they can use it to tool around town while the Bentley
stays home in the garage.

The good news for electric car advocates is that the studies by TrueCar and
the Electric Vehicle Information Exchange may be flawed. Ford sold 18,100 of
its conventional Focus cars last month but only 124 Focus Electrics.
[© ecomento.com]

For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/05/20/connecticut-cheapr-ev-phev-h2-incentive/
First-gen Chevy Volt doesn't qualify for CT's new max EV rebate

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fiat-chrysler-to-use-aluminum-electric-motors-to-boost-fuel-economy-1432127520
CEO considering an e-motor 4Grand Cherokee& Town&Country minivan pih
http://blog.caranddriver.com/2017-chrysler-town-country-may-get-electric-motor-based-awd-option/

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3197746-russia-rare-earth-element-production-will-grow
Russian Rare Earth Element Production seek$ 2Grow> China competion

http://evfleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/May/British-Gas-deploys-electric-shuttle-service/0438019935
British Gas deploys 2 MBenz E-CELL Traveliner electric shuttles

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098372_german-state-to-test-city-eco-lanes-for-cleanest-cars-carpools
German “Umweltstreifen” (eco lane) Testing> For EVs &Cleanest-ice

http://thecorknews.ie/articles/it’s-electric-18745
L2 eCar EVSE in Cork.uk, help from DoT regs

http://www.issaquahreporter.com/news/304151201.html
EVSE @Big Rock Park WA, 20 trees planted for the four trees removed
+
EVLN: Twizy 'Twambulance' EV redesigned as an Urban-EMS Ambulance

{brucedp.150m.com}

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[EVDL] 3D-Printed Smartphone-Controlled e-Skateboard tested @Pier9 SF-CA (v)

2015-05-23 Thread brucedp5 via EV



http://3dprint.com/65209/faraday-electric-skateboard/
Smartphone Controlled Electric Skateboard 3D Printed at Autodesk’s Pier 9
by Scott J Grunewald · May 14, 2015

[images  
http://3dprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/3dp_faraday_machine_front.jpg

http://3dprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/850.png

http://3dprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/3dp_faradaymotion_app.png
The app used to control the skateboard


video  flash
(Faraday Motion’s latest 3D printed prototype being tested in front of
Autodesk’s Pier 9 location in San Francisco)
]

Skateboards have long been the transportation choice of many a car-less
teenager, but now that an entire generation of skaters have grown into
adulthood many of them have brought their boards along with them. For
millions of pedestrians, a skateboard is a fun and logical option to
traverse long distances quickly and avoid the frustrations of gridlocked
traffic or overcrowded and inefficient public transportation. So it was only
a matter of time before there were attempts to improve or enhance the
skateboard riding experience, and some of those enhancements could possibly
lead to some rather incredible advances for people dependent on mobility
assistance devices.

Electric skateboards aren’t a new product–they have been around for
years–however, they can sometimes be difficult to control. Often they are
made for sportsmen and professional riders and consist of little more than a
board with a small motor attached to it. That can be dangerous for someone
who is new or only moderately skilled at riding a board, and in fact many
municipalities have even banned the devices on city streets and sidewalks.

Faraday Motion is a collection of engineers, makers, and researchers from
Denmark, Poland, Sweden, and the US who want innovate the personal mobility
device. They are currently developing an open platform, modular personal
electric vehicle that can be moved via a motion control smartphone app. The
prototype is based on a standard skateboard, but they have completely
stripped most of it away and loaded it with small motors and an entire array
of new, 3D printed parts and components. A simple smartphone application
controls the device’s speed and direction and based on the rider’s hand
movements, and the maximum speed can be preset before the board is used.

In 2013, the head of Faraday Motion’s business strategy and software team,
Sune Pedersen, was dealing with an old knee injury and continuing pain and
mobility issues, so he decided to see if he could create a new type of urban
transportation. He based his prototype on components designed in Tinkercad
and used an Onda Motion Core skateboard for its oversized wheels and durable
composite plastic body. While a skateboard may not be the ideal mobility
assistance device, the technology being developed can be implemented in a
variety of assistance devices.

“I do not think that an electric skateboard is the perfect way of
transportation for everyone. But the technology we are using; compact
batteries, high power motors and advanced computers with intelligent
software interacting with a range of sensors and user inputs, can be applied
to a range of totally different personal transportation devices not yet seen
before. 3d printing combined with our technology will make it easy to
quickly invent totally new vehicle types, you could i.e. use our technology
to make grandmothers walker electric or even design something innovative
from scratch that would look way cooler than anything out there,” explained
Pedersen.

Because Pedersen’s prototype was created using custom designed, modular 3D
printed parts his first prototype is still in use, though he has
significantly modified it 15 times or so. While he has at this point finally
created a second, more advanced prototype, the first remains in use today
for developing new features and testing. You can see some video of his
prototype and the control application in action here:

One of Pedersen’s biggest hurdles wasn’t actually the development of his
prototype–it was his ability to access the type of equipment that he would
traditionally use in the process. Because he lives in a large metropolitan
city in Denmark where space is at a premium, he didn’t have the space or
access to use standard tooling and fabrication machinery, so he turned to 3D
printing to fill in the gaps. Almost every part on his prototype was
designed in 123D Design and 3D printed on his Ultimaker 2. All of his custom
electronic components were designed using 123D Circuits, an Autodesk program
that allows users to design and simulate their electronics projects
virtually. This allowed him to complete his prototype almost entirely in his
living room.

Here is a video of Faraday Motion’s latest 3D printed prototype being tested
in front of Autodesk’s Pier 9 location in San Francisco:

Pedersen and the rest of the Faraday Motion team are expected to be showing
off their latest electric skateboard this month at the Aut

[EVDL] 'Some crazy bastard crammed an electric motor into an old Miata'

2015-05-23 Thread brucedp5 via EV

'electric-powered car championed by engineering students from UBC'

http://gizmodo.com/the-most-amazing-things-we-saw-at-bay-area-maker-faire-1705378174
The Most Amazing Things We Saw at Bay Area Maker Faire Last Weekend
Sean Buckley 5/19/15

[image
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--EiSXidFR--/1259451428781538989.jpg
awesome homemade electric vehicle

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--M08QtEIV--/1259451428854766765.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--tJm67fq9--/1259451427625907117.gif
(animated gif) Scott Parenteau’s “Walking Pod” is a walking geodesic dome.
A twelve-legged, solar powered robot. Its 0.2 MPH top speed won’t outpace
the average person, but its slow crawl is hauntingly beautiful.
]

... this awesome homemade electric vehicle was parked right behind it:

Yes, it’s exactly what it looks like—some crazy bastard crammed an electric
motor into an old Miata. Patrick Makey spent almost $14,000 converting this
1992 Miata into a modern electric vehicle.

The batteries in its trunk cost Makey $7,000 on their own—but the conversion
still cost him less than buying an electric car new. It’s a fine example of
the passion Makers have: if you can’t afford to buy the technology you want
to ride into the future, build it yourself ...
[© gizmodo.com]

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/140195/Kings-of-the-hill
Kings of the hill
by Carmen Weld | May 19, 2015

... “There was a good crowd of spectators on Saturday,” says Fulton.
“Sunday, the crowd was a little less due to the rain, but we still managed
to get all seven runs in that we promised the drivers, so it was just
fantastic.”

For the first time in the race's history, an electric-powered car championed
by engineering students from UBC also held its own, competing in five of
seven runs ...
...
http://www.knoxmtnhillclimb.ca/results/2015results_overall.pdf
full list of the results
...
http://ubcelectriccar.com/
UBC Electric Car Club UBC Engineering Design Team
http://paf.engineering.ubc.ca/2013/08/31/ubc-electric-car-club/

For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GenZe e-bicycle has the same batteries as a Tesla-S EV

2015-05-23 Thread Cruisin via EV

I designed the first Li-ion battery pack to power a car made from 8500
Panasonic and Sanyo 18650 cells to power my 1970 VW in 2004 resulting 35kw
200 mile range. This was done before Tesla developed their roadster. The
batteries were sold to the engineers leaving my VW without. You can watch a
interview here on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlsSAZPvU8   
. I feel that in some way I contributed to the success of Tesla making the
finest car in the world. Al Bullock



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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GenZe e-bicycle has the same batteries as a Tesla-S EV

2015-05-23 Thread Paul Dove via EV

I think it's possible they used your idea if this video was out there somewhere.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2015, at 7:54 AM, Cruisin via EV  wrote:
> 
> I designed the first Li-ion battery pack to power a car made from 8500
> Panasonic and Sanyo 18650 cells to power my 1970 VW in 2004 resulting 35kw
> 200 mile range. This was done before Tesla developed their roadster. The
> batteries were sold to the engineers leaving my VW without. You can watch a
> interview here on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlsSAZPvU8   
> . I feel that in some way I contributed to the success of Tesla making the
> finest car in the world. Al Bullock
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-GenZe-e-bicycle-has-the-same-batteries-as-a-Tesla-S-EV-tp4675718p4675729.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GenZe e-bicycle has the same batteries as a Tesla-S EV

2015-05-23 Thread Peri Hartman via EV

Maybe you did!  It's hard to know the paths of information.

-- Original Message --
From: "Cruisin via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 23-May-15 5:54:01 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GenZe e-bicycle has the same batteries as a 
Tesla-S EV

I designed the first Li-ion battery pack to power a car made from 8500
Panasonic and Sanyo 18650 cells to power my 1970 VW in 2004 resulting 
35kw
200 mile range. This was done before Tesla developed their roadster. 
The
batteries were sold to the engineers leaving my VW without. You can 
watch a
interview here on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlsSAZPvU8
. I feel that in some way I contributed to the success of Tesla making 
the

finest car in the world. Al Bullock

--
View this message in context: 
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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.

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[EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.

2015-05-23 Thread Peri Hartman via EV

It's difficult for us EV enthusiasts to know what the rest of the world 
thinks.  So I went and asked three non EV people their opionions.  These 
are moderately affluent people who are married and own two cars per 
household.  I'll present their stories here but won't try to interpret 
their meanings too much.


I posed the question like this: Suppose one of your cars broke down and 
you decided it wasn't worth fixing.  You're going to buy a new car.  Why 
would or would not you choose an electric vehicle?


1.  I'd probably choose a gas car.  Don't I have to install some sort of 
charging system at home?  That might be difficult.  And are there enough 
charging stations around?  I don't know if I would need to charge while 
driving places.  Of course, my wife hardly drives a few miles each day, 
she would never run out of charge.


2.  I hear that Tesla is coming out with a 200 mile range EV for around 
$40K in a few years.  I think I'd rather wait for that rather than buy a 
car that doesn't really fit my needs.


3.  To buy an EV, I spend more and get less car.  With my gas car, I 
don't have to plan ahead.  If I need to go a long distance, I just go.  
(Me: what about using your wife's car?)  Well, she might be using it to 
go a longer distance at the same time.


I could have asked more questions and led the discussions but I more or 
less just left it.  In the last case, it's evident that renting a car or 
using a service like car2go for the rare cases where both people need to 
go "long" distances either seemed too inconvenient or wasn't considered.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Paul Dove via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: 20-May-15 4:28:29 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales 
Better? It's the battery.


Well I am sorry he got annoyed and left but I still disagree. All we 
are seeing is the adoption curve. Any new technology takes time to be 
mass accepted. Before the lithium battery electric vehicles were a 
novelty. Now they are here to stay.


Sent from my iPhone

 On May 20, 2015, at 1:45 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:



 On 19 May 2015 at 22:52, jerry freedomev via EV wrote:

 Hi Arak and all, Well you did say that since EV's didn't fit 30% of 
the

 population needs it wasn't good on an EV list kind of should expect
 blowback.


 Well said Jerry, but Arak isn't listening. Thus challenged, he got 
indignant

 and unsubscribed.  :-(

 Let us not forget the immortal Fidonet Principles:
Thou shalt not be too annoying.
Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.

 I'm sympathetic with some of his points, though.  Most of us here 
don't
 think EVs have to manage all the missions and trips that ICEVs can, 
but
 we're not normal vehicle buyers.  The average person is not going to 
pay an
 ICEV price for a car that does less and covers fewer of his 
transporation
 needs than an ICEV does.  That's just normal, rational consumer 
behavior.


 To really take off, EVs that look and cost like ICEVs have to work 
like

 ICEVs.  EVs that don't, don't.  Hint, hint.

 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator

 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
 EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
 Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
 reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
 email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GenZe e-bicycle has the same batteries as a Tesla-S EV

2015-05-23 Thread Lee Hart via EV


Paul Dove via EV wrote:

I think it's possible they used your idea if this video was out there somewhere.


That, or Alan Cocconi's Tzero.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Propulsion_tzero

Cocconi built Tzero in 1997 with lead-acid batteries. Martin Eberhard 
had him convert one to lithium laptop cells in 2003. This became the 
prototype for Martin to start Tesla motors.


--
The greatest pleasure in life is to create something that wasn't
there before. -- Roy Spence
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.

2015-05-23 Thread Paul Dove via EV

True, new concepts take time to catch on. We who own EVs know these are 
unfounded fears.

I would be apprehensive of selling my car and moving to a big city and using 
mass transits because I've always lived in rural areas but many people get by 
just fine like that.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> It's difficult for us EV enthusiasts to know what the rest of the world 
> thinks.  So I went and asked three non EV people their opionions.  These are 
> moderately affluent people who are married and own two cars per household.  
> I'll present their stories here but won't try to interpret their meanings too 
> much.
> 
> I posed the question like this: Suppose one of your cars broke down and you 
> decided it wasn't worth fixing.  You're going to buy a new car.  Why would or 
> would not you choose an electric vehicle?
> 
> 1.  I'd probably choose a gas car.  Don't I have to install some sort of 
> charging system at home?  That might be difficult.  And are there enough 
> charging stations around?  I don't know if I would need to charge while 
> driving places.  Of course, my wife hardly drives a few miles each day, she 
> would never run out of charge.
> 
> 2.  I hear that Tesla is coming out with a 200 mile range EV for around $40K 
> in a few years.  I think I'd rather wait for that rather than buy a car that 
> doesn't really fit my needs.
> 
> 3.  To buy an EV, I spend more and get less car.  With my gas car, I don't 
> have to plan ahead.  If I need to go a long distance, I just go.  (Me: what 
> about using your wife's car?)  Well, she might be using it to go a longer 
> distance at the same time.
> 
> I could have asked more questions and led the discussions but I more or less 
> just left it.  In the last case, it's evident that renting a car or using a 
> service like car2go for the rare cases where both people need to go "long" 
> distances either seemed too inconvenient or wasn't considered.
> 
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Paul Dove via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Sent: 20-May-15 4:28:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? 
> It's the battery.
> 
>> Well I am sorry he got annoyed and left but I still disagree. All we are 
>> seeing is the adoption curve. Any new technology takes time to be mass 
>> accepted. Before the lithium battery electric vehicles were a novelty. Now 
>> they are here to stay.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On May 20, 2015, at 1:45 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
 wrote:
 
 On 19 May 2015 at 22:52, jerry freedomev via EV wrote:
 
 Hi Arak and all, Well you did say that since EV's didn't fit 30% of the
 population needs it wasn't good on an EV list kind of should expect
 blowback.
>>> 
>>> Well said Jerry, but Arak isn't listening. Thus challenged, he got indignant
>>> and unsubscribed.  :-(
>>> 
>>> Let us not forget the immortal Fidonet Principles:
>>>Thou shalt not be too annoying.
>>>Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.
>>> 
>>> I'm sympathetic with some of his points, though.  Most of us here don't
>>> think EVs have to manage all the missions and trips that ICEVs can, but
>>> we're not normal vehicle buyers.  The average person is not going to pay an
>>> ICEV price for a car that does less and covers fewer of his transporation
>>> needs than an ICEV does.  That's just normal, rational consumer behavior.
>>> 
>>> To really take off, EVs that look and cost like ICEVs have to work like
>>> ICEVs.  EVs that don't, don't.  Hint, hint.
>>> 
>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>> EVDL Administrator
>>> 
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
>>> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
>>> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>> 
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>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better?It's the battery.

2015-05-23 Thread Cor van de Water via EV

"unknown makes unloved"
If I here (in Silicon Valley) ask how I can go to San Francisco,
the people start to explain which freeways I need to take: 101 or 280!
When I probe a bit more "any alternatives?" then they become creative:
you could drive up Skyline (35) or take 1 along the coast...
It does not enter their mind that I might want to go by train or bus or
taxi or even ride my bicycle on the Bay Trail to get to the city.
The car is so engrained, that people only choose from the solutions that
they would take themselves, because they know them.
Similar to EV. Plenty EV'ers have found out that their EV is their main vehicle,
that it suits 90+% of their driving needs and they either rent, borrow or share
a long-range vehicle for the rare occasion.
That all sounds like a "hassle" to people raised with the status quo of
liquid fuel cars and it also paves the way for non-starter solutions like
Hydrogen to collect a following, even though it is a lose-lose-lose proposition.
(CO2 production goes up; infrastructure spending goes through the roof and
the operational cost is higher - not to mention the risks inherent to this 
"fuel")

Luckily I see some battery developments in progress that will make Hydrogen 
irrelevant,
so the lobbyists will soon find a closed door, but it will take a few more 
years,
so we will have to endure that madness for a little longer.

In the mean time, companies like Tesla make the EV a desired item, not a hassle
and Nissan has paved the way to get masses into the EV driver seat, so we just 
need
to stay steady with the message that you are driving your EV for free, compared 
to
the expenses of an ICE and people will continue to be curious how they can also
lower the cost of their worst habit and the increasing competition in the market
will also drive the price down, in addition to ever better range and charge 
speed.

I heard from solar installers that about 50% of households who get an EV, also
opt to install solar if they can, so they not only have freed themselves from
paying for their fuel from that moment onwards, but also eliminated the impact
on the environment for their driving habit.

To come back to the 3 interviewed persons - now that they are questioned about 
it,
they may realize that they answered without actually knowing all that much, so 
they
might ask others or question their own opinion. If they find acceptable answers 
from
a reliable source (someone they trust relates how they enjoy their EV) then they
may very well change their opinion - it is an opinion after all...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Paul Dove via EV
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 2:12 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better?It's 
the battery.

True, new concepts take time to catch on. We who own EVs know these are 
unfounded fears.

I would be apprehensive of selling my car and moving to a big city and using 
mass transits because I've always lived in rural areas but many people get by 
just fine like that.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> It's difficult for us EV enthusiasts to know what the rest of the world 
> thinks.  So I went and asked three non EV people their opionions.  These are 
> moderately affluent people who are married and own two cars per household.  
> I'll present their stories here but won't try to interpret their meanings too 
> much.
> 
> I posed the question like this: Suppose one of your cars broke down and you 
> decided it wasn't worth fixing.  You're going to buy a new car.  Why would or 
> would not you choose an electric vehicle?
> 
> 1.  I'd probably choose a gas car.  Don't I have to install some sort of 
> charging system at home?  That might be difficult.  And are there enough 
> charging stations around?  I don't know if I would need to charge while 
> driving places.  Of course, my wife hardly drives a few miles each day, she 
> would never run out of charge.
> 
> 2.  I hear that Tesla is coming out with a 200 mile range EV for around $40K 
> in a few years.  I think I'd rather wait for that rather than buy a car that 
> doesn't really fit my needs.
> 
> 3.  To buy an EV, I spend more and get less car.  With my gas car, I don't 
> have to plan ahead.  If I need to go a long distance, I just go.  (Me: what 
> about using your wife's car?)  Well, she might be using it to go a longer 
> distance at th

[EVDL] We've talked about it for years, now they've done it (was: Norled Ampere e-ferry.no with two 450kW e-motors)

2015-05-23 Thread Bill Dube via EV

We have talked in the past about how you could, in concept, "dump
charge" rapidly in 10 minutes or so from a stationary pack. Then you
would run around for awhile. While you were gone, the dump pack has
recharged at some modest rate from the grid. Rinse and repeat. :-) Some
folks have tried it with limited success in racing. Now the Norwegians
have done it!

This ferry is"dump charging" daily and has proved that what we have
conjectured in the past works in reality. Buses and commuter trains are
next. Maybe even cars. No need for a pack swap. Just fast charge.

Can't wait to hear about the next implementation.

Bill D.

On 5/23/2015 5:29 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: