Re: [EVDL] Lead Acid question (old batteries)
On 26 Jul 2016 at 14:25, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > older batteries may top out at a charging voltage less than a new one, > and so if the charger is not very smart, it never reaches the cutoff > voltage it expects. Regrettably, this is how almost all mass market "automatic" chargers behave. > Im just trying to get enough juice back into it so I can drive the 1 mile to > where I store it If that battery is so tired that it can't manage even a mile, and if the car is a generic DC conversion, chances are you can just remove the bad battery from the series string. The car will most likely run OK (though with lower top speed) with only 9 of the 10 batteries. Just don't try to charge a 108v pack with a 120v charger. :-\ David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform
echarge) stops, the human will take over and drive the >>> truck and do all that is necessary to load/unload. >>> >>> But hey, I have been wrong before so, as always: time will tell. >>> >>> The fact that many dozens of Google self-driving cars are already on >>> the road and without much problems, tells me which direction we are >>> headed. >>> >>> Cor van de Water >>> Chief Scientist >>> Proxim Wireless >>> >>> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water >>> XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info >>> >>> http://www.proxim.com >>> >>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>> and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >>> received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. >>> Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part >>> of this message is prohibited. >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via >>> EV >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 7:03 AM >>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launchas >>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>> >>> Cor, >>> I disagree completely. It is likely we will never have self driving >>> vehicles on the freeway or in any other venue.Personally I think this >>> is an exercise doomed to failure. The road is a complicated place and >>> cannot be compared toair flight where few obstacles are encountered. >>> This is evidenced by the Tesla that drove under the Semi. >>> One day I was driving and the vehicle in front of me swerved because of >>> an obstacle in the roadway and of courseI ran over it. It was a piece >>> of tire from a Semi which flipped up and tore a gash in my drivers >>> door. How are >>> sensors going to detect things like that? Or lets say there's a sudden >>> downpour, or you crest a hill and there's blindingsunlight I believe >>> that many will attempt this and it will end in failure. It's one this t >>> insure individuals it's a wholenew thing to insure software. after >>> all if the cars driving then the cars at fault... who pays? >>> >>> From: Cor van de Water via EV >>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast >>> and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled >>> vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and >>> difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just >>> creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. >>> Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to >>> low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience >>> with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is >>> what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the >>> freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a >>> self-driving >>> vehicle. >>> >>> Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the >>> posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, >>> well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... >>> >>> Cor van de Water >>> Chief Scientist >>> Proxim Wireless >>> >>> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water >>> XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info >>> >>> http://www.proxim.com >>> >>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>> and >>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >>> received >>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >>> this message is prohibited. >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun
Re: [EVDL] Lead Acid question (old batteries)
If n-1 batteries is above the controller minimum voltage, just take the bad one out and drive on the rest, to go the mile -- -Chris On July 26, 2016 1:25:26 PM CDT, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: >Now that is the answer I needed. That is, older batteries may top out >at >a charging voltage less than a new one, and so if the charger is not >very >smart, it never reaches the cutoff voltage it expects. Never tapers >the >current and never indicates Full... even though the battery has >accepted >all it is going to. > >Im just trying to get enough juice back into it so I can drive the 1 >mile >to where I store it Thanks, Bob > >-Original Message- >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lead Acid question > >On 25 Jul 2016 at 11:55, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > >> Im charging my 10 Lead Acids one at a time with a common 10A car >> battery type charger. Usually they come from low to high on the >> "percent" meter and then when they get to 100%, an LED comes on and >> the current tapers to zero. > >> But I have one battery that seems to just stay at mid range and after >> 20 hours is not topping off. And battery is not excessively bubling >> nor is it showing much heat gain. > >Note that I am not an electrochemist, just someone who's used batteries >for quite a few years. There are other folks here with far more >experience and knowledge than I have, but none of them has answered >your >question as yet, so I'll take a run at it. :-\ > >First, one thing that makes remote diagnosis tough is that you haven't >told us anything about the charger. Automatic chargers' algorithms can >affect the symptoms you see with a problem battery. > >That said ... > >It's normal for batteries' maximum on-charge voltage to fall as they >age. >Many automatic chargers know naught of this; they treat all batteries >the >same regardless of age. They'll undercharge new batteries and/or >overcharge old ones. They may not shut off when they should. They may >claim a battery isn't charged when it's as full as it's ever going to >get. > >However, the fact that you're seeing this symptom with only one battery >in >your pack suggests to me that that battery might have at least one bad >cell. >If you can't get its voltage to rise above around 13 volts with the >charger charging it (not open circuit), and after a few hours of rest >if >falls to around 11 volts (open circuit), then that's probably what's >wrong. > >In spite of what the snake oil salesmen claim, there's no cure for >this, >short of replacing the battery. > >As I suggested above, at least in my experience, the way automatic >chargers behave can make it harder to diagnose battery problems, unless >you know a lot about batteries and the charger's design. Charging with >a >manual charger or a regulated power supply, and discharging with a 25 >to >75 amp load, should tell you much more about what's really going on in >that battery. > >David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA >EVDL Administrator > >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL >Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >= = >= = = = = = = = = = = >Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. >To >send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage >http://www.evdl.org/help/ . >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform
orm >>>> >>>> Paul, >>>> >>>> The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast >>>> and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled >>>> vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and >>>> difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just >>>> creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. >>>> Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to >>>> low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience >>>> with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is >>>> what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the >>>> freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a >>>> self-driving >>>> vehicle. >>>> >>>> Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the >>>> posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, >>>> well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... >>>> >>>> Cor van de Water >>>> Chief Scientist >>>> Proxim Wireless >>>> >>>> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water >>>> XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info >>>> >>>> http://www.proxim.com >>>> >>>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>>> and >>>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >>>> received >>>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >>>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >>>> this message is prohibited. >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via >>>> EV >>>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM >>>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org >>>> Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max >>>> speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale >>>> as far as I know. >>>> ___ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- next part -- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/bf026593/attachment.htm> >>>> ___ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- next part -- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/8813642d/attachment.htm> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/3be2c374/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform
e's blindingsunlight I believe >>>> that many will attempt this and it will end in failure. It's one this t >>>> insure individuals it's a wholenew thing to insure software. after >>>> all if the cars driving then the cars at fault... who pays? >>>> >>>> From: Cor van de Water via EV >>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> Paul, >>>> >>>> The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast >>>> and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled >>>> vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and >>>> difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just >>>> creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. >>>> Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to >>>> low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience >>>> with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is >>>> what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the >>>> freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a >>>> self-driving >>>> vehicle. >>>> >>>> Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the >>>> posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, >>>> well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... >>>> >>>> Cor van de Water >>>> Chief Scientist >>>> Proxim Wireless >>>> >>>> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water >>>> XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info >>>> >>>> http://www.proxim.com >>>> >>>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>>> and >>>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >>>> received >>>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >>>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >>>> this message is prohibited. >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via >>>> EV >>>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM >>>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org >>>> Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >>>> adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform >>>> >>>> While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max >>>> speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale >>>> as far as I know. >>>> ___ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- next part -- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/bf026593/attachment.htm> >>>> ___ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>>> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- next part -- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/8813642d/attachment.htm> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >> >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/3be2c374/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform
tingly today to keep the vehicle on the road as much as possible). In future the truck will drive itself while lumbering along on the freeway while the human sleeps/rests. At source and destination as well as at (recharge) stops, the human will take over and drive the truck and do all that is necessary to load/unload. But hey, I have been wrong before so, as always: time will tell. The fact that many dozens of Google self-driving cars are already on the road and without much problems, tells me which direction we are headed. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via EV Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 7:03 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launchas adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform Cor, I disagree completely. It is likely we will never have self driving vehicles on the freeway or in any other venue.Personally I think this is an exercise doomed to failure. The road is a complicated place and cannot be compared toair flight where few obstacles are encountered. This is evidenced by the Tesla that drove under the Semi. One day I was driving and the vehicle in front of me swerved because of an obstacle in the roadway and of courseI ran over it. It was a piece of tire from a Semi which flipped up and tore a gash in my drivers door. How are sensors going to detect things like that? Or lets say there's a sudden downpour, or you crest a hill and there's blindingsunlight I believe that many will attempt this and it will end in failure. It's one this t insure individuals it's a wholenew thing to insure software. after all if the cars driving then the cars at fault... who pays? From: Cor van de Water via EV To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform Paul, The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a self-driving vehicle. Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via EV Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale as far as I know. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <
Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform
; >office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water > >XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info > > > >http://www.proxim.com > > > >This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential > >and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you > >received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. > > Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part > >of this message is prohibited. > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via > >EV > >Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 7:03 AM > >To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launchas > >adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform > > > >Cor, > >I disagree completely. It is likely we will never have self driving > >vehicles on the freeway or in any other venue.Personally I think this > >is an exercise doomed to failure. The road is a complicated place and > >cannot be compared toair flight where few obstacles are encountered. > >This is evidenced by the Tesla that drove under the Semi. > >One day I was driving and the vehicle in front of me swerved because of > >an obstacle in the roadway and of courseI ran over it. It was a piece > >of tire from a Semi which flipped up and tore a gash in my drivers > >door. How are > >sensors going to detect things like that? Or lets say there's a sudden > >downpour, or you crest a hill and there's blindingsunlight I believe > >that many will attempt this and it will end in failure. It's one this t > >insure individuals it's a wholenew thing to insure software. after > >all if the cars driving then the cars at fault... who pays? > > > > From: Cor van de Water via EV > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as > >adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform > > > >Paul, > > > >The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast > >and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled > >vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and > >difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just > >creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. > >Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to > >low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience > >with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is > >what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the > >freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a > >self-driving > >vehicle. > > > >Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the > >posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, > >well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... > > > >Cor van de Water > >Chief Scientist > >Proxim Wireless > > > >office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water > >XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info > > > >http://www.proxim.com > > > >This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential > >and > >proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you > >received > >this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any > >unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of > >this message is prohibited. > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via > >EV > >Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM > >To: ev@lists.evdl.org > >Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as > >adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform > > > >While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max > >speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale > >as far as I know. > >___ > >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > &
Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform
t;vehicles on the freeway or in any other venue.Personally I think this >is an exercise doomed to failure. The road is a complicated place and >cannot be compared toair flight where few obstacles are encountered. >This is evidenced by the Tesla that drove under the Semi. >One day I was driving and the vehicle in front of me swerved because of >an obstacle in the roadway and of courseI ran over it. It was a piece >of tire from a Semi which flipped up and tore a gash in my drivers >door. How are >sensors going to detect things like that? Or lets say there's a sudden >downpour, or you crest a hill and there's blindingsunlight I believe >that many will attempt this and it will end in failure. It's one this t >insure individuals it's a wholenew thing to insure software. after >all if the cars driving then the cars at fault... who pays? > > From: Cor van de Water via EV > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform > >Paul, > >The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast >and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled >vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and >difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just >creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. >Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to >low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience >with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is >what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the >freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a >self-driving >vehicle. > >Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the >posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, >well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... > >Cor van de Water >Chief Scientist >Proxim Wireless > >office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water >XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info > >http://www.proxim.com > >This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >and >proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >received >this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >this message is prohibited. > > >-Original Message- >From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via >EV >Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM >To: ev@lists.evdl.org >Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as >adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform > >While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max >speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale >as far as I know. >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > >-- next part -- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/bf026593/attachment.htm> >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/8813642d/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead Acid question (old batteries)
Now that is the answer I needed. That is, older batteries may top out at a charging voltage less than a new one, and so if the charger is not very smart, it never reaches the cutoff voltage it expects. Never tapers the current and never indicates Full... even though the battery has accepted all it is going to. Im just trying to get enough juice back into it so I can drive the 1 mile to where I store it Thanks, Bob -Original Message- Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lead Acid question On 25 Jul 2016 at 11:55, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Im charging my 10 Lead Acids one at a time with a common 10A car > battery type charger. Usually they come from low to high on the > "percent" meter and then when they get to 100%, an LED comes on and > the current tapers to zero. > But I have one battery that seems to just stay at mid range and after > 20 hours is not topping off. And battery is not excessively bubling > nor is it showing much heat gain. Note that I am not an electrochemist, just someone who's used batteries for quite a few years. There are other folks here with far more experience and knowledge than I have, but none of them has answered your question as yet, so I'll take a run at it. :-\ First, one thing that makes remote diagnosis tough is that you haven't told us anything about the charger. Automatic chargers' algorithms can affect the symptoms you see with a problem battery. That said ... It's normal for batteries' maximum on-charge voltage to fall as they age. Many automatic chargers know naught of this; they treat all batteries the same regardless of age. They'll undercharge new batteries and/or overcharge old ones. They may not shut off when they should. They may claim a battery isn't charged when it's as full as it's ever going to get. However, the fact that you're seeing this symptom with only one battery in your pack suggests to me that that battery might have at least one bad cell. If you can't get its voltage to rise above around 13 volts with the charger charging it (not open circuit), and after a few hours of rest if falls to around 11 volts (open circuit), then that's probably what's wrong. In spite of what the snake oil salesmen claim, there's no cure for this, short of replacing the battery. As I suggested above, at least in my experience, the way automatic chargers behave can make it harder to diagnose battery problems, unless you know a lot about batteries and the charger's design. Charging with a manual charger or a regulated power supply, and discharging with a 25 to 75 amp load, should tell you much more about what's really going on in that battery. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform
van de Water via EV To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform Paul, The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a self-driving vehicle. Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via EV Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale as far as I know. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/bf026593/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless (autonomous) Lyft platform
of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via EV Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale as far as I know. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/bf026593/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead Acid question
On 25 Jul 2016 at 11:55, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Im charging my 10 Lead Acids one at a time with a common 10A car > battery type charger. Usually they come from low to high on the > "percent" meter and then when they get to 100%, an LED comes on and the > current tapers to zero. > But I have one battery that seems to just stay at mid range and after 20 > hours is not topping off. And battery is not excessively bubling nor is it > showing much heat gain. Note that I am not an electrochemist, just someone who's used batteries for quite a few years. There are other folks here with far more experience and knowledge than I have, but none of them has answered your question as yet, so I'll take a run at it. :-\ First, one thing that makes remote diagnosis tough is that you haven't told us anything about the charger. Automatic chargers' algorithms can affect the symptoms you see with a problem battery. That said ... It's normal for batteries' maximum on-charge voltage to fall as they age. Many automatic chargers know naught of this; they treat all batteries the same regardless of age. They'll undercharge new batteries and/or overcharge old ones. They may not shut off when they should. They may claim a battery isn't charged when it's as full as it's ever going to get. However, the fact that you're seeing this symptom with only one battery in your pack suggests to me that that battery might have at least one bad cell. If you can't get its voltage to rise above around 13 volts with the charger charging it (not open circuit), and after a few hours of rest if falls to around 11 volts (open circuit), then that's probably what's wrong. In spite of what the snake oil salesmen claim, there's no cure for this, short of replacing the battery. As I suggested above, at least in my experience, the way automatic chargers behave can make it harder to diagnose battery problems, unless you know a lot about batteries and the charger's design. Charging with a manual charger or a regulated power supply, and discharging with a 25 to 75 amp load, should tell you much more about what's really going on in that battery. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform
Cor, I disagree completely. It is likely we will never have self driving vehicles on the freeway or in any other venue.Personally I think this is an exercise doomed to failure. The road is a complicated place and cannot be compared toair flight where few obstacles are encountered. This is evidenced by the Tesla that drove under the Semi. One day I was driving and the vehicle in front of me swerved because of an obstacle in the roadway and of courseI ran over it. It was a piece of tire from a Semi which flipped up and tore a gash in my drivers door. How are sensors going to detect things like that? Or lets say there's a sudden downpour, or you crest a hill and there's blindingsunlight I believe that many will attempt this and it will end in failure. It's one this t insure individuals it's a wholenew thing to insure software. after all if the cars driving then the cars at fault... who pays? From: Cor van de Water via EV To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform Paul, The reason they only go 25 MPH is simply that Google wanted a car fast and so had to choose to classify them as NEV. Any other 4-wheeled vehicle would have needed crash testing which is not only expensive and difficult but also a lengthy process. It makes no sense if you are just creating a testing platform with a few hundred vehicles. Of course 25 MPH helps in getting slightly longer reaction times due to low speed, but that is not a concern for Google, they wanted experience with a self-driving platform in daily traffic situations and that is what they are getting, never mind that these vehicles can't go on the freeway - the freeway is not a very interesting place for a self-driving vehicle. Cars being for sale or not has no bearing on the concerns from the posters stating that they do not want to be around self-driving cars, well in downtown Mountain View you can't avoid that... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via EV Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 2:39 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as adriverless(autonomous) Lyft platform While technically Google cars can drive around they only travel a max speed of 25mph. They are intended as couriers and they aren't for sale as far as I know. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/bf026593/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead Acid question
jeff via EV wrote: I've used 100s, or 1000s of lead acid 12V batteries. Most were bought new in lots of from one to 90. I learned early on to test each one. It is almost a certainty some will be bad. Typical fallout for me was on the order of 5 to 15%. Return that puppy. That's good advice -- and true for *all* batteries; not just lead-acid! It's been said that there are "liars, damned liars, and battery salesmen". I've tested a lot of batteries over the years, and it's rare for them to meet their published specs. Marketing knows that not 1 customer in 1000 will ever test the battery; so they can get away with exaggerated specs and ship everything, rejects and all. Unless it's obviously bad, the customer will never know. This is why you have to *test* them yourself. And, be vigilant about returning the bad ones for credit. If you can *prove* the battery is bad, the salesman has a harder time weaseling out of the warranty. The better companies are actually pretty good about replacing "duds". When you start testing, you'll find that there really *are* differences between batteries. You do get what you pay for -- and, *don't* get what you didn't pay for! If all the candidates make the same claims, and you buy the cheapest one, you're likely to get the one with the most exaggerated specs and the worst actual performance. Among lead-acids, I've found that Trojan and US Battery floodeds, Enersys and the *old* (not the current) Optimas AGMs, and the Deka gels are good choices. Among nicads, Saft and Varta have been good. Among lithiums, only the A123 cylindrical cells have consistently met their claims. That said: I've only tested a tiny fraction of what's on the market. Take my advice as a hint; not gospel. Do your own testing! -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead Acid question
Hi Bob, I've used 100s, or 1000s of lead acid 12V batteries. Most were bought new in lots of from one to 90. I learned early on to test each one. It is almost a certainty some will be bad. Typical fallout for me was on the order of 5 to 15%. Return that puppy. Regards, Jeff M Sent from Samsung Mobile. Original message From: Robert Bruninga via EV Date:07/25/2016 11:55 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Lead Acid question Im charging my 10 Lead Acids one at a time with a common 10A car battery type charger. Usually they come from low to high on the “percent” meter and then when they get to 100%, an LED comes on and the current tapers to zero. But I have one battery that seems to just stay at mid range and after 20 hours is not topping off. And battery is not excessively bubling nor is it showing much heat gain. What kind of situation is this? Is there a failure mode where it does not eventually get to 13.8 after long charging? All my other failed batteries over the years all seem to go high impedance as the main failure mode… Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160725/2caff0bc/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160726/3111f9da/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless(autonomous) Lyft platform
I am not enamored with auton vehicles, but I do foresee likely having one in
my future (dmv may not let me drive when I am older and my eye issues
worsen).
So, for some people the auton feature will be useful (the too young or old
to drive, the inebriated, etc.).
For others, that are rabidly against auton, making outspoken statements
without having all the auton facts nor knowledge ... their rage will
continue, see
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/future-tech/11-reasons-fear-autonomous-cars
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/auto-shows/north-america/biggest-hurdle-for-self-driving-cars-isnt-technology-but-our-comfort/article28031099/
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160505/OEM06/160509930/billions-are-being-invested-in-driverless-cars-that-americans-dont
http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/six-reasons-to-love-or-loathe-autonomous-cars/
https://www.quora.com/Are-autonomous-cars-going-to-kill-the-joy-of-driving
http://www.wired.com/2012/02/robo-car-haters-are-wrong/
Whether ice/fcv or plugin, automakers will copy(steal) from each other, thus
almost all are on the auton-bandwagon. We as consumers can look at this in
many ways:
-Are automakers throwing million$ into auton so they can continue to make
billion$? (they see a profit in it, whether we want it or not)
-Are automakers just adding features their competitors are offering, to
compete? (just do, without truly thinking it through ... )
-Are automakers thinking gadget rich products sell better? (are they still
as arrogant as in the past, thinking they know better than the consumer?)
-Is this another 'feature' that only a portion of drivers will use (the car
may have the auton ability but the driver isn't using it), and maybe makes a
need for LED indicators on the outside of the vehicle to show other humans,
a human is not driving (in auton mode)?
Life is just full of changes. When you were born, determines how many
changes you have seen and incorporated into your life. IMO, to totally fight
all new tech, is a losing battle.
In the past some new features offered in cars have fallen by the wayside.
And some of those features are here to stay.
Who is to say that in the future the bio-control-chip you were GMO born with
will make all hand and foot driver controls moot (because you only have to
think what you want) ... relegated to being only a rarely used piece of
emergency equipment? (like that dinky 55 mph spare tire, and
cheesy-soft-metal China-made jack) {I am not saying I support this as a
good thing}
Remember way back when the push-button gear shifter was placed in the center
of the steering wheel
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yiZY3NdIGVc/UXYNQUmYaTI/AAACg1U/O6AzzcdN6Zk/s1600/DSC_0216small.jpg
or on the dash?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kCwfJQKinGQ/TokyltjkZtI/AAABqn8/kDRVx2IYiho/s1600/DSC_0476a.jpg
Why did those go away? Was it that something better came along, or was it
that the automakers thought they knew better, even though no one wanted it?
http://mentalfloss.com/article/55030/11-features-you-no-longer-see-cars
Features You No Longer See in Cars
... A sign of the times ...
Today, no one sees the old rotary dial phones used anymore. Now it is almost
all wireless phones ... When did that change occur you you life where no
more slow, non-automated dialing, etc.
People paying by check or delaying paper (WIC) at cash registers are
abandoned in line (people see they will have to wait, pick up their items,
and quickly move to a different check out line, etc.). People have changed
to make a stigma of anything that isn't fast and easy, etc.
Banks have forced the abandonment of the magnetic strip credit card, for the
embedded rfid chip credit card, letting anyone remotely read the rfid chip
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_identity_theft#Controversies
Like the automakers, why did the banks force this?
IMO change happens to all of us. Become knowledgeable, so you can pick the
battles that you will have a better chance to win at ...
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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVLN: GM's 1st 200mi EV will launch as a driverless(autonomous) Lyft platform
As Cor posted, Google's nEV is a R&D platform, see
https://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/
Google Self-Driving Car Project
To start, we're building prototype vehicles that are designed to take you
where you want to go at the push of a button—no driving required. Watch
video ...
Goog also has an auton (TMC, Lexus, Ford, Fiat, ?more) hybrid fleet
[images
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Toyota-Prius-Google-Autonomous-640x400.jpg
https://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/img/62X5mh1op-4Yo2uhwueTlbZtV3U=/570x0/2011/08/05/e721c1bc-fdb5-11e2-8c7c-d4ae52e62bcc/google-driverless-car.jpg
http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/google-is-my-co-pilot-what-can-go-wrong-inline-1-photo-469797-s-original.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-awctcj8kWjo/VnKsdkKH2uI/JW4/tLeM-p__ztA/s1600/GOOGLE-4.jpg
http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2015/12/Ford-Fusion-Autonomous-Self-Driving-Car-California1.jpg
http://images.techtimes.com/data/images/full/199544/google-car.jpg
https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/google-self-driving-car-team.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1600
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03183/ensor_car_3183562b.jpg
http://www.industryweek.com/site-files/industryweek.com/files/imagecache/large_img/uploads/2015/05/051215-google-autonomous-selfdriving-cars-accidents-california.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QfICqoKrghw/maxresdefault.jpg
http://images.technewstoday.com.s3.amazonaws.com/tnt/google-and-fiat-chrysler-team-up-for-autonomous-minivans.jpg
http://images.bidnessetc.com/img/960-general-motors-company-work-google-autonomous-cars.jpg
http://roa.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/14/47/768x511/546a9b74a17e6_-_google_van-lg.jpg
]
And Goog isn't the only auton in town:
[dated]
http://fortune.com/2016/05/03/fiat-google-self-driving-minivans/
Google And Fiat Have a Plan to Make Self-Driving Cars Totally Uncool
MAY 3, 2016
...
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/130010/20160203/jaguar-land-rover-joins-self-driving-car-party-with-7-9-million-investment-program-to-test-autonomous-vehicles.htm
Jaguar Land Rover Joins Self-Driving Car Party With $7.9 Million Investment
Program To Test Autonomous Vehicles
3 February 2016
...
https://www.engadget.com/2015/09/12/honda-self-driving-cars-get-california-approval/
Honda will test self-driving cars on California streets
09.12.15
...
http://blog.caranddriver.com/in-2020-nissan-will-drive-you-but-will-anyone-let-it/
Nissan Promises Autonomous Car ...
AUGUST 29, 2013
http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Nissan-Leaf-at-Nissan-Autonomous-Drive-announcement-placement-626x382.jpg
...
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2013/07/forget-google-volvos-sneaking-out-automated-cars-that-you-can-actually-buy/
Forget Google, Volvo's Spitting Out Under-the-Radar Automated Cars That You
Can Actually Buy
08 Jul 2013
http://media.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Volvo-Car-Driving-by-itself.jpg
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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20160726
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-16-Passenger-Zenith-Electric-Shuttle-Van-r-145mi-ts-55mph-td4683058.html
EVLN: 16 Passenger Zenith Electric Shuttle Van r:145mi ts:55mph
Like its' predecessors, the larger shuttle van is environmentally friendly
and becoming a cost-effective alternative to traditional gas vehicles for
hotels, airports ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Renault-s-trio-of-Electric-vehicles-on-Kiwi-roads-td4683060.html
EVLN: Renault's trio of Electric vehicles on Kiwi roads
Renault's electric cars cover a lot of bases: van, hatchback, ... trio of
electric vehicles on Kiwi roads (and around a carpark) ... See Renault's
weird, wonderful Twizy electric-vehicle on Kiwi roads (kind of). ... on its
side: Renault NZ reckons independent power-company testing in local ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Our-most-excellent-adventure-with-the-world-s-most-famous-Tesla-S-Electric-car-tp4683061.html
EVLN: Our most excellent adventure with the world's most famous Tesla-S
Electric car
We took a Tesla Model S on a road trip and learned the hard way ...
Last year, I drove one of my kids to camp in a BMW i3 ... The trip ...
+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tires-drain-30-percent-of-an-EV-battery-s-range-td4683062.html
?Tires drain 30 percent of an EV battery's range?
... and where every last mile is critical, tires drain around 30 percent of
battery range ...
http://evdl.org/evln/
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[EVDL] EVLN: Our most excellent adventure with the world's most famous Tesla-S EV
[ref http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Our-most-excellent-adventure-with-the-world-s-most-famous-Tesla-S-Electric-car-td4683061.html ] 'Mistake: we didn't top off before departing' http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-s-drive-2016-7 We took a Tesla Model S on a road trip and learned the hard way how it's different from every other car 20160719 Matthew DeBord images / Matthew DeBord Tesla Road Trip 2016 Oh sure, everybody is happy now. Last year, I drove one of my kids to camp in a BMW i3, an extended-range electric vehicle that at the time was rumored to be a basis for the Apple Car. The trip went great, so I decided to make our annual camp sojourn to the scenic Catskills in upstate New York a regular EV-paloooza. And what better car to serve as our futuristic chariot this year than ... the Tesla Model S? And not just any Model S, but a P90D with Ludicrous Mode: the baddest, fastest, coolest Tesla in all the land. The idea was to see if this four-door luxury "family car" with supercar-beating acceleration — 0-60 mph in 2.8 seconds, claimed — could handle a journey of decent length (about 240 miles round trip) involving two adults, three kids, and the gear of a pair of campers for two weeks. Quite a test, eh? And with a few scheduled stops to dine, take in the sights — and recharge the battery. Our adventure began on a pleasant Sunday in July, just like last year, and all initially went according to plan Until it didn't. The pearl white Tesla, equipped with everything, landed in the driveway of out suburban New Jersey test car HQ. My Prius [hev] was intimidated. It was the Model S sedan ... http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/578e51c488e4a77c708b8b73-1200/-in-p90d-trim-the-p-for-performance-the-90-for-the-90-kwh-battery-pack-and-the-d-for-a-dual-motor-all-wheel-drive-setup.jpg ... in P90D trim. The "P" for "performance," the "90" for the 90 kWh battery pack, and the "D" for a dual-motor, all-wheel-drive setup / Just in case you needed a reminder: all-electric equals no tailpipe emissions. The P90D is loaded with sexy extras, like this carbon-fiber spoiler ... ... and door handles that retract flush, but present themselves to you when you get close by. http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/578d346388e4a7fd018b8e4b-1200/but-enough-about-the-fancy-stuff-can-this-ride-handle-a-lot-of-gear-well-heres-what-the-rear-trunk-swallowed-up-.jpg But enough about the fancy stuff. Can this ride handle a lot of gear? Well, here's what the rear trunk swallowed up ... ... meeting my son James' approval. http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/578e525c88e4a7dd488b83fe-1200/and-heres-what-we-got-into-the-frunk-a-front-trunk-thats-there-because-the-model-s-doesnt-have-a-conventional-engine.jpg And here's what we got into the "frunk," a front trunk that's there because the Model S doesn't have a conventional engine. James also dug the frunk! http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/55ce09342acae7c23f8bdbc5-1200/last-year-the-bmw-i3-got-us-to-our-destination-but-it-did-so-at-a-lower-sticker-price-about-5-less-than-the-model-s-p90d-and-with-less-cargo-space-we-only-had-one-campers-gear-to-deal-with-for-that-trip.jpg Last year, the BMW i3 got us to our destination, but it did so at a lower sticker price, about $50,000 less than the Model S P90D, and with less cargo space. We only had one camper's gear to deal with for that trip. http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/578d346288e4a77c708b8820-1200/we-were-all-smiles-as-we-saddled-up-in-2016.jpg We were all smiles as we saddled up in 2016. http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/578d346288e4a727008b8eb8-1200/the-trio-in-the-back-was-joyful.jpg The trio in the back was joyful. http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/578d346288e4a79f178b8c8d-1200/my-lovely-wife-was-psyched.jpg My lovely wife was psyched. I even pulled out my lucky hat. http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/578d346188e4a7dd488b80cd-1200/it-would-shield-me-from-the-rays-pouring-in-through-that-humongous-sunroof.jpg It would shield me from the rays pouring in through that humongous sunroof. Oh yeah, lucky hat! http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/578d346388e4a7f4328b8b12-1200/wed-rely-on-teslas-massive-center-touchscreen-for-all-our-infotainment-and-navigation-needs.jpg We'd rely on Tesla's massive center touchscreen for all our infotainment and navigation needs. http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/578d346288e4a7531b8b8bff-1200/the-trip-would-cover-117-miles-one-way.jpg The trip would cover 117 miles, one-way. The Model S when fully charged has 270 miles of range, enough to comfortable make the journey up and back. But we wanted to investigate the charging options along the way, so we didn't top off before departing. Still, almost 200 miles of range! Plenty, right? My plan was to get to camp, then head over to a Tesla destination partner charging site, get enough juice to make a Supercharger station on the return route,
[EVDL] ?Tires drain 30 percent of an EV battery's range?
http://blog.caranddriver.com/the-future-of-tires-will-the-government-limit-grip/ The Future of Tires: Will the Government Limit Grip? July 20, 2016 Clifford Atiyeh The 1980s Michelin ads picturing car tires as infant playpens, with babies surrounded by belted radials and black rubber, always ended with an invaluable lesson: “Because so much is riding on your tires.” It’s as true today as ever, only there’s an extra weight we didn’t consider back then: The federal government. For the first time, the United States will attempt to ban passenger vehicle tires that aren’t fuel-efficient. The FAST Act, signed into law by President Obama in December 2015, is a five-year transportation bill that, among many things, directs the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to set minimum standards for tire rolling resistance by the end of 2017. It will attempt to mirror tire regulations adopted by the European Union in 2012, which mandated thresholds for rolling resistance, wet traction, and even noise. This ignites a very reasonable suspicion. Will low-grip tires with “eco” labels on the sidewall—some of which are already fitted as original equipment on efficiency-minded mainstream cars today—come to ruin all cars, especially sports cars? Surely, our skidpad results and slalom times would all suffer. But after reviewing trade group opinions of the EU regulation and speaking to a few experts, we’re not sure any of that will happen. When these new regulations go into effect (likely in five years), our tires and cars should overcome whatever may get lost—fuel consumption included. “We are first and foremost a safety product,” says Mike Martini, president for Bridgestone’s original equipment division in the U.S. “We got to have this fuel economy component, but you got to do it without compromise.” Why go after tires? With significant strides made in aerodynamics and other sources of efficiency-sapping friction, modern cars have gotten to the point that their tires burn up a bigger proportion of fuel than they used to. According to Michelin, tires typically account for 25 percent of a new car’s fuel consumption, up from the 20 percent it was a few years ago. Put another way, every fourth fill-up in your Accord goes to overcome rolling resistance. On electric vehicles, which are further optimized for efficiency, and where every last mile is critical, tires drain around 30 percent of battery range. “According to the EU’s calculations, the best “A” grade tires may reduce fuel consumption by 7.5 percent compared to the lowest “G” grade.” In Europe, all car tires ship with consumer labels that score a tire’s fuel efficiency and wet traction across an A to G grading scale, along with a three-tiered scale for allowable road noise relative to future limits. Tires that score below a G—that’s a rolling resistance greater than 12.1 kilograms per metric ton—can’t be sold in the EU. According to the EU’s calculations, the best “A” grade tires may reduce fuel consumption by 7.5 percent compared to the lowest “G” grade. Multiply the billions of miles we travel worldwide by even a sliver of improvement in gas mileage and the savings are massive. Bridgestone goes so far to claim that its Ecopia Plus tires can net drivers an additional 20 miles over a 400-mile cruising range. (Of course, if every driver checked their tire pressures each month the potential fuel savings could be massive as well, but what American does that?) Our government isn’t likely to require noise reduction or so many letters. An earlier, separate directive intended to supplement the Uniform Tire Quality Grading System—the numerical treadwear rating and two alphabetical ratings for temperature and traction imprinted on each sidewall—is also under consideration. New five-star ratings will be displayed for fuel efficiency, wet traction, and treadwear. These ratings may not coincide with the actual efficiency and traction thresholds proposed by the FAST Act. But whatever regulators ultimately decide, we’ll have the first standard that’ll let us compare a tire’s fuel efficiency against its competitors. Winter, off-road, spare, light-truck (“LT” designation), and any tires less than 12 inches in diameter are exempt. Car enthusiasts shouldn’t cry, at least not until the first ruling draft is published. The wording in the FAST Act specifically mandates that any new standards won’t have a “disproportionate effect” on tires rated Z and higher (i.e., those with speed ratings above 149 mph). That wording was explicitly lobbied by the Rubber Manufacturers Association, which represents the majority of tire companies selling in the U.S. The bill’s language for wet-traction requirements also scales them with fuel efficiency, so that any increase in efficiency must prevent a decrease in wet traction. Since wet surfaces have a lower friction-coefficient than dry surfaces, it’s a tougher—and ultimately, safer—benchmark for tire companies to meet. In essence, lawmakers
