Re: [EVDL] sumitomotire.com energy generating tires> frictional charging

2019-07-30 Thread Peri Hartman via EV 
It's potentially possible that the energy could be used to power the EV. 
If the energy is being generated, whether you want it or not, and if you 
don't "harvest" it, it will simply dissipate as heat. However, I can 
only imagine that the amount generated is infinitesimal.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "EVDL Administrator" 
Sent: 30-Jul-19 6:35:33 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] sumitomotire.com energy generating tires> frictional 
charging



On 31 Jul 2019 at 1:15, Rod Hower via EV wrote:


 The article talks about enough power for a Tire Monitoring
  Pressure System, which requires milliAmps to power the sensor


Correct.  However, following the main article, Bruce's post references 3
more articles, all of which suggest that energy recovered from flexing tires
could somehow be used to charge an EV's battery.

At least their headlines say that.  I'll admit, I didn't actually read the
articles.  Life's too short.  :-\

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] sumitomotire.com energy generating tires> frictional charging

2019-07-30 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 31 Jul 2019 at 1:15, Rod Hower via EV wrote:

> The article talks about enough power for a Tire Monitoring
>  Pressure System, which requires milliAmps to power the sensor

Correct.  However, following the main article, Bruce's post references 3 
more articles, all of which suggest that energy recovered from flexing tires 
could somehow be used to charge an EV's battery.  

At least their headlines say that.  I'll admit, I didn't actually read the 
articles.  Life's too short.  :-\

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] sumitomotire.com energy generating tires> frictional charging

2019-07-30 Thread Rod Hower via EV 
 We should not confuse the original post with generator in a wheel folks, I 
dealt with those people in the early 90s when I worked at GE on electric 
vehicles.  The article talks about enough power for a Tire Monitoring Pressure 
System, which requires milliAmps to power the sensor to send signals to the 
vehicles computer via Bluetooth, so it's not actually powering a vehicle, just 
a sensor

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 8:26:25 PM EDT, Gail Lucas via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 David, many years ago we often had people come to our EAA meetings with 
these suggestions. Engineers in attendance would tell them such things 
defy the laws of physics. One 'inventor' responded that the laws of 
physics would be changing, so perhaps that has happened. :)

Gail

On 7/30/2019 4:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> On 30 Jul 2019 at 16:59, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
> 
>> a means of charging an electric carTMs battery by transforming the heat
>> generated from flexing as the tyre rolls into electrical energy.
> 
> Wouldn't it be easier to just link a generator to the wheel?
> 
> Or how about a propeller that spins in the wind as the car rolls down the
> road?
> 
> :-(
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

2019-07-30 Thread Harsha Godavari via EV 
I would insert a nylon rope (longer than the pipe) in the pipe before laying it 
down. Then I could attach my cable to end of the rope and pull it through when 
I am ready.

- Original Message -
From: John Lussmyer via EV 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: John Lussmyer 
Sent: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 18:27:40 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

On Tue Jul 30 17:13:37 PDT 2019 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>What's a good way to protect the conduit when I
>cover the holes?
>
>I don't want to get "lucky" when someone
>drives a truck on this grassy strip.
>
>Maybe an elbow on each end, and an oversize cap?
>It needs to be buried for final inspection :-)

I'd use the gray schedule 80 electrical PVC conduit, and something like 3" to 
make it REALLY easy to pull cable through it.


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Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

2019-07-30 Thread John Lussmyer via EV 
On Tue Jul 30 17:13:37 PDT 2019 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>What's a good way to protect the conduit when I
>cover the holes?
>
>I don't want to get "lucky" when someone
>drives a truck on this grassy strip.
>
>Maybe an elbow on each end, and an oversize cap?
>It needs to be buried for final inspection :-)

I'd use the gray schedule 80 electrical PVC conduit, and something like 3" to 
make it REALLY easy to pull cable through it.


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Re: [EVDL] sumitomotire.com energy generating tires> frictional charging

2019-07-30 Thread Gail Lucas via EV 
David, many years ago we often had people come to our EAA meetings with 
these suggestions. Engineers in attendance would tell them such things 
defy the laws of physics. One 'inventor' responded that the laws of 
physics would be changing, so perhaps that has happened. :)


Gail

On 7/30/2019 4:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 30 Jul 2019 at 16:59, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


a means of charging an electric carTMs battery by transforming the heat
generated from flexing as the tyre rolls into electrical energy.


Wouldn't it be easier to just link a generator to the wheel?

Or how about a propeller that spins in the wind as the car rolls down the
road?

:-(

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator


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Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

2019-07-30 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
I'd just put pipe caps on the ends finger tight and bury it till after they
are done.  Then dig down to find the pipe and decide then how you want to
route things afterward.

bob

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 8:13 PM Seth Rothenberg via EV 
wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:35 PM Robert Bruninga  wrote:
>
> > Go buy a piece of 1.5" PVC conduit and get it down before they pour the
> > concrete!
> > Then you can run your cord under the sidewalk ANY time you want later.
> Bob
> >
>
> Bob et al,
> I have laid the groundwork (literally) for this.
>
> I just dug down 12" on either side of the sidewalk excavation,
> careful to avoid the infamous roots that started this all.
> I refilled the holes for the rough inspection tomorrow,
> but they will be easy to redig with the loose dirt.
> ..and I'll need to move the gravel aside
>
> What's a good way to protect the conduit when I
> cover the holes?
>
> I don't want to get "lucky" when someone
> drives a truck on this grassy strip.
>
> Maybe an elbow on each end, and an oversize cap?
> It needs to be buried for final inspection :-)
>
> Thanks
> -- next part --
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

2019-07-30 Thread Peri Hartman via EV 
A good bed of crushed gravel, like "3/8 minus", underneath the conduit 
with more on top. As long as the crushed gravel is sitting on firm soil, 
it will not shift when weight is applied to it.


However, there is conduit made for electrical conduit: "schedule 40". 
It's probably strong enough on it's own, assuming it doesn't have too 
much deflection or shear.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Seth Rothenberg via EV" 
To: "Seth Rothenberg" 
Cc: "Seth Rothenberg" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 30-Jul-19 5:13:37 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get 
towed)



On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:35 PM Robert Bruninga  wrote:


 Go buy a piece of 1.5" PVC conduit and get it down before they pour the
 concrete!
 Then you can run your cord under the sidewalk ANY time you want later.  Bob



Bob et al,
I have laid the groundwork (literally) for this.

I just dug down 12" on either side of the sidewalk excavation,
careful to avoid the infamous roots that started this all.
I refilled the holes for the rough inspection tomorrow,
but they will be easy to redig with the loose dirt.
..and I'll need to move the gravel aside

What's a good way to protect the conduit when I
cover the holes?

I don't want to get "lucky" when someone
drives a truck on this grassy strip.

Maybe an elbow on each end, and an oversize cap?
It needs to be buried for final inspection :-)

Thanks
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Re: [EVDL] Don't be a pathetic charge-mooching-thief> (get towed)

2019-07-30 Thread Seth Rothenberg via EV 
On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:35 PM Robert Bruninga  wrote:

> Go buy a piece of 1.5" PVC conduit and get it down before they pour the
> concrete!
> Then you can run your cord under the sidewalk ANY time you want later.  Bob
>

Bob et al,
I have laid the groundwork (literally) for this.

I just dug down 12" on either side of the sidewalk excavation,
careful to avoid the infamous roots that started this all.
I refilled the holes for the rough inspection tomorrow,
but they will be easy to redig with the loose dirt.
..and I'll need to move the gravel aside

What's a good way to protect the conduit when I
cover the holes?

I don't want to get "lucky" when someone
drives a truck on this grassy strip.

Maybe an elbow on each end, and an oversize cap?
It needs to be buried for final inspection :-)

Thanks
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Re: [EVDL] sumitomotire.com energy generating tires> frictional charging

2019-07-30 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 30 Jul 2019 at 16:59, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

> a means of charging an electric carTMs battery by transforming the heat
> generated from flexing as the tyre rolls into electrical energy. 

Wouldn't it be easier to just link a generator to the wheel?

Or how about a propeller that spins in the wind as the car rolls down the 
road?

:-(

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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[EVDL] sumitomotire.com energy generating tires> frictional charging

2019-07-30 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


https://www.ivtinternational.com/news/hybrid-electric-vehicles/sumitomo-developing-electricity-generating-tire.html
Sumitomo developing electricity-generating tire
26th July 2019  James Allen

[image  
https://www.ivtinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Energy-Harvester.jpg
 frictional charging tire
]

Off-highway electric vehicles could soon generate their own electricity from
inside their own tires, following developments by Sumitomo Rubber
Industries.

In conjunction with Professor Hiroshi Tani of Kansai University, the tire
arm of the company is working on the Energy Harvester, a tire able to
generate electricity while fitted to the wheels of a moving vehicle.

Taking advantage of the build up of static electricity, known as frictional
charging, the tire efficiently produces power as it rotates.

Inside the Energy Harvester are two layers of rubber each covered in an
electrode, along with a negatively charged film that interfaces with a
positively charged film. When fixed to the inside of a conventional tire
carcass it generates electricity as the tire deforms during rotation.

Engineers believe the innovative product could lead to practical
applications as a power source for sensors used in TPMS (Tire Pressure
Monitoring Systems) and other automotive and off-highway devices without the
need for batteries.

It was created as part of Sumitomo’s R&D program to develop technologies
that target improvements in safety and environmental performance. Now, the
research has been selected by the Japan Science and Technology Agency (a
national research and development agency) as a Type FS* Seed Project under
A-STEP (Adaptable and Seamless Technology Transfer Program through
Target-Driven R&D). Sumitomo Rubber Industries will now advance this
research with support from the Japan Science and Technology Agency.
[© ivtinternational.com]
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=energy+generating+tires


https://autofile.ca/en-ca/auto-news/falken-uses-tires-to-generate-electricity
Falken uses tires to generate electricity
Falken Tire may have found a new way to generate electricity to help extend
electric vehicle range — an in-tire energy ...
https://res.cloudinary.com/autofile-communications-inc/image/upload/w_1366/v1564199444/article/article18916/qi0x6zbwcslyvt6suq47.jpg


[dated]
https://www.wired.com/2015/03/goodyear-trying-make-electricity-generating-tire/
Goodyear Is Trying to Make an Electricity-Generating Tire
https://www.wired.com/2015/03/goodyear-trying-make-electricity-generating-tire/
Mar 12, 2015 - Goodyear Is Trying to Make an Electricity-Generating Tire. As
awesome as electric vehicles are—and, they are awesome—range remains their
limiting factor. Regenerative braking, which captures energy otherwise lost
as heat and returns it to the battery, helps here.
https://media.wired.com/photos/593273ba4dc9b45ccec5e22b/master/w_582,c_limit/concept-tire-ft.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Goodyear-EV-pack-charging-shape-shifting-tyres-geneva-ch-show-tp4674055.html
EVLN: Goodyear EV pack-charging, shape-shifting tyres @geneva.ch show
... a means of charging an electric car’s battery by transforming the heat
generated from flexing as the tyre rolls into electrical energy. The
materials used would optimise the tyre’s electricity generation capabilities
as well as its rolling resistance. “As demand for electric cars grows,
this...
Mar 04, 2015


+ (Indie the 1973 VW RHD e-campervan conversion EV.uk)
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2019/jul/21/yorkshire-dales-all-electric-classic-vw-campervan
Exploring the Yorkshire Dales by electric campervan
21 Jul 2019 ... built in 1973 and came from ... Andrews in Indiana ...
converted the van to a right-hand drive, had a local.uk cabinet maker fit it
out
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/c880c40c31c9f7fc3316fb8947cdb08b0b939488/57_176_3731_2240/master/3731.jpg?width=1225&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=ad945807f71f0521dc4626b84b878e79




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] FW: A Message from Amazon Business Customer Service

2019-07-30 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
AMAZON responded.  But sent me to their sign vendor.   I will try to get
around to emailing this company and see if they will make the OUTLET sign.
This one, Amazon found is still a STATION sign.  Bob



*From:* amazon.com
*Subject:* A Message from Amazon Business Customer Service



[image: Image removed by sender.]

<https://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?C=3GG4DES2VDURU&K=JB1X97JXJJKG&M=urn:rtn:msg:20190730014951a508547abfd547a19d25434e7b60p0na&R=CRI8964EJAYG&T=C&U=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fref%3Dpe_584750_33951330_cscem_amznhome_logo_1&H=FAED8PWTX0NCTG2BKK3EBJSR63YA&ref_=pe_584750_33951330_cscem_amznhome_logo_1>



Message from Amazon Business Customer Service

Hello Robert,

Thank you for feedback in regards to the item "Electric Vehicle Parking -
Only While Charging" Sign By SmartSign that is available on our website. To
be clear, Amazon is the retailer for this item, we do not manufacture these
signs, but they are made by a third party company, SmartSign. You can view
their website here:

https://www.smartsign.com/

SmartSign does seem to make a sign similar to your example here:

https://www.smartsign.com/fos/Parking-Sign/Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Station-Sign/SKU-K-6169.aspx

Though they do not currently offer it for sale on Amazon, you may want to
contact them for other pricing and customization options they might offer.

I hope this helps!


We appreciate your feedback. Please use the buttons below to vote about
your experience today.


Best regards,
Derek P.

*Amazon.com*





[image: Image removed by sender.]
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Re: [EVDL] V2H or better, (V2O)

2019-07-30 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
I am amazed that EVs and hybrids do not inherently install 120v AC outlets
in the front and back of every car for VEHICLE-TO-OUTLETS..  (VTO) It would
only cost them maybe $99 per car to add a 1 kW or better inverter.  Shucks,
they could even make a profit and charge for it as an option.

But it is ridiculous to be driving around every day in a 50 kW generator or
in a car with 60 kWh of battery capacity and not be able to plug stuff in!
Bob, Wb4APR

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 10:59 PM
To: Lee Hart ; Electric Vehicle Discussion List

Cc: Ing. Marco Gaxiola 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] V2H

I believe there may be two main reasons:

a) is that they may be waiting the right moment, that will boost other Tesla
news etc. Probably when launching the truck.

b) may be more of a complex software and business strategy to successfully
deploy it among all existing M3 owners and especially EV fleets. Like for
example: updating the car software to show new screens with graphs and
databases with buy/sell schedules while plugged in, similar the phone and
web apps to monitor KWh/$ earned. And of course Including legal just like
Lee Hart mentioned it. I know all commercial ‘grid tie’ products in the
market, must pass certain electrical tests to ensure they can safely
disconnect in case of over/under voltages, changes in frequency, etc.

And I can also see two different approaches: one would be the grid tie
service (I believe this will be the biggest target) and the second will be
off-grid to give the M3 ability to work as a stand-alone AC generator (power
blackouts, camping, etc.)

The firs one could also easily even work without any house electrical
modification, everything thru the L1 or L2 EVSE.

As a power generator, EVSEs would have to be different than actual ones to
‘receive power’ from the M3 before powering AC devices. Or maybe they will
come up with a special AC outlet that will plug right into the charge port.

It could even work like Rivian, to provide charge from one M3 to any other
EV on the road.


With regards the cost, I actually was surprised the way they designed the
whole ‘penthouse’ area (how I heard it’s been called); they packaged the
onboard charger and DC-DC converter into one sole PCB, and next the HV
contactors and a ‘country/region AC adapter PCB, saving lot of money on
individual HV and LV wiring and connectors, avoiding use of individual
cooling loops, coolant hoses & fittings, mounting brackets and die-cast
metal enclosures like most other OEMs use to do (individually packing each
component, find a mounting location and then interconnect everything)

They used only one piece ‘cold plate’ to remove heat from all hi-pwr
semiconductors, transformers and coils, the design from my point of view was
awesome and the best I’ve ever seen.

Probably the bi-directionally feature may add cost, yes. But all other
improvements and efficient packaging they did seems to me that they beat all
competitors cost over all.




Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>
> From: Alan Arrison via EV 
>> It seems odd Tesla would have that capability available and not
>> mention it. It seems like it would add cost.
>>
>> I was thinking more about an off board inverter that would connect to
>> the vehicle fast charge port.
>
>
> Perhaps it is a legal issue? In most parts of the US, the local power
> companies sought (and were granted) a legal monopoly on selling
> electricity. 100+ years ago, they wouldn't wire your city unless you gave
> them a monopoly on selling power.
>
> So pushing power back into the grid has been interpreted as "selling"
> power by some lawyers.
>
>
> --
> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
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UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)