Re: [EVDL] Leaf 2use in VT: buying a used EV ...

[Jamie K via EV]

I don't know what the story is in Australia but just to clarify some of 
the info below, our USA _2013_ LEAF SV model does have the faster level 
2 charging, 440 volt quick charging port, and heat pump.


Plus a light in the charge port, a useful battery charge percentage 
display and a few other refinements added in 2013. It also has an 80% 
charge option (good for protecting battery life) that was removed in 
later years.


2013 SL models also had those features plus Bose speakers and an 
all-around camera display. 2013 S models did not come with all of those 
features but some may have been available as options.


We can report that at 55k miles or so the dash still shows all 12 bars 
on the battery display (it's likely degraded some but not enough to 
knock off the top bar yet or have a significantly noticeable effect on 
our daily driving needs).


Our 2013 LEAF SV is EPA-rated at 84 miles/full charge and we generally 
do better than that in summer and a bit less in winter. We plug it in 
when not in use, so daily miles can be higher than those available from 
a single-charge.


When we bought it we figured out what range we actually needed and it's 
been a workhorse for us.


Cheers,
 -Jamie



On 8/21/19 9:56 PM, Glenn Van Vlemen via EV wrote:

I have been looking at 2nd hand leaf’s but find the battery degradation
severely limits the use of these vehicles.

Some progress appears to be on the horizon for installing additional
capacity to restore and or improve range. But not commercially available
yet and potential issues around insurance, liabilities etc yet to be
clearly defined.

In Australia this appears to make these vehicles impractical and thus
valueless!

I do a 55km commute daily so would like a 80% charged range of > 80km to be
useful. Then there is the issue of continued battery degradation and
further reduction of range into the future.

So the leaf appears to me to have a very limited life and market. Pity as
the cars are on the market for reasonable prices now, assuming you can
accept the range limitations.


On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 09:13, Seth Rothenberg via EV 
wrote:


I second much of the advice shared here already,
and I would add one thing.

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 8:52 PM brucedp5 via EV  wrote:


I would not waste time on ay leaf that is older than 2014. That is the
model
year offering onboard 6kW chargers and had worked out most of the charger
bugs.



I have a 2013 Nissan Leaf S, 24KWh battery, theoretical range 84 miles.
I bought this car 200 miles from home on a day that was 18 degrees F.
Let's just say it's good I had plenty of time and a really good friend
to take turns with.

In the 2016 model year, two additional options became available -
Heat pump instead of resistive heat and
30 KWh battery  (Not on all models in 2016).

It would be worth studying if these options are available
in your area, as I have been told they make a big difference in range.

If you buy a Leaf, one or more of the groups can share
more tips, like using seat warmers to warm people
conductively instead of the high cost of physically moving
air through the heating system.

Good luck, please let us know :-)
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*Glenn Van Vlemen*
Tel: +61 419 919 536
Email:  *gl...@exoro.com.au *
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf 2use in VT: buying a used EV ...

[Glenn Van Vlemen via EV]

I have been looking at 2nd hand leaf’s but find the battery degradation
severely limits the use of these vehicles.

Some progress appears to be on the horizon for installing additional
capacity to restore and or improve range. But not commercially available
yet and potential issues around insurance, liabilities etc yet to be
clearly defined.

In Australia this appears to make these vehicles impractical and thus
valueless!

I do a 55km commute daily so would like a 80% charged range of > 80km to be
useful. Then there is the issue of continued battery degradation and
further reduction of range into the future.

So the leaf appears to me to have a very limited life and market. Pity as
the cars are on the market for reasonable prices now, assuming you can
accept the range limitations.


On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 09:13, Seth Rothenberg via EV 
wrote:

> I second much of the advice shared here already,
> and I would add one thing.
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 8:52 PM brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
> > I would not waste time on ay leaf that is older than 2014. That is the
> > model
> > year offering onboard 6kW chargers and had worked out most of the charger
> > bugs.
> >
>
> I have a 2013 Nissan Leaf S, 24KWh battery, theoretical range 84 miles.
> I bought this car 200 miles from home on a day that was 18 degrees F.
> Let's just say it's good I had plenty of time and a really good friend
> to take turns with.
>
> In the 2016 model year, two additional options became available -
> Heat pump instead of resistive heat and
> 30 KWh battery  (Not on all models in 2016).
>
> It would be worth studying if these options are available
> in your area, as I have been told they make a big difference in range.
>
> If you buy a Leaf, one or more of the groups can share
> more tips, like using seat warmers to warm people
> conductively instead of the high cost of physically moving
> air through the heating system.
>
> Good luck, please let us know :-)
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*Regards*

*Glenn Van Vlemen*
Tel: +61 419 919 536
Email:  *gl...@exoro.com.au *
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Re: [EVDL] video: Tesla Model S vs Porsche Tacan

[Ed Blackmond via EV]

> On Aug 21, 2019, at 6:13 PM, Paul Wujek via EV  wrote:
> 
> Illustration of how mainstream manufacturers still don't get it:
> 

Yeah, but Volkswagen is going to come out with an electric version of the 
Microbus.

Ed
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Re: [EVDL] Considering buying a used EV. Suggestions requested.

[Peter Eckhoff via EV]

Not exactly sure of your price range.  I've owned a Chevy Bolt and I
know a number of them are now available on the used car market.  The
seats fold down and we have carried our dog in it.  I like the way the
sensors alert you instead of trying to control of a situation.

The Tesla stores will tell you that other EVs are traded in for
Teslas.  Those EV trade-ins are taken to car auction houses.  What
they get sold for is deducted from the cost of a new Tesla.  You might
want to find out if you could buy direct from the person trading in
their EV for a Tesla.  You'd be buying it at "wholesale" prices.


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 3:42 PM Chris Richard via EV  wrote:
>
> All:
>
> First, let me explain that I'm not an active contributor to this list and may 
> inadvertently be raising questions that have been discussed before. I looked 
> in message footers to see how I might search the archive and found nothing. 
> So, if this has been explicated before, I apologize and request a pointer to 
> where I might find the earlier comments.
> Here's my question:
> I am nearing the lease termination date on my second Fiat 500e. This time, 
> I'm considering buying either a used 500e or some other EV.
> The leases are fine, but I'd rather not pay another big deposit and end up 
> with no equity in another three years.
> Of course, the big questions are range and battery life. My two cars have 
> done fine on range through the six years I've leased them. I typically put 
> 500 miles or so a month on them, and expect to return this second car at 
> around 15,000 miles, which was the same usage for my last one. That's about 
> typical of the cars I see offered for sale at around $8,000 without Fiat's 
> absurd residual prices.
> What happens to range beyond three years and beyond 15,000 miles is a mystery.
> I'm in California. I may possibly relocate to Vermont in the next few years. 
> It's my understanding that California law mandates a 10 year/150,000-mile 
> warranty on ev batteries, but I'll bet there are plenty of loopholes. I'd 
> like to know about that, about options and questions to ask on extended 
> warranties, on the merits of buying from a dealer vs. a private party, etc.
> Finally, as much as I've liked the 500e, I'm not wedded to it. It would be 
> nice to be able to carry lumber home or to have less fear that my dog, who is 
> so afraid of cars that he can only travel in a crate, might get seriously 
> hurt or killed  if somebody rear-ends me. So I'd like more room, but have 
> never been that impressed with the other EVs available in my price range.
> Any suggestions appreciated, and again, sorry if this has already been 
> explored on this list.
>
> CR
>
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[EVDL] video: Tesla Model S vs Porsche Tacan

[Paul Wujek via EV]

Illustration of how mainstream manufacturers still don't get it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD-qG_6Pd1Y

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf 2use in VT: buying a used EV ...

[Seth Rothenberg via EV]

I second much of the advice shared here already,
and I would add one thing.

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 8:52 PM brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> I would not waste time on ay leaf that is older than 2014. That is the
> model
> year offering onboard 6kW chargers and had worked out most of the charger
> bugs.
>

I have a 2013 Nissan Leaf S, 24KWh battery, theoretical range 84 miles.
I bought this car 200 miles from home on a day that was 18 degrees F.
Let's just say it's good I had plenty of time and a really good friend
to take turns with.

In the 2016 model year, two additional options became available -
Heat pump instead of resistive heat and
30 KWh battery  (Not on all models in 2016).

It would be worth studying if these options are available
in your area, as I have been told they make a big difference in range.

If you buy a Leaf, one or more of the groups can share
more tips, like using seat warmers to warm people
conductively instead of the high cost of physically moving
air through the heating system.

Good luck, please let us know :-)
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[EVDL] Leaf 2use in VT: buying a used EV ...

[brucedp5 via EV]

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Considering-buying-a-used-EV-Suggestions-requested-tp4694709.html
]

Assumptions: I'll assume you are in SoCal/LA area. You've not experienced VT
winter driving. You didn't say what area/city of VT so I chose a zip code of
05001. Your leased 500e has an on board 6kW charger so those fast L2
charging times are what you are familiar with. (request others
verify/correct the following)

Here are some links to explore:

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+weather+vs+vt
 learn of the differences driving in VT winters. I suggest you get on leaf
forums and specifically ask VT and neighboring NH, upper NY, etc. state Leaf
EV'rs their views of what year, trim, tires, works best, etc. 
In CA you only wear one set of tires, but in the northern states, you put on
a set of snow tires for winter, and change them back again in spring. 
Not only the cold temps but extra friction from snow tires, snow, mud, etc,
will reduce your range, so use plugshare.com to know and plan on charging
away from home.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/how-to-visually-tell-if-car-has-6-6-charger.12161/
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+tell+if+nissan+leaf+has+6.6kw+charger
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+year+nissan+leaf+offer+6kw+charger

I suggest you only focus on used Leaf models and tirm that have an onboard
6kW level2(l2) j1772 charger and a CHAdeMO level3(l3) port. 
It might be that most of your local driving will be fine just using the
lower, slower L2-3kW charger at home/where you'll live. 
But like having a tool kit with a large, medium, small set of screw drivers,
you may only use the medium 99% of the time but when you need the large one,
its there available to you. 
Another way to think of it is, its cold, wet, and the mate is complaining. 2
hours of that, charging at 3kW, or only having to endure 1hr of that,
charging at a public EVSE (charger) because you have an onboard 6kW charger.

I suggest you bring up plugshare.com and search on Vermont, then use the web
page's left menu sidebar to change the filters to 1st on show what CHAdeMO
l3 EVSE are near where you will live. Then toggle that to only show what
j1772 l2 EVSE are where you'll be driving. 

Using plugshare.com has several other informational benefits. One is that
you can open the listings near where you'll be driving and know what
EVSE.net rfid card they'll use, how much they co$t to use, and also in the
driver 'checkins', you can see how often they are used, by what brand/model
plugin, and any problems that EVSE station has/has-had.

https://www.carfax.com/Used-Nissan-Leaf_w536
This only one of several used leaf lookup sites. Be sure to update the zip
code to where you'll be living in VT, change the search to 500+/nation-wide,
and change the sort to lowest price to highest.

I would not waste time on ay leaf that is older than 2014. That is the model
year offering onboard 6kW chargers and had worked out most of the charger
bugs.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nissan+leaf+lumber
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=nissan+leaf+dog
 links to discussions of carrying lumber or a dog in a leaf




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}
(formally from Silicon_Valley-CA, now a south-central Texan: hot-hot
summers, freezing winters, and all the lightning-strikes, 5" down-pour
flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. you'd ever want, y'all)

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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era. I want one.

[Alan Arrison via EV]

3kw! Do you have any idea how many square feet you would need and how 
heavy just the panels would be?


On 8/21/2019 8:33 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

With advances in aerodynamics and electronics Stella Era is quite amazing.  I 
would really love to build something like this.  I suspect just enlarging the 
vehicle to a bit larger proportions would allow for a larger solar panel and 
thus more power.  However the challenge would be keeping weight down to make 
this happen. If you could get 3kw of solar on the roof and have a sub 1500 
pound weight 400 mile range will be possible with a pretty good cruising speed 
in full sunlight.  
https://www.3dprintingmedia.network/solar-team-eindhoven-3d-printing-stella-era-vehicle/
  Lawrence Rhodes
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[EVDL] Stella Era. I want one.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

With advances in aerodynamics and electronics Stella Era is quite amazing.  I 
would really love to build something like this.  I suspect just enlarging the 
vehicle to a bit larger proportions would allow for a larger solar panel and 
thus more power.  However the challenge would be keeping weight down to make 
this happen. If you could get 3kw of solar on the roof and have a sub 1500 
pound weight 400 mile range will be possible with a pretty good cruising speed 
in full sunlight.  
https://www.3dprintingmedia.network/solar-team-eindhoven-3d-printing-stella-era-vehicle/
  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Considering buying a used EV. Suggestions requested.

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

Oops, sorry, I suggested a new EV and not a used one.  Ignore me. :-(

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Considering buying a used EV. Suggestions (Leaf!)

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

No question  about it.  Get a Leaf!  Number one EV sold worldwide.
With over 5 billion driver miles, they know they work and Maintenance
should be well understood.

With your daily mileage of under 20 miles a day, then even the erarlier
models with ranges of 100 miles (or maybe down to 90 miles for old ones
(and 60 miles in winter) should still do you fine.  And a sizeable area in
the back.   Just 3 year old off-lease in brand-new-looking condition cost
around $9k.

Older ones can be found for $6k.

Bob, WB4APR
Author:  http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Chris Richard via EV
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 3:42 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' 
Cc: Chris Richard 
Subject: [EVDL] Considering buying a used EV. Suggestions requested.

All:

First, let me explain that I'm not an active contributor to this list and
may inadvertently be raising questions that have been discussed before. I
looked in message footers to see how I might search the archive and found
nothing. So, if this has been explicated before, I apologize and request a
pointer to where I might find the earlier comments.
Here's my question:
I am nearing the lease termination date on my second Fiat 500e. This time,
I'm considering buying either a used 500e or some other EV.
The leases are fine, but I'd rather not pay another big deposit and end up
with no equity in another three years.
Of course, the big questions are range and battery life. My two cars have
done fine on range through the six years I've leased them. I typically put
500 miles or so a month on them, and expect to return this second car at
around 15,000 miles, which was the same usage for my last one. That's
about typical of the cars I see offered for sale at around $8,000 without
Fiat's absurd residual prices.
What happens to range beyond three years and beyond 15,000 miles is a
mystery.
I'm in California. I may possibly relocate to Vermont in the next few
years. It's my understanding that California law mandates a 10
year/150,000-mile warranty on ev batteries, but I'll bet there are plenty
of loopholes. I'd like to know about that, about options and questions to
ask on extended warranties, on the merits of buying from a dealer vs. a
private party, etc.
Finally, as much as I've liked the 500e, I'm not wedded to it. It would be
nice to be able to carry lumber home or to have less fear that my dog, who
is so afraid of cars that he can only travel in a crate, might get
seriously hurt or killed  if somebody rear-ends me. So I'd like more room,
but have never been that impressed with the other EVs available in my
price range.
Any suggestions appreciated, and again, sorry if this has already been
explored on this list.

CR

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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

Thanks for the detailed Lynch history.  It sounds like the business world 
has been a disappointment for Mr Lynch, not that that's especially uncommon 
for inventors and EV people.  :-(

Sorry to hear of your bike mishap, and I hope you're feeling better now.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Considering buying a used EV. Suggestions requested.

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 21 Aug 2019 at 12:42, Chris Richard via EV wrote:

>  I apologize and request a pointer to
> where I might find the earlier comments.

No apology needed.  The EVDL archive is here:

http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html

> It would be nice to be able to carry lumber home or to have less fear
> that my dog, who is so afraid of cars that he can only travel in a
> crate, might get seriously hurt or killed  if somebody rear-ends me. 

Not to dismiss your concerns, or to delve into something that's none of my 
business, but I have to say that if my dog were afraid of cars, he'd only 
ride in one when it was absolutely necessary.  I'm pretty safety oriented, 
but that would be infrequent enough that I wouldn't be too concerned about 
the risk of a collision.  Still, everybody's comfort level with such things 
is different, and maybe I'm not typical.

It seems as if many more "crossover" (tall wagon) vehicles are being sold as 
factory EV conversions (EPTO == Electric Power Train Option) these days, 
despite the fact that heavier vehicles need much larger and more expensive 
batteries to achieve good range.

It's way too big for me, and might feel awkward to you too, after driving a 
500, but maybe something like a Hyundai Kona would work for you.  Other than 
the size, one benefit for you might be that Hyundai tout a "lifetime" 
battery warranty on it. Check the warranty terms, though, and make sure you 
could still get it serviced if you took it to Vermont.

Others here may have different or better suggestions.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 19:25, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:


> If memory serves, Lynch and some friends formed Lemco to manufacture the
> motors in (I think) the 1990s.  I got the impression that they were nearly
> hand-built in the early years.

They've always essentially been hand built.

Cedric fell out with the Lynch Motor Company (Lynch Motors / LMC),
with whom he was only even an employee.
They'd make exaggerated claims about the performance of the motor,
like peak power ratings that were only available for a few seconds.

That led to the formation of Lemco, who were later bought by their
biggest customer, ASMO karts. Again Cedric was only an employee and
his face didn't fit well with the new management. He won an industrial
tribunal for 'constructive dismissal' and the parent company put the
motor department into receivership in order to avoid paying him the
compensation, buying back the business from the receiver soon after.

> In the early 2000s Cedric Lynch was connected to (or perhaps co-founded?) 
> Agni Motors.

AGNI was set up by Cedric's oldest friend, Arvind Rabaddia, with most
of the production being done in India, where Arvind has family
connections. AGNI of course won the inaugural EV race at the Isle of
Mann TT. Duke video has a DVD that's well worth watching;
https://www.dukevideo.com/prd1773/Charge-DVD


> Agni reportedly merged with another company to become Saietta Group.

AGNI have indeed merged with Saietta and Arvind and Cedric currently
work there. Last year I was asked to visit them on Cedric's
recommendation and was offered some contract work. I can't say much as
I'm bound by a non disclosure agreement. I never took up the offerof
work. I wouldn't have been able to cope with the daily commute as I
was still recovering from a pretty serious motorcycle crash (
https://youtu.be/Fn2DZrfncT0 ) and I don't think they would have paid
a sensible daily rate.

> Saietta also manufacture e-motorcycles.

I think they build a total of three examples of that hunch fronted
£45,000 monstrosity, plus another 'race' bike. They still keep
displaying the increasingly decrepit bikes at Industry events like
CENEX LCV.

> According to a note at the link Paul posted, Lynch has tried to get Saietta
> to commercialize his hyper-efficient EV, but they've shown zero interest.

Part of the deal with Cedric joining Saietta was that they'd do so,
but it won't happen. The company follows a familiar pattern of
obtaining grant money, seend funding and venture capital without
really producing much. They spent something like £1.4million
developing a controller for Cedric's motor. It has a CAN bus interface
that can only be used to change parameters and not to interface it to,
for example, a BMS. They're now dropping manufacture of the brushed
motor and already do not supply replacement brushes. They have a
brushless motor in the same form factor, but I'm not sure just how
close it is to reality.


-- 
Paul Compton
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel)
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[EVDL] Considering buying a used EV. Suggestions requested.

[Chris Richard via EV]

All:

First, let me explain that I'm not an active contributor to this list and may 
inadvertently be raising questions that have been discussed before. I looked in 
message footers to see how I might search the archive and found nothing. So, if 
this has been explicated before, I apologize and request a pointer to where I 
might find the earlier comments.
Here's my question:
I am nearing the lease termination date on my second Fiat 500e. This time, I'm 
considering buying either a used 500e or some other EV.
The leases are fine, but I'd rather not pay another big deposit and end up with 
no equity in another three years. 
Of course, the big questions are range and battery life. My two cars have done 
fine on range through the six years I've leased them. I typically put 500 miles 
or so a month on them, and expect to return this second car at around 15,000 
miles, which was the same usage for my last one. That's about typical of the 
cars I see offered for sale at around $8,000 without Fiat's absurd residual 
prices.
What happens to range beyond three years and beyond 15,000 miles is a mystery. 
I'm in California. I may possibly relocate to Vermont in the next few years. 
It's my understanding that California law mandates a 10 year/150,000-mile 
warranty on ev batteries, but I'll bet there are plenty of loopholes. I'd like 
to know about that, about options and questions to ask on extended warranties, 
on the merits of buying from a dealer vs. a private party, etc. 
Finally, as much as I've liked the 500e, I'm not wedded to it. It would be nice 
to be able to carry lumber home or to have less fear that my dog, who is so 
afraid of cars that he can only travel in a crate, might get seriously hurt or 
killed  if somebody rear-ends me. So I'd like more room, but have never been 
that impressed with the other EVs available in my price range.
Any suggestions appreciated, and again, sorry if this has already been explored 
on this list.

CR

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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[Lee Hart via EV]

From: EVDL Administrator via EV 
>I remember reading of Cedric Lynch's motor and vehicle many years ago and am 
>pleased to hear that he and it are still active.  Lynch is a genius

Yes, he proves that the spark of genius is not dead, and that the lone inventor 
can still accomplish great things.

I suspect the "balsa wood and duct tape" comments came from the police officer 
or reporter, applying a bit of creative license.

The late Dave Cloud of Washington state had a similar penchant for EVs that did 
the most with the least. His "Dolphin" EV is another example of innovation at 
work.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 21 Aug 2019 at 11:30, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

> Are those bread and groceries in the back?

Looks like it.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[Russ Sciville via EV]

 I have had the pleasure of meeting Cedric a few times whilst at BVS meets.
Such an incredibly clever guy to design those pancake style motors in his 
parents backyard. I use them on my ride on mower conversions and find them 
unburstable despite trying very hard.The design replaces vertical shaft mower 
engines with space to spare.
There certainly are few if any better motors on the market. Not bad for a self 
taught inventor.
Russ
On Wednesday, 21 August 2019, 16:14:49 BST, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 21 Aug 2019 at 10:15, Paul Compton via EV wrote:

> There are quite a few pictures of this machine on
> http://bikeweb.com/image/tid/57

Ah, so that's it!  Well done.

I remember reading of Cedric Lynch's motor and vehicle many years ago and am 
pleased to hear that he and it are still active.  Lynch is a genius

Thanks for the report.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Are those bread and groceries in the back?
BOb

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 7:37 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: brucedp5 
Subject: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape




https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/20/police-stop-homemade-car-made-balsa-wood-duct-tape-10599191/
Police stop homemade car made out of balsa wood and duct tape
20 Aug 2019  Basit Mahmood

[images  / Anglia Press Agency
https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426911-e1566288148535.jpg
The three wheeler was made out of duct tape and balsa wood

https://i1.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426901.jpg
Bedfordshire Police say the vehicle didn’t cause an obstruction to other
road users ]

[image]  The officer who pulled the strange vehicle over admitted he still
didn’t know what it was

Traffic cops were left stunned after they had to pullover a vehicle that
resembled a small boat on Britain’s busiest motorway.

Made out of balsa wood and duct tape, officers described the electric
vehicle as the most ‘unusual’ they’ve had to stop in 26 years.

The three wheeler was spotted on the M25 in Bedfordshire on Sunday.

The officer who pulled the vehicle over tweeted: ‘All checked and in order,
although still not convinced I know what it is.’

Social media users were quick to offer their own explanations about what
they thought the vehicle was, from a modified motorcycle to a German made
vehicle.

Another added that it looked like a ‘Co-Op home shopping delivery vehicle’,
while others questioned how it could be considered safe.

Bedfordshire police were able to confirm that the vehicle was approved and
registered by the DVLA, and is in fact a motorbike with a plastic shell
built around it.

Sergeant Stephen Andrews, from the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and
Hertfordshire Roads Policing Unit, told Metro.co.uk: ‘This is certainly not
a vehicle that is seen very often on our roads, but after road side
inspection we couldn’t find anything that would prevent the rider to
continue his journey.

‘The vehicle was keeping up with other traffic and didn’t cause any
obstruction to other road users.

‘The owner made sure that he fulfilled all the safety regulation as well as
keeping the insurance, MOT and tax in date.’
[© metro.co.uk]


https://www.foxnews.com/auto/police-bizarre-electric-vehicle-duck-tape
Police pull over bizarre electric vehicle made from 'duck tape'
Police in southern England were baffled on Monday by the most bizarre
electric vehicle they’d ever seen.

The tiny white two-wheeler looked like an airplane cockpit without wings or
a tail and had a body constructed from balsa wood and “duck tape.” But the
most surprising thing about it may have been that it was found to be
perfectly legal.

An officer from the Beds, Cambs & Herts Roads Policing Unit tweeted photos
of the vehicle, which turned out to be a custom electric motorcycle that was
registered and insured.

“The most unusual vehicle I’ve stopped on a motorway in 26 years. All
checked and in order, although I’m still not convinced I know what it is,”
another officer wrote.

One commenter said she spotted it on the highway a couple of weeks prior and
posted a photo showing the driver in action.

As if the car weren’t enough of a conversation starter on its own, some
commenters took issue with the officer describing the material used as “duck
tape,” which reignited a long-running debate over whether “duck” or “duct”
is the proper name.
[© foxnews.com]




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 21 Aug 2019 at 10:15, Paul Compton via EV wrote:

> There are quite a few pictures of this machine on
> http://bikeweb.com/image/tid/57

Ah, so that's it!  Well done.

I remember reading of Cedric Lynch's motor and vehicle many years ago and am 
pleased to hear that he and it are still active.  Lynch is a genius

Thanks for the report.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Fascinating stuff, thanks Paul!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 Aug 2019, at 10:15, Paul Compton via EV  wrote:
> 
> This is of course, Cedric Lynch's machine. It's been on the road, with
> one major rebuild due to an accident, since the early 1990s.
> 
> This is 'Lynch' as in the eponymous motor. The prototype motors were
> built in the garden shed belonging to Cedric's parents and initially,
> lacking access to 'magnetic steel' the laminations were made of metal
> recovered from tin cans. The design of the motor was simply based on
> the shapes that could be cut with simple hand tools.
> 
> When I first met Cedric and encountered this machine, it was running a
> single 165Ah 12v semi deep-cycle battery. The controller was just a
> two step system with a starting resistor, with most of the speed
> control being done with a Derailleur type gearing system. Another
> clever Cedric design, this used two gear 'blocks', with the front one
> facing the opposite way to the rear. The chain was stepped across both
> blocks at the same time, keeping the chain run straight and at nearly
> the same tension. This allowed downshifting to achieve regen braking
> and in this form, Cedric had achieved a real world journey of around
> 120 miles, albeit at a low average speed of under 25mph.
> 
> The information from the BVS at that time, was that electronic motor
> control had poor efficiency and that might have been true of the SCR
> controllers available used at the time (although you've always got to
> watch out for a system with apparently poor PEAK efficiency, actually
> having better AVERAGE efficiency under the operating conditions). I
> encouraged Cedric to go to a much higher voltage and to adopt a modern
> high frequency MOSFET controller. He did so, first I think going to 36
> and the 48 Volt. I recall him using Optima Yellowtops and also Exide
> Orbitals, but changed to Thundersky Lithium cells when these became
> available. With a nominal 100Ah at 48 Volt, Cedric could now make the
> journey between the Lynch Motor Company premises in Honiton, Devon and
> his home in Potter's Bar, in Hertfordshire. That's a trip of around
> 150 miles and Cedric could average nearly 50mph. A 60 volt pack, made
> up from old cells that now have excessive internal resistance, is
> charged by a couple of PV panels on Cedric's shed roof and the vehicle
> charged from them by simply paralleling the two packs.
> 
> As far as I know, there is no Balsa wood used in it's construction. It
> has a lightweight steel tube frame and uses a combination of light
> motorcycle and mountain bicycle components in the wheels. The front
> suspension is a variation of a virtual steering axis system, similar
> to that used on the OEC Duplex of the 1930's.
> 
> There are quite a few pictures of this machine on
> http://bikeweb.com/image/tid/57
> 
>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 00:46, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/20/police-stop-homemade-car-made-balsa-wood-duct-tape-10599191/
>> Police stop homemade car made out of balsa wood and duct tape
>> 20 Aug 2019  Basit Mahmood
>> 
>> [images  / Anglia Press Agency
>> https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426911-e1566288148535.jpg
>> The three wheeler was made out of duct tape and balsa wood
>> 
>> https://i1.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426901.jpg
>> Bedfordshire Police say the vehicle didn’t cause an obstruction to other
>> road users
>> ]
>> 
>> [image]  The officer who pulled the strange vehicle over admitted he still
>> didn’t know what it was
>> 
>> Traffic cops were left stunned after they had to pullover a vehicle that
>> resembled a small boat on Britain’s busiest motorway.
>> 
>> Made out of balsa wood and duct tape, officers described the electric
>> vehicle as the most ‘unusual’ they’ve had to stop in 26 years.
>> 
>> The three wheeler was spotted on the M25 in Bedfordshire on Sunday.
>> 
>> The officer who pulled the vehicle over tweeted: ‘All checked and in order,
>> although still not convinced I know what it is.’
>> 
>> Social media users were quick to offer their own explanations about what
>> they thought the vehicle was, from a modified motorcycle to a German made
>> vehicle.
>> 
>> Another added that it looked like a ‘Co-Op home shopping delivery vehicle’,
>> while others questioned how it could be considered safe.
>> 
>> Bedfordshire police were able to confirm that the vehicle was approved and
>> registered by the DVLA, and is in fact a motorbike with a plastic shell
>> built around it.
>> 
>> Sergeant Stephen Andrews, from the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and
>> Hertfordshire Roads Policing Unit, told Metro.co.uk: ‘This is certainly not
>> a vehicle that is seen very often on our roads, but after road side
>> inspection we couldn’t find anything that would prevent the rider to
>> continue his journey.
>> 
>> ‘The vehicle was keeping up with other traffic and didn’t cause any
>> obstruction to other road users.

Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[Paul Compton via EV]

This is of course, Cedric Lynch's machine. It's been on the road, with
one major rebuild due to an accident, since the early 1990s.

This is 'Lynch' as in the eponymous motor. The prototype motors were
built in the garden shed belonging to Cedric's parents and initially,
lacking access to 'magnetic steel' the laminations were made of metal
recovered from tin cans. The design of the motor was simply based on
the shapes that could be cut with simple hand tools.

When I first met Cedric and encountered this machine, it was running a
single 165Ah 12v semi deep-cycle battery. The controller was just a
two step system with a starting resistor, with most of the speed
control being done with a Derailleur type gearing system. Another
clever Cedric design, this used two gear 'blocks', with the front one
facing the opposite way to the rear. The chain was stepped across both
blocks at the same time, keeping the chain run straight and at nearly
the same tension. This allowed downshifting to achieve regen braking
and in this form, Cedric had achieved a real world journey of around
120 miles, albeit at a low average speed of under 25mph.

The information from the BVS at that time, was that electronic motor
control had poor efficiency and that might have been true of the SCR
controllers available used at the time (although you've always got to
watch out for a system with apparently poor PEAK efficiency, actually
having better AVERAGE efficiency under the operating conditions). I
encouraged Cedric to go to a much higher voltage and to adopt a modern
high frequency MOSFET controller. He did so, first I think going to 36
and the 48 Volt. I recall him using Optima Yellowtops and also Exide
Orbitals, but changed to Thundersky Lithium cells when these became
available. With a nominal 100Ah at 48 Volt, Cedric could now make the
journey between the Lynch Motor Company premises in Honiton, Devon and
his home in Potter's Bar, in Hertfordshire. That's a trip of around
150 miles and Cedric could average nearly 50mph. A 60 volt pack, made
up from old cells that now have excessive internal resistance, is
charged by a couple of PV panels on Cedric's shed roof and the vehicle
charged from them by simply paralleling the two packs.

As far as I know, there is no Balsa wood used in it's construction. It
has a lightweight steel tube frame and uses a combination of light
motorcycle and mountain bicycle components in the wheels. The front
suspension is a variation of a virtual steering axis system, similar
to that used on the OEC Duplex of the 1930's.

There are quite a few pictures of this machine on
http://bikeweb.com/image/tid/57

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 00:46, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>
>
> https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/20/police-stop-homemade-car-made-balsa-wood-duct-tape-10599191/
> Police stop homemade car made out of balsa wood and duct tape
> 20 Aug 2019  Basit Mahmood
>
> [images  / Anglia Press Agency
> https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426911-e1566288148535.jpg
> The three wheeler was made out of duct tape and balsa wood
>
> https://i1.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426901.jpg
> Bedfordshire Police say the vehicle didn’t cause an obstruction to other
> road users
> ]
>
> [image]  The officer who pulled the strange vehicle over admitted he still
> didn’t know what it was
>
> Traffic cops were left stunned after they had to pullover a vehicle that
> resembled a small boat on Britain’s busiest motorway.
>
> Made out of balsa wood and duct tape, officers described the electric
> vehicle as the most ‘unusual’ they’ve had to stop in 26 years.
>
> The three wheeler was spotted on the M25 in Bedfordshire on Sunday.
>
> The officer who pulled the vehicle over tweeted: ‘All checked and in order,
> although still not convinced I know what it is.’
>
> Social media users were quick to offer their own explanations about what
> they thought the vehicle was, from a modified motorcycle to a German made
> vehicle.
>
> Another added that it looked like a ‘Co-Op home shopping delivery vehicle’,
> while others questioned how it could be considered safe.
>
> Bedfordshire police were able to confirm that the vehicle was approved and
> registered by the DVLA, and is in fact a motorbike with a plastic shell
> built around it.
>
> Sergeant Stephen Andrews, from the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and
> Hertfordshire Roads Policing Unit, told Metro.co.uk: ‘This is certainly not
> a vehicle that is seen very often on our roads, but after road side
> inspection we couldn’t find anything that would prevent the rider to
> continue his journey.
>
> ‘The vehicle was keeping up with other traffic and didn’t cause any
> obstruction to other road users.
>
> ‘The owner made sure that he fulfilled all the safety regulation as well as
> keeping the insurance, MOT and tax in date.’
> [© metro.co.uk]
>
>
> https://www.foxnews.com/auto/police-bizarre-electric-vehicle-duck-tape
> Police pull over bizarre electric vehicle made