Re: [EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather
Heat in a lithium ion battery is from two sources electrochemical operation and Joule heating. A way to calculate the battery heat is using a thermodynamic energy balance shown in equation below where the first term is the heat generation due to Joule heating and the second term is the heat generation due to entropy changes. q= I(U-V) - I(T(dU/dV) Bernadi D, Powlikowski E and Newman J 1985 A general energy balance for battery systems J. Electrochem. Soc. 132 5-12 Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 9, 2019, at 5:23 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > Yes, it's the chemistry that results in slower ion transfer. But that results > in an electrical effect. I believe that effect is lower voltage across the > cell. Thus, how do you explain the fact that higher current, I**R, means more > heat ? > > Peri > > -- Original Message -- > From: "paul dove" > To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" > > Sent: 09-Sep-19 2:59:54 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather > >> You are confusing electric current with a chemical process. >> >> Ohms law does not apply in a chemical process. >> >> Low temperatures slow the chemical reaction and charge transfer velocity, >> which leads to the decrease of ionic conductivity in the electrolytes and >> lithium-ion diffusion within the electrodes >> <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1002007118307536#bib53>. >> Such decrease will result in the reduction of energy and power capability, >> and sometimes even performance failure. >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Does anyone have a more in-depth explanation why li ion cells perform >>> poorly in cold weather ? It's well known that your range goes down when the >>> battery is cold. Lots of writers talk about the phenomena and advise you >>> about it but fail to give any real explanations. I think this conversation >>> may have come up a long while ago but it's hard to search for. >>> >>> I did a bit of research. Some authors talk about "intercalation", which >>> happens below freezing. Intercalation is when the anode becomes plated with >>> lithium ions instead of the ions being absorbed into the anode. Obviously, >>> that permanently ruins the battery. So, this is irrelevant regarding poor >>> range in cold weather. >>> >>> I did find one article that might be relevant, though. >>> >>> https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i10/Rechargeable-battery-weathers-extreme-cold-conditions.html >>> >>> They claim the electrolyte becomes viscous, slowing down the ion movement. >>> That's about all they say. But, I'll add my thoughts. >>> >>> If the electrolyte is viscous, then I suspect the voltage potential drops. >>> Since watts-hours (energy) is V * Ah, you have less energy available, >>> assuming that the Ah is constant. But, what about internal resistance ? For >>> the same driving behavior, you'll need higher amps at a lower voltage. >>> Resistance loss is I^2 * R, so that loss should go up significantly. I'm >>> getting into a trap here: why doesn't the increased resistance loss heat up >>> the battery ? The nominal resistance is extremely low, so maybe even at an >>> elevated state there isn't enough heat to affect the electrolyte's >>> viscosity. Don't know. >>> >>> Here's another article that talks about electrolyte. They talk about >>> preventing decomposition of electrolyte. >>> https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/green-tech/fuel-cells/lithium-additives >>> >>> Obviously, the other major factors are cabin heat and defrost. >>> >>> Peri >>> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/a522d033/attachment.html> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather
Ions are not the same as electrons. Ions are what moves _inside_ a battery. Electrons are what moves _outside_ a battery. Electrons travel at near the speed of light. Ions travel at far, far lower speeds, (less than the speed of sound.) Ion must diffuse through the solid or liquid in which they are surrounded. Ions are indeed governed by the chemistry around them. Essentially, a battery internally rusts, or corrodes, and you exploit that electro-chemistry to get electricity. The Arrhenius equation is what governs the chemical reactions that drive the ions from one plate to the other inside a cell. There is a strong temperature component to this equation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation The higher the temperature, the faster the reaction would like to occur. In a cell, what holds back the chemical reaction (corrosion) is the lack of electrons to feed the ionic reaction. If you give the reaction all the electrons it wants, then the Arrhenius equation governs the speed of the ion production, and the geometry of the cell governs the distance that the ions must diffuse. Bill D. On 9/10/2019 10:23 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Yes, it's the chemistry that results in slower ion transfer. But that results in an electrical effect. I believe that effect is lower voltage across the cell. Thus, how do you explain the fact that higher current, I**R, means more heat ? Peri -- Original Message -- From: "paul dove" To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 09-Sep-19 2:59:54 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather You are confusing electric current with a chemical process. Ohms law does not apply in a chemical process. Low temperatures slow the chemical reaction and charge transfer velocity, which leads to the decrease of ionic conductivity in the electrolytes and lithium-ion diffusion within the electrodes <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1002007118307536#bib53>. Such decrease will result in the reduction of energy and power capability, and sometimes even performance failure. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Hi, Does anyone have a more in-depth explanation why li ion cells perform poorly in cold weather ? It's well known that your range goes down when the battery is cold. Lots of writers talk about the phenomena and advise you about it but fail to give any real explanations. I think this conversation may have come up a long while ago but it's hard to search for. I did a bit of research. Some authors talk about "intercalation", which happens below freezing. Intercalation is when the anode becomes plated with lithium ions instead of the ions being absorbed into the anode. Obviously, that permanently ruins the battery. So, this is irrelevant regarding poor range in cold weather. I did find one article that might be relevant, though. https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i10/Rechargeable-battery-weathers-extreme-cold-conditions.html They claim the electrolyte becomes viscous, slowing down the ion movement. That's about all they say. But, I'll add my thoughts. If the electrolyte is viscous, then I suspect the voltage potential drops. Since watts-hours (energy) is V * Ah, you have less energy available, assuming that the Ah is constant. But, what about internal resistance ? For the same driving behavior, you'll need higher amps at a lower voltage. Resistance loss is I^2 * R, so that loss should go up significantly. I'm getting into a trap here: why doesn't the increased resistance loss heat up the battery ? The nominal resistance is extremely low, so maybe even at an elevated state there isn't enough heat to affect the electrolyte's viscosity. Don't know. Here's another article that talks about electrolyte. They talk about preventing decomposition of electrolyte. https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/green-tech/fuel-cells/lithium-additives Obviously, the other major factors are cabin heat and defrost. Peri ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/a522d033/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev
Re: [EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather
You are confusing electric current with a chemical process. Ohms law does not apply in a chemical process. Low temperatures slow the chemical reaction and charge transfer velocity, which leads to the decrease of ionic conductivity in the electrolytes and lithium-ion diffusion within the electrodes. Such decrease will result in the reduction of energy and power capability, and sometimes even performance failure. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Hi, Does anyone have a more in-depth explanation why li ion cells perform poorly in cold weather ? It's well known that your range goes down when the battery is cold. Lots of writers talk about the phenomena and advise you about it but fail to give any real explanations. I think this conversation may have come up a long while ago but it's hard to search for. I did a bit of research. Some authors talk about "intercalation", which happens below freezing. Intercalation is when the anode becomes plated with lithium ions instead of the ions being absorbed into the anode. Obviously, that permanently ruins the battery. So, this is irrelevant regarding poor range in cold weather. I did find one article that might be relevant, though. https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i10/Rechargeable-battery-weathers-extreme-cold-conditions.html They claim the electrolyte becomes viscous, slowing down the ion movement. That's about all they say. But, I'll add my thoughts. If the electrolyte is viscous, then I suspect the voltage potential drops. Since watts-hours (energy) is V * Ah, you have less energy available, assuming that the Ah is constant. But, what about internal resistance ? For the same driving behavior, you'll need higher amps at a lower voltage. Resistance loss is I^2 * R, so that loss should go up significantly. I'm getting into a trap here: why doesn't the increased resistance loss heat up the battery ? The nominal resistance is extremely low, so maybe even at an elevated state there isn't enough heat to affect the electrolyte's viscosity. Don't know. Here's another article that talks about electrolyte. They talk about preventing decomposition of electrolyte. https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/green-tech/fuel-cells/lithium-additives Obviously, the other major factors are cabin heat and defrost. Peri ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/fe1b9187/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather
Yes, it's the chemistry that results in slower ion transfer. But that results in an electrical effect. I believe that effect is lower voltage across the cell. Thus, how do you explain the fact that higher current, I**R, means more heat ? Peri -- Original Message -- From: "paul dove" To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 09-Sep-19 2:59:54 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather You are confusing electric current with a chemical process. Ohms law does not apply in a chemical process. Low temperatures slow the chemical reaction and charge transfer velocity, which leads to the decrease of ionic conductivity in the electrolytes and lithium-ion diffusion within the electrodes <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1002007118307536#bib53>. Such decrease will result in the reduction of energy and power capability, and sometimes even performance failure. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Hi, Does anyone have a more in-depth explanation why li ion cells perform poorly in cold weather ? It's well known that your range goes down when the battery is cold. Lots of writers talk about the phenomena and advise you about it but fail to give any real explanations. I think this conversation may have come up a long while ago but it's hard to search for. I did a bit of research. Some authors talk about "intercalation", which happens below freezing. Intercalation is when the anode becomes plated with lithium ions instead of the ions being absorbed into the anode. Obviously, that permanently ruins the battery. So, this is irrelevant regarding poor range in cold weather. I did find one article that might be relevant, though. https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i10/Rechargeable-battery-weathers-extreme-cold-conditions.html They claim the electrolyte becomes viscous, slowing down the ion movement. That's about all they say. But, I'll add my thoughts. If the electrolyte is viscous, then I suspect the voltage potential drops. Since watts-hours (energy) is V * Ah, you have less energy available, assuming that the Ah is constant. But, what about internal resistance ? For the same driving behavior, you'll need higher amps at a lower voltage. Resistance loss is I^2 * R, so that loss should go up significantly. I'm getting into a trap here: why doesn't the increased resistance loss heat up the battery ? The nominal resistance is extremely low, so maybe even at an elevated state there isn't enough heat to affect the electrolyte's viscosity. Don't know. Here's another article that talks about electrolyte. They talk about preventing decomposition of electrolyte. https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/green-tech/fuel-cells/lithium-additives Obviously, the other major factors are cabin heat and defrost. Peri ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/a522d033/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM's 1st e-truck only sold for 1yr> like an aircraft taking off r:39mi@60mph
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/factsheets/zev_regulation_factsheet_082418.pdf Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:39 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV > wrote: > >> On 9 Sep 2019 at 7:34, paul dove via EV wrote: >> >> Yes, itTMs was great but only because the government forced them and they >> quit as soon as the law changed > > Please show me evidence that "The Government" (always the mean old bad guys, > eh?) forced GM to build the E10 pickup. > > By the way, it was essentially an EV1 drivetrain, driving the front wheels, > shoehorned into an E10 chassis. Interesting layout. > > One thing more: the law didn't just change. The automakers, GM included, > lobbied to kill California's Braude Initiative. > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA > EVDL Administrator > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not > reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/fc37ca7b/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Toyota: 90% of 2020 Olympics Fleet to Be Electrified
https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/toyota-90-2020-olympics-fleet-be-electrified?NL=WAW-04=WAW-04_20190909_WAW-04_854=42=article_3_rid=CPENT10958516_campaign=22249_medium=email=1c2f1377cb9d47188562bfd6e0460a5b_source=26386 Toyota: 90% of 2020 Olympics Fleet to Be Electrified The automaker says it aims to achieve the lowest emissions target level of any official vehicle fleet used at the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Alan Harman | Sep 09, 2019 Toyota is supplying a full lineup of electrified vehicles for next year’s Olympic and Paralympic Games in Tokyo and says the fleet will include vehicles developed specifically to support the two events. About 90% of the vehicles it provides will be electrified, and Toyota says it aims to achieve the lowest emissions target level of any official vehicle fleet used at the Olympic and Paralympic Games. In all, the automaker will provide about 3,700 mobility devices and/or vehicles. Electrified vehicles include hybrids, fuel-cell EVs such as the hydrogen-powered Mirai, plug-in hybrids such as the Prius PHEV, battery EVs as well as the e-Palette and Toyota Concept-i, which have been developed either specifically for use at the games or as unique versions of vehicles. Toyota will provide about 500 FCEVs and about 850 BEVs, the largest of any fleet for a Games to date. Toyota says preliminary calculations suggest the carbon dioxide emitted by the commercial fleet for Tokyo will average less than 80 g/km, roughly 50% of the typical amount when compared to a similarly sized fleet of mostly conventional gasoline and diesel models. All commercial vehicles for staff transportation support will be equipped with Toyota’s preventive safety technologies, including Toyota Safety Sense and Lexus Safety System. Nearly all will be equipped with intelligent clearance sonar, designed to assist with braking in the event of unintended acceleration. Aside from the official fleet, Toyota also will support the games' operations with other vehicles, including the Sora mass-transit fuel-cell bus, and assistive vehicles that help lift passengers into their seats or are equipped with an attached slope giving passengers with wheelchairs access to the vehicle using the back door. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/edc06a9b/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Ford Ranger EV
Not all were destroyed. Ed Thorpe in Alameda,CA has one. I bet if you search the EV photo album you will come up with many. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/b05c4fd8/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] OT: NTSB report on Tesla Autopilot
Got it. Thanks for clarifying the NTSB v. author elements. Very important to understand that distinction. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Sep 9, 2019, at 8:49 AM, paul dove wrote: > > The report just summarized the facts. It is out for review until November for > comments. No conclusions were drawn. All the speculation in this article > derived from the author and that was his version of the cause and > shortcomings of Auto-Pilot not of NTSB. > > > On Monday, September 9, 2019, 7:20:27 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz > wrote: > > > Yes, I agree it was well-written. It did have all those things that you > mentioned, but I don’t think that it was *his* version, but the version > released by the NTSB. > > I haven’t read the NTSB report, so maybe he didn’t accurately summarize their > conclusions. > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > > > On Sep 9, 2019, at 5:12 AM, paul dove wrote: > > > > This guy sounds like a professional article writer. > > > > Last I looked the driver is still responsible for what his car does even if > > I believed his version of what happened. My Tesla’s have always stopped and > > warned me in this sort of situation and yes there have been obstructions > > that popped up because someone changed lanes. The car always reacted before > > I could. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV > >> wrote: > >> > >> OT, because while a Tesla was involved, it’s not really about EVs. I’m > >> posting because of the tremendous interest in the coming (?) autopilot age. > >> > >> https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/09/06/ntsb-report-on-tesla-autopilot-accident-shows-whats-inside-and-its-not-pretty-for-fsd/amp/ > >> > >> > >> - Mark > >> > >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> ___ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > > > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/a389f3b6/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather
Hi, Does anyone have a more in-depth explanation why li ion cells perform poorly in cold weather ? It's well known that your range goes down when the battery is cold. Lots of writers talk about the phenomena and advise you about it but fail to give any real explanations. I think this conversation may have come up a long while ago but it's hard to search for. I did a bit of research. Some authors talk about "intercalation", which happens below freezing. Intercalation is when the anode becomes plated with lithium ions instead of the ions being absorbed into the anode. Obviously, that permanently ruins the battery. So, this is irrelevant regarding poor range in cold weather. I did find one article that might be relevant, though. https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i10/Rechargeable-battery-weathers-extreme-cold-conditions.html They claim the electrolyte becomes viscous, slowing down the ion movement. That's about all they say. But, I'll add my thoughts. If the electrolyte is viscous, then I suspect the voltage potential drops. Since watts-hours (energy) is V * Ah, you have less energy available, assuming that the Ah is constant. But, what about internal resistance ? For the same driving behavior, you'll need higher amps at a lower voltage. Resistance loss is I^2 * R, so that loss should go up significantly. I'm getting into a trap here: why doesn't the increased resistance loss heat up the battery ? The nominal resistance is extremely low, so maybe even at an elevated state there isn't enough heat to affect the electrolyte's viscosity. Don't know. Here's another article that talks about electrolyte. They talk about preventing decomposition of electrolyte. https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/green-tech/fuel-cells/lithium-additives Obviously, the other major factors are cabin heat and defrost. Peri ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM's 1st e-truck only sold for 1yr> like an aircraft taking off r:39mi@60mph
On 9 Sep 2019 at 12:39, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: > One thing more: the law didn't just change. The automakers, GM included, > lobbied to kill California's Braude Initiative. PS: They also sued California and eventually settled out of court. The Bush administration's justice department actually filed an amicus brief siding with the automakers. The automakers sued again when California added CO2 emissions standards, making the somewhat dubious claim that CA was trying to regulate fuel efficiency, and that that was the EPA's prerogative. They lost that suit. Currently CA and several other states are suing the federal government for weakening earlier emissions rules. For their part, the feds are threatening to sue the automakers and CA for antitrust violations because CA negotiated directly with the automakers to agree voluntarily on CO2 reductions. The feds' priority is pretty clear here: KEEP BURNING THAT OIL, so our lobbysts and donors keep getting richer, and also keep giving us money. So much for "big bad government makes us." In this scenario, the only winners are the lawyers. It certainly isn't those of us who have to live on this polluted earth, watching the CO2:O2 ratio increase. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Carvana's 8story glass Leaf EV vending-machine building in Ontario-CA
mpanies. Using
> the symbol CVNA, stock is traded on the New York Stock Exchange. Carvana
> joins a host of other online companies such as cars.com, cargurus.com,
> ebaymotors.com, vroom.com, carsoup.com and others, including CarMax, which
> has both online and physical sites.
>
> Carvana claims its prices are set $1,000 below Kelley Blue Book values. “We
> don’t have sales reps or a large overhead,” O’Hara said. A car can be
> purchased in as little as 30 minutes, that includes time online buying the
> car and picking it up at the vending machine, she said. Prices are fixed.
> Haggling and negotiating are a thing of the past.
>
> But there is some fine print.
>
> First, Carvana sells used cars only. The company is picky about what cars
> get listed on its site. Usually, the cars are no more than 3 or 4 years
> old.
> Often, they are cars given back to banks when the lease runs out.
>
> Second, the buyer doesn’t get to drive the car until the deal is
> consummated. When asked if that’s a problem, O’Hara said that’s what the
> seven-day return policy is for. “You have the time to take it on your
> commute or install the child car seats to make sure it fits your life,” she
> said.
>
> When not dispensing cars, the tower can become a light display. In
> Nashville, Carvana lit up the vending machine during Halloween to resemble
> a
> giant bag of candy. In Tempe, Arizona, the company honored the Major League
> Soccer team Phoenix Rising Football Club with an animated display matching
> the team’s colors — brick red, said David Briggs, vending machine service
> manager.
>
> One day, Carvana may light up the Ontario machine in Dodger blue or Laker
> purple. But Briggs was keeping those design plans under his hat. Perhaps
> the
> car vending machine can honor the Ontario Reign, the minor league hockey
> team playing in the nearby Toyota Arena, someone suggested.
>
> Even without the concert lighting, the tower — a curiosity to freeway
> gawkers for months — resembled for the first time a car storage or delivery
> system, albeit eight floors in height. Some say it looks like a life-sized
> Hot Wheels set.
>
> “We’ve had people coming in and looking,” Briggs said. “We even had people
> circling our parking lot wondering what that thing is.”
> [© dailybulletin.com]
>
>
> +
>
> https://www.djournal.com/news/nation-world/for-the-second-time-ever-zero-labs-has-transformed-one/article_94302db2-afda-53fd-b67b-3f292bcc4f30.html
> For the Second Time Ever, Zero Labs Has Transformed One of the World's Most
> Legendary Off-Road Vehicles Into a Fully Premium, Classic Electric Vehicle
> Sep 4, 2019 Zero Labs Automotive, the first to transform a
> first-generation
> (1966-77) Ford Bronco into a premium classic electric vehicle ...
>
> https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/djournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/7b/17b65106-8ba2-5b32-bfbf-5584859c98cb/5d6ff8691f4d7.image.jpg
> ...
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=%22Zero+Labs%22=0
> search evdl on "Zero Labs" zerolabs.com
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
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Re: [EVDL] OT: NTSB report on Tesla Autopilot
The report just summarized the facts. It is out for review until November for comments. No conclusions were drawn. All the speculation in this article derived from the author and that was his version of the cause and shortcomings of Auto-Pilot not of NTSB. On Monday, September 9, 2019, 7:20:27 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz wrote: Yes, I agree it was well-written. It did have all those things that you mentioned, but I don’t think that it was *his* version, but the version released by the NTSB. I haven’t read the NTSB report, so maybe he didn’t accurately summarize their conclusions. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Sep 9, 2019, at 5:12 AM, paul dove wrote: > > This guy sounds like a professional article writer. > > Last I looked the driver is still responsible for what his car does even if I > believed his version of what happened. My Tesla’s have always stopped and > warned me in this sort of situation and yes there have been obstructions that > popped up because someone changed lanes. The car always reacted before I > could. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: >> >> OT, because while a Tesla was involved, it’s not really about EVs. I’m >> posting because of the tremendous interest in the coming (?) autopilot age. >> >> https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/09/06/ntsb-report-on-tesla-autopilot-accident-shows-whats-inside-and-its-not-pretty-for-fsd/amp/ >> >> >> - Mark >> >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190909/ebd7d20e/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] OT: NTSB report on Tesla Autopilot
paul dove via EV wrote: >> This guy sounds like a professional article writer. From: EVDL Administrator via EV > You say that like it's a bad thing. It's not. > > The word you're looking for is "journalist," or maybe "reporter." > > But it's true that good ones are scarce these day... Many so-called > journalists don't do the necessary background research to understand > the subject. They don't check whether what they've been told is > factual. They don't confirm that they've even heard the person they > talked to correctly. But they write the story anyway. > > Basically that class of journalist is a secretary, not a reporter. > Nothing wrong with being a secretary, it's just that we, as readers, > expect (and pay for) a different level of effort from a journalist. Most people don't want to pay for their news. They think they can get high quality news, right from the horse's mouth, for nothing. But if it's free, it's likely it came from the other end of the horse. -- Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James -- Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM's 1st e-truck only sold for 1yr> like an aircraft taking off r:39mi@60mph
What Ford conveniently wants people to forget is that they also had an Electric Truck in the late 1990's based on the Ranger. There are still a few examples of that truck on the roads today, using an early version of the J1772 charging standard. Ben Nelson of 300mpg.org has one and has done some YouTube videos on it. Matthew Pitts On September 9, 2019 8:34:41 AM EDT, paul dove via EV wrote: >Yes, it’s was great but only because the government forced them and >they quit as soon as the law changed > >Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:33 PM, brucedp5 via EV >wrote: >> >> >> >> >http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/09/gm-had-the-first-electric-pickup-with-the-1997-1998-chevrolet-s10-ev/ >> GM Had The First Electric Pickup With The 1997-1998 Chevrolet S10 EV >> Sep 4, 2019 Sam McEachern >> >> [images >> >http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Chevrolet-S10-EV-002-720x340.jpg >> >> >http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Chevrolet-S10-EV-001.jpg >> >> >http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Chevrolet-S10-EV-003.jpg >> ] >> >> Ford Motor Company recently announced that it would release its fully >> electric F-150 before 2022 – beating General Motors to market and >likely >> arriving just in time to take on newcomers to the pickup space like >Tesla >> and Rivian. >> >> GM was actually the first major automotive manufacturer to put an >fully >> electric pickup truck into production, however. The Chevrolet S10 EV >was >> launched in 1997, mainly for fleets, with GM producing about 1,100 >examples >> of the truck before pulling the plug on the project in 1998. >> >> The S10 EV was based on a two-door, short bed Chevrolet S10 work >truck and >> was powered by a version of the GM EV1’s powertrain, which consisted >of a >> 114 horsepower (or 85 kW) AC induction motor and a 16.2 kWh lead-acid >> battery pack. The battery, mounted in between the frame rails under >the >> S10’s bed, weighed an astonishing 1,400 lbs and brought the total >weight of >> the little truck to 4,199 lbs. >> >> According to PickupTrucks.com, the Idaho National Laboratory’s >Advanced >> Vehicle Testing Activity (AVTA) put a Chevrolet S10 EV to the test in >1997 >> and came up with a total range of 38.8 miles at a constant 60 mph and >60.4 >> miles at a constant 45 mph, figures that were calculated using the >EPA test >> cycle. A company in California also tested the trucks and recorded 35 >to 43 >> miles of real-world range on an urban loop with some stop-and-go >traffic. >> >> For the 1998 model year, GM introduced a larger 39 kWh >nickel-metal-hydride >> battery pack, which doubled the vehicle’s range. This was a costly >option, >> however, and with the S10 EV’s already steep starting price of >$33,305, it >> wasn’t enough to make the emissions-free pickup any more attractive >to >> potential fleet buyers and the truck was discontinued. >> >> Tom Convey, a former GM engineer, used to own one of the trucks >(along with >> a handful of other GM engineering employees) and spoke glowingly of >it for >> PickupTrucks.com’s 2012 article on it. Convey bought his truck from a >> utility company that put it up for sale after they were done with it >and >> later sold the vehicle to a buyer in Minneapolis. >> >> “The smooth, quick acceleration was like taking off in a light >aircraft,” >> Convey said. “The sound of the gear whine reminded me of a turbine >engine. >> If GM made a vehicle like that again, I’d buy it in a minute! I miss >that >> truck!” >> >> So while Ford, Rivian and perhaps Tesla may beat GM to market with a >> modern-day electric pickup, the Chevrolet S10 EV was first to the >party. >> Ford also followed GM’s lead in the late 1990s, introducing a Ford >Ranger EV >> on a lease-only basis between 1998 and 2002, before recalling all of >them >> EV1-style. >> [© gmauthority.com] >> >> >> https://www.google.com/search?q=who+killed+the+electric+truck >> search on who killed the electric truck >> >> >> + (detroitnews scare tactics> (smells like $koch$-spirit) >> >https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2019/09/05/shift-electric-vehicles-radically-change-auto-factories/2208961001/ >> Shift to electric vehicles will radically change auto factories >> Sept. 5, 2019 ... EVs will have many fewer parts ... with fewer jobs >... >> batteries and electric motors ... could be sourced offshore ... >anxiety at >> the United Auto Workers union ... issued ... 40-page report ... >> "implications" of electric vehicles ... threats the "coming shift to >EVs" >> could bring to U.S. jobs ... shift ... will displace workers ... >contracts >> and employment to non-auto companies to build some components ... >> >https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/09/05/PDTN/fe8d4792-36e0-4734-9322-e23257a7b892-tdndc5-74xxmqm0mecs7ebzhsr_original.jpg >> ... >>
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM's 1st e-truck only sold for 1yr> like an aircraft taking off r:39mi@60mph
On 9 Sep 2019 at 7:34, paul dove via EV wrote: > Yes, itTMs was great but only because the government forced them and they > quit as soon as the law changed Please show me evidence that "The Government" (always the mean old bad guys, eh?) forced GM to build the E10 pickup. By the way, it was essentially an EV1 drivetrain, driving the front wheels, shoehorned into an E10 chassis. Interesting layout. One thing more: the law didn't just change. The automakers, GM included, lobbied to kill California's Braude Initiative. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] OT: NTSB report on Tesla Autopilot
On 9 Sep 2019 at 7:12, paul dove via EV wrote: > This guy sounds like a professional article writer. You say that like it's a bad thing. It's not. The word you're looking for is "journalist," or maybe "reporter." But it's true that good ones are scarce these days. We see that a lot in Bruce's news posts, but that's not the only subject where they drop the ball regularly. Many so-called journalists don't do the necessary background research to understand the subject. They don't check whether what they've been told is factual. They don't confirm that they've even heard the person they talked to correctly. But they write the story anyway. Basically that class of journalist is a secretary, not a reporter. Nothing wrong with being a secretary, it's just that we, as readers, expect (and pay for) a different level of effort from a journalist. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM's 1st e-truck only sold for 1yr> like an aircraft taking off r:39mi@60mph
Yes, it’s was great but only because the government forced them and they quit as soon as the law changed Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:33 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/09/gm-had-the-first-electric-pickup-with-the-1997-1998-chevrolet-s10-ev/ > GM Had The First Electric Pickup With The 1997-1998 Chevrolet S10 EV > Sep 4, 2019 Sam McEachern > > [images > http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Chevrolet-S10-EV-002-720x340.jpg > > http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Chevrolet-S10-EV-001.jpg > > http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Chevrolet-S10-EV-003.jpg > ] > > Ford Motor Company recently announced that it would release its fully > electric F-150 before 2022 – beating General Motors to market and likely > arriving just in time to take on newcomers to the pickup space like Tesla > and Rivian. > > GM was actually the first major automotive manufacturer to put an fully > electric pickup truck into production, however. The Chevrolet S10 EV was > launched in 1997, mainly for fleets, with GM producing about 1,100 examples > of the truck before pulling the plug on the project in 1998. > > The S10 EV was based on a two-door, short bed Chevrolet S10 work truck and > was powered by a version of the GM EV1’s powertrain, which consisted of a > 114 horsepower (or 85 kW) AC induction motor and a 16.2 kWh lead-acid > battery pack. The battery, mounted in between the frame rails under the > S10’s bed, weighed an astonishing 1,400 lbs and brought the total weight of > the little truck to 4,199 lbs. > > According to PickupTrucks.com, the Idaho National Laboratory’s Advanced > Vehicle Testing Activity (AVTA) put a Chevrolet S10 EV to the test in 1997 > and came up with a total range of 38.8 miles at a constant 60 mph and 60.4 > miles at a constant 45 mph, figures that were calculated using the EPA test > cycle. A company in California also tested the trucks and recorded 35 to 43 > miles of real-world range on an urban loop with some stop-and-go traffic. > > For the 1998 model year, GM introduced a larger 39 kWh nickel-metal-hydride > battery pack, which doubled the vehicle’s range. This was a costly option, > however, and with the S10 EV’s already steep starting price of $33,305, it > wasn’t enough to make the emissions-free pickup any more attractive to > potential fleet buyers and the truck was discontinued. > > Tom Convey, a former GM engineer, used to own one of the trucks (along with > a handful of other GM engineering employees) and spoke glowingly of it for > PickupTrucks.com’s 2012 article on it. Convey bought his truck from a > utility company that put it up for sale after they were done with it and > later sold the vehicle to a buyer in Minneapolis. > > “The smooth, quick acceleration was like taking off in a light aircraft,” > Convey said. “The sound of the gear whine reminded me of a turbine engine. > If GM made a vehicle like that again, I’d buy it in a minute! I miss that > truck!” > > So while Ford, Rivian and perhaps Tesla may beat GM to market with a > modern-day electric pickup, the Chevrolet S10 EV was first to the party. > Ford also followed GM’s lead in the late 1990s, introducing a Ford Ranger EV > on a lease-only basis between 1998 and 2002, before recalling all of them > EV1-style. > [© gmauthority.com] > > > https://www.google.com/search?q=who+killed+the+electric+truck > search on who killed the electric truck > > > + (detroitnews scare tactics> (smells like $koch$-spirit) > https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2019/09/05/shift-electric-vehicles-radically-change-auto-factories/2208961001/ > Shift to electric vehicles will radically change auto factories > Sept. 5, 2019 ... EVs will have many fewer parts ... with fewer jobs ... > batteries and electric motors ... could be sourced offshore ... anxiety at > the United Auto Workers union ... issued ... 40-page report ... > "implications" of electric vehicles ... threats the "coming shift to EVs" > could bring to U.S. jobs ... shift ... will displace workers ... contracts > and employment to non-auto companies to build some components ... > https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/09/05/PDTN/fe8d4792-36e0-4734-9322-e23257a7b892-tdndc5-74xxmqm0mecs7ebzhsr_original.jpg > ... > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/amnesty-org-attacks-EVs-as-evil-smells-like-koch-spirit-tp4693166.html > [dated] amnesty.org attacks EVs as evil> (smells like $koch$-spirit) > Mar 21 2019 > > > + ( terribleherbst.com convenience-stores have L3&2 PV-EVSE) > https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/terrible-herbst-adds-solar-powered-ev-charging > Terrible Herbst Adds Solar-Powered EV Charging > LAS VEGAS —Terrible Herbst Oil Co. is adding electric vehicle (EV) > charging—but with a solar-powered twist. The Las Vegas-based > convenience-store chain ... partnering with ISM Connect ... Sun Media > Network ... off-the-grid units
Re: [EVDL] OT: NTSB report on Tesla Autopilot
Yes, I agree it was well-written. It did have all those things that you mentioned, but I don’t think that it was *his* version, but the version released by the NTSB. I haven’t read the NTSB report, so maybe he didn’t accurately summarize their conclusions. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Sep 9, 2019, at 5:12 AM, paul dove wrote: > > This guy sounds like a professional article writer. > > Last I looked the driver is still responsible for what his car does even if I > believed his version of what happened. My Tesla’s have always stopped and > warned me in this sort of situation and yes there have been obstructions that > popped up because someone changed lanes. The car always reacted before I > could. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: >> >> OT, because while a Tesla was involved, it’s not really about EVs. I’m >> posting because of the tremendous interest in the coming (?) autopilot age. >> >> https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/09/06/ntsb-report-on-tesla-autopilot-accident-shows-whats-inside-and-its-not-pretty-for-fsd/amp/ >> >> >> - Mark >> >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] OT: NTSB report on Tesla Autopilot
This guy sounds like a professional article writer. Last I looked the driver is still responsible for what his car does even if I believed his version of what happened. My Tesla’s have always stopped and warned me in this sort of situation and yes there have been obstructions that popped up because someone changed lanes. The car always reacted before I could. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > > OT, because while a Tesla was involved, it’s not really about EVs. I’m > posting because of the tremendous interest in the coming (?) autopilot age. > > https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/09/06/ntsb-report-on-tesla-autopilot-accident-shows-whats-inside-and-its-not-pretty-for-fsd/amp/ > > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Rivian e-truck Testing.ar @tierra-del-fuego (v)
https://lonerider-motorcycle.com/blogs/loneriderblog/ewan-mcgregor-and-charley-boormans-long-way-up-will-be-on-electric-motorcycles?fbclid=IwAR2G19NObIvyzziHAnGmQOn25Fi8bowAjHECTVHIOuZxkCrFMmXwclXHx-Y On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 at 21:07, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/someone-caught-the-rivian-r1t-testing-in-argentinahere-s-your-first-look-ar186435.html > Someone Caught The Rivian R1T Testing In Argentina - > Here's Your First Look! > September 2, 2019 Sidd Dhimaan > > [images > https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201909/someone-caught-the-r-3_800x0w.jpg > > https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201909/someone-caught-the-r_800x0w.jpg > > https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201909/someone-caught-the-r-2-2_800x0w.jpg > > https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201909/someone-caught-the-r-3_800x0w.jpg > > https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201811/the-2020-rivian-r1t--33_800x0w.jpg > > > share > https://twitter.com/Autoblogcomar/status/1167755985877950464 > Autoblog Argentina ?? @Autoblogcomar > Dos pick-ups Rivian RT1 (100% eléctricas) llegaron a Ushuaia para poner en > marcha una travesía por toda América. > Nota, fotos y videos acá (Two Rivian RT1 pick-ups (100% electric) arrived > in Ushuaia to launch a crossing throughout America. Note, photos and videos > here): > https://autoblog.com.ar/2019/08/31/rivian-rt1-y-harley-davidson-livewire-en-ushuaia-dos-pick-ups-y-cuatro-motos-haran-una-travesia-electrica-por-toda-america/ > …@Rivian > Embedded video > 6:08 AM - Aug 31, 2019 > ] > > We are excited to see the truck in the real world, but a number of minor > changes have dampened our spirits somehow > > We’ve seen the Rivian R1T during various events and we are mighty impressed > with what RJ Scaringe, the CEO, has managed to come up for it. Rivian has > released trailers and pictures of the pickup truck and it sure looks great. > However, it was never really spied or seen on the roads to get an idea of > what it looks like in real-world conditions; after all, things can be > deceiving when viewed under shiny lights. But the truck was recently spotted > testing in Argentina and we have to say, it does not disappoint. > > Capacity > > Is This The Same Rivian Truck We Saw Before? > > A pair of Rivian R1T pickup trucks were spotted in Tierra del Fuego, an > island chain shared by Chile and Argentina. It is known for its glaciers, > snowy mountains, and wind-sculpted trees. The fact that the trucks were seen > here shows how extensively and vigorously Rivian is testing the pickup > truck. The photos were uploaded on Rivianforums.com and enthusiasts were > quick to note down the differences this potential pre-production version has > in comparison to the concept version we’ve seen previously. First, let’s > talk about the exterior. This is the first time the R1T wears the badges and > logos on the body. It’s also the first time the truck is seen in white > shade. Tow hooks can be seen on the front bumper, where the concept version > had glossy black panels, whilst the rear bumper is seen with changes made to > the shape and diffusers. > > The quarter windows on the rear doors did not make its way here from the > concept version, and neither did the silver metal hooks on the rear bumper. > > Another big change is the location of the charger port that has been moved > from the passenger side to the driver’s side at the front. The door handles > look slightly different whereas the wing mirrors are a tad bit larger than > what we have seen previously. This R1T, just like the concept version, rides > on Pirelli Scorpion all-terrain tires, and the front fenders come with > orange reflectors on them. The back of the truck is seen with a thicker > spoiler at the edge along with two high-mounted brake lights and two slots > to channel air down the backlight. The R1T concept showcased an exciting > feature - two fold-down steps under the rear bumper that would enable easy > access to the bed with the tailgate up. But, as it turns out, even those are > missing here. Looks like the R1T has lost out on a lot of cool features. > > I Hope It’s Not Some Cost-Cutting Exercise > > On the inside, the steering wheel has lost all its charm. The concept’s > steering wheel came with two scroll wheels and a square center design, and > it represented a very minimalist design. However, Rivian seems to have > replaced it with a full black unit that comes with a round center and > numerous spoke controls, so it looks like it’s borrowed from a regular > sedan. > > To make things worse, carbon fiber inserts between the concept wheels' > spokes have also been eliminated. > > If it’s of any consolation, the interior shows off the Black Mountain color > scheme in black and gray. This theme will be offered along with the other > two interior themes - Forrest Edge and Lunar Rock. > > What We Know About The Truck Until Now > > Speaking of the truck, Rivian is marketing it as an off-road,
[EVDL] OT: NTSB report on Tesla Autopilot
OT, because while a Tesla was involved, it’s not really about EVs. I’m posting because of the tremendous interest in the coming (?) autopilot age. https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/09/06/ntsb-report-on-tesla-autopilot-accident-shows-whats-inside-and-its-not-pretty-for-fsd/amp/ - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
