Re: [EVDL] Selling my 94 Geo Metro Conversion

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Thanks for the info.  I do have insurance on the car now, but as a "classic
car" that's meant to be driven only around 500 miles per year.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of nathan christiansn
via EV
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 8:36 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: nathan christiansn
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Selling my 94 Geo Metro Conversion

Bill,

Geico is my insurance provider. Are you having trouble insuring your EV?

-Nathan
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Re: [EVDL] Selling my 94 Geo Metro Conversion

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Nathan, fellow Utahn here.  Can you tell me which insurance company you use
for your EV?

Thanks,

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of nathan christiansn
via EV
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2023 3:32 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: nathan christiansn
Subject: [EVDL] Selling my 94 Geo Metro Conversion

Hello everyone,

Changing life circumstances have unfortunately necessitated me to sell my
beloved 1994 Geo Metro EV conversion. I will be moving to a location where
I will not have access to at-home charging in August and unfortunately the
range of this car makes it impractical to own without convenient access to
charging. I am not sure where to post my for-sale listing as the market for
these cars is somewhat limited - the form just seemed like a good place to
start. Hence, if anyone has any suggestions on how/where to sell my
conversion I would greatly appreciate it.

Specs are as follows:

- Traction Battery: 28 Nissan Leaf Gen 2 Battery Modules - pack has
degraded to about 7kwh at 80% state of charge. The modules are in a 14s2p
configuration (28s4p cell configuration; each module has 4 cells in a 2s2p
configuration) for a nominal pack voltage around 105 volts.
- HPEVS AC-35 with Curtis 1238-7501 controller. The car isn't super quick
on the accelerator but it is likely better than stock.
- BMS is a Thunderstruck/Dilithium Designs unit with one satelite unit -
the pack is split into two battery boxes - one under the hood and one in
the truck. There is a BMS in each battery box so you don't have the fire
hazard of balance wires running outside of battery boxes.
- Thunderstruck TSM2500 2.5KW charger - a unique feature about this charger
is that it allows you to set the charging current and voltage via
configuration software which is very useful if you decide to modify the
traction pack later on. Maximum output voltage is 130 volts. Charger is
wired to a standard J1772 charging port.
-Custom GUI that displays pack voltage, motor current, and estimates state
of charge. Also calculates driving efficiency and displays it in miles/kwh.
-I am estimating the range is about 40 miles with the battery at 100% state
of charge - my GUI says the range is 30-33 miles at 80% state of charge
during the summertime. I have gone on a 29 mile trip starting with a
battery at 80% and ending with it at about 5% so my display is pretty
accurate. Please note that this car does not have battery heaters so expect
the winter range to be about half of the summer range.
-Vehicle is located about 15 minutes away from Provo, Utah. It is licensed
and insured as an electric vehicle in the state of Utah so you won't have
to worry about taking it through that process.

Unfortunately, the list won't let me post pictures so the best I can do is
provide my EV album link: http://evalbum.com/5471

If interested, email me at nrc71...@gmail.com or give me a call/send me a
text at 385-224-0840. I can provide additional/more recent pictures and we
can start the conversation from there. The previous owner and I have put
$9k into it and I am asking $3000. The batteries alone are worth at least
$2k on ebay.

This is a fun car to drive and I am sad to see it go, but unfortunately
this will no longer be a practical car for me very soon.

-Nathan
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[EVDL] Badgered in My EV

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Besides an electric motor's not making enough heat to warm a car interior, I 
just discovered another disadvantage to that lack of warmth.  Every morning 
this week, I woke up to find our garage ransacked.  Everything knocked over.  
Screens mauled.  Couldn't figure out how whatever critter was doing it was 
getting in there--until I saw some chewed-up insulation on the floor and 
realized that a badger had taken up residence in the engine compartment of our 
Chevy Volt!  That little bugger had been riding all over town with me for days, 
just playing it cool in his cubbyhole near the firewall.  I had a heck of a 
time getting him to vacate, but I was finally able to poke and prod him out of 
there.  I hope he didn't do too much damage.

Bill  

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[EVDL] Thermal Grease Recommendation

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Anyone have a thermal grease that they'd recommend for spreading between a
Curtis 1231C and its heat sink?

Thanks,

Bill Dennis

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Re: [EVDL] Why people dislike Tesla

[Bill Dennis via EV]

There's an article in slate.com today about some of the reasons why people
dislike Tesla, and Musk.

https://slate.com/technology/2022/05/elon-musk-tesla-twitter-fables.html

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] New Volt Owner

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Thanks, Peter.  I actually already found that thread on GM-Volt and put
together an adapter for 240V.  It charges at 2880W, which makes the charge
time around 5 hours.  Works great.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal via
EV
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2022 8:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Peter VanDerWal
Subject: Re: [EVDL] New Volt Owner

FWIW the EVSE that comes with the 2017 and later Volts/Bolts will also work
as a level 2 EVSE, you just have to buy/build an adapter to allow it to plug
into 240V and it becomes a 3.5-3.6kw EVSE (which is the max the Volt will
charge at)

My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key

March 10, 2022 7:05 AM, "Bill Dennis via EV"  wrote:

> Unexpectedly, I am now the owner of a 2017 Chevy Volt with 22,000 miles on
> the odometer. If anyone has any advice or insights for a newbie, I'd be
> glad to hear them. The still has its 120V L1 charger. In my first highway
> test, it managed 59 miles before the gas engine kicked in, so not bad.
I'll
> be driving the car about 1900 miles home in a few days, so that should
give
> the gas engine a workout.
> 
> Bill
> 
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[EVDL] New Volt Owner

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Unexpectedly, I am now the owner of a 2017 Chevy Volt with 22,000 miles on
the odometer.  If anyone has any advice or insights for a newbie, I'd be
glad to hear them.  The still has its 120V L1 charger.  In my first highway
test, it managed 59 miles before the gas engine kicked in, so not bad.  I'll
be driving the car about 1900 miles home in a few days, so that should give
the gas engine a workout.

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] Self Driving Mode, was Tesla's Sneaky Rolling

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I was driving on the I-210 outside of Los Angeles this weekend, which is under 
construction.  They've shifted the lanes, but didn't do a good job of blacking 
out the old lane markers.  So even as a human driver, I found it quite 
difficult to figure out where the lanes actually were.  I was wondering if 
anyone has tried using autopilot  through that stretch and how it made out.

Thanks,

Bill 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via EV
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 4:11 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: paul dove
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Self Driving Mode, was Tesla's Sneaky Rolling

 I have never seen Autopilot drop out in 3 years of driving a Tesla.

On Sunday, February 6, 2022, 10:33:32 PM CST, Michael Ross via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Human vision has to assemble an image mostly from memory. The
contemporaneous data is overwritten on the remembered image to update and
define motion for the cortex. The optic nerve only sends changes in an
image. It is a differentiator not a frame writer. This is why we can see a
rope as a snake and other reflexive mistakes.

It makes sense to me that a machine vision system would apply similar
logistics and tactics. Why send millions of pixels that have not changed
significantly?

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 5:17 PM mark hanson via EV  wrote:

> Hi Peri etc,
>
>
>
> I don't recall a warning when it glitched and dropped out.  It has made a
> bing sound (from the speakers) when it gets confused with large tractor
> trailers and drops out.  It's odd that it has trouble identifying large
> tractor trailers (image jumps around a lot frequently) but small cars
> appear
> stable in the screen.  I just bop the right stick twice again and it
> resumes, no biggie on a straight highway.  It doesn't happen that often,
> only a couple times going to Florida and once up to Pennsylvania.  We're
> heading down to the Keys Febuary 11th , so I'll make a note of the
> glitches/frequency.
>
>
>
> One thing that's more annoying though, sometimes it gets confused with a
> blowing leaf or clump of snow etc and flashes red with a loud noise out of
> the loud speakers (my wife hates that "feature"), makes you jump when
> there's nothing there.  Them says "taking control of steering wheel" and
> feel a little force this way or that which I just ignore/overpower.
>
>
>
> I wish I could turn off all this "fluffy" stuff.  Guess I'm used to simple
> conversions and my Chevy Bolt & Leaf.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2022 21:09:18 +
>
> From: "Peri Hartman" 
>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Self Driving Mode, was Tesla's Sneaky Rolling
>
>  Stops
>
> Message-ID: 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Does autopilot give any sort of warning when it drops out ? It seems that
> it
> should do something that grabs you attention instantly, e.g.
>
> vibrate the steering wheel or even a mild shock.
>
>
>
> Peri
>
>
>
>
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Mark E. Hanson
>
> 184 Vista Lane
>
> Fincastle, VA 24090
>
> 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell
>
> REEVA: community service RE & EV project club
>
> Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery)
>
> UL Certified PV Installer
>
> My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh
>
> REEVA Demo:   http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0
>
>
> <
> https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddablePage/show/a88920376f864ecabaed843dd89
> 75b8d/signature
> >
> Fincastle Solar Weather Station
>
>
>
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>


-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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Addres

Re: [EVDL] Momentary Pulse Switch

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Thanks.  The application is not critical, just turning on a screen.  So I'd
like to stick with a simple, non-powered switch.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 3:16 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Peri Hartman
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Momentary Pulse Switch

That sounds like a fail prone solution. If you get noise or somehow lose 
a pulse, you'll be out of synch. Wouldn't it be better to simply poll 
the sensor once in a while ? Or have both: a pulse when the state 
changes and a method to poll to confirm the state ?

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message ------
From: "Bill Dennis via EV" 
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" 
Cc: "Bill Dennis" 
Sent: 05-Oct-21 13:16:07
Subject: [EVDL] Momentary Pulse Switch

>Can someone recommend a small, momentary pulse switch for 5 volts?  When
the car's fuel door is opened, I want a the switch to close to send a quick
pulse, then turn off.  Same when the fuel door is closed.  The switch
doesn't have to handle anything more than milliamps.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bill Dennis
>
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[EVDL] Momentary Pulse Switch

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Can someone recommend a small, momentary pulse switch for 5 volts?  When the 
car's fuel door is opened, I want a the switch to close to send a quick pulse, 
then turn off.  Same when the fuel door is closed.  The switch doesn't have to 
handle anything more than milliamps.

Thanks,

Bill Dennis

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Re: [EVDL] opinion article on hydrogen

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Here's a link to a timely video on the hydrogen flying topic:  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFlV1jY6K7Q

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Gales via EV
Sent: Sunday, May 9, 2021 3:09 PM
To: p...@ingineerix.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Larry Gales
Subject: Re: [EVDL] opinion article on hydrogen

There are 3 major types of flying to consider: (1) VTOL (mainly
helicopters), (2) regional flights up to 600 miles (more than 1/2 of all
commercial flights are within 600 miles), and (3) long distance flights,
more than 600 miles.

For the first two types, battery powered electric aircraft (like the 600+
mile range Eviation Alice), and VTOL are simply far superior to what we
have now, in terms of cleanliness, quietness, safety, smoothness, and
dramatically lower fuel and maintenance costs.  So, instead of flying less,
we will likely be flying more, and paying much less.

Some time ago I ran the figures for the cost of CH4 (methane) fuel if we
created CH4 by (a) electrolyzing water to get H2, (b) using Direct Air
Capture to get CO2, and (c) using the Sabatier process to produce CH4.
When burned in a jet engine it is carbon neutral because the CO2 we emit is
exactly the amount of CO2 that we captured.

I don't remember the exact cost of the fuel, but it was less than twice
what it is now.  But, given that fuel cost is only 20% of the cost for
current flights, that translates to prices about 20% more than at present.

So, maybe the very low cost of short range battery powered aircraft which
makeup more than 1/2 of all flights could subsidize the longer flights?




On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 1:36 PM (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:

> If future true carbon neutral is "handwaving", then I'd love to hear your
> proposal for long-distance air travel?  What have you got?
>
> Right now until we have something like fusion, There isn't any current
tech
> that can handle it.  People aren't just going to stop flying.
>
> The only path I can see right now is Biofuels, Yes it's dirty now, just
> like coal on the grid powering EVs, but it most definitely can be fixed to
> be at least carbon neutral.  The solution to get free-enterprise to work
on
> this is a real carbon tax.
>
> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 1:46 PM EVDL Administrator  wrote:
>
> > On 8 May 2021 at 10:10, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> >
> > > Biofuels can at least be carbon neutral, as you can close the
> > > carbon cycle.  It will take a long way to get there of course, as the
> > > complete biofuel production cycle is also still a carbon intensive
> > > operation, but this can be fixed over time.
> >
> > With all due respect, "this can be fixed over time" is a bit too much
> hand-
> > waving for my taste.
> >
> > The problem with biofuels is that growing and harvesting crops,
> processing
> > them, and transporting the fuel to the use point requires substantial
> > energy
> > input, and most of it comes from carbon based fuels.  Even fertilizer
and
> > pesticides are made from petroleum.  I just don't see that equation
> > changing
> > fast enough to get us to carbon-neutral in time.
> >
> > The only biofuel application I can think of that *might* get closer
> sooner
> > -
> > and I'm not 100% sure about even this - is electricity generation.  For
> > example, Uruguay's power system runs largely on pulverized Eucalyptus
> > wood.
> > The problem with this is that petroleum giants have governments bought
> and
> > paid for, and they can't make money from distributing wood chips as
> easily
> > as they can from corn processed into ethanol.
> >
> > There's also the fact that food turned into fuel while people are
> starving
> > round the world has some ... ethical considerations.
> >
> > > To get to electrification quicker, I still think some hybridization is
> > > good.
> >
> > Your point about improving utilization of limited battery-production
> > capacity is a good one.  We need to keep plugging ahead (sorry) with
> > battery
> > recycling, and with developing batteries that use less exotic materials.
> > NiMH, anyone?  Hello?
> >
> > But at the consumer level, I think that the use case for hybrids - I
mean
> > real ones, not "you naver have to plug it in" pseudo-hybrids - is fading
> > as
> > true BEV battery capacity grows and rapid charging facilities multiply.
> >
> > It's also easier and more efficient to add PV capacity to EV charging
> than
> > it is to add "renewability" to ICEV refueling.
> >
> > Finally, a BEV is mechanically much simpler and at least theoretically
> > more
> > reliable than an ICEV, let alone a hybrid with the complexity of both.
I
> > haven't run the numbers, but intuitively, manufacturing a BEV has to be
> > less
> > carbon intensive than manufacturing a hybrid, and it should have a
longer
> > service life.
> >
> > Like LPs and phono cartridges in 1980, today's ICEVs are highly complex,
> > almost impossibly refined machines only made affordable by serial
> > production
> > and

Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I'll try a few more charging cycles.  Right now, whenever I take it out, it's 
doing its mandatory running of the ICE engine, so the charge hasn't gone down 
yet.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Steves via EV
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 1:30 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Steves
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

One possibility is that the mileage varies with temperature . I typically show 
60 miles in summer and 40 in winter ( northern VA).

Also I think it projects mileage based on recent usage. So the trips to and 
from mailbox may be poor mileage trips.

Does it show 40 miles after several more chargings?

-Steve

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Bill Dennis via EV  wrote:
> 
> She leaves the car plugged in all the time, even after it's fully charged.
> She uses 110V charging.
> 
> Bill
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 12:32 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: Peri Hartman
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade
> 
> What does the Volt charger do at full charge and the cable stays plugged 
> in ? Does it periodically recharge as parasitic uses discharge the 
> battery ? What is her charging pattern and what was it before the 
> pandemic ? It could be that, after one year, constant recharging to 100% 
> damaged the cells. What Just pure speculation.
> 
> Peri
> 
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Glenn Brooks via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Glenn Brooks" 
> Sent: 03-Feb-21 11:26:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade
> 
>> One of the Battery cells going bad, maybe.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Bill Dennis via EV 
> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pre-pandemic, when my mother-in-law charged her 2017 Chevy Volt, it
> would
>>> have about 60 miles electric range.  Throughout the pandemic, she's done
>>> nothing with the car except drive it to the top of the driveway and back
> to
>>> check the mail.  When we were finally able to get to Georgia to visit
> her
>>> this week after fifteen months, I notice that a full charge shows only
> 40
>>> miles range now.  Anyone ever notice anything similar, or have any guess
>>> why?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
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Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

[Bill Dennis via EV]

She leaves the car plugged in all the time, even after it's fully charged.
She uses 110V charging.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 12:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Peri Hartman
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

What does the Volt charger do at full charge and the cable stays plugged 
in ? Does it periodically recharge as parasitic uses discharge the 
battery ? What is her charging pattern and what was it before the 
pandemic ? It could be that, after one year, constant recharging to 100% 
damaged the cells. What Just pure speculation.

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Glenn Brooks via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Glenn Brooks" 
Sent: 03-Feb-21 11:26:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

>One of the Battery cells going bad, maybe.
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>>  On Feb 3, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Bill Dennis via EV 
wrote:
>>
>>  Pre-pandemic, when my mother-in-law charged her 2017 Chevy Volt, it
would
>>  have about 60 miles electric range.  Throughout the pandemic, she's done
>>  nothing with the car except drive it to the top of the driveway and back
to
>>  check the mail.  When we were finally able to get to Georgia to visit
her
>>  this week after fifteen months, I notice that a full charge shows only
40
>>  miles range now.  Anyone ever notice anything similar, or have any guess
>>  why?
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>
>>  Bill
>>
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[EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Pre-pandemic, when my mother-in-law charged her 2017 Chevy Volt, it would
have about 60 miles electric range.  Throughout the pandemic, she's done
nothing with the car except drive it to the top of the driveway and back to
check the mail.  When we were finally able to get to Georgia to visit her
this week after fifteen months, I notice that a full charge shows only 40
miles range now.  Anyone ever notice anything similar, or have any guess
why?

Thanks,

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era unveiled

[Bill Dennis via EV]

FullyCharged did a video riding in the prototype of the Lightyear One:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Friday, July 5, 2019 8:36 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Peri Hartman
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Stella Era unveiled

Truly impressive. It appears they focused mostly on aerodynamics, as the 
solar charge rate is 12km/h max. They claim a range of at least 400km in 
winter at highway speeds. Of course, you get the additional advantage 
that it is potentially charging while sitting in a parking lot, meaning 
that on normal days you probably don't have to plug in at all.

More info here:
https://lightyear.one/

And here
https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/25/lightyear-one-debuts-as-the-first-long-ran
ge-solar-powered-electric-car/

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
Sent: 04-Jul-19 8:30:30 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Stella Era unveiled

>The 2019 Stella solar car is unveiled. Lawrence Rhodes
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_c4fuLWq_A
>
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQAq3_M0LY0
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: PNNL’s EV Battery: 7x Longer Lifespan, 2+* Longer Range

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Note that the headline mixes messages a bit.  It's 7 times longer than current 
Lithium-Metal cells, not 7 times longer than the Li-ion cells currently in EVs. 
 So it's only 700 cycles, which is still shy of how many cycles Li-ion cells 
already achieve.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 2:24 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: brucedp5
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: PNNL’s EV Battery: 7x Longer Lifespan, 2+* Longer Range



https://www.greenoptimistic.com/pnnl-ev-battery-lifespan-range-20180402/
PNNL’s New EV Battery: 7x Longer Lifespan, 2 to 3 Times Longer Range April 2, 
2018  Janina Lazo-Cruz

The transport sector remains a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions 
and electric vehicles can eliminate this generation of pollutants. Still, there 
are factors that remain challenges to electric mobility.

The miles an electric vehicle can drive before it runs out of charge is almost 
half of the miles a petroleum/diesel-fueled vehicle can drive before it runs 
out of gas. Moreover, the availability of charging stations and the service 
life of batteries are also reasons for car owners to choose conventional 
vehicles.

So, efforts to improve electric mobility experience are seen globally and 
currently, researchers from the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) 
have developed a new formula for battery’s electrolyte solution to enhance its 
performance unprecedentedly in terms of its service life and storage capacity 
or an electric vehicle’s range.

In a separate project, engineers from the University of Colorado, Boulder are 
currently developing a technology for electric vehicles that would allow them 
to recharge wirelessly while running on the road.

Lithium-Metal vs Lithium-Ion Battery

Briefly, a battery is composed of two electrodes (anode and cathode) and an 
electrolyte solution. The solution is a special liquid that contains charges or 
electrolytes, which transports from one electrode to the other.

For lithium-ion batteries, the electrodes are made up of graphite, while 
lithium-metal batteries use lithium metal as their electrodes. Comparing the 
two electrode materials, lithium metal is a much better option as it can store 
two to three times more energy than graphite.

This means that with lithium-metal batteries, electric vehicles can drive two 
to three times farther in a single charge compared with the currently commonly 
used lithium-ion batteries powering our personal electronic devices. As such, 
they are considered as the “holy grail” of energy-storing devices.
New Electrolyte Solution Brings 7 Times Longer Battery Lifespan and 2-3 Times 
Longer EV Range

Acknowledging this fact, PNNL focused on the current challenges and problems of 
lithium-metal batteries. The main problem lies with its electrolyte solution 
that easily corrodes its electrodes, causing shorter battery life or lower 
number of recharging cycles.

Their study published in the journal Advanced Materials found out that 
increasing the concentration of lithium-based salt in the electrolyte solution 
forms a barrier around the electrodes, protecting them from corrosion and 
ultimately, lengthening the battery life.

This technique, however, has two disadvantages: first, the lithium-based salt 
is expensive and second, increasing the salt’s concentration results in 
increasing the viscosity and lowering the conductivity of the electrolyte 
solution.

So, the researchers had to optimize the salt concentration. PNNL senior battery 
researcher Ji Guang “Jason” Zhang said, “We were trying to preserve the 
advantage of the high concentration of salt, but offset the disadvantages. By 
combining a fluorine-based solvent to dilute the high concentration 
electrolyte, our team was able to significantly lower the total lithium salt 
concentration yet keep its benefits.”

By adding the fluorine-based solvent into the electrolyte solution, the 
lithium-based salts become clusters. These salt clusters, in effect, function 
as balls of localized high-concentration lithium salt within the solution that 
can still act as protection to electrodes from corrosion, but its “cluster” 
form avoids its formation of dendrites.

Crystals, such as the lithium-based salt, tend to form dendrites or the 
branch-like structure during crystallization. They are like snowflake formation 
and frost patterns on a glass. Lithium-based salt dendrites are undesirable for 
the battery as they cause short circuits and thus, end the battery’s life.

The performance of this new formulation of electrolyte solution was tested on 
an experimental battery cell as small as a watch battery. While a conventional 
electrolyte solution can maintain its charging capability after just 100 
charge/discharge cycles, the newly developed electrolyte solution can withstand 
up to 700 cycles. That is, the lifespan of a battery is 7 times more than the 
existing batteries.

Wireless 

[EVDL] Car of the Dystopian Future?

[Bill Dennis via EV]

With the passing of Ursula Le Guin this week, I decided to watch the old PBS
"Lathe of Heaven" movie, which I haven't seen in decades.  Filmed in 1979,
the picture tells us that it's set "In the Near Future".  Lo and behold,
about 3/4 the way through the film, the protagonist jumps into a CitiCar and
zooms off.  Any old-timers on the list know anything about how the car ended
up in the film?  Here's a link to a clip from the film, complete with the
no-budget CGI hamburger-looking alien spaceships flying around:

http://player.mashpedia.com/player.php?q=coE87VzEWSE

Bill Dennis

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Re: [EVDL] Heater

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I used a 1500W heater core in my Geo Metro conversion, and I'd say that it
kept the car kinda "warmish" on really cold days.   But I think if I'd taken
the time to put extra insulation in the car, that would have helped.

Bill 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:20 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: ROBERT
Subject: [EVDL] Heater

Sometimes during a conversation, the heater core is replaced with an
electric resistance heater.  For a small size car like a VW Bug, what size
is used?  What is the wattage?

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Re: [EVDL] Big, Honking Electric Snowblower: Feasible?

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Jay wrote:
> Buy the cheapest motor/controller you can find.

In this link that Bruce sent:

http://www.evalbum.com/3628

the guy is using a Manta brushed DC motor, with *no controller*, which seems
about the cheapest controller you can get.  Is it considered okay to hit a
brushed DC motor with full 36V like that at startup?

Thanks all,

Bill


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[EVDL] Big, Honking Electric Snowblower: Feasible?

[Bill Dennis via EV]

We get lots of snow where I live.  I'm often clearing a foot or more of snow 
using a 10.5 hp, 30-inch wide, 24-inch tall unit.  I've recently been offered a 
similar unit with a blown engine, and I'm toying with the idea of trying to 
make it electric.  It seems that battery electric snowblowers on the market 
only go up to 21-inch width and low horsepower, so really not big enough for my 
needs.

So I guess I'm asking a few things:
1)  Is this even a feasible project
2)  If so, anyone have suggestions on how to proceed (for example, 
shunt motor vs. series motor, etc.)
3)  Any pitfalls I need to look out for (for example, the gasoline 
blower has a governor on the engine--do I need something similar)
4)  Anything else I'm not thinking of

Thanks,

Bill 

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Re: [EVDL] Using the LEAF drivetrain in a conversion

[Bill Dennis via EV]

In case you haven't seen them yet, here are a couple links, one to a guy who's 
putting a Leaf drivetrain into an Insight, and another who's putting the Leaf 
drivetrain into a Saab Sonett III.  The Saab Sonett thread has quite a bit of 
detail about the Leaf drivetrain.  

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/project-nissan-leaf-drivetrain-into-02-honda-insight-30966.html

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/re-using-complete-leaf-drive-system-151458.html

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of via EV
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 10:25 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Using the LEAF drivetrain in a conversion

I would really like to put a Leaf drivetrain in a 2000 Honda Insight.  I have 
two Insights and just bought a 2014 Chevy Volt, so I have time to work on my 
'project cars'.  At 1850 lbs, I would think the Insight with a Leaf system 
would be very quick and have considerable range.  Not sure how much work would 
be required on an adapter plate for a Leaf motor to Insight transmission would 
be?  I wonder if anybody has tried this conversion. 

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 8:50 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
 wrote:
 

 Bill,

I took everything under the hood out of a 2011 Leaf and already sold the motor 
(and gave the halfshafts and mounts with it) but I still have the inverter. I 
also own (and commute in) a 2011 Leaf.
It is probably possible to capture and reverse-engineer the CAN bus and other 
signals to the inverter. I can look at the Service Docs (esp wiring diagram) to 
figure out what signals go where.
I see that the inverters sell on Ebay for $700. 

NOTE that the 2013+ Leaf inverter is different from the 2011/2012 model, since 
the 2011/2012 have everything in separate boxes: power control (switching the 
HV) is in a separate box near the firewall, charger is in a separate box behind 
the rear seat and the inverter is in a separate box above the motor.
For the 2013+ everything is integrated in one layered box above the motor.
Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP  +31 87 
784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Collins via EV
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2017 11:36 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Using the LEAF drivetrain in a conversion

Has anyone been able to talk to the LEAF inverter directly? I know it's 
possible to run the LEAF drivetrain outside the car if you take enough of the 
car with it, but It would be a lot easier if you could just send CAN commands 
directly to the inverter.

Bill
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Re: [EVDL] battery heating pads

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I use soil heating cable.  It has a built-in 75 degree F thermostat.  I usually 
just heat the batteries from AC when charging, but I also keep a small 200 watt 
inverter in the car in case I need it to power the cables from 12V DC.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: "John Lussmyer via EV" 
Sent: ‎1/‎3/‎2017 10:41 AM
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Subject: [EVDL]  battery heating pads

On Mon Jan 02 22:59:41 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>whats a good for heating batteries ?
>water bed heater pad ?
>What else could be used?

Many things.  One thing I used some Lead Acid batteries was Gutter Ice melting 
cable.
This is a special cable that has a PTC plastic between the wires, so you apply 
power, and it will self-limit to a reasonable temperature.
I found that 120VAC cable would self limit to about 70 deg F when driven with 
156V DC.


--

Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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[EVDL] Better Place Pack Air Baffles

[Bill Dennis via EV]

On the Leaf-type battery packs that came from Better Place vehicles, there
are two, thin, corrugated metal sheets nestled between the three rows of
cells, to allow airflow.  If anyone has disassembled a Better Place pack and
has no need for those metal air channel pieces and would like to sell them,
please contact me off list.

Thanks,

Bill Dennis  

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Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I think that the J1772 spec has a 1kHz signal on one of its lines, the duty
cycle of which specifies the maximum charging current.   So the device
you're looking at probably has a duty cycles of 25% or so, for around 15A.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 10:29 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase

On 09/24/2016 11:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> Warning Will Robinson.  The EVSE you selected are not good for modern 
> EV's.  Only 3.3kw.  They may not work with 6.6kw chargers.  Lawrence 
> Rhodes
It had not occurred to me that a 6.6kw charger would demand "all or
nothing".  Is that a possibility?  That is, might a Leaf with a 6.6kw
charger refuse to charge unless it was offered the full 6.6kw and would fail
to charge at an EVSE that offered only 3.3kw?


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter promises, androgynous-design and no-delays

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Earlier this year, there was a spate of news stories about the company
"Hybrid Industries" who would install a second pack (up to 24kWh) in the
trunk of your Leaf.  I just did some quick searching, but I couldn't find
out anyone who actually had the product installed, nor did their web site
seem to give many details of how it worked.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water
via EV
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 5:21 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter promises,
androgynous-design and no-delays

This is straightforward but quite a kludge as the CHAdeMO is not a simple
contactor and controller, but it is actually a power converter / battery
charger.
The Leaf actually does not care how much capacity the pack has, the pack has
an integrated BMS that is quite stand-alone and there is a HV wire and a CAN
bus running from car to pack, plus a few good old 12V contactor coil power
signals, which connect directly to the coils of precharge, positive and
negative contactors, that is it.
So, parallel attaching of an extra pack (Leaf or otherwise) is not too
difficult. Only thing I would question is if the Leaf is concerned about a
difference in current between what the motor draws and what the BMS
registers inside the pack. I have not tested if the Leaf actually cares
about that. If not, it is simply a matter of splicing the contactor control
signals and HV wiring and you can add a twin Leaf pack.

I have two complete 2011 Leaf packs that will go into my US Electricar
S10 truck, including the two Leaf BMS's so I can monitor all cells in both
packs via the 2 CAN buses (I will use a "CANary" for that)

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dennis via EV
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 3:46 PM
To: 'Lee Hart'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter
promises,androgynous-design and no-delays

How about this idea:  install an extra pack in the trunk and or back seat as
you say, but then attach the male end of a Chademo plug to it and do a
little Arduino programming to emulate the supply side of the Chademo.
Then
when you need some extra range, pull over and do a quick charge from the
extra pack.  Maybe call it the "Leaflet" and market it even.  :)

Bill 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 4:13 PM
To: Peri Hartman; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter promises,
androgynous-design and no-delays

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> Thanks for your detailed answer, Cor. I can't really justify 
> increasing from 24kwh to 30, so it's unlikely I'll pursue that. 200kwh

> would make a substantial difference, though. I could get rid of my
other
vehicle.
> We'll just have to see what happens over the next couple years, though

> I agree, I don't think battery tech has advanced enough to fit it in 
> the same space.

I have a 2013 Leaf, and have also been wondering if there's a practical way
to increase its pack capacity and thus range. Rather than fit something into
the same space as the present pack, I'm wondering if an add-on battery pack
can be installed in the truck or back seat area. 
Perhaps as a stack of "suitcases" of manageable size and weight, so they can
be loaded in by hand when the extra range is needed, and removed when they
are not.

The big unknown is how to add capacity in such a way that the Leaf's
computers will accept and use it.

--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left
to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
 -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter promises, androgynous-design and no-delays

[Bill Dennis via EV]

How about this idea:  install an extra pack in the trunk and or back seat as
you say, but then attach the male end of a Chademo plug to it and do a
little Arduino programming to emulate the supply side of the Chademo.  Then
when you need some extra range, pull over and do a quick charge from the
extra pack.  Maybe call it the "Leaflet" and market it even.  :)

Bill 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 4:13 PM
To: Peri Hartman; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter promises,
androgynous-design and no-delays

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> Thanks for your detailed answer, Cor. I can't really justify 
> increasing from 24kwh to 30, so it's unlikely I'll pursue that. 200kwh 
> would make a substantial difference, though. I could get rid of my other
vehicle.
> We'll just have to see what happens over the next couple years, though 
> I agree, I don't think battery tech has advanced enough to fit it in 
> the same space.

I have a 2013 Leaf, and have also been wondering if there's a practical way
to increase its pack capacity and thus range. Rather than fit something into
the same space as the present pack, I'm wondering if an add-on battery pack
can be installed in the truck or back seat area. 
Perhaps as a stack of "suitcases" of manageable size and weight, so they can
be loaded in by hand when the extra range is needed, and removed when they
are not.

The big unknown is how to add capacity in such a way that the Leaf's
computers will accept and use it.

--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left
to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
 -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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[EVDL] Breakers in Reverse?

[Bill Dennis via EV]

When putting a Heinemann breaker on the negative side of the battery pack
instead of the positive side, should the connections be reversed so that the
breaker's Load terminal is connected to the battery instead of its Line
terminal?

Thanks,

Bill

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[EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a battery
pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these blankets
will work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's
little control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an
automatic shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave
inverter.

Thanks,

Bill Dennis 

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Re: [EVDL] Improving Leaf economy & range.

[Bill Dennis via EV]

The new 2016 Chevy Volt has front grill shutters that automatically close at 
high speed, when less cooling airflow is needed, then open up at lower speeds 
to let in more air.  So that's one possibility, even if you control it manually 
yourself.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 6:10 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Improving Leaf economy & range.

I had some thoughts on Improving the CD of a Leaf. Moon hubcaps & fender 
skirts.  I was thinking these two simple additions might help.  Any other ideas 
other than a tail cone.  Lawrence Rhodes
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[EVDL] Electric Snowblower Conversion

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Combine a copious annual snowfall with a long steep driveway and you'll
understand why I've got such a monster of a snow blower sitting in my garage
(30 inches wide, 24 inches high, 8 horsepower engine).  I'd like to go
electric, but I've never seen an electric snow blower that large.  Has
anyone ever converted a gasoline snow blower to electric?  My biggest areas
of uncertainty up front are motor sizing and motor control.

Thanks,

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum-Air-Water Primary Battery Backup for LiIon Pack

[Bill Dennis via EV]

The recharge efficiency, I believe, is between only 15% - 20%.  But I don't
see it as much of an issue, since most people would be using the aluminum
battery only as a range extender, not in daily use.  The Phinergy test car
relies mostly on lithium cells for its primary mobility, employing the
Al-air battery  to recharge the lithium cells during extended trips.

When using the Phinergy cells, you need to stop and replace the electrolyte
every 200-to-300 miles.  The aluminum itself lasts longer.  Interesting, I
think the battery actually gains weight as you use it, since the atmospheric
oxygen that combines with the aluminum stays within the cell until you pump
it out and exchange it for fresh electrolyte at the above-mentioned 200-300
miles.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
via EV
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 10:40 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum-Air-Water Primary Battery Backup for LiIon Pack

Metal-air batteries seem to be pretty good for hearing aids.  For EVs, I'm
not so sure.  The main problem is that they're primary batteries - not
rechargeable.  When they're discharged, you have to rebuild them.  (Some
people call them metal fuel cells.) 

Alcan and Unique Mobility worked with Aluminum-Air batteries in the late
1980s.  They had a prototype system running in an Electrek EV (UM's
intriguing limited production purpose-built EV) but eventually concluded it
wasn't practical.  

In the 1990s, an Israeli company, Electric Fuel Corporation, developed Zn-
Air batteries with rebuildable zinc "cassettes."  They collaborated with the
German Post on a trial program of EVs using these batteries.  After several
years, the Post concluded that it wasn't a viable system. Electric Fuel
seems to have pretty much abandoned Zn-Air battery research and now
concentrates on conventional battery chemistries for industrial, medical,
and military uses.

http://www.efbpower.com/oem/

This isn't to say it's hopeless, just that there seem to be some substantial
hurdles for metal-air batteries in EVs.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

[Bill Dennis via EV]

David wrote:  
>>...though perhaps you might have been more skeptical. ;-) 

David,
  Typical aluminum-air cells have a power density of around 60-70 W/kg, so
40 W/kg didn't seem out of line.  To the contrary, it's the 3000 W/kg number
that seems awfully high.

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Cor wrote:
> Who do you trust...

 
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/04/flexible-aluminum-battery-charges-fas
t-stable-for-over-7000-cycles/  -- "But the fact that aluminum atoms only
transferred a single electron when they transited to the cathode is really
not taking full advantage of the whole reason that people think the material
would be good for batteries. And that leads to the low power density of
these batteries."

http://geniushowto.blogspot.com/2015/04/invented-aluminium-battery-recharges
-in-1-minute.html -- "The only disadvantage that these Aluminum ion
batteries haven't been able to cover is voltage and power density here it
lags behind lithium powered batteries average 4 volts with its 2 volts
production and packs a power of 40 watts/kg compared to lithium batteries
humongous 206 Watts/kg power density."

So I read those numbers in three different articles before posting.  But
after your Nature reference, I've also now found some articles quoting 3000
W/kg.   So it's hard to say which is correct at this point.  Note that the
arstechnica article referenced above specifically talks about lower power
density without using numbers.

Is it possible that the cells can be charged much faster than they can be
discharged, and the 3000 W/kg number is referring to charge rate, while the
40 W/kg number is discharge rate?

Bill  


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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Here's the URL to the article I quoted, plus the paragraph from the article
itself:

http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/06/stanfords-battery-charges-in-one-minute/

" Unlike earlier aluminum batteries, which generally failed after only about
100 recharge cycles, Stanford's prototype can cycle more than 7,500 times
without any capacity loss -- 7.5 times longer than your average li-ion. The
aluminum-ion cell isn't perfect (yet) as it can only produce about 2 volts,
far less than the 3.6V that lithium-ion an muster. Plus aluminum cells only
carry 40 watts of electricity per kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206
W/kg power density."

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water
via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 4:29 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

Actually,
the Nature article quotes 4 Amp per gram, so if a 2V cell weighs 1kg then it
could produce 4,000A or 8kW per kg

The Capacity is quoted as 70mAh per gram, which is 140 Wh per kg (again, at
the expected 2V cell voltage).

Note that all these numbers are the bare cell, so to compare with a CALB
180Ah cell you'd either need to subtract the CALB's housing and connection
hardware weight, or estimate how much it would add to the Alu battery to
make a similar rugged and packaged end product.
By all accounts, it looks like very competitive to Li cells, but all
research takes many years before you can place an order for commercial
available product...
If it is really cheaper, better, safer, then we can see it break through
sooner.
Time will tell.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dennis via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 2:59 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per
kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density--so you'd need
more of them to get the same power.  That might get better as they improve
the cells, of course.

Bill 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to
conventional batteries

Does anybody know any more about this research?

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/march/aluminum-ion-battery-033115.html 

Aluminum anode; graphite cathode. Unspecified salt for the electrolyte.

It's only about two volts. The rest of the specs are vague...nothing at all
about capacity. They claim super-fast charging times without indicating how
much energy the batteries actually take on. They claim several thousand
charge cycles. No mention of energy density per mass. The prototype is
bendable, in what looks for all the world like a mylar ziploc bag. They show
the battery being drilled into with minimal ill effect.

I find it intriguing to consider for an electric vehicle...because a
super-fast charging time, if real, would similarly imply a super-fast
discharge rate. It gives the appearance of being technology within the reach
of an hobbyist to manufacture. Form factor is obviously quite literally
flexible.

In other words...I can almost imagine building a battery like this, myself,
at home, to put into a car conversion. Or, if it's too heavy for vehicles,
then to stick in the closet to pair with the solar PV array.

Any experts out there have any good water to throw over me?

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I don’t think I’m confusing them.  Both units in the paragraph I pasted refer 
to Watts per kg.  That’s power, not energy.  But please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Bill

 

 

From: Peter Gabrielsson [mailto:peter.gabriels...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 4:03 PM
To: Bill Dennis; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

 

You may be confusing power and energy

On Apr 7, 2015 2:59 PM, "Bill Dennis via EV"  wrote:

Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per
kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density--so you'd need
more of them to get the same power.  That might get better as they improve
the cells, of course.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to
conventional batteries

Does anybody know any more about this research?

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/march/aluminum-ion-battery-033115.html

Aluminum anode; graphite cathode. Unspecified salt for the electrolyte.

It's only about two volts. The rest of the specs are vague...nothing at all
about capacity. They claim super-fast charging times without indicating how
much energy the batteries actually take on. They claim several thousand
charge cycles. No mention of energy density per mass. The prototype is
bendable, in what looks for all the world like a mylar ziploc bag. They show
the battery being drilled into with minimal ill effect.

I find it intriguing to consider for an electric vehicle...because a
super-fast charging time, if real, would similarly imply a super-fast
discharge rate. It gives the appearance of being technology within the reach
of an hobbyist to manufacture. Form factor is obviously quite literally
flexible.

In other words...I can almost imagine building a battery like this, myself,
at home, to put into a car conversion. Or, if it's too heavy for vehicles,
then to stick in the closet to pair with the solar PV array.

Any experts out there have any good water to throw over me?

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per 
kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density--so you'd need 
more of them to get the same power.  That might get better as they improve the 
cells, of course.

 

Bill 

 

 

From: Peter Gabrielsson [mailto:peter.gabriels...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 4:03 PM
To: Bill Dennis; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

 

You may be confusing power and energy

On Apr 7, 2015 2:59 PM, "Bill Dennis via EV"  wrote:

Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per
kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density--so you'd need
more of them to get the same power.  That might get better as they improve
the cells, of course.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to
conventional batteries

Does anybody know any more about this research?

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/march/aluminum-ion-battery-033115.html

Aluminum anode; graphite cathode. Unspecified salt for the electrolyte.

It's only about two volts. The rest of the specs are vague...nothing at all
about capacity. They claim super-fast charging times without indicating how
much energy the batteries actually take on. They claim several thousand
charge cycles. No mention of energy density per mass. The prototype is
bendable, in what looks for all the world like a mylar ziploc bag. They show
the battery being drilled into with minimal ill effect.

I find it intriguing to consider for an electric vehicle...because a
super-fast charging time, if real, would similarly imply a super-fast
discharge rate. It gives the appearance of being technology within the reach
of an hobbyist to manufacture. Form factor is obviously quite literally
flexible.

In other words...I can almost imagine building a battery like this, myself,
at home, to put into a car conversion. Or, if it's too heavy for vehicles,
then to stick in the closet to pair with the solar PV array.

Any experts out there have any good water to throw over me?

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per
kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density--so you'd need
more of them to get the same power.  That might get better as they improve
the cells, of course.

Bill 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to
conventional batteries

Does anybody know any more about this research?

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/march/aluminum-ion-battery-033115.html 

Aluminum anode; graphite cathode. Unspecified salt for the electrolyte.

It's only about two volts. The rest of the specs are vague...nothing at all
about capacity. They claim super-fast charging times without indicating how
much energy the batteries actually take on. They claim several thousand
charge cycles. No mention of energy density per mass. The prototype is
bendable, in what looks for all the world like a mylar ziploc bag. They show
the battery being drilled into with minimal ill effect.

I find it intriguing to consider for an electric vehicle...because a
super-fast charging time, if real, would similarly imply a super-fast
discharge rate. It gives the appearance of being technology within the reach
of an hobbyist to manufacture. Form factor is obviously quite literally
flexible.

In other words...I can almost imagine building a battery like this, myself,
at home, to put into a car conversion. Or, if it's too heavy for vehicles,
then to stick in the closet to pair with the solar PV array.

Any experts out there have any good water to throw over me?

b&
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[EVDL] Line and Load on Breakers

[Bill Dennis via EV]

When putting a Heinemann breaker on the negative side of a traction pack, do
you reverse the connections so that the current still flows in the same
direction though the breaker?  That is, should the Line side of the breaker
be connected to the B- terminal of the controller, and the Load side of the
breaker be attached to pack negative?

Thanks,

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

[Bill Dennis via EV]

>>...but the idea of charging in 'series' instead or parallel, is the PFC-30 
>>will provide more watts at higher voltage: 288Volts than charging at 144V?  

The question Steve was addressing was originally mine.  And yes, halving the 
charging time is the idea.  Since the PFC-30 is limited to the max of either 30 
amps on the input side or 30A on the output side, then with the strings in 
parallel, it can put at most 120V * 30A = 3600W into the pack, pulling 15A from 
the wall.  But with the strings in series, it can put 240V * 30A - 7200W into 
the pack, drawing 30A from the wall.

Bill 

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[EVDL] Motors in Parallel

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Last month, I wrote about hooking up two 8-inch ADC motors physically in
parallel, via a toothed belt.  I'm wondering how I need to size the belt.
The tail shaft of the motors sticks out about two inches, so that's where
the pulley will have to attach.  Unlike normal belt drives, this one won't
be transferring power to a load; it is mostly just to keep the motors in
synch.  Can anyone provide guidance?  I think Otmar did the same thing for a
Porsche 914.

Thanks,

Bill


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[EVDL] Insurance Woes

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I got rid of my Geo Metro EV and purchased a 1974 Saab Sonett that was
originaly converted to electric by Walter Kern, of Saab Quantum fame, back
in the 1980's.  I'm swapping the lead-acid batteries for lithium, plus
updating some of the electronics.  But my old insurance company, SafeCo, has
declined to insure the Saab, even though they'd been insuring my Geo EV for
8 years.  My insurance agent is unable to find anyone here in Utah that will
insure it.  I even called Haggerty myself, but they said they don't insure
electric vehicles.  So I need help.  Can anyone point me in the right
direction?  All I really need is liability.

Thanks,

Bill

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[EVDL] Open Circuit Voltage Across Contactors

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I've got two Anderson contacts on my pack, one on the negative side and one
on the positive side.  So when the key is out of the ignition, the
controller and all other components are separated from the traction pack.  I
currently have a 120V system, with two strings in parallel, because I have a
Curtis controller, which has a 144V max.  I would, however, like to be able
to charge faster with my PFC-30.  So my question is, if I reconfigure the
packs to be in series for charging, is there any problem, since both
contactors will be open?

Thanks,

Bill 

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[EVDL] 2 + 2 = Force?

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Unplanned, I've ended up having two 8-inch ADC motors and two Curtis motor
controllers.  Seems a shame to let one set go to waste, so I was wondering
what the complications would be with the following setup:

The two motors connected physically in parallel via pulleys and
ribbed-belt
Two pot boxes physically ganged together, one for each controller
One controller connected to each motor

Thanks,

Bill

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[EVDL] Maxforcer Motor Controller

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Does anyone on the list have experience with the Maxforcer Motor Controller?  
http://fptronics.weebly.com/

Thanks,

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Extra Wire

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Okay, I got out the ohm meter, and the prize goes to our esteemed EVDL
Administrator.  The extra wire is for turning the PB-6 from a 0-5k device
into a 5k-0 device.

Thanks,

Bill

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[EVDL] PB-6 Extra Wire

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I just came into possession of an older PB-6 pot box that has an extra wire
coming out just below the throttle wires.  Anybody know what it's for?

Thanks,

Bill

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[EVDL] Scrapping an EV

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I didn't have any takers on my "Starter EV, Just Add Batteries" offer.  So
I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car.  What's
the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard?  Do you have to
pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands
for whatever remaining parts it may have?

Thanks,

Bill

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[EVDL] 9-Inch ADC Motor Max Voltage

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Can a 9-inch ADC motor handle being run at 178 volts nominal?  

Thanks,

Bill Dennis

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[EVDL] Starter EV: Just Add Batteries

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Well, batteries, charger and a few other little things.
I'm going to be starting a new conversion project, and if anyone is
interested in buying my current EV after the batteries are removed, contact
me off-list.  This is a 1993 Geo Metro convertible.  I had 35 kWh of lithium
cells in it for a range of about 140 miles.  It comes with ADC 8-inch motor,
350A controller, ceramic heater, upgraded front and rear springs, 2/0
cabling, and front and rear aluminum battery boxes (front box under hood,
rear box down where gas take used to be).  I can answer any other questions
you might have.

Bill Dennis

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Re: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Does anyone know if there's a limit on the amount of current that can be
taken out of those center terminals on the Leaf cells?

Thanks,

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Roland via EV
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 10:31 AM
To: John Lussmyer; Electric Vehicle Discussion List; ph...@bill-collins.net
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.

You have to remember, there are four cells already connected together in
each module. Two sets of cells in series and the center tap connects the mid
point of the two cells in series.  

Connecting all three modules center taps, actually parallel six cells
together is consider as one cell.  This is the same as the manufacturer adds
more plates to a cell to increase it area.  This would for me to install
three 180 cell BMS units. 

Roland 
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Lussmyer via EV 
  To: ph...@bill-collins.net ; Electric
Vehicle Discussion List 
  Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 9:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.


  On Fri Oct 10 19:18:22 PDT 2014
ev@lists.evdl.org said:
  >I've been looking at using LEAF batteries also.  Since I'm planning a
lower
  >voltage system than the LEAF, I'm planning on paralleling groups of three
packs.
  >I noticed that the packs bring out the center tap between the two series
sets of
  >cells and I'm planning on paralleling the center connections as well as
the ends
  >of the string, so forcing the cells in the three packs to stay balanced.

  I quite purposely did NOT parallel the center connections.  This allows
the BMS to monitor EVERY cell (pair) to detect problems earlier.


  --

  Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!
http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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[EVDL] Ride an EV, Skip the Exercise?

[Bill Dennis via EV]

My wife has been wearing a Fit Bit device, which tracks both the number of
steps she takes and the number of floors she climbs daily.  An odd thing is
happening though:  when I drive her home from work in my EV, a 1500-ft (450
m) ascent, the device falsely gives her credit for about 7 floors climbed.
Yet when we make the trip in one of our ICE cars, it registers no such
floor-climbing credit.  My first thought is that maybe the stiffer
suspension on the EV is causing more vibration and fooling the device into
thinking that she's walking--does that sound plausible?  Or are there other
possibilities anyone could think of?  We've already tried removing the
device from her belt and putting it in her purse for the duration of the
ride, but it still gives her the credit.  I mean, I know that my EV is
great, but I don't think she's getting healthier just by riding in it.  :)

Bill  

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Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: AC or DC?

[Bill Dennis via EV]

We were hiking in England last week, and I saw a 2004 Smart Roadster.
Beautiful car.  Gets close to 50 mpg.  I thought, "when I get home, that's
going to be my next conversion."  But my dreams were dashed:  the car isn't
legal for US streets.  I even contacted some Registered Importers and the
DOT itself, but alas it's a no-go.  I saw a couple people in Europe who have
done them.  So if anyone on the list from Great Britain, Europe, Australia
or Mexico ever converts one, at least I could salivate over yours.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of jerry freedomev via
EV
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:03 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: AC or DC?

Ben,

 A Ghia  EV using lithium batteries and some aero, drag reduction  can go
240 miles or so on a Leaf battery pack. Pervious ones done this way used
about 100wthrs/mile on lead batteries.

Or one of the many kitcars, at least the more aero ones. Dead ICE ones can
be had cheap and easily converted.  You are on the right path as EV's cost
what they weigh.  A much lighter aero car takes a much smaller battery pack,
motor, controller, etc for the same performance.   

Or 100 mile battery range and an 8kw range extender I'm doing one that only
weighs 45lbs gives unlimited range on gasoline, E-85, Methanol, etc using
hot-rodded racing go cart motors readily available for those fuels.   

 Jerry Dycus



 


On Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:27 AM, Ben Goren via EV 
wrote:
  


On Jul 26, 2014, at 7:45 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:

> Just one more time, Ben.  Do you really need to keep the ICE?  Especially
with an old car like that - no computer, nothing electronic what so ever,
think how easy and simple your configuration would be if electric only.

I still haven't bought the car. If I'm going to do a pure BEV conversion,
this wouldn't be the car I'd do it with; instead, I'd get a Ghia or the
like. But a pure BEV car has the range problem, which is exacerbated in my
case by the spread-out nature of the Phoenix metro area plus our summer
heat...a car with a nominal 100 mile range is going to be stressful to drive
somewhere 30 miles away on a typical day like today with a 110F forecasted
high. Going somewhere 30 miles away and deciding on the fly to make a stop
another 10 miles out of the way on the way home isn't going to happen.

The idea with the Mustang is to get something not unlike the Volt. A couple
dozen pure electric miles would cover most of my driving, and a plugin
hybrid range aggressive on the electric (presumably resulting in fuel
economy rivaling that of an econobox when in that mode) would cover
everything else except for trips -- plus it should be great for trips. And
it should wind up having all sorts of performance.

So...if this car, yes, the ICE stays; if the ICE goes, not this car.

b&
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[EVDL] Middle Leaf Battery Terminal

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Does anyone know what amperage the middle terminal of a Leaf battery can
handle for balancing?

Thanks,

Bill

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[EVDL] Twin 8 Coupler

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Is there a company that makes a coupler for mechanically connecting two ADC 
8-inch motors end-to-end?

Thanks,

Bill
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Re: [EVDL] Solar roadways.

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I think that their best initial use and proving ground would be the parking 
lots they discuss on their site.  Personal driveways would be a great use, too, 
IMHO.  For example, we get about 6 feet (2 meters) of snow a year at my house, 
and I've often looked at putting in radiant driveway melt, but found it very 
expensive both to install and use.  But combining that with solar in the 
driveway instead of panels on the roof seems like an attractive idea.  And our 
current 165-foot (50 meter) driveway has been in place for 20 years--so 
wear-and-tear isn't as much of an issue as with a roadway.  

Bill
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[EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Bill Dennis via EV]

Lee wrote:
>But suppose you want to know how far you can go at a given speed (i.e. a
given load). 
>That is a much more complex calculation

I rented a Leaf recently, and I really don't like the "miles remaining"
thing.  It varies too much.  If you're going uphill, it gives a smaller
number of miles remaining.  Then when you get back on level ground, miles go
back up.  Going downhill it changes again.  Talk about range anxiety.  I'd
much rather have just as Empty-Full gauge as a regular car does.  Then I can
see just how fast the gauge is going down and estimate for myself.  I think
most people who have driving ICE cars all their lives have the same
instinct.  The "miles remaining" is only a rough estimate anyway, just like
the rough estimate I'd make by looking at the Empty-Full gauge. 

I'd be interested to hear other people's take on it.

Bill  

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