Re: [EVDL] sierraclub.org will hold fed's illegal Attack on Clean Air Act accountable
This was not intended as a joke or as a pseudo-The Onion article. If pollution cannot be mitigated at the source (for whatever reason), and that pollution is causing problems, and those affected have a way to take action or are required to take action...things will probably be tried*. (The tunnel approach may be useful...enclose all roads or move them underground and then filter all air in them.) * the dispute with California continues. The latest is the EPA is telling California that the homeless population there is resulting in Clean Water Act violations (yet fracking is okay?). Also, a few days before that California was called out for not meeting air quality standards, just after being told it can't regulate emissions... https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/24/politics/california-trump-epa-threat/index.html Tesla has already demonstrated that their HEPA filter carrying cars (most 2016 and newer S/X) can function as air scrubbers for PM2.5 pollution, cleaning both the cabin air and surrounding air (at least until the filter is clogged). See link for test. (BTW, PM2.5 exposure levels can also be translated into a "cigarettes smoked per day" equivalent health risk. 22 ug/m^3 = 1 cig per day. On the Air Quality Index scale, 22 ug/m^3 of PM2.5 is AQI 71 or 'Moderate'. Los Angeles average 24 hr air quality is the equivalent of about 1/2 of a cigarette per day, per person. EVs do reduce but not eliminate local PM2.5 emissions...tires are still a source, as are brakes, when regen isn't enough by itself.) There are also parallels elsewhere. City-scale water filtration systems are being added in communities across the country to deal with water pollution problems that our society has created for ourselves by not stopping pollution at the source. Now instead of sourcing water from pristine lakes, rivers, and aquifers, advanced filtration is necessary. Some cities are actively trying to protect their water sources to avoid needing to go down the route of costly extra filtration later. More: https://www.tesla.com/blog/putting-tesla-hepa-filter-and-bioweapon-defense-mode-to-the-test https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/dec/16/beijing-airpocalypse-city-almost-uninhabitable-pollution-china https://www.nrdc.org/experts/eric-goldstein/decision-time-nycs-upstate-drinking-water-supply https://www.twincities.com/2018/06/30/3m-pollution-flares-up-again-st-paul-park-oakdale-woodbury-lake-elmo-cottage-grove-water-systems/ http://berkeleyearth.org/air-pollution-and-cigarette-equivalence/ https://www.citylab.com/environment/2018/04/how-much-are-you-smoking-by-breathing-urban-air/558827/ https://www.kidsdata.org/topic/524/environment-airquality/table#fmt=2525=2,127,347,1763,331,348,336,171,321,345,357,332,324,369,358,362,360,337,327,364,356,217,353,328,354,323,352,320,339,334,365,343,330,367,344,355,366,368,265,349,361,4,273,59,370,326,333,322,341,338,350,342,329,325,359,351,363,340,335=88=1=desc https://www.digitaltrends.com/home/air-pollution-cigarettes/ https://www.epa.gov/air-trends/particulate-matter-pm25-trends http://oecdinsights.org/2016/09/08/air-pollution-tyres-and-brakes/ https://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=aqibasics.particle https://aqicn.org/calculator/ On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:22 Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > I see that my post was not clear. > > I’m asking for any evidence that anyone at any agency, in the legislature, > or any NGO has actually proposed this. > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > > > On Sep 21, 2019, at 4:13 AM, Mark Abramowitz > wrote: > > > > Please tell us why you think that this is not a joke. This idea ranks up > there with cutting holes in the mountains or using large fans to blow sway > air pollution. > > > > I’ve not heard this suggested, and am skeptical that it has. > > > > - Mark > > > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > > > >> On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:45 AM, Lee Hart via EV > wrote: > >> > >> From: Russ Sciville via EV > >>> I had to reply to this! Am I to understand that air scrubbers > >>> situated along highways will reduce pollution from vehicles? :-D > >>> That must be a joke. > >> > >> Sadly, it's not. Irrational laws may require irrational solutions. If > you're required by law to improve air quality, and prevented by law from > doing it at the source, what other choices do you have? Roadside scrubbers? > Ban driving in certain places and times, like some countries have done? > >> > >> Tunnels already require complex ventilation and filtration systems to > keep the air fresh enough to safely breathe. Likewise, old power plants > often have added-on scrubbers. > >> > >> Lee Hart > >> > >> -- > >> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James > >> -- > >> Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com > >> ___ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> Please
Re: [EVDL] sierraclub.org will hold fed's illegal Attack on Clean Air Act accountable
I see that my post was not clear. I’m asking for any evidence that anyone at any agency, in the legislature, or any NGO has actually proposed this. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Sep 21, 2019, at 4:13 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote: > > Please tell us why you think that this is not a joke. This idea ranks up > there with cutting holes in the mountains or using large fans to blow sway > air pollution. > > I’ve not heard this suggested, and am skeptical that it has. > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:45 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: >> >> From: Russ Sciville via EV >>> I had to reply to this! Am I to understand that air scrubbers >>> situated along highways will reduce pollution from vehicles? :-D >>> That must be a joke. >> >> Sadly, it's not. Irrational laws may require irrational solutions. If you're >> required by law to improve air quality, and prevented by law from doing it >> at the source, what other choices do you have? Roadside scrubbers? Ban >> driving in certain places and times, like some countries have done? >> >> Tunnels already require complex ventilation and filtration systems to keep >> the air fresh enough to safely breathe. Likewise, old power plants often >> have added-on scrubbers. >> >> Lee Hart >> >> -- >> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James >> -- >> Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] sierraclub.org will hold fed's illegal Attack on Clean Air Act accountable
From: Russ Sciville via EV > I had to reply to this! Am I to understand that air scrubbers > situated along highways will reduce pollution from vehicles? :-D > That must be a joke. Sadly, it's not. Irrational laws may require irrational solutions. If you're required by law to improve air quality, and prevented by law from doing it at the source, what other choices do you have? Roadside scrubbers? Ban driving in certain places and times, like some countries have done? Tunnels already require complex ventilation and filtration systems to keep the air fresh enough to safely breathe. Likewise, old power plants often have added-on scrubbers. Lee Hart -- Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James -- Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] sierraclub.org will hold fed's illegal Attack on Clean Air Act accountable
I had to reply to this!Am I to understand that air scrubbers situated along highways will reduce pollution from vehicles? :-D That must be a joke. You would reduce more pollution by sealing the disk brakes inside a container to catch brake dust which is heavily emitted from ICE's!EV's are super clean in this respect as can be seen by comparing the front wheels of cars that cover similar distances. EV's never seem to get dirty. Russ On Friday, 20 September 2019, 15:01:04 BST, Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote: If California loses its ability to directly set higher state-level emissions standards (states rights?) ... expect to see workarounds tried. The CA agreement with several automakers is one approach. Stationary and portable air scrubbers* in cities and along highways are another approach (possibly with incentives to install them). Increased EV rebates are yet another. These approaches could be funded by a combination of increased fuel taxes, ICE-specific sales taxes/surcharges, and ICE-specific registration fees**. There could also be specific sales surcharges for vehicles or manufacturers that don't meet state standards. No need to ban any particular vehicle from sale. The market will respond to the price signals. The CCL's carbon tax and dividend funding model could be adapted into a vehicle pollution tax and dividend to keep things revenue-neutral. The minimum goal for air scrubbing would be to at least maintain current air quality at each measurement location. * Tesla Model S and X vehicles with the HEPA air filtration feature might also qualify as air scrubbers. They're able to reduce PM2.5 pollution both in the cabin and in the surrounding air. https://www.tesla.com/blog/putting-tesla-hepa-filter-and-bioweapon-defense-mode-to-the-test **There is a certain parallel between ICE-specific fees used to pay to clean the air, and the EV fees added by some states ostensibly to offset lost fuel tax revenue (the fees generally grossly exceeds the lost revenue, especially when handled as a flat rate fee in contrast to an axle-weight-mile fee). On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 23:50 brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > https://www.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2019/09/sierra-club-denounces-trump-administration-s-indefensible-attack-states > Sierra Club Denounces Trump Administration’s Indefensible Attack on States’ > Freedom to Curb Vehicle Pollution > September 18, 2019 larisa.manescu @sierraclub.org > > WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Donald Trump tweeted out that his Administration > is revoking the Clean Air Act waiver that allows California to adopt and > enforce stronger greenhouse gas emissions standards on new cars and light > trucks than the federal government’s. It also allows the state to require > auto manufacturers to sell increasing numbers of electric vehicles in the > state. > > EPA’s revocation of California’s waiver has wide-reaching implications - it > also affects the population in 14 states plus D.C. that have adopted these > stronger restrictions on pollution from cars, and 11 states that have > adopted the Zero Emission Vehicle standards. The clean car standards > protect the environment and the public health of more than 118 million > people, upwards of 40 percent of the U.S. population. > > In response, Michael Brune, Executive Director of the Sierra Club, released > the following statement: > > “Donald Trump is committing an unprecedented and illegal attack on the > Clean > Air Act that will increase pollution in our communities and steal money > from > people’s wallets. This move is nothing more than pure vindictiveness from > an > Administration set on giving Big Oil a polluting pass at the expense of our > climate and the well-being of American families. > > For four decades, the Clean Air Act has granted states the right to protect > their residents from dangerous air pollution caused by transportation. > Trump’s actions will not go unchecked. The Sierra Club will challenge this > indefensible attack in court and hold this administration accountable.” > > About the Sierra Club > > The Sierra Club is America’s largest and most influential grassroots > environmental organization, with more than 3.5 million members and > supporters. In addition to protecting every person's right to get outdoors > and access the healing power of nature, the Sierra Club works to promote > clean energy, safeguard the health of our communities, protect wildlife, > and > preserve our remaining wild places through grassroots activism, public > education, lobbying, and legal action. For more information, visit > www.sierraclub.org. > [© sierraclub.org] > > > > https://www.pressreleasepoint.com/sierra-club-denounces-trump-administrations-indefensible-attack-states-freedom-curb-vehicle > Sierra Club Denounces Trump Administrations Indefensible Attack on States > Freedom to Curb Vehicle Pollution > September 18th, 2019 > ... > >
Re: [EVDL] sierraclub.org will hold fed's illegal Attack on Clean Air Act accountable
If California loses its ability to directly set higher state-level emissions standards (states rights?) ... expect to see workarounds tried. The CA agreement with several automakers is one approach. Stationary and portable air scrubbers* in cities and along highways are another approach (possibly with incentives to install them). Increased EV rebates are yet another. These approaches could be funded by a combination of increased fuel taxes, ICE-specific sales taxes/surcharges, and ICE-specific registration fees**. There could also be specific sales surcharges for vehicles or manufacturers that don't meet state standards. No need to ban any particular vehicle from sale. The market will respond to the price signals. The CCL's carbon tax and dividend funding model could be adapted into a vehicle pollution tax and dividend to keep things revenue-neutral. The minimum goal for air scrubbing would be to at least maintain current air quality at each measurement location. * Tesla Model S and X vehicles with the HEPA air filtration feature might also qualify as air scrubbers. They're able to reduce PM2.5 pollution both in the cabin and in the surrounding air. https://www.tesla.com/blog/putting-tesla-hepa-filter-and-bioweapon-defense-mode-to-the-test **There is a certain parallel between ICE-specific fees used to pay to clean the air, and the EV fees added by some states ostensibly to offset lost fuel tax revenue (the fees generally grossly exceeds the lost revenue, especially when handled as a flat rate fee in contrast to an axle-weight-mile fee). On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 23:50 brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > https://www.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2019/09/sierra-club-denounces-trump-administration-s-indefensible-attack-states > Sierra Club Denounces Trump Administration’s Indefensible Attack on States’ > Freedom to Curb Vehicle Pollution > September 18, 2019 larisa.manescu @sierraclub.org > > WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Donald Trump tweeted out that his Administration > is revoking the Clean Air Act waiver that allows California to adopt and > enforce stronger greenhouse gas emissions standards on new cars and light > trucks than the federal government’s. It also allows the state to require > auto manufacturers to sell increasing numbers of electric vehicles in the > state. > > EPA’s revocation of California’s waiver has wide-reaching implications - it > also affects the population in 14 states plus D.C. that have adopted these > stronger restrictions on pollution from cars, and 11 states that have > adopted the Zero Emission Vehicle standards. The clean car standards > protect the environment and the public health of more than 118 million > people, upwards of 40 percent of the U.S. population. > > In response, Michael Brune, Executive Director of the Sierra Club, released > the following statement: > > “Donald Trump is committing an unprecedented and illegal attack on the > Clean > Air Act that will increase pollution in our communities and steal money > from > people’s wallets. This move is nothing more than pure vindictiveness from > an > Administration set on giving Big Oil a polluting pass at the expense of our > climate and the well-being of American families. > > For four decades, the Clean Air Act has granted states the right to protect > their residents from dangerous air pollution caused by transportation. > Trump’s actions will not go unchecked. The Sierra Club will challenge this > indefensible attack in court and hold this administration accountable.” > > About the Sierra Club > > The Sierra Club is America’s largest and most influential grassroots > environmental organization, with more than 3.5 million members and > supporters. In addition to protecting every person's right to get outdoors > and access the healing power of nature, the Sierra Club works to promote > clean energy, safeguard the health of our communities, protect wildlife, > and > preserve our remaining wild places through grassroots activism, public > education, lobbying, and legal action. For more information, visit > www.sierraclub.org. > [© sierraclub.org] > > > > https://www.pressreleasepoint.com/sierra-club-denounces-trump-administrations-indefensible-attack-states-freedom-curb-vehicle > Sierra Club Denounces Trump Administrations Indefensible Attack on States > Freedom to Curb Vehicle Pollution > September 18th, 2019 > ... > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/koch-fossil-empire-fighting-2crush-squelch-the-booming-growing-threatening-EV-movement-tp4695130.html > koch-fossil-empire fighting 2crush/squelch the booming/growing/threatening > EV movement > ... > [dated] > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Koch-network-s-influence-machine-whoppers-v-tp4694939.html > Koch-network’s influence-machine whoppers (v) > Sep 05 2019 > ... > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/usatoday-s-koch-koolaid-debunked-Women-Love-Tesla-EVs-SWAK-tp4694092.html >
[EVDL] sierraclub.org will hold fed's illegal Attack on Clean Air Act accountable
https://www.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2019/09/sierra-club-denounces-trump-administration-s-indefensible-attack-states
Sierra Club Denounces Trump Administration’s Indefensible Attack on States’
Freedom to Curb Vehicle Pollution
September 18, 2019 larisa.manescu @sierraclub.org
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Donald Trump tweeted out that his Administration
is revoking the Clean Air Act waiver that allows California to adopt and
enforce stronger greenhouse gas emissions standards on new cars and light
trucks than the federal government’s. It also allows the state to require
auto manufacturers to sell increasing numbers of electric vehicles in the
state.
EPA’s revocation of California’s waiver has wide-reaching implications - it
also affects the population in 14 states plus D.C. that have adopted these
stronger restrictions on pollution from cars, and 11 states that have
adopted the Zero Emission Vehicle standards. The clean car standards
protect the environment and the public health of more than 118 million
people, upwards of 40 percent of the U.S. population.
In response, Michael Brune, Executive Director of the Sierra Club, released
the following statement:
“Donald Trump is committing an unprecedented and illegal attack on the Clean
Air Act that will increase pollution in our communities and steal money from
people’s wallets. This move is nothing more than pure vindictiveness from an
Administration set on giving Big Oil a polluting pass at the expense of our
climate and the well-being of American families.
For four decades, the Clean Air Act has granted states the right to protect
their residents from dangerous air pollution caused by transportation.
Trump’s actions will not go unchecked. The Sierra Club will challenge this
indefensible attack in court and hold this administration accountable.”
About the Sierra Club
The Sierra Club is America’s largest and most influential grassroots
environmental organization, with more than 3.5 million members and
supporters. In addition to protecting every person's right to get outdoors
and access the healing power of nature, the Sierra Club works to promote
clean energy, safeguard the health of our communities, protect wildlife, and
preserve our remaining wild places through grassroots activism, public
education, lobbying, and legal action. For more information, visit
www.sierraclub.org.
[© sierraclub.org]
https://www.pressreleasepoint.com/sierra-club-denounces-trump-administrations-indefensible-attack-states-freedom-curb-vehicle
Sierra Club Denounces Trump Administrations Indefensible Attack on States
Freedom to Curb Vehicle Pollution
September 18th, 2019
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/koch-fossil-empire-fighting-2crush-squelch-the-booming-growing-threatening-EV-movement-tp4695130.html
koch-fossil-empire fighting 2crush/squelch the booming/growing/threatening
EV movement
...
[dated]
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Koch-network-s-influence-machine-whoppers-v-tp4694939.html
Koch-network’s influence-machine whoppers (v)
Sep 05 2019
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/usatoday-s-koch-koolaid-debunked-Women-Love-Tesla-EVs-SWAK-tp4694092.html
(usatoday's koch-koolaid debunked)> Women Love Tesla EVs (SWAK)
Jul 09 2019
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Oily-Koch-Funded-antiEV-Group-misinformational-spew-debunked-tp4693817.html
Oily Koch-Funded antiEV Group misinformational-spew debunked
Of Course This 'Highly Biased Poll' By Oil-Funded Koch Groups Claims that
Americans Don’t Like Electric Cars ...
Jun 08 2019
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Koch-bough-paid4-profit-over-pollution-coalition-attacks-Kill-EV-Credits-tp4693537.html
Koch(bough) (profit$-over-pollution)coalition attacks> Kill-EV-Credits
May 12 2019
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/WY-Sen-Barrasso-Cronies-Parrot-Faulty-Koch-Claims-Kill-EV-Tax-Credits-tp4692784.html
WY-Sen.Barrasso Parrot Faulty Koch Claims> Kill EV Tax Credits
Feb 07 2019
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Koch-paid-Tobacco-Defenders-escalate-to-Kill-EV-Tax-Credit-tp4692041.html
Koch-paid Tobacco-Defenders escalate to Kill EV Tax Credit
Dec 06, 2018
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=koch=72=date
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