Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

A few years ago my wife and I bought two Catrikes brand recumbent tricycle.
After having three cirvical fusions in her neck my wife can no longer ride
a bicycle. The Catrikes a really fun to ride. Yes, I have rolled mine by
turning to quickly. About a year ago we added electric motors made by
Bionx. We can now ride further (we are in our mid-60s), but we do worry a
lot about not being seen by auto drivers.

On May 30, 2017 6:51 AM, "Chris Tromley via EV"  wrote:

> Other sources of insight are bentrideronline.com and recumbents.com.  Both
> have forums specifically for velomobiles, which is what you're building.
> Recumbents.com also has a lot of info on racing HPVs, which will get into
> efficiency, etc.  IHPVA.org might be a good source too.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  >
> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the
> > thing.  Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good
> > success with efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at
> 30mph
> > with a 20 inch wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc
> > but I'm willing to go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or
> > performance).  I will eventually have a shell with solar panels plus my
> 250
> > pound hunk O' fat.  Lawrence Rhodes
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:  > attachments/20170528/da9dcde9/attachment.htm>
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> > group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20170530/ddeec06f/attachment.htm>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[Chris Tromley via EV]

Other sources of insight are bentrideronline.com and recumbents.com.  Both
have forums specifically for velomobiles, which is what you're building.
Recumbents.com also has a lot of info on racing HPVs, which will get into
efficiency, etc.  IHPVA.org might be a good source too.

Chris

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the
> thing.  Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good
> success with efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at 30mph
> with a 20 inch wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc
> but I'm willing to go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or
> performance).  I will eventually have a shell with solar panels plus my 250
> pound hunk O' fat.  Lawrence Rhodes
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20170528/da9dcde9/attachment.htm>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[via EV]

Hi People.
Here's My recumbent tandem experience and links, plus a bit of history.

There is more detail in the used email but I've left it in, ignore it by all 
means.






I'll add a few numbers for the resident geek or maybe two.

The Back to back cycle has traveled over 2 km around the South Island, 
mostly unpowered , with only about 2000km  using a 2 stroke and later 4 
stroke weed wacker motor, driving via a worm drive gearbox to help on hills. 
I went to the 4 stroke for good green reasons but found the 4 stroke engine 
gutless.  We've done about the same distance on the back to back cycle using 
a now mothballed 48 volt  1200 watt electric motor.


In the TV video we were using an earlier 500 watt 24 volt mid drive electric 
bicycle motor.

As was noted it was hopeless!
We swapped that motor for the 48 volt 1200 watt version of the same type.
We also later used 240 watts of semi flexible solar panels which were much 
lighter providing a total human plus electronic  range of 120 km.
While this motor had the power when geared down it had a very annoying drill 
press like sound when running.   Apparently coming from straight cut gears 
in its planetary gearbox.as a "perfectionist" this sort of noise upsets me.
When I go out cycling without the sight-seeing, I at least want a good 
soundscape.
So after a bit of experimenting and mucking around we basically built the 
silent pusher trailer to push both the back to back cycle and later the 
Three wheeler.
Initially on the trailer as a one wheeled trailer I used a 48 volt 1000 watt 
direct drive nine continents hub motor set up as a mid drive motor.  Taking 
the hub out of its wheel and running a chain to the rear 16 inch wheel, 
providing 1.4 reduction with minimal noise .  This motor was actually in the 
bed of the trailer and so meant little room for the dog!


However with its 30 ah 48 volt battery we had great hill climbing and a 75 
km range, with two 80 kg people a 20 kg dog and 40 kg of cargo.  Although 
with an average touring speed of only 18 kph.


Finally I took this 1000 watt motor and employed it plus another identical 
motor on the four person four wheeler.These again driving via chain 
reduction  the rear wheels, independently.  Hence this cycle has 2000 watts 
of continuous power available.  In fact it draws only about 280 watts on 
average, with us pedaling and up to 2400 watts on steep hills.
Meanwhile, the now three wheeled trailer has been fitted with a 48 volt, 
1500 watt direct drive hub motor, this time still in its rim. Where it 
typically draws about 180 watts, again on average.


Both the pusher trailer and four person cycle drive systems provide 
excellent regenerative  braking so don't even require the sometimes squeaky 
disk or drum brakes.



I deliberately kept the maximum motorized speeds around 24 kph on all three 
recumbent cycles.
The four person four wheeler and two person three wheeler will soon be 
fitted with 400 and 200 watt solar arrays respectively.  Thus Allowing us to 
cycle tour without requiring grid connected campsites, the best type!



Cheers   Verne.  Ph 07 8564853 cell 027 5561333.




Links to the youtube clips...





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnVsJcKW0j8




Janus quad cycle




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKEoWzh0e6g




Four person recumbent



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g46FASE1Q



Trike with trailer









- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Ross via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>

To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>; <g...@tylernz.com>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.



In case it matters you may need to license ebikes with motor greater than
750W. Ymmv

On May 28, 2017 4:19 PM, "George Tyler via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:


Have a look at ebikes.ca , they have a setup that is basically a hub
motor used like mid motor run at a higher voltage and RPM than it is
normally used at, called the "strokemonkey". A 24V, 1kw motor used at 48V
gives 2kw. There is a calculator on there that is very helpful. Verne
Pavreel who has posted a few times Has a similar setup, one of the issues
with ebike setups is that the quoted efficiency is the maximum,  on a 
hill
you are often getting 50% with common ebikes. A more powerful motor will 
do

better on hills if run at the same power as the 50% ones, but then the
efficiency at light load suffers. Running the motor through a 
transmission
with gears that can be changed can help a lot to achieve high efficiency 
at

both extremes at the expense of drive complexity and reliability.
A 1kw ebike motor may draw 5A 48V at full speed lo load! While a
Prius 40kw draws 1A... obviously much more effort has been put into 
making

the Prius motor high efficiency. I have thought of usi

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[harry henderson via EV]

i ruled out recumbent trikes a long time ago for the same reasons, now if you 
want maximum visibility check out my ride

http://www.evalbum.com/4414 

harry Albuquerque, NM current bike:  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179 
current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000


On Mon, 5/29/17, Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.
 To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
 Date: Monday, May 29, 2017, 8:56 AM
 
 I bought a 3 wheel recumbent and
 the first thing I wanted to do was
 increase
 it's top speed above 20 MPH.  Having ridden a bike all
 my life, I
 figured it was no big deal...
 
 Once I got it, I rode it the
 next day AS-IS on my 15 mile rail-to-trail
 commute just to see how it rode, and I never
 rode it again.  20 MPH was
 scarry.  THe
 turning radius was worse than my prius.  My head was below
 the
 top of the wheels of massive cars next
 to me (on the 1 mile at the start it
 takes
 me to get to the trail).  That same mile had no sidewalks
 or sholders.
 
 Plus with
 three wheels you can be guaranteed to hit EVRY pothole and
 bump
 which are impossible to miss.  and
 Finally, I felt so vulnerable sitting
 just 1
 foot off the pavement and no emergency escape capability
 whatsoever.  On a vertical 2-wheel, I feel I
 can hit and roll, or avoid, or
 veer, or lay
 it down... all kinds of escape manevres.  Absoolutely
 none
 with a recumbent.  You are dead
 meat.
 
 Just a surprising
 awakening...
 
 Bob
 
 On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 4:04
 PM, Michael Ross via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
 wrote:
 
 > In
 many states there is a limit to the speed a pedal assisted
 motorized
 > bicycle can legally achieve
 on level ground. 20mph is common. What you can
 > hit on a downhill is not considered.
 >
 > You will find it
 difficult to get gearing that will provide a 30mph top
 > speed and allow enough torque at a
 standstill to start off with even the
 >
 slightest incline.  Since you are a fairly heavy pilot (and
 with the added
 > battery weight) this
 will be additionally difficult. You will have some
 > trouble finding hub motors (wherever you
 actually mount them, these are
 > your
 better choices) with useful gearing and that can take
 repeated
 > application of starting torque
 from you and the motor together.  Starting
 > off is you worst condition
 structurally.
 >
 > I
 think you want to investigate RC controller electronics
 (Kelley has stuff
 > that works). You did
 not say what sort of range you wish. A reasonable
 > starting point might be 10 miles on a
 charge. I was commuting 25 miles each
 >
 way with an Organic Transit ELF for a year. Battery-ing up
 for that was
 > costly. The ELF is a lot
 heavier due to substantial body work. Remember not
 > to let fully charged Li-ion cells too get
 hot.  Don't charge in the hot sun
 >
 and leave it all sitting out to broil.  It will ruin the
 cells, LiFePo
 > particularly. 100F or
 less only when fully charged.
 >
 > As trike user, I always thought a trailer
 with a pusher motor would bee a
 > good
 arrangement. It allows you to dispense with the electric
 drive when
 > that makes sense. You will
 have an easier time creating an experimental
 > test chassis and battery mounting means if
 it is not stuck onto a severely
 > space
 constrained and less than heartily built compact
 tricycle.
 >
 > Also the
 system can be switch from trike to trike or bike.
 >
 > I say this with
 significant knowledge of recumbent trike design.  I own
 a
 > Greenspeed touring trike (20003
 vintage GTO) which is considerably larger
 > and stouter than a Terratrike.
 >
 > I would also advocate
 a streamlined tailbox of some sort to improve drag. A
 > front fairing provides less improvement
 for the cost and effort compared to
 > a
 tail box. Full streamlining is of course the best
 solution.  People have
 > maintained
 45mph hour speeds for an hour with a good full fairing
 (level
 > ground).
 >
 > I have been to SF where I believe you
 live. Respectfully and as one who
 > used
 to ride off weighing 250 pounds, I think will be
 disappointed with how
 > a recumbent trike
 functions with the steep grades you will encounter (until
 > you reduce your body weight below 200
 pounds or less).  Even then it will
 > be
 quite strenuous and at time daunting.
 >
 >
 >
 There a folks in CA that have done a lot of the ground work
 for this.  You
 > would get ahead meeting
 and cultivating them. William Patterson  at UC
 > Irvine or Davis, I forget, used to teach
 ME classes on single track
 > recumbent
 design. Those classes spawned a host of smart recumbent
 builders.
 >
 > Good
 luck.
 >
 > On Sun, May
 28, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Russ Sciville via EV <ev@lists.evdl.or

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

I bought a 3 wheel recumbent and the first thing I wanted to do was
increase it's top speed above 20 MPH.  Having ridden a bike all my life, I
figured it was no big deal...

Once I got it, I rode it the next day AS-IS on my 15 mile rail-to-trail
commute just to see how it rode, and I never rode it again.  20 MPH was
scarry.  THe turning radius was worse than my prius.  My head was below the
top of the wheels of massive cars next to me (on the 1 mile at the start it
takes me to get to the trail).  That same mile had no sidewalks or sholders.

Plus with three wheels you can be guaranteed to hit EVRY pothole and bump
which are impossible to miss.  and Finally, I felt so vulnerable sitting
just 1 foot off the pavement and no emergency escape capability
whatsoever.  On a vertical 2-wheel, I feel I can hit and roll, or avoid, or
veer, or lay it down... all kinds of escape manevres.  Absoolutely none
with a recumbent.  You are dead meat.

Just a surprising awakening...

Bob

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Michael Ross via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> In many states there is a limit to the speed a pedal assisted motorized
> bicycle can legally achieve on level ground. 20mph is common. What you can
> hit on a downhill is not considered.
>
> You will find it difficult to get gearing that will provide a 30mph top
> speed and allow enough torque at a standstill to start off with even the
> slightest incline.  Since you are a fairly heavy pilot (and with the added
> battery weight) this will be additionally difficult. You will have some
> trouble finding hub motors (wherever you actually mount them, these are
> your better choices) with useful gearing and that can take repeated
> application of starting torque from you and the motor together.  Starting
> off is you worst condition structurally.
>
> I think you want to investigate RC controller electronics (Kelley has stuff
> that works). You did not say what sort of range you wish. A reasonable
> starting point might be 10 miles on a charge. I was commuting 25 miles each
> way with an Organic Transit ELF for a year. Battery-ing up for that was
> costly. The ELF is a lot heavier due to substantial body work. Remember not
> to let fully charged Li-ion cells too get hot.  Don't charge in the hot sun
> and leave it all sitting out to broil.  It will ruin the cells, LiFePo
> particularly. 100F or less only when fully charged.
>
> As trike user, I always thought a trailer with a pusher motor would bee a
> good arrangement. It allows you to dispense with the electric drive when
> that makes sense. You will have an easier time creating an experimental
> test chassis and battery mounting means if it is not stuck onto a severely
> space constrained and less than heartily built compact tricycle.
>
> Also the system can be switch from trike to trike or bike.
>
> I say this with significant knowledge of recumbent trike design.  I own a
> Greenspeed touring trike (20003 vintage GTO) which is considerably larger
> and stouter than a Terratrike.
>
> I would also advocate a streamlined tailbox of some sort to improve drag. A
> front fairing provides less improvement for the cost and effort compared to
> a tail box. Full streamlining is of course the best solution.  People have
> maintained 45mph hour speeds for an hour with a good full fairing (level
> ground).
>
> I have been to SF where I believe you live. Respectfully and as one who
> used to ride off weighing 250 pounds, I think will be disappointed with how
> a recumbent trike functions with the steep grades you will encounter (until
> you reduce your body weight below 200 pounds or less).  Even then it will
> be quite strenuous and at time daunting.
>
>
> There a folks in CA that have done a lot of the ground work for this.  You
> would get ahead meeting and cultivating them. William Patterson  at UC
> Irvine or Davis, I forget, used to teach ME classes on single track
> recumbent design. Those classes spawned a host of smart recumbent builders.
>
> Good luck.
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Russ Sciville via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I can vouch for the Lynch motor as I use one on my ride on mower.Using
> > three 90Ah 12v Pb cells it easily cuts for 20 minutes or more at time.
> > A brilliantly simple but powerful design and I have even met the guy who
> > designed it.
> >
> >       From: Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> >  To: Lawrence Rhodes <primobass...@sbcglobal.net>; Electric Vehicle
> > Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> >  Sent: Sunday, 28 May 2017, 20:09
> >  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> > > I'm looking at options for my Terratrik

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[Michael Ross via EV]

In case it matters you may need to license ebikes with motor greater than
750W. Ymmv

On May 28, 2017 4:19 PM, "George Tyler via EV"  wrote:

> Have a look at ebikes.ca , they have a setup that is basically a hub
> motor used like mid motor run at a higher voltage and RPM than it is
> normally used at, called the "strokemonkey". A 24V, 1kw motor used at 48V
> gives 2kw. There is a calculator on there that is very helpful. Verne
> Pavreel who has posted a few times Has a similar setup, one of the issues
> with ebike setups is that the quoted efficiency is the maximum,  on a hill
> you are often getting 50% with common ebikes. A more powerful motor will do
> better on hills if run at the same power as the 50% ones, but then the
> efficiency at light load suffers. Running the motor through a transmission
> with gears that can be changed can help a lot to achieve high efficiency at
> both extremes at the expense of drive complexity and reliability.
> A 1kw ebike motor may draw 5A 48V at full speed lo load! While a
> Prius 40kw draws 1A... obviously much more effort has been put into making
> the Prius motor high efficiency. I have thought of using the Prius MG1
> motor, the small 20kw one, in an ebike. What current does the Lynch motor
> draw running free at 48V? anyone know?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> via EV
> Sent: 29 May, 2017 6:53 AM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.
>
> I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the
> thing.  Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good
> success with efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at 30mph
> with a 20 inch wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc
> but I'm willing to go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or
> performance).  I will eventually have a shell with solar panels plus my 250
> pound hunk O' fat.  Lawrence Rhodes
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20170528/da9dcde9/attachment.htm>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag
> racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[Michael Ross via EV]

In many states there is a limit to the speed a pedal assisted motorized
bicycle can legally achieve on level ground. 20mph is common. What you can
hit on a downhill is not considered.

You will find it difficult to get gearing that will provide a 30mph top
speed and allow enough torque at a standstill to start off with even the
slightest incline.  Since you are a fairly heavy pilot (and with the added
battery weight) this will be additionally difficult. You will have some
trouble finding hub motors (wherever you actually mount them, these are
your better choices) with useful gearing and that can take repeated
application of starting torque from you and the motor together.  Starting
off is you worst condition structurally.

I think you want to investigate RC controller electronics (Kelley has stuff
that works). You did not say what sort of range you wish. A reasonable
starting point might be 10 miles on a charge. I was commuting 25 miles each
way with an Organic Transit ELF for a year. Battery-ing up for that was
costly. The ELF is a lot heavier due to substantial body work. Remember not
to let fully charged Li-ion cells too get hot.  Don't charge in the hot sun
and leave it all sitting out to broil.  It will ruin the cells, LiFePo
particularly. 100F or less only when fully charged.

As trike user, I always thought a trailer with a pusher motor would bee a
good arrangement. It allows you to dispense with the electric drive when
that makes sense. You will have an easier time creating an experimental
test chassis and battery mounting means if it is not stuck onto a severely
space constrained and less than heartily built compact tricycle.

Also the system can be switch from trike to trike or bike.

I say this with significant knowledge of recumbent trike design.  I own a
Greenspeed touring trike (20003 vintage GTO) which is considerably larger
and stouter than a Terratrike.

I would also advocate a streamlined tailbox of some sort to improve drag. A
front fairing provides less improvement for the cost and effort compared to
a tail box. Full streamlining is of course the best solution.  People have
maintained 45mph hour speeds for an hour with a good full fairing (level
ground).

I have been to SF where I believe you live. Respectfully and as one who
used to ride off weighing 250 pounds, I think will be disappointed with how
a recumbent trike functions with the steep grades you will encounter (until
you reduce your body weight below 200 pounds or less).  Even then it will
be quite strenuous and at time daunting.


There a folks in CA that have done a lot of the ground work for this.  You
would get ahead meeting and cultivating them. William Patterson  at UC
Irvine or Davis, I forget, used to teach ME classes on single track
recumbent design. Those classes spawned a host of smart recumbent builders.

Good luck.

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Russ Sciville via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> I can vouch for the Lynch motor as I use one on my ride on mower.Using
> three 90Ah 12v Pb cells it easily cuts for 20 minutes or more at time.
> A brilliantly simple but powerful design and I have even met the guy who
> designed it.
>
>   From: Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>  To: Lawrence Rhodes <primobass...@sbcglobal.net>; Electric Vehicle
> Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>  Sent: Sunday, 28 May 2017, 20:09
>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.
>
> Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> > I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the
> thing.
> > Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good success
> with
> > efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at 30mph with a 20
> inch
> > wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc but I'm
> willing to
> > go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or performance).  I will
> > eventually have a shell with solar panels...
>
> Maybe a Lynch motor (Lynch, Lemco, Etek, AGNI, etc.)? They are over 90%
> efficient, and being a DC motor, can be switched straight to the battery
> for no
> controller losses. Rig a series/parallel setup with switches or relays to
> get
> 12v/24v/48v for speed control; that's also essentially 100% efficient.
> --
> Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
> violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
> in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[George Tyler via EV]

Have a look at ebikes.ca , they have a setup that is basically a hub motor used 
like mid motor run at a higher voltage and RPM than it is normally used at, 
called the "strokemonkey". A 24V, 1kw motor used at 48V gives 2kw. There is a 
calculator on there that is very helpful. Verne Pavreel who has posted a few 
times Has a similar setup, one of the issues with ebike setups is that the 
quoted efficiency is the maximum,  on a hill you are often getting 50% with 
common ebikes. A more powerful motor will do better on hills if run at the same 
power as the 50% ones, but then the efficiency at light load suffers. Running 
the motor through a transmission with gears that can be changed can help a lot 
to achieve high efficiency at both extremes at the expense of drive complexity 
and reliability.
A 1kw ebike motor may draw 5A 48V at full speed lo load! While a Prius 
40kw draws 1A... obviously much more effort has been put into making the Prius 
motor high efficiency. I have thought of using the Prius MG1 motor, the small 
20kw one, in an ebike. What current does the Lynch motor draw running free at 
48V? anyone know?

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV
Sent: 29 May, 2017 6:53 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the thing.  
Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good success with 
efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at 30mph with a 20 inch 
wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc but I'm willing to go 
higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or performance).  I will eventually 
have a shell with solar panels plus my 250 pound hunk O' fat.  Lawrence Rhodes
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing 
at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[Russ Sciville via EV]

I can vouch for the Lynch motor as I use one on my ride on mower.Using three 
90Ah 12v Pb cells it easily cuts for 20 minutes or more at time.
A brilliantly simple but powerful design and I have even met the guy who 
designed it.

  From: Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
 To: Lawrence Rhodes <primobass...@sbcglobal.net>; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
 Sent: Sunday, 28 May 2017, 20:09
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.
   
Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the thing.
> Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good success with
> efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at 30mph with a 20 inch
> wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc but I'm willing to
> go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or performance).  I will
> eventually have a shell with solar panels...

Maybe a Lynch motor (Lynch, Lemco, Etek, AGNI, etc.)? They are over 90% 
efficient, and being a DC motor, can be switched straight to the battery for no 
controller losses. Rig a series/parallel setup with switches or relays to get 
12v/24v/48v for speed control; that's also essentially 100% efficient.
-- 
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



   
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170528/26d5c35e/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[Lee Hart via EV]

Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the thing.
Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good success with
efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at 30mph with a 20 inch
wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc but I'm willing to
go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or performance).  I will
eventually have a shell with solar panels...


Maybe a Lynch motor (Lynch, Lemco, Etek, AGNI, etc.)? They are over 90% 
efficient, and being a DC motor, can be switched straight to the battery for no 
controller losses. Rig a series/parallel setup with switches or relays to get 
12v/24v/48v for speed control; that's also essentially 100% efficient.

--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)