subject:"Re\: \[Evangelism\] cost comparison"

Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison

2009-12-09 Thread Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.]

Norman,

What type of shop do you run or work at, and where are you located?

It'd be great to get more user/adopter/designer/developer user stories 
out there by way of interview/ustream/youtube.  There's been a lot of 
FUD put out there by the PHP-ers of the world about how difficult Plone 
was to get ramped up with.  They leave out that PHP is the only 
scripting technology that they know and that Plone doesn't use PHP, of 
course.

Anyhow, if you can do a self-produced video/screencast of the things 
you've found that Plone makes easy that you haven't found in other 
tools, it would be so powerful in getting the word out.  This type of 
message from Plone integrators just doesn't carry as much weight.

Thanks,
Ken Wasetis
www.contextualcorp.com

Norman Fournier wrote:

On 2009-12-08, at 11:33 PM, Alexander Limi wrote:

Also, TCO usually means "we couldn't find any other way to justify 
the cost of our product, and we're taking a beating in the market 
right now, so we made up* this totally arbitrary calculation that 
shows our competitor as being harder to use / weird to set up / too 
communist."

* aka. "paid a company to make charts"

At least that's what usually happens when Microsoft starts touting 
TCO numbers. ;)

--
Alexander Limi · http://limi.net 

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] 
> wrote:

Virginia,

I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding
to Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too.
 Besides the cost factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his
(two-part?) blog post regarding the Plone vs. Sharepoint
comparison.
 http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/

I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS
tools a few years ago and they chose RedDot.  At the time, the
price for their .Net-based CMS plus their Java-based personalized
portal delivery engine, plus a 'Quick Start' where a small
portion of the website was themed/implemented was to run about
$330K in US$.

Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is
broken up into many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this
client would have paid a bit more for what they needed from IWOV
than what the RedDot (now OpenText) price was, even.  Probably
not a lot more, though.

Seems like the bigger players such as
Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite, OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the
350-500K US$ range by the time you buy licenses for not only your
production servers, but also development and/or staging.

Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing
were in the $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most
Plone shops will charge.

Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc.
 With the commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of
license cost just to keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site
services, just emergency support, access to the online knowledge
base, forums, etc.
If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't
imagine the other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone
on a financial basis, but others would disagree.

-Ken

Nate Aune wrote:

i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint
calculator can be used to determine the total cost of
ownership if you have to buy all the user licenses and
software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft products.

http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx

found via Cynapse blog:
http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint

Nate

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy
mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com>
>> wrote:

   Hi,

   Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of

ownership
   or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone,
Sharepoint,
   Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise
solution?

   Thanks Virginia

   ~

   Virginia Choy
   Business Development Manager
   PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions
   Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia
   P: 612-8081-9072
   M: 0423-198-306
   W: www.pretaweb.com 
>

   Sales & Support: 02-9955-2830
___
   Evangelism mailing list
   Evangelism@lists.plone.org

Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison

2009-12-09 Thread Norman Fournier

On 2009-12-08, at 11:33 PM, Alexander Limi wrote:

> Also, TCO usually means "we couldn't find any other way to justify the cost 
> of our product, and we're taking a beating in the market right now, so we 
> made up* this totally arbitrary calculation that shows our competitor as 
> being harder to use / weird to set up / too communist."
> 
> * aka. "paid a company to make charts"
> 
> At least that's what usually happens when Microsoft starts touting TCO 
> numbers. ;)
> 
> -- 
> Alexander Limi · http://limi.net
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] 
>  wrote:
> Virginia,
> 
> I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding to 
> Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too.  Besides the cost 
> factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his (two-part?) blog post regarding 
> the Plone vs. Sharepoint comparison.  
> http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/
> 
> I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS tools a few 
> years ago and they chose RedDot.  At the time, the price for their .Net-based 
> CMS plus their Java-based personalized portal delivery engine, plus a 'Quick 
> Start' where a small portion of the website was themed/implemented was to run 
> about $330K in US$.
> 
> Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is broken up into 
> many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this client would have paid a 
> bit more for what they needed from IWOV than what the RedDot (now OpenText) 
> price was, even.  Probably not a lot more, though.
> 
> Seems like the bigger players such as Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite, 
> OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the 350-500K US$ range by the time you buy 
> licenses for not only your production servers, but also development and/or 
> staging.
> 
> Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing were in the 
> $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most Plone shops will charge.
> 
> Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc.  With the 
> commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of license cost just to 
> keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site services, just emergency support, 
> access to the online knowledge base, forums, etc. 
> If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't imagine the 
> other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone on a financial basis, but 
> others would disagree.
> 
> -Ken
> 
> 
> Nate Aune wrote:
> i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator can be 
> used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to buy all the user 
> licenses and software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft products.
> http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx
> 
> found via Cynapse blog: 
> http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint
> 
> Nate
> 
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy  > wrote:
> 
>Hi,
> 
> 
>Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership
>or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint,
>Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution?
> 
> 
>Thanks Virginia
>
>~
>Virginia Choy
>Business Development Manager
>PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions
>Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia
>P: 612-8081-9072
>M: 0423-198-306
>W: www.pretaweb.com 
> 
>Sales & Support: 02-9955-2830
> ___
>Evangelism mailing list
>Evangelism@lists.plone.org 
> 
>http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism



Plone has been shown to be the least expensive web dev environment of all, save 
raw xhtml and css, at least for me, if only based on getting the job done. All 
promises look inexpensive until the rubber hits the road. Based on comparisons 
between custom apps developed jsp and plone, plone is bar none the hands down 
winner as far as speed to the gate and working features. No comparison.

I have fired all web-dev and do it using plone. It is hard to impress how 
significant this capacity is, for a designer, being able to even program a form 
without contracting a programmer. What a significant hurdle that simple 
function presents.

Plone has shown it gets the job done, vanilla. Many discussions on the 
plone-user list regarding deployment issues turn out moot or redundant. Plone 
is great software. For comparison, Codeigniter offer a Zope-like interface into 
lamphp but lacks a graphical ttw plone-like interface, which I intuitively know 
to be significant but am unable to articulate the manifold advantages this 
gives plone. But I know if offers another context in which to interface with 
and manipulate the Zope Object Da

Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison

2009-12-08 Thread Alexander Limi

Also, TCO usually means "we couldn't find any other way to justify the cost
of our product, and we're taking a beating in the market right now, so we
made up* this totally arbitrary calculation that shows our competitor as
being harder to use / weird to set up / too communist."

* aka. "paid a company to make charts"

At least that's what usually happens when Microsoft starts touting TCO
numbers. ;)

-- 
Alexander Limi · http://limi.net


On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] <
ken.wase...@contextualcorp.com> wrote:

> Virginia,
>
> I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding to
> Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too.  Besides the cost
> factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his (two-part?) blog post regarding
> the Plone vs. Sharepoint comparison.
> http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/
>
> I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS tools a few
> years ago and they chose RedDot.  At the time, the price for their
> .Net-based CMS plus their Java-based personalized portal delivery engine,
> plus a 'Quick Start' where a small portion of the website was
> themed/implemented was to run about $330K in US$.
>
> Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is broken up
> into many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this client would have
> paid a bit more for what they needed from IWOV than what the RedDot (now
> OpenText) price was, even.  Probably not a lot more, though.
>
> Seems like the bigger players such as Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite,
> OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the 350-500K US$ range by the time you buy
> licenses for not only your production servers, but also development and/or
> staging.
>
> Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing were in the
> $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most Plone shops will charge.
>
> Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc.  With the
> commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of license cost just to
> keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site services, just emergency support,
> access to the online knowledge base, forums, etc.
> If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't imagine the
> other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone on a financial basis,
> but others would disagree.
>
> -Ken
>
>
> Nate Aune wrote:
>
>> i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator can
>> be used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to buy all the
>> user licenses and software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft
>> products.
>>
>> http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx
>>
>> found via Cynapse blog:
>> http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint
>>
>> Nate
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy > virgi...@pretaweb.com>> wrote:
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>
>>Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership
>>or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint,
>>Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution?
>>
>>
>>Thanks Virginia
>>
>>
>>~
>>Virginia Choy
>>Business Development Manager
>>PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions
>>Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia
>>P: 612-8081-9072
>>M: 0423-198-306
>>W: www.pretaweb.com 
>>
>>Sales & Support: 02-9955-2830
>>
>>
>>
>>___
>>Evangelism mailing list
>>Evangelism@lists.plone.org 
>>
>>http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com 
>>
>> http://www.jazkarta.com
>> http://card.ly/natea
>> http://tungle.me/natea
>> +1 (617) 517-4953
>> 
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Evangelism mailing list
>> Evangelism@lists.plone.org
>> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Evangelism mailing list
> Evangelism@lists.plone.org
> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
>
___
Evangelism mailing list
Evangelism@lists.plone.org
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Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison

2009-12-08 Thread Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.]


Virginia,

I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding to 
Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too.  Besides the 
cost factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his (two-part?) blog post 
regarding the Plone vs. Sharepoint comparison.  
http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/


I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS tools a few 
years ago and they chose RedDot.  At the time, the price for their 
.Net-based CMS plus their Java-based personalized portal delivery 
engine, plus a 'Quick Start' where a small portion of the website was 
themed/implemented was to run about $330K in US$.


Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is broken up 
into many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this client would have 
paid a bit more for what they needed from IWOV than what the RedDot (now 
OpenText) price was, even.  Probably not a lot more, though.


Seems like the bigger players such as Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite, 
OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the 350-500K US$ range by the time you 
buy licenses for not only your production servers, but also development 
and/or staging.


Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing were in 
the $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most Plone shops will 
charge.


Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc.  With 
the commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of license cost 
just to keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site services, just 
emergency support, access to the online knowledge base, forums, etc. 

If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't imagine 
the other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone on a financial 
basis, but others would disagree.


-Ken


Nate Aune wrote:
i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator 
can be used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to 
buy all the user licenses and software licenses for the other 
dependent Microsoft products.

http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx

found via Cynapse blog: 
http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint


Nate

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy > wrote:


Hi,

 


Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership
or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint,
Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution?

 


Thanks Virginia

 


~
Virginia Choy
Business Development Manager
PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions
Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia
P: 612-8081-9072
M: 0423-198-306
W: www.pretaweb.com 
Sales & Support: 02-9955-2830

 



___
Evangelism mailing list
Evangelism@lists.plone.org 
http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism




--
Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com 
http://www.jazkarta.com
http://card.ly/natea
http://tungle.me/natea
+1 (617) 517-4953


___
Evangelism mailing list
Evangelism@lists.plone.org
http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
  


___
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Evangelism@lists.plone.org
http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism

Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison

2009-12-08 Thread Nate Aune

i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator can be
used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to buy all the
user licenses and software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft
products.
http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx

found via Cynapse blog:
http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint

Nate

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy  wrote:

>  Hi,
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership or general
> cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint, Teamsite,, RedDot or
> any other proprietary enterprise solution?
>
>
>
> Thanks Virginia
>
>
>
> ~
> Virginia Choy
> Business Development Manager
> PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions
> Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia
> P: 612-8081-9072
> M: 0423-198-306
> W: www.pretaweb.com
> Sales & Support: 02-9955-2830
>
>
>
> ___
> Evangelism mailing list
> Evangelism@lists.plone.org
> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
>
>


-- 
Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com
http://www.jazkarta.com
http://card.ly/natea
http://tungle.me/natea
+1 (617) 517-4953
___
Evangelism mailing list
Evangelism@lists.plone.org
http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism

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