Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-26 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Hal,
   About this zero information feature, could it be due to a strict 
communitivity between any given subset of the All/Nothing? I ask this 
because it seems to me that the information content of any string follows 
from the existence of a difference between one ordering of the bits as 
compared to another. Commutativity would erase (bad choice of wording) the 
difference. In your theory, the distinction between what it *is* from what 
it *is not, when we chain it out to tuples, is obviously a 
non-commutativity property, at least.

Kindest regards,
Stephen
- Original Message - 
From: Hal Ruhl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: everything-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model


Below is a background for my model and a rewrite of the original post.
My concerns with a TOE which I am trying to resolve are:
I would like to see the theory have a zero information content.
I would like an origin for what we perceive as a changing reality - a 
dynamic.

Postulating the existence of entities like an Everything or a 
Plenitude etc. seemed to me to leave residual information in the system 
because the definitional structure surrounding these concepts was like a 
label with an unfulfilled potential to distinguish another entity not in 
the system i.e. a Nothing.

This eventually lead to the idea that definition was actually a boundary 
separating what a thing being defined is from what it is not and the is 
not is another thing.  So definition simultaneously defines two 
entities - an [is, is not] pair.

Another Idea I posted on awhile back was that a dynamic could be based on 
the incompleteness of the Nothing.  It could resolve no meaningful 
questions about itself.  Was there such a question?  I proposed that it 
must resolve the question of its own stability - will it persist. 
Eventually the Nothing would have to spontaneously become something to try 
to resolve this question and this something would then evolve as it tried 
to complete itself and become an Everything.

However if the Everything and the Nothing were a defintional [is, is 
not] pair which seemed reasonable what would give existence preference to 
one over the other and simultaneously put the system in a state of unused 
potential to divide i.e. contain information.

The existence of at least one of the pair seemed assured so could the 
system work if both existed simultaneously?

This eventually resulted in my post which is revised below.
Definitions:
1) Information: Information is the potential to establish a boundary.
2) Kernel of information: The information required for the potential to 
establish a specific boundary.

3) The All: The complete kernel ensemble.
4) The Nothing: That which is empty of all kernels.
5) The Everything: The boundary which contains the All and separates it 
from the Nothing.  Thus it also contains the Nothing.

6) A Something: A division [by a boundary] of the All into two subparts.
7) True noise: An inconsistency of the evolution of a Something reflected 
in the course of physical reality given to universes within it.

Proposal: The Existence of our and other universes and their dynamics are 
the result of unavoidable definition and logical incompleteness.

Justification:
1) Given definitions 3, 4, and 5:
2) These definitions are interdependent because you can not have one 
without the whole set.

3) Notice that Defining is the same as establishing a boundary between 
what a thing is and what it is not.  This defines a second thing: the is 
not.  A thing can not be defined in isolation.

4) These definitions are unavoidable because at least one of the [All, 
Nothing] pair must exist.  Since they form an [is, is not] pair they 
bootstrap each other into existence.

5) The Nothing has a logical problem: since it is empty of kernels it can 
not answer any meaningful question about itself including the unavoidable 
one of its own stability [persistence].

6) To answer this unavoidable question the Nothing must at some point 
penetrate the boundary between itself and the All [the only place 
information resides] in an attempt to complete itself.  This could be 
viewed as a spontaneous symmetry breaking.

7) However, the boundary is permanent as required by the definitions and a 
Nothing must remain.

8) Thus the penetration process repeats in an always was and always will 
be manner.

9) The boundary penetration produces a shock wave [a boundary] that 
moves into the All as the old example of Nothing becomes a Something and 
tries to complete itself.  This divides the All into two evolving 
Somethings - evolving multiverses.  Notice that half the multiverses are 
contracting - losing kernels.

10) Notice that the All also has a logical problem.  Looking at the same 
meaningful question of its own stability it contains all possible answers 
because just one would constitute a selection i.e. net internal 
information which is not an aspect of a complete 

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-26 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Stephen:
Since the Nothing has no information by definition and the boundary between 
them - the Everything - has no potential to divide further [i.e. no 
information] then the All must have no information if the system has no 
information.  I do not think the latter part is controversial.  For this to 
be so, somehow the kernels within the All sum to no net information.  Like 
red, green, and blue can sum to white when viewed from a proper 
perspective.  I used to call these complete sets of counterfactuals.

To finish responding to a previous question in the thread if a complete set 
of counterfactuals was composed of just two kernels these kernels would be 
what I called pair wise inconsistent kernels.

Hal
At 02:45 PM 12/26/2004, you wrote:
Dear Hal,
   About this zero information feature, could it be due to a strict 
communitivity between any given subset of the All/Nothing? I ask this 
because it seems to me that the information content of any string 
follows from the existence of a difference between one ordering of the 
bits as compared to another. Commutativity would erase (bad choice of 
wording) the difference. In your theory, the distinction between what 
it *is* from what it *is not, when we chain it out to tuples, is 
obviously a non-commutativity property, at least.

Kindest regards,
Stephen



Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-26 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi John:
At 06:12 PM 12/26/2004, you wrote:
Dear Hal,
is there some draft seeable on the web?
Not yet.  If the idea still looks good at the end of this thread I intend 
to post something on my web page with visual aids etc.

 I thought I am comfortable with your
terminology (whether I understand it or not) but now I wonder:
Is Everything part of All, or All part of Everything? Then again it should
be that Nothing is part of Everything, maybe not necessarily of All. You
cannot say that everything except the nothing, but nothing cannot be part
of All: it is per definitionem the entirety of somethings.
I called the boundary between the Nothing and the All the Everything 
because it being the only boundary of both it contains them both.  The All 
of course contains a kernel re the founding definition and thus there is an 
infinitely nested potential to have All/Nothing pairs.

To the exchange with Stephen:
(My) no-info Plenitude is so, because it contains the 'everything' in a
timeless, dynamic(!!) total symmetry (=invariance of unlimited exchange), so
no observables can be extracted in that atemporality. Then again THIS is
information, so it is not true that it has none. I have a feeling that your
no-info suffers from he same malaise. Unless you separate the information
of the description from the info about the inner components only.
The description of the All is one side of the definitional [is, is not] 
pair.  The description of the Nothing is the other side.  The simultaneous 
existence of both the All and the Nothing eliminates any residual potential 
to establish a boundary [information] that might have been inherent in the 
definition.

Hal