Leibniz was quite the dandy!
What is matter? Never mind. What is mind? No matter. If life isn't non-physical, why can't I understand it? I think it's time I had some cake -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
If a donut was baked that was large enough, would the hole in the middle of it be so large that even God couldn't eat it?
Should the holes in donuts even count as part of the donut? If so, what of Timbits? Could God eat so many donuts that there would be none left for us? Could we, perhaps term this the donut catastrophe? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
If life is nonphysical, can it survive a black hole catastrophe ?
If life is nonphysical, can it survive a black hole catastrophe ? No, then shouldn't it eventually be cleaned up out of the universe filled with so many black holes ? How about mind, can it remember information through such an experience ? Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Whui I keep posting about Leibniz
On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > I am accused of wasting peoples' time by constantly posting here and > elsewhere on the subject of Leibniz. > I have nothing against Leibniz and that's not why you're wasting people's time, it's because whenever anybody has a problem with what you say you never defend yourself but instead make some new comment on another subject entirely that also has a problem that you also will not talk about. So the impression I have is that you post the first thing that pops into your head and when somebody finds a flaw in it you ignore it and post something new that just popped into your head. If you're a serious thinker you've got to get into the trenches and fight for your ideas, if they're coherent and non-contradictory you will find that surprisingly easy to do. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Leibniz, now Leibniz was a man...
A way out west there was a fella, fella I want to tell you about, fella by the name of Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibniz. At least, that was the handle his lovin' parents gave him, but he never had much use for it himself. This Leibniz, he called himself das Dude. Now, Dude, that's a name no one would self-apply where I come from. But then, there was a lot about das Dude that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And a lot about what he thought, likewise. But then again, maybe that's why I found his work *s'durned innarestin'.* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Whui I keep posting about Leibniz
Roger, Just because you perceive that people are 'wasting their time' by providing their own unique points of view on questions dear to their heart (and not, by the way, on rehashing simplistic strawmen positions of philosophers that lived during the Age of Enlightenment) does not give you licence to therefore go ahead and 'waste their time.' See, it's sloppy thinking like this that makes you unwelcome on this list, not the profundity of anything you say. What you have done is shown that you've mastered a grade school syllogism: I am a subject. These things in front of me are my objects. Where is my subject? It can't be an object! Conclusion: The world is at heart dualistic! And our subject is radically different than our objects! So we need some 'non-physical principle' to explain this mysterious subject (etc.) Therefore God...(etc) I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with the writing in the Western tradition of philosophy, or science (it was invented after Leibniz died), or if you just got bogged down in the 1700s with Leibniz et al., but this stuff is kind of old potatoes these days. What is far more fruitful (and fascinating, in my opinion) is how the brain arrives at a notion of subjectivity in the first place and how the brain works-- knowledge inferred from things like brain lesion studies and studies into perceptual self-deception. When Craig talks about multisense realism, that is an original theory he has formulated to try to unify the two realms of external, perceived objects (sensates) and the subjective feeling of what it is to be alive (sensation). On one level, sure, he's wasting time, just like all philosophically enjoyable work is a waste of time. As Bertrand Russell said: If you enjoyed the time you were wasting, then you weren't wasting it after all. But on another level, he is trying to do something original, to think something through deeply. He uses other thinkers as tools in a toolkit. And while lots of people don't agree with him, they enjoy his efforts, because he takes the time to work through challenging concepts. When Bruno talks about the UDA, he is also trying to do something similar. He is trying to unify the subjective and objective components of reality at the deeper level of arithmetic. He has an argument. He has something new to say. You are not an original thinker, Roger! You have become enamored by a stupid artifact of language having to do with subjects and objects, and something that has been far more poetically described by Zen masters than you could ever hope to do, and you hit us over the head with it like a dead fish. You have not stumbled upon some Lovecraftian truth about being by reading Leibniz. Your readings of Leibniz do not do him justice. Leibniz was a penetrating and original thinker who arrived at the idea of monads because it was forced on him by circumstances of knowledge AT THAT TIME. God was virtually an axiom due to the overwhelming power of the church, minds and brains were thought distinct because neurology hadn't been invented, and science was struggling to break free from its mold in the form of natural philosophy and Aristotelian thinking. Leibniz's thoughts were a reflection of the state of knowledge that existed at his time. For you to go own using your own watered down version of Leibniz as some kind of epistemological panacea is a waste of time in a totally different sense. In the realm of new ideas about the question of mind and consciousness, it contributes nothing. As Leibniz scholarship, it is atrocious and betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of the role of history in constructing ideas. Finally, your apology says nothing about your constant political bear baiting in a forum that has no use for it. It's not even that you talk about Leibniz so much that makes you a crackpot. It's that you have so little to say of any real value. Even here, though, you might get some sympathy, if it weren't for the fact that you have betrayed your bigotry and intolerance countless times on this list. You strike me as a particularly odious fellow, one whose sole joy in life is ruining things for everyone else. There are plenty of places on the world wide web for people like you. Try 4chan, for a start. But here... TROLL!!! BE GONE!!! On Saturday, August 3, 2013 8:44:04 AM UTC-4, Roger Clough wrote: > > Hi tintner michael and Albert Cororna, > > I am accused of wasting peoples' time by constantly posting > here and elsewhere on the subject of Leibniz. > > I do that because people are already wasting their time > by posting totally impossible views on what mind is or what consciousness > is, > supposedly the chief topics on these sites. > > Why ? The current model of the mind or brain > has no subject, only a description of a subject such as "subject". > which is not subjective but objective because it can be located in > spacetime > and described in word
Whui I keep posting about Leibniz
Hi tintner michael and Albert Cororna, I am accused of wasting peoples' time by constantly posting here and elsewhere on the subject of Leibniz. I do that because people are already wasting their time by posting totally impossible views on what mind is or what consciousness is, supposedly the chief topics on these sites. Why ? The current model of the mind or brain has no subject, only a description of a subject such as "subject". which is not subjective but objective because it can be located in spacetime and described in words. You need a living, nonphysical, subjective subject. In fact life also needs a living subject. The same as is reading this paragraph. Why ? Consciousness is bipolar, consisting of a nonphysical-subject/physical-object pair, a true living subject looking at a spactime physical object. Only Kant and Leibniz take this criticism seriously, and of them, only Leibniz does it specifically. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough - Receiving the following content - From: tintner michael Receiver: MindBrain Time: 2013-08-02, 07:17:50 Subject: [Mind and Brain] Re: Why life is impossible to understand in thematerialistic model of e >I suspect this is a matter of perspective. > >You're assuming that the current materialistic model is the only possible >such model, rather than merely an "early evolution" model of materialism. > >Science is still looking at the world as materialistic pieces/parts. It >does not yet have a true holistic, integrated materialistic model of the >world, which understands how the parts fit together to form wholes. It >doesn't understand "self" - how the living machine that is a human being >can continuously configure and reconfigure its body as very >different wholes - how a Peter Sellers can assume a myriad >roles/personalities/bodies. It doesn't understand the mechanics of >evolution - how bodies can be "reconfigured"/transformed into radically >different forms other bodies. > >This is not surprising. So far we have only created machines that are >"production lines" of parts - basically Rube Goldberg lines of parts moving >each other like lines of dominoes. We haven't created - have barely >conceived of - machines that are truly integrated wholes like living >creatures. > >When we start acquiring holistic materialistic models, I suspect your >problems/objections will disappear. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: The stupid legacy of another crackpot, Roger Clough
A link to some video is all you got? Small potatoes in terms of evidence my dear fellow. From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 12:56 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: The stupid legacy of another crackpot, Roger Clough Just look at the video. Search for yourself and think. I have no interest neither is worth the effort to convince peopelle that overreact in such a way El 03/08/2013 00:42, "Chris de Morsella" escribió: When challenged to produce some actual body of evidence to back up your wholesale character assassination of Rachel Carlson (you claimed she just made up her research on DDT) - this is all you can do? Surely there must be hundreds of cited papers and reams of data available for you to cite to back your words up. You certainly found the time to spread the nasty slanderous accusation that YOU MADE; interesting how you cannot seem to find the time to dig up any actual facts, data or evidence to back it up with. By choosing to this behavior, intellectually, you color yourself a clown. I will add nothing more to this off topic From: Alberto G. Corona To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: The stupid legacy of another crackpot, Roger Clough The video that I linked is a good debunk of al the Carson paranoia. By a known scientist, not an enemy of humanity or people´s enemy like me, well paid by the forces of Evil. I will add nothing more to this off topic 2013/8/2 Chris de Morsella So "progressives" are now lumped together with Mao... in your brain so glad I do not have to live inside that place you call home. You are also wrong about why DDT spraying is no longer being used to control the Malaria mosquito (and other tropical disease spreading mosquito species). As has been amply pointed out, the driving factor in these decisions to stop using DDT, in cases where this has occurred, across both Asia, Africa and elsewhere, has, in fact, been the rapid rise of resistance to DDT in the targeted mosquito species. Perhaps rightwing nut jobs cannot seem to comprehend this rise in resistance because they -- emphatically -- do not believe in evolution and so find it difficult to understand how over the span of many generations, being slathered with a specific poisons a species will evolve a resistance. On Friday, August 2, 2013 12:47:27 PM UTC-4, spudb...@aol.com wrote: On DDT, because it hasn't been used in Africa to supress the Anopholes misquito, millions have died. and yeah, Craig, it was to assuage Progressive's sensibilities, so we won't have a "Silent Spring." It reminds me of Mao's Great Leap Forward from 1958-62 which caused a famine in China costing 36 million lives. Courtesy, the progressive policies of Mao. If you're going to own environmental safety, then you're going to own the failure of planning conducted by progressive orgs world-wide. This isn't a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact. So much for the scientific socialism that progressives have willingly inherited. Mitch -Original Message- From: Craig Weinberg To: everything-list mailto:everyth...@googlegroups.%20com> > Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:29 pm Subject: Re: The stupid legacy of another crackpot, Roger Clough No, it wuz the Libruls and their evil propaganda against delicious DDT. On Friday, August 2, 2013 1:35:31 AM UTC-4, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Because of Roger Clough, a less than mediocre Lutheran apologist who considers himself an astute interpreter of Leibniz, a formerly bright corner of the internet, the Everything List, has gone mostly dark due to the intellectual torpor and carelessness that seems to surround everything Clough says like the clouds of pestilence that surround the four horses of the apocalypse. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Roger is a rather lonely man who feels empty inside and yet also feels an irrational compulsion to flee this emptiness by trying hard to wrap it up in pseudo-profound mumbo jumbo and foist it on poor, unsuspecting readers of reading lists. RIP Everything List -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@ googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups. com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com
Re: The stupid legacy of another crackpot, Roger Clough
Just look at the video. Search for yourself and think. I have no interest neither is worth the effort to convince peopelle that overreact in such a way El 03/08/2013 00:42, "Chris de Morsella" escribió: > When challenged to produce some actual body of evidence to back up your > wholesale character assassination of Rachel Carlson (you claimed she just > made up her research on DDT) - this is all you can do? Surely there must > be hundreds of cited papers and reams of data available for you to cite to > back your words up. > > You certainly found the time to spread the nasty slanderous accusation > that YOU MADE; interesting how you cannot seem to find the time to dig up > any actual facts, data or evidence to back it up with. By choosing to this > behavior, intellectually, you color yourself a clown. > > I will add nothing more to this off topic > > >*From:* Alberto G. Corona > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 2, 2013 3:15 PM > *Subject:* Re: The stupid legacy of another crackpot, Roger Clough > > The video that I linked is a good debunk of al the Carson paranoia. By a > known scientist, not an enemy of humanity or people´s enemy like me, well > paid by the forces of Evil. > > I will add nothing more to this off topic > > > 2013/8/2 Chris de Morsella > > So "progressives" are now lumped together with Mao... in your brain so > glad I do not have to live inside that place you call home. > > You are also wrong about why DDT spraying is no longer being used to > control the Malaria mosquito (and other tropical disease spreading mosquito > species). As has been amply pointed out, the driving factor in these > decisions to stop using DDT, in cases where this has occurred, across both > Asia, Africa and elsewhere, has, in fact, been the rapid rise of resistance > to DDT in the targeted mosquito species. Perhaps rightwing nut jobs cannot > seem to comprehend this rise in resistance because they -- emphatically -- > do not believe in evolution and so find it difficult to understand how over > the span of many generations, being slathered with a specific poisons a > species will evolve a resistance. > > > On Friday, August 2, 2013 12:47:27 PM UTC-4, spudb...@aol.com wrote: > > On DDT, because it hasn't been used in Africa to supress the Anopholes > misquito, millions have died. and yeah, Craig, it was to assuage > Progressive's sensibilities, so we won't have a "Silent Spring." It reminds > me of Mao's Great Leap Forward from 1958-62 which caused a famine in China > costing 36 million lives. Courtesy, the progressive policies of Mao. If > you're going to own environmental safety, then you're going to own the > failure of planning conducted by progressive orgs world-wide. This isn't a > matter of opinion, its a matter of fact. So much for the scientific > socialism that progressives have willingly inherited. > > Mitch > > > -Original Message- > From: Craig Weinberg > To: everything-list > Sent: Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:29 pm > Subject: Re: The stupid legacy of another crackpot, Roger Clough > > No, it wuz the Libruls and their evil propaganda against delicious DDT. > > On Friday, August 2, 2013 1:35:31 AM UTC-4, freqflyer07281972 wrote: > > Because of Roger Clough, a less than mediocre Lutheran apologist who > considers himself an astute interpreter of Leibniz, a formerly bright > corner of the internet, the Everything List, has gone mostly dark due to > the intellectual torpor and carelessness that seems to surround everything > Clough says like the clouds of pestilence that surround the four horses of > the apocalypse. > > I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Roger is a rather lonely man who > feels empty inside and yet also feels an irrational compulsion to flee this > emptiness by trying hard to wrap it up in pseudo-profound mumbo jumbo and > foist it on poor, unsuspecting readers of reading lists. > > RIP Everything List > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-li...@ googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups. com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to > mailto:everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this g
