Theory of Nothing.
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 01:08:40AM +, chris peck wrote: > Hi Prof. Standish > > I read your paper 'Evolution in the Multiverse' and the related discussion in > your book. > > I'm not sure I really got it. My original interpretation was wrong, I think, > but went something like (by all means laugh at any howlers): > > there is the plenitude which is everything that could possibly be and it > 'exists' as a kind of cloud of quantum superpositions of states waiting to > decohere (collapse?). On measurement dechoerence traces out a history for > each viable universe with the AP setting the end point, the type of > intellegent organisms evolution must meet, with the SSA setting the most > likely starting point. In this way, for any universe, the AP and SSA kind of > govern the nature of life in the universe and combined can be seen as a kind > of selective principle. I then had this image of a bunch of universes > allowing life at varying degrees of sophistication peaking at the universe > with the ultimate brainy ET. OK... > > But then I thought hang on, decoherence is copenhagen whereas Prof. Standish > is MWI so something is wrong. Im definately in a muddle here... > decoherence is MWI, collapse is Copenhagen. -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
Hi Prof. Standish I read your paper 'Evolution in the Multiverse' and the related discussion in your book. I'm not sure I really got it. My original interpretation was wrong, I think, but went something like (by all means laugh at any howlers): there is the plenitude which is everything that could possibly be and it 'exists' as a kind of cloud of quantum superpositions of states waiting to decohere (collapse?). On measurement dechoerence traces out a history for each viable universe with the AP setting the end point, the type of intellegent organisms evolution must meet, with the SSA setting the most likely starting point. In this way, for any universe, the AP and SSA kind of govern the nature of life in the universe and combined can be seen as a kind of selective principle. I then had this image of a bunch of universes allowing life at varying degrees of sophistication peaking at the universe with the ultimate brainy ET. But then I thought hang on, decoherence is copenhagen whereas Prof. Standish is MWI so something is wrong. Im definately in a muddle here... Any pointers would be welcome. All the best. Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 17:58:49 -0700 From: cdemorse...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Brent ~ I follow the logic and am not arguing with it. I was wondering if there is any evidence baked into the DNA so to speak; in other words are there any areas of coding DNA that are known to be (or perhaps suspected of being) linked to and involved with such behavioral traits as herding instinct etc. that have been shown to have evolved in dogs (or more accurately been bred into dogs by human directed breeding for desired traits). I would not be surprised at all to find that there were, and feel pretty certain that a delta mapping of wolf DNA and say a Sheep Collies DNA will show changes in the key sets of genes that would be implicated in these behaviors... that is if we know what they are. Mapping behaviors to genes gets tricky because things as complex as a behavior, such as the instinct to herd sheep, probably draws upon multiple DNA coding sequences located in possibly different genes even. I don't think geneticists really have nailed down how instincts are wired into our genetic heredity -- we have statistical correlations and such, but - perhaps it is my own ignorance, but no clear story as to how these genetically encoded behavior genes actually work -- end to end. While, for example some Newspaper headline may boldly state that scientists have found the "gene" for aggression say, a deeper read will reveal that what was found was some DNA that may influence whether or not an individual becomes aggressive, for example, but that whether they actually do or not also depends on a lot of other co-factors, making it hard to determine what the trigger chain of events and changes actually is in reality. Very often, it turns out there is an environmental component in how behavioral traits arise in an individual as well. The interplay between hereditary information and the many dynamic processes at work in the organism at each phase: from the transcription phase that ultimately results in mRNA strands becoming used as a template in the ribosome to produce amino acid chains is still too poorly understood -- IMO -- for assertive statements. We hypothesize the genetic component in many behaviors; have found regions of DNA that are implicated in controlling behavior, but the science is still underdeveloped, the genetic maps we have at our disposal far too course and incomplete and our understanding of the many dynamic processes at work still incomplete. But -- [laughing] -- maybe I just need to catch up... it is such a rapidly moving field. -Chris From: meekerdb To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong On 8/12/2013 9:41 AM, Chris de Morsella wrote: What co-evolutionary traits have been shown to have occurred in dogs and cattle because of their association with humans (so which are therefore part of the equation)? Dogs are just wolves that, thru (un)natural selection have evolved to bond with humans as with a pack. Cattle similarly evolved to be docile and tolerant of humans. For example with sheep – is sheep dog behavior evolved? Or are they expressing genetic potential that was already innate in their species? That would also be an interesting example, if it can be shown that an evolved set of behaviors (e.g. instincts) developed in those dog species that were bred for working with cattle or sheep that is absent in other dog species that there are epigenetic and/or DNA enco
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
Brent ~ I follow the logic and am not arguing with it. I was wondering if there is any evidence baked into the DNA so to speak; in other words are there any areas of coding DNA that are known to be (or perhaps suspected of being) linked to and involved with such behavioral traits as herding instinct etc. that have been shown to have evolved in dogs (or more accurately been bred into dogs by human directed breeding for desired traits). I would not be surprised at all to find that there were, and feel pretty certain that a delta mapping of wolf DNA and say a Sheep Collies DNA will show changes in the key sets of genes that would be implicated in these behaviors... that is if we know what they are. Mapping behaviors to genes gets tricky because things as complex as a behavior, such as the instinct to herd sheep, probably draws upon multiple DNA coding sequences located in possibly different genes even. I don't think geneticists really have nailed down how instincts are wired into our genetic heredity -- we have statistical correlations and such, but - perhaps it is my own ignorance, but no clear story as to how these genetically encoded behavior genes actually work -- end to end. While, for example some Newspaper headline may boldly state that scientists have found the "gene" for aggression say, a deeper read will reveal that what was found was some DNA that may influence whether or not an individual becomes aggressive, for example, but that whether they actually do or not also depends on a lot of other co-factors, making it hard to determine what the trigger chain of events and changes actually is in reality. Very often, it turns out there is an environmental component in how behavioral traits arise in an individual as well. The interplay between hereditary information and the many dynamic processes at work in the organism at each phase: from the transcription phase that ultimately results in mRNA strands becoming used as a template in the ribosome to produce amino acid chains is still too poorly understood -- IMO -- for assertive statements. We hypothesize the genetic component in many behaviors; have found regions of DNA that are implicated in controlling behavior, but the science is still underdeveloped, the genetic maps we have at our disposal far too course and incomplete and our understanding of the many dynamic processes at work still incomplete. But -- [laughing] -- maybe I just need to catch up... it is such a rapidly moving field. -Chris From: meekerdb To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong On 8/12/2013 9:41 AM, Chris de Morsella wrote: What co-evolutionary traits have been shown to have occurred in dogs and cattle because of their association with humans (so which are therefore part of the equation)? Dogs are just wolves that, thru (un)natural selection have evolved to bond with humans as with a pack. Cattle similarly evolved to be docile and tolerant of humans. >For example with sheep – is sheep dog behavior evolved? Or are they expressing >genetic potential that was already innate in their species? That would also be >an interesting example, if it can be shown that an evolved set of behaviors >(e.g. instincts) developed in those dog species that were bred for working >with cattle or sheep that is absent in other dog species that there are >epigenetic and/or DNA encoding differences that are related to and underpin >the behaviors and traits being observed. Wolves herd sheep too, so there was innate potential. But dogs can also learn a lot of words. I don't know whether wolves can or not. That might be an evolved capability. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:40:13PM -0400, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 Russell Standish wrote: > > > All evolutionary processes have variation, selection and heredity. > > > Yes. > > > What is missing from cultural evolution is an equivalent of the central > > dogma. > > > > How on earth do you figure that? Ideas can be passed from one person to > another. Sometimes a person modifies the idea before passing it on to > somebody else. Some ideas are good at infecting minds and thus get selected > to play a major role in culture, and other ideas are not so good at > infecting minds and thus become extinct after just a few transmissions and > play no role in future culture. > > > Not all evolutionary processes have the central dogma - and even in > > biological evolution, epigenetic changes > > violate the central dogma. > > > > How on earth do you figure that? There is certainly variation in epigenetic > changes. If epigenetic changes can not be inherited then they are rather > dull and play no part in evolution. If they can be inherited then in some > animals those changes will work better than others in getting the animals > genes and methylation levels and whatever other heredity factors there are > into the next generation. And Darwin said that's all you need to get > Evolution going; he knew nothing about DNA much less epigenetic changes but > that doesn't matter because Darwin's logic still holds true whatever the > heredity factors are. > You don't appear to have looked up what the central dogma is: "The central dogma of molecular biology deals with the detailed residue-by-residue transfer of sequential information. It states that such information cannot be transferred back from protein to either protein or nucleic acid." (Crick, 1970, Nature 227 (5258): 561–3). What it means is that lessons learnt by the body (ie protein) cannot be transferred back to the genome (ie DNA). It is the antithesis to Lamarkianism. Epigenetic changes involve changes of the genome by the body and its environment, so is contrary to the central dogma. How significant epigenesis is to evolution is another matter, of course. In cultural evolution, you said it yourself - individual minds can quite easily change memes prior to passing them on. Obviously, there is no equivalent central dogma in cultural evolution. Cheers -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
Hi Chris d m The papers Ive been reading regard horizontal genetic transfer as a mechanism by which the machinery of translation, transcription and replication evolved. As cellular organisms became more complex this mechanism gives way to vertical genetic transfer which then dominates evolution. They call this hypothetical period the Darwinain Transition. At this point selection at a genetic level takes over. I cant vouch for the ideas plausibility. I think that selection at a genetic level is enough to account for altruism. Hamilton's law predicts that behaviors will be undertaken so long as the benefit multiplied by the degree of genetic relatedness outweighs the cost. This equation gets healthy support from the study of bees, wasps and ants etc where the unusual 2/3 relatedness between female siblings gives rise to unisially co-operative behaviour and between sisters. All the best --- Original Message --- From: "meekerdb" Sent: 13 August 2013 4:56 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong On 8/12/2013 9:41 AM, Chris de Morsella wrote: > > What co-evolutionary traits have been shown to have occurred in dogs and > cattle because > of their association with humans (so which are therefore part of the > equation)? > Dogs are just wolves that, thru (un)natural selection have evolved to bond with humans as with a pack. Cattle similarly evolved to be docile and tolerant of humans. > For example with sheep -- is sheep dog behavior evolved? Or are they > expressing genetic > potential that was already innate in their species? That would also be an > interesting > example, if it can be shown that an evolved set of behaviors (e.g. instincts) > developed > in those dog species that were bred for working with cattle or sheep that is > absent in > other dog species that there are epigenetic and/or DNA encoding differences > that are > related to and underpin the behaviors and traits being observed. > Wolves herd sheep too, so there was innate potential. But dogs can also learn a lot of words. I don't know whether wolves can or not. That might be an evolved capability. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Should You Renounce Your U.S. Citizenship?
On 8/12/2013 12:05 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: If you renounce your citizenship for tax purposes, you have to leave the USA to realize the benefits You can avoid federal income tax just by earning the income outside the U.S. and staying outsude for at least a year. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Should You Renounce Your U.S. Citizenship?
If you renounce your citizenship for tax purposes, you have to leave the USA to realize the benefits On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Should You Renounce Your U.S. Citizenship? > > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html > > To my knowledge, the Bill of Rights applies to noncitizens in USA as well > as citizens. > > > Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] > See my Leibniz site at > http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Number of Americans Renouncing Citizenship Surges
Good riddance On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Number of Americans Renouncing Citizenship Surges Expert Says 2013 on > Pace to See Highest Number of U.S. Expatriations Ever > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323977304579002780562003814.html > > Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] > See my Leibniz site at > http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: If I hate income taxes should I guive up my american citizenshuip ?
Please do On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > If I hate income taxes, should I give up my american citizenshuip ? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_6EqMESEVI > > > Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] > See my Leibniz site at > http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
On 8/12/2013 9:41 AM, Chris de Morsella wrote: What co-evolutionary traits have been shown to have occurred in dogs and cattle because of their association with humans (so which are therefore part of the equation)? Dogs are just wolves that, thru (un)natural selection have evolved to bond with humans as with a pack. Cattle similarly evolved to be docile and tolerant of humans. For example with sheep -- is sheep dog behavior evolved? Or are they expressing genetic potential that was already innate in their species? That would also be an interesting example, if it can be shown that an evolved set of behaviors (e.g. instincts) developed in those dog species that were bred for working with cattle or sheep that is absent in other dog species that there are epigenetic and/or DNA encoding differences that are related to and underpin the behaviors and traits being observed. Wolves herd sheep too, so there was innate potential. But dogs can also learn a lot of words. I don't know whether wolves can or not. That might be an evolved capability. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
If I hate income taxes should I guive up my american citizenshuip ?
If I hate income taxes, should I give up my american citizenshuip ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_6EqMESEVI Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Number of Americans Renouncing Citizenship Surges
Number of Americans Renouncing Citizenship Surges Expert Says 2013 on Pace to See Highest Number of U.S. Expatriations Ever http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323977304579002780562003814.html Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Should You Renounce Your U.S. Citizenship?
Should You Renounce Your U.S. Citizenship? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html To my knowledge, the Bill of Rights applies to noncitizens in USA as well as citizens. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
On Friday, August 9, 2013 10:37:29 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 Russell Standish > > wrote: > > > variants like Larmarkianism may well be possible. >> > > There are a number of problems with Lamarckism, such as it never having > been observed to occur in the lab or in the wild, > There's this: http://discovermagazine.com/2013/may/13-grandmas-experiences-leave-epigenetic-mark-on-your-genes#.UcDO89iOGhr Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Americans renouncing citizenship in record numbers, seek to avoid tax
Americans renouncing citizenship in record numbers, seek to avoid tax Published August 12, 2013 The Wall Street Journal The U.S.'s crackdown on global tax evaders is leading to a record number of people renouncing their citizenship, and its effects are being felt keenly in Asia -- now the world's wealthiest region by household assets. A growing number of wealthy Americans in Asia -- and others with green cards -- are exploring whether to renounce their U.S. citizenship or give up their green cards to avoid onerous tax obligations. Globally, more U.S. citizens have renounced their citizenship in the first and second quarters than all of 2012 combined, and 2013 is already on track to becoming a record year for renunciations. A total of 1,130 names appeared on the latest list of renunciations from the Internal Revenue Service, according to Andrew Mitchel, a tax lawyer who tracks the data. That is far above the previous high of 679, set in the first quarter, and more than were reported in all of 2012. While those numbers are still a fraction of the estimated six million Americans living abroad, lawyers say the main trigger for cutting ties with U.S. recently is the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or Fatca, which requires foreign institutions to disclose the overseas assets of U.S. green-card holders and citizens to the U.S. government. The U.S. Congress estimates that tax evasion by U.S. citizens results in losses of up to $100 billion a year. The main objective of Fatca is to identify people who may be evading taxes through offshore investment vehicles. "When I became an immigration lawyer 30 years ago, people really were excited about going to America. Now, more than half of my clients are people thinking of other alternatives rather than people seeking to immigrate to America," said Eugene Chow, the principal of Chow King & Associates. Click for more from The Wall Street Journal. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 Chris de Morsella wrote: > I have heard this survival of the community dynamics being used to > suggest why for example we still have behaviors such as altruism still > quite common amongst members of our species > It's not just our species that displays altruistic behavior, a ground squirrel will call a warning alarm to the group if it spots a predator even though by calling attention to itself and behaving heroically it most certainly increases the likelihood that it will get eaten by the predator. > > when from a simple game theory perspective altruistic behavior is a > handicap > It's not a handicap it you look at it from the gene's point of view in a closely related population. If I have the altruistic gene and I save the life of 2 other individuals who also have that very same gene then even if my heroism costs me my life the altruism gene will tend to spread through the population. Evolutionary biologists call this "The Green Beard Effect"; a gene that causes you to have a green beard and behave altruistically toward others who also have a green beard can potentially spread threw a population (and if the group is very closely related then the same thing can happen even without the green beard). And yes, a mutated gene that gives you the green beard but no altruistic desires might spread even faster. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
What co-evolutionary traits have been shown to have occurred in dogs and cattle because of their association with humans (so which are therefore part of the equation)? For example with sheep - is sheep dog behavior evolved? Or are they expressing genetic potential that was already innate in their species? That would also be an interesting example, if it can be shown that an evolved set of behaviors (e.g. instincts) developed in those dog species that were bred for working with cattle or sheep that is absent in other dog species that there are epigenetic and/or DNA encoding differences that are related to and underpin the behaviors and traits being observed. From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:59 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong On 8/11/2013 7:55 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: I would not be surprised to find that there is evidence of cross species conglomerates of organisms that have evolved to survive together, in other words that the Darwinian selection mechanism could potentially be extended to take into account both group survival dynamics within one species and in the larger meta-groups of two or more species that get through life together by cooperating across species lines. Yeah, no need to be surprised by dogs and cattle. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 Russell Standish wrote: > All evolutionary processes have variation, selection and heredity. Yes. > What is missing from cultural evolution is an equivalent of the central > dogma. > How on earth do you figure that? Ideas can be passed from one person to another. Sometimes a person modifies the idea before passing it on to somebody else. Some ideas are good at infecting minds and thus get selected to play a major role in culture, and other ideas are not so good at infecting minds and thus become extinct after just a few transmissions and play no role in future culture. > Not all evolutionary processes have the central dogma - and even in > biological evolution, epigenetic changes > violate the central dogma. > How on earth do you figure that? There is certainly variation in epigenetic changes. If epigenetic changes can not be inherited then they are rather dull and play no part in evolution. If they can be inherited then in some animals those changes will work better than others in getting the animals genes and methylation levels and whatever other heredity factors there are into the next generation. And Darwin said that's all you need to get Evolution going; he knew nothing about DNA much less epigenetic changes but that doesn't matter because Darwin's logic still holds true whatever the heredity factors are. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
Good to know. Thanks On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > ISTM, he said he was moving and won't be able to post for some times... So > I guess that's just it. > > Quentin > > > 2013/8/12 Richard Ruquist > >> I am on all the lists that to my knowledge he ever posted on and he has >> not posted for some time now. >> Richard >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:28 AM, chris peck wrote: >> >>> I'm sure he still posts in some parallel feathers of the dove's tail. :) >>> >>> -- >>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:00:14 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong >>> From: yann...@gmail.com >>> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com >>> >>> Is this the topic that stopped Bruno from posting in the everything >>> list? >>> Have we lost Bruno for good? >>> Richard >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:59 AM, meekerdb wrote: >>> >>> On 8/11/2013 7:55 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: >>> >>> I would not be surprised to find that there is evidence of cross species >>> conglomerates of organisms that have evolved to survive together, in other >>> words that the Darwinian selection mechanism could potentially be extended >>> to take into account both group survival dynamics within one species and in >>> the larger meta-groups of two or more species that get through life >>> together by cooperating across species lines. >>> >>> >>> Yeah, no need to be surprised by dogs and cattle. >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
===> Found that: 2013/7/26 Bruno Marchal ...snip Bruno PS I will have to put my computer in a box, as I am moving, so I will be disconnected for awhile. Thanks for being patient for a possible answer to your next possible comment. 2013/8/12 Quentin Anciaux > ISTM, he said he was moving and won't be able to post for some times... So > I guess that's just it. > > Quentin > > > 2013/8/12 Richard Ruquist > >> I am on all the lists that to my knowledge he ever posted on and he has >> not posted for some time now. >> Richard >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:28 AM, chris peck wrote: >> >>> I'm sure he still posts in some parallel feathers of the dove's tail. :) >>> >>> -- >>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:00:14 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong >>> From: yann...@gmail.com >>> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com >>> >>> Is this the topic that stopped Bruno from posting in the everything >>> list? >>> Have we lost Bruno for good? >>> Richard >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:59 AM, meekerdb wrote: >>> >>> On 8/11/2013 7:55 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: >>> >>> I would not be surprised to find that there is evidence of cross species >>> conglomerates of organisms that have evolved to survive together, in other >>> words that the Darwinian selection mechanism could potentially be extended >>> to take into account both group survival dynamics within one species and in >>> the larger meta-groups of two or more species that get through life >>> together by cooperating across species lines. >>> >>> >>> Yeah, no need to be surprised by dogs and cattle. >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
ISTM, he said he was moving and won't be able to post for some times... So I guess that's just it. Quentin 2013/8/12 Richard Ruquist > I am on all the lists that to my knowledge he ever posted on and he has > not posted for some time now. > Richard > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:28 AM, chris peck wrote: > >> I'm sure he still posts in some parallel feathers of the dove's tail. :) >> >> -- >> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:00:14 -0400 >> Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong >> From: yann...@gmail.com >> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com >> >> Is this the topic that stopped Bruno from posting in the everything list? >> Have we lost Bruno for good? >> Richard >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:59 AM, meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 8/11/2013 7:55 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: >> >> I would not be surprised to find that there is evidence of cross species >> conglomerates of organisms that have evolved to survive together, in other >> words that the Darwinian selection mechanism could potentially be extended >> to take into account both group survival dynamics within one species and in >> the larger meta-groups of two or more species that get through life >> together by cooperating across species lines. >> >> >> Yeah, no need to be surprised by dogs and cattle. >> >> Brent >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
I am on all the lists that to my knowledge he ever posted on and he has not posted for some time now. Richard On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:28 AM, chris peck wrote: > I'm sure he still posts in some parallel feathers of the dove's tail. :) > > -- > Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:00:14 -0400 > Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong > From: yann...@gmail.com > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com > > Is this the topic that stopped Bruno from posting in the everything list? > Have we lost Bruno for good? > Richard > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:59 AM, meekerdb wrote: > > On 8/11/2013 7:55 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: > > I would not be surprised to find that there is evidence of cross species > conglomerates of organisms that have evolved to survive together, in other > words that the Darwinian selection mechanism could potentially be extended > to take into account both group survival dynamics within one species and in > the larger meta-groups of two or more species that get through life > together by cooperating across species lines. > > > Yeah, no need to be surprised by dogs and cattle. > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
I'm sure he still posts in some parallel feathers of the dove's tail. :) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:00:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong From: yann...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Is this the topic that stopped Bruno from posting in the everything list? Have we lost Bruno for good?Richard On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:59 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 8/11/2013 7:55 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: I would not be surprised to find that there is evidence of cross species conglomerates of organisms that have evolved to survive together, in other words that the Darwinian selection mechanism could potentially be extended to take into account both group survival dynamics within one species and in the larger meta-groups of two or more species that get through life together by cooperating across species lines. Yeah, no need to be surprised by dogs and cattle. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
Is this the topic that stopped Bruno from posting in the everything list? Have we lost Bruno for good? Richard On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:59 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 8/11/2013 7:55 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: > > I would not be surprised to find that there is evidence of cross species > conglomerates of organisms that have evolved to survive together, in other > words that the Darwinian selection mechanism could potentially be extended > to take into account both group survival dynamics within one species and in > the larger meta-groups of two or more species that get through life > together by cooperating across species lines. > > > Yeah, no need to be surprised by dogs and cattle. > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
