Re: Consciousness research

2021-11-07 Thread Alina Gutoreva 
Any serious text would benefit from silly images 
<https://giphy.com/channel/Psychology_of_Information>.

Grateful, 
Ally

P.S. Feminism is good for you.



> On 7 Nov 2021, at 02:42, spudboy100 via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> No, no, JC, you are. We are just grateful to be part of your solipsism. 
> assuming that is that I'm not the only conscious being in the universe, and I 
> rather doubt that I am.  
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
> Sent: Sat, Nov 6, 2021 7:19 am
> Subject: Re: Consciousness research
> 
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 6:09 AM Lawrence Crowell 
> mailto:goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> > I doubt quantum gravitation and consciousness have much to do with each 
> > other.
> 
> I could not agree with you more! About the only thing quantum gravity and 
> consciousness have in common is that they're both somewhat mysterious. The 
> biggest difference between the two is that the human race has made enormous 
> progress in understanding gravity over the centuries but precisely zero 
> progress in understanding consciousness. My hunch for the reason for that is 
> that there is simply nothing to understand; it's just a brute fact that 
> consciousness is the way data feels when it is being processed intelligently. 
> That would explain why Darwinian Evolution (random mutation plus natural 
> selection) bothered to make something conscious in the first place, because 
> although evolution can't see consciousness it can see intelligent behavior. 
> That's why I'm conscious, and that's probably why you're conscious too; 
> assuming that is that I'm not the only conscious being in the universe, and I 
> rather doubt that I am.  
> 
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
> grx
> 
> 
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Re: Consciousness research

2021-11-06 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List 
No, no, JC, you are. We are just grateful to be part of your solipsism. 

assuming that is that I'm not the only conscious being in the universe, and I 
rather doubt that I am.  



-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Nov 6, 2021 7:19 am
Subject: Re: Consciousness research

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 6:09 AM Lawrence Crowell 
 wrote:


> I doubt quantum gravitation and consciousness have much to do with each other.

I could not agree with you more! About the only thing quantum gravity and 
consciousness have in common is that they're both somewhat mysterious. The 
biggest difference between the two is that the human race has made enormous 
progress in understanding gravity over the centuries but precisely zero 
progress in understanding consciousness. My hunch for the reason for that is 
that there is simply nothing to understand; it's just a brute fact that 
consciousness is the way data feels when it is being processed intelligently. 
That would explain why Darwinian Evolution (random mutation plus natural 
selection) bothered to make something conscious in the first place, because 
although evolution can't see consciousness it can see intelligent behavior. 
That's why I'm conscious, and that's probably why you're conscious too; 
assuming that is that I'm not the only conscious being in the universe, and I 
rather doubt that I am.   
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
grx



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Re: Consciousness research

2021-11-06 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List 
Professionally from a physicist, I expect nothing more. It's all good and ok by 
me and it's factual. Nothing indicates the squishy warm environment of mammal 
and yeah, bird brains to have anything to do with a primary force of gravity. 
Happily conceded and no no problems with the standard, normal, view. 
Eventually, maybe a very long time from now, new discoveries will be made by 
improved instruments that will confirm, challenge, or upend the current models 
of the universe, and perhaps even open up new insights. That day is not today. 
But there is always room for improvement, in people and systems.
One such improvement in our understanding I am believing is this work by the 
Author, and his colleagues which at some future point have impact. 
https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691179506/lectures-on-the-infrared-structure-of-gravity-and-gauge-theory

Call it a guess, and dismiss as desired, NP.

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Nov 4, 2021 6:09 am
Subject: Re: Consciousness research

I doubt quantum gravitation and consciousness have much to do with each other.
LC

On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 7:37:12 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

My thinking is literally we need 'better' equipment to properly answer either 
quantum gravity or consciousness. These are surely not civilizational 
priorities and so the progress is limited. If CERN or RIKEN, or Fermilab cannot 
delve into what a proton yields, then this is where we are. Neither have we 
really cranked up machinery to address consciousness. We're doing better on the 
neuroscience thing then we have in the past, because the machinery used until 
then very recently is way too simple. Encephalographs + white lab coats just 
ain't going to produce.   For cosmology, yeah, with better telescopes we detect 
more granular detail. Or what's an exo-planet for? 
A deeper question on how to get there is the possibility that machine 
intelligence could accelerate discovery and invention? This ought to be a 
meta-goal for our species. Medical science and pharmacology is a sure 
beneficiary of AI, and thus the human body becomes a beneficiary in this 
fashion. 


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2021 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: Consciousness research


Welcome back Philip. Long time since I heard from you. We really do not know 
for sure. Consciousness is something we experience subjectively and has some 
elusive nature with objectivity. 
LCOn Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 1:11:24 PM UTC-5 cloud...@gmail.com wrote:

“The growing field of AI requires hardware that can host adaptive memory 
properties beyond what is used in today’s computers,” he added. “We find that 
nickel oxide insulators, which historically have been restricted to academic 
pursuits, might be interesting candidates to be tested in future for 
brain-inspired computers and robotics.” 
Consciousness is beyond what understood to be conventionally computational. It 
that sense, it cannot be simulated, it can only be synthesized.


On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 2:50:08 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Opinion, does this development have any real impact on the subject of whether a 
machine can eventually be conscious. This is a paper from Rutgers and seems to 
be along the lines of the topic. 
https://www.newswise.com/articles/researchers-find-human-learning-can-be-duplicated-in-solid-matter

The method seemingly can be imitated.


-Original Message-
From: Bruno Marchal 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Wed, Sep 8, 2021 9:10 am
Subject: Re: Consciousness research

It is never to late, but I guess they remain in the Aristotelian framework, 
which makes them impossible to take into account the elementary consequences of 
Mechanism in metaphysics. If you can sum up their approaches or just tell me 
their basic hypotheses ... In my university, it too time, but eventually there 
is a course on consciousness, but only the "weak problem" is allowed to be 
researched, which is better than nothing.
Bruno

On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:27:03 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78UL1gYhXI

Four researchers on consciousness who take a operational and scientific 
approach and have a program to try to test theories of consciousness.

Brent




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Re: Consciousness research

2021-11-06 Thread John Clark 
On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 6:09 AM Lawrence Crowell <
goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I doubt quantum gravitation and consciousness have much to do with each
> other.


I could not agree with you more! About the only thing quantum gravity and
consciousness have in common is that they're both somewhat mysterious. The
biggest difference between the two is that the human race has made enormous
progress in understanding gravity over the centuries but precisely zero
progress in understanding consciousness. My hunch for the reason for that
is that there is simply nothing to understand; it's just a brute fact that
consciousness is the way data feels when it is being processed
intelligently. That would explain why Darwinian Evolution (random mutation
plus natural selection) bothered to make something conscious in the first
place, because although evolution can't see consciousness it can see
intelligent behavior. That's why I'm conscious, and that's probably why
you're conscious too; assuming that is that I'm not the only conscious
being in the universe, and I rather doubt that I am.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

grx


>

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Re: Consciousness research

2021-11-04 Thread Lawrence Crowell 
I doubt quantum gravitation and consciousness have much to do with each 
other.

LC

On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 7:37:12 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> My thinking is literally we need 'better' equipment to properly answer 
> either quantum gravity or consciousness. These are surely not 
> civilizational priorities and so the progress is limited. If CERN or RIKEN, 
> or Fermilab cannot delve into what a proton yields, then this is where we 
> are. Neither have we really cranked up machinery to address consciousness. 
> We're doing better on the neuroscience thing then we have in the past, 
> because the machinery used until then very recently is way too simple. 
> Encephalographs + white lab coats just ain't going to produce.   For 
> cosmology, yeah, with better telescopes we detect more granular detail. Or 
> what's an exo-planet for?  
>
> A deeper question on how to get there is the possibility that machine 
> intelligence could accelerate discovery and invention? This ought to be a 
> meta-goal for our species. Medical science and pharmacology is a sure 
> beneficiary of AI, and thus the human body becomes a beneficiary in this 
> fashion. 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2021 7:08 pm
> Subject: Re: Consciousness research
>
>
> Welcome back Philip. Long time since I heard from you. We really do not 
> know for sure. Consciousness is something we experience subjectively and 
> has some elusive nature with objectivity.  
>
> LC
> On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 1:11:24 PM UTC-5 cloud...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> “The growing field of AI requires hardware that can host adaptive memory 
> properties *beyond what is used in today’s computers*,” he added. “We 
> find that nickel oxide insulators, which historically have been restricted 
> to academic pursuits, might be interesting candidates to be tested in 
> future for brain-inspired computers and robotics.”  
>
> Consciousness is beyond what understood to be conventionally 
> computational. It that sense, it cannot be simulated, it can only be 
> synthesized.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 2:50:08 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com 
> wrote:
>
> Opinion, does this development have any real impact on the subject of 
> whether a machine can eventually be conscious. This is a paper from Rutgers 
> and seems to be along the lines of the topic.  
>
> https://www.newswise.com/articles/researchers-find-human-learning-can-be-duplicated-in-solid-matter
>
> The method seemingly can be imitated.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bruno Marchal 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Wed, Sep 8, 2021 9:10 am
> Subject: Re: Consciousness research
>
> It is never to late, but I guess they remain in the Aristotelian 
> framework, which makes them impossible to take into account the elementary 
> consequences of Mechanism in metaphysics. If you can sum up their 
> approaches or just tell me their basic hypotheses ... In my university, it 
> too time, but eventually there is a course on consciousness, but only the 
> "weak problem" is allowed to be researched, which is better than nothing. 
>
> Bruno
>
> On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:27:03 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78UL1gYhXI 
>
> Four researchers on consciousness who take a operational and scientific 
> approach and have a program to try to test theories of consciousness. 
>
> Brent 
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/194eef2c-8583-4946-a080-b438bcc1aae2n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/194eef2c-8583-4946-a080-b438bcc1aae2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>  
> .
>

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Re: Consciousness research

2021-11-03 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List 
My thinking is literally we need 'better' equipment to properly answer either 
quantum gravity or consciousness. These are surely not civilizational 
priorities and so the progress is limited. If CERN or RIKEN, or Fermilab cannot 
delve into what a proton yields, then this is where we are. Neither have we 
really cranked up machinery to address consciousness. We're doing better on the 
neuroscience thing then we have in the past, because the machinery used until 
then very recently is way too simple. Encephalographs + white lab coats just 
ain't going to produce.   For cosmology, yeah, with better telescopes we detect 
more granular detail. Or what's an exo-planet for? 
A deeper question on how to get there is the possibility that machine 
intelligence could accelerate discovery and invention? This ought to be a 
meta-goal for our species. Medical science and pharmacology is a sure 
beneficiary of AI, and thus the human body becomes a beneficiary in this 
fashion. 


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2021 7:08 pm
Subject: Re: Consciousness research


Welcome back Philip. Long time since I heard from you. We really do not know 
for sure. Consciousness is something we experience subjectively and has some 
elusive nature with objectivity. 
LCOn Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 1:11:24 PM UTC-5 cloud...@gmail.com wrote:

“The growing field of AI requires hardware that can host adaptive memory 
properties beyond what is used in today’s computers,” he added. “We find that 
nickel oxide insulators, which historically have been restricted to academic 
pursuits, might be interesting candidates to be tested in future for 
brain-inspired computers and robotics.” 
Consciousness is beyond what understood to be conventionally computational. It 
that sense, it cannot be simulated, it can only be synthesized.


On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 2:50:08 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Opinion, does this development have any real impact on the subject of whether a 
machine can eventually be conscious. This is a paper from Rutgers and seems to 
be along the lines of the topic. 
https://www.newswise.com/articles/researchers-find-human-learning-can-be-duplicated-in-solid-matter

The method seemingly can be imitated.


-Original Message-
From: Bruno Marchal 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Wed, Sep 8, 2021 9:10 am
Subject: Re: Consciousness research

It is never to late, but I guess they remain in the Aristotelian framework, 
which makes them impossible to take into account the elementary consequences of 
Mechanism in metaphysics. If you can sum up their approaches or just tell me 
their basic hypotheses ... In my university, it too time, but eventually there 
is a course on consciousness, but only the "weak problem" is allowed to be 
researched, which is better than nothing.
Bruno

On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:27:03 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78UL1gYhXI

Four researchers on consciousness who take a operational and scientific 
approach and have a program to try to test theories of consciousness.

Brent




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Re: Consciousness research

2021-11-03 Thread Lawrence Crowell 

Welcome back Philip. Long time since I heard from you. We really do not 
know for sure. Consciousness is something we experience subjectively and 
has some elusive nature with objectivity. 

LC
On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 1:11:24 PM UTC-5 cloud...@gmail.com wrote:

> “The growing field of AI requires hardware that can host adaptive memory 
> properties *beyond what is used in today’s computers*,” he added. “We 
> find that nickel oxide insulators, which historically have been restricted 
> to academic pursuits, might be interesting candidates to be tested in 
> future for brain-inspired computers and robotics.” 
>
> Consciousness is beyond what understood to be conventionally 
> computational. It that sense, it cannot be simulated, it can only be 
> synthesized.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 2:50:08 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Opinion, does this development have any real impact on the subject of 
>> whether a machine can eventually be conscious. This is a paper from Rutgers 
>> and seems to be along the lines of the topic.  
>>
>> https://www.newswise.com/articles/researchers-find-human-learning-can-be-duplicated-in-solid-matter
>>
>> The method seemingly can be imitated.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Bruno Marchal 
>> To: Everything List 
>> Sent: Wed, Sep 8, 2021 9:10 am
>> Subject: Re: Consciousness research
>>
>> It is never to late, but I guess they remain in the Aristotelian 
>> framework, which makes them impossible to take into account the elementary 
>> consequences of Mechanism in metaphysics. If you can sum up their 
>> approaches or just tell me their basic hypotheses ... In my university, it 
>> too time, but eventually there is a course on consciousness, but only the 
>> "weak problem" is allowed to be researched, which is better than nothing. 
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:27:03 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78UL1gYhXI 
>>
>> Four researchers on consciousness who take a operational and scientific 
>> approach and have a program to try to test theories of consciousness. 
>>
>> Brent 
>>
>>
>>

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Re: Consciousness research

2021-11-03 Thread Philip Thrift 
“The growing field of AI requires hardware that can host adaptive memory 
properties *beyond what is used in today’s computers*,” he added. “We find 
that nickel oxide insulators, which historically have been restricted to 
academic pursuits, might be interesting candidates to be tested in future 
for brain-inspired computers and robotics.” 

Consciousness is beyond what understood to be conventionally computational. 
It that sense, it cannot be simulated, it can only be synthesized.



On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 2:50:08 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Opinion, does this development have any real impact on the subject of 
> whether a machine can eventually be conscious. This is a paper from Rutgers 
> and seems to be along the lines of the topic.  
>
> https://www.newswise.com/articles/researchers-find-human-learning-can-be-duplicated-in-solid-matter
>
> The method seemingly can be imitated.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bruno Marchal 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Wed, Sep 8, 2021 9:10 am
> Subject: Re: Consciousness research
>
> It is never to late, but I guess they remain in the Aristotelian 
> framework, which makes them impossible to take into account the elementary 
> consequences of Mechanism in metaphysics. If you can sum up their 
> approaches or just tell me their basic hypotheses ... In my university, it 
> too time, but eventually there is a course on consciousness, but only the 
> "weak problem" is allowed to be researched, which is better than nothing. 
>
> Bruno
>
> On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:27:03 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78UL1gYhXI 
>
> Four researchers on consciousness who take a operational and scientific 
> approach and have a program to try to test theories of consciousness. 
>
> Brent 
>
>
>

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Re: Consciousness research

2021-09-23 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List 
Opinion, does this development have any real impact on the subject of whether a 
machine can eventually be conscious. This is a paper from Rutgers and seems to 
be along the lines of the topic. 
https://www.newswise.com/articles/researchers-find-human-learning-can-be-duplicated-in-solid-matter

The method seemingly can be imitated.


-Original Message-
From: Bruno Marchal 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Wed, Sep 8, 2021 9:10 am
Subject: Re: Consciousness research

It is never to late, but I guess they remain in the Aristotelian framework, 
which makes them impossible to take into account the elementary consequences of 
Mechanism in metaphysics. If you can sum up their approaches or just tell me 
their basic hypotheses ... In my university, it too time, but eventually there 
is a course on consciousness, but only the "weak problem" is allowed to be 
researched, which is better than nothing.
Bruno

On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:27:03 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78UL1gYhXI

Four researchers on consciousness who take a operational and scientific 
approach and have a program to try to test theories of consciousness.

Brent

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Re: Consciousness research

2021-09-08 Thread Bruno Marchal 
It is never to late, but I guess they remain in the Aristotelian framework, 
which makes them impossible to take into account the elementary 
consequences of Mechanism in metaphysics. If you can sum up their 
approaches or just tell me their basic hypotheses ... In my university, it 
too time, but eventually there is a course on consciousness, but only the 
"weak problem" is allowed to be researched, which is better than nothing.

Bruno

On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:27:03 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78UL1gYhXI
>
> Four researchers on consciousness who take a operational and scientific 
> approach and have a program to try to test theories of consciousness.
>
> Brent
>

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Consciousness research

2021-09-07 Thread 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78UL1gYhXI

Four researchers on consciousness who take a operational and scientific 
approach and have a program to try to test theories of consciousness.


Brent

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