[Evolution] Strange behaviour

[Brewster Gillett]

Just installed 2.28,1 and Ubuntu 9.10 - upgrades from 9.04.
I am panicked - seeing something I have *never* seen in an email
program, Have been getting strange behaviour that is interpreting
mouse clicks as move instructions - and it's been moving stuff around
without being asked to. Including entire folders. The end point here,
and what has me really spooked, is that it managed to completely
hide the main Inbox (after putting it elsewhere, and my putting
it back, except that it didn't put it at the top level but placed
it under the empty Inbox )- but here's the bizarre aspect - 
You know how the folder list puts a number in bold next to the
folder name indicating unread messages? This Inbox-under-Inbox
folder is displaying 23 unread messages, but the folder is empty.

I have looked at every other folder and subfolder to try to find where
the several hundred accumulated inbox messages have gone. No luck.
But this bit of showing the unread number by the folder, but with
nothing in the folder, has me terrified. And I ain't easily terrified -
I've been using email for almost 30 years.

I have a lot of messages in that missing folder that I really cannot
afford to lose, some of which came in since my weekly backup. Anything
before last Thursday I can restore without much difficulty, but I'm
worried about those since Thursday.

Any ideas?


 Brewster Gillett

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[Evolution] Problems with Contacts

[Brewster Gillett]

Just installed 2.28.1, under Karmic Koala.(Ubuntu 9.10)

Thought I had the Contacts files brought over in good order, but there
are several individual ones missing, and *all* of the Contact Lists  are
completely hashed. None are usable. And when I attempted
to create a new Contacts List tonight, it gave me a completely
uninformative error message and refused to file the new list.

When I tried to enter an individual contact just now, it gave me
the same error box.

Is there a trick under 2.28.1 to making the Contacts work? 

I've looked through the docs, and so far have not found any warnings
about this area. Mine is not a complicated installation; I do not
have multiple address books, I am not connecting to any sort of
exchange server or LDAP, and there are no other users on my system.
About the most I have ever needed to do with Contacts, besides
the basic address book of individuals, is maintain a dozen or so Lists
ranging from 5 to 15 names each, of small groupings that I need to
mail to now and then. Evo apparently wants me to have to re-enter every
single one of those from scratch.

BTW I still have not found out what Evo did to an entire Inbox of
several hundred messages, 23 of them unread, that just disappeared
yesterday. I'm beginning to wonder if I should be using it at all at
this rate.

Thanks,

Brewster

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[Evolution] Contacts difficulties

[Brewster Gillett]

Yet another issue crops up in my freshly installed 2.28.1 -
(under Karmic Koala on an AMD Athlon 2.something)
I can live with the system having somehow left behind
several of the Contacts from my old 1.7 or 1.4 or whatever 
ancient Evo it was. I can always re-enter a handful.
And have already done so. Though I fail to understand why,
when copying across that data, it would take part of the list 
and leave behind the rest.

But it is refusing to sort as I have asked - something the
old Evo never had a problem with. If I look at my individual
Contacts, the sort rules are exactly as I have set them up - 
usually last name first for individuals, which naturally is the
default. But when I access the list, to insert an address into
an email message, not only are the Contacts being sorted by
*first* name, but some Contacts are not even included in
that list at all. Now *that*, folks, is hard to understand.

Understand what I am saying, here - these are contacts that
*are* on the master list and can be accessed in the Contact list
edit mode, and their presence verified, but which do not show up,
anywhere, in the pop-up list that is presented when attempting to load
the "To:" in an email.

What am I doing wrong?

I can supply more details if need be.

Thanks,

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Contacts difficulties

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 13:37 -0800, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > But it is refusing to sort as I have asked - something the
> > old Evo never had a problem with. If I look at my individual
> > Contacts, the sort rules are exactly as I have set them up - 
> > usually last name first for individuals, which naturally is the
> > default. But when I access the list, to insert an address into
> > an email message, not only are the Contacts being sorted by
> > *first* name, but some Contacts are not even included in
> > that list at all. Now *that*, folks, is hard to understand.

Milan Crha wrote:

>   Hi,
> I'm not sure, the missing contacts, is it same as this one?
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2009-October/msg00324.html

Brewster:

No, not at all the same.

Milan:

> With respect of sorting, there is another bug about it, that every edit
> of a contact list reverses ordering of the contacts in a list. But as
> far as I know it doesn't sort them by anything, just by the order you
> entered them in the list (with a respective reverse of the whole list).
>   Bye,
>   Milan

Brewster:

That's not what's happening. Say, for example, I have a contact,
named Robert Arnold. In the Contact Editor, in the block flagged
as "file as", I have it clearly entered as "Arnold, Robert".
But when I am opening the Contacts to look for an address to insert into
an email, and I see the list of names and addresses, ( in the window
"SELECT CONTACTS FROM ADDRESS BOOK" )they are virtually *all* sorted by
first name, not last, including Robert Arnold, who is sorted under
"Robert", not under "Arnold, as his entry clearly specifies.
In addition, there are a few entries in the address book which refuse to
show up at all in that window. 

It would seem this may be a bug. Either that or there's an option switch
I have not yet found that acts to override clear and simple instructions
from the Contacts Editor. But that still does not explain how it is that
several Contacts are just plain missing from the "SELECT CONTACTS FROM
ADDRESS BOOK" window, even thought those contacts *are* clearly present
when I go into the list under other means such as the edit function.

This sort of thing never happened in my ancient, rust-spattered and
dented five-year-old previous incarnation of Evo.

Help!


Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Contacts difficulties/Milan

[Brewster Gillett]

> Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > It would seem this may be a bug. Either that or there's an option
> > switch > I have not yet found that acts to override clear and simple
> > instructions > from the Contacts Editor.
>   Hi,

Milan Crha:

> I agree, sounds like a bug. I've no idea whether it was already filled
> or not, thus please look at https://bugzilla.gnome.org and try to find
> out.

Brewster:

I made a really thorough search of the bugzilla list, and could not turn
up anything even close to this problem. If this *were* a bug, you'd
think it would be getting talked about all over the map - but apparently
it isn't. So that leads me to believe that it is some sort of optioning
around address list sorting that I have not yet discovered, though I've
been through every Help screen that could possibly cover it.

I am really hesitant to take up space on the buglist with something
that may not be a bug. If I am the only one experiencing this, which
seems fairly evident, that sharply reduces the chances of it being a
bug. It just defies the imagination that, if everyone running 2.28.1
was having their cards display in an order other than what they had
specified in the Contact Editor, that would not be a much-discussed
item.

BTW Synaptics just yesterday downloaded and installed a good-sized
(though not version-changing) update to Evo, and the problem is still
there.

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] two questions about evolution/poc

[Brewster Gillett]

On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 14:11 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> PS Please don't post in HTML here.

bg:

Patrick, he's a Yahoo user - he probably doesn't even *know*
he's posting in HTML, or what HTML is, even :-)

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Edit contacts?

[Brewster Gillett]

I have a Contacts question.
 how is it possible that:

(1) in my Contacts editing screens, the Contacts are all listed
by their "sort by" fields (generally last name first, the default)
but when I am composing an email, smack "TO:", and get the
Contacts List popup, over there it lists them by the primary
name in the Contact record (generally first name first).

(2) There are contacts that appear in the latter list but do not
show up in the former one. Which means they cannot be edited.

Neither of these manifestations make a particle of sense - they do 
not represent any sort of feature that anyone in their right mind would
ever have requested - yet nobody else seems to be experiencing these
kinds of problems, which of course implies that it may be an option
switch.

I have read through some 1200 Evo FAQs and have seen no mention of this.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Ubuntu 9.10 / Evo 2.28.1

Brewster


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[Evolution] HELP, please.

[Brewster Gillett]

About three weeks ago I posted the query below to this list.
So far there has been zero response.

Let's ride the loop:

* This has apparently never cropped up in anyone else's installation

* Therefore it must be presumed to be a feature, not a bug

* If so, then there should be an option switch for it

I am not prepared to believe that this artifact could be presenting to
other users and not be noticed. So where does that leave us?

Does anyone have any ideas? My previous (4-year-old) version 1-Something
Evo didn't pull this crap on me.

Thank you,

Brewster

2.28.1 under Ubuntu 9.10
---

On Sun, 2009-12-13 at 13:20 -0800, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> I have a Contacts question.
>  how is it possible that:
> 
> (1) in my Contacts editing screens, the Contacts are all listed
> by their "sort by" fields (generally last name first, the default)
> but when I am composing an email, smack "TO:", and get the
> Contacts List popup, over there it lists them by the primary
> name in the Contact record (generally first name first).
> 
> (2) There are contacts that appear in the latter list but do not
> show up in the former one. Which means they cannot be edited.
> 
> Neither of these manifestations make a particle of sense - they do 
> not represent any sort of feature that anyone in their right mind would
> ever have requested - yet nobody else seems to be experiencing these
> kinds of problems, which of course implies that it may be an option
> switch.
> 
> I have read through some 1200 Evo FAQs and have seen no mention of this.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Ubuntu 9.10 / Evo 2.28.1
> 
> Brewster
> 
> 


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Re: [Evolution] HELP/new explanation for Sylvia

[Brewster Gillett]

On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 10:29 -0200, Sylvia Sánchez wrote:
> 
> I don't understand your way to explain, that's why I didn't answer
> your questions. 

bg:

Fair enough. I'll try to explain a different way.

There is a master record for each Contact in the Address Book.
Within that record are several individual fields, two of which deal with
the name of the Contact. The first one is called "Full Name", and 
carries the actual name of the contact. The second name field is
called "File Under", and defaults to last name first. This second
field constitutes the user's instructions as to how they wish
their Address Book to be sorted.

There are also two places in Evolution where the list of Contacts
can be seen. The first one is in the main Contacts database,
or Address Book, which is where Contacts are selected to be edited.
The second place the Address Book can be displayed is when you are
in "EDIT" (email composing) mode, and you click on the "TO:" field,
whereupon a listing of your Address Book pops up in a small window.

The primary difficulty I am experiencing is that Evo is sorting
two different ways, depending upon where the Address Book is viewed.
When I am in the main Contacts (Contact adding and editing) area,
the Contact entries are sorted as they have been requested to be
sorted - last name first. But when I access the second instance,
the pop-up that responds to the "TO:" in the "EDIT" (email composing)
mode, that window is ignoring the instruction, and displaying the
Contacts sorted on "Full Name", rather than on the "File Under" field.

The reason I am finding the lack of responses to this query so puzzling
is very simple: it seems that either nobody else has experienced
this, or that they have, and have ignored it. Does it not seem quite
unlikely that, if this is a bug in 2.28.1, nobody else would have
noticed it? Is it possible that people would actually put up with
having their Contacts incorrectly sorted every time they need to
retrieve one when composing an email?

Then as a related part of this, there are Contacts which appear in the
latter list but never show up in the main Contacts editing list.
That is also unacceptable; if for no other reason than those Contacts
which do not show on the main Contacts editing screen are therefore
no available for editing.

I really have to believe these conditions are both bugs, but I have
invested a lot of time in searching forum posts and bug lists, and have
yet to find either one. On the other hand , if they *are* bugs, why
is it that nobody else has noticed them?

I don't like mysteries. If I want mystery, I'll read Agatha Christie.
I don't need it in my email programs :-)

Brewster
 

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Re: [Evolution] HELP, please/reid

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Sun, 2010-01-03 at 15:32 -0800, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > Does anyone have any ideas? 
> 
> > > (1) in my Contacts editing screens, the Contacts are all listed
> > > by their "sort by" fields (generally last name first, the default)
> > > but when I am composing an email, smack "TO:", and get the
> > > Contacts List popup, over there it lists them by the primary
> > > name in the Contact record (generally first name first).

Reid Thompson wrote:

> I see the same from head approx 2 weeks ago (will rebuild from head
> today).  I've never found it to be an issue though.  I tend to use the
> search box and/or autocomplete to find addresses that I need.

I find autocomplete, in any program, to be less than optimal, so to
me it's easier to hit the "TO:" and scroll down. 

I thought the search function available in compose mode only searched
the body of the message? Are you saying it can be set to search the
Address Book?

Brewster wrote earlier:

> > > (2) There are contacts that appear in the latter list but do not
> > > show up in the former one. Which means they cannot be edited.

Reid Thompson wrote:

> I don't know whether this issue exists for me or not.  I've not noticed
> it, but that's not to say that it doesn't exist for me.  Are the
> contacts being merged from a different 'list'?
> 
> reid

Absolutely not - they all came into 2.28.1 as a bunch from my earlier
version of Evo.

I am really finding all of this very puzzling, which is highly
uncomfortable; I'm not generally this puzzled over something which
should be fairly simple :-)

Brewster

2.28.1 under Ubuntu 9.10

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Re: [Evolution] HELP/new explanation/Biggs

[Brewster Gillett]

 no available for editing.

Pete:

> They aren't "contacts" as such they are email addresses extracted from
> your contacts.  Perhaps you have extra email addresses in some of your
> contacts that are being listed there as well.

Brewster:

I don't understand those two sentences very well. If they appear as
Contacts in that popup list, displaying name and email address, how
does that make then "email addresses extracted from your contacts"?

And to the best of my knowledge, not a single one of the Contacts
in my Address Book contains more than one email address. For one thing,
if the condition as you describe it obtained, then I would be seeing
duplicate listings in the popup, which of course I am not.

Are you suggesting that every time I type an email address into
a composing screen, eventually it finds its way into that popup?
I know for incontrovertible fact that *that* is not the case. 
Are you saying that the "TO:" popup is including addresses *other*
than those that have been specifically entered in the Contacts
database ("Address Book")? News to me if so. And I know for a fact that
in one specific instance, the original Contact *was* entered into
the database, but with an illegal character in the email address - 
- is the presence of the illegal character what allows it to show up in
the popup, but not in the Address Book edit page? Under these conditions
the error one will live forever, because if it doesn't appear in the 
Address Book edit window, I can never delete it!

Brewster:[earlier]

> > I really have to believe these conditions are both bugs, but I have
> > invested a lot of time in searching forum posts and bug lists, and have
> > yet to find either one. On the other hand , if they *are* bugs, why
> > is it that nobody else has noticed them?

Pete:

> If all this bothers you, and no one as reported it before, then file a
> bug ... and congratulate yourself that you have found an issue that no
> one else has spotted before :-)  That is after all how FOSS works.  And
> remember that what to you is a show stopper crass obvious bug, may well
> be an edge case to other people.

Brewster:

I'm well aware of that. I just am finding it a little strainful to
believe that nobody who reads the lists or forums ever uses that
popup, or does and has never noticed that it ignores sort instructions.
But that may well be the case.

See, Pete, I think that, for the specific kind of transaction I
described, Autocomplete is both more work and more prone to
error, particularly for those of us who are really poor typists:-)

Brewster:[earlier]
 
> > I don't like mysteries. If I want mystery, I'll read Agatha Christie.
> > I don't need it in my email programs :-)

Pete:
 
> If you don't want it to be a mystery, then read the source and see what
> has actually been programmed - it's FOSS, so nothing is either a mystery
> or a secret.

Brewster:

A fine suggestion, but I'm afraid it would still remain a mystery for
me, Pete; despite having spent nigh 30 years in IT, I managed to escape
knowing how to generate (or read and understand) any kind of code beyond
very simple BASIC, Unix shell scripts, and a procedural/JCL from a
long-expired TI mini :-)

Thanks for your contribution,

Brewster


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[Evolution] Continuing adress-book problems

[Brewster Gillett]

There appears to be something seriously broken in the Address Book.
On Monday I sent a couple of time-critical emails to a small group
list (12 names) that I had regularly used prior to upgrading to 2.28.1.
It now appears that neither of these messages were supplied with
addresses - when I view them in the "SENT" folder, no "TO:"
address appears, and apparently nobody on that list received either
message. Even more puzzling, given that apparently an email was sent
to null, is that I have no bounce from it, as I would expect.

Yet the group appears normally in the Contacts list,
and I have a screenshot verifying that, which is probably way
too large to be posted to the list. This group also shows up in the
pop-up list that drops when you hit "TO": as part of the composition
process. All normal and expected, up to that point.

I have other instances where individual Contacts appear in the main
Contacts editing screen, but fail to turn up in that pop-up list that
you access when you mash the "TO:" button in composing an email. Which
means that they are unavailable, or unusable if you prefer.

This in addition to the sorting issues that I have raised previously, 
which nobody seems to be able to verify.

How can this happen? 

It beggars the imagination to suppose that nobody on this list ever
makes a practice of addressing originating email messages by
accessing the Contacts list as part of the process of composing
an original email message. 

Let alone that what worked fine in previous Evo versions - the 
small group lists of Contacts - now appears to be broken.
Does nobody else use that part of Evo either?

What am I missing here?

This latest messup is causing me some serious trouble with timelines.
If these things are not repairable I'm going to have to abandon Evo
for good.


Thanks,

Brewster Gillett



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Re: [Evolution] email body format/jd

[Brewster Gillett]

On Wed, 2010-05-12 at 18:23 -0700, jd wrote:

> I find it lame that Evo will not fully support displaying
> all of html content, with images, while editing a new
> message.

bg:

Given that sending emails with html content is decidedly not recommended
from a security standpoint, it should come as no surprise. Why encourage
a practice that is a known security hazard? Those who have a special
situation like yours where your recipient is *expecting* HTML from you
are obviously in a fairly small minority, hence an exception, hence are
obliged to perform the sort of extra motions that exceptions and
outliers are generally stuck with.

Nuttin' personal, Vinnie - jus' bidness!

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] unsubscribe - a wider problem?(a little off-topic)

[Brewster Gillett]

On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 10:12 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 00:41 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 11:21 -0400, Rick Stanley wrote:
> > > To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ...
> > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
> > 
> > Read the above.
> > 
> 
> I think what I find surprising (and sad) is that the sig of the OP says
> that they are "Computer System Consultants" and "Linux & Open Source
> Specialists" - if they can't figure out how to unsubscribe from a
> mailing list, what hope is there!
> 
> P.

bg:

I feel sorry for this guy's clients if this is indicative of his level
of awareness. Of course the fact that someone claiming to be a Linux
specialist is using a gmail address, rather than his own domain, is also
a trifle off-putting :-)

I am beginning to think, based on observing the clueless list-directed
unsub requests, and also on several other unrelated observations over
time, that what we may have here is a pandemic failure to read to the
end of documents of all kinds. I'm interested in hearing whether others
have noticed this. So very often, I see people uninformed about
something that they would have possessed full information about if only
they had read a given (something) all the way to the end, rather than
abandoning it partway through.

A good example is the discussion of op-eds. Many people seem to be
unaware that the essay form generally results in a summation of the
points, and sometimes even the first integration of the elements of the
points, in the final paragraph. So they read the first half of the 
editorial, and conclude from this that they know what the writer was
trying to communicate, and proceed to discuss it as if they knew all
about it, and fall flat on their faces because they never bothered
to finish it.

Your thoughts?

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Msg Selection/date ordering

[Brewster Gillett]

On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 13:10 +0530, chen wrote:

> > Is that configurable in any way? I like my newest mail to be at the end
> > (bottom) of a list. The "jump to first in list" is mildly annoying in
> > such circumstances, especially in folders with a lot of mail. Now I
> > know /why/ this is happening I can try to work around it; hadn't
> > realised that that was what was causing it.
> Its not configurable.
> 
> - Chenthill.

brewster:

This is interesting, and raises an additional question or two.
I always get my newest at the bottom, and here's how...

I have over twenty different folders, for things like interest areas,
personal business categories, or e-group memberships, like this group.
I tend to leave a lot of messages in the folders, because I will
eventually perform differing operations on various ones, depending upon
the subject, and I don't always have time to do those things right away.
So where new (unread) messages show up is decidedly an issue.

I sort by date, oldest first. So my unreads generally appear at the
bottom, unless they're a spam dated 1969 which somehow slipped through
the filters :-) But here's an Evo artifact I have never understood - 
sometimes, not consistently, when I click on an unread to highlight that
line, the entire body of messages will shift around, usually pushing the
bottom ones off the screen. There does not appear to be any logical
purpose for this motion, and worst, it doesn't always take place.
Has anyone else encountered this phenomenon?

The other one that is a bit disconcerting is that there seems to be a
bug in Evo's reporting on the left-hand pane where the folders list
appears, of how many unreads are in a given folder. I can be staring
right at a main screen that shows all eight messages in a folder, with
every single one of the eight displaying as "read", yet the left-hand
list pane entry shows that folder as having one (or sometimes two) 
unread messages. Has anyone else noticed that one?

Thanks,

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Msg Selection/date ordering/POC

[Brewster Gillett]

Brewster wrote:
> > > > The other one that is a bit disconcerting is that there seems to
> > > be a
> > > > bug in Evo's reporting on the left-hand pane where the folders
> > > list
> > > > appears, of how many unreads are in a given folder. I can be
> > > staring
> > > > right at a main screen that shows all eight messages in a folder,
> > > with
> > > > every single one of the eight displaying as "read", yet the
> > > left-hand
> > > > list pane entry shows that folder as having one (or sometimes
> > > two) 
> > > > unread messages. Has anyone else noticed that one?

POC:
> > > Yes, it's a known bug and is quite annoying. If you're talking about
> > > IMAP folders you can sometimes fix it by unsubscribing from the
> > > folder
> > > and resubscribing it. This forces Evo to update everything. I can't
> > > recall seeing the bug on non-IMAP folders. 
> >
> I don't use Evo for newsgroups, but most of my mail is on IMAP servers
> and I do see it from time to time.
> 
> poc

Brewster chimes in:

This is probably the juncture at which I need to point out that
I am using strictly POP in this home network... no IMAP anywhere
hereabouts to the best of my knowledge :-)

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Digest/Tor

[Brewster Gillett]

On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 10:05 +0300, Tor Lillqvist wrote:

> Why does evolution-list even provide the possibility to subscribe to a
> digest? Isn't a mailing list digest a concept that is broken by design
> and has no reason to exist in this century? Surely by now any sensible
> mail client (like Evolution) provides the means to order messages from
> a mailing list in a separate folder or whatever, neatly organised by
> thread, on the client side? What are digests needed for?
> 
> I suggest we ask the gnome mailing list admins to convert all digest
> subscribers into normal subscribers, and remove the digest
> possibility. At least for the Evolution lists.
> 
> The mailing list digest concept is a historical artefact from ARPANET
> days that deserves to die.
> 
> --tml

bg:

I could not possibly agree with you more, Tor. The Digest mode
doesn't just encourage cluelessness, it bloody *celebrates* it!
Why can't we just for once and for all banish it to whatever
circle of newbie hell it came from?

It may have had some limited utility in the days when CompuSlime
charged their subscribers a pop for each inbound email message,
but no longer.

If I had any idea how to convince those mailing list admins I would
be on it like a duck on a June bug :-)

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Re: [Evolution] evolution-list Digest/POC

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 10:05 +0300, Tor Lillqvist wrote:

> > I suggest we ask the gnome mailing list admins to convert all digest
> > subscribers into normal subscribers, and remove the digest
> > possibility. At least for the Evolution lists.
> > 
> > The mailing list digest concept is a historical artefact from ARPANET
> > days that deserves to die.

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> Fine by me. Everything to do with digests causes all sorts of problems.
> I guess they may have had some justification in the days when most
> people were on dial-up, but those days are long gone and even those who
> still have to use dial-up have better options than digests.

Brewster responds:

Okay, so how do we start the process? Maybe we can launch a trend, of 
listservs permanently turning off the damned Digest option. Whom do
we email to get going on this? Maybe we can make it happen Gnome-wide!

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] evolution-list Digest/POC

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 09:39 -0700, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > Okay, so how do we start the process? Maybe we can launch a trend, of 
> > listservs permanently turning off the damned Digest option. Whom do
> > we email to get going on this? Maybe we can make it happen Gnome-wide!

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> The Gnome lists are managed by Mailman, not listserv.

bg:

Help me out here, Patrick - isn't Mailman just a name for one
of several different listservs? Albeit arguably the most popular

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> I have no special influence on the list admins, I'm just a user like
> you. I guess the first thing would be to write to
> evolution-list-ow...@gnome.org. I don't know if there is such a thing as
> a general Gnome list admin. I suspect each list defines its own
> policies.

bg:

Hey well - today Evo, tomorrow the world!

I'll give it a shot.

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] evolution-list Digest/POC

[Brewster Gillett]

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> > > The Gnome lists are managed by Mailman, not listserv.
> > 
> > bg:
> > 
> > Help me out here, Patrick - isn't Mailman just a name for one
> > of several different listservs? Albeit arguably the most popular
> 
> listserv is a specific mailing list software platform. It should not be
> used as a general-purpose noun for any kind of list manager (it would be
> like saying Windows when you mean Operating System). See
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listserv
> 
> poc

Brewster Gillett wrote:

Roity-hayoe - according to your wiki reference,

"LISTSERV is a registered trademark with the U.S. Patent and Trademark
Office [5] and the Swedish Patent and Registration Office, PRV.[6] As
such, using the word "listserv" to describe a different product or as a
generic term for any email-based mailing list of that kind is a
trademark misuse. The standard generic terms are electronic mailing
list, elist, or email list for the list itself, and email list manager
or email list software for the software product that manages the
list.[7]"

Just three words as comment - "Kleenex", "Xerox" and "Frigidaire"
... and I for one would never take "Windows" to mean "Operating System"
- I abandoned their O/S line back when W95 was released :-)


Brewster


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Re: [Evolution] Reply for list messages should go back to the list

[Brewster Gillett]

On Mon, 2010-07-12 at 18:06 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-07-12 at 16:01 -0600, Bart wrote:
> > How about a little piece of code that looks at the message and, if
> > it's going to a list, nags you if you've top posted?  
> 
> It's tempting ... :-)
> 
> poc

bg:

Top-posting is how we can distinguish people who think from those
who only react :-)

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[Evolution] Problems with Contacts

[Brewster Gillett]

Running Evo 2.28.3 under Ubuntu 10.04.

I have 69 entries in my address book (Contacts, as Evo names them).

Three of those are groups - multiple addressees collected under a 
single Contact entry (what Evo calls a "Contact list").

They don't get a lot of use in my normal work patterns.

When I used one of them as a "To:" address in a new email this 
afternoon, I got a popup telling me, 

"This message cannot be sent because you have not specified
 any recipients."

This is bogus. I *did* specify a recipient - the name of the Contact
list, plucked right out of the popup that appears, listing the Contacts,
when you smack the "To:" button. And it was sitting right there,
prominently displayed in the "To:" field, as it is supposed to be.
So why is Evo saying it can't see it?

What's the problem, and can it be solved?

I've pored through several pages of FAQ and found little or nothing
that even addresses the Contacts module at all.

There surely do seem to be a lot of problems with the Contact part
of this program. This is only one of many annoying and incomprehensible
glitches in this area of Evo.

Thanks for whatever insights you can supply,

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] Problems with Contacts/poc

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 20:51 -0700, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > "This message cannot be sent because you have not specified
> >  any recipients."
> > 
> > This is bogus. I *did* specify a recipient - the name of the Contact
> > list, plucked right out of the popup that appears, listing the
> > Contacts,
> > when you smack the "To:" button. And it was sitting right there,
> > prominently displayed in the "To:" field, as it is supposed to be.
> > So why is Evo saying it can't see it?
> > 
> > What's the problem, and can it be solved?

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> I don't much use contact lists, but does this happen with every such
> list or just with a specific one? If it's just the one, perhaps there's
> a format error in one of the email addresses.
> 
> poc

brewster:

Of the other two, one apparently sent okay, and the other returned this
rather pushy and aggravating message:

"Are you sure you want to send a message with only blind copy
recipients?"

Pushy damned program :-)

I have checked all twelve addresses in the original offender, and cannot
find any format errors. So now what?

Relative to your observation "I don't much use contact lists", do you
have an alternate suggestion for my application of it? I am a board
member of a non-profit, and a board member of an e-commerce startup,
plus a coordinator of a volunteer cadre of twelve (the original problem
list). How would *you* reduce the typing labor if you had to
occasionally send email to a group of six, nine or twelve people?

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Re: [Evolution] Problems with Contacts/tobias

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 20:51 -0700, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> 
> When I used one of them as a "To:" address in a new email this 
> afternoon, I got a popup telling me, 
> 
> "This message cannot be sent because you have not specified
>  any recipients."

Barbara Tobias wrote:

> At the bottom left of the contact list window, there is a checkbox
> marked "Hide addresses when sending mail to this list."  Apparently the
> default is to hide the addresses (send as blind copies) because when you
> create a new list, the box comes already checked.
> 
> Just uncheck the box and it will make Evo happy.  All the addressees
> will show.
> 
>   Barbara

bg:

Sorry, Barbara, but in this case you have it exactly backwards -
that list had *always* had that particular box unchecked - it has
never been set up for BCC.

The amusing thing is that one of the other two lists, which *was* set to
BCC, is the one that, on testing, returned the message:

"Are you sure you want to send a message with only blind copy
recipients?"

None of which of course addresses the issue that the user may have
good reason to set the BCC switch on - doing so should not
be crippling the mailing process - else why is the option on offer?

There are all sorts of bugs in the Contacts module, which I have not
even begun to address, since they are in different areas not
related to this problem. But there are enough of them, and they
are annoying, and crippling, enough that they cause me to
periodically consider fleeing to TBird :-)

There is just a lot wrong with the code that runs Evo's address book.

Brewster
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[Evolution] Need help with Contacts - please

[Brewster Gillett]

Using Evo 2.28.3 and Ubuntu 10.04.

I am beginning to wonder if any of our senior experts on this list have
ever used Evolution's Contacts module. Perhaps address books went out of
fashion when I wasn't looking, and Autocomplete is the flavor of the
month now. There are some inexplicable things going on in the Contacts
section, and have been for a long time, but we rarely see it mentioned.

At present I have 70 Contacts filed. All but three are individuals.
Problems with the three that are "lists" were introduced in an earlier
email message, and have not yet been resolved. Another topic :-)

When I initiate a "NEW" email message, and follow the instructions
in the Evo Help, as reproduced here,

"Alternately, you can click the To:, Cc:, or Bcc: buttons to get a list
of the email addresses in your contacts. Select addresses and click the
arrows to move them into the appropriate address columns."

then I get the popup window listing my Contacts. Unfortunately, it has
*two* significant discrepancies. First, it only lists 60 of my
70 contacts. I have examined each one of the contacts that are being
omitted, and the few checked or populated boxes in them do not differ
in any discernible fashion from any of the ones that *are* being listed.

"Personal" is the only mailbox choice in use on any of them.

"Any" is the chosen category for all.

Three elements are the maximum (and minimum) number used in all 70
Contacts:

Full Name
File under
email address

So the only conclusion I can reach is that the popup maybe is limited
to 60 entries - can that possibly be true?

The other problem, and I have posted it here at least twice with no
responses, is that the system appears to be completely ignoring,
in all cases, the sorting according to the "File under" field 
in the Contact entries. What it is sorting by is the *first name*
of the Contact. Let me make this one very clear; when I actually
move into the Contacts module, as in to do editing of Contacts,
all the Contacts appear sorted by the "File under" field, as they
are expected to be. It is only in the "SELECT CONTACTS" popup
that appears when you are composing a new message and smack the
"To:" field that they are being incorrectly sorted on first name
from the "Full Name" field.

BTW though I shouldn't have to, I will add that every single one of the
entries in my Contacts *does* have the "File under" field populated. 

What really mystifies me is the apparent fact that I am the only user 
who has noticed these two things, so far.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can look for
to fix these problems? It's always possible that they could be the
result of something I am doing, or failing to do, though I can't see
how. Or are they bugs?

Or should I just shut up, forget about the popup and its sorting and
omission issues, and rely completely on the Autocomplete feature?

Thanks,


Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Need help with Contacts/Adam

[Brewster Gillett]

bg:

> > At present I have 70 Contacts filed. All but three are individuals.
> > Problems with the three that are "lists" were introduced in an earlier
> > email message, and have not yet been resolved. Another topic :-)

Adam:

> Yes, representing anything other than contacts is problematic.  This
> isn't entirely Evolution's fault;  the vCard spec provides no way to
> represent anything other than a Contact.

bg:

You're confusing me here, Adam - the "lists" I refer to are a standard
part of the Evo Contacts module, according to the documentation -
there should be no reason I cannot file 12 names and email addresses
under one Contact and thereby create a Contact List. I have done it
successfully quite often in the past.  And with lists a whole lot larger
than 12. These would not constitute "anything other than a Contact" so
far as I am aware???


bg:
> > When I initiate a "NEW" email message, and follow the instructions
> > in the Evo Help, as reproduced here,
> > "Alternately, you can click the To:, Cc:, or Bcc: buttons to get a list
> > of the email addresses in your contacts. Select addresses and click the
> > arrows to move them into the appropriate address columns."

Adam:

> Yep.

bg:

> > then I get the popup window listing my Contacts. Unfortunately, it has
> > *two* significant discrepancies. First, it only lists 60 of my
> > 70 contacts. I have examined each one of the contacts that are being
> > omitted, and the few checked or populated boxes in them do not differ
> > in any discernible fashion from any of the ones that *are* being listed.

> > So the only conclusion I can reach is that the popup maybe is limited
> > to 60 entries - can that possibly be true?

Adam:

> Could be.  I'd say that the default behavior is broken anyway - listing
> ANY contacts by default is incorrect.  

bg:

That doesn't make any sense - right above here I reproduce the
specific instructions from the help module that tell you you
will get a Contacts listing whenever you smack the "To:", "Cc:",
or "Bcc:" buttons on your new emnail.

Adam:

> Can you search for your contacts?

bg:

I'm unclear on exactly what you mean by that term in this context.
I can go to the Contacts area, where I see my list of all 70 Contacts
marching across the top of the screen, in proper "File under"
order, and I need only click on one of them to drop down its
edit window, say, if someone changes their email address.

I can also start typing in the "To:" field of the new email, and
that may cause Autocomplete to call up the full name and address.
I suppose it's doing a search, in that case.

Adam:

> [What if you have thousands of contacts, do you expect them all to be
> listed?  Either (a) the program will try and probably crash or hang or
> (b) only a subset will be listed and the user will be confused.
> Conclusion: list none]

bg:

A good question.I don't have an answer. All I know is that the Evo docs,
as I copied above, do provide that the Contacts list will appear any
time you click one of those three fields when editing a new message.

bg:

> > The other problem, and I have posted it here at least twice with no
> > responses, is that the system appears to be completely ignoring,
> > in all cases, the sorting according to the "File under" field 
> > in the Contact entries. What it is sorting by is the *first name*
> > of the Contact. Let me make this one very clear; when I actually
> > move into the Contacts module, as in to do editing of Contacts,
> > all the Contacts appear sorted by the "File under" field, as they
> > are expected to be. It is only in the "SELECT CONTACTS" popup
> > that appears when you are composing a new message and smack the
> > "To:" field that they are being incorrectly sorted on first name
> > from the "Full Name" field.

Adam:

> Hmm.  I've give that a try.

bg:

> > BTW though I shouldn't have to, I will add that every single one of the
> > entries in my Contacts *does* have the "File under" field populated. 

Adam:

> Can you even save a contact without that field filled in?

bg:

No - it autocompletes based on some algorithm that selects
last name first, if the "Full Name" entry above it appears
to be a person's name, as opposed to, say, a corp or other org.
It will let you backspace the entry out, but I note that when
you do, the "OK" block at the bottom right of the individual Contact
edit window is greyed out - so it's not gonna let you save with that
"File under" field blank. 

Given the software's insiste

Re: [Evolution] Need help with Contacts/Adam,II

[Brewster Gillett]

> > > Or should I just shut up, forget about the popup and its sorting and
> > > omission issues, and rely completely on the Autocomplete feature?

poc:
> > Well, you do retain the option of reporting this to Bugzilla as a bug,
> > which it may well be. Note that the Evo devels don't regularly read this
> > list, so BZ is the canonical way of registering problems in a way that
> > will persist over time.
> > If you do decide to report it, post the URL here in case anyone wants to
> > add something.

Adam:

> I'm curious if the poster sees the same behavior in the add-attendee
> dialog when adding a participant to an appointment in the calendar?

bg:

If you're addressing that to me, Adam, I would be utterly useless - I
have never used the calendar at all.

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Need help with Contacts/Victoria/Adam

[Brewster Gillett]

> > On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 07:50 -0700, Brewster Gillett wrote: 
> > > When I initiate a "NEW" email message, and follow the instructions
> > > in the Evo Help, as reproduced here,
> > > "Alternately, you can click the To:, Cc:, or Bcc: buttons to get a list
> > > of the email addresses in your contacts. Select addresses and click the
> > > arrows to move them into the appropriate address columns."

Victoria Spagnolo wrote:

> > Brewster, you are not alone. I get unexpected results here as well. I
> > have selected over thirty address and only 6 get move to the right
> > side of that popup. But the next day I select all 30 and they all move
> > to the right side.  I've been using evo for only a few months and, for
> > now, I just work around it and figure that I am still learning.

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> I just did a couple of tests and moving available addresses from the
> search result to To:/CC:/BCC: seems to work as expected.

bg:

Moving available addresses from the popup to the
"To:/Cc:/Bcc:" has never failed to work for me - that isn't the problem.
I am not fully divining what the problem is that Victoria is having - 
I don't know in what part of Evo she's selecting 30 addresses at once,
as it sounds like she's saying. I thought you could only select one at a
time from the popup I'm describing. I also don't get what "right side of
that popup" means - the only movement I know of is out of the popup,
where BTW the name & address will then no longer appear, to the
appropriate "To:" or "Cc:" field. Victoria, can you explicate a bit
further?

The problems I was describing are, (1) only 60 of my 70 Contacts
are showing up in that popup, and (2) within that popup, unlike within
the main Contacts screen, the entries are not sorted by "File under:"
but by first name.

We seem to be going around in circles a bit, here


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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution files/Martha

[Brewster Gillett]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 22:27 -0700, Martha McLaren wrote:
> Thanks for this link.  I was easily able to create a backup for
> Evolution -- it is now visible as an icon on my desktop.  Can someone
> advise me whether I need to attach this and email it someplace to save
> it? I'm assuming I can't just leave it on the desktop when I install an
> updated version of Ubuntu.

bg:

Why not just copy it to a thumb drive?

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] Need help with Contacts/nick

[Brewster Gillett]

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:57 +1000, Nick Jenkins wrote:
> > Problems with the three that are "lists" were introduced in an
> > earlier email message, and have not yet been resolved. Another
> > topic :-)
> 
> Question number 1: Have you logged these bugs in
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/ ?
> 
> Yes, it's more effort to log bugs than it is to have a whinge on the
> mailing list.

bg:

I think maybe you misunderstand a little bit. I don't mind the effort
required to file a bug, but I am at the stage where I don't yet know
whether it *is* a bug, or whether it arises from some undocumented
switch that I have yet to discover. *That* is why I figured to ask this
list first, rather than just jumping over to bugzilla.

In other words, is it possible that someone else has encountered this,
and that they have discovered that it can be resolved with a change in
some option setting somewhere? Seems like it makes sense to exhaust
those kinds of possibilities prior to opening a bug report.

nick:
> However, I've done both, and for getting stuff fixed, the bug tracker
> wins every time (well, almost every time. Sometimes it's not clear what
> the problem is and discussing it helps, or it has annoyed many people
> but nobody has reported it and the act of everyone unanimously agreeing
> on it being annoying leads to the consensus needed about how the thing
> in question should be fixed). But as a general rule, whinging is not
> especially effective. Logged bugs however persist until they are
> resolved, and provide a central point for all factual information
> relevant to the history, causes, and hopefully eventually the fix.
> 
> A good bug report should list the exact steps to reproduce the problem,
> so that testers & developers who might not know the area in question
> intimately can try the same steps, and it preferably describes what
> happened, and what you were expecting to happen.
> 
> Question number 2: Are you being realistic about the rate at which these
> bugs will be fixed?

bg:

Frankly, Nick, I haven't yet gotten to the stage of deeming it a bug.
So I guess I don't have any expectations around fix rates.

nick:

> Question number 3: Are you being realistic about your entitlement to a
> fix?

bg:

I don't know that I'm feeling entitled to a fix just yet. At this stage
I'm merely attempting to determine whether others have experienced
similar difficulties, and whether some of those may have found
some ways to work around them.

nick:

>  I'm deeply grateful for any help I get at all.

As am I.
If I have failed to articulate that sentiment, my apologies.

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] Need help with Contacts

[Brewster Gillett]

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 07:16 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> There is no need to mangle subjects like "Re: [Evolution] Need help with
> Contacts/Adam" or address specific people in response;  threading of the
> messages will do that for you/us.

Brewster replies:

I've always been under the impression that not everyone's email
client structure allows them to properly thread, so the name
flag presumably can be of help to some. Maybe that is no longer
the case, though with the proliferation of people using web-based
email, I am not convinced :-)

> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 19:07 -0700, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > bg:
> > > > At present I have 70 Contacts filed. All but three are individuals.
> > > > Problems with the three that are "lists" were introduced in an earlier
> > > > email message, and have not yet been resolved. Another topic :-)

adam:
> > > Yes, representing anything other than contacts is problematic.  This
> > > isn't entirely Evolution's fault;  the vCard spec provides no way to
> > > represent anything other than a Contact.

> > You're confusing me here, Adam - the "lists" I refer to are a standard
> > part of the Evo Contacts module, according to the documentation -
> > there should be no reason I cannot file 12 names and email addresses
> > under one Contact and thereby create a Contact List.

adam:

> There isn't a reason you can't;  but it does make the interface odd.

bg:

Can you elaborate on that last part? It isn't clear to me at all.

adam:
> And if you are syncing the addressbook with a server the results are
> undefined.

bg:

I do no synching. My needs are comparatively simple, confined largely to
my home office - I no longer have complex outside IT relationships.

Again, in describing the Contact List needs I perceive that I have;
I am a board member for three separate organizations. There are times
when I may need to *originate* an email message to go to, say, 12
people. Surely you aren't suggesting that I should construct a list from
scratch each time this need arises? What else would fulfill my need to
automate that process, other than the Contacts List function?

I'm always open to alternate solutions. But the one I don't consider
a viable alternative is to manually select and create a list each
time :-)



adam:

> > > Can you search for your contacts?

bg:

> > I'm unclear on exactly what you mean by that term in this context.

adam:

> There is a "search" field in the dialog that appears.  If the left pane
> of the dialog does not list all your contacts when the dialog initially
> opens can you search for the absent ones?

bg:

Ahhh - I see that now. I'd simply never had occasion to use it, since
my method is to just scroll through the list provided by the popup
until I get the one I want, and select it.

I tried the search list, with interesting results. Those Contacts
which are not appearing in the popup list will not return for a search,
no matter how I enter their names or addresses. What that tells me is
that the search, in this spot, is confined to only those that are 
already listed in the popup - in other words, it is not able to search
the full list of Contacts on file - only those contained in the popup.

I would be inclined to label that an oversight on the part of the
developers. Why not search the entire Contacts list?

I have invested a good deal of time, involving lots of unavoidable
handwriting of lists, (apparently when running under Ubuntu, Evo
will not honor a print request of the Contacts list unless you are
running as superuser, which means I would have to quit Evo, then
reinvoke it from the command line preceded by that damned "sudo" -
I'm accustomed since the early Eighties at AT&T to being able to
just log in as SU) 
and have turned up some intriguing results. I looked at the full list,
which was at 68 entries, and decided several Contacts could be pared.
So I deleted sufficient Contacts to bring the list total down to 63.
Now, before these deletions, I had eight Contacts which did not appear
in the popup, which sort of confirmed that the popup can only hold 60.
Then I deleted five Contacts - so now my total is 63. However - I am
*still* not seeing the same eight Contacts in the popup, and the popup
count now sits at 55.

As Flip Wilson as Geraldine said in that soda pop commercial some
years ago, "You a total stranger, and the total don't add up!".

Maybe I will eventually have to conclude there are some bugs in all of
this, and submit a report. I have about reached the unavoidable
conclusion that the system's refusal to sort the popup by the "File
under:" can only be a bug - surely nobody could have intended 

Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution/martha

[Brewster Gillett]

On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 17:29 -0700, Martha McLaren wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm getting closer to being able to do my
> re-install, but here's another Evolution question.  I now have the
> Evolution-backup.tar.gz icon on my thumb drive, but I'm not really
> sure what it contains.  

bg:

Well, aren't you the one who issued the command that created the
tar file in the first place? Then presumably you have some memory
of what the source files and their path were. If you did that from the
command line, then all you have to do is open a terminal (to get to a
command line - click APPLICATIONS..ACCESSORIES..TERMINAL) and smack the
up-arrow  enough times to scroll back through the command history until
you get to the tar one - that will show you from where you copied the
files for the backup.tar.gz archive.

martha:

> I've tried to take a look, but get into some long
> processes which seem like they may or may not end up showing what,
> exactly, I've saved.

bg:

Here is a sure-fire way to get as close and detailed a look as you want
at any tar.zip archive. If you don't already have it, download and
install Midnight Commander. Go to SYSTEM..ADMIN..SYNAPTIC PACKAGE
MANAGER any time you are thinking of installing an additional program.
In this case you would look for the Midnight Commander under "mc" -
there's only the one file, and it isn't large. It's a useful piece of
knowledge to have anyway, the process of selecting a new program 
through the Synaptic Package Manager.

Once it's installed, you invoke it by opening a terminal and entering
"mc" and hitting the Enter key, from the command line. MC is a really
amazing little package that will jump through hoops for you tirelessly
all day long and not even ask for a coffee break. Using MC, you can
examine the entire contents of a tar archive just as you would a regular
file system. Of course it offers a lot of other handy file manipulation
tools and shortcuts as well.

martha:

> Question 1: Would this backup (theoretically at least) contain my
> myriad Evolution files and their contents? (Judging by the length of
> time to back up, it might.)

bg:

Presuming that you told it to copy those when you created the tar.gz
archive, yes. Of course.

martha:

> Question 2: Once I've done my Ubuntu 10.04.1 install, assuming that
> I've indeed saved the contents of Evolution, where would I look for
> guidance in moving my files into the new version?

bg:

Always try the Evo help screens in the program first. Then go on line
and read the Evo FAQ files. Failing that, post a query here.

Brewster
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[Evolution] Odd text display character drops

[Brewster Gillett]

For years I have grown accustomed to annoying oddities in messages
from people with Yahoo email accounts, generally when in reply edit
mode. Text enclosed in dotted-line boxes which appear and disappear, and
resist trimming edits. But this is something new - and my question, for
those who might possibly have encountered something similar, is, is this
an artifact of Yahoo Mail's peculiarities, or something Evo is doing?

A friend of mine is in the habit of placing amusing headlines in his sig
line. Here is one that popped up yesterday in his sig; I have retyped
the full version to show all the original words, as he saw them on
his system:

---
On the day her father won the New Hampshire primary in 2008, Meghan
McCain feared she would be arrested for removing Mitt Romney campaign
signs from a Nashua street corner," reports the Boston Globe.
---

But here's where it gets spooky. The first increment below is how my
system reproduced it when it first appeared. The second one is from
subsequent correspondence after I'd asked him what it looked like
from *his* end:
---
(1)
> "On the day her father won the New Hampshire primary in 2008, Meghan
McCa
> paign signs from a Nashua street corner," reports the Boston Globe.

(2)
> "On the day her father won the New Hampshire p
> e arrested for removing Mitt Romney campaign signs from a Nashua
street corner," reports the Boston Globe.


I cannot visualize what mechanism could be operating, either at
Yahoo or in Evo, to drop some parts of a text string in one message
as viewed by the recipient, then different parts of the same string
in a subsequent transmission less than an hour later.

I hasten to confirm that these are not manifestations occurring
when in Reply Edit mode - this is how the text block looked in the
two original emails as I received them.

Have any of you seen anything resembling this? I am asking the list
because of the possibility that it is the result of some optioning
that I have yet to discover in Evo.

Thanks,

Brewster
 
  
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Re: [Evolution] Odd text display character drops

[Brewster Gillett]

On Thu, 2010-09-02 at 17:03 +0200, Xavier Bestel wrote:
> You should look at the source of what you sent (ctrl-U) to better see
> what happens.
> 
>   Xav

bg:

Tried it on both the original messages - did not change the display, nor
reveal any formatting artifacts. I think Pete may have come up with
a plausible answer, if not a solution :-)

Thanks,

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Odd text display character drops

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Thu, 2010-09-02 at 03:45 -0700, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > For years I have grown accustomed to annoying oddities in messages
> > from people with Yahoo email accounts, generally when in reply edit
> > mode. Text enclosed in dotted-line boxes which appear and disappear, and
> > resist trimming edits.

Pete Biggs  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, annoying isn't it.  It's down to the fact that Yahoo (and others)
> send a mangled form of HTML messages with many of the bits of text (and
> and advertising) in HTML tables or DIV structures.  The underlying
> editor for Evo interprets the HTML, even when editing in text mode, and
> tries to keep the replies and edits consistent with the original HTML.
> 
> One way around it is to highlight the text in the original message that
> you want in your reply before pressing reply, then only that text will
> be copied and it starts from a much saner base.

bg:

I had forgotten about that feature - perhaps I'll switch to using
that as my default and see what that does. Thanks!

> 
> I believe also that the underlying Evo editor is changing shortly so
> many of these things will go away.

bg:

Wooden it be loverly :-)

bg:

> > I cannot visualize what mechanism could be operating, either at
> > Yahoo or in Evo, to drop some parts of a text string in one message
> > as viewed by the recipient, then different parts of the same string
> > in a subsequent transmission less than an hour later.

Pete:

> If it is text within a fixed width table, then it might cut of the text
> - especially if you have a larger default text.

bg:

That makes a certain twisted sense and I should have thought of it
myself. But when I CTL-U the originals, no table indicators are
revealed.
> 
bg:

> > I hasten to confirm that these are not manifestations occurring
> > when in Reply Edit mode - this is how the text block looked in the
> > two original emails as I received them.

pete:
> As Xav said, look at the source of the email to see what sort of HTML
> container the text is in and even if all the text is still there.

bg:

As I reported to Xav, all the text (without all the missing characters,
of course) just as it originally showed up, is what is displayed when I
CTL-U the original two emails.

pete:

> But it's probably down to stupid mangled Yahoo HTML if you ask me :-)

bg:

Agreed. And what do you bet that when a Yahoo Mail user receives one
of these cockups, it looks just fine to them, and behaves okay when
in Reply Edit mode. I'll just bet. It would be a Yahoo kind of thing to
do - "Let's make our email formatting annoyingly proprietary so that
people will eventually give up their email client apps and just start
using Yahoo for everything."

Well, maybe not, but you gotta admit it would make a good made-for-TV
movie :-)

All kidding aside, I have frequently considered informing all those
correspondents I encounter who use Yahoo Mail that I will no longer
endure the aggravation of attempting to write properly edited
responses to their messages.

Thanks for the suggestion, Pete.

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] help with English "top post msg"

[Brewster Gillett]

On Fri, 2010-09-03 at 08:20 +0900, nomnex wrote:
> Many people do not read quotes in the messages
> by the simple fact they are so accustomed to top posting answers (in the
> Outlook way). 

bg:

Mild correction, sir - top posting is not "The Outlook Way".
Outlook will accommodate proper bottom posting just as readily
as any other email client software.

Top-posting, properly assigned its "way" description, would
be best described as "Clueless Newbie Way" :-)

Cheers,


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Re: [Evolution] help with English "top post msg"

[Brewster Gillett]

> > On Fri, 2010-09-03 at 08:20 +0900, nomnex wrote:

> > > Many people do not read quotes in the messages
> > > by the simple fact they are so accustomed
> > > to top posting answers (in the Outlook way). 
> > 
> > bg:
> > 
> > Mild correction, sir - top posting is not "The Outlook Way".
> > Outlook will accommodate proper bottom posting just as readily
> > as any other email client software.
> > 
> > Top-posting, properly assigned its "way" description, would
> > be best described as "Clueless Newbie Way" :-)
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > 
> > Brewster

Bill Kenworthy wrote:

> Or perhaps top posting should be described "the way most of the world
> does it despite being constantly chivvied by old timers on the internet
> that bottom posting is the only way." - that tells me something :)

bg:

It apparently doesn't tell you that classic life lesson I learned when I
was teenage - just because 80% of the world does something a certain
way, that does not mean it is the right way to do it. All this tells us
is that, when it comes to even minimal Net standards aimed at making
communications more readable for all (a strong value in the early days)
80% of the users of the net are, on the evidence, indeed Clueless
Newbies.

BillK:

> Live and let live and get on with your life, be tollerant.

bg:

I'm afraid I have a spot of difficulty feeling tolerant towards
care-less practices which make my internet use more difficult.

BillK:

> Actually, a far far greater sin is not trimming messages - 

bg:

True, but
Actually that is the invariable handmaiden of the top-posting
attitude, and the top-posting process itself. And a classical
manifestation of the Clueless Newbie condition, wherein the sufferer
doesn't know their email reply editor function well enough to be
*able* to trim the backquotes.

There is a good and very understandable technical reason for the
cursor positioning having led so many people astray, which I have
already beaten to death on this forum and others. Once you recognize the
default positioning of the cursor when having entered "REPLY" mode in
most email software, if you think through the process, it is easy to
understand why generations of email users, almost certainly tragically
mentorless, could have made exactly the reverse of the logical decision
which is presented by that placement.

Tolerance? No. Contempt is more like it.

BillK:
> And I am bottom posting because thats the way it was already organised.
> 
> :)
> BillK

bg:

And not so incidentally because on most lists of this sort you will
eventually be asked specifically to refrain from top-posting if
you do it often enough.

Just ask yourself - would you prefer to have read this exchange in
backwards chronological sequence? If so, why? We don't live our
lives that way (at least most of us don't).

Cordially,

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] help with English "top post msg"

[Brewster Gillett]

On Fri, 2010-09-03 at 10:42 +0900, nomnex wrote:
> > If I read what you say literally, it doesn't make sense to me. Why on
> > Earth would your answer be in quotes?
> 

> > 
> Thanks Patrick "Answers interspersed with quotes
> below." is the term I was looking for.
> 
> nomnex

bg:

In this instance I believe someone was using the shorthand expression
of "quotes" to refer to what are more accurately called the "backquote"
-  in other words, all that text from the previous message to which you
are replying, which in most instances should be trimmed down (unless
they are extraordinarily brief) to just those portions on which your
reply specifically comments. I guess they came to be called the
"backquote" because they come earlier than your reply message, i.e.,
back in time from where you are now.

I realize that English is not always very accessible for those for whom
it is not native.
. as in the wording from the backquotes above, where it says,

"Thanks Patrick "Answers interspersed with quotes
> below." is the term I was looking for."

That should not be construed as sanctioning the placement of the backquotes
*before* your answer - the (trimmed) backquotes should always come first, 
followed 
by your answer. And obviously, of course, interleaved, if you are composing, 
say, three
separate comments, covering three separate portions of the backquoted material.
That *is* the way that conversations naturally flow,
despite the protestations of the top-posting crowd.


Brewster
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[Evolution] Mass edit in calc field - help!

[Brewster Gillett]

OOo 3.2 under Ubuntu 10.04

Here's that dadblasted now-you-see-it-now-you-don't "text indicator"
(I seem to recall that's what someone once called it) that I have got
to eradicate. Since there are 678 rows in this file, I am not eager
to perform the operation individually on each row.

Here's what I have. 678-row Calc file, names & addresses and some
additional information. One of those is a column for "date on list".
Unfortunately the way I get the file, as a CSV, those entries are
not formatted specifically as dates, even though they all follow a
common format of MM/DD/. I note that each entry is preceded *in the
edit window*, but *not* in the cell itself, by a single quote. I believe
this single quote is a forced text format identifier of some sort. 

I have highlighted that column and

(1) tried "FORMAT CELLS" to force it to "DATE" format - no luck

(2) invoked Search and Replace to replace the single quote with null 
- also no luck - S&R can't *see* the danged single quote, 
from all appearances.

I have performed both of the above attempts on the file when in its
original .CSV format, and also in its versions that have been saved as
.ODS files.

So how do I get this column to reflect the date format, so that it can
be sorted by date? I'll be damned if I'm gonna go in and fiddle the edit
window 678 times!

Help!


Thanks,


Brewster

 
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Re: [Evolution] Mass edit in calc field - help!

[Brewster Gillett]

On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 11:59 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On 9/22/10 11:53 AM, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > OOo 3.2 under Ubuntu 10.04
> Wrong list?
> 
> po

bg:

Jeez - talk about a brain fart! My momma warned me there'd be
days like this when I got over 60.

Excuse the ring

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] Please Inform Me

[Brewster Gillett]

On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 11:27 +0800, Oon-Ee Ng wrote:
> On Oct 7, 2011 7:04 AM, "Fred Kauffman"  wrote:
> >
> > I have not been successful to my satisfaction in utilizing
> Evolution. It keeps freezing or gives me error messages that servers
> have stopped working. I will continue using Outlook 2002 until you
> notify me that Evolution will be stable on my Vista computer.
> > Thank you for some of the help you have given me.
> >  
> 
> Out of curiosity, who's the "you" in the above who's supposed to
> inform you of this? 

Sounds like Ol' Fred is unclear on the concept of Open Source :-)

Brewster

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[Evolution] Trash folder oddities

[Brewster Gillett]

2.28.3 under Ubuntu 10.4 (yeah, I know)

Whenever I use either of the two paths to clearing out my Trash folder,
Evo reports the expected progress messages ("X% of folder" and so forth,
but invariably leaves several messages in the folder, and returns the
error message "error while Expunging folder". These messages date back
to as old as 2008. These messages do *not* have any flags of any kind on
them, as far as I can determine.

Why does Evo balk at clearing them out, and where would this "error"
be originating?

Thanks,


Brewster  
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Re: [Evolution] Trash folder oddities/andre

[Brewster Gillett]

> > On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 19:04 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > > http://library.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.2/mail-error-folder-mismatch.html.en

Brewster Gillett wrote:

> > Doesn't work. Couple of things; (1) I haven't been getting any messages
> > citing "error storage" or "summary and folder mismatch"

Andre Klapper wrote:

> Then we need the *complete* error message on the mailing list :)

bg:

I supplied it previously, in my initial query - the sole and only
message I have been getting is:  "error while Expunging folder", on the
status line at the bottom left. If there is more verbiage associated
with that error message it is not intuitively obvious where it would be
appearing...
... I have a hunch that part of the problem may be that my older version
(2.28.3, which I also identified in my original query) does not have
some of the more detailed error messaging found in later versions.

ASIDE:

I know, the conventional wisdom says I should be upgrading more
frequently. But I read these lists in order to gain a sense of what
later versions are like, and I see a lot of complaints and problems with
each new release - it tends to make me prefer to stick with the devil I
know rather than introduce a whole new set of problems :-)

bg:
> > (2) there are no "summary"-flagged files in my older Evo version.

andre:

> I don't know what you mean by "summary-flagged files".
> 
> andre

bg:

I'm referring to wording from that URL that you supplied, where it
states, in part:
-
Remove the files ending in:

  * .ev-summary

  * .ibex.index
--

If I have to upgrade in  order to move past some of these issues, I
suppose I will - what, in your view, is the most stable and least
buggy latest version of Evo that I should try?

I must say I have seriously considered going back to KMail, or trying
Thunderbird, just to leave behind some of the oddities in Evo, which
has all sorts of calendaring and groupware features that I would never
use anyway...


Brewster
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[Evolution] All folders gone!

[Brewster Gillett]

Evo 3.2.3 under Ubuntu 12.04

Just now I started Evo, and when it came up, no folders were displayed;
none. Even more disturbing, when I tapped "SEND/RECEIVE" to download
the current messages from my server's spool, it reported fetching 18
messages, but none of them appeared on the screen. 

I have poked around all over this thing to see if there's some switch I
might have inadvertently invoked to hide all 20-some of my folders with
their probably three or four thousand accumulated messages. I've
rebooted. I cannot come up with anything promising.

I am subscribed to the list, but if I can't see the messages I'm
receiving, they won't help me much. If anyone has any helpful
suggestions, please send them to my little-used alternate address,



Thanks very much for any assistance you can offer.

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] All folders gone!SOLVED

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Thu, 2012-12-06 at 20:28 -0800, Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > Just now I started Evo, and when it came up, no folders were displayed;

Andre Klapper wrote:
> Please elaborate (small screenshot) what "no folders were displayed"
> exactly means,  Is the folder list pane there and empty? 

bg:

Yes. All the expected screen elements were present and visible,
*except* for the actual folders.

Called a friend who's an Evo user, and turned out it had happened to him
once - the arrow to the left of "On This Computer" at the
top of the pane had been flicked to its alternate, or "don't display"
position. Pretty sure I didn't ever click it, but you never know.

Lesson learned - I spent a lot of time digging around in preferences
and such, when I should have been paying more attention to the,
what I think of as the "visible mechanics" of the page.

andre:

> The list has public archives that you can browse:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list

bg:

Good to know - thanks for the tip.

Brewster

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[Evolution] Message saving format(s)?

[Brewster Gillett]

Evo 3.2.3 under Ubuntu 12.04

Suppose someone wishes to save a message to file as plain text,
rather than in "mbox" format?

I have gone through every single major tab on Evo. I have read through
the help headings from top to bottom. Nowhere can I locate any option
setting that will wire around this apparently mandatory format setting
in the latest version to which I was just upgraded by my Ubuntu
upgrade. 

Does anyone know how to override this?

Thank you,


Brewster
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[Evolution] error messages

[Brewster Gillett]

Ubuntu 12.04   Evo 3.2.3

I have read through "HELP" and accessed all the links, as well as done
web searches, and cannot locate a list or table of commonly issued
error messages and their translations for Evo. Is it because there are
so many? 

Thanks,

Brewster
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[Evolution] Need help identifying files

[Brewster Gillett]

One of our Ubuntu 12.04 (64-bit) boxes (my wife's) has apparently
experienced a corrupted database file - when she tries to retrieve
mail from Evo 3.2.3, she gets the messages:  

ERROR WHILE GENERATING MESSAGE LIST

DATABASE DISK IMAGE IS MALFORMED.

I have done considerable research, to the extent of finding some blog
posts which deliver what looks like a workable fix. But the problem
I have now is that everything I have found relates to versions earlier
than what we have, and to 32-bit versions, in which the name of the db
is something different than what it apparently is in the newer version.

I have verified that the file in question, folders.db, is present
in 32-bit versions, but does not show up in our 64-bit versions.
Clearly Evo has changed the name, and probably the location as well,
because all the paths are definitely different. For example, rather than
the former practice of the ".evolution" directory appearing directly
under "/home/[user]", it's now under /home/[user]/.local/share,and as
"evolution", not as ".evolution".But in all the dicking
around I've had to do in Evo, I've yet to locate any usable reference
as to what Evo names its internals, and where it puts them.
Does anyone know what the name is for the primary folder database file
in 3.2.3 under 64-bit 12.04? Better yet, can anyone point me to a
reference source that would disclose these kinds of internal structures?

Thanks,


Brewster
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[Evolution] Involuntary folder relocations

[Brewster Gillett]

Like probably many of you, I have a love-hate relationship with Evo, or
maybe it's an armed truce :-) It's a very capable and comprehensive
program, but it does seem to love to put a stick in your spokes when you
least expect it.  Evolution 3.2.3 under Ubuntu 12.04.

Evo has decided, not based AFAIK on any action(s) I took, to move some
of my folders to entirely different and random spots, and random orders,
in the folder tree. This would be largely unobjectionable if it would
allow me to move them all back where they belong, but it does not.

I will try to lay out a comprehensive description - bear with me.

EXAMPLE:

The folder "Forms-l", originally located under "On This Computer",
originally had two sub-folders situated under it in the tree; 
"F-L vetting", and "F-Larchives". For arcane reasons of its own, Evo
has moved all three and rearranged them, so that now "Forms-l" and
"FL vetting" are resting under "Health", and "FLarchives", mirable
dictu, still occupies its traditional place just under "Forms-l".

So I'm thinking, I will just move them back where they belong.
Not so fast, sez Evo. Here's the sequence I performed:

(1) Moving "FL vetting" back under "Forms-l".

* highlight "FL vetting"
* click FOLDER 
* click MOVE FOLDER TO...
* highlight "Forms-l"
* click "Move"

And it worked. "Forms-l" now shows its two subfolders under it where
they belong. Now to move "Forms-l" back to where *it* belongs:

* highlight "Forms-l"
* click FOLDER 
* click MOVE FOLDER TO...
* highlight "On This Computer"
* click "Move"

And nothing happens - no move takes place, *AND* I get the yellow bar
at the top of the screen which usually denotes some form of error
message, but with nothing in it except the "Dismiss" block.

I considered the possibility that Evo is lumbered with a bug which does
not allow it to "MOVE" folders which have subfolders. But testing has
shown that unlikely, because it is also refusing to move folders with
*no* subs under them.

BTW the affected folders also have filter rules applied to them, so
naturally the filter rules subroutine is not finding them, meaning that
until I solve this, I have to hunt or do search through "Inbox" to
get their traffic.

I've looked through what FAQs I could find, and did not find this
problem addressed. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,



Brewster
-- 
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they believe three things that aren't true.

First, they believe they know current conditions (wants, desires, 
hopes, capabilities, resources). In other words, that they know the 
exact and entire present state of the community they are planning for.

Second, they believe they know where the community ought to go. 
That is, that they know what the future ought to be.

Third, they believe they are capable of creating the future they want.

None of those things is more than an illusion.

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Re: [Evolution] Involuntary folder relocations

[Brewster Gillett]

> Brewster Gillett wrote:
> > Like probably many of you, I have a love-hate relationship with Evo, 

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> Not I, no hate at all.

bg:

Perhaps that's too strong a term. But it's difficult to feel warm
and fuzzy about a program that, in the "CONTACTS", invites you to
populate a "SORT-BY" field, ("File under") and then completely ignores
it. In every version of Evo going back quite a few, the Contacts list
pops up sorted on *first* name; I have inquired about this, and searched
the FAQs, and never found an answer. It strains credulity for me to
believe that nobody else has ever noticed, or commented, on that
particular Evo peccadillo. Does nobody *use* the Contacts list?

bg:[earlier]

> > , but it does seem to love to put a stick in your spokes when you
> > least expect it.  Evolution 3.2.3 under Ubuntu 12.04.

Adam:

> In general it seems that software packaged with Ubuntu is quite thorny.

bg:

I'm unclear on how that relates to the problem I've described...
... are you suggesting that the 3.2.3. Evo shipped with Ubuntu is
somehow different from the one shipped with, say, Red Hat?


> bg:[earlier]

> > Evo has decided, not based AFAIK on any action(s) I took, to move some
> > of my folders to entirely different and random spots, and random orders,
> > in the folder tree.

Adam:

> Yeah I really doubt that.

bg:

Strictly in the sense of causation, in that, yes, I may have made some
odd or untoward clicks in inappropriate places whilst navigating around,
perhaps. As to the reality of the condition now manifesting, that is not
subject to any doubt whatsoever.

bg:[earlier]

> > I will try to lay out a comprehensive description - bear with me.


Adam:

> I've seen some occasional oddities with IMAP folder moves - but then who
> knows who to blame...  I do not recall every seeing an issue with local
> "On this computer" folders.

bg:

This has cropped up a time or two in previous versions, where it didn't
go away until the next upgrade. Perhaps I should be looking into finding
a version later than 3.2.3 that will function under 12.04?

I have never used IMAP, so that isn't an issue.

It just strikes me as very odd that Evo let me move that subfolder from
its inappropriate placement back to where it belongs, but will not allow
the primary folder to be moved back to the "top" - and is compounding
the felony by throwing up an "error" window with nothing written in it.

Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Feedback/mardorf

[Brewster Gillett]

On Sat, 2013-06-22 at 11:19 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> FWIW we had a blackout while I was writing this mail and Evolution recovered 
> it :).

bg:

FYI there's this gadget called an uninterruptible power supply, widely
available for as little as under fifty bucks, which can get you through
many blackouts *without* any concerns about recoveries. Here's just one
of the 32 million hits you get if you use the search term
"uninterruptible power supply" in your search engine...

<http://www.newegg.com/UPS/SubCategory/ID-72>


Brewster
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***
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 perhaps my employer, has over me is very much less than that which
 the smallest functionary possesses who wields the coercive power of
 the state, and on whose discretion it depends whether and how I 
 am to be allowed to live or to work."

F.A. Hayek, The Road to Serfdom; 1944
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[Evolution] Moving folders

[Brewster Gillett]

I have posted this query once or twice before, and it apparently hit the
list when nobody who knew anything about the problem was currently
reading it. Since those unproductive attempts, I have invested probably
eight or ten hours in scouring the Web for references to this problem,
and cannot find any mention of it. It strains credulity to suppose that
I am the only user that's ever experienced this, but maybe it's so.

Ubuntu 12.04,  Evolution 3.2.3,  Using Evo for at least 7 years, 
about 9000 msgs currently in all folders

I have somehow, and no, I have no idea whether it was an action I
precipitated or not, though I *am* a terrible typist , had some of my
folders involuntarily moved to rest under other folders, in an
apparently random selection. There they stay, because Evo is not letting
me move them back to where they belong. All of the relocated folders in
question were originally located at the "top" level; in other words,
under "On This Computer", in Evo's parlance. The program refuses to move
them back to that level, and worse, gives no clue as to why, beyond a
yellow bar at the top, with a little grey box at the far right
containing the word "Dismiss".

Evo will let me move these folders anywhere I wish, provided I move them
to live *under* some other "top-level" folder. But I cannot move them to
where they belong, which is on the same "top" level as all the other
primary folders in use.

Which by the way currently number some 23 over and above the default
folders like Inbox and Sent and Trash. Some of those folders do have
intentionally-created  subfolders, usually just one or two, but in one
case a fluctuating population of six to nine which changes at need.

But a few of those now have interlopers - folders which were formerly on
their level, but have now unaccountably and randomly ended up as
somebody's subfolder. Of course that messes up the filter rules, and
hides those folders from the user, so it would be nice to fix it.

A problem which may be related is that intermittently, with no
discernible pattern, Evo refuses to move a given mail message from one
folder to another. Sometimes it will do it, sometimes it won't. And
there's no readily apparent identification of what makes the
distinction. 

So what's up with these move problems? Am I expecting Evo to store 
too large a volume of messages? Am I overlooking some switch in the
setup which might be influencing this? Am I just SOL?

Thanks in advance,

Brewster
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interview, Hare said, "I believe it (the Constitution) says 'life, 
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Re: [Evolution] Moving folders/patryk

[Brewster Gillett]

bg:
> [cut]
> > Ubuntu 12.04,  Evolution 3.2.3,  Using Evo for at least 7 years, 
> > about 9000 msgs currently in all folders

> [cut]
> > Evo will let me move these folders anywhere I wish, provided I move them
> > to live *under* some other "top-level" folder. But I cannot move them to
> > where they belong, which is on the same "top" level as all the other
> > primary folders in use.

 Patryk Benderz wrote:

>   I am not sure if this is same case, but I have tested this, and
> evolution crashes when I try drag&drop folder to any place.

bg:

Didn't crash when I tried drag & drop, but didn't move them, either.

Patryk:
 
>  I have
> created bug report for this[1] on launchpad. Should I do the same on
> bugzilla?

bg:

It probably wood be a good idea for anything which crashes the system.

>   However when i right click on this folder and use option 'Move folder
> to...' than it works fine. Did you tried second method?

bg:

Yes, I've tried all three ways. One of the tries lost a folder
completely and I still haven't been able to find out where Evo sent it.

But for what it's worth, I finally got creative, and instead of beating
my head against a wall trying to get Evo to do something it plainly was
not capable of doing, I sought a workaround. I moved all the subfolders
under Temp, the contents of the top folders to temporary names, then
set up the originals as if they were new, moved the temp messages back
into them, and the Temp-parked subfolders back under their proper new
main folders, so except for that missing one, it's all fixed. I hope :-)

One of these days I'll try posting again about Evo's Contacts section
being unwilling to follow its own sorting instructions :-)

Thanks again for trying to help.

Brewster
-- 
***
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 opposing philosophies which coexist in any historical period, and
 every philosophy engages, implicitly or explicitly, in controversy
 with its opponents. Philosophy may seek truth, but it seeks it in
 an adversarial as well as in an investigative manner."

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[Evolution] Trouble with Contacts

[Brewster Gillett]

Ubuntu 12.04,  Evolution 3.2.3

In the past, I have had existing Contacts Lists just disappear from the
Contacts screen altogether. I tried to build a new one from scratch
tonight to replace one of them, and when I was finished entering all the
names and email addresses, and clicked on "OK", this is what I got:

A popup window containing the following:
---
Error adding list
Cannot add contact: db error
0x86f7
(DB_PAGE_NOTFOUND:
Requested page not found)
---

So, does anyone know what's causing this, and how to fix it?

Is this maybe a permissions issue, so I should run chmod on the
entire Evo tree, or something?


Thanks,


Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] Cursor positioning on replies/Reeke

[Brewster Gillett]

On Mon, 2014-01-13 at 11:25 -0500, George Reeke wrote:
> Re: Evolution 2.32.3 on RedHat RHEL 6.5 (64-bit).
> Everything works fine except I notice when I open a reply window,
> the cursor sits at the upper left of the window as it should
> (for top-reply used with everything but these lists), 

bg:

The reason that almost every email program places the cursor at the
beginning of the backquote is probably one of the most widely
misunderstood phenomena on the Net. It is placed there because the
idea is to allow the replier to scroll down through the backquote,
snipping out everything but the couple-three lines relevant to their
reply, then launching their reply *below* that. But generations of newer
users of email have assumed, wrongly, that it is encouraging them
to simply begin their reply, ignoring the backquote, and that is how we
ended up with the ugly travesty that is top-posting.

Brewster
(user of email since 1981)

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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
 Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? 
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[Evolution] Moving messages between folders

[Brewster Gillett]

There seems to be a problem with this, and what's nuts about it is that
the problem is highly intermittent - sometimes it happens, and sometimes
it doesn't, and there does not appear to be any identifiable reason as
to which. Sometimes when I drag and drop (or right-click and tap "MOVE"
- it does'nt matter what choice I pick) I get the following in a yellow
box at the top of the page:

---
Error while moving messages into folders [FOLDER NAME]

Cannot transfer message to destination folder: no such file or
directory.
---

Of course in every case I have observed, there *is* in fact such a
folder. 

If this is covered in a FAQ somewhere I haven't been able to find it.

Has anyone else encountered this, and is there a solution?

Thanks,


Brewster
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***
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 no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
 and your own common sense."
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Re: [Evolution] Moving messages between folders

[Brewster Gillett]

On Thu, 2015-03-26 at 09:22 +, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > 
> > ---
> > Error while moving messages into folders [FOLDER NAME]
> > 
> > Cannot transfer message to destination folder: no such file or
> > directory.
> > ---
> > 

> You need to give us more information.  Like Evolution version, account
> type (imap, pop, ews, local).  

bg:

Sorry for the oversight. Evo 3.2.3 under Ubuntu 12.04, POP.

pete:

> It would also be helpful to get the output when the error occurs if 
> you turn on the debugging info for that account type.

bg:

Of course, now I'll have to wait until it flashes that error again,
because true to form, the one it wouldn't move last night moved just
fine this morning with no argument :-)

Thanks,


Brewster 
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[Evolution] moving folders

[Brewster Gillett]

Using Ubuntu's 12.04 Debian (their 14.04 has broken Raid Level 1,
which I use, so I'm holding off until I'm sure it's fixed) and Evolution
3.2.3.

I have encountered considerable difficulty over time with the management
of both primary and subsidiary mail folders. Every so often one of them
will unaccountably relocate itself to a position *under* another folder,
and when I attempt to move it back to where it belongs (usually under
the top, or "ON THIS COMPUTER" level) I invariably am greeted with a
fairly uninformative yellow-overlaid popup across the top that refuses
to perform the action.

What am I missing?

I can sometimes fix it the long way around, by moving the contents to a
temp folder, deleting the relocated one, recreating it where I want it
to be located, than copying the contents back in. But now and then I get
the same sort of refusal when I attempt to do a contents copy.

???

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] (no subject)

[Brewster Gillett]

On Sat, 2015-08-15 at 00:03 -0400, Kim Strachan wrote:

bg:

Wrote, at 12:03 AM, no subject, no text body - posting while plastered?

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] evolution-list Digest, Vol 129, Issue 10

[Brewster Gillett]

On Fri, 2016-04-15 at 13:27 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:


> However as I've said before, the justification for using Digest mode on
> lists has virtually disappeared. If at all possible people should avoid
> it. It belongs to the days of slow dial-up modems. I'm not saying we
> should eliminate it as there may be people who really do need it, but
> they are at most a very small minority.
> 
> poc


bg:

Thank you for that concise and penetrating observation, Patrick. I've
saved it to my file
of sig-quotes :-)

For those who might not be fully aware, Digest encourages three of the
most obnoxious
amongst clueless e-list behaviours;  top-posting,  failure to edit
backquote, and failure
to edit subject line to match the backquote's subject. Digest mode
should have been strangled
in its crib. I have asked many Digest users to supply a justification
for their use, and when
presented with the obvious counterarguments which *any* of those
justifications are heir to, they 
have no response beyond gaping like a gaffed grouper :-)


Brewster

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 while others take five minutes."

FROM THE INTRODUCTION
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Re: [Evolution] evolution-list Digest, Vol 135, Issue 12

[Brewster Gillett]

On Mon, 2016-10-10 at 12:18 -0700, Graham wrote:
> Hi
> 
> 
> I updated to evolution-3.22.1-1-x86_6 this morning and I could not
> type in the reply window when I tried to reply to messages. 
> I reverted back to evolution-3.22.0+18+g65ec324-1 and I can reply
> without issue.
> 
> 
> I'm running on Arch linux.

bg:

You're running on empty, as far as knowing how to use a discussion
e-list.
Did you not read the plain instruction on the email you got, reproduced
following?

> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of evolution-list digest..."


What part of that did you fail to understand?

The listbot went on to admonish,


> Important: do NOT reply directly to this digest. If you wish to reply 
> to a component message, use your mailer's facility for this. In Evolution:
> right-click and select from the pop-up menu, or use the drop-down menu at
> the top of each message if available.



and apparently you blew right past that, as well, since you left the
entire contents of the Digest
(20-some-K) trailing along below your top-posted message like a ghastly
dingleberry.

E-lists tend to work better for everyone if their participants bother to
pay attention
to just a few simple details.

The amusing part is, apparently about two minutes after you sen it, you
rethought it and
sent it right , launching a new thread.  :-)
So perhaps congratulations are in order after all.

Brewster
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
 Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? 
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Re: [Evolution] evolution-list Digest, Vol 140, Issue 6

[Brewster Gillett]

On Mon, 2017-03-13 at 10:04 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> On Mon, 2017-03-13 at 10:15 +0100, Milan Crha wrote:
> > On Sat, 2017-03-11 at 11:26 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > > Since you say you are new to mailing lists
> > 
> > Hi,
> > I thought the default for the list is to not use the digest, thus the
> > new subscribers receive messages separately, unless they change it for
> > whatever reason. I think I heard so several months ago, but I can be
> > wrong.
> 
> It is the default (if it wasn't we'd be having a lot more of these).
> The OP must have changed it.
> 
> poc


bg:

"Digest" should have been strangled in its crib. Its only discernible
trait is its ability to 
encourage clueless list behaviours, thereby annoying the clueful :-)

But seriously, folks; on quite a few listservs over quite a few years, I
have implored 
"Digest" users to explain to me what advantages they feel it confers on
them, and so far
n0t a single one of them has ever come up with anything even remotely
plausible, beyond
the questionable ability to live in denial about how many email messages
they're getting

Brewster
-- 
***
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 of excess tax receipts, the Treasury Building will explode and release
 its contents into the atmosphere, forming  an immense cloud of money...
 If the wind were to shift, the money could fall back to Earth, where 
 some of it could, conceivably, wind up -- this is referred to in 
 top-secret government documents as 'The Doomsday Scenario' -- back
 in the hands of taxpayers."

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Re: [Evolution] Proposal: to eliminate the digest option for the Evolution mailing list

[Brewster Gillett]

>  Pete Biggs wrote:
> > So filter them into a different folder so they don't clutter your
> > inbox. I am a member of numerous mailing lists - not a single one
> > appears in my inbox, they all end up in their own folder. (For
> > efficiency, I do it on my server, but it's no different to doing it
> > within Evolution.)
> > 
> > P.



George Reeke wrote:

> Then I have to look in all those other folders to see if something has
> arrived.  The way I do it, I just see it in my one inbox when it comes
> (not often).  [I am quite familiar with this type of filtering and use
> it for other purposes, but for me it is the wrong solution for lists
> that I don't want to check often.]
> GNR


Brewster replies:

George, I'm not sure you're fully utilizing Evolution's capabilities.
When I fire up Evolution, I see my 
entire list of folders, first thing. So I don't understand your
phraseology "look in all those other folders
to see if something has arrived".  I have dozens of folders, and every
time I download my latest 
email, any folder that has new arrivals  is clearly flagged, including
the *number* of new messages
that just hit that folder.  So I don't have to "look in all those other
folders" ; all I have to do is
scan the list to see which ones might have new traffic.

So for example, if I fetch my current traffic, and my "Evolution" folder
shows three new 
messages, and I'm too busy to tend to them at the moment, I just ignore
them; every subsequent
time I open Evolution, that reminder will still be there. 

I have long observed that filters and folders seem to be widely
underused, and that's really
a shame. They can save us untold wasted minutes and hours if properly
set up. And their
intelligent use pretty much obviates any perceived "advantages" to
"Digest" mode.

Brewster

-- 
***
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 biscuits. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar and a Socialist."

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Re: [Evolution] Proposal: to eliminate the digest option for the Evolution mailing list

[Brewster Gillett]

On Sun, 2017-03-19 at 12:28 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> Off-topic:
> 
> Something about _real issues_, one issue by it's nature affects
> Evolution, too.
> 
> An issue for the iOS MUA is that it seems not to support plain text,
> instead it does enforce multipart and the plain text of the multipart
> is without automatic line breaks. IIRC all web interfaces, at least
> Yahoo/Rocketmail, Alice/O2, Zoho and Mail.com provide at least a plain
> text option. I don't know if they automatically break lines.
> 
> At least for the iPad, the quoting style could be tricky. By default
> it's _not_


bg:

I've found the iPad to work fine for quoting style, it just requires
somewhat different strokes 
than Evolution. We spent a month in Europe a while back, and had no
trouble answering
emails on the iPads.  Plus we could read our hometown newspaper every
day with Safari :-)

Even further off-topic, I have been very impressed with Apple's support;
my iPad's hardware
recently entered a failure mode (the "HOME" button  stopped working) and
Apple had a solution
in about 30 seconds, with a software construct that pops a virtual
"HOME" button on the screen
that works exactly like the defunct physical one did. They didn't have
to be that creative - they
could have just said, "Sorry, no hope" and induced me to buy a
replacement iPad. That no doubt
would have been MicroSoft's approach :-) The one criticism I might level
is that that trick was
not covered, as far as I could find, anywhere in any of the manuals to
which I have access.

But that's a minor quibble, and it could well be there and I just didn't
find it.


Brewster

-- 

***
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[Evolution] moving addresses from place to place?

[Brewster Gillett]

I am encountering a lot of roadblocks when it comes to relocating email
addresses. For reasons that do not seem to be covered in the help docs,
I can tap "COPY" in one spot, (example - the "cc:" field of a
previously sent message) for a batch of addresses, then when I ask for
"PASTE" somewhere else nothing happens. For example - picking up an
entire field of some 20 addresses from a previously sent message,
smacking "COPY", then attempting to "PASTE" them into a new message,
not necessarily into the same field.

I am not using the "CONTACTS" facility, because in past attempts I have
found it to be significantly inadequate in some respects like the
inability to sort a contact list alphabetically. And I've yet to
discover how to import a CSV file of email addresses into the
"CONTACTS" section. If I could just do that one thing it would go a
long way towards solving my problems.  

Ideas?

Thanks,


Brewster
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[Evolution] editing members of a contact list

[Brewster Gillett]

Running EVO 3.38.4 under Fedora 33

I have scoured the help files accompanying the software, and those I
could find on the Web, and I cannot find the instructions for editing
the individual elements of a contact list. In other words, deleting
list members, or changing a list member's email address. Every manual
entry I can find stops before discussing that level of granularity.

Where can I find this?

Thanks,


Brewster Gillett

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[Evolution] Deleting individual address from a Contacts List

[Brewster Gillett]

Evo 3.38.4  under Fedora 33

WRT Contacts Lists, the Help page describes how to create a Contact List,
but contains nothing about how to edit the contents of that list. Right-
clicking on an individual entry in that list does not produce anything
productive. and what if someone's email address changes? What is the 
provision for *editing* an individual entry? Are we expected to resort to
the lamentably paleolithic expedient of deleting the entry and then adding
it back in?

Thanks, 

Brewster
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Re: [Evolution] Deleting individual address from a Contacts List

[Brewster Gillett]

On Mon, 2022-02-07 at 12:25 +0100, Milan Crha via evolution-list wrote:
>   Hi,
> I'd say there's nothing in the user documentation, because the editing
> is straightforward - you double click the contact list the same as any
> contact, which opens a dialog, where the list can be modified.
> > 
Thanks - it had been so long since I'd needed to modify a Contact List
that I'd forgotten the simple double-click entry to Edit mode. My bad!

Thanks,


Brewster

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Re: [Evolution] Reading emails and threading

[Brewster Gillett]

> On Sat, 2022-09-24 at 08:32 -0500, c. marlow wrote:
> > I am just curious to know, do any of ya'll read your emails in
> > threads? 
> > 
> > Does EVO even support this feature?
> > 
> > I tried threading once, for about 2 min, and it just seemed too
> > confusing for me. I think that I like reading each email separately. 

 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> It's probably decades since I last read emails *except* in threads, and
> of course Evolution does support that or I wouldn't use it.
> 
> Emails in threads are separate from each other, so I'm not sure what
> you mean by that last sentence.
> 
> poc

bg: 

Sounds to me like the user is confusing threads with Digest Mode; a concept
that is a trap for the untutored and should have been strangled in its crib:-)


Brewster


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Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022

[Brewster Gillett]

 Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list wrote:
> A quick and simple question: who is in position to decide to move this list
> to another mailing list, hosted elsewhere? There have been already a few
> propositions on this list for an alternative. Who is the "owner" of this
> list who can decide about the move?

bg:

Excellent question. I'll toss out this possibility:



We're using groups.io for a couple of the Mensa discussion lists I'm on.
Mostly indistinguishable from good ol' mailman. Don't know if there's
a cost involved, but I would be willing to contribute if we move there.

This "Discourse" is a poorly structured, excessively juvey and chirpy
construct which appears to present group interactions in an extremely
cumbersome fashion. And "badges", fer chrissake! Bohdges? We doan need no
steenkin' bohdges!

If we're stuck with Discourse, I'm gone. And open to replacement suggestions
for Linux MUAs other than Evo.

Brewster



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Re: [Evolution] New mailing list

[Brewster Gillett]

On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 19:09 +0200, Luna Jernberg via evolution-list wrote:
> Signed up

Me too.

Brewster



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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling

[Brewster Gillett]

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has
> changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities,
> including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a
> specific topic (Evo), but:
> 
> * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I
> haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some.

bg:

It's a low-level irritant. If the sender cares enough (most don't) 
or knows how to edit their headers (many can't) it can be worked around
easily enough. Those using Evo don't have the problem, obviously.
> 
POC:

> * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this
> would not please some people.

bg:

I'm subscribed to a pretty active Google Group, and AFAIK I was
never required to sign up with a Google account (and would not).


Brewster

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