RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay for all of those as a license, as always it will be horses for courses What about Microsoft Live Cheers Duncan On 20/08/2010, at 9:59 AM, Stephan Barr wrote: Super easy. Customers love it. -- MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England. Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 114 5409 96 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ** Stockport Council - providing over 600 different services to local people . More information on http://www.stockport.gov.uk/boost (free internet access is available at all Stockport libraries) This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act. If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.qu...@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently remove it from your system. Thank you. http://www.stockport.gov.uk **
Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: - Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com - SSL - AntiSpam, AntiVirus - Postini - 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.ukwrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... *Dave Wade* *0161 474 5456*** -- *From:* Paul Hutchings *Sent:* Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 *To:* MS-Exchange Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay for all of those as a license, as always it will be horses for courses What about Microsoft Live Cheers Duncan On 20/08/2010, at 9:59 AM, Stephan Barr wrote: Super easy. Customers love it. -- MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England. Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 114 5409 96 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ** Stockport Council - providing over 600 different services to local people . More information on http://www.stockport.gov.uk/boost (free internet access is available at all Stockport libraries) This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act. If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.qu...@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently remove it from your system. Thank you. http://www.stockport.gov.uk **
RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
If an org wants managed services then that's what they're going to have. First they compare price. Many of them roll with price as a motivator. When the sweet taste of price starts to sour they move to MS Services. Service is the key. I don't think Google has figured out that people don't want services and mush as they want service. As far as small orgs with a limited budget, It's really tough to beat SBS compared to managed services. When the mailbox count is down the price per goes up. At $20 plus per month for an MBX the ROI on an SBS server is pretty quick. M From: Dave Wade [mailto:dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:48 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 _ From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay for all of those as a license, as always it will be horses for courses What about Microsoft Live Cheers Duncan On 20/08/2010, at 9:59 AM, Stephan Barr wrote: Super easy. Customers love it. -- MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England. Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 114 5409 96 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ** Stockport Council - providing over 600 different services to local people . More information on http://www.stockport.gov.uk/boost (free internet access is available at all Stockport libraries) This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act. If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.qu...@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently remove it from your system. Thank you. http://www.stockport.gov.uk **
RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
Wow that's pretty steep for the service they provide... $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: * Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com * SSL * AntiSpam, AntiVirus * Postini * 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 _ From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay for all of those as a license, as always it will be horses for courses What about Microsoft Live Cheers Duncan On 20/08/2010, at 9:59 AM, Stephan Barr wrote: Super easy. Customers love it. -- MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England. Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 114 5409 96 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ** Stockport Council - providing over 600 different services to local people . More information on http://www.stockport.gov.uk/boost (free internet access is available at all Stockport libraries) This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act. If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.qu...@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently remove it from your system. Thank you. http://www.stockport.gov.uk http://www.stockport.gov.uk/ **
RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
I'm not sure it's outrageous tbh, considering with Exchange you have a CAL cost, an Antispam cost, an antivirus cost and (the expensive part) the costs of having someone take care of it - it's the last part that I expect is the issue for a lot of small businesses. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 17:57 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Wow that's pretty steep for the service they provide... $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: * Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com * SSL * AntiSpam, AntiVirus * Postini * 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay for all of those as a license, as always it will be horses for courses What about Microsoft Live Cheers Duncan On 20/08/2010, at 9:59 AM, Stephan Barr wrote: Super easy. Customers love it. -- MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England. Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 114 5409 96 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ** Stockport Council - providing over 600 different services to local people . More information on http://www.stockport.gov.uk/boost (free internet access is available at all Stockport libraries) This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any
RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
Well most of the quotes Ive had from services providers is more in the $20 to $25 range for starters. Even at that price I have dozen clients that have SBS on machines leased from Dell with the software on the lease too. Once theyre set up, setup correctly, very little maint is needed. I pop in remotely for a ½ hour every three months. If you do a plain jane setup theres nothing to manage, it just runs. Been doing it for years, no problems. From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:00 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Im not sure its outrageous tbh, considering with Exchange you have a CAL cost, an Antispam cost, an antivirus cost and (the expensive part) the costs of having someone take care of it its the last part that I expect is the issue for a lot of small businesses. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 17:57 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Wow thats pretty steep for the service they provide . $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: * Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com * SSL * AntiSpam, AntiVirus * Postini * 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 _ From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay for all of those as a license, as always it will be horses for courses What about Microsoft Live Cheers Duncan On 20/08/2010, at 9:59 AM, Stephan Barr wrote: Super easy. Customers love it. -- MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England. Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 114 5409 96 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by
RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
Oh I agree entirely on management, never did quite get why people see Exchange as needing that much day to day management - keywords setup correctly I imagine? Backups has always struck me as where most SMB's probably fall down. I deal with a remote office rather than clients but the biggest problem I have with backups isn't the tech, it's someone forgetting to put the tape in etc. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 18:08 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Well most of the quotes I've had from services providers is more in the $20 to $25 range for starters. Even at that price I have dozen clients that have SBS on machines leased from Dell with the software on the lease too. Once they're set up, setup correctly, very little maint is needed. I pop in remotely for a ½ hour every three months. If you do a plain jane setup there's nothing to manage, it just runs. Been doing it for years, no problems. From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:00 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I'm not sure it's outrageous tbh, considering with Exchange you have a CAL cost, an Antispam cost, an antivirus cost and (the expensive part) the costs of having someone take care of it - it's the last part that I expect is the issue for a lot of small businesses. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 17:57 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Wow that's pretty steep for the service they provide... $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: * Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com * SSL * AntiSpam, AntiVirus * Postini * 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for
R: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
I think it will really be the end of SBS as it is now (going to Aurora) GuidoElia HELPPC _ Da: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk] Inviato: sabato 21 agosto 2010 19.00 A: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Oggetto: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I'm not sure it's outrageous tbh, considering with Exchange you have a CAL cost, an Antispam cost, an antivirus cost and (the expensive part) the costs of having someone take care of it - it's the last part that I expect is the issue for a lot of small businesses. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 17:57 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Wow that's pretty steep for the service they provide... $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: * Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com * SSL * AntiSpam, AntiVirus * Postini * 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 _ From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay for all of those as a license, as always it will be horses for courses What about Microsoft Live Cheers Duncan On 20/08/2010, at 9:59 AM, Stephan Barr wrote: Super easy. Customers love it. -- MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England. Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 114 5409 96 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ** Stockport Council - providing over 600 different services to local people . More information on http://www.stockport.gov.uk/boost
R: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
Maintenance is backup and eventual DR restore and having also a DC. I think the future of Small businness will be only member servers for storage. GuidoElia HELPPC _ Da: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Inviato: sabato 21 agosto 2010 19.08 A: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Oggetto: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Well most of the quotes I've had from services providers is more in the $20 to $25 range for starters. Even at that price I have dozen clients that have SBS on machines leased from Dell with the software on the lease too. Once they're set up, setup correctly, very little maint is needed. I pop in remotely for a ½ hour every three months. If you do a plain jane setup there's nothing to manage, it just runs. Been doing it for years, no problems. From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:00 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I'm not sure it's outrageous tbh, considering with Exchange you have a CAL cost, an Antispam cost, an antivirus cost and (the expensive part) the costs of having someone take care of it - it's the last part that I expect is the issue for a lot of small businesses. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 17:57 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Wow that's pretty steep for the service they provide... $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: * Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com * SSL * AntiSpam, AntiVirus * Postini * 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 _ From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay for all of those as a license, as always it will be horses for courses What about Microsoft Live Cheers Duncan On 20/08/2010, at 9:59 AM, Stephan
RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
Its that $ sign thats the issue in the UK! The £/$ ratio seems to fluctuate between almost 1 to 1 to nearly 2 - 1... Dave Wade Business Services I.C.T. 0161 474 5456 From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk] Sent: 21 August 2010 18:00 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I'm not sure it's outrageous tbh, considering with Exchange you have a CAL cost, an Antispam cost, an antivirus cost and (the expensive part) the costs of having someone take care of it - it's the last part that I expect is the issue for a lot of small businesses. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 17:57 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Wow that's pretty steep for the service they provide... $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: * Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com * SSL * AntiSpam, AntiVirus * Postini * 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do different things and suit different needs. Office with half a dozen people and no real IT need or infrastructure and I think I'd find it hard to see past Google Apps or Hosted Exchange, even scaled up to a couple dozen staff and a single server I'm not sure Exchange would be first choice simply because if nothing else you do need to back it up and someone needs to ensure that happens. On the other hand, if you have a few dozen or a few hundred users and have even a modest investment in things like a SAN or vmware and decent connectivity and someone with IT knowledge then I'm not sure it's so easy a decision. -Original Message- From: Jason Gurtz [mailto:jasongu...@npumail.com] Sent: 20 August 2010 13:23 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Would definitely be interested in some details as far as client size, feature usage (shared calendars, contacts, etc...), and the technical level of the users. It seems from past things I've read, the service is better suited to companies with a greater proportion of more savvy users. Jason -Original Message- From: Stephan Barr [mailto:stephanbarr.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 19:14 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maybe you haven't used it recently. Groups do not count as email addresses and meet the need of distribution lists and shared boxes. definitely different cost model. Per each client they will save thousands per year. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Duncan Turnbull dun...@e-simple.co.nz wrote: There is a different cost model here, and some limitations but various upsides One big issue I see is if you have lots of shared mailboxes e.g. for client projects or other reasons then you have to pay
RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
I think SBS has a good 2 to 3 years for most SMB's, perhaps longer. 90% of my clients had never heard of the cloud, understand hosted apps vs in house apps, nor do most care. Its those monthly or quarterly sit downs where we explain these things that our clients take any interest other than running their businesses. Its my job to educate them on how their business can use technology to complete their business goals either more cost effectively or better than the competition. Some don't care, some do. For that reason I don't think there is going to be this overnight shift to the cloud, it will happen but not as fast as the companies out there selling it are making it appear. Heck I have customers that wont upgrade their 2000 server running old apps, simply because client doesn't want to pay for upgrades or maintenance. Others don't like the idea of their data being out of their hands, some are seasoned individuals who have always done things one way and don't want to change. Most SMB's do what they do well and stick to it, even when change may mean better, healthier, more profitable businesses. Its human nature, and while I would love to switch them, if MY client says No..well then they are paying..they get what they want; but not because they don't know the options. Don't get me wrong, we have a good number of clients interested in virtualizing their infrastructure and moving it into a hosted environment or dropping what they have when it needs replacement and embracing the next level of tech, but because we give them a business value, we offer more service, we manage their environment in a way they didn't have before and that gives them a business advantage, not because its tech. ...it has awhile to prove itself before the majority just do it because everyone else is. Greg From: HELP_PC [mailto:g...@enter.it] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:19 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: R: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maintenance is backup and eventual DR restore and having also a DC. I think the future of Small businness will be only member servers for storage. GuidoElia HELPPC Da: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Inviato: sabato 21 agosto 2010 19.08 A: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Oggetto: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Well most of the quotes I've had from services providers is more in the $20 to $25 range for starters. Even at that price I have dozen clients that have SBS on machines leased from Dell with the software on the lease too. Once they're set up, setup correctly, very little maint is needed. I pop in remotely for a ½ hour every three months. If you do a plain jane setup there's nothing to manage, it just runs. Been doing it for years, no problems. From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:00 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I'm not sure it's outrageous tbh, considering with Exchange you have a CAL cost, an Antispam cost, an antivirus cost and (the expensive part) the costs of having someone take care of it - it's the last part that I expect is the issue for a lot of small businesses. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 17:57 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Wow that's pretty steep for the service they provide... $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: * Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.commailto:your.n...@yourdomainname.com * SSL * AntiSpam, AntiVirus * Postini * 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.ukmailto:dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially given the uncertainty in pricing given we work in Sterling... Dave Wade 0161 474 5456 From: Paul Hutchings Sent: Fri 20/08/2010 17:13 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I've never really seen it as Google vs. Exchange tbh, I think both do
RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week.
Greg, It been a while since I worked in in the wild , but I remember one customer who wanted a new system insisting that they were not going to use a customized package, because some details of their business processes might leak out to other users of the package. Dave Wade From: greg.swe...@actsconsulting.net Sent: Sat 21/08/2010 21:50 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I think SBS has a good 2 to 3 years for most SMB's, perhaps longer. 90% of my clients had never heard of the cloud, understand hosted apps vs in house apps, nor do most care. Its those monthly or quarterly sit downs where we explain these things that our clients take any interest other than running their businesses. Its my job to educate them on how their business can use technology to complete their business goals either more cost effectively or better than the competition. Some don't care, some do. For that reason I don't think there is going to be this overnight shift to the cloud, it will happen but not as fast as the companies out there selling it are making it appear. Heck I have customers that wont upgrade their 2000 server running old apps, simply because client doesn't want to pay for upgrades or maintenance. Others don't like the idea of their data being out of their hands, some are seasoned individuals who have always done things one way and don't want to change. Most SMB's do what they do well and stick to it, even when change may mean better, healthier, more profitable businesses. Its human nature, and while I would love to switch them, if MY client says No..well then they are paying..they get what they want; but not because they don't know the options. Don't get me wrong, we have a good number of clients interested in virtualizing their infrastructure and moving it into a hosted environment or dropping what they have when it needs replacement and embracing the next level of tech, but because we give them a business value, we offer more service, we manage their environment in a way they didn't have before and that gives them a business advantage, not because its tech. .it has awhile to prove itself before the majority just do it because everyone else is. Greg From: HELP_PC [mailto:g...@enter.it] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:19 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: R: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Maintenance is backup and eventual DR restore and having also a DC. I think the future of Small businness will be only member servers for storage. GuidoElia HELPPC Da: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Inviato: sabato 21 agosto 2010 19.08 A: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Oggetto: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Well most of the quotes I've had from services providers is more in the $20 to $25 range for starters. Even at that price I have dozen clients that have SBS on machines leased from Dell with the software on the lease too. Once they're set up, setup correctly, very little maint is needed. I pop in remotely for a ½ hour every three months. If you do a plain jane setup there's nothing to manage, it just runs. Been doing it for years, no problems. From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:00 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. I'm not sure it's outrageous tbh, considering with Exchange you have a CAL cost, an Antispam cost, an antivirus cost and (the expensive part) the costs of having someone take care of it - it's the last part that I expect is the issue for a lot of small businesses. From: Matt Moore [mailto:mattmoore...@hotmail.com] Sent: 21 August 2010 17:57 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Wow that's pretty steep for the service they provide... $50 a seat, really From: stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org [mailto:stephan.b...@bdtechnology.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Barr Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Re: Exchange is history?: Moved two clients to GoogleApps this week. Goggle Apps cost $50 per seat, per email address, per year. There are no other costs. For the $50 here's a short list of what you get: Vanity email address / your.n...@yourdomainname.com SSL AntiSpam, AntiVirus Postini 25GB of storage per email address On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Dave Wade dave.w...@stockport.gov.uk wrote: Paul, I am a Radio Ham and one of the guys I chat to works in a small (about 25 staff) organization, and has just upgraded his system to Windows/2008r2 and Exchange 2010. When I expressed suprise that he wasn't out sourcing to Google apps or some thing of that ilk he said when costed over 4 years it looked very expensive, especially
