[expert] Re: Whoa there...

[T. Ribbrock]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 01:07:12AM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:29:16 +0200:
> > Linux companies are a necessary evil in my eyes. They're needed to
> > help prevent monopolies from drowning the software world in
> > proprietary lock-ins, as unfortunately, you need money for that.
> > But they're not the essence of the movement in my opinion.
> > They also provide convenience, something I have appreciated in the
> > past and still do appreciate.
> 
> You seem to forget some of the essential parts. What about the Open
> Source projects which are sponsored by Linux companies? You may ask
> yourself how far Linux would have evolved was it not that the main
> leaders (Linus et al) were sponsored by companies. Linus is a good
> example. He said Bye to Transmeta and stated explicitely that he
> appreciated the way Transmeta did not force him to work for his pay but
> let him as much time for Linux as he wanted/needed.
> 
[several examples for companies helping]
> 
> Without the companies backing them up many developers of the Linux
> community would have to work on other stuff to earn their pay and so the
> projects they work for would have been delayed or not possible at all.

I concede the point that those companies have helped greatly. However,
I see to aspects: Some projects, as you say, would have been delayed -
but nonetheless, they would still have happened, just slower. As for
the projects that wouldn't have been possible: Correct me, if I'm
wrong, but I think many of those included stuff, where proprietary
things were involved - stuff, that had to be done from business to
business. That's another aspect of what I mean with necessary evil.
You're right that it couldn't have been done without them, but I still
think it's a pity that it has to be that way.
On the other hand, seeing that other projects (e.g. OpenBSD) can
thrive without all those companies involved, there seem to be other
ways as well.


> > On the other hand, with business comes vested interests and efforts to
> > influence the whole thing, to use, and maybe even ab-use it
> > (Caldera/SCO, anyone?).
> 
> Sure, but why do you name just the most commercial? Why do you mix up
> Mandrake with other companies which always had a straight commercial
> poin of view?

I was using Caldera/SCO as an example for the extreme this *can* lead
to. It was not my intention to suggest that Mandrake (or even Red Hat
or SuSE) are in that league, and I sure hope they will never be. But
seeing those extremes does make me wary.

 
> > Till then, it's the download version for me, knowing,
> > that Mandrake at least still gets some money out of it.
> 
> Nobody denies you that. How could anybody? Download versions have been
> free (as in free beer) all the time.

 I always wondered why of all words "free" is one that's defined so
poorly in the English language, while that language can be so subtle
otherwise. Amazing. :-)


> What you are saying is, now that the download version is polluted with
> ads you can use it without having a moral obligation to pay something
> for it, be it money or be it your time and talents.
> 
> And this is IMHO at least debatable.

See, I was afraid someone would do what you're doing here: You're
turning my argument around by 180 degrees. I'm *not* preferring the
download version because it still generates revenue for Mandrake while
being cheaper for me. If you think that, I don't think you've read my
previous mail well enough. I using the download version, because I
*refuse* to pay for the boxed version the way Mandrake is planning to
release it (i.e. with third party advertising). I even suggested an
alternative: Release a fully ad-free version for 10% extra and watch
me buying it... :-) If there wasn't a download version, I'd simply not
use Mandrake in this case, simple as that. But the download version
exists and the product is good enough, so I use it. This is just my
way of telling Mandrake that they *can* have more money from me, just
not this way.

Regards,

Thomas
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

[expert] Thin clients / SunRay

[Guy Van Sanden]

I was wondering something, I have worked as a Solaris admin for 6
months, and where I worked we had sunray thin clients.

Now, I know that you can do something similar with Linux, using diskless
PC's that boot from floppy.

But is that kind of special hardware also available for Linux (they
offer more advantages than PC's, including lack of noise)?  Can Sunrays
work with Linux?

I would be cool to be able to set up a similar invironment using Linux
and free software, I bet it could be done at a fraction of the Sun
price.

I'm also interested in this as a solution for high-schools, which now
use an expensive and impossible to maintain PC/Windows environment.

Kind regards

Guy 


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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Wolfgang Bornath]

T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:58:59 +0200:

> the projects that wouldn't have been possible: Correct me, if I'm
> wrong, but I think many of those included stuff, where proprietary
> things were involved - stuff, that had to be done from business to
> business. That's another aspect of what I mean with necessary evil.

I did not mean such that involved proprietary stuff. I meant projects
which involve a lot of time and engagement. If there were only people
doing it in their spare time while going to a 9 to 5 job every day these
projects wouldn't even have started because of lack of time.

> On the other hand, seeing that other projects (e.g. OpenBSD) can
> thrive without all those companies involved, there seem to be other
> ways as well.

Are you sure that none of the developers are sponsored by a company?
Now there is Debian, a fully non-commercial thing. And all Debian
developers are doing full time jobs to earn their living and do the
Debian stuff in their spare time, right?

It's the same thing as it is with arts. Some things can only be produced
and maintained with the help of somebody. Nothing wrong with that. The
only important question is: How much influence has the money?

> I was using Caldera/SCO as an example for the extreme this *can* lead
> to. It was not my intention to suggest that Mandrake (or even Red Hat
> or SuSE) are in that league, and I sure hope they will never be. But
> seeing those extremes does make me wary.

Of course that is a shame. But it's not a reason to be worried
concerning Mandrake. There are people who see a tree being cut. What do
they think about? What wonderful furniture a skilled man can produce out
of this piece of wood? Or how many fires can be started with the matches
made from this piece of wood?

>  I always wondered why of all words "free" is one that's defined so
> poorly in the English language, while that language can be so subtle
> otherwise. Amazing. :-)

True.
 
> If there wasn't a download version, I'd simply not
> use Mandrake in this case, simple as that. But the download version
> exists and the product is good enough, so I use it. This is just my
> way of telling Mandrake that they *can* have more money from me, just
> not this way.

Aha. How about this: If a product is good, I don't care whether I have
to pay for it or not, I'll get it. If the product is not good, I don't
care about free versions, I just don't want it.

You decide that as Mandrake is getting money from elsewhere you can take
the free version. All I see from you is: If I have to pay, I won't take
it, because Mandrake gets enough money from elsewhere.

OK, everybody has his right to decide, but don't try to construct
reasons where there are none. I'd be perfectly happy with you saying: "I
don't want to pay for a distribution, I want it gratis!" Why not, it's
not illegal. But I complain about the reasons you give for not buying
any more. They are just not right.

wobo

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[expert] bios data check failure

[a . ranu]

hi

i am currently using Mandrake 9 and kernel 2.4.19 which came with it... so far my 
experiences recompiling the kernel have only been limited to using the kernel
source rpm for mandrake...

now when i try to compile the kernel source (2.4.18 and 2.4.20) from 
www.kernel.org, it compiles without errors... but when i try to boot the image,
lilo flashes 'bios data check' and then it automatically reboots...

what am i doing wrong? does it have to do with some options in 'make
menuconfig that i am not setting?'

has anybody had this problem when using the kernel source from www.kernel.org?

i have done this too many times but it keeps failing on me...

thanks

Asmeet.


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[expert] Re: Can't post to newsgroups in Mandrake 9.1

[T. Ribbrock]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 05:25:18PM -0700, Jeremy Gregorio wrote:
>It's weird. None of my posts show up no matter what reader I use 
> (pan, mozilla, knode). The newsreaders seem to send fine, but the post 
> never shows up. It works fine in redhat though. I've tried shutting down 
> iptables with /etc/init.d/iptables stop, to no avail. Weird thing is, I 
> can articles just fine, I just can't seem to post. I've got no clue what 
> could be causing this, can anyone helpl TIA.

I reckon you've using the exact same configuration settings in both RH
and MDK? If you really suspect that the firewall could have anything to do
with it, you could have a look at things with ethereal of tcpdump. They will
show the packets that are sent on the interface, but that's pretty low level.

Another thing that comes to mind: Are the machines in RH and MDK both
set to the same domain? I've seen problems using the news server of my
ISP in the past when my machine didn't seem to be in the domain of my
ISP (I was using an internal domain). The news server simply refusd to
let me post.

Cheerio,

Thomas
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

[expert] Re: Thin clients / SunRay

[T. Ribbrock]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 09:34:16AM +0200, Guy Van Sanden wrote:
[...]
> But is that kind of special hardware also available for Linux (they
> offer more advantages than PC's, including lack of noise)?  Can Sunrays
> work with Linux?

To the best of my knowledge, SunRays themselves cannot be used with
Linux. I remember seing such discussions before - you might want to
have a look at the comp.sys.sun.* groups on Usenet. Maybe
http://ultralinux.org and http://www.sparclinux.org have some
information, too.

You can, however, do this with Linux without special hardware, as far
as I know. I haven't done it myself, but there is a HOWTO for diskless
clients by the Linux Documentation Project:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Diskless-HOWTO.html
Maybe that's a starting point.

Cheerio,

Thomas
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

[expert] Re: SOYO + AMD XP2500: new mobo (2)

[Philip Webb]

re my attempt to get my new box working -- Soyo Dragon Plus KT400 Black,
AMD XP Barton 2500+, DDR400 (512 MB), ASUS AGP V9180 Magic (MX440 8x) -- ,
a 2nd night's testing made progress, tho' there's still more to do.

no problem with the CD drive,
which i was able to mount from the RAMF118 diskette rescue system
& also to use to start the Mdk 9.0 CD1 (in rescue mode).
no problem with the HDD: all partitions & files seem ok (brief check-out).
no problem with BIOS default settings: memory clock is set at  166 MHz 
& 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' shows 'model name = AMD Athlon XP 2500+'
& 'cpu = 1833 MHz', which is what it should show.

query: the CPU frequency (FSB) is on auto & i assume it's at  166 MHz ,
but how can i find out?  i tried manually setting it to  166 MHz ,
but the machine wouldn't start; the CPU/PCI ratio is given as  /3 ,
which would imply a CPU frequency of only  100 MHz :
with the manual setting, there was no way to alter the ratio (there sb).
the memory bus (FSB) is the crucial bottleneck on any system.

finding: the 2.4.21-13mdkBOOT kernel (Mdk 9.1) won't start,
running into a kernel panic as the previous night.
however, the 9.0 kernel (2.4.19-7mdkBOOT) has no problem,
so i've installed 9.0 as a test system & am presently downloading 9.2rc2 ,
which i can try to install tomorrow night.

finding: Mdk 9.0 can't recognise the graphics card (not a big surprise),
so the box has only a CLI i/face for the moment.  9.2rc2 sb ok here.

anyone have any thoughts re what mb causing the panic with the 9.1 kernel ?
hopefully, there won't be a problem with 9.2 , but in case there is
it wb nice to have suggestions eg re parameters to pass to the kernel.

finally & not least, thanx to GM & the others who have offered help so far.

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,  Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT`-O--O---'  University of Toronto

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Guy Van Sanden]

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 09:40, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:58:59 +0200:
> 

> Aha. How about this: If a product is good, I don't care whether I have
> to pay for it or not, I'll get it. If the product is not good, I don't
> care about free versions, I just don't want it.
> 
> You decide that as Mandrake is getting money from elsewhere you can take
> the free version. All I see from you is: If I have to pay, I won't take
> it, because Mandrake gets enough money from elsewhere.
> 
> OK, everybody has his right to decide, but don't try to construct
> reasons where there are none. I'd be perfectly happy with you saying: "I
> don't want to pay for a distribution, I want it gratis!" Why not, it's
> not illegal. But I complain about the reasons you give for not buying
> any more. They are just not right.
> 
> wobo
> 

To be fair Wobo, he really didn't say that. 
It's about the same with TV-channels.
I get a number of channels for free, because they are paid for by the
commercials, I don't like it, but I'm not forced to watch them.
If I pay a subscription fee for those channels, the commercials are not
acceptable.  I do not think I should pay to be forced to watch
commercials.
So, if I pay for my boxed Mandrake distro, it should not contain ads.

Now, in all fairness, it is the right of Mandrake as a company to do
this, but it is also the right of their users to switch distro if they
don't like this.

I ditched SuSE a year ago (after 5 years of use - and buying every major
release), because I resented the fact that they held YaST in proprietary
development, and the last drop was UnitedLinux.
SuSE was free to choose their path, just as I was free to protest it by
moving to Mandrake, because they better represented my ideals.

Now, in a perfect world, Linux (and others) would be developped by
non-commercial institutions with government funding.  It would be
completely free of commercial influences.
But this is not a perfect world, our legacy-capitalistic society is not
yet really ready for notions of openness and freedom.  That is why Linux
companies are an 'evil' we need to tolerate.

Mandrake is a fine organisation, and I admire a lot of what they do, but
I would be even happier to see them as a not-for-profit organization,
yet I also know that this would be impossible at this time.

As I stated earlier, I will now wait and see how things go over the next
months.  I will still be using 9.2, but if things progress in the wrong
direction I will probably switch to Debian, Gentoo or even FreeBSD
(which I am already using on some systems).
> 
> __
> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
> Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


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Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

[expert] Re: Whoa there...

[T. Ribbrock]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 09:40:51AM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:58:59 +0200:
> 
> I did not mean such that involved proprietary stuff. I meant projects
> which involve a lot of time and engagement. If there were only people
> doing it in their spare time while going to a 9 to 5 job every day these
> projects wouldn't even have started because of lack of time.

I doubt that they wouldn't have started. If the "itch" is strong
enough, someone will scratch it, that's the way it worked the whole
time. We might not be as far (technology-wise) as we are now, as it
would take much longer.

> 
> > On the other hand, seeing that other projects (e.g. OpenBSD) can
> > thrive without all those companies involved, there seem to be other
> > ways as well.
> 
> Are you sure that none of the developers are sponsored by a company?

Reasonably. Theo lives of the project, afaik. And he is not known for
letting external influences interfere... (though the extent to which
he takes this has been subject to a multitude of discussions - but
that's an entirely different kettle of fish).


[...]
> It's the same thing as it is with arts. Some things can only be produced
> and maintained with the help of somebody. Nothing wrong with that. The
> only important question is: How much influence has the money?

Agreed. I concede your point.


> Of course that is a shame. But it's not a reason to be worried
> concerning Mandrake. There are people who see a tree being cut. What do
> they think about? What wonderful furniture a skilled man can produce out
> of this piece of wood? Or how many fires can be started with the matches
> made from this piece of wood?

Or whether cutting that tree is really necessary? Without knowing
anything about the guy who cuts the tree, he observer will not be able
to know. Up till now, Mandrake has no track record with me, except for
hearsay.


> Aha. How about this: If a product is good, I don't care whether I have
> to pay for it or not, I'll get it. If the product is not good, I don't
> care about free versions, I just don't want it.
> 
> You decide that as Mandrake is getting money from elsewhere you can take
> the free version. All I see from you is: If I have to pay, I won't take
> it, because Mandrake gets enough money from elsewhere.

 No. That's *not* what I'm saying. Maybe I need to differentiate
more: Mandrake makes one Linux distro, but many products. I've tested
the distro, as packed in the product "9.1 download edition". I liked
what I saw. It's a good distro. So I want to use it. At the same time,
I *do* agree to "fair price for a fair product", so I'm quite willing
to buy the product "standard edition" to get the distro. However, then
Mandrake announced their stance with regard to third-party advertising
in their products. What they announced (forcing third-party ads on
paying customers) is a business practice I do *not* like, no matter
from whom. Hence, I do *not* like the product anymore, even though I
do like the distro, cause I do *not* want to support that type of
business practice.
That leaves only the product "download edition" if I do want the distro,
which is a pity.

If you want to call this constructed just because you don't agree with
the reasoning, fine, be my guest. In that case we'll have to agree to
disagree, as to me, they are *very* valid reasons - otherwise I
wouldn't spend the time presenting them. Just "freeloading" can be had
with much less effort... ;-)

Regards,

Thomas
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

[expert] Samba chewing to much CPU Power

[Mark Williamson]

Hello All,

This must be a simple solve..   but I haven't quiet got it..  I have a
server that's chewing lot's of CPU power while copying files from the M$
machines to the Samba server..


Tasks:  74 total,   2 running,  72 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu(s):   0.0% user, 100.0% system,   0.0% nice,   0.0% idle
Mem:482784k total,   477208k used, 5576k free,   32k buffers
Swap:  1622480k total,0k used,  1622480k free,   330968k cached

  PID USER  PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEMTIME+  Command
13366 lisa  20   0  2640 2640 2292 R 99.3  0.5  32:57.03 smbd
13073 root   9   0   980  980  776 S  0.3  0.2   0:24.77 top
1 root   8   0   496  496  448 S  0.0  0.1   0:27.34 init
2 root   9   0 000 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.97 keventd

And the samba server is real slow... This hasn't happened to all
Samba servers that I have built..   but this one is real strange.. Just
havn't been able to solve this performance issue with this particular
server and samba..

Cheers
Mark



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[ed tharp]

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 02:58, T. Ribbrock wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 01:07:12AM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> > T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:29:16 +0200:
> > > Linux companies are a necessary evil in my eyes. They're needed to
> > > help prevent monopolies from drowning the software world in
> > > proprietary lock-ins, as unfortunately, you need money for that.
> > > But they're not the essence of the movement in my opinion.
> > > They also provide convenience, something I have appreciated in the
> > > past and still do appreciate.
> > 
> > You seem to forget some of the essential parts. What about the Open
> > Source projects which are sponsored by Linux companies? You may ask
> > yourself how far Linux would have evolved was it not that the main
> > leaders (Linus et al) were sponsored by companies. Linus is a good
> > example. He said Bye to Transmeta and stated explicitely that he
> > appreciated the way Transmeta did not force him to work for his pay but
> > let him as much time for Linux as he wanted/needed.
> > 
> [several examples for companies helping]
> > 
> > Without the companies backing them up many developers of the Linux
> > community would have to work on other stuff to earn their pay and so the
> > projects they work for would have been delayed or not possible at all.
> 
> I concede the point that those companies have helped greatly. However,
> I see to aspects: Some projects, as you say, would have been delayed -
> but nonetheless, they would still have happened, just slower. As for
> the projects that wouldn't have been possible: Correct me, if I'm
> wrong, but I think many of those included stuff, where proprietary
> things were involved - stuff, that had to be done from business to
> business. That's another aspect of what I mean with necessary evil.
> You're right that it couldn't have been done without them, but I still
> think it's a pity that it has to be that way.
> On the other hand, seeing that other projects (e.g. OpenBSD) can
> thrive without all those companies involved, there seem to be other
> ways as well.
ahhh, no.
BSD would be a kernel just as linux is just a kernel. I bet 100%of the
companies using BSD and apache-PHP/mySQL on their webserver would not be
there without mySQL, how good is BSD without any of the programs that
are packed with it? same thing bud. 


> 
> > > On the other hand, with business comes vested interests and efforts to
> > > influence the whole thing, to use, and maybe even ab-use it
> > > (Caldera/SCO, anyone?).
and why do you make a statement that sounds as though only businesses
have vested interests? individuals come with vested interests as well as
hidden and open prejudices. 
> > 
> > Sure, but why do you name just the most commercial? Why do you mix up
> > Mandrake with other companies which always had a straight commercial
> > poin of view?
> 
> I was using Caldera/SCO as an example for the extreme this *can* lead
> to.

why not "Bonnie and Clyde" as long as we are talking about
misappropriations and taking something that you did not earn or pay for?

>  It was not my intention to suggest that Mandrake (or even Red Hat
> or SuSE) are in that league, and I sure hope they will never be. But
> seeing those extremes does make me wary.
> 
>  
> > > Till then, it's the download version for me, knowing,
> > > that Mandrake at least still gets some money out of it.
but no matter how good it is, you don't seem willing to _pay_ for the
quality product you receive. damn shame (imho)


> > 
> > Nobody denies you that. How could anybody? Download versions have been
> > free (as in free beer) all the time.
> 
>  I always wondered why of all words "free" is one that's defined so
> poorly in the English language, while that language can be so subtle
> otherwise. Amazing. :-)
> 
> 
> > What you are saying is, now that the download version is polluted with
> > ads you can use it without having a moral obligation to pay something
> > for it, be it money or be it your time and talents.
> > 
> > And this is IMHO at least debatable.
> 
> See, I was afraid someone would do what you're doing here: You're
> turning my argument around by 180 degrees. I'm *not* preferring the
> download version because it still generates revenue for Mandrake while
> being cheaper for me. If you think that, I don't think you've read my
> previous mail well enough. I using the download version, because I
> *refuse* to pay for the boxed version the way Mandrake is planning to
> release it (i.e. with third party advertising). I even suggested an
> alternative: Release a fully ad-free version for 10% extra and watch
> me buying it... :-) If there wasn't a download version, I'd simply not
> use Mandrake in this case, simple as that. But the download version
> exists and the product is good enough, so I use it. This is just my
> way of telling Mandrake that they *can* have more money from me, just
> not this way.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Thomas

ohhh,, right,,, did you bu

Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[ed tharp]

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 05:08, Guy Van Sanden wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 09:40, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> > T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:58:59 +0200:
> > 
> 
> > Aha. How about this: If a product is good, I don't care whether I have
> > to pay for it or not, I'll get it. If the product is not good, I don't
> > care about free versions, I just don't want it.
> > 
> > You decide that as Mandrake is getting money from elsewhere you can take
> > the free version. All I see from you is: If I have to pay, I won't take
> > it, because Mandrake gets enough money from elsewhere.
> > 
> > OK, everybody has his right to decide, but don't try to construct
> > reasons where there are none. I'd be perfectly happy with you saying: "I
> > don't want to pay for a distribution, I want it gratis!" Why not, it's
> > not illegal. But I complain about the reasons you give for not buying
> > any more. They are just not right.
> > 
> > wobo
> > 
> 
> To be fair Wobo, he really didn't say that. 
> It's about the same with TV-channels.
> I get a number of channels for free, because they are paid for by the
> commercials, I don't like it, but I'm not forced to watch them.
> If I pay a subscription fee for those channels, the commercials are not
> acceptable.  I do not think I should pay to be forced to watch
> commercials.
I guess you don't get cable and have never seen discovery channel, cause
they sure are a fee-subscription service, and they sure have some
commercials. 

> So, if I pay for my boxed Mandrake distro, it should not contain ads.
always did before, just adds for Mandrake services not 3rd party
services. seems to me RH puts a LOT of adds for RH inc. in their distro
too...


> Now, in all fairness, it is the right of Mandrake as a company to do
> this, but it is also the right of their users to switch distro if they
> don't like this.
sure, no one is begging you to stay a "loyal MDK freeloader", just
debating if your reasoning is sincere.



> 
> I ditched SuSE a year ago (after 5 years of use - and buying every major
> release), because I resented the fact that they held YaST in proprietary
> development, and the last drop was UnitedLinux.
> SuSE was free to choose their path, just as I was free to protest it by
> moving to Mandrake, because they better represented my ideals.
> 
> Now, in a perfect world, Linux (and others) would be developped by
> non-commercial institutions with government funding. 
I DO NOT want any governmental involvement, and the smaller the better. 

>  It would be
> completely free of commercial influences.

I doubt _anything_ in the US government is free of "commercial
influences", and that goes for all 50 state governments and all county
governments too...

> But this is not a perfect world, our legacy-capitalistic society is not
> yet really ready for notions of openness and freedom.  That is why Linux
> companies are an 'evil' we need to tolerate.
> 
> Mandrake is a fine organisation, and I admire a lot of what they do, but
> I would be even happier to see them as a not-for-profit organization,
> yet I also know that this would be impossible at this time.
> 
> As I stated earlier, I will now wait and see how things go over the next
> months.  I will still be using 9.2, but if things progress in the wrong
> direction I will probably switch to Debian, Gentoo or even FreeBSD
> (which I am already using on some systems).
> > 



my suggestion to you would be to stick with free BSD, and any of the
stuff you use with any company backing them, delete it right away.



> > __
> > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
> > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
> Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
-- 
++
Mandrake HowTo's & More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Wolfgang Bornath]

T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:25:08 +0200:

> On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 09:40:51AM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> 
> Or whether cutting that tree is really necessary? Without knowing
> anything about the guy who cuts the tree, he observer will not be able
> to know. Up till now, Mandrake has no track record with me, except for
> hearsay.

That's one thing I can understand. So, why don't you read the statements
of long-term Mandrake users and go to the website and read the last 3
year's news from Mandrake. They show a lot of Mandrake's commitment to
Open Source. It's just one page.

Me, I'm a long-term user. I started with version 5.2 (the first) short
before 5.3 was released. I know some of the leading people in person and
all I can say is: knowing them assures me that Mandrake will not go down
the SuSE/Red Hat/Caldera road. BTW: Caldera can't be counted in on the
"non-commercial" companies. A Caldera rep once told me "Caldera does not
aim at the individual Linux user. We are strictly corporation
orientated."

>  No. That's *not* what I'm saying. Maybe I need to differentiate
> more: Mandrake makes one Linux distro, but many products. I've tested
> the distro, as packed in the product "9.1 download edition". I liked
> what I saw. It's a good distro. So I want to use it. At the same time,
> I *do* agree to "fair price for a fair product", so I'm quite willing
> to buy the product "standard edition" to get the distro. However, then
> Mandrake announced their stance with regard to third-party advertising
> in their products. What they announced (forcing third-party ads on
> paying customers) is a business practice I do *not* like, no matter
> from whom. Hence, I do *not* like the product anymore, even though I
> do like the distro, cause I do *not* want to support that type of
> business practice.
> That leaves only the product "download edition" if I do want the
> distro, which is a pity.

This makes sense. I don't agree but it makes sense as a reasoning.
All you wrote before was a bit distorted compared to this. Or maybe I'm
just a simple guy who understands simple reasoning 

wobo

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[expert] Toshiba laptop + updated X = screw-up

[stefmit]

Just worked on my laptop last night, and, while doing other things, decided to 
check the updates and chose to allow the X update to go through. Of course 
everything worked fine (update and such), but once shutting it down and 
restarting it this morning, in the office - X is broken. What do I mean by 
this? When starting, the screen shows lots of colored lines in the upper 
portion, after which it brings up the login (what used to be) acreen, but with 
no dialog box for input, or possibility to do anything (actually I can pick the 
username, which is still visible, but I cannot "guess" where the password field 
may be ... let alone the fact that this would come up - probably - with more 
weird stuff, even if able to login.

In the rest, another tty (CLI) works just fine, as does non-init 5 levels. 
Anybody having any idea what could have broken with the new X? I would 
appreciate any help, as I am stuck now with a Windows box, readin/writing email 
using a browser, and all my weekend work dependent on my laptop (unless 
deciding to install Openoffice in Windows).

Thx,
Stef

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Re: [expert] Toshiba laptop + updated X = screw-up

[Jason Greenwood]

In a pinch, use Knoppix to autoconfigure X and then overwrite the 
XF86Config/Config-4 of Mandrake. If it's just a configuration problem 
than that might work. If not and X is toast, then a downgrade to an 
earlier version of X might be the only fix. This, of course, will have 
to be done from the CLI.

Cheers

Jason

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Just worked on my laptop last night, and, while doing other things, decided to 
check the updates and chose to allow the X update to go through. Of course 
everything worked fine (update and such), but once shutting it down and 
restarting it this morning, in the office - X is broken. What do I mean by 
this? When starting, the screen shows lots of colored lines in the upper 
portion, after which it brings up the login (what used to be) acreen, but with 
no dialog box for input, or possibility to do anything (actually I can pick the 
username, which is still visible, but I cannot "guess" where the password field 
may be ... let alone the fact that this would come up - probably - with more 
weird stuff, even if able to login.

In the rest, another tty (CLI) works just fine, as does non-init 5 levels. 
Anybody having any idea what could have broken with the new X? I would 
appreciate any help, as I am stuck now with a Windows box, readin/writing email 
using a browser, and all my weekend work dependent on my laptop (unless 
deciding to install Openoffice in Windows).

Thx,
Stef
 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
 



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Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [expert] Toshiba laptop + updated X = screw-up

[stefmit]

Thank you for the quick answer - this is what I did not know for sure: if I 
can "downgrade" to an earlier version of X, after "upgrading" to the new one 
(more secure, 'cause I can't use it ;)). I am going right now through XFDrake 
(which I assume will work even under CLI), to see if I can repair the new X, 
first. This reminds me of another OS, which delivers Service Packs, followed 
by "patches", then "hotfixes" ;(

Just out of curiosity: anybody else with a Toshiba 8100 around here, having had 
issues with the patched X?

Thx again,
Stef
> In a pinch, use Knoppix to autoconfigure X and then overwrite the 
> XF86Config/Config-4 of Mandrake. If it's just a configuration problem 
> than that might work. If not and X is toast, then a downgrade to an 
> earlier version of X might be the only fix. This, of course, will have 
> to be done from the CLI.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jason
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >Just worked on my laptop last night, and, while doing other things, decided to 
> >check the updates and chose to allow the X update to go through. Of course 
> >everything worked fine (update and such), but once shutting it down and 
> >restarting it this morning, in the office - X is broken. What do I mean by 
> >this? When starting, the screen shows lots of colored lines in the upper 
> >portion, after which it brings up the login (what used to be) acreen, but with 
> >no dialog box for input, or possibility to do anything (actually I can pick the 
> >username, which is still visible, but I cannot "guess" where the password field 

> >may be ... let alone the fact that this would come up - probably - with more 
> >weird stuff, even if able to login.
> >
> >In the rest, another tty (CLI) works just fine, as does non-init 5 levels. 
> >Anybody having any idea what could have broken with the new X? I would 
> >appreciate any help, as I am stuck now with a Windows box, readin/writing email 
> >using a browser, and all my weekend work dependent on my laptop (unless 
> >deciding to install Openoffice in Windows).
> >
> >Thx,
> >Stef
> >
> >  

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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[JM5379]

>>  No. That's *not* what I'm saying. Maybe I need to
differentiate
>> more: Mandrake makes one Linux distro, but many products. I've
tested
>> the distro, as packed in the product "9.1 download edition". I
liked
>> what I saw. It's a good distro. So I want to use it. At the
same time,
>> I *do* agree to "fair price for a fair product", so I'm quite
willing
>> to buy the product "standard edition" to get the distro.
However, then
>> Mandrake announced their stance with regard to third-party
advertising
>> in their products. What they announced (forcing third-party ads on
>> paying customers) is a business practice I do *not* like, no
matter
>> from whom. Hence, I do *not* like the product anymore, even
though I
>> do like the distro, cause I do *not* want to support that type of
>> business practice.
>> That leaves only the product "download edition" if I do want the
>> distro, which is a pity.
>
>This makes sense. I don't agree but it makes sense as a reasoning.
>All you wrote before was a bit distorted compared to this. Or
maybe I'm
>just a simple guy who understands simple reasoning 
>
>wobo
>

my one and only .02 worth... advertising (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th...
party) is a fact of life.  you see it in tv, on dvd's, in every
form of print, in the movie theatre, on billboards, hear it on
radio - even those subscription or single-purchase formats (dvd's
again, newspapers, magazines, rentals).  every website you see
has advertising, even the subscription ones. linuxtoday.com,
linux journal, slashdot.org, the list goes on ad infinitum...

what makes mandrake or any other open source software product any
more "pure" and less deserving of additional revenue than any of
these other products we all use daily?  we may not like that
these companies "force" advertising on us yet how many times do
we decide to refuse their offerings simply because they've
surrendered to the "dark side"?  ads during installation?  big
deal, it's gone in a matter of a couple of hours if you do a
detailed installation, and most of that time is (possibly
selecting and) actually loading files which most of us don't
watch closely anyway.

personaly i believe this person has chosen a myopic point of view
for assigning to a single product a single attribute that is
common to the vast majority of products while ignoring that same
attribute in every other product he/she uses, but that is this
person's right and i wish them well whatever path they choose
regarding this.

i don't like the fact mandrake is going to include advertising in
their product but i fully understand their need to do so and
accept it as a part of the future of mandrake.  when that
decision is pushed to the point of becoming unacceptable i will
look elsewhere.  i also use only the free download versions
(though i have purchased packaged releases before); since i don't
contribute i don't complain.

a last consideration - there has been much offense and defense
regarding this person's expression of his opinions.  the ability
to have an opinion and the ability to express it such that others
can fully grasp those opinion's meanings are not always given out
in equal measure.  what i know i am not always able to express
such that others fully understand what i mean to share; that
doesn't mean i enjoy (or should even have to suffer) being
attacked for not being able to express myself clearly.


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[expert] Re: Whoa there...

[T. Ribbrock]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 12:46:06PM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
[...]
> So, why don't you read the statements
> of long-term Mandrake users and go to the website and read the last 3
> year's news from Mandrake. They show a lot of Mandrake's commitment to
> Open Source. It's just one page.

I'll keep that for a quiet moment, thanks for the pointer.


> Me, I'm a long-term user. I started with version 5.2 (the first) short
> before 5.3 was released. I know some of the leading people in person and
> all I can say is: knowing them assures me that Mandrake will not go down
> the SuSE/Red Hat/Caldera road.

 Knowing some of the participants in person almost always changes
the scope - I'm not surprised.


> BTW: Caldera can't be counted in on the
> "non-commercial" companies. A Caldera rep once told me "Caldera does not
> aim at the individual Linux user. We are strictly corporation
> orientated."

And so they did... But let's let *that* topic lie - it's good enough
to let oodles of people fly off their handle...


[...]
> This makes sense. I don't agree but it makes sense as a reasoning.
> All you wrote before was a bit distorted compared to this. Or maybe I'm
> just a simple guy who understands simple reasoning 

Wobo, I'd be the first to admit that I don't always succeed in putting my
reasoning into understandable sentences... ;-)

Cheerio,

Thomas
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Guy Van Sanden]

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 12:40, ed tharp wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 05:08, Guy Van Sanden wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 09:40, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> > > T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:58:59 +0200:

> > If I pay a subscription fee for those channels, the commercials are not
> > acceptable.  I do not think I should pay to be forced to watch
> > commercials.
> I guess you don't get cable and have never seen discovery channel, cause
> they sure are a fee-subscription service, and they sure have some
> commercials. 
> 

I know such channels exist (although not in my country, here the paid
channels only have commercials for their own broadcasts, and they do not
interrupt movies/programs form them).
What I am saying is that I would not pay for such a channel if it
existed here, while I would be inclined to pay for an ad-free movie
channel.

> > So, if I pay for my boxed Mandrake distro, it should not contain ads.
> always did before, just adds for Mandrake services not 3rd party
> services. seems to me RH puts a LOT of adds for RH inc. in their distro
> too...
> 

Possible, but I don't use RH...


> > Now, in all fairness, it is the right of Mandrake as a company to do
> > this, but it is also the right of their users to switch distro if they
> > don't like this.
> sure, no one is begging you to stay a "loyal MDK freeloader", just
> debating if your reasoning is sincere.
> 
> 

As I stated (and others did so too), I protest ads in the *boxed*
version.  The download edition is something else.
I'm only on my second MDK release so far.  But I dropped SuSE after
buying *every* major release for 5 years because they became too
commercial for my taste.

> 
> >> 
> > Now, in a perfect world, Linux (and others) would be developped by
> > non-commercial institutions with government funding. 
> I DO NOT want any governmental involvement, and the smaller the better. 
> 
> >  It would be
> > completely free of commercial influences.
> 
> I doubt _anything_ in the US government is free of "commercial
> influences", and that goes for all 50 state governments and all county
> governments too...
> 

Possibly, but Mandrake is not in the US, an neither am I. 
I am not saying the time and circumstances are right for this now, but
in a perfect world, free software should be safeguarded against
commercial interference.
It should be government funded, yet not government controlled (I don't
trust politicians any more than I trust corporate drones).

> my suggestion to you would be to stick with free BSD, and any of the
> stuff you use with any company backing them, delete it right away.
> 
I did not state that company backing in this day and age turns me of a
system.  Although I do not like it, it is the way the world works right
now and I can't change that.
I am not going of Mandrake immediately (if ever), I will wait and see
how things progress.  If it stays with the ads in the announced form it
is still acceptable (yet I regret it came to this).



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Re: [expert] Toshiba laptop + updated X = screw-up

[stefmit]

Switched to 3.3.6, and everything is OK (except for fonts in KDE, which are 
very ugly ... ) - still hoping for a 4.x fix ...

On Monday 15 September 2003 06:29 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Thank you for the quick answer - this is what I did not know for sure: if I
> can "downgrade" to an earlier version of X, after "upgrading" to the new
> one (more secure, 'cause I can't use it ;)). I am going right now through
> XFDrake (which I assume will work even under CLI), to see if I can repair
> the new X, first. This reminds me of another OS, which delivers Service
> Packs, followed by "patches", then "hotfixes" ;(
>
> Just out of curiosity: anybody else with a Toshiba 8100 around here, having
> had issues with the patched X?
>
> Thx again,
> Stef
>
> > In a pinch, use Knoppix to autoconfigure X and then overwrite the
> > XF86Config/Config-4 of Mandrake. If it's just a configuration problem
> > than that might work. If not and X is toast, then a downgrade to an
> > earlier version of X might be the only fix. This, of course, will have
> > to be done from the CLI.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >Just worked on my laptop last night, and, while doing other things,
> > > decided to check the updates and chose to allow the X update to go
> > > through. Of course everything worked fine (update and such), but once
> > > shutting it down and restarting it this morning, in the office - X is
> > > broken. What do I mean by this? When starting, the screen shows lots of
> > > colored lines in the upper portion, after which it brings up the login
> > > (what used to be) acreen, but with no dialog box for input, or
> > > possibility to do anything (actually I can pick the username, which is
> > > still visible, but I cannot "guess" where the password field
> > >
> > >may be ... let alone the fact that this would come up - probably - with
> > > more weird stuff, even if able to login.
> > >
> > >In the rest, another tty (CLI) works just fine, as does non-init 5
> > > levels. Anybody having any idea what could have broken with the new X?
> > > I would appreciate any help, as I am stuck now with a Windows box,
> > > readin/writing email using a browser, and all my weekend work dependent
> > > on my laptop (unless deciding to install Openoffice in Windows).
> > >
> > >Thx,
> > >Stef


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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Guy Van Sanden]

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 12:40, ed tharp wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 02:58, T. Ribbrock wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 01:07:12AM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> BSD would be a kernel just as linux is just a kernel. I bet 100%of the
> companies using BSD and apache-PHP/mySQL on their webserver would not be
> there without mySQL, how good is BSD without any of the programs that
> are packed with it? same thing bud. 
> 

BSD is not a kernel like Linux, it is an OS.
GNU provided the utilities on top of Linux, which make up the entire OS,
BSD is a whole, kernel, system utilities etc all in one, and it doesn't
have distributions.  (Open/Free/NetBSD do have common roots, but are
seperate OS's)

Although it is a complete OS, applications are still another matter, be
they an X-server, Windowmanager or webserver, you have the same choice
there as you do on Linux (Apache, KDE, ...).


> and why do you make a statement that sounds as though only businesses
> have vested interests? individuals come with vested interests as well as
> hidden and open prejudices. 

Because businesses are *inherently* distrustfull.  They have one goal:
MAKE MONEY, if you do that by emploing 10-year old children in Thailand
working for 1 ¤/$ a day, that's good business, yet it is morally
degraded. (Nike likes that kind of thing).

> > > 
> why not "Bonnie and Clyde" as long as we are talking about
> misappropriations and taking something that you did not earn or pay for?
> 

Bonny and Clyde where *thieves*, yet SCO/Disney/Microsoft/GM are
respected corporations (one better than the other).  I don't see much
difference in their actions.
Face it, most corporations are crooks, even if they don't break the law,
they lack a moral code.  Why do you think they protest minimum-wages,
unions, ...

I do concede that Mandrake has proven itself different (better), and
earned our trust for the moment.  But I and some other people are
concerened that commercial ideas will start affecting engineering
decisions.

> but no matter how good it is, you don't seem willing to _pay_ for the
> quality product you receive. damn shame (imho)
> 
How do you know that?
He stated like me that he does not want to pay for the ad-version.

I stand by my opinion that the "for-fee" version should be ad-free.  Ads
in the download edition are acceptable.



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Re: [expert] bios data check failure

[kwan]

> hi
>
> i am currently using Mandrake 9 and kernel 2.4.19 which came with it... so
> far my
> experiences recompiling the kernel have only been limited to using the
> kernel
> source rpm for mandrake...
>
> now when i try to compile the kernel source (2.4.18 and 2.4.20) from
> www.kernel.org, it compiles without errors... but when i try to boot the
> image,
> lilo flashes 'bios data check' and then it automatically reboots...
>
> what am i doing wrong? does it have to do with some options in 'make
> menuconfig that i am not setting?'
>
> has anybody had this problem when using the kernel source from
> www.kernel.org?
>
I run the stock kernels on a few machines without errors. The first things
to check are that you specified the correct kernel and installed the image
correctly. If you have another machine handy you can also try sending boot
messages to a serial console in case there are other messages that you are
missing.

What kind of CPU/Motherboard are you using? How much memory? Is it an SMP
board?

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Re: [expert] Samba chewing to much CPU Power

[Miark]

On 15 Sep 2003 19:29:06 +1000, Mark Williamson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This must be a simple solve..   but I haven't quiet got it..  I have a
> server that's chewing lot's of CPU power while copying files from the M$
> machines to the Samba server..

Which M$ machines?

Miark

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Re: [expert] Samba chewing to much CPU Power

[Mark]

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 23:45, Miark wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2003 19:29:06 +1000, Mark Williamson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > This must be a simple solve..   but I haven't quiet got it..  I have a
> > server that's chewing lot's of CPU power while copying files from the M$
> > machines to the Samba server..
> 
> Which M$ machines?

A combination of Win98, Win2000 and XP Home..

Cheers
Mark



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Re: [expert] urpmi not reading Mandrake CDs properly

[Rolf Pedersen]

Richard Urwin wrote:
On Monday 15 Sep 2003 6:04 am, Rob Blomquist wrote:

I am trying to install wine from my 9.1 CDs, which I believe are
properly burned, as I can read them in Konqueror.
Urpmi is ejecting the CD, and telling me that I need to install a
different cd. I am assuming that some configuration file is corrupt,
and I need to update urpmi for the CDs.
I tryed running urpmi.update, but I don't see how to update the
distrib CDs.
Any ideas?


9.0 to 9.1 update doesn't update the urpmi sources.

Richard, I'm surprised if that is the case.  Was there a bug in 9.1 that 
sources weren't updated during an upgrade?

Rob, did you upgrade to 9.1 or install?  With how many CD's?  When you 
do 'urpmi.update' without any source arguments, what is the list of 
sources urpmi expects you to specify one from?  Also, in the menu > 
Configuration > Packaging > Software Sources Manager, are all three CDs 
listed and enabled?

If you installed from all three CD's, you can update CD1 by using the 
name urpmi.update gives you for the first CD as the argument, with CD1 
in the reader.  Escape any spaces with a backslash:

urpmi.update Installation\ CD\ 1

You could repeat for the other CDs but leave CD1 in as this is the 
source of the package lists.  Another way might be to put CD1 in the 
reader and do:

urpmi.update -a

Also, you could press the 'Update' button in Software Sources Manager, 
put CD1 in the reader, and select which CD(s) to update.

If you installed from CD1 and want to add the others to sources, or the 
database has become broken, it is probably best to remove the CD sources 
in Software Sources Manager and add them back, with CD1 in the reader:

urpmi.addmedia --distrib removable://mnt/cdrom/

Adjust /mnt/cdrom to reflect your mount point.

As to the integrity of the burned CDs, there is a good method for this 
on the wiki, if you still have the isos.  The first step is to verify 
the isos with md5sum, then compare verified isos to the burned disk with 
Pierre Fortin's method here: 
http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/BadISOMd5sumNotAlways  If you 
don't have the isos, use the dd method and check the md5sum against the 
value in the file from the mirror.

Rolf


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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[ed tharp]

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 07:58, Guy Van Sanden wrote:
first off,, since the attributes are sure getting confusing, (obviously)
I did not think I was replying to Guy, but to T.Ribbock.


> On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 12:40, ed tharp wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 05:08, Guy Van Sanden wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 09:40, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> > > > T. Ribbrock schrieb am Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:58:59 +0200:
> 
> > > If I pay a subscription fee for those channels, the commercials are not
> > > acceptable.  I do not think I should pay to be forced to watch
> > > commercials.
> > I guess you don't get cable and have never seen discovery channel, cause
> > they sure are a fee-subscription service, and they sure have some
> > commercials. 
> > 
> 
> I know such channels exist (although not in my country, here the paid
> channels only have commercials for their own broadcasts, and they do not
> interrupt movies/programs form them).
> What I am saying is that I would not pay for such a channel if it
> existed here, while I would be inclined to pay for an ad-free movie
> channel.
In fact and action, I agree,,, I have cable broadband, but not cable TV.
> > > So, if I pay for my boxed Mandrake distro, it should not contain ads.
> > always did before, just adds for Mandrake services not 3rd party
> > services. seems to me RH puts a LOT of adds for RH inc. in their distro
> > too...
> > 
> 
> Possible, but I don't use RH...
me neither, but I have installed it a few times to see what it is like.
But the point was we have alway seen some sort of "ad" just now the
circle of possible third parties might extend past the Mandrake store,
which, since the store has not really been exactly a 'focal point for a
profit center' to Mandrake Management, it might as well
> > > Now, in all fairness, it is the right of Mandrake as a company to do
> > > this, but it is also the right of their users to switch distro if they
> > > don't like this.
> > sure, no one is begging you to stay a "loyal MDK freeloader", just
> > debating if your reasoning is sincere.
> > 
> > 
> 
> As I stated (and others did so too), I protest ads in the *boxed*
> version.  The download edition is something else.
> I'm only on my second MDK release so far.  But I dropped SuSE after
> buying *every* major release for 5 years because they became too
> commercial for my taste.
I don't think that is a quote from me, but heck no one should beg me to
stay either, if I find love for Gentoo, knowwhatImean?


> > 
> > >> 
> > > Now, in a perfect world, Linux (and others) would be developped by
> > > non-commercial institutions with government funding. 
> > I DO NOT want any governmental involvement, and the smaller the better. 
> > 
> > >  It would be
> > > completely free of commercial influences.
> > 
> > I doubt _anything_ in the US government is free of "commercial
> > influences", and that goes for all 50 state governments and all county
> > governments too...
> > 
> 
> Possibly, but Mandrake is not in the US, an neither am I. 

Mandrake is in the US, even if the company has no employees here at all.

> I am not saying the time and circumstances are right for this now, but
> in a perfect world, free software should be safeguarded against
> commercial interference.
> It should be government funded, yet not government controlled (I don't
> trust politicians any more than I trust corporate drones).
> 
> > my suggestion to you would be to stick with free BSD, and any of the
> > stuff you use with any company backing them, delete it right away.
> > 
> I did not state that company backing in this day and age turns me of a
> system.
that was not directed at you, but if the shoe fits 
>   Although I do not like it, it is the way the world works right
> now and I can't change that.
> I am not going of Mandrake immediately (if ever), I will wait and see
> how things progress.  If it stays with the ads in the announced form it
> is still acceptable (yet I regret it came to this).
I too regret that the sales in stores alone could not support what I
firmly believe to be the best solution to folks first attempting to use
a computer, or those who intuitively feel there must be a better way
than what M$ sticks the rest of the planet with. 


> 
> __
-- 
++
Mandrake HowTo's & More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org



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Re: [expert] HELP!! Opening firewall ports to allow conter strike online gaming...

[Miark]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:36:17 -0700 (PDT), Roberto Armenteros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi everyone, I am running an ipchains firewall on my
> router. I have most ports closed, but I need to open
> the counter strike port to play online games "I dont
> know exactly what port this involves." Can somebody
> give me the proper rules to allow my CS client to
> connect to servers and be able to play online!!! I
> have deny all default rules.

Hi Bob,

Instead of "opening" ports, you'll need to "forward" them 
to your gaming machine. That means that when your router
receives data on the CS ports, it forwards them to your
gaming machine instead of trying to respond itself. To 
find the ports for this or any other game, do a search at 
Google for the game name and the words "forward" and "ports":

"counter-strike" forward ports

Miark


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Re: [expert] bios data check failure

[a . ranu]

i downloaded linux-2.4.20.tar.gz from www.kernel.org...

then executed the following commands:
tar xzvf linux-2.4.20.tar.gz
make menuconfig (picked QoS and fair queueing... which i need... didn't 
 really look at the rest)
make dep
make clean
make bzImage
make modules
make modules_install
make install

the thing is i did everything up to make modules on a fast machine on the network... 
and then went back to my laptop... mounted my home directory with the linux-2.4.20 
directory on it... and proceeded with make modules_install and make install... could 
that be a problem? my supervisors say it isnt possible though...

then i checked in /boot... the System map, vmlinuz and initrd.img for 2.4.20 were 
there... lilo.conf also contained an entry... seems perfectly fine 

when i try to boot the kernel... immediately after choosing it, it says 
'loading 2420'... 'BIOS data check'... and reboots on its own again... same story with 
2.4.18 which i tried earlier...

i tried modifying lilo.conf... so it loads the kernel without doing a bios check by 
appending "nobd" to the entry... but it still stuffs up... which leads me to think 
that its not the bios data check either... 

i am baffled with this thing... its bizarre... what am i doing wrong?
could it be that i dont have the right options checked in make menuconfig?

i dont have another machine handy to view messages thru the serial console... am not 
too sure abt the specs of the laptop because its owned by the university and i have 
been given it to do my final year project... but it doesnt have as much memory as i 
would like it to have though... runs pretty slow... 

thanks

Asmeet.

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 writes:
> > hi
> >
> > i am currently using Mandrake 9 and kernel 2.4.19 which came with it... so
> > far my
> > experiences recompiling the kernel have only been limited to using the
> > kernel
> > source rpm for mandrake...
> >
> > now when i try to compile the kernel source (2.4.18 and 2.4.20) from
> > www.kernel.org, it compiles without errors... but when i try to boot the
> > image,
> > lilo flashes 'bios data check' and then it automatically reboots...
> >
> > what am i doing wrong? does it have to do with some options in 'make
> > menuconfig that i am not setting?'
> >
> > has anybody had this problem when using the kernel source from
> > www.kernel.org?
> >
> I run the stock kernels on a few machines without errors. The first things
> to check are that you specified the correct kernel and installed the image
> correctly. If you have another machine handy you can also try sending boot
> messages to a serial console in case there are other messages that you are
> missing.
> 
> What kind of CPU/Motherboard are you using? How much memory? Is it an SMP
> board?
> 

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [expert] urpmi not reading Mandrake CDs properly

[Rob Blomquist]

On Monday 15 September 2003 07:05 am, Rolf Pedersen wrote:

> If you installed from all three CD's, you can update CD1 by using the
> name urpmi.update gives you for the first CD as the argument, with CD1
> in the reader.  Escape any spaces with a backslash:
>
> urpmi.update Installation\ CD\ 1

This did it. It allowed me to see that urpmi could not open /mnt/cdrom, as I 
had entered it as /mnt/cdrom/ in fstab. Removing the backslash got everything 
working and got wine installed.

Thanks,

Rob
-- 

Linux: For the people, by the people.

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[expert] ifpuld mandrake 9.1 - Second Request

[Lawson, Jim]

Thanks to the person who told me this for mandrake 9.1. Which file do I edit
to undo this. I did look around last night. I saw ifdown / Ifup in the
network script.

Can I copy the network script from Mandrake 9.0 to Mandrake 9.1?

Also there is no way of truning it off under drakeconnect or network config
in X.

Thanks for any help.




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Re: [expert] Toshiba laptop + updated X = screw-up

[Larry Sword]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Just worked on my laptop last night, and, while doing other things, decided to 
check the updates and chose to allow the X update to go through. Of course 
everything worked fine (update and such), but once shutting it down and 
restarting it this morning, in the office - X is broken. What do I mean by 
this? When starting, the screen shows lots of colored lines in the upper 
portion, after which it brings up the login (what used to be) acreen, but with 
no dialog box for input, or possibility to do anything (actually I can pick the 
username, which is still visible, but I cannot "guess" where the password field 
may be ... let alone the fact that this would come up - probably - with more 
weird stuff, even if able to login.

In the rest, another tty (CLI) works just fine, as does non-init 5 levels. 
Anybody having any idea what could have broken with the new X? I would 
appreciate any help, as I am stuck now with a Windows box, readin/writing email 
using a browser, and all my weekend work dependent on my laptop (unless 
deciding to install Openoffice in Windows).

Thx,
Stef
 

Stef,

As root run "XFdrake" and reset your X system.

Larry

--
Abit VP-6 Dual Pentium III 1GHz
Mandrake 9.1
Kernel 2.4.21-0.25mdksmp


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Re: [expert] bios data check failure

[kwan]

> the thing is i did everything up to make modules on a fast machine on the
> network... and then went back to my laptop... mounted my home directory
> with the linux-2.4.20 directory on it... and proceeded with make
> modules_install and make install... could that be a problem? my
> supervisors say it isnt possible though...

No, that shouldn't be it. It's fine to build on another machine, providing
that the distributions are the same. If they're not you could run into
problems if glibc expects certain kernel features, but I don't think this
is too likely.
>
> then i checked in /boot... the System map, vmlinuz and initrd.img for
> 2.4.20 were there... lilo.conf also contained an entry... seems perfectly
> fine
>
> when i try to boot the kernel... immediately after choosing it, it says
> 'loading 2420'... 'BIOS data check'... and reboots on its own again...
> same story with 2.4.18 which i tried earlier...
>
What Processor Type is selected in menuconfig? The above error will occur
if there's a processor type mismatch. E.g., you select Athlon in your
menuconfig but are instead running an Intel processor.

> i tried modifying lilo.conf... so it loads the kernel without doing a bios
> check by appending "nobd" to the entry... but it still stuffs up... which
> leads me to think that its not the bios data check either...
>
> i am baffled with this thing... its bizarre... what am i doing wrong?
> could it be that i dont have the right options checked in make menuconfig?
>
> i dont have another machine handy to view messages thru the serial
> console... am not too sure abt the specs of the laptop because its owned
> by the university and i have been given it to do my final year project...
> but it doesnt have as much memory as i would like it to have though...
> runs pretty slow...
>

What's the model number and model of the laptop? You can use that info to
search Google for the specs.
> thanks
>


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Re: [expert] Toshiba laptop + updated X = screw-up

[stefmit]

I already did that - see my follow-up comments. 4.x completely declined to 
work properly, regardless of my attempts to "reset" things, or just change 
them to something new. I had to choose 3.3.6 for things to work again, which 
is not only pathetic, but also reminds me of "the_other_OS" ;( 

Thx for help,
Stef

On Monday 15 September 2003 11:18 am, Larry Sword wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Just worked on my laptop last night, and, while doing other things,
> > decided to check the updates and chose to allow the X update to go
> > through. Of course everything worked fine (update and such), but once
> > shutting it down and restarting it this morning, in the office - X is
> > broken. What do I mean by this? When starting, the screen shows lots of
> > colored lines in the upper portion, after which it brings up the login
> > (what used to be) acreen, but with no dialog box for input, or
> > possibility to do anything (actually I can pick the username, which is
> > still visible, but I cannot "guess" where the password field may be ...
> > let alone the fact that this would come up - probably - with more weird
> > stuff, even if able to login.
> >
> >In the rest, another tty (CLI) works just fine, as does non-init 5 levels.
> >Anybody having any idea what could have broken with the new X? I would
> >appreciate any help, as I am stuck now with a Windows box, readin/writing
> > email using a browser, and all my weekend work dependent on my laptop
> > (unless deciding to install Openoffice in Windows).
> >
> >Thx,
> >Stef
>
> Stef,
>
> As root run "XFdrake" and reset your X system.
>
> Larry


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[expert] [Fwd: Printer not working]

[diego]

As sometimes my mails seem that not getting into the list (not the only
one as I see by other mails), I send this mail again just if that was
the case and someone can help / give a hint in my "no printing"
problem...


--- Begin Message ---
I can't get printer to work. When I try to print from let's say
Mozilla, the printer does nothing but no error message is displayed. The
same happens if I do a 'lp sample_text_file' (no errors, nothing
printed).

But if I do a 'cat "hello" > /dev/lp0' it does print it...

'lpstat -t' gives:
scheduler is running
system default destination: HP815C
device for HP815C: /dev/lp0
HP815C accepting requests since Jan 01 00:00
printer HP815C is idle.  enabled since Jan 01 00:00


What am I missing? I have tried to solve it myself and google around
but no luck  :-(

Thanks in advance


-- 
   Diego  Dominguez 
  __/\__  
 |  | 
 Andalucia  /\  Spain
\/
 |__  __| 
\/

--- End Message ---
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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Anne Wilson]

On Monday 15 Sep 2003 10:25 am, T. Ribbrock wrote:

> That leaves only the product "download edition" if I do want the
> distro, which is a pity.
>
I would have much more sympathy with your argument if you had at any 
point said 'so I'll take the download version and join the club' or 
'make a donation'.  Without that, it sounds like another freeload to 
me.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


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Re: [expert] Partitions

[Anne Wilson]

On Monday 15 Sep 2003 2:50 am, Gary Montalbine wrote:
>
> Also IIRC Anne did a TWiki on moving her /usr directory. I was
> unable to find it. Anne if you are reading this where did you put
> it?
>
http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/Problems

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
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Re: [expert] Re: SOYO + AMD XP2500: new mobo

[Greg Meyer]

On Sunday 14 September 2003 11:57 pm, Rolf Pedersen wrote:
> 
> Greg Meyer wrote:

> > 
> > IDE0 (VIA Primary) hde, hdf  ==> My burner attached here
> > IDE1 (VIA Secondary) hdg, hdh ==> My cdrom
> > IDE2 (Highpoint Primary) hda, hdb ==> My boot drive
> > IDE3 (Highpoint Secndary) hdc, hdd ==> My spare drive
> > 
> > You can switch the order of IDE0,1 and IDE2,3 by passing ide=reverse to 
the 
> > kernel at boot, so that your VIA channels will hold hda, hdb, hdc and hdd 
and 
> > the Highpoint channels will hold hde, hdf, hdg, and hdh.
> > 
> 
> That's interesting.  On the IWill, with ALi M1647 chipset, IDE0 and 1, 
> the normal ide channels, are hda-hdd.  The Highpoint channels come out 
> as hde-hdg.  My concern about the cdrom on hdg was based on this 
> configuration and I didn't know it would be different for different 
> chipsets.
> 
I think it depends more on the BIOS than the chipset, but nonetheless it can 
be different.
-- 
/g

"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside
a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx

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Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.

[Anne Wilson]

On Monday 15 Sep 2003 1:48 am, Charlie wrote:
> Disclaimer:-
> I am a freeloader paying only for the media upon which the O/S was
> written. I would probably have used windows, however, I couldn't
> afford it. In an attempt to pay my way and in gratitude to Mandrake
> and Linux, I mention Linux everywhere, and Mandrake in particular,
> because it is my Linux of preference. In the footer of the front
> page of every document I write is the following:-
>
But you see, in my book that says you are not a freeloader.  Of 
course, Thomas also pays in other ways.  The only reason that I saw 
his situation as freeloading was because he started by saying that he 
would have bought, had not the matter of advertisements arisen - in 
other words, he could have afforded.  That's a different matter.

But it is so very important, I think, to say often and loudly that if 
we value linux we must pay by whatever coin we can offer, be it cash 
or time and effort in coding, documentation or promotion.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
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Re: [expert] Video processing box

[Birkoff]

I didn't read all the replies, but here goes my opinions:
- sound chip on the mobo real stinks. they arecheap solutions for cheap 
sound. My sugestion is to buy a separate soundcard (audigy2 from SB is 
an example.)
- for video U really need a "full" video-card. Don't go with MX stuff. 
Better buy a geforce 4 TI 4200-4400. Of course with TV out &stuff.
- as for the mobo: Asus is your choice. I have many examples of working 
solutins on asus mobos.
- agp 8x is a plus. not a giant leap from 4x but a slightest faster.
- also by the fastest ddram U can put on the mobo.
- on board lan is ok. they usually have realtek or intel. both reliable.
- try alo thinking of an aquisition card such as Pinnacle Studio DV / DV 
plus. I didn't tested on linux.

Everything else is tested and working under linux (mandrake mainly).

On Saturday 13 September 2003 21:46, Anne Wilson wrote:
> I want to build a box whose main purpose would be video capture from
> camcorder and vhs, editing, and burning to either vcd or dvd.  All
> funds available should go into the most essential bits for that
> purpose, so I'd like some opinions, please.
>
> Mobo - I'm torn between Asus A7v8X-X and Soltek SL-KT400-A4C.  Specs
> are very similar.  Both have Via KT400/VT8235 chipsets.
>
> Asus has 8x agp and Soltek has 4x agp
>
> Asus has Realtek 6-chanel codec, which I take to mean on-board sound,
> and Soltek has 6-ch AC'97 Audio.  I've always avoided on-board audio
> in the past, disabling it and putting in a card.  Is that still worth
> the effort/expense?
>
> Asus also offers on-board lan.  I think these have been troublesome?
>
> Graphics cards - since I don't do gaming I've not been into the
> latest thing in video cards, so I don't know what is significant and
> what is hype.  I'm looking at 128MB XFX Geforce4 MX44- or FX5200.  I
> could go higher if there's a real advantage.  Any thoughts?
>
> Any comments about anything I haven't mentioned that is significant
> in this scenario?
>
> Anne

Hope answers your questions
-- 
Birkoff

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Re: [expert] Video processing box

[Birkoff]

I didnt' get the DC 10+ working under linux. tried many combinations. 
only gost some smoke out of it (literally). There are some drivers 
available but old enugh. And it has only S-video in/out and Composite 
in/out. Does not have fireware and also does not have anny support from 
pinnacle. not even under windows :(

On Sunday 14 September 2003 00:31, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> Am Samstag, 13. September 2003 22:45 schrieb Anne Wilson:
> > On Saturday 13 Sep 2003 8:35 pm, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> > > Am Samstag, 13. September 2003 21:00 schrieb ed tharp:
> > > > My opinion...
> > > > Forget all the video cards and sound stuff,,, the 128 meg mem
> > > > Video card is over kill, and the AC97 6 channel sound should be
> > > > fine too.
> > >
> > > Agree
> >
> > OK - sound isn't a problem then.  So, video card and capture? 
> > There are two issues here - vhs and the current camcorder's
> > analogue signal, for which I have been advised to use a Pinnacle
> > DC10+ and V4l, and firewire, which I will need next spring when we
> > buy a new camcorder.  I have firewire on this box on the Audigy
> > card, but only a 900 MHz processor (though 512MB RAM).  I had
> > thought of adding a firewire card to the new box when I buy the new
> > camcorder.
>
> A DC10+ is good i think. Ermmh this is a mjpeg card isn't it ? Sorry
> for the confusion, i think that is the card that is recommended ny
> the mjpegtools guys as well. For firewire, some new boards have that
> onboard. I have bought a firewire extension card for this back then i
> got my dv camcorder.
>
> > I had planned for 512MB RAM - are you saying that's not really
> > enough?
>
> I would say 512 is ok. , f.i. 256 would definitly be to few ram. (my
> opinion)
>
> > > > The real bottle neck is going to be hard drive write speed.
> > > > during capture that is. my suggestion might be to go with 2
> > > > different boxes, since capture is one thing and rendering a
> > > > full different set of problems and bottlenecks. capture is just
> > > > as fast and accurate as long as the drive keeps up,
> > >
> > > Do not agree here really. Today you can capture with a midrange
> > > recent machine divx in realtime.
> > >
> > > > and the quality of the capture card and
> > > > signal input is more important than video card.
> > >
> > > Agree absolutly. Depending on the plans how much will be captured
> > > with that box, i would even consider to buy a dv-capture card.
> > > (not a firewire card, but a card that does the dv-encoding in
> > > hardware)
> >
> > Recommemdations, then?
>
> See above, sorry for the confusion. The DC10 should be perfect. For
> exact model i would search trough the mjpeg mailinglist archiv. My
> thought was just that you shouldn't really consider using a tv-card
> or the like for capturing.
>
> > > >  get all the memory you can stuff on the Mobo (up to around
> > > > 750, really no advantage above that unless you can go greater
> > > > than 2 gigs memory) most folks used to swear you had to have
> > > > fast wide scsi2 hard drives at least, but I am sure IDE udma4
> > > > or faster, and as large a hard drive cache as available will
> > > > help.
> > >
> > > scsi2 is overkill i would say, the latter you are right again, as
> > > much disk-space as possible.
> >
> > I thought of scsi2, but it's very expensive, so it would have to be
> > worth a lot more.  I planned a 7200 120GB disk.  It would have very
> > little on apart from the needs of the job.

Sata is new but cheaper than scsi. But SPACE is the main problem. 
120-300 gb is what you need.

>
> I have a Samsung 5400 120 Gig with 2MB cache here an plan to buy a
> second one in near future. 120 Gig = 50 hours dvb mpeg2, does not
> know how much you have to calculate for mjpeg and how fast the hd has
> to be. If you plan to make some video dvd i guess you can't get
> enough. scsi2 i think isn't worth the money here. For a definitly
> answer i would ask on mjpegtools mailinglist.
>
> Steffen

-- 
Birkoff

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Re: [expert] Video processing box

[Birkoff]

1 gb at least. 512 is minimum. anyway now ddram is cheap enough.

On Sunday 14 September 2003 03:23, ed tharp wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 17:31, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 13. September 2003 22:45 schrieb Anne Wilson:
> > > On Saturday 13 Sep 2003 8:35 pm, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> > > > Am Samstag, 13. September 2003 21:00 schrieb ed tharp:
> > > > > My opinion...
> > > > > Forget all the video cards and sound stuff,,, the 128 meg mem
> > > > > Video card is over kill, and the AC97 6 channel sound should
> > > > > be fine too.
> > > >
> > > > Agree
> > >
> > > OK - sound isn't a problem then.  So, video card and capture? 
> > > There are two issues here - vhs and the current camcorder's
> > > analogue signal, for which I have been advised to use a Pinnacle
> > > DC10+ and V4l, and firewire, which I will need next spring when
> > > we buy a new camcorder.  I have firewire on this box on the
> > > Audigy card, but only a 900 MHz processor (though 512MB RAM).  I
> > > had thought of adding a firewire card to the new box when I buy
> > > the new camcorder.
> >
> > A DC10+ is good i think. Ermmh this is a mjpeg card isn't it ?
> > Sorry for the confusion, i think that is the card that is
> > recommended ny the mjpegtools guys as well. For firewire, some new
> > boards have that onboard. I have bought a firewire extension card
> > for this back then i got my dv camcorder.
> >
> > > I had planned for 512MB RAM - are you saying that's not really
> > > enough?
> >
> > I would say 512 is ok. , f.i. 256 would definitly be to few ram.
> > (my opinion)
> >
> > > > > The real bottle neck is going to be hard drive write speed.
> > > > > during capture that is. my suggestion might be to go with 2
> > > > > different boxes, since capture is one thing and rendering a
> > > > > full different set of problems and bottlenecks. capture is
> > > > > just as fast and accurate as long as the drive keeps up,
> > > >
> > > > Do not agree here really. Today you can capture with a midrange
> > > > recent machine divx in realtime.
> > > >
> > > > > and the quality of the capture card and
> > > > > signal input is more important than video card.
> > > >
> > > > Agree absolutly. Depending on the plans how much will be
> > > > captured with that box, i would even consider to buy a
> > > > dv-capture card. (not a firewire card, but a card that does the
> > > > dv-encoding in hardware)
> > >
> > > Recommemdations, then?
> >
> > See above, sorry for the confusion. The DC10 should be perfect. For
> > exact model i would search trough the mjpeg mailinglist archiv. My
> > thought was just that you shouldn't really consider using a tv-card
> > or the like for capturing.
>
> ahhh,,, this has both sides... the difference in price of an old
> winTV card vs that DC10 can sure make for the purchase of that extra
> 256 meg ram work out easier, and if it was me, I would go for the
> ram, if I was only running 256.
> if you have a wide pipe, I captured a video since we have been
> talking about it. I have recorded with a sony handycam running hi8
> tape, and captured using my wintv card in cinelerra. it might be more
> choppy than normal since I set the capture to 29 frames and was
> installing software at the same time.
> (http://ed-tharp.is-a-geek.org/kayla1.mpg)
>
> > > > >  get all the memory you can stuff on the Mobo (up to around
> > > > > 750, really no advantage above that unless you can go greater
> > > > > than 2 gigs memory) most folks used to swear you had to have
> > > > > fast wide scsi2 hard drives at least, but I am sure IDE udma4
> > > > > or faster, and as large a hard drive cache as available will
> > > > > help.
> > > >
> > > > scsi2 is overkill i would say, the latter you are right again,
> > > > as much disk-space as possible.
> > >
> > > I thought of scsi2, but it's very expensive, so it would have to
> > > be worth a lot more.  I planned a 7200 120GB disk.  It would have
> > > very little on apart from the needs of the job.
> >
> > I have a Samsung 5400 120 Gig with 2MB cache here an plan to buy a
> > second one in near future. 120 Gig = 50 hours dvb mpeg2, does not
> > know how much you have to calculate for mjpeg and how fast the hd
> > has to be. If you plan to make some video dvd i guess you can't get
> > enough. scsi2 i think isn't worth the money here. For a definitly
> > answer i would ask on mjpegtools mailinglist.
> >
> > Steffen
> >
> >
> > ___
> >___
> >
> > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
> > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

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---
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---

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Re: [expert] Toshiba laptop + updated X = screw-up

[Birkoff]

can't U try now to put back the original XFree 4 from the CDs?
urpm can help.

On Monday 15 September 2003 15:05, stefmit wrote:
> Switched to 3.3.6, and everything is OK (except for fonts in KDE,
> which are very ugly ... ) - still hoping for a 4.x fix ...
>
> On Monday 15 September 2003 06:29 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Thank you for the quick answer - this is what I did not know for
> > sure: if I can "downgrade" to an earlier version of X, after
> > "upgrading" to the new one (more secure, 'cause I can't use it ;)).
> > I am going right now through XFDrake (which I assume will work even
> > under CLI), to see if I can repair the new X, first. This reminds
> > me of another OS, which delivers Service Packs, followed by
> > "patches", then "hotfixes" ;(
> >
> > Just out of curiosity: anybody else with a Toshiba 8100 around
> > here, having had issues with the patched X?
> >
> > Thx again,
> > Stef
> >
> > > In a pinch, use Knoppix to autoconfigure X and then overwrite the
> > > XF86Config/Config-4 of Mandrake. If it's just a configuration
> > > problem than that might work. If not and X is toast, then a
> > > downgrade to an earlier version of X might be the only fix. This,
> > > of course, will have to be done from the CLI.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >Just worked on my laptop last night, and, while doing other
> > > > things, decided to check the updates and chose to allow the X
> > > > update to go through. Of course everything worked fine (update
> > > > and such), but once shutting it down and restarting it this
> > > > morning, in the office - X is broken. What do I mean by this?
> > > > When starting, the screen shows lots of colored lines in the
> > > > upper portion, after which it brings up the login (what used to
> > > > be) acreen, but with no dialog box for input, or possibility to
> > > > do anything (actually I can pick the username, which is still
> > > > visible, but I cannot "guess" where the password field
> > > >
> > > >may be ... let alone the fact that this would come up - probably
> > > > - with more weird stuff, even if able to login.
> > > >
> > > >In the rest, another tty (CLI) works just fine, as does non-init
> > > > 5 levels. Anybody having any idea what could have broken with
> > > > the new X? I would appreciate any help, as I am stuck now with
> > > > a Windows box, readin/writing email using a browser, and all my
> > > > weekend work dependent on my laptop (unless deciding to install
> > > > Openoffice in Windows).
> > > >
> > > >Thx,
> > > >Stef

-- 
---
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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---

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Re: [expert] Video processing box

[Charles A Edwards]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:02:19 +0300
Birkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I didn't read all the replies, but here goes my opinions:
> - sound chip on the mobo real stinks. they arecheap solutions for
> cheap sound. My sugestion is to buy a separate soundcard (audigy2 from
> SB is an example.)

I disagree here.
The  C-Media Electronics Inc|CM8738 [MULTIMEDIA_AUDIO]
is an excellent onboard sound chip featuring 6-channel snd which I would
rate equal to even a 'high-end' SB card in linux.

lsmod
Module  Size  Used byTainted: P   
ipt_LOG ipt_state ipt_multiport ipt_conntrack iptable_filter
iptable_mangle iptable_nat] snd-seq-midi5632   0 
(autoclean) (unused) snd-opl3-synth 13832   0  (autoclean)
(unused) snd-seq-midi-emul   7524   0  (autoclean) [snd-opl3-synth]
snd-seq-instr   8332   0  (autoclean) [snd-opl3-synth]
snd-ainstr-fm   3192   0  (autoclean) [snd-opl3-synth]
snd-seq-oss37152   0  (unused)
snd-seq-midi-event  6592   0  [snd-seq-midi snd-seq-oss]
snd-seq49840   2  [snd-seq-midi snd-opl3-synth
snd-seq-midi-emul snd-seq-instr snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event]
snd-pcm-oss46820   0 snd-mixer-oss  15992   1 
[snd-pcm-oss] snd-cmipci 26808   1 
snd-pcm90592   0  [snd-pcm-oss snd-cmipci]
snd-page-alloc 10228   0  [snd-pcm]
snd-mpu401-uart 5436   0  [snd-cmipci]
snd-rawmidi19488   0  [snd-seq-midi snd-mpu401-uart]
snd-opl3-lib9156   0  [snd-opl3-synth snd-cmipci]
snd-timer  20932   0  [snd-seq snd-pcm snd-opl3-lib]
snd-hwdep   6944   0  [snd-opl3-lib]
snd-seq-device  6268   0  [snd-seq-midi snd-opl3-synth
snd-seq-oss snd-seq snd-rawmidi snd-opl3-lib] snd   
46596   0  [snd-seq-midi snd-opl3-synth snd-seq-instr snd-seq-oss
snd-seq-midi-event snd-seq snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss snd-cmipci snd-pcm
snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi snd-opl3-lib snd-timer snd-hwdep
snd-seq-device] soundcore   7236   0  [snd]
 
via-rhine  17360   1  (autoclean)

As to network most AMD/VIA boards will also feature a VIA ethernet chip
which is very good.


Charles

 

-- 
The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on.  It is never any
use to oneself.
-- Oscar Wilde
-
Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon
Kernel-2.4.22-9mdkenterprise 
-


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[John Wilson]

On September 15, 2003 02:25 am, T. Ribbrock wrote:

> > You decide that as Mandrake is getting money from elsewhere you can take
> > the free version. All I see from you is: If I have to pay, I won't take
> > it, because Mandrake gets enough money from elsewhere.
>
>  No. That's *not* what I'm saying. Maybe I need to differentiate
> more: Mandrake makes one Linux distro, but many products. I've tested
> the distro, as packed in the product "9.1 download edition". I liked
> what I saw. It's a good distro. So I want to use it. At the same time,
> I *do* agree to "fair price for a fair product", so I'm quite willing
> to buy the product "standard edition" to get the distro. However, then
> Mandrake announced their stance with regard to third-party advertising
> in their products. What they announced (forcing third-party ads on
> paying customers) is a business practice I do *not* like, no matter
> from whom. Hence, I do *not* like the product anymore, even though I
> do like the distro, cause I do *not* want to support that type of
> business practice.

Just curious here...but how do you differenciate between the product and the 
distro?  Both look curiously the same to me.

As I've kept quiet on this list about the ads let me state my own position.  I 
grew up in a country where ads are ubiquitous.  They're everywhere.  And I've 
also developed a skill that allows me to filter out what I don't want to see.  
Also, as I tend to go have coffee or lunch while I'm upgrading I don't have 
the problem at looking at things I don't want to see.  So, if the people 
paying for the ads think I'm looking at them they're probably sadly mistaken.

That said, I really don't have a problem with it.   Ads do serve two purposes.  
The first is to simply inform about products and services and the second, of 
course, is to sell said products or services.  If a Micro$oft ad shows up 
while I'm installing I'm more likely to laugh than I am to do much of 
anything else.  As for Open Software, Linux and other related ads perhaps I 
will find them interesting.  Perhaps there will be a small shop out there 
that just developed a killer way to configure IPTables (a confusing mess at 
best) with relative simplicity.  I'd probably look into it.

Small shops don't qualify, to me, as big, bad corporations.  Perhaps they do 
to you.  To me they qualify as a couple or three people trying to eek out a 
bit of a living from Linux/BSD etc or simply get some support to pay the 
bills for what they've done.  I hardly find that insulting.

A side note here...have a boo at Freshmeat or SourceForge and see how many 
developers have links for donations.  I don't think they're looking for a 
sandwich mostly because PayPal doesn't trade in those.

Ed said something about the USA earlier..that commercial influences are 
everywhere in government there.  I live in Canada and the same applies here 
as it does in every other developed country and a lot of developing countries 
in the world.  At least in so-called first-rank nations this influence is 
frequently offset by the labour movement, NGOs and a little thing called 
public opinion.  And, oh yes, Mandrake does have a couple of employees in 
Canada.

> That leaves only the product "download edition" if I do want the distro,
> which is a pity.

Which simply means getting something for nothing.  Open source and free 
software is NOT free as in beer, it is free as in available, modifiable and 
contributable.  People are perfectly free to try to make a living on it.  
Everyone, and I mean everyone, has to pay the bills.  This includes the 
developers of OpenBSD, unless they are independantly wealthy.  Except perhaps 
for you.

> If you want to call this constructed just because you don't agree with
> the reasoning, fine, be my guest. In that case we'll have to agree to
> disagree, as to me, they are *very* valid reasons - otherwise I
> wouldn't spend the time presenting them. Just "freeloading" can be had
> with much less effort... ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas

Justifying it can be take a lot of effort, too. 

Perhaps I'd feel better if you could tell me one patch you contributed to a 
CVS, one contribution you made to a project even at high level design, one 
thing you've done other than complain.  At least then I'd have to rethink my 
opinion that you are freeloading and wasting a lot of email space justifying 
it.

Regards, 

ttfn

John

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[expert] Re: Whoa there...

[T. Ribbrock]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:35:45PM +0100, Anne Wilson wrote:
> On Monday 15 Sep 2003 10:25 am, T. Ribbrock wrote:
> 
> > That leaves only the product "download edition" if I do want the
> > distro, which is a pity.
> >
> I would have much more sympathy with your argument if you had at any 
> point said 'so I'll take the download version and join the club' or 
> 'make a donation'.  Without that, it sounds like another freeload to 
> me.

I have not yet checked out the club. But you're right: I should.
As for donations: Don't you think it would be strange if I criticize
the business practice of Mandrake, then turn around and donate money
to them? No, it's far too early for that.

Cheerio,

Thomas
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Anne Wilson]

On Monday 15 Sep 2003 9:46 pm, T. Ribbrock wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:35:45PM +0100, Anne Wilson wrote:
> > On Monday 15 Sep 2003 10:25 am, T. Ribbrock wrote:
> > > That leaves only the product "download edition" if I do want
> > > the distro, which is a pity.
> >
> > I would have much more sympathy with your argument if you had at
> > any point said 'so I'll take the download version and join the
> > club' or 'make a donation'.  Without that, it sounds like another
> > freeload to me.
>
> I have not yet checked out the club. But you're right: I should.
> As for donations: Don't you think it would be strange if I
> criticize the business practice of Mandrake, then turn around and
> donate money to them? No, it's far too early for that.
>
> Cheerio,
>
> Thomas

Ummm - can't say you've changed my opinion much.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Brant Fitzsimmons]

T. Ribbrock wrote:

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:35:45PM +0100, Anne Wilson wrote:
 

On Monday 15 Sep 2003 10:25 am, T. Ribbrock wrote:

   

That leaves only the product "download edition" if I do want the
distro, which is a pity.
 

I would have much more sympathy with your argument if you had at any 
point said 'so I'll take the download version and join the club' or 
'make a donation'.  Without that, it sounds like another freeload to 
me.
   

I have not yet checked out the club. But you're right: I should.
As for donations: Don't you think it would be strange if I criticize
the business practice of Mandrake, then turn around and donate money
to them? No, it's far too early for that.
Cheerio,

Thomas

Only as strange as criticizing the business practices of Mandrake and 
then turning around and using their product for free.

--
Brant Fitzsimmons
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/
   AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk
   KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client
Uptime:
16:55:01 up 9 days,  4:11,  1 user,  load average: 0.41, 0.54, 0.29
___
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being
self-evident."
-Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)


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Re: [expert] Video processing box

[Steffen Barszus]

Am Montag, 15. September 2003 22:08 schrieb Birkoff:

> I didnt' get the DC 10+ working under linux. tried many combinations.
> only gost some smoke out of it (literally). There are some drivers
> available but old enugh. And it has only S-video in/out and Composite
> in/out. Does not have fireware and also does not have anny support
> from pinnacle. not even under windows :(

As I said. For the hardware capturing, Anne should really go to the 
mjpeg-mailinglist and ask there. These guys doing a lot of 
video-processing. 

http://mjpeg.sf.net

Steffen

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[expert] Re: Whoa there...

[T. Ribbrock]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 01:39:13PM -0700, John Wilson wrote:
> Perhaps I'd feel better if you could tell me one patch you contributed to a 
> CVS, one contribution you made to a project even at high level design, one 
> thing you've done other than complain.  At least then I'd have to rethink my 
> opinion that you are freeloading and wasting a lot of email space justifying 
> it.

I wasn't going to, as I think it's bragging (and I said it's only
small things), but since you doubt my word... On the other hand, most of
what I'll mention can be found easily with Google.
Some of the items are quite a while ago, others are ongoing as time permits.

http://www.ribbrock.org/muttix/
http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/ (Acknowledgements)
Smaller bugfixes/testing for plan, wmWeather 1.x, Xdialog 1.x, quicklist and
others I've forgotten
Testing and some contrib RPMs for Aurora Sparc Linux (see aurora-sparc-devel)
http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rbdebeer/openbsd.html (Revisie historie)
Some testing for SANE on Sparc (see sane-devel)
You can also find the odd contrib (RH) RPM floating around the web packaged
by me, though I rarely have the time to publish these properly these
days...
...and a few other bits and pieces (like e.g. bugreports, mailing list
help on e.g. redhat-list)

Happy now?

(Apologies to those who *didn't* ask for this - I know it's not much
compared to the bigwigs)

Thomas
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

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[expert] Re: (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.

[T. Ribbrock]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:45:29PM +0100, Anne Wilson wrote:
[...]
> Of course, Thomas also pays in other ways.  The only reason that I saw 
> his situation as freeloading was because he started by saying that he 
> would have bought, had not the matter of advertisements arisen - in 
> other words, he could have afforded.

Yes, I could have. I have given my reasons for not doing so and I
stand by them.

I've also offered the alternative of offering ad-free products for a
higher price than the ad-ware. If it's money Mandrake needs, this
could be a nice alternative, IMO. Curiously, no-one ever commented on
that. And yes, to me, this is important enough that I *would* pay a higher
price.

Regards,

Thomas (who expects to get a sh*t load of mail should Mandrake ever
decide to actually offer such a product... >:-) )
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

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[expert] ACL Support in 9.2

[Norman Zhang]

Hi,

I've searched the cooker and expert archives. But I couldn't find any
conclusive answer rather 9.2 kernel includes XFS and ACL support. I believe
ACL support was removed from the initial 9.1 kernel. Would someone care to
update me on this?

Regards,
Norman




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Re: [expert] Re: (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.

[Charlie M.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

September 15, 2003 03:37 pm, T. Ribbrock wrote:


> I've also offered the alternative of offering ad-free products for a
> higher price than the ad-ware. If it's money Mandrake needs, this
> could be a nice alternative, IMO. Curiously, no-one ever commented on
> that. And yes, to me, this is important enough that I *would* pay a
> higher price.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas (who expects to get a sh*t load of mail should Mandrake ever
> decide to actually offer such a product... >:-) )

Look, I really don't give a shit what anybody else does or doesn't do 
with regard to supporting or not supporting MandrakeSoft. It's 
immaterial. I do what I do and I have a clear conscience. If yours 
isn't that's your problem.

That's a generic "yours" BTW; each of us knows whether we have anything 
to feel guilty over and I don't want to read justifications, or have to 
keep hitting delete.

Let's just let this crap die and get on with the utilization of this 
list for what it was intended, *please!*

Thanks;
Charlie
- -- 
Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org
Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-9mdk
15:50:07 up 3:15, 1 user, load average: 0.39, 0.28, 0.22
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do 
nothing.
- - Edmund Burke
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Re: [expert] ACL Support in 9.2

[Thomas Backlund]

Norman Zhang kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Tiistai 16 Syyskuu 2003 
00:43):
>
> Hi,
>
> I've searched the cooker and expert archives. But I couldn't find any
> conclusive answer rather 9.2 kernel includes XFS and ACL support. I believe
> ACL support was removed from the initial 9.1 kernel. Would someone care to
> update me on this?
>
> Regards,
> Norman
>

It's in the update kernel for 9.1, and has been with the Cooker kernels since 
that...
So for 9.2 there will be acl support for XFS, and _maybe_ for ReiserFS and 
ext2/ext3...


-- 
Regards

Thomas


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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[John Wilson]

On September 15, 2003 02:29 pm, T. Ribbrock wrote:

>
> Happy now?
>
> (Apologies to those who *didn't* ask for this - I know it's not much
> compared to the bigwigs)
>
> Thomas

Actually yes.  And in that case I withdraw my accusations of freeloading.

But I repectfully still disagree with you. 

ttfn

John

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[expert] NIS question: how can I have clients use NIS for authentication

[Apollo (Carmel Entertainment)]

I have NIS server set-up. Now I want to have client to have all centralized
authentication. How can I make client (all mandrakes 9.1) to pick up passwords
and users from central NIS server?
This way when I make NFS export accessible to lets say user X, I don't have to
go to client machine and make sure that user X is same UID number as on the server.
Thanks,
Apollo

-
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Re: [expert] Re: (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.

[Bill]

Why is it when I go to my local Fry's I see rows of Red Hat boxes some BSD 
boxes and Slackware CD's but never see Mandrake boxes. I would gladly 
purchase Mandrake instead of downloading it if it was in the stores. Seems to 
me that Mandrake needs to get there product out on the shelves. I can 
purchase Red Hat all over the place here in Silicon Valley but Mandrake is 
hard to find. Why is that? Before Mandrake starts in with the adware they 
need to make sure there product is out on the shelves next to Red Hat. 

If you want to sell your product ya gota make it available to the public. Not 
everyone can download the iso's and make the cd's. There are still peole 
using modems! 

I belong to the club and I do download the iso's but at 144K it does take a 
long time. I would prefere to just purchase the boxed set when I drop by my 
local computer store. If it aint there I cant buy it. Im not going to search 
hi and low for it. Geez RH is all over out here.

On Star Date Monday 15 September 2003 02:37 pm, T. Ribbrock sent this 
sub-space message. 
 
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:45:29PM +0100, Anne Wilson wrote:
> [...]
>
> > Of course, Thomas also pays in other ways.  The only reason that I saw
> > his situation as freeloading was because he started by saying that he
> > would have bought, had not the matter of advertisements arisen - in
> > other words, he could have afforded.
>
> Yes, I could have. I have given my reasons for not doing so and I
> stand by them.
>
> I've also offered the alternative of offering ad-free products for a
> higher price than the ad-ware. If it's money Mandrake needs, this
> could be a nice alternative, IMO. Curiously, no-one ever commented on
> that. And yes, to me, this is important enough that I *would* pay a higher
> price.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas (who expects to get a sh*t load of mail should Mandrake ever
> decide to actually offer such a product... >:-) )

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[expert] Startup Script

[Gonzalo Avaria]

Hi experts
I have a little question, i would like to have a script on the startup (could 
be init.d) that should do two command lines:

/sbin/ifconfig eth0 | fgrep -i inet | cut -d : -f 2 | cut -d \  -f 1 &> 
ipnumero
mail -s "IP Number" [EMAIL PROTECTED] < ipnumero

I don´t know how to do a script, and have been looking but with no success.
So, anyone can tell me where should i go to have an answer or someone can help 
me with this???
Thank you for your time

--
Gonzalo Avaria S.
Linux User from the end of the World
CHILE

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Re: [expert] Serial terminal program for Linux?

[Glenn Burkhardt]

On Sunday 14 September 2003 08:10 pm, Richard Urwin wrote:
> The programmer has a human readable interface, and dumps and receives
> intel hex format. All I need to do is the equivilent to
> cat file.hex >/dev/Stty0
> after issueing the relevant send command to the progammer.

I'm not familiar with Intel hex format, but 'kermit' will let you send the 
file with 

C-Kermit>< cat file.hex

or 

C-Kermit>redirect cat file.hex




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Re: [expert] bios data check failure

[James Sparenberg]

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 09:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > the thing is i did everything up to make modules on a fast machine on the
> > network... and then went back to my laptop... mounted my home directory
> > with the linux-2.4.20 directory on it... and proceeded with make
> > modules_install and make install... could that be a problem? my
> > supervisors say it isnt possible though...
> 
> No, that shouldn't be it. It's fine to build on another machine, providing
> that the distributions are the same. If they're not you could run into
> problems if glibc expects certain kernel features, but I don't think this
> is too likely.

One question here.  Is a journaled filesystem being used?  If so the
initrd img will NOT work when built on another box.  You can move the
kernel and modules over but the initrd.img has to be built on the box to
be used.  

If you are using ext2 you could get away with an initrid.img, but if
it's reiser, jfs, or xfs you have to have the initrid.(so that the
modules to read the fs are available.)  Not sure on ext3 but I believe
it has the same constraints.


> >
> > then i checked in /boot... the System map, vmlinuz and initrd.img for
> > 2.4.20 were there... lilo.conf also contained an entry... seems perfectly
> > fine
> >
> > when i try to boot the kernel... immediately after choosing it, it says
> > 'loading 2420'... 'BIOS data check'... and reboots on its own again...
> > same story with 2.4.18 which i tried earlier...
> >
> What Processor Type is selected in menuconfig? The above error will occur
> if there's a processor type mismatch. E.g., you select Athlon in your
> menuconfig but are instead running an Intel processor.
> 
> > i tried modifying lilo.conf... so it loads the kernel without doing a bios
> > check by appending "nobd" to the entry... but it still stuffs up... which
> > leads me to think that its not the bios data check either...
> >
> > i am baffled with this thing... its bizarre... what am i doing wrong?
> > could it be that i dont have the right options checked in make menuconfig?
> >
> > i dont have another machine handy to view messages thru the serial
> > console... am not too sure abt the specs of the laptop because its owned
> > by the university and i have been given it to do my final year project...
> > but it doesnt have as much memory as i would like it to have though...
> > runs pretty slow...
> >
> 
> What's the model number and model of the laptop? You can use that info to
> search Google for the specs.
> > thanks
> >
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
> Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
-- 
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.


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RE: [expert] HELP!! Opening firewall ports to allow conter strike online gaming...

[Brandon Vanderberg]

The default is 27015 but some servers use different ports. 
In CS, look in the menu, and go to server info. 
So if you allow your local net to go out on that dst port,
you should be good to go. Works here. 

HTH


Brandon

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Roberto 
> Armenteros
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 9:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [expert] HELP!! Opening firewall ports to allow conter strike
> online gaming...
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, I am running an ipchains firewall on my
> router. I have most ports closed, but I need to open
> the counter strike port to play online games "I dont
> know exactly what port this involves." Can somebody
> give me the proper rules to allow my CS client to
> connect to servers and be able to play online!!! I
> have deny all default rules.
> 
> Any input on this will be truly appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> Bob.
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> 
> 

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Re: [expert] Nvidia, accelerated 3D support... I'm lost

[James Sparenberg]

On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 13:09, Charlie M. wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> September 11, 2003 12:33 am, Charlie M. wrote:
> > September 11, 2003 12:16 am, James Sparenberg wrote:
>  
> > Charlie,
> >
> >what do you think the chances are the 2.6 would run on 9.1? (I
> > won't even ask about Win4Lin enabling it *grin*)  I need to do some
> > experiments and I need a known system to make sure that any problems
> > I have are kernel related not otherwise.  Thanks.
> >
> > James
> 
> Howdy James and other 'listers;'
> 
> My son's system is now cooker current; but the 2.6test kernel on his now 
> defunct 9.1 install was a PITA. Too many things for a non-guru such as 
> myself to reconfigure/recompile/reinstall to be feasible at my current 
> "skill level."
> 
> It seems problematic even on a pure cooker install so I left him a ton 
> of reading material and links to websites to go through; the same list 
> I'll be perusing in my "spare time" to try to get something bootable 
> and  running. He's also been told to subscribe to the list when he has 
> anything of value to report, or questions that neither of us have the 
> skills to solve. 
> 
> If a kid name Josh and calling himself 'fpsnut' (frames per second nut) 
> appears, be sure to give him a hard time. He'll expect no less. 
> 
> I'll start a new thread if and when I get something workable going, or 
> join one if and when.

Thanks



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Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.

[johnnydeppert]

Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
 *** Lee Wiggers Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:33:06 -0400 :


Let's see if I understand this.  Mdk sells advertising for megabucks
to companies who want to reach mdk users.
Mdk users simply avoid gui install and avoid adverts.

What a nice day.


I' think there'll be small text-based ads in the text install then. Of
course, the majority of users will use the graphics installer, so the
ads will reach their readers.
Well, for the 'knowing' there's always a way, isn't it?

I guess the main thing will be the website ads. And so far I don't feel
annoyed by the Mandrake ads, why should I be annoyed by Thwates or even
AMD? It'll be a whole other story reading "XXX-RPMs for the adult
Linuxer!" or "Download jay-lo-ass-showing-1.0.1-1mdk.rpm NOW!" ;-)
wobo
Hmm, I did an
$ urpmi.update updates cooker cooker2 base-ftp hotties ;
urpmi jay-lo-ass-showing
and couldn't find this rpm- is it one of the plf packages?

Please help me!  I haven't been this excited about software in a long time!

-DS


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Re: [expert] Serial terminal program for Linux?

[Richard Urwin]

On Tuesday 16 Sep 2003 1:58 am, Glenn Burkhardt wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2003 08:10 pm, Richard Urwin wrote:
> > The programmer has a human readable interface, and dumps and
> > receives intel hex format. All I need to do is the equivilent to
> > cat file.hex >/dev/Stty0
> > after issueing the relevant send command to the progammer.
>
> I'm not familiar with Intel hex format, but 'kermit' will let you
> send the file with
>
> C-Kermit>< cat file.hex
>
> or
>
> C-Kermit>redirect cat file.hex

Thanks for that. I tried minicom last night, and it will probably do 
what I want, but not easily or neatly.

There's a niche for a new application here, and I may be just the person 
to write it. Stay tuned...

-- 
Richard Urwin

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Re: [expert] Re: Whoa there...

[Vincent Danen]

On Mon Sep 15, 2003 at 02:20:21PM +0200, Guy Van Sanden wrote:

> > BSD would be a kernel just as linux is just a kernel. I bet 100%of the
> > companies using BSD and apache-PHP/mySQL on their webserver would not be
> > there without mySQL, how good is BSD without any of the programs that
> > are packed with it? same thing bud. 
> > 
> 
> BSD is not a kernel like Linux, it is an OS.
> GNU provided the utilities on top of Linux, which make up the entire OS,
> BSD is a whole, kernel, system utilities etc all in one, and it doesn't
> have distributions.  (Open/Free/NetBSD do have common roots, but are
> seperate OS's)
> 
> Although it is a complete OS, applications are still another matter, be
> they an X-server, Windowmanager or webserver, you have the same choice
> there as you do on Linux (Apache, KDE, ...).

About all you can do with BSD "out of the box" without any additional
software (corporately funded or otherwise) is run a firewall.  You can do
the same with GNU/Linux.

The argument is irrelevant.  No one uses BSD for "just BSD" unless it's
academic.  They use BSD with Apache, MySQL, whatever.  No one just uses the
kernel and base utils.  If you want to do something with it, chances are
quite good that whatever app/server software/whatever you're running on top
of your nice free OS was commercially sponsored and/or developed.

Comparing Linux to BSD in this way is just plain stupid.  For the current
argument, there is no difference in terms of how you use the OS (unless, as
I said, it's academic).

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

[expert] Re: Startup Script

[T. Ribbrock]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:21:13PM -0400, Gonzalo Avaria wrote:
> I have a little question, i would like to have a script on the startup (could 
> be init.d) that should do two command lines:
> 
> /sbin/ifconfig eth0 | fgrep -i inet | cut -d : -f 2 | cut -d \  -f 1 &> 
> ipnumero
> mail -s "IP Number" [EMAIL PROTECTED] < ipnumero
> 
> I don´t know how to do a script, and have been looking but with no success.

It depends a bit on whether you want this script to run independend of
the run level you're booting into or not. If you're happy with your
script being run for all run levels, the easiest way is to add what
you describe above to "rc.local" (it's in the /etc directory
hierarchy), probably best somewhere near the end. It will then be
executed on boot, IIRC pretty much at the end of the boot process. I
think that rc.local will not be run if you boot into single user mode,
but that's a Good Thing[tm].

If you want you're script to run only for certain runlevels, things
get slightly more complicated. The scripts as such are placed into
/etc/rc.d/init.d (if I'm not mistaken - can't check right now) and
then symbolic links are made per runlevel. I've done that once or
twice, but it's too long ago to give instructions off the top of my
head. I'm pretty certain somebody else will be able to do so.

Cheerio,

Thomas
-- 
-
Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org 
  "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"

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