Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't (OT)
On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 08:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bush and Cheney are not part of the problem. If the structure beneath them needs repair, I still don't blame them. They have done a good job so far. For the record, I happen to agree with you. The one snag I've seen lately was when the President told Israel to back off. I did'nt understand that then and I'm still confused. As for Lyvim, I'm not where you live or where you're from, but we have it good in the US. I'm in the US, as a matter of fact. :) A LOT of other countries tax 50%+ Yes...but you might note that the US generally has the highest standard of living (with the possible exception of Sweden), while the rest of the world in many cases goes lacking. It is somewhat of a demonstration that the quality of life is not a function of how high the taxes are; in fact it's best not to give the dems a reason to raise taxes; that's a slippery slope (like the income tax that was imposed on us) that you might not want to explore. ;) Speaking of slippery slopes, it looks like M$ will continue it's monopoly violations without government opposition, and then probably will go on to do evil things with legislation, if the people will let them. Best Regards, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [Samba] Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Denis Vlasenko wrote: On 18 April 2002 17:33, Bill Studenmund wrote: Ahh, here's a quote from the definitions: 1.4 IPR Impairing License shall mean the GNU General Public License, the GNU Lesser/Library General Public License, and any license that requires in any instance that other software distributed with software subject to such license (a) be disclosed and distributed in source code form; (b) be licensed for purposes of making derivative works; or (c) be redistributable at no charge. So, Samba license: ... this license does not require *other software* distributed with Samba to (a) be distributed in source form; (b) be licensed or purposes of making derivative works; or (c) be redistributable at no charge. ... I think they are refering to other software distributed with the code that implements what Microsoft has patented. i.e. the other software in the same program. So it does a little more than I said. It also prevents you making code that others would have to license from you (i.e. you can't use their docs to make code that Microsoft has to license from you to use). We will weaken license a little just to escape M$ ban. (Note that M$ talks about *other software* distributed with Samba, why we should place those restrictions on it? We will place restrictions on Samba code only. And since I suspect it's the Samba code that implements what Microsoft has patented, I think that's what Microsoft has in mind. :-| The real questions are: what exactly do the patents cover, do the patents seem like they'll hold up in court (they didn't try to patent ftp for instnace), and what can be done to either not infringe on the patents, or reimplement the patent-infringing code with code covered by a GPL-compatable-BSD-style license. Take care, Bill Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [Samba] Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
On 18 Apr 2002, David Brodbeck wrote: On Thu, 2002-04-18 at 19:42, Denis Vlasenko wrote: ComputerWire predicted the release of CIFS and SMB could squash open source when news first broke of its decision to open the technology in March. As details of the CIFS license have emerged since then, it has become clear Microsoft has effectively banned open source companies from distributing implementations of CIFS, if the software is distributed under the General Public License (GPL). Samba team can release source under SPL (Samba Public License). We can play dirty games too if needed. :-) Not really. Microsoft's patent license wording apparently bans all open-source licenses, GPL just happens to be the only one they mention specifically. Are you sure? When I looked at it, it looked like it bans all licenses that place restrictions on the other code you include with it. That squarely puts it in opposition to the (L)GPL, but the BSD-style licenses should be fine. And they most certainly are open-source licenses. :-) Ahh, here's a quote from the definitions: 1.4 IPR Impairing License shall mean the GNU General Public License, the GNU Lesser/Library General Public License, and any license that requires in any instance that other software distributed with software subject to such license (a) be disclosed and distributed in source code form; (b) be licensed for purposes of making derivative works; or (c) be redistributable at no charge. So it does a little more than I said. It also prevents you making code that others would have to license from you (i.e. you can't use their docs to make code that Microsoft has to license from you to use). Take care, Bill Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 06:23, Barran, Richard wrote: I agree. But I would a couple more names to your list of people we need to vote out: Bush and Cheney. And believe me, I do everything I can to get these guys out and stop them from raping our freedoms and selling out to corporate America. Thanks, Steve On Tuesday 16 April 2002 18:46, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: The government has become increasingly intrusive over the last 20 years. Well as this mailing list now seems to cover parochial politics as well as about the Linux distribution we all know and love, who wants to start up a thread about the imminent budget announcement by the British government? I know we're in for a tax rise, but by how much, and will it be direct taxation, or a hike on petrol/fags/booze? What do you think? Better watch your grammar (word usage?); being yanks, they might think her majesty's loyal gov't is starting to tax alternative lifestyles (rather than tobacco products). Do you know our fundamental problem in Canada is? We SHOULD have inherited: British Culture, French Cuisine, and Yankee Knowhow.. Instead we got: Yankee Culture, British Cuisine, and French Knowhow... Ken. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
ken wrote: Do you know our fundamental problem in Canada is? We SHOULD have inherited: British Culture, French Cuisine, and Yankee Knowhow.. Instead we got: Yankee Culture, British Cuisine, and French Knowhow... Ken. I hate to say it but you're correct Ken. And I'm french... Go figure? :) Femme -- Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
Thus spake FemmeFatale ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): ken wrote: Do you know our fundamental problem in Canada is? We SHOULD have inherited: British Culture, French Cuisine, and Yankee Knowhow.. Instead we got: Yankee Culture, British Cuisine, and French Knowhow... Ken. I hate to say it but you're correct Ken. And I'm french... Go figure? :) Femme -- Might I point out that Britain includes Scotland, which may be the most inventive nation on the planet. Scottish know-how would be a very god thing to have. And English knowhow isn't to be sneezed at either. Newton, Priestley, John Harrison (inventor of the chronometer), ALAN TURING As usual, attempting to characterise an entire race/nation falls far short of the truth... -- |Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood| |Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has to be listened to. | |email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |phone: +1 250 370 4452 | Hermann Scherchen. | Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 16:12, Deryk Barker wrote: Thus spake FemmeFatale ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): ken wrote: Do you know our fundamental problem in Canada is? We SHOULD have inherited: British Culture, French Cuisine, and Yankee Knowhow.. Instead we got: Yankee Culture, British Cuisine, and French Knowhow... Ken. I hate to say it but you're correct Ken. And I'm french... Go figure? :) Femme -- Might I point out that Britain includes Scotland, which may be the most inventive nation on the planet. Scottish know-how would be a very god thing to have. And English knowhow isn't to be sneezed at either. Newton, Priestley, John Harrison (inventor of the chronometer), ALAN TURING As usual, attempting to characterise an entire race/nation falls far short of the truth... And I think you took me too seriously; it was all intended to be tongue-in-cheek. You still can't defend American culture tho' BTW Mandrake is French isn't it? I think it's a French apology for inflicting the Renault on us :^] Apologies to all for this LONG off topic meander.. Ken Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
What I find very troubling is the fact that the local telephone provider (Qwest) has been forcing their customers onto the MSN network. This so-called merging of Qwest and MSN will increase MSN's substantially customer base. How the h*ll did they manage to get away with this manuveur? This almost chokes off the air supply (internet access) for linux users. Sevatio David Rankin wrote: Antitrust Division, U.S. D.O.J. We the people, in order to promote fair opportunity for competition in the computer software and operating system markets, want to know why Microsoft is allowed to continue is predatory practices within the software market. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
The government has become increasingly intrusive over the last 20 years. Taxes are beyond intolerable; they are now insane. Not only that, but it's clear that the democrats are out to increase taxes further and do away with our personal freedoms; second amendment, digital, and otherwise. The one thing that the US government is supposed to do well is protect the people. So basically the government has failed miserably to do the one thing that we pay taxes and elect our officials to do; and that is protect the people. M$ now has a carte blanc to continue it's rape. A license for criminal activity. To top it all off, there is an Enron bomb simmering at the massive M$ organization that has been hushed up for years; and continues on to this day. A highly respected CPA has been attempting to blow the lid on this one since 1999. Yet no one seems to have the balls to bring it into the limelight; note that the top execs (including Gates) of M$ have been quietly selling off their stock in the company, as you check out the following URL: See: http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html The wrong people have *bought* control of the legislation system. Now you guys can get ready for a barrage of laws to be introduced that will legislate Linux and open source out of existence. They may not get the Consumer Broadband and the DMCA through, but they are going to hit us with such a barrage of new legislation that something is probably going to be slimed through the cracks. So keep your eyes peeled; it's coming. The only answer that possibly may be there is to GET THESE PARASITES OUT OF OFFICE. Offenders such as Daschel, Gephardt, and Hollings should be gotten out of power. This will require conscious political activism. On Tue, 2002-04-16 at 13:19, David Rankin wrote: Antitrust Division, U.S. D.O.J. We the people, in order to promote fair opportunity for competition in the computer software and operating system markets, want to know why Microsoft is allowed to continue is predatory practices within the software market. Of greatest concern is Microsoft's continued ability to eliminate competition and harm consumers who choose Linux as a competitior to Microsoft. The following article by Bruce Perens exemplifies our complaint that Microsoft is still able to harm competition and consumers with its practices. The issues contained within the article deserve your departments consideration and special attention. Mr. Perens article follow below the signature. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. RANKIN * BERTIN, PLLC 1329 N. University, Suite D4 Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 (936) 715-9339 fax The Microsoft penalty that isn't By Bruce Perens April 15, 2002, 12:00 PM PT In its antitrust settlement with the Justice Department and nine states, Microsoft promised to publish technology that would allow competing products to interoperate with Windows. But Microsoft has sidestepped the penalty by crafting a technology license that excludes the company's only viable competitor. Linux, which was described by Windows Division Vice President Brian Valentine as the long-term threat against Microsoft's core business, is banned from interoperating with its common Internet file system, otherwise known as Windows File and Printer Sharing. The Microsoft license specifically excludes software under the General Public License, commonly known as the GPL. The GPL is the software license used by Linux and by SAMBA, a popular open-source program that allows non-Microsoft systems to share files and printers with Windows. Microsoft has also banned software under the Lesser General Public License, or LGPL. That license is used by the Mozilla Web browser, the GNOME graphical desktop, and many of the software libraries shipped with Linux. The GPL and LGPL are the most popular licenses used for open-source software, and cover tens of thousands of free programs. A second Microsoft license on extensions used in Windows 2000 and Windows XP will require royalty payments, excluding all software produced by the open-source developer community. Because Microsoft has patented features of the file-sharing protocol, open-source developers who implement the protocol could be sued for infringement. Microsoft is likely to use this same license on future standards, embedding patented features in the standards and excluding free software like Linux from use of the patents. While patented features in file sharing would handicap Linux from being able to exchange files over an office LAN (local area network), similar future efforts could ban open-source tools like OpenOffice and AbiWord from operating with documents created using Microsoft Office, and Web browsers like Mozilla from viewing Web sites produced with Microsoft software. It's the share-and-share-alike provision of the GPL that
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
How do they force people onto MSN? On Tuesday 16 April 2002 07:00 pm, you wrote: What I find very troubling is the fact that the local telephone provider (Qwest) has been forcing their customers onto the MSN network. This so-called merging of Qwest and MSN will increase MSN's substantially customer base. How the h*ll did they manage to get away with this manuveur? This almost chokes off the air supply (internet access) for linux users. Sevatio David Rankin wrote: Antitrust Division, U.S. D.O.J. We the people, in order to promote fair opportunity for competition in the computer software and operating system markets, want to know why Microsoft is allowed to continue is predatory practices within the software market. -- Esler, Joel SGT, USA Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
On Tuesday 16 April 2002 07:00 pm, Sevatio wrote: What I find very troubling is the fact that the local telephone provider (Qwest) has been forcing their customers onto the MSN network. This so-called merging of Qwest and MSN will increase MSN's substantially customer base. How the h*ll did they manage to get away with this manuveur? This almost chokes off the air supply (internet access) for linux users. Sevatio David Rankin wrote: Antitrust Division, U.S. D.O.J. We the people, in order to promote fair opportunity for competition in the computer software and operating system markets, want to know why Microsoft is allowed to continue is predatory practices within the software market. Sevatio: Just more Microsoft innovation, that's all. Sounds like you might be searching for a new ISP. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
On Tue, 2002-04-16 at 20:00, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Tuesday 16 April 2002 07:00 pm, Sevatio wrote: What I find very troubling is the fact that the local telephone provider (Qwest) has been forcing their customers onto the MSN network. This so-called merging of Qwest and MSN will increase MSN's substantially customer base. How the h*ll did they manage to get away with this manuveur? This almost chokes off the air supply (internet access) for linux users. Sevatio David Rankin wrote: Antitrust Division, U.S. D.O.J. We the people, in order to promote fair opportunity for competition in the computer software and operating system markets, want to know why Microsoft is allowed to continue is predatory practices within the software market. Sevatio: Just more Microsoft innovation, that's all. Sounds like you might be searching for a new ISP. -- cmg ya know...they oughta just bust'em up and be done with it. Those bastards are never going to do things any other way then their established methods. Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
More partisan bullshit from Lyvim!!! Microsoft was being prosecuted rather nicely until the shrub took office, now the (in)justice department is backing off. Hollings will be experiencing the wrath of my ballot at his next time at bat, though. There are over 400 offenders to be listed why stop at three? And the dictator in cheif should top the list! mg On Tuesday 16 April 2002 19:46, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: The government has become increasingly intrusive over the last 20 years. Taxes are beyond intolerable; they are now insane. Not only that, but it's clear that the democrats are out to increase taxes further and do away with our personal freedoms; second amendment, digital, and otherwise. The one thing that the US government is supposed to do well is protect the people. So basically the government has failed miserably to do the one thing that we pay taxes and elect our officials to do; and that is protect the people. M$ now has a carte blanc to continue it's rape. A license for criminal activity. To top it all off, there is an Enron bomb simmering at the massive M$ organization that has been hushed up for years; and continues on to this day. A highly respected CPA has been attempting to blow the lid on this one since 1999. Yet no one seems to have the balls to bring it into the limelight; note that the top execs (including Gates) of M$ have been quietly selling off their stock in the company, as you check out the following URL: See: http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html The wrong people have *bought* control of the legislation system. Now you guys can get ready for a barrage of laws to be introduced that will legislate Linux and open source out of existence. They may not get the Consumer Broadband and the DMCA through, but they are going to hit us with such a barrage of new legislation that something is probably going to be slimed through the cracks. So keep your eyes peeled; it's coming. The only answer that possibly may be there is to GET THESE PARASITES OUT OF OFFICE. Offenders such as Daschel, Gephardt, and Hollings should be gotten out of power. This will require conscious political activism. On Tue, 2002-04-16 at 13:19, David Rankin wrote: Antitrust Division, U.S. D.O.J. We the people, in order to promote fair opportunity for competition in the computer software and operating system markets, want to know why Microsoft is allowed to continue is predatory practices within the software market. Of greatest concern is Microsoft's continued ability to eliminate competition and harm consumers who choose Linux as a competitior to Microsoft. The following article by Bruce Perens exemplifies our complaint that Microsoft is still able to harm competition and consumers with its practices. The issues contained within the article deserve your departments consideration and special attention. Mr. Perens article follow below the signature. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. RANKIN * BERTIN, PLLC 1329 N. University, Suite D4 Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 (936) 715-9339 fax The Microsoft penalty that isn't By Bruce Perens April 15, 2002, 12:00 PM PT In its antitrust settlement with the Justice Department and nine states, Microsoft promised to publish technology that would allow competing products to interoperate with Windows. But Microsoft has sidestepped the penalty by crafting a technology license that excludes the company's only viable competitor. Linux, which was described by Windows Division Vice President Brian Valentine as the long-term threat against Microsoft's core business, is banned from interoperating with its common Internet file system, otherwise known as Windows File and Printer Sharing. The Microsoft license specifically excludes software under the General Public License, commonly known as the GPL. The GPL is the software license used by Linux and by SAMBA, a popular open-source program that allows non-Microsoft systems to share files and printers with Windows. Microsoft has also banned software under the Lesser General Public License, or LGPL. That license is used by the Mozilla Web browser, the GNOME graphical desktop, and many of the software libraries shipped with Linux. The GPL and LGPL are the most popular licenses used for open-source software, and cover tens of thousands of free programs. A second Microsoft license on extensions used in Windows 2000 and Windows XP will require royalty payments, excluding all software produced by the open-source developer community. Because Microsoft has patented features of the file-sharing protocol, open-source developers who implement the protocol could be sued for infringement. Microsoft is likely to use this same license on future standards, embedding patented features in the standards and
Re: [expert] Microsoft - The settlement that isn't
On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:19:40 -0500 David Rankin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Antitrust Division, U.S. D.O.J. We the people, in order to promote fair opportunity for competition in the computer software and operating system markets, want to know why Microsoft is allowed to continue is predatory practices within the software market. Of greatest concern is Microsoft's continued ability to eliminate competition and harm consumers who choose Linux as a competitior to Microsoft. The following article by Bruce Perens exemplifies our complaint that Microsoft is still able to harm competition and consumers with its practices. The issues contained within the article deserve your departments consideration and special attention. Mr. Perens article follow below the signature. very interesting article. i hope it gets to many eyes and ears. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
