Re: [Factor-talk] Too ambitious a project for a newbie?
Hi Jack, Thanks for your thoughts. I too like the Forth/Factor mindset, and wonder if it could possibly be in the long run a good path to learning programming, especially as I am not ‘indoctrinated’ with more conventional programming. ‘Nimble’ is actually my working name for this idea, as the single word, ‘nimble’ sort of says it all as to what I’m after. What’s an ffi? Fatal familial insomnia? Foreign financial institute? Fine feathered idiot? Folksy, frolicking iconoclast? Stop. I’ve struggled, and am still struggling to find clear ways to describe what I’m after. A database of notes on multiple topics, accumulated over a couple of decades, such that notes on a given topic (of which there are many) are often (read: usually) distributed over many files. I want to be able to search and browse, easily and quickly form collections of blocks of notes from multiple files, manipulate these ‘thoughts’ in side by side stacks/columns/windows; search/navigate the database by keyword, by date, by topic. All this from the keyboard, no messing with toolbars, menus and mice. Minimalist UI except possibly for the virtual keyboard interface, which I hope would be more catalyst (and in effect minimalist) than a clunky intrusion. The thing about the virtual keyboard on screen is to create a customizable console represented as a virtualized, labeled keyboard rather than as dropdown menus or assigned keybindings to memorize. My hope is that this would be more flowing than menus, and less demanding of mental bandwidth than memorizing keybindings. It would probably require multiple modes like Vim has. Personally I like the modal aspect of Vim. Possibly the console thing could turn out more clunky than flowing, but I find the idea appealing to try. Probably way too large a programming challenge though, especially for a newbie, and I now have two votes for ELISP. Thanks for listening, Andy > On May 19, 2019, at 10:34 PM, Jack Lucas via Factor-talk > wrote: > > Everything except for the on screen keyboard honestly sounds like it'd find a > better fit for you by just learning emacs lisp. I'm having a harder time > understanding what exactly you want to make, probably because I've never > really encountered your use case. > > Factor is powerful, fast, and generates nice binaries though. So if you do > end up making a suite of tools they'll probably be fairly small and nimble. > Its totally up to you. I moved over from common lisp and scheme and now > almost entirely mess around with Factor exclusively. I really like the > mindset of the Forth style. > > That being said there is a GUI, and the ffi is fabulous of you need to use a > c library in making your tools. > > > Best of luck, > > Jack > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > Original Message > On May 19, 2019, 10:19 PM, Andrew McDowell < andyji...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks Александр, > > I expect I need to let go of some of the fancier ideas I have for this, and > just develop the basic components using tools at hand. I think some of what > I’m after might come under the heading of file editing, as opposed to text > editing, as I want to nimbly pick up and toss around blocks of text from > multiple files, more efficiently than laborious copy/paste, and I haven’t > found an application that does that well. Sounds like projectile goes a ways > on that sort of thing. > > Appreciate the ideas, and if anyone has any further suggestions for tools, > etc, let me know. > > Andy > > > On May 18, 2019, at 6:56 AM, Alexander Ilin > <mailto:ajs...@yandex.ru>> wrote: > > > > Hello, Andy! > > > > From my point of view, and from the software experience that I have (both > > as user and as developer), it seems to me that you could get a lot of the > > benefits you are looking for from Spacemacs with org-mode and projectile. > > That's where I'd be heading with these requirements, and then I'd adapt > > those to my needs, since the source is available, the LISP language is > > quite nice to work with, and the community is there to provide some > > guidance and support. > > > > If you want to go completely crazy with this, dive into Plan 9 or Project > > Oberon (the latter could be simpler for a novice), but I'm not sure how > > much support you could get there. You'd probably need to become a full-time > > developer to understand and modify those systems to your needs. > > > > Returning to Spacemacs, org-mode would give you the no-mouse-needed > > structured capabilities (GTD, PIM, etc.), and you could work exactly like > > what Ginko offers if you opened the same file
Re: [Factor-talk] Too ambitious a project for a newbie?
Thanks Александр, I expect I need to let go of some of the fancier ideas I have for this, and just develop the basic components using tools at hand. I think some of what I’m after might come under the heading of file editing, as opposed to text editing, as I want to nimbly pick up and toss around blocks of text from multiple files, more efficiently than laborious copy/paste, and I haven’t found an application that does that well. Sounds like projectile goes a ways on that sort of thing. Appreciate the ideas, and if anyone has any further suggestions for tools, etc, let me know. Andy > On May 18, 2019, at 6:56 AM, Alexander Ilin wrote: > > Hello, Andy! > > From my point of view, and from the software experience that I have (both as > user and as developer), it seems to me that you could get a lot of the > benefits you are looking for from Spacemacs with org-mode and projectile. > That's where I'd be heading with these requirements, and then I'd adapt those > to my needs, since the source is available, the LISP language is quite nice > to work with, and the community is there to provide some guidance and support. > > If you want to go completely crazy with this, dive into Plan 9 or Project > Oberon (the latter could be simpler for a novice), but I'm not sure how much > support you could get there. You'd probably need to become a full-time > developer to understand and modify those systems to your needs. > > Returning to Spacemacs, org-mode would give you the no-mouse-needed > structured capabilities (GTD, PIM, etc.), and you could work exactly like > what Ginko offers if you opened the same file with different levels of > unfolding in three vertical columns (or "windows", as they are called in > Emacs). Projectile would let you search your (text) files with ease and > organize them into projects. > > Here's a well-regarded org-mode tutorial in case you want to take this route: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQS06Qjnkcc&list=PLVtKhBrRV_ZkPnBtt_TD1Cs9PJlU0IIdE > > ---=--- > Александр > > > > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
[Factor-talk] Too ambitious a project for a newbie?
Hello to all, My name is Andy. I'm seeking direction on a project which I've had in mind for years but don't have the ability (as yet) to do, since I am not (as yet) a programmer, though I've dabbled some. The problem my project seeks solution for is my notes and writings, accumulated over years and still ongoing. I've gradually developed a vision for an application to suit my eccentricities when it comes to writing. I'll try to splatter out some of my vision here, without effort to be thorough. I've used Vim for a few years, switching a couple of years ago to Spacemacs. I prefer keyboarding to mousing and like the minimalist interface, not a fan of menus and toolbars. The single feature I like most with Spacemacs is the ability to display several buffers as 'columns'. I like some aspects of Gingko, in the way the 'columns' behave. I want those functionalities and more. I want outlining capability, both Gingko style and conventional. Other uses of 'columns': simply to have multiple files open and be able to see a handful of them at once; to collect text blocks from various files and 'stack them up' in columns to work with, to be able to move text block around easily without fuss. I want various search capabilities. Since I have a few thousands of files of notes, I want ready access through searches and a file viewer... Optimally my backlog of notes will eventually form an organized/ordered database of sorts, searchable by keywords, by date, by category... Projects will form. I have a wacky idea I'd like to try: an on screen, keyboard-simulation console in place of menus. We see a foreground keyboard on screen showing key bindings for the mode we're in (there will be a handful of modes). One objective is to reduce keystrokes, and make this more steamlined than the mouse-driven menu, hopefully more streamlined than even the keystroke-driven menu, although of course this is a form of keyboard-driven menu. It may not work out at all, but I want to try something with it. When in edit/insert mode the on screen keyboard of course dissappears (or any time you tell it to). I want this to be un-clunky, intuitive, flowing, quick, capable. It could also be adapted to serve as a PIM, GTD, even something like a screenwriter, a planner… Flexibility is nice. Hopefully this ramble gives a bit of flavor of the thing. Lots more detail but hopefully this is enough to give a glimpse of the kinds of functionalities I’m thinking about. My programming-related experience (mostly years ago): A course in digital logic, a couple of Fortran courses, read a brief book on Assembly. Never programmed in it but it gave me a good glimpse of the low level stuff. I stumbled onto Forth, read a couple of articles, played around with it slightly. The approach makes sense to me; it seems closer to the way the mind works (at least mine). Hence my interest in Factor. I've also dabbled in Lisp, though Racket, which is supposed to be good for developing specialized languages (is that what I need?). A few years ago I wrote a small program in VBA, a risk calculator for forex trading. I did it in Excel and actually did sell it online. So programming does hold a bit of fascination for me, and I've read and dabbled some but haven't chosen to make it my livelihood nor dug in very deeply, and I'm too old now to go that direction professionally even if I wanted to (I don't). BUT, I do want this program, badly enough to take a stab at it just for the sake of having this program. If what I want were already available I'd buy it in a heartbeat and then wouldn't need to develop it myself. But since it seems I’ll have to develop it myself, then I want to be able to extend and improve it myself, as I see fit, in the future. So I want to be in control of it and be capable of maintaining and improving it myself. Am I thinking of marketing it? Well sure, if any interest is there. To me it's a very interesting idea, but perhaps not to many others. So I'm not counting on that at all and doubt it’s a possibility. I expect it’s too wacky an idea for anyone but myself. By the way, I'm a farmer, in Indiana. I've seen mention of non-programmers who ended up, with help of course, writing their own software out of frustration, finding nothing to their liking so they write their own. Isn’t frustration the drive for a lot of software? That's where I am. My questions: Am I crazy to even think about such a project, even with good help? If I'm not crazy, what's the best language for this project? I feel drawn to Factor but it may not be the best option. And if I'm not crazy, how could I find the right mentor, guide, consultant, co-programmer for such a project? Could something like Vis be embedded as the editor for this? It’s on my computer but I haven’t gotten it running. I may be interested in the SAM functionalities, plus it’s a pretty compact editor I think. But I know nothing of C. And little of Unix/Linux. I’
Re: [Factor-talk] Newbie problem with 'first program'
Wow, it looks like I’ve landed in the right community to get my feet wet in programming! Much thanks to all! I’ll dig into these resources and I’m sure they will take me several steps down the road. Andy -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Newbie problem with 'first program'
OK, I’ve worked through Your First Program and gotten exposure to a few concepts (and had fun!). It would be nice if there were a series of such hands on tutorials leading me through further steps in my programming education and factor education. I don’t suppose that is the case though. I will continue as best I can, stumbling and experimenting, and I”ll make progress, but is there anything available anywhere that provides a more structured path? Just an example to show that despite the First Program tutorial I am still fundamentally ignorant: After playing with my newly built ‘palindrome?’ program, I began getting call stack overflow errors. Ok, but I am flat-footed at this point. What’s the call stack? What an overflow? Is my code causing the overflow? How, when it was just working a moment since and suddenly produced overflow errors? I’m sure the answer is simple and obvious to someone with just a little more experience, but what it shows me is that I’m really stumbling in the dark from this point. There’s obviously so much more of a very fundamental nature that I need to grasp before I even think about more intermediate concepts, let alone advanced. Yet I could not even find an explanation of the stack overflow error and how to fix what caused it. I’ll mess around and search around and figure it out eventually, but there must be a more systematic way. How do I proceed from here in learning factor? And programming? Andy -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Newbie problem with 'first program'
I found out how to fix that in Mac OS Preferences, so I’m ok on that now. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Newbie problem with 'first program'
Ok, I fixed that in Mac preferences, so I’m ok there. > On Jan 19, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Andrew McDowell wrote: > > OK, back with my next question, still working on ‘first program’. By the way > I’m loving the documentation. OK, my question: pressing F2 from the listener, > on my stock Mac keyboard, give the ‘Brighten screen’ function rather than > reloading changed files. For now I’m just using “palindrome” reload, but I’ll > need the F2 reload function sooner or later. How do I achieve that on this > keyboard? > >> On Jan 19, 2018, at 8:01 AM, Andrew McDowell wrote: >> >> That worked John, thank you! A little knowledge goes a long way. I’m sure >> I’ll be back with more questions soon. >> Andy > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Newbie problem with 'first program'
OK, back with my next question, still working on ‘first program’. By the way I’m loving the documentation. OK, my question: pressing F2 from the listener, on my stock Mac keyboard, give the ‘Brighten screen’ function rather than reloading changed files. For now I’m just using “palindrome” reload, but I’ll need the F2 reload function sooner or later. How do I achieve that on this keyboard? > On Jan 19, 2018, at 8:01 AM, Andrew McDowell wrote: > > That worked John, thank you! A little knowledge goes a long way. I’m sure > I’ll be back with more questions soon. > Andy -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Newbie problem with 'first program'
That worked John, thank you! A little knowledge goes a long way. I’m sure I’ll be back with more questions soon. Andy -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
[Factor-talk] Newbie problem with 'first program'
Hi, I have installed Factor on Mac OS 10.13. I'm trying to work through the Your first Program section. When I do: "palindrome" scaffold-work, I get the following error: Unix system call “mkdir” failed: Read-only file system (30) It was called with the following arguments: "/Volumes/factor/factor/work/palindrome" 511 I have attempted to change the permissions on that read-only directory, but even as root it will not let me change the permissions, saying it is a system directory and cannot be changed. I attempted to move the factor folder to the ~ directory. It will not allow it to move. Any ideas? I am not a programmer nor a -nix user, so please consider me a rank newbie and a dummy. Andy-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
