[FairfieldLife] Orange county Register article- Director David Lynch creates foundation- meditation for peace
Wednesday, August 10, 2005 Tapping into TM Filmmaker David Lynch wants to share with schools the benefits he says he's reaped from Transcendental Meditation. By PETER LARSEN The Orange County Register Filmmaker David Lynch makes movies that unfold like dreams, surreal and abstract, often beautiful and disturbing at the same time. The mysterious qualities of work from "Eraserhead" and "Blue Velvet" to "Twin Peaks" and "Mulholland Drive" have at times left viewers wondering if Lynch has found some way to tap into his subconscious and make art of what he finds there. Which in a way, it turns out, he says he has. For more than 30 years, Lynch has practiced Transcendental Meditation - TM, for short. He credits it with enhancing his happiness, his health and - most importantly for his art - his creativity. Because he believes so much in what TM has done for him and others he knows, Lynch has launched an organization - the ambitiously titled David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace - to provide the program to schools and any student who wants it. "The proof is in the pudding," Lynch says on a break from work on "Inland Empire," his new movie project. "When you see students who have experienced consciousness-based education, you kind of say, 'Oh, I can't believe what I'm seeing!' "These people are self-sufficient. They've got a strength. They have a clarity. They've got got an inner happiness. "They kind of glow with this consciousness." Transcendental Meditation is the meditation program that has been led by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for the past 50 years. For 20 minutes twice a day, the person meditating sits with eyes closed, seeking to settle the mind into a deeply quiet state referred to in TM circles as "restful alertness." Baby boomers may remember TM and the Maharishi for such famous followers as the Beatles in the '60s, but other celebrities, from actors Clint Eastwood and Mary Tyler Moore to shock jock Howard Stern, have done it, too. Yet the movement has always had critics. Some argue that it has religious elements related to Hinduism. A New Jersey court case from the 1970s ruled it was religious in nature and could not be taught in schools. A spokesman for the national TM organization said that since that case, society's view of TM has changed. Public schools in Detroit, Atlanta and Washington D.C. have used it, and it is now widely considered a mental and physical technique as secular as yoga. To Lynch, who believes students would benefit as he has, it's a simple equation. "People out there know the schools are in trouble," Lynch says. "And here is (TM), ready to boogie. "Bring it out and see what happens." Jean Anne Currivan, a 19-year-old from Dove Canyon, has practiced Transcendental Meditation for as long as she can remember, starting out informally as a 5-year-old, then learning the traditional program when she turned 10. Throughout attending Santa Margarita Catholic High School she meditated twice daily, and she's sure it's helped her studies and her life at large. "It's given me a lot of clarity," she says, sitting between her parents, Bruce and Annamaria Currivan, both longtime TM practitioners. "I don't feel tired all the time. And it's allowed me to enjoy my studies for studying them, rather than working to get a good grade." As a freshman last year at the University of California, Berkeley, where she plans to major in physics and philosophy, her roommate "was always impressed how I didn't stress out before tests," Currivan says. The Currivan children - sons Joseph, 21, and Peter, 16, also meditate - are poster-perfect for the point TM leaders hope the David Lynch Foundation will help make: calm, clear-thinking and focused. "I can't imagine people not doing it," says Bruce Currivan, a technical director at Broadcom, who also serves on the board of trustees at Maharishi University of Management in Fairfield, Iowa. "I think it would be great if we had it in school," Annamaria Currivan says. "It gives me tremendous hope for the world. "It's very natural for (Jean Anne) to meditate and it would be wonderful if other children would have that, too." At the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit, about 120 students have practiced TM twice daily for six years. Carmen N'Nambi, founder and principal of the public charter school, says that since the program started - funded in part by a grant from the Daimler/Chrysler Foundation - the 120 students in it cherish the 10 minutes they meditate in the gym twice daily. "I don't think we realize how much we don't value quiet in this culture," N'Nambi says. "American society is busy. "So the future generation needs to know how to rest, to say, 'That's enough now, I need to go take care of myself for a little bit.' " The program at the school is being studied by a University of Michigan Medical School researcher, whose preliminary results found stud
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I wish the Christians would stop saying that their way is better > > than anyone else's. It gets very boring, and it is untrue. All > > people can really say about the > > spiritual path they adopt is, "It works for me," and I wish they > > would leave it at that. > > This was a response Kai had to everyone bashing him on this forum > for his sincere comments. In a sense, it was an *invited* response. > Interesting that you must attack his beliefs rather than adress > what he says here since we already knew what his beliefs were when > we invited him to respond. Well said, Lawson. From my point of view, the guy is Just Another True Believer, and *not* that much different from TM True Believers. He's chosen an "authority" in his life. For him, that's Jesus (as his words have been reported, and as they've been interpreted for him by clergy he's also chosen to trust). Given this limited input, and the interpretations of Christ's reported words that have undoubtedly been taught to him, he's *right* to believe them and believe that these teachings exclude TM for him. The thing his, his stance is NOT much different than the stance of a lot of TM True Believers. They have an "authority," too -- Maharishi. They take whatever MMY said and give to it the status of gospel or unchallenged cosmic truth. When this "cosmic truth" says that TM is the most effective technique of meditation on the planet, and the fastest way to realize enlightenment, they accept this literally. The TBs are not afraid to declare ALL other techniques of meditation inferior to TM (even though they've never actually learned or practiced any of these other techniques, and never will because that would be beneath them). When Maharishi sez that certain techniques are cool and others are uncool, the TBs just parrot that without ever questioning, even for a moment, whether it's true or not, or whether the person declaring cosmic "good and bad" has ever had any experience with the other paths he's dumping on himself. Kai is just demonstrating True Believerism Of Another Kind. But it's all the same True Believerism, whether it's a Christian TB spouting it or a TM TB spouting it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: No mysteries in Heaven? Questions to the Awakened.
1. Pilot deserved to die. Earthworms on that hill deserved to die. For me, it was mostly a serious "OH SHIT!!" moment. No purpose at all. Bummer, eh? 2. Nope, just relaxing. 3. Nope, just relaxing. Same with me. 4. What recent physical incarnation? That was an alien android, you fool! Don't take the purple icosahedrons - take the chartreuse dodecahedrons! 5. Guru Dev says - can't you count? 5 comes after 4, not 1. What is TM, exactly? Don't remember teaching that. 6. HD209458 is 150 light-years away! You call that close? At least 51Pegasi is only 50.1 light-years away. Surprisingly, both planet's inhabitants have IQs that precisely match their distance from earth. If you want a planet of nice Forrest Gumps, visit 51Pegasi - and it has a much better climate. Smart-ass astral entities give me the creeps, anyway. Always happy to help! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mathatbrahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Question to the Awakened: please use your extrasensory perception > just for a moment to assist me in finding the answers to these > questions: > > First, regarding some deceased acquaintances of mine, > > 1. Please ask Joe Clarke if there was some special reason (aside from > mere bad karma) for his untimely death in the airplane crash. In > other words, did that fulfull some Divine purpose; perhaps in his > helping people in the inner planes? > > 2. To Jessamine Verrill: Please ask Jessamine if she is initiating > people in the inner planes, and if so, how many people (in the > physically disembodied category) has she initiated since she left the > physical. > > 3. Same question to David Verrill and to Roland Olson. > > 4. Please ask Charlie Lutes if he has had any misgivings about his > recent physical incarnation; particularly if he would do anything > different; and what plans is he making for his next incarnation? > Also, when does he expect to incarnate again? > > OK, now a question to Guru Dev. > 1. To Guru Dev: are you pleased with MMY's performance in propagating > TM around the world, or not pleased? If not pleased, why? > > Now for a question about two extrasolar planets very near our solar > system: HD209458, and 51Pegasi. > Are these planets inhabited by living entities, either physically > embodied or astral? If so, which of the planets has the most > intelligent creatures and what is their appearance? > > Thanks a lot for your help! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: No mysteries in Heaven? Questions to the Awakened.
1. Pilot deserved to die. Earthworms on that hill deserved to die. For me, it was mostly a serious "OH SHIT!!" moment. No purpose at all. Bummer, eh? 2. Nope, just relaxing. 3. Nope, just relaxing. 4. What recent physical incarnation? That was an alien android, you fool! Don't take the purple icosahedrons - take the chartreuse dodecahedrons! 5. Guru Dev says - can't you count? 5 comes after 4, not 1. What is TM, exactly? Don't remember teaching that. 6. HD209458 is 150 light-years away! You call that close? At least 51Pegasi is only 50.1 light-years away. Surprisingly, both planet's inhabitants have IQs that precisely match their distance from earth. If you want a planet of nice Forrest Gumps, visit 51Pegasi - and it has a much better climate. Smart-ass astral entities give me the creeps, anyway. Always happy to help! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mathatbrahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Question to the Awakened: please use your extrasensory perception > just for a moment to assist me in finding the answers to these > questions: > > First, regarding some deceased acquaintances of mine, > > 1. Please ask Joe Clarke if there was some special reason (aside from > mere bad karma) for his untimely death in the airplane crash. In > other words, did that fulfull some Divine purpose; perhaps in his > helping people in the inner planes? > > 2. To Jessamine Verrill: Please ask Jessamine if she is initiating > people in the inner planes, and if so, how many people (in the > physically disembodied category) has she initiated since she left the > physical. > > 3. Same question to David Verrill and to Roland Olson. > > 4. Please ask Charlie Lutes if he has had any misgivings about his > recent physical incarnation; particularly if he would do anything > different; and what plans is he making for his next incarnation? > Also, when does he expect to incarnate again? > > OK, now a question to Guru Dev. > 1. To Guru Dev: are you pleased with MMY's performance in propagating > TM around the world, or not pleased? If not pleased, why? > > Now for a question about two extrasolar planets very near our solar > system: HD209458, and 51Pegasi. > Are these planets inhabited by living entities, either physically > embodied or astral? If so, which of the planets has the most > intelligent creatures and what is their appearance? > > Thanks a lot for your help! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger Gets Brave/ Slams Pres. Bush..'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Boy, that Mick is really brave, isn't he? > > > > > > > > > > And the last time *you* did anything cool > > > > > for the world was when, exactly? > > > > > > > > ...when I challenged you on the claim that you witnessed true, > real > > > > levitation... > > > > Hey Shemp, since you're obviously holding onto this one > > pretty tightly, can I ask you a question? > > > > If you were to witness "real" levitation -- right in front > > of your eyes, perfect conditions, no drugs or wires and > > mirrors or sleep deprivation or *anything* you could pos- > > sibly use as an excuse going on -- would you believe it > > had happened? Would you be able to trust your own > > experience? > > Has The Amazing Randy given the person demonstrating it the million > dollar reward? You can answer the question, too, if you'd like, Lawson. You didn't above. What you *did* was declare a set of objective "validations" of your own subjective experience. What I'm asking is whether, if you personally witnessed levitation, with NO outside "validation" or objective verification, you would trust your own subjective experience. I think that if you wouldn't, you're making a very sad statement indeed, one that has rather profound implications for whether you will realize your own enlightenment in this life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger Gets Brave/ Slams Pres. Bush..'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Boy, that Mick is really brave, isn't he? > > > > > > > > > > > > And the last time *you* did anything cool > > > > > > for the world was when, exactly? > > > > > > > > > > ...when I challenged you on the claim that you witnessed > true, > > real > > > > > levitation... > > > > > > Hey Shemp, since you're obviously holding onto this one > > > pretty tightly, can I ask you a question? > > > > > > If you were to witness "real" levitation -- right in front > > > of your eyes, perfect conditions, no drugs or wires and > > > mirrors or sleep deprivation or *anything* you could pos- > > > sibly use as an excuse going on -- would you believe it > > > had happened? Would you be able to trust your own > > > experience? > > > > Has The Amazing Randy given the person demonstrating it the million > > dollar reward? > > You can answer the question, too, if you'd like, Lawson. > You didn't above. What you *did* was declare a set of > objective "validations" of your own subjective experience. > > What I'm asking is whether, if you personally witnessed > levitation, with NO outside "validation" or objective > verification, you would trust your own subjective experience. Nope. I've been an eyewitness to the aftermath of a shooting. I had a conversation with the perp and looked him right in the eye from a foot or so away and talked him into leaving the 7-11 before the police came (I didn't realize there had been a gun involved outsided so I wasn't nervous in the slightest --I guess he responded to that). I couldn't identify him when he was captured by the police. > > I think that if you wouldn't, you're making a very sad > statement indeed, one that has rather profound implications > for whether you will realize your own enlightenment in this > life. Just familiar with a few of my limitations, sorry. I've also seen videos of street magicians mystifying passers by by "levitating" in front of them. Doug Henning figured out a way to make a restaurant appear to "levitate" from all angles outside and from the pov of people inside looking out. Why should I think that my perceptions are all that hot? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature The Big Shame, revealed..
---This is the big shame of Jesus' story. He wanted to be remembered for his life, not his death. Funny, how the people who were responsible for killing him, also glamorize the way he was killed. Most obnoxious is that clever guy, Mel Gibson, for honoring the blood and gore, of Roman blood-lust. Everywhere you go now, you see the death, a holy man nailed to a tree. What is the value of this, unless it is to scare you to death now, as it did then. It's subtle message is: Do what we say, believe like we believe, or you will too, end up like this one, the so-called "King of the Jews", Jeshuwa ben Joseph. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > Hey, since you've read alot about the cruxifiction (Cross > Fiction) > > > could you tell me whether the crosses were actually X shaped? > > > Instead of T? > > > > > > some say he was just nailed to a trunk with his arms above his head. > > > > Doesn't really matter, does it, unless you're one of > > those people who think that the way an enlightened > > person died is more important than the way they lived. > > For many of his followers, this seems to be the case... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger Gets Brave/ Slams Pres. Bush..'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Boy, that Mick is really brave, isn't he? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the last time *you* did anything cool > > > > > > > for the world was when, exactly? > > > > > > > > > > > > ...when I challenged you on the claim that you witnessed > > true, > > > real > > > > > > levitation... > > > > > > > > Hey Shemp, since you're obviously holding onto this one > > > > pretty tightly, can I ask you a question? > > > > > > > > If you were to witness "real" levitation -- right in front > > > > of your eyes, perfect conditions, no drugs or wires and > > > > mirrors or sleep deprivation or *anything* you could pos- > > > > sibly use as an excuse going on -- would you believe it > > > > had happened? Would you be able to trust your own > > > > experience? > > > > > > Has The Amazing Randy given the person demonstrating it the > million > > > dollar reward? > > > > You can answer the question, too, if you'd like, Lawson. > > You didn't above. What you *did* was declare a set of > > objective "validations" of your own subjective experience. > > > > What I'm asking is whether, if you personally witnessed > > levitation, with NO outside "validation" or objective > > verification, you would trust your own subjective experience. > > Nope. I've been an eyewitness to the aftermath of a shooting. I > had a > conversation with the perp and looked him right in the eye from a > foot or so away and talked him into leaving the 7-11 before the > police came (I didn't realize there had been a gun involved > outsided so I wasn't nervous in the slightest --I guess he > responded to that). > > I couldn't identify him when he was captured by the police. > > > I think that if you wouldn't, you're making a very sad > > statement indeed, one that has rather profound implications > > for whether you will realize your own enlightenment in this > > life. > > Just familiar with a few of my limitations, sorry. > > > I've also seen videos of street magicians mystifying passers by > by "levitating" in front of them. Doug Henning figured out a way to > make a restaurant appear to "levitate" from all angles outside and > from the pov of people inside looking out. > > Why should I think that my perceptions are all that hot? You are free, of course, to live your life any way you want. However, I might suggest to you that by taking this stance you are setting yourself up to never realize enlightenment. Enlightenment (thus far) is a *completely* subjective experience. No one you have access to on the planet can "verify" or "validate" the experience for you. So if/when it happens for you, you've just said that you won't trust your own experience. Talk about setting up a subtle level of intention to make sure you never have to deal with the situation... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
I spent two months in traction in a hospital (alongwith John Hagelin) when I was 17. Every night around10:30 pm a healing "angel" would appear in the centerof our four bed room and radiate such sweet healingenergy for several minutes then it would switch offand she/he would move on. Interesting experience.-Alright, but if one hasn't cognized the devas then they can't be said to be in GC, and so no UC. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
Intention seems to play a BIG part doesn't it? -I don't know. I would suppose that one should have the desire for enlightenment, or even if one were enlightened it wouldn't mean anything. Like if you own a Ferrari, but couldn't give a damn, then it wouldn't mean anything to you. You might as well own a Geo. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] No mysteries in Heaven? Questions to the Awakened.
Did you really spend time thinking about these things? They aren't mysteries in the sense of real mysteries, not because they aren't certainly mysterious, but because they're all just your imagination. For instance, you can take twenty ingredients and give them to a chef and say "make something since you're a chef" but does he have to make something just because you decided that you wanted chicken with cottage cheese and Thai green chili paste with tofu and Boudin Noir and honey? I don't think so. As for whether there's some deeper mystery to be realized from your questions, I would say, if they mean so much to you then figure them out for yourself. Self reliance is a bigger and deeper mystery than some bogums. - Original Message - From: mathatbrahman To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] No mysteries in Heaven? Questions to the Awakened. Question to the Awakened: please use your extrasensory perception just for a moment to assist me in finding the answers to these questions:First, regarding some deceased acquaintances of mine,1. Please ask Joe Clarke if there was some special reason (aside from mere bad karma) for his untimely death in the airplane crash. In other words, did that fulfull some Divine purpose; perhaps in his helping people in the inner planes?2. To Jessamine Verrill: Please ask Jessamine if she is initiating people in the inner planes, and if so, how many people (in the physically disembodied category) has she initiated since she left the physical.3. Same question to David Verrill and to Roland Olson.4. Please ask Charlie Lutes if he has had any misgivings about his recent physical incarnation; particularly if he would do anything different; and what plans is he making for his next incarnation? Also, when does he expect to incarnate again?OK, now a question to Guru Dev.1. To Guru Dev: are you pleased with MMY's performance in propagating TM around the world, or not pleased? If not pleased, why?Now for a question about two extrasolar planets very near our solar system: HD209458, and 51Pegasi.Are these planets inhabited by living entities, either physically embodied or astral? If so, which of the planets has the most intelligent creatures and what is their appearance?Thanks a lot for your help! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
I actually hada very clear ritam bhara pragya experience in thehospital. I didn't know what it was of course untilabout 2 years later when I was on my TTC and heard MMYtalk about it. -Does anyone ever fall into half sleep when meditating and witness dreaming taking place? It's a fascinating way of understanding the nature of the mind and ritam. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] A fable for those who trust "authorities" and live by their advice :-)
An old man, a boy and a donkey were going to town. The boy rode on the donkey and the old man walked. As they went along, they passed some people who remarked that it was a shame the old man was walking and the boy was riding. The man and boy thought that maybe the critics were right, so they changed positions. Later, they passed some people that remarked, "What a shame, he makes that little boy walk." They then decided that they both would walk! Soon they passed some more people who thought they were stupid to walk when they had a decent donkey to ride. So, they both rode the donkey. Then they passed some people that who taunted them, saying how awful they were to put such a load on a poor donkey. The boy and the old man decided that they were probably right, so they decided to carry the donkey. But as they crossed a bridge over a river, they lost their grip on the donkey and he fell into the river and drowned. The moral of the story is that if you try to please everyone, you might as well kiss your ass good-bye. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > World's tallest tower planned in India > > > > > > > > > > http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp? > > > > Article=117998&Sn=BUSI&IssueID=28130 > > > > > > > > > > World's tallest tower planned in India > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in > > the > > > > world, is being > > > > > built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya > > Pradesh > > > > state. The > > > > > -foot (677m) Center of India Tower scheduled for November > > 6, > > > > is being financed > > > > > by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (The Beatles former spiritual > > leader), > > > > and will be his new > > > > > world headquarters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read stuff like this and it makes me want to retch. > > > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > Because the TMO has limited resources -- VERY limited resources -- > > and I believe that 100% of those resources should be devoted to > > promoting and promulgating the TM program and not hair-brained > > schemes that have ZERO connection to bringing TM to the masses. > > The Tower thang will be a revenue generator (hopefully), and its not > TM revenues that are funding it. To take this tower thing seriously shows a pretty serious disconnect with reality. TMO officials have gotten off for the past 5 yrs or so showing these impressive ego-phallic plans but that's as far as it's gotten and will ever get. A few long time serious devotees may finance and build peace palaces for 1/3 of the profit but not real life firms capable of participating in this project. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger Gets Brave/ Slams Pres. Bush..'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Boy, that Mick is really brave, isn't he? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the last time *you* did anything cool > > > > > > > > for the world was when, exactly? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...when I challenged you on the claim that you witnessed > > > true, > > > > real > > > > > > > levitation... > > > > > > > > > > Hey Shemp, since you're obviously holding onto this one > > > > > pretty tightly, can I ask you a question? > > > > > > > > > > If you were to witness "real" levitation -- right in front > > > > > of your eyes, perfect conditions, no drugs or wires and > > > > > mirrors or sleep deprivation or *anything* you could pos- > > > > > sibly use as an excuse going on -- would you believe it > > > > > had happened? Would you be able to trust your own > > > > > experience? > > > > > > > > Has The Amazing Randy given the person demonstrating it the > > million > > > > dollar reward? > > > > > > You can answer the question, too, if you'd like, Lawson. > > > You didn't above. What you *did* was declare a set of > > > objective "validations" of your own subjective experience. > > > > > > What I'm asking is whether, if you personally witnessed > > > levitation, with NO outside "validation" or objective > > > verification, you would trust your own subjective experience. > > > > Nope. I've been an eyewitness to the aftermath of a shooting. I > > had a > > conversation with the perp and looked him right in the eye from a > > foot or so away and talked him into leaving the 7-11 before the > > police came (I didn't realize there had been a gun involved > > outsided so I wasn't nervous in the slightest --I guess he > > responded to that). > > > > I couldn't identify him when he was captured by the police. > > > > > I think that if you wouldn't, you're making a very sad > > > statement indeed, one that has rather profound implications > > > for whether you will realize your own enlightenment in this > > > life. > > > > Just familiar with a few of my limitations, sorry. > > > > > > I've also seen videos of street magicians mystifying passers by > > by "levitating" in front of them. Doug Henning figured out a way to > > make a restaurant appear to "levitate" from all angles outside and > > from the pov of people inside looking out. > > > > Why should I think that my perceptions are all that hot? > > You are free, of course, to live your life any way > you want. However, I might suggest to you that by > taking this stance you are setting yourself up to > never realize enlightenment. Enlightenment (thus far) > is a *completely* subjective experience. No one you > have access to on the planet can "verify" or "validate" > the experience for you. So if/when it happens for you, > you've just said that you won't trust your own experience. > Talk about setting up a subtle level of intention to make > sure you never have to deal with the situation... So you're convinced its a situation with which I would have to deal? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The Tower thang will be a revenue generator (hopefully), and > > its not TM revenues that are funding it. > > To take this tower thing seriously shows a pretty serious disconnect > with reality. TMO officials have gotten off for the past 5 yrs or so > showing these impressive ego-phallic plans but that's as far as it's > gotten and will ever get. A few long time serious devotees may > finance and build peace palaces for 1/3 of the profit but not real > life firms capable of participating in this project. I tend to agree with both sparaig and mark, but in a different way. I don't think that *anyone* in the TMO ever intends to actually build this building. They're just running the blueprints as a scam to attract invest- ment, which they intend to keep when the project inevitably falls apart. They're so used to being able to get away with this with meditators (they've been running this scam successfully for decades) that now they're trying it in the real world with real investors. If it winds up going down this way, I foresee prison time for somebody, and about bloody time, too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
Doesn't really matter, does it, unless you're one ofthose people who think that the way an enlightenedperson died is more important than the way they lived.-It matters when you're trying to link the symbols with their basic purpose as esoteric guides to an experience. In this case the equilibrium of the elements. It matters when those symbols were reproduced by the ignorant and warped due to their not cognizing them in actual visionary experience but instead in mere commercial advertising. Jesus on the Cross is a later Catholic advertisement as early Christians were not as interested in the suffering aspect but more in the Compassionate Mary aspect. Then later in the eternal life aspect. Only later after the Church was the suffering aspect introduced. Introduced by the Church who made people suffer and who wanted them to be good servants and just take it. It also matters for the sake of historical authenticity. In the case of the cruxifictions I am thinking that the cross was an X and not a cross as we know it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > You are free, of course, to live your life any way > > you want. However, I might suggest to you that by > > taking this stance you are setting yourself up to > > never realize enlightenment. Enlightenment (thus far) > > is a *completely* subjective experience. No one you > > have access to on the planet can "verify" or "validate" > > the experience for you. So if/when it happens for you, > > you've just said that you won't trust your own experience. > > Talk about setting up a subtle level of intention to make > > sure you never have to deal with the situation... > > So you're convinced its a situation with which I would have to deal? Eventually, absolutely. I am convinced that one of the key elements involved in realization of one's own enlightenment involves making that jump from trusting others more than one trusts one's own perceptions to trusting one's own perceptions more than one trusts others. Others can comment if they'd like. One's mileage may, of course, vary on this subject, but I'd suspect that those here who have experienced awakenings would tend to agree that a certain level of self-trust is neces- sary for the realization to happen in the first place and then to sustain itself. It'll be interesting to see what people here think of this question. But since you're asking me, yes, I'm convinced that self-trust is *critical* to realization of higher states of consciousness. That doesn't mean that you might not get a "second opinion" if you find one you trust, but the bottom line is that your own experience is telling you one thing and the "second opinion" is telling you another, you're at a crossroads. At that point you either step beyond the barrier of self doubt and embrace your own realizations or you choose to believe the "outside authority" and reject them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Fwd: New Lecture Series Begins on Aug. 12 Antrim Course
forwarded text also included Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:33:13 -0500 Subject:New Lecture Series Begins on Aug. 12 Antrim Course From: "Raja Kingsley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to Address Book To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New England Domain: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont New Lecture Series Begins on Aug. 12 Antrim Course Dear New England Meditators, Sidhas, and Governors, Join us this Aug. 1214 during our World Peace Assembly (for Governors and Citizen Sidhas) and Residence Course (for Meditators) and hear Maharishis global plans for reconstruction of the entire world in all areas of life: education, health, agriculture, and reconstruction of all the homes and buildings. Our August 1214 Courses will have two new features: 1. Raja Kingsley, Raja of New England, will present the plans for reconstruction of New England which includes Peace Colonies, fortune-promoting homes and office buildings, buildings for permanent and professional peace-creating groups in each nation. 2. The first one hour lecture of our 7 Lecture Vedic Literature Series will begin this Aug. 12 weekend. Each Residence Course, for the remainder of 2005, will feature a presentation on the 40 aspects of the Veda and Vedic literature as outlined in His Majesty Maharaja Nader Raams Book, Human Physiology_Expression of the Veda and the Vedic Literature. Our first lecture will feature a verse from Rik Veda: He who is awake, the Richas (expressions of the Veda) zoom forth in his awareness and uphold his thought, speech, and action. These weekends are a unique opportunity for deep rest, extended practice of the Transcendental Meditation program, delicious organic food, and the latest knowledge, news, and updates by Maharishi including the most recent plans to bring enlightenment for every Governor, Citizen Sidha, and Meditator. To apply for the course please go to our New England website: www.newengland.globalcountry.net and click on Advanced Programs, then scroll down to How to apply. Or call us at 603-588-2012 or 800-332-. We look forward to your participation. All our very best and Jai Guru Dev Raja Kingsley & Leslie Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Thru and thru" dilettante analysis of RV I 164, 39 ; part 1
On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:38 AM, cardemaister wrote: > Cool! Some yogasuutras are obviously de facto direct quotations > from tattva-samaasa. Before the study of YS begins, one is supposed to know and understand the tattva-samasa, otherwise you can't really understand the YS. So it's not surprising that many comment on it, it's supposed to be a "given". To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > That's what I thought at first, but it became clear > > after a while that CC, GC, and UC were labels for > > certain distinct types of experiences, points on a > > continuum, rather than for sequential states, although > > the experiences tend to develop in that general > > direction. > > > > On the other hand, if someone is having stable, > > prolonged experiences that fit the description > > attached to the label God consciousness, for > > example, perhaps it wouldn't be wrong to say the > > person was "in" God consciousness or had "achieved" > > God consciousness? > > How could you have GC without some level of CC? Where did I say you could? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > > Eventually, absolutely. I am convinced that one of > the key elements involved in realization of one's > own > enlightenment involves making that jump from > trusting > others more than one trusts one's own perceptions to > > trusting one's own perceptions more than one trusts > others. > > Others can comment if they'd like. One's mileage > may, > of course, vary on this subject, but I'd suspect > that > those here who have experienced awakenings would > tend > to agree that a certain level of self-trust is > neces- > sary for the realization to happen in the first > place > and then to sustain itself. It'll be interesting to > see what people here think of this question. I think this self-trust thing in regard to realization is a bit off. Trust is an emotional/mental assumptive act. You have to trust when there is doubt for whatever reason. It's hard to doubt your own experience, even in waking state. But doubting "pure existence" itself is even more difficult! To say I doubt my own existence is a bit of a paradox, of course, because prior to doubting is existence. So you can't doubt that "you are." You can doubt any experience, but not that. Now to inquire into who this "you" is will bring about some interesting results! But more importantly doubt/no doubt has to do with mind. Realization is outside of mind. It is not an experience within any objective or subjective domain. When mind trys to look at pure consciousness like some kind of object, it completely flattens and disappears. This question of doubt assumes that realization is some sort of experience. Realization is not an experience. Realization is not an intellectual act, although the intellect can be used as a tool to discriminate to what is profoundly self-evident. To doubt realization is a mental act only and has nothing to do with realization. Doubt of "one's" realization only occurs because of very, very long standing mental habits that force the mind to say, "Is this it? Is this it?" It's like standing outside in the rain and asking, "Is it raining?" Sometimes the mind needs to hear someone say," It's raining!" and this destroys the mental habit, the bondage to mind. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- markmeredith2002 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > > To take this tower thing seriously shows a pretty > serious disconnect > with reality. TMO officials have gotten off for the > past 5 yrs or so > showing these impressive ego-phallic plans but > that's as far as it's > gotten and will ever get. A few long time serious > devotees may > finance and build peace palaces for 1/3 of the > profit but not real > life firms capable of participating in this project. You certainly can't be sincerely psychologically invested in such a project. You have to seriously not take it seriously otherwise you'll go insane! > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > snip > > > > > Eventually, absolutely. I am convinced that one of > > the key elements involved in realization of one's > > own > > enlightenment involves making that jump from > > trusting > > others more than one trusts one's own perceptions to > > > > trusting one's own perceptions more than one trusts > > others. > > > > Others can comment if they'd like. One's mileage > > may, > > of course, vary on this subject, but I'd suspect > > that > > those here who have experienced awakenings would > > tend > > to agree that a certain level of self-trust is > > neces- > > sary for the realization to happen in the first > > place > > and then to sustain itself. It'll be interesting to > > see what people here think of this question. > > I think this self-trust thing in regard to realization > is a bit off. Trust is an emotional/mental assumptive > act. You have to trust when there is doubt for > whatever reason. It's hard to doubt your own > experience, even in waking state. But doubting "pure > existence" itself is even more difficult! To say I > doubt my own existence is a bit of a paradox, of > course, because prior to doubting is existence. So you > can't doubt that "you are." You can doubt any > experience, but not that. Now to inquire into who this > "you" is will bring about some interesting results! > > But more importantly doubt/no doubt has to do with > mind. Realization is outside of mind. It is not an > experience within any objective or subjective domain. > When mind trys to look at pure consciousness like some > kind of object, it completely flattens and disappears. > This question of doubt assumes that realization is > some sort of experience. Realization is not an > experience. Realization is not an intellectual act, > although the intellect can be used as a tool to > discriminate to what is profoundly self-evident. To > doubt realization is a mental act only and has nothing > to do with realization. Doubt of "one's" realization > only occurs because of very, very long standing mental > habits that force the mind to say, "Is this it? Is > this it?" It's like standing outside in the rain and > asking, "Is it raining?" Sometimes the mind needs to > hear someone say," It's raining!" and this destroys > the mental habit, the bondage to mind. > I think my response was a tad more succinct: > So you're convinced its a situation with which I would have to deal? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- markmeredith2002 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > snip > > > > > To take this tower thing seriously shows a pretty > > serious disconnect > > with reality. TMO officials have gotten off for the > > past 5 yrs or so > > showing these impressive ego-phallic plans but > > that's as far as it's > > gotten and will ever get. A few long time serious > > devotees may > > finance and build peace palaces for 1/3 of the > > profit but not real > > life firms capable of participating in this project. > > You certainly can't be sincerely psychologically > invested in such a project. You have to seriously not > take it seriously otherwise you'll go insane! > Nonsense. You can as invested in this project as in any other and not go insane. Nearly every major plan goes awry. We're just paying more attention to this one so we think of it as unusual. It's not. How many Really Big Buildings never get funded, or have funding cancelled? How many movie ideas are pitched and never get off the ground? How many schools, businesses, etc., are stifled in the planning stages? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger Gets Brave/ Slams Pres. Bush..'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Why should I think that my perceptions are all that hot? > > You are free, of course, to live your life any way > you want. However, I might suggest to you that by > taking this stance you are setting yourself up to > never realize enlightenment. Enlightenment (thus far) > is a *completely* subjective experience. No one you > have access to on the planet can "verify" or "validate" > the experience for you. So if/when it happens for you, > you've just said that you won't trust your own experience. > Talk about setting up a subtle level of intention to make > sure you never have to deal with the situation... Except, of course, that two very different kinds of "experience" are involved here. It's one thing to doubt that one's sensory perceptions are in accord with physical reality, and quite another to doubt one's state of consciousness. Or to put it another way, to doubt that one's sensory perceptions are in accord with physical reality is not to doubt one's perceptions themselves. I can doubt that someone is actually levitating without doubting that I *perceive* them to be levitating. Perception itself is a wholly subjective experience, just as enlightenment is. Ultimately there's no way to tell whether one's perceptions are in accord with reality. Even if James Randi awards the putative levitator the million bucks, *his* perceptions might not be in accord with reality either. And one's state of consciousness isn't a matter of sensory perception anyway. But to doubt that one is having a particular "experience" of one's state of consciousness is akin to doubting that one has perceived someone to be levitating (as opposed to doubting whether they are actually levitating)--it's a contradiction in terms. One never doubts one's experience of one's subjective state, by definition. In the case of enlightenment, the question is, what is the "reality" that corresponds to the physical reality of someone levitating, such that one might ask whether one's experience of one's state of consciousness is in accord with that reality? But that question is fundamentally meaningless. The only reality in that case *is* one's experience of one's state of consciousness. So your formulation above involves some pretty massive confusion, on several different levels. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
On Aug 11, 2005, at 6:35 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > Others can comment if they'd like. One's mileage may, > of course, vary on this subject, but I'd suspect that > those here who have experienced awakenings would tend > to agree that a certain level of self-trust is neces- > sary for the realization to happen in the first place > and then to sustain itself. It'll be interesting to > see what people here think of this question. > > But since you're asking me, yes, I'm convinced that > self-trust is *critical* to realization of higher > states of consciousness. That doesn't mean that you > might not get a "second opinion" if you find one you > trust, but the bottom line is that your own experience > is telling you one thing and the "second opinion" is > telling you another, you're at a crossroads. At that > point you either step beyond the barrier of self doubt > and embrace your own realizations or you choose to > believe the "outside authority" and reject them. It's ciritcal fine point. In Mahasandhi/Dzogchen it's considered essential to gain "confidence of the View" or "certainty of the View". The View is the central quality of the state of consciousness in question, your own inner darshana. This is essential to proceeding correctly as otherwise one remains in doubt--or the ego intervenes and fills in it's own blanks, which is always dangerous. Once you gain the perspective or POV of Unity, one checks the experience with the teacher. After one has gained this confidence, it's so much easier to proceed "alone" as one no longer needs to rely on external verification, but instead the state of presence becomes a state beyond verification. But the teacher is essential IMO in this first critical step. After that the teacher/guru seems to internalize and one is guided from the inner guru, which only sometimes takes external form, sometimes not. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think this self-trust thing in regard to realization > is a bit off. Trust is an emotional/mental assumptive > act. You have to trust when there is doubt for > whatever reason. It's hard to doubt your own > experience, even in waking state. We may have to agree to disagree. I strongly disagree. I think people doubt their own waking state experience all the time, *especially* with regard to so-called extrasensory experiences or non-transcendental spiritual experiences such as "seeing" or witnessing odd phenom- ena. You'd just be *amazed* at how much of one's own experience one can doubt. You just haven't *lived* you've watched someone deny seeing something they can't handle having seen...it's some of the best entertainment going. :-) > But doubting "pure > existence" itself is even more difficult! To say I > doubt my own existence is a bit of a paradox, of > course, because prior to doubting is existence. So you > can't doubt that "you are." You can doubt any > experience, but not that. You brought in a term and I'm not sure how you're defining it. What do you mean by "pure existence?" If you're talking about clear transcendence or samadhi, again we must agree to disagree. It is *amazingly* possible for people to doubt or even deny such experiences. One of the things you discover when you sit down and actually talk to people who have wound up in the "anti-cult" "move- ment" is how many of them wound up there *because* they had a clear, distinct experience of transcend- ence and it scared the shit out of them. They (correctly) perceived that the moments of transcendence involved the death of self, that which they'd identified all their lives "going away." They interpreted this loss of self as loss of existence, as a form of dying. And so they made up all these stories to tell themselves about how the experience was bad or evil and ran from it as fast as they possibly could. Now they devote themselves to trying to keep anyone else from ever having such an experience. It's just the weirdest thing. So if you're using the term "pure existence" to mean the subjective perception of Self (samadhi, whatever), I strongly disagree that one can't doubt it. It's very, very easy to doubt such an experience, and far more common than you might think in the spiritual smorgasbord. > Now to inquire into who this > "you" is will bring about some interesting results! It does sound a bit contradictory, the self learning to trust the self to get beyond the self in a perma- nent fashion, but I still think I'm onto something. Almost everyone I have ever met who has had long-term enlightenment experiences speaks of that "treshhold," of having reached a moment when it came down to having to trust one's own experience more than one trusts some "authority." I think it's an important step. > But more importantly doubt/no doubt has to do with > mind. Realization is outside of mind. It is not an > experience within any objective or subjective domain. However, mind can *prevent* realization. If one cultivates a mindset of fear and trust only in "authorities," IMO one can set up conditions such that realization is not likely to occur. In a way, it's like the Advaita/satsang discussions we've been having here lately. Some people are just not gonna do well in a satsang situation, because they're going to react in a hurt or angry fashion to being told that they're already enlightened. *When* they react that way, they are effectively blocking the realization of their own enlightenment. I suspect there is a similar dynamic present when one spends years or decades being unable to trust one's own perceptions and experience. You set up a samskaric habit pattern that keeps realization at arm's length. > When mind trys to look at pure consciousness like some > kind of object, it completely flattens and disappears. > This question of doubt assumes that realization is > some sort of experience. Realization is not an > experience. Realization is not an intellectual act, > although the intellect can be used as a tool to > discriminate to what is profoundly self-evident. To > doubt realization is a mental act only and has nothing > to do with realization. All agreed. If you're in samadhi, there is no one *to* doubt the experience. What I'm talking about is *afterwards*. Then the intellect re-engages gears and starts trying to "make sense" of the samadhi experience. And *that* is where a lot of people refuse to trust their own experience. It's an after-the-fact doubt thing that begins to creep in. > Doubt of "one's" realization > only occurs because of very, very long standing mental > habits that force the mind to say, "Is this it? Is > this it?" It's like standing outside in the rain and > asking, "Is it raining?" Sometimes the mind needs to > hear someone say," It's raining!" and this destroys > the mental habit, the bondage
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger Gets Brave/ Slams Pres. Bush..'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Boy, that Mick is really brave, isn't he? > > > > > > And the last time *you* did anything cool > > > for the world was when, exactly? > > > > ...when I challenged you on the claim that you witnessed true, real > > levitation... > > Boy, that sure took some guts. :-) > > Taking the path of cynical skepticism when > encountering stories one doesn't want to > believe. That's definitely brave for ya... :-) Thanks. I'm a regular Lewis and Clark... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger Gets Brave/ Slams Pres. Bush..'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Boy, that Mick is really brave, isn't he? > > > > > > > > And the last time *you* did anything cool > > > > for the world was when, exactly? > > > > > > ...when I challenged you on the claim that you witnessed true, real > > > levitation... > > Hey Shemp, since you're obviously holding onto this one > pretty tightly, can I ask you a question? > > If you were to witness "real" levitation -- right in front > of your eyes, perfect conditions, no drugs or wires and > mirrors or sleep deprivation or *anything* you could pos- > sibly use as an excuse going on -- would you believe it > had happened? Would you be able to trust your own > experience? There would be a part of me that held back. That is, I would experience great excitement and all that would come from experiencing such an historic event but I think that part of me would be constantly saying to myself: well, hold on there for a moment, boy, until there is further verification -- scientific or otherwise -- don't get completely sucked into this experience. 'Cause if it turns out to be a trick you'll feel really bad later on. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > He gave a vision of this new > > > programme in which first one group > > > of 500 Yogic Flyers will fly for an hour, then > > > they'll go and rest. Then, a second > > > group of 500 Yogic Flyers will fly for an hour, then > > > they'll go and rest. Then a > > > third group of 500 Yogic Flyers will fly for an > > > hour, then they'll go and rest, and > > > the first will group will come and fly again. > > > > > > Smokin'! We'll have to be careful that we we don't > > crack the local space-time matrix! > > Maharishi's "vision" here IS pretty astonishing, > when ya think about it. He's proposing that 6000 > people (four locations with 1500 "flyers" per > location) have nothing better to do with their > lives than bounce on their butts all day for > world peace. These 6000 people obviously have > no bills, no jobs, no families or family respon- > sibilities. They don't need to go to movies or > eat out occasionally or take vacations. They > just butt-bounce, all day every day. > > And this next bit is the best part -- and they > DO all of this while Somebody Else pays for it > all. As usual, the Somebody Else is not specified. > As usual, Maharishi and the TM organization is not > going to put up one cent to pay for it themselves. > > Perhaps "200% of life" really meant 100% fantasy and > 100% impracticality all this time, and we just never > realized it... :-) > > The most fascinating thing about this latest > "pronouncement" is that you just KNOW that NO ONE > in the room mentioned any of these practical issues > when the idea was broached. NO ONE would have > pointed out that there probably aren't 6000 butt- > bouncers on the whole planet. Even if there were, > NO ONE would have asked, "How are they expected to > do all this butt-bouncing and still have lives and > still pay for them?" > > It's the just sitting quietly in the room when he > says stupid shit like this and either saying nothing > or just embracing it as cosmic truth that's scary. > If it were just Maharishi saying silly stuff like > this, that's just one crazy person. If it's him > saying it to a whole roomful (or movementful) of > people who just nod their heads and say, "Cool...good > idea, Maharishi...Sat Yuga's sure gonna happen quickly > now," that's a LOT of crazy people. I've always felt that much of the craziness emanating from the TMO over the past 25 years came about because the people around MMY didn't reign him in when these ideas came out of his mouth. I haven't been around MMY enough to know the dynamics of the relationship he had with them -- so the following is just speculation on my part -- but I suspect that in the days when Jarvis and Lutes were around that they held him in check. Nowadays, there are cult nutcases around him who either encourage his every whim or are too caught up in the Maharishi-is-possessed-of-papal- infallibility so that they never question him or hold him in check when these ideas come up. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
On Aug 11, 2005, at 8:17 AM, Vaj wrote: > It's ciritcal fine point. Should have been: It's a critical fine point. ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger Gets Brave/ Slams Pres. Bush..'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Boy, that Mick is really brave, isn't he? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the last time *you* did anything cool > > > > > > > > for the world was when, exactly? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...when I challenged you on the claim that you witnessed > > > true, > > > > real > > > > > > > levitation... > > > > > > > > > > Hey Shemp, since you're obviously holding onto this one > > > > > pretty tightly, can I ask you a question? > > > > > > > > > > If you were to witness "real" levitation -- right in front > > > > > of your eyes, perfect conditions, no drugs or wires and > > > > > mirrors or sleep deprivation or *anything* you could pos- > > > > > sibly use as an excuse going on -- would you believe it > > > > > had happened? Would you be able to trust your own > > > > > experience? > > > > > > > > Has The Amazing Randy given the person demonstrating it the > > million > > > > dollar reward? > > > > > > You can answer the question, too, if you'd like, Lawson. > > > You didn't above. What you *did* was declare a set of > > > objective "validations" of your own subjective experience. > > > > > > What I'm asking is whether, if you personally witnessed > > > levitation, with NO outside "validation" or objective > > > verification, you would trust your own subjective experience. > > > > Nope. I've been an eyewitness to the aftermath of a shooting. I > > had a > > conversation with the perp and looked him right in the eye from a > > foot or so away and talked him into leaving the 7-11 before the > > police came (I didn't realize there had been a gun involved > > outsided so I wasn't nervous in the slightest --I guess he > > responded to that). > > > > I couldn't identify him when he was captured by the police. > > > > > I think that if you wouldn't, you're making a very sad > > > statement indeed, one that has rather profound implications > > > for whether you will realize your own enlightenment in this > > > life. > > > > Just familiar with a few of my limitations, sorry. > > > > > > I've also seen videos of street magicians mystifying passers by > > by "levitating" in front of them. Doug Henning figured out a way to > > make a restaurant appear to "levitate" from all angles outside and > > from the pov of people inside looking out. > > > > Why should I think that my perceptions are all that hot? > > You are free, of course, to live your life any way > you want. However, I might suggest to you that by > taking this stance you are setting yourself up to > never realize enlightenment. Enlightenment (thus far) > is a *completely* subjective experience. No one you > have access to on the planet can "verify" or "validate" > the experience for you. So if/when it happens for you, > you've just said that you won't trust your own experience. > Talk about setting up a subtle level of intention to make > sure you never have to deal with the situation... It's been my experience that inner experiences of the spiritual variety have such a profound sense of "realness" that there's that element of self-referral to it. Plus, since you can't, by definition, "prove" an inner experience it is on a completely different playing field from an experience of outside perception, such as witnessing levitation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Fwd: TM news media coverage summary
Note: forwarded message attached. TM news media coverage summary by US Peace Government Media Team http://www.globalgoodnews.com/world-peace-a.html?art=112352265718398159 Global Country of World Peace9 August 2005 On 9 August 2005 Global Country of World Peace reported: Positive, in-depth world press coverage of Maharishi's Vedic Science and Technology has exploded as never before in the 50 years of Maharishi's movement ever since he began holding Weekly Global News Conferences more than three years ago. It is a joy for Global Good News service to feature this news, which indicates the success of the life-supporting programmes Maharishi has designed to bring fulfilment to the field of world-peace. In fact, there is so much interest in all the programmes that when a single individual boldly steps forward with the public announcement of the intention to utilize one of Maharishi's Vedic programmes it can garner enormous press coverage all over the world. A few weeks ago Washington developer Jeffrey Abramson announced plans to build the world's largest office building according to Maharishi Vedic Architecture. Even though Mr Abramson's building will not be completed for two years, the news of Mr Abramson's plans to utilize Maharishi Vedic Architecture went around the world. An article on Mr Abramson's Tower II building appeared on the front page of the Business section in Washington Post. A week later a second article was published on the deep principles and practices of Vedic architecture on the front page of the Home section of the Washington Post. This Washington Post article on Vedic architecture was reprinted in scores of newspapers around the United States, large and small, including in the San Francisco Chronicle and the Ft Wayne Journal Gazette. Now, this week, news of the establishment of a private foundation in the United States to raise billions of dollars to support all of Maharishi's programmes of Consciousness-Based Education and to create permanent world peace has gone around the world many times over. Award-winning filmmaker David Lynch, who has practised Transcendental Meditation for 32 years, is a Yogic Flyer, and a member of the Board of Trustees of Maharishi University of Management, announced on 21 July, Guru Purnima Day, the formation of a new foundation, called the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace. Its purpose is to raise $7 billion initially, to fund and bring Maharishi's Consciousness-Based, Vedic Education to children throughout America. The foundation will also establish and permanently endow seven large campuses of Maharishi International University of World Peace, each with 8,000 Yogic Flying students. There will be universities on all seven continents. Mr Lynch says he will raise the money from peace-loving philanthropists within the entertainment industry and throughout the business community. The announcement of this intention by David Lynch has created a huge wave of global press coverage and received tremendous positive support by the global press. Here are just a few examples: Newsweek featured a story entitled The Magic of Meditation in which Director David Lynch discusses how to find inner peace and change the world 'to a good one'. This is a completely positive, extensive, in-depth feature article about the profound benefits of Maharishi's Consciousness-Based Education for enlightenment and world peace. This article was read by more than 10 million people all over the world. Another article in the Chronicle of Higher Education (the premier education newsmagazine read by all university and college presidents and other top administrators) begins: Filmmaker Starts Foundation to Help Students Chill Out with Transcendental Meditation. The article says: 'Filmmaker David Lynch will announce today the establishment of the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace, an organization that will promote the mental and physical benefits of Transcendental Meditation. 'Maharishi Mahesh Yogi introduced Transcendental Meditation for ''diving within'' a half-century ago. Researchers have found that it can reduce high blood pressure and improve brain function, among other health benefits. Meditating also improves students' academic performance and fosters their creativity. 'Lynch's foundation intends to bring Transcendental Meditation to students across the country. Even more ambitious is the foundation's plan to raise $7-billion to help establish seven affiliated Universities of World Peace that would train students to become ''professional peacemakers''.' An article in the International Herald Tribune was titled: US filmmaker promotes Transcendental Meditation for world peace Film director David Lynch wants to raise $7 billion to bring about world peace through a massive Transcendental Meditation program. 'This is a way to bring real peace to earth. Real peace isn't just th
[FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > The Tower thang will be a revenue generator (hopefully), and > > > its not TM revenues that are funding it. > > > > To take this tower thing seriously shows a pretty serious disconnect > > with reality. TMO officials have gotten off for the past 5 yrs or > so > > showing these impressive ego-phallic plans but that's as far as it's > > gotten and will ever get. A few long time serious devotees may > > finance and build peace palaces for 1/3 of the profit but not real > > life firms capable of participating in this project. > > I tend to agree with both sparaig and mark, but in a > different way. I don't think that *anyone* in the TMO > ever intends to actually build this building. They're > just running the blueprints as a scam to attract invest- > ment, which they intend to keep when the project inevitably > falls apart. They're so used to being able to get away > with this with meditators (they've been running this scam > successfully for decades) that now they're trying it in > the real world with real investors. If it winds up going > down this way, I foresee prison time for somebody, and > about bloody time, too. ...and along the way the TMO will get to hand out a bunch of wonderful titles, degrees and proclamations to all involved. There will be more paper and gold paint generated on the Tower than actual concrete, dontcha know... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > You are free, of course, to live your life any way > > > you want. However, I might suggest to you that by > > > taking this stance you are setting yourself up to > > > never realize enlightenment. Enlightenment (thus far) > > > is a *completely* subjective experience. No one you > > > have access to on the planet can "verify" or "validate" > > > the experience for you. So if/when it happens for you, > > > you've just said that you won't trust your own experience. > > > Talk about setting up a subtle level of intention to make > > > sure you never have to deal with the situation... > > > > So you're convinced its a situation with which I would have to deal? > > Eventually, absolutely. I am convinced that one of > the key elements involved in realization of one's own > enlightenment involves making that jump from trusting > others more than one trusts one's own perceptions to > trusting one's own perceptions more than one trusts > others. > > Others can comment if they'd like. One's mileage may, > of course, vary on this subject, but I'd suspect that > those here who have experienced awakenings would tend > to agree that a certain level of self-trust is neces- > sary for the realization to happen in the first place > and then to sustain itself. It'll be interesting to > see what people here think of this question. I live for those wonderful "esoteric" experiences we have, which most often -- but not always -- occur during the period of meditation. However, these experiences are the one category of experiences in my life that I do NOT doubt. Pretty much everything that I experience in the relative, on the other hand, I do NOT have the same degree of self-trust. > > But since you're asking me, yes, I'm convinced that > self-trust is *critical* to realization of higher > states of consciousness. That doesn't mean that you > might not get a "second opinion" if you find one you > trust, but the bottom line is that your own experience > is telling you one thing and the "second opinion" is > telling you another, you're at a crossroads. At that > point you either step beyond the barrier of self doubt > and embrace your own realizations or you choose to > believe the "outside authority" and reject them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > > > I've always felt that much of the craziness > emanating from the TMO > over the past 25 years came about because the people > around MMY > didn't reign him in when these ideas came out of his > mouth. > > I haven't been around MMY enough to know the > dynamics of the > relationship he had with them -- so the following is > just > speculation on my part -- but I suspect that in the > days when Jarvis > and Lutes were around that they held him in check. > Nowadays, there > are cult nutcases around him who either encourage > his every whim or > are too caught up in the > Maharishi-is-possessed-of-papal- > infallibility so that they never question him or > hold him in check > when these ideas come up. I agree with this and want to add even more. On my TTC (LaAntilla, 1972) somebody got up and expressed discomfort regarding bowing down to Guru Dev at the end of the puja because they were Jewish. He was sincerely asking MMY for an understanding that would resolve this conflict. MMY's initial response was to blow the guy off. He made jokes and even said that we sin and violate our religion every day, what's one more sin (!). But they guy would not accept any of MMY's answers and would not budge, not out of arrogance but out of complete sincerity and faith in MMY's ability to answer this question. The guy started to cry but wouldn't back off at all. It got really intense with the guy crying and MMY just blowing him off and laughing. All the lights even went off for awhile. When it became clear that the guy was not going to budge, at all, MMY suddenly shifted and said, "Alright" and gave this amazing talk about Guru Dev, bowing down, the puja and God. It was incredibly powerful and resolved, for this guy, any conflict he had. When MMY finished talking the guy asked if the tape of their conversation could be played for every TTC. MMY said, "No. When you dig for water and get oil, you will not appreciate it and just through it away." I wonder what would happen today if someone dug for oil with MMY out of complete and total sincerity and would not budge one inch until their conflict was resolved? I think MMY is surrounded by water drillers and he resonds in like. > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > snip > > > > > > > I've always felt that much of the craziness > > emanating from the TMO > > over the past 25 years came about because the people > > around MMY > > didn't reign him in when these ideas came out of his > > mouth. > > > > I haven't been around MMY enough to know the > > dynamics of the > > relationship he had with them -- so the following is > > just > > speculation on my part -- but I suspect that in the > > days when Jarvis > > and Lutes were around that they held him in check. > > Nowadays, there > > are cult nutcases around him who either encourage > > his every whim or > > are too caught up in the > > Maharishi-is-possessed-of-papal- > > infallibility so that they never question him or > > hold him in check > > when these ideas come up. > > I agree with this and want to add even more. On my TTC > (LaAntilla, 1972) somebody got up and expressed > discomfort regarding bowing down to Guru Dev at the > end of the puja because they were Jewish. He was > sincerely asking MMY for an understanding that would > resolve this conflict. MMY's initial response was to > blow the guy off. He made jokes and even said that we > sin and violate our religion every day, what's one > more sin (!). But they guy would not accept any of > MMY's answers and would not budge, not out of > arrogance but out of complete sincerity and faith in > MMY's ability to answer this question. The guy started > to cry but wouldn't back off at all. It got really > intense with the guy crying and MMY just blowing him > off and laughing. All the lights even went off for > awhile. When it became clear that the guy was not > going to budge, at all, MMY suddenly shifted and said, > "Alright" and gave this amazing talk about Guru Dev, > bowing down, the puja and God. It was incredibly > powerful and resolved, for this guy, any conflict he > had. When MMY finished talking the guy asked if the > tape of their conversation could be played for every > TTC. MMY said, "No. When you dig for water and get > oil, you will not appreciate it and just through it > away." I wonder what would happen today if someone dug > for oil with MMY out of complete and total sincerity > and would not budge one inch until their conflict was > resolved? I think MMY is surrounded by water drillers > and he resonds in like. Most of my bitterness towards the direction the TMO has taken over the years is reserved for those around him. Yes-men do no service to a CEO in a corporation and their counterparts in the TMO do no service to MMY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
Peter writes: I think this self-trust thing in regard to realization is a bit off. Trust is an emotional/mental assumptive act. You have to trust when there is doubt for whatever reason. It's hard to doubt your own experience, even in waking state. But doubting "pure existence" itself is even more difficult! To say I doubt my own existence is a bit of a paradox, of course, because prior to doubting is existence. So you can't doubt that "you are." You can doubt any experience, but not that. Now to inquire into who this "you" is will bring about some interesting results! Tom T writes: If you get the chance it is a real challenge to go to the library and get a 22 ½ pound unabridged dictionary and look up the word trust. You will find about 22 definitions for the word trust. Twenty of these definitions deal with fiduciary relationship with money between banks, lawyers, trust officers and trusts set up by wills. The two definitions that concern the real meaning of the word trust are as follows. The first is information or knowledge received from the intuitive part of the brain. The second and maybe most important is action taken regardless of the consequences. In my experience the real meaning is a combination of the two above. First we receive information from the intuitive side or part of ourselves and then we take action regardless of the consequences. It has been my experience that we live trust without thinking about it. We may squirm or hedge but eventually we know what we must do and we just do it. We know what must be done as surely as we know that we are either a male or a female. A clever and brilliant orator may convince you of most anything, but we know with an intimate knowledge that we are either male or female and no one can convince us otherwise. Every time we go to the bathroom we are very clearly reminded of which we are. The interesting thing about having delved into the meaning of the word trust is that it becomes easier to just trust that things will work out. We feel connected to that part of ourselves from which this intuitive knowledge flows and we move into and flow with it as a matter of course. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > snip > > > > > > > > > > > I've always felt that much of the craziness > > > emanating from the TMO > > > over the past 25 years came about because the people > > > around MMY > > > didn't reign him in when these ideas came out of his > > > mouth. > > > > > > I haven't been around MMY enough to know the > > > dynamics of the > > > relationship he had with them -- so the following is > > > just > > > speculation on my part -- but I suspect that in the > > > days when Jarvis > > > and Lutes were around that they held him in check. > > > Nowadays, there > > > are cult nutcases around him who either encourage > > > his every whim or > > > are too caught up in the > > > Maharishi-is-possessed-of-papal- > > > infallibility so that they never question him or > > > hold him in check > > > when these ideas come up. > > > > I agree with this and want to add even more. On my TTC > > (LaAntilla, 1972) somebody got up and expressed > > discomfort regarding bowing down to Guru Dev at the > > end of the puja because they were Jewish. He was > > sincerely asking MMY for an understanding that would > > resolve this conflict. MMY's initial response was to > > blow the guy off. He made jokes and even said that we > > sin and violate our religion every day, what's one > > more sin (!). But they guy would not accept any of > > MMY's answers and would not budge, not out of > > arrogance but out of complete sincerity and faith in > > MMY's ability to answer this question. The guy started > > to cry but wouldn't back off at all. It got really > > intense with the guy crying and MMY just blowing him > > off and laughing. All the lights even went off for > > awhile. When it became clear that the guy was not > > going to budge, at all, MMY suddenly shifted and said, > > "Alright" and gave this amazing talk about Guru Dev, > > bowing down, the puja and God. It was incredibly > > powerful and resolved, for this guy, any conflict he > > had. When MMY finished talking the guy asked if the > > tape of their conversation could be played for every > > TTC. MMY said, "No. When you dig for water and get > > oil, you will not appreciate it and just through it > > away." I wonder what would happen today if someone dug > > for oil with MMY out of complete and total sincerity > > and would not budge one inch until their conflict was > > resolved? I think MMY is surrounded by water drillers > > and he resonds in like. > > > > Most of my bitterness towards the direction the TMO has taken over > the years is reserved for those around him. Yes-men do no service > to a CEO in a corporation and their counterparts in the TMO do no > service to MMY. > If someone only allows yes-men to stay around, then they get what they want. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "When you dig for water and get > oil, you will not appreciate it and just through it > away." I wonder what would happen today if someone dug > for oil with MMY out of complete and total sincerity > and would not budge one inch until their conflict was > resolved? I think MMY is surrounded by water drillers > and he resonds in like. There's probably something to that. Lazy minds settle for lazy answers. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
Tom T writes: > The two > definitions that concern the real meaning of the word trust are as > follows. The first is information or knowledge received from the > intuitive part of the brain. The second and maybe most important is > action taken regardless of the consequences. In my experience the > real meaning is a combination of the two above. First we receive > information from the intuitive side or part of ourselves and then we > take action regardless of the consequences. That's definitely the experience of those who have learned trust in their intuition. What about those who *don't* trust their intuition? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If someone only allows yes-men to stay around, then they get what > they want. And what they deserve. Karmically and in every other sense... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On my TTC > (LaAntilla, 1972) somebody got up and expressed > discomfort regarding bowing down to Guru Dev at the > end of the puja because they were Jewish. He was > sincerely asking MMY for an understanding that would > resolve this conflict. MMY's initial response was to > blow the guy off. He made jokes and even said that we > sin and violate our religion every day, what's one > more sin (!). But they guy would not accept any of > MMY's answers and would not budge, not out of > arrogance but out of complete sincerity and faith in > MMY's ability to answer this question. The guy started > to cry but wouldn't back off at all. It got really > intense with the guy crying and MMY just blowing him > off and laughing. All the lights even went off for > awhile. When it became clear that the guy was not > going to budge, at all, MMY suddenly shifted and said, > "Alright" and gave this amazing talk about Guru Dev, > bowing down, the puja and God. It was incredibly > powerful and resolved, for this guy, any conflict he > had. When MMY finished talking the guy asked if the > tape of their conversation could be played for every > TTC. MMY said, "No. When you dig for water and get > oil, you will not appreciate it and just through it > away." This is interesting, because when I did TTC in 1980-1981, this tape was played - not the first part of the dialogue you mentioned above, but just the part when MMY began to take him seriously. I remember the tape well, because I remember what a powerful tape it was. I also find it interesting that the tape was cut and put together in such a way that it looked like the guy asked the question and MMY immediately gave the talk you mentioned, without MMY first blowing him off. I wonder what would happen today if someone dug > for oil with MMY out of complete and total sincerity > and would not budge one inch until their conflict was > resolved? I think MMY is surrounded by water drillers > and he resonds in like. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
This Plan is Cancelled. The area of Jabalpur lies in an EarthQuake active zone. Hence, the Indian government has rejected the application for making the highest building over there. Regards ColdWater shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> World's tallest tower planned in India> > http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=117998&Sn=BUSI&IssueID=28130> > World's tallest tower planned in India > > > > CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being> built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. The> -foot (677m) Center of India Tower scheduled for November 6, is being financed> by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (The Beatles former spiritual leader), and will be his new> world headquarters.I read stuff like this and it makes me want to retch.> The firm designing this tower are known for a previous large> development, the Twin Towers in Battery Park City, New York.> > Meanwhile, a twisting 115-storey glass and concrete tower that would be the United> States' tallest building may soon grace Chicago's lakefront, its developer said> yesterday.> > Critics compared the proposed 2,000-foot (610 metre) Fordham Spire to a giant candle> fit for a cake, while others said it was out of place in a post-September 11 world> in which landmark skyscrapers could be terrorist targets.> > The tower, which would house condominiums and a hotel, is the brainchild of> Christopher Carley, chairman of Chicago-based Fordham. > > It was designed by award-winning Spanish-born architect Santiago Calatrava, who is> known for his curvaceous bridges, as well as for designing the winged addition to> Milwaukee's art museum and the transportation center to be built on the site of New> York's Ground Zero.> > The slender tower will soar 1,458 feet (444 metres) to its roof and then add a spire> to reach 2,000 feet (610 metres), topping the 1,450-foot-tall (442 metre) Sears> Tower, currently the nation's tallest, and New York's proposed 1,776-foot-tall (541> metre) Freedom Tower.> > At least two previous designs to build the world's tallest building in Chicago fell> flat for lack of financing since the Sears Tower lost the title of world's tallest> building in 1996 to Kuala Lumpur's twin Petronas Towers.> > Current title-holder Taipei 101 in Taiwan is 1,670 feet (509 metres) tall but it> will soon be eclipsed by the Burj Dubai tower in the United Arab Emirates that may> reach 2,300 feet (700 metres).> > __> Do You Yahoo!?> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page~-> To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] "Thru and thru" dilettante analysis of RV I 164, 39 ; part 3
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > /Rco akSare/ is the 39. verse of the famous
> > /asya-vaamasya -suukta/ of Rgveda. The RSi of that suukta
> > is /Diirgha-tamas/(?long lasting darkness,
> > because he was blind). That verse goes like this:
> >
> > R`co a`kShare' para`me vyoma`n yasmi'n de`vaa adhi` vishve'
> niShe`duH |
> > yas tan na veda` kim R`caa ka'riShyati` ya it tad vi`dus ta
i`me
> sam
> > aa'sate || EN{1}{164}{39}
> >
> > The first word is the nominative plural form of the word /Rk/. In
> > front of a vowel or a voiced consonant that changes to /Rg/, as
> > in /Rg-veda/. The form /Rco/ is sandhi for /RcaH/ that's the
> > nominative plural in pausa (when a pause follows and sandhi is
> > inoperative, or stuff). '-aH' in front of a short 'a' or
> > a voiced consonant changes to '-o'. -- In dictionaries that
> > word appears in the form /Rc/ (not in the "basic" nominative
> singular
> > form /Rk/):
> >
> > Capeller's Sanskrit-English Dictionary
> >
> > 1 Rc 2 f. lustre, beam; hymn, verse; the Rigveda (mostly pl.).
>
>
> Well, /akSare/ is the locative singular form of the noun /akSara(m)/
> Here are some meanings of this adjective/noun:
>
> 1 akSara mfn. imperishable ; unalterable ; m. a sword L. ; S3iva
L. ;
> Vishn2u L. ; (%{A}) f. see %{a4kSarA} below ; (%{am}) n. a
syllable ;
> the syllable %{om} Mn. ; a letter [m. Ra1matUp.] ; a vowel ; a
> sound ; a word ; N. of Brahma ; final beatitude religious
austerity ,
> sacrifice L. ; water RV. i , 34 , 4 and i , 164 , 42 [3,3] ;
> Achyranthes Aspera.
>
> Now, /akSaram/ is prolly first of all a negative(?) adjective:
> 'un-alterable', 'im-perishable'. The syntactical structure
> formed by the first words seems to be slightly interesting:
> if 'akSare' is considered an adjective, it seems to act as an
> attribute to 'vyoman'.
>
> (at·trib·ute
>
> n.
> 7.Gram. a word or phrase that is syntactically subordinate to
> another and serves to limit, identify, particularize, describe, or
> supplement the meaning of the form with which it is in
construction.
> In the red house, red is an attribute of house.)
>
>
> OTOH, if it is considered a noun, it might perchance be called an
> apposition (for 'parame vyoman') or then again, perhaps not.
>
> (ap·po·si·tion (apÅÃ zishÆÃn), n.
>
> 3.Gram. a syntactic relation between expressions, usually
> consecutive, that have the same function and the same relation to
> other elements in the sentence, the second expression identifying
or
> supplementing the first. In Washington, our first president, the
> phrase our first president is in apposition with Washington.)
>
> It seems to us "most" translators treat 'akSare' as a noun, in which
> case the primary meaning of 'Rco akSare' could be 'Rk´s (exist) in
> akSara'. Butt... it seems to be possible to treat 'akSara' also as
> a "genuine" (tatpuruSa-type?) compound noun, in which case 'akSara'
> could be thought to mean 'kSara of (the sound) ´a´'. In this case
> perhaps some other verb would be suitable, instead of 'exist'... :0
R`co a`kShare' *para`me* vyoma`n
Now, 'parame' is locative singular form from the adjective
'parama' which is the superlative grade form of 'para':
1 para a. far, distant, different; either in space, i.e. remote,
opposite, foreign, hostile--or in time, i.e past, previous, former,
ancient, old; subsequent, future, later, last, extreme; --or in
number, order, & degree, i.e. exceeding, more than; following,
standing after, worse, worst; surpassing, superior, better, best (in
the compar. mgs mostly w. abl. or ---). --m. another, stranger, foe,
the supreme Spirit, the Absolute, a man's name. n. remotest distance,
highest point or degree, final beatitude; chief matter or occupation,
esp. adj. --- quite consisting of, filled with, devoted to, intent
upon; as adv. & prep. beyond, after (abl.); hereafter, next,
moreover, further ({ñatas, itas}, or {tatas}), excessively, beyond
measure; at the best, at the utmost; at least, at any rate; but,
however ({ñtu} or {kiM tu}). --Abstr. {paratA} f., {-tva3} n.
parama a. farthest, last, extreme, best or worst, highest, chiefest;
surpassing, better or worse than (abl.). --- as adj. supreme, chief,
adv. highly, exceedingly; --- = {para}; n. {paramam} yes, very well,
with pleasure.
Here 'parame' is modifier of 'vyoman', which is an irregular
locative singular form of the "-an -noun" whose dictionary form
is, well, 'vyoman', and nominative singular is 'vyomaa', analogous
to e.g. 'aatmaa'. The normal ending of locative singular is '-i'.
In 'parame' the final 'e' is the result of sandhi 'parama' + 'i'.
('vyoman' might be thought to be the result of sandhi 'vi' + 'oman',
but we haven't seen that kind of analysis anywhere.)
Thus, 'parame vyoman(i)' could be translated for instance to
'in the highest heaven'.
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > But more importantly doubt/no doubt has to do with > > mind. Realization is outside of mind. It is not an > > experience within any objective or subjective domain. > > However, mind can *prevent* realization. If one > cultivates a mindset of fear and trust only in > "authorities," IMO one can set up conditions such > that realization is not likely to occur. In a way, > it's like the Advaita/satsang discussions we've been > having here lately. Some people are just not gonna > do well in a satsang situation, because they're going > to react in a hurt or angry fashion to being told that > they're already enlightened. *When* they react that > way, they are effectively blocking the realization of > their own enlightenment. Notice the rather extreme irony here: On the one hand, Barry is advocating that one trust one's own experience rather than depending on authorities to validate it And on the other hand, he's telling them that they cannot trust their experience that they are not enlightened and ought instead to accept the authorities' assertion that they are already enlightened. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > But doubting "pure > > existence" itself is even more difficult! To say I > > doubt my own existence is a bit of a paradox, of > > course, because prior to doubting is existence. So you > > can't doubt that "you are." You can doubt any > > experience, but not that. > > You brought in a term and I'm not sure how you're > defining it. What do you mean by "pure existence?" > If you're talking about clear transcendence or > samadhi, again we must agree to disagree. (I suspect Peter is just making a statement along the lines of "cogito ergo sum." It's difficult to doubt *that* one exists, because in order to doubt, one would first have to exist.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > But more importantly doubt/no doubt has to do > with > > > mind. Realization is outside of mind. It is not > an > > > experience within any objective or subjective > domain. > > > > However, mind can *prevent* realization. If one > > cultivates a mindset of fear and trust only in > > "authorities," IMO one can set up conditions such > > that realization is not likely to occur. In a > way, > > it's like the Advaita/satsang discussions we've > been > > having here lately. Some people are just not > gonna > > do well in a satsang situation, because they're > going > > to react in a hurt or angry fashion to being told > that > > they're already enlightened. *When* they react > that > > way, they are effectively blocking the realization > of > > their own enlightenment. > > Notice the rather extreme irony here: > > On the one hand, Barry is advocating that one > trust one's own experience rather than depending > on authorities to validate it > > And on the other hand, he's telling them that > they cannot trust their experience that they are > not enlightened and ought instead to accept the > authorities' assertion that they are already > enlightened. > > Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't... Time to transcend! > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Cold Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This Plan is Cancelled. > > The area of Jabalpur lies in an EarthQuake active zone. > Hence, the Indian government has rejected the application for making the highest building over there. > > Regards > ColdWater The question is, *When* did the Indian guvmint reject the application? If it was a while ago, then the blueprints are *definitely* being used as a fund-raising ripoff scam. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
TorquoiseB writes: What about those who *don't* trust their intuition? Tom T writes: It will have you either way. You can only push it away for a while until it can no longer be ignored. It is like trying to dam up a stream, eventually you have to let some water out or the dam busts. This can not be denied. One reason we all get it, sooner or later. For some it may be a long later but it can not be denied. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > But more importantly doubt/no doubt has to do with > > > mind. Realization is outside of mind. It is not an > > > experience within any objective or subjective domain. > > > > However, mind can *prevent* realization. If one > > cultivates a mindset of fear and trust only in > > "authorities," IMO one can set up conditions such > > that realization is not likely to occur. In a way, > > it's like the Advaita/satsang discussions we've been > > having here lately. Some people are just not gonna > > do well in a satsang situation, because they're going > > to react in a hurt or angry fashion to being told that > > they're already enlightened. *When* they react that > > way, they are effectively blocking the realization of > > their own enlightenment. > > Notice the rather extreme irony here: > > On the one hand, Barry is advocating that one > trust one's own experience rather than depending > on authorities to validate it > > And on the other hand, he's telling them that > they cannot trust their experience that they are > not enlightened and ought instead to accept the > authorities' assertion that they are already > enlightened. It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced satsang (and that's wise because you'd never be able to handle it). It's not about believing what the teacher tells you; it's about ceasing to believe what *you* tell you. In that cessation of storytelling magic can happen. The magic has nothing to do with the teacher, or with anything he or she says. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Notice the rather extreme irony here: > > > > On the one hand, Barry is advocating that one > > trust one's own experience rather than depending > > on authorities to validate it > > > > And on the other hand, he's telling them that > > they cannot trust their experience that they are > > not enlightened and ought instead to accept the > > authorities' assertion that they are already > > enlightened. > > > > Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't... > > Time to transcend! Exactly. Peter gets satsang; Judy doesn't. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
Judy writes: And on the other hand, he's telling them that they cannot trust their experience that they are not enlightened and ought instead to accept the authorities' assertion that they are already enlightened. Tom T writes: The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not being enlightened is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- scienceofabundance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > On my TTC > > (LaAntilla, 1972) somebody got up and expressed > > discomfort regarding bowing down to Guru Dev at > the > > end of the puja because they were Jewish. He was > > sincerely asking MMY for an understanding that > would > > resolve this conflict. MMY's initial response was > to > > blow the guy off. He made jokes and even said that > we > > sin and violate our religion every day, what's one > > more sin (!). But they guy would not accept any of > > MMY's answers and would not budge, not out of > > arrogance but out of complete sincerity and faith > in > > MMY's ability to answer this question. The guy > started > > to cry but wouldn't back off at all. It got really > > intense with the guy crying and MMY just blowing > him > > off and laughing. All the lights even went off for > > awhile. When it became clear that the guy was not > > going to budge, at all, MMY suddenly shifted and > said, > > "Alright" and gave this amazing talk about Guru > Dev, > > bowing down, the puja and God. It was incredibly > > powerful and resolved, for this guy, any conflict > he > > had. When MMY finished talking the guy asked if > the > > tape of their conversation could be played for > every > > TTC. MMY said, "No. When you dig for water and get > > oil, you will not appreciate it and just through > it > > away." > > This is interesting, because when I did TTC in > 1980-1981, this tape > was played - not the first part of the dialogue you > mentioned above, > but just the part when MMY began to take him > seriously. I remember > the tape well, because I remember what a powerful > tape it was. I > also find it interesting that the tape was cut and > put together in > such a way that it looked like the guy asked the > question and MMY > immediately gave the talk you mentioned, without MMY > first blowing > him off. I too have heard the tape of that night several times. It is a standard TTC tape. I see that what preceded it as even more powerful than the tape content itself. There is also another standard TTC tape that starts with a woman, I believe, asking in a very, very soft voice, "Maharishi, will you tell us something about Guru Dev?" And Maharishi says in this amazingly sweet voice filled with such love and devotion,"Guru Dev!" But what preceded this tape was MMY ripping into this guy (some Ph.D.) for wasting his time right after he had made all these initiators in La Antilla. The guy wouldn't get off the mic and was incredibly arrogant complaining about the failings of MIU press not publishing his poems. They obviously were blowing him off but he was too narcissistic to catch the hint. MMY tolerated him for a while and politely asked him to get off the mic. But the guy kept on saying, "One more thing Maharishi" or something like that. Then suddenly Maharishi EXPLODED in pure rage and screamed, SIT DOWN! It was so intense. He then proceeded to alternate between ripping into the guy and praising him for his intelligent mind. All they guy could do was back away from the mic muttering, But...but...but..but. MMY took a big breath, let it out, and completely transcended. Just complete silence for about 20 seconds. And then the girl asked her question. The amazing thing was the instant shift from the burning, intense fury to the soft sweet love of devotion! This was in the big tent in La Antilla in the early spring of '73. > > > > > > > I wonder what would happen today if someone dug > > for oil with MMY out of complete and total > sincerity > > and would not budge one inch until their conflict > was > > resolved? I think MMY is surrounded by water > drillers > > and he resonds in like. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Or go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
Re: [FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Judy writes: > And on the other hand, he's telling them that > they cannot trust their experience that they are > not enlightened and ought instead to accept the > authorities' assertion that they are already > enlightened. > > Tom T writes: > The idea you are not enlightened is not an > experience it is an idea. > The experience of awakening is very real, very > visceral. It is > profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not > being enlightened > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am > not awake" is known > in the gut of the physiology. Tom Great response! > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
TurquoiseB writes: > What about those who *don't* trust their intuition? > Tom T writes: > It will have you either way. You can only push it away for a while > until it can no longer be ignored. It is like trying to dam up a > stream, eventually you have to let some water out or the dam busts. > This can not be denied. One reason we all get it, sooner or later. For > some it may be a long later but it can not be denied. Again, agreed, but what I'm wondering about is that period *before* it "gets ya." It seems to me that one can put ones self under a great deal of uneces- sary pressure for years or even lifetimes by trying to dam up the stream and deny intuition as the closest one is likely to get to "truth." It also seems to me that, interestingly, whole spirit- ual traditions -- those that preach dogma and strict adherence to dogma or to what "teachersez" -- seem to be *founded* on trying to dam up the stream. Their sadhana is *based* on denying ones intuition or sense of inner rightness in favor of the dogma's idea of rightness or the teacher's idea of rightness. You're right...the dam's gonna burst either way, but isn't it fascinating that some traditions have their students building and patching dams for decades (or even lifetimes) before it does? Seems to me it might have been a little more direct to teach respect for intuition and self-trust from Day One. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:56 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > It also seems to me that, interestingly, whole spirit- > ual traditions -- those that preach dogma and strict > adherence to dogma or to what "teachersez" -- seem to > be *founded* on trying to dam up the stream. Their > sadhana is *based* on denying ones intuition or sense > of inner rightness in favor of the dogma's idea of > rightness or the teacher's idea of rightness. Not if what the 'teachersez' is a spontaneous upadesha aimed directly at what you are experiencing. These are intimate matters and if truly compassionate they will hit their mark. The further you get away from just plain old Gnosis the less relevant any teaching becomes for realization (Give me that ole time Gnosis). But if the teacher is "canned" the teaching might as well be. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:51 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: > The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. > The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is > profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not being enlightened > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" is known > in the gut of the physiology. Tom The idea that there is an idea that you are not enlightened and it is not an experience but an idea is also an idea. It's also a story. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:56 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > It also seems to me that, interestingly, whole spirit- > > ual traditions -- those that preach dogma and strict > > adherence to dogma or to what "teachersez" -- seem to > > be *founded* on trying to dam up the stream. Their > > sadhana is *based* on denying ones intuition or sense > > of inner rightness in favor of the dogma's idea of > > rightness or the teacher's idea of rightness. > > Not if what the 'teachersez' is a spontaneous upadesha aimed directly > at what you are experiencing. These are intimate matters and if truly > compassionate they will hit their mark. Agreed. That's a different situation. And rare in the West as far as I can tell. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > But more importantly doubt/no doubt has to do with > > > > mind. Realization is outside of mind. It is not an > > > > experience within any objective or subjective domain. > > > > > > However, mind can *prevent* realization. If one > > > cultivates a mindset of fear and trust only in > > > "authorities," IMO one can set up conditions such > > > that realization is not likely to occur. In a way, > > > it's like the Advaita/satsang discussions we've been > > > having here lately. Some people are just not gonna > > > do well in a satsang situation, because they're going > > > to react in a hurt or angry fashion to being told that > > > they're already enlightened. *When* they react that > > > way, they are effectively blocking the realization of > > > their own enlightenment. > > > > Notice the rather extreme irony here: > > > > On the one hand, Barry is advocating that one > > trust one's own experience rather than depending > > on authorities to validate it > > > > And on the other hand, he's telling them that > > they cannot trust their experience that they are > > not enlightened and ought instead to accept the > > authorities' assertion that they are already > > enlightened. > > It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced > satsang (and that's wise because you'd never be able > to handle it). "Handle it" meaning, according to Barry, accepting what the authorities tell you. (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, he would know I have indeed experienced it.) > It's not about believing what the > teacher tells you; it's about ceasing to believe what > *you* tell you. It's about believing the teacher's dictum that you should cease to believe what you "tell" you-- including the dictum that your experiential reality is no more than what you "tell" yourself. > In that cessation of storytelling > magic can happen. The magic has nothing to do with > the teacher, or with anything he or she says. Whichever way you want to slice it, it still boils down to the requirement that you not trust your own experience. Notice that I didn't come down on one side or the other in my analysis. I was merely pointing out that Barry was advocating two mutually exclusive things without realizing he was doing so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
On Aug 11, 2005, at 10:16 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: >> Not if what the 'teachersez' is a spontaneous upadesha aimed directly >> at what you are experiencing. These are intimate matters and if truly >> compassionate they will hit their mark. > > Agreed. That's a different situation. > And rare in the West as far as I can tell. Relatively speaking (in comparison to large meditation movements), oh yeah. Although having said that, there are many mahasiddhas and enlightened beings who only met their teacher once or a couple of times in their entire lifetime. Once there's been an authentic "pointing out instruction" (of the primordial state) and there is a "connection" given to the lineage of masters, that's all one may need. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Judy writes: > And on the other hand, he's telling them that > they cannot trust their experience that they are > not enlightened and ought instead to accept the > authorities' assertion that they are already > enlightened. > > Tom T writes: > The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. > The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is > profoundly based in the physiology. So is the experience of ignorance. The idea of not being enlightened > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" is known > in the gut of the physiology. Tom That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It also seems to me that, interestingly, whole spirit- > ual traditions -- those that preach dogma and strict > adherence to dogma or to what "teachersez" -- seem to > be *founded* on trying to dam up the stream. Their > sadhana is *based* on denying ones intuition or sense > of inner rightness in favor of the dogma's idea of > rightness or the teacher's idea of rightness. Again, notice the contradiction. If one's intuition and sense of inner rightness is that one is not enlightened, one should deny it in favor of the dogma's idea that one is already enlightened. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:51 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: > > > The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an > > idea. The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It > > is profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not being > > enlightened is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not > > awake" is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom > > The idea that there is an idea that you are not enlightened and it > is not an experience but an idea is also an idea. It's also a story. Thank you. Precisely. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
> > It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced > > satsang (and that's wise because you'd never be able > > to handle it). > > "Handle it" meaning, according to Barry, accepting what > the authorities tell you. Not at all. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. > (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, > he would know I have indeed experienced it.) Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? And when? And how many times did you sit satsang with this teacher or teachers. We'll wait. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Judy writes: > > And on the other hand, he's telling them that > > they cannot trust their experience that they are > > not enlightened and ought instead to accept the > > authorities' assertion that they are already > > enlightened. > > > > Tom T writes: > > The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. > > > > > The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is > > profoundly based in the physiology. > > So is the experience of ignorance. > > > The idea of not being enlightened > > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" > > is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom > > That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. I repeat last week's statement: "Stress is an excuse." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It also seems to me that, interestingly, whole spirit- > > ual traditions -- those that preach dogma and strict > > adherence to dogma or to what "teachersez" -- seem to > > be *founded* on trying to dam up the stream. Their > > sadhana is *based* on denying ones intuition or sense > > of inner rightness in favor of the dogma's idea of > > rightness or the teacher's idea of rightness. > > Again, notice the contradiction. If one's intuition > and sense of inner rightness is that one is not > enlightened, one should deny it in favor of the > dogma's idea that one is already enlightened. Judy, I'm not going to argue with you. You're too boring to argue with. But what's with you not being able to handle contradictions? Is your mind that small? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:51 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: > > > The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. > > The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is > > profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not being enlightened > > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" is known > > in the gut of the physiology. Tom > > The idea that there is an idea that you are not enlightened and it is > not an experience but an idea is also an idea. It's also a story. Same question, then: where and how is the experience of not being enlightened felt in the physiology? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think this self-trust thing in regard to realization > is a bit off. Trust is an emotional/mental assumptive > act. You have to trust when there is doubt for > whatever reason. It's hard to doubt your own > experience, even in waking state. But doubting "pure > existence" itself is even more difficult! To say I > doubt my own existence is a bit of a paradox, of > course, because prior to doubting is existence. So you > can't doubt that "you are." You can doubt any > experience, but not that. Now to inquire into who this > "you" is will bring about some interesting results! > You seem to mean by realization a state of being where the conscious mind's thinking process has stopped and what is left is just silent awareness and witnessing. However this state cannot last in everyday activity, because conscious conceptual thinking forms an important evolutionary function for us. I don't want to deny the value of this silent state, but personally I mean by realization a permanent formation of a new more advanced, more holistic and inclusive structure of the mind. This new structure is capable of better and more truthfully relating to the world than the previous structure. I think that it is an important cornerstone in the evolution of our mind to learn to trust oneself more than someone we consider to be an authority. This could also mean being better capable of discriminating, when to trust an authority and when not. It is clear we cannot be specialists in every area, so we have to trust the authority of others, but less in interpreting our subjective experiences. Of course it is good to have an open mind and listen to what others have to say, but I myself am the authority who decides, if I accept that information or not. Irmeli To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
Tom T writes:> The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. Judy writes: So is the experience of ignorance. Tom T: Again, ignorance is not an experience it is an idea with a story. Tell me in detail how you experience this ignorance. Where and it what degree and how it effects your physiology. Tom T Writes: The idea of not being enlightened > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom Judy writes: That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. Tom T; Be specific please. What do you know and how does it appear in the physiology. This is not a trap but genuine inquiry. I really want to know how it appears for you and what sensations in the physiology you can comment on. Thanks Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Could be. As Llundrub's and my exchange locally > > demonstrates, waking > > > up is dependent on nothing. I'll keep saying my > > prayers, silly as > > > that seems, and hope for the best. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I am an MIU grad though and sidha of 20 > > years, and was > > surrounded by rudraksha and Siva lingas. The fact > > that I had > > completely fallen didn't apparently remove me from > > the list of > > potential awakened ones though. And then as I > > looked back more things > > came into focus like initiations I had taken but > > discounted or > > forgotten, like I was initiated by a devotee of > > Dattatreya when I was > > fourteen, and by the Golden Dawn, and so on. So far > > from being > > dependent on nothing, it was dependent upon > > everything more than > > likely. > > > > Intention seems to play a BIG part doesn't it? > > I see sincere intention as organizing the whole thing. > Oddly so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In > > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Judy writes: > > > And on the other hand, he's telling them that > > > they cannot trust their experience that they are > > > not enlightened and ought instead to accept the > > > authorities' assertion that they are already > > > enlightened. > > > > > > Tom T writes: > > > The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an > idea. > > > > > > > > > The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is > > > profoundly based in the physiology. > > > > So is the experience of ignorance. > > > > > The idea of not being enlightened > > > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" > > > is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom > > > > That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. > > I repeat last week's statement: "Stress is an excuse." Did you think you were responding to a post that was talking about stress? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced > > > satsang (and that's wise because you'd never be able > > > to handle it). > > > > "Handle it" meaning, according to Barry, accepting what > > the authorities tell you. > > Not at all. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. Au contraire, pierre. You obviously don't want to admit that I caught you talking out of both sides of your mouth again. > > (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, > > he would know I have indeed experienced it.) > > Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with > exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? > And when? And how many times did you sit satsang > with this teacher or teachers. We'll wait. Notice that Barry has conveniently deleted the previous material that showed how he had been using the term "satsang," so he could surreptitiously (he hoped) change it in order to accomplish his putdown. This forum is a satsang; so are previous TM-related forums I've been on. I've already described my interaction, public and private, with a (presumably enlightened) TM teacher on a different forum, so Barry had no need to wait (if he'd been paying attention, as I said). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced > > > satsang... > > (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, > > he would know I have indeed experienced it.) > > Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with > exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? > And when? And how many times did you sit satsang > with this teacher or teachers. Oh, and one more question, actually the most important one when talking of satsang -- when you were sitting in the room with the person conducting the satsang, did you interact with them personally and have a one-to-one conver- sation or did you just sit and watch? I really find this to be the key as to whether one gets anything out of the experience or not. I'm sorry if you've provided this information in the past and I missed it, but if you have, I missed it. So just fill me in with the info again, if you would. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > It also seems to me that, interestingly, whole spirit- > > > ual traditions -- those that preach dogma and strict > > > adherence to dogma or to what "teachersez" -- seem to > > > be *founded* on trying to dam up the stream. Their > > > sadhana is *based* on denying ones intuition or sense > > > of inner rightness in favor of the dogma's idea of > > > rightness or the teacher's idea of rightness. > > > > Again, notice the contradiction. If one's intuition > > and sense of inner rightness is that one is not > > enlightened, one should deny it in favor of the > > dogma's idea that one is already enlightened. > > Judy, I'm not going to argue with you. > You're too boring to argue with. But > what's with you not being able to handle > contradictions? Is your mind that small? Translation: Well, I don't see any way to talk myself out of this one, so I'll just pretend I'm bored with Judy, and toss in yet another putdown to make it seem as though I triumphed. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This new structure is capable of better and more truthfully relating > to the world than the previous structure. I think that it is an > important cornerstone in the evolution of our mind to learn to trust > oneself more than someone we consider to be an authority. This could > also mean being better capable of discriminating, when to trust an > authority and when not. It is clear we cannot be specialists in every > area, so we have to trust the authority of others, but less in > interpreting our subjective experiences. Of course it is good to have > an open mind and listen to what others have to say, but I myself am > the authority who decides, if I accept that information or not. Yeah. What she said. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
I have read this entire thread, something I would not normally do, and I declare my brain to be well and truly fried. The really interesting part for me is this Barry-Judy thing. What's their story? Do they really despise each other? Why? How did it all begin? Did they ever have a little thing going, perhaps? I like human stories. These discussions about who "gets" satsang and who doesn't seem like intellectual one-upmanship. Whoever has the most deft mind wins. I would sooner have no mind at all. But I do love soap operas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > It also seems to me that, interestingly, whole spirit- > > > ual traditions -- those that preach dogma and strict > > > adherence to dogma or to what "teachersez" -- seem to > > > be *founded* on trying to dam up the stream. Their > > > sadhana is *based* on denying ones intuition or sense > > > of inner rightness in favor of the dogma's idea of > > > rightness or the teacher's idea of rightness. > > > > Again, notice the contradiction. If one's intuition > > and sense of inner rightness is that one is not > > enlightened, one should deny it in favor of the > > dogma's idea that one is already enlightened. > > Judy, I'm not going to argue with you. > You're too boring to argue with. But > what's with you not being able to handle > contradictions? Is your mind that small? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced > > > > satsang (and that's wise because you'd never be able > > > > to handle it). > > > > > > "Handle it" meaning, according to Barry, accepting what > > > the authorities tell you. > > > > Not at all. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. > > Au contraire, pierre. You obviously don't want to > admit that I caught you talking out of both sides > of your mouth again. > > > > (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, > > > he would know I have indeed experienced it.) > > > > Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with > > exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? > > And when? And how many times did you sit satsang > > with this teacher or teachers. We'll wait. > > Notice that Barry has conveniently deleted the > previous material that showed how he had been using > the term "satsang," so he could surreptitiously (he > hoped) change it in order to accomplish his putdown. > > This forum is a satsang; so are previous TM-related > forums I've been on. I've already described my > interaction, public and private, with a (presumably > enlightened) TM teacher on a different forum, so > Barry had no need to wait (if he'd been paying > attention, as I said). Ok. So you haven't really ever sat satsang with a living teacher, right? In the same room, having a one-on-one conversation with him or her, that sorta thing? I'm just trying to get things straight here. Give a straight answer and the matter is dropped. Or you could evade answering again, and the matter is still dropped. Your call. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have read this entire thread, something I would not normally > do... > I would sooner have no mind at all. But I do love soap operas. LOL To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tom T writes:> The experience of awakening is very real, very > visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. > > Judy writes: > So is the experience of ignorance. > > Tom T: Again, ignorance is not an experience it is an idea with a > story. Tell me in detail how you experience this ignorance. Where and > it what degree and how it effects your physiology. > > Tom T Writes: The idea of not being enlightened > > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" is > known in the gut of the physiology. Tom > > Judy writes: > That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. > > Tom T; > Be specific please. What do you know and how does it appear in the > physiology. This is not a trap but genuine inquiry. I really want to > know how it appears for you and what sensations in the physiology > you can comment on. Thanks Tom I'd characterize it generally as a feeling of resistance. It can manifest in many different ways, from "butterflies in the stomach" to feeling drowsy to feeling hungry to feeling a lack of physical energy, among other things, and overall a feeling of resistance to just "being with" those discomforts, the sense that they constitute interference that has to be removed. Another example would be severe physical pain and an accompanying sense of panic if there isn't some way to quickly mitigate it. Another way to put it is that what MMY calls the mind's tendency to go for "more and more" is still in operation: one continues compulsively to seek to increase pleasure and minimize pain, psychic or physical (and the two are reciprocal). The physiology is not supporting the experience of "All," which would terminate the compulsion (as opposed to just the inclination) to seek "more and more." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- feste37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have read this entire thread, something I would > not normally do, > and I > declare my brain to be well and truly fried. The > really interesting > part for me is > this Barry-Judy thing. What's their story? Do they > really despise > each other? > Why? How did it all begin? Did they ever have a > little thing going, > perhaps? I > like human stories. These discussions about who > "gets" satsang and > who > doesn't seem like intellectual one-upmanship. > Whoever has the most > deft > mind wins. I would sooner have no mind at all. But > I do love soap operas. Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each other! ;-) > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > It also seems to me that, interestingly, whole > spirit- > > > > ual traditions -- those that preach dogma and > strict > > > > adherence to dogma or to what "teachersez" -- > seem to > > > > be *founded* on trying to dam up the stream. > Their > > > > sadhana is *based* on denying ones intuition > or sense > > > > of inner rightness in favor of the dogma's > idea of > > > > rightness or the teacher's idea of rightness. > > > > > > Again, notice the contradiction. If one's > intuition > > > and sense of inner rightness is that one is not > > > enlightened, one should deny it in favor of the > > > dogma's idea that one is already enlightened. > > > > Judy, I'm not going to argue with you. > > You're too boring to argue with. But > > what's with you not being able to handle > > contradictions? Is your mind that small? > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tom T writes:> The experience of awakening is very > real, very > visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. > > Judy writes: > So is the experience of ignorance. > > Tom T: Again, ignorance is not an experience it is > an idea with a > story. Tell me in detail how you experience this > ignorance. Where and > it what degree and how it effects your physiology. > > Tom T Writes: The idea of not being enlightened > > is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am > not awake" is > known in the gut of the physiology. Tom > > Judy writes: > That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. > > Tom T; > Be specific please. What do you know and how does it > appear in the > physiology. This is not a trap but genuine inquiry. > I really want to > know how it appears for you and what sensations in > the physiology you > can comment on. Thanks Tom Go Tommy go! This is like inquiring after that self-evident "I".you can't find it! It's just a very, very subtle thought. > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
On Aug 11, 2005, at 10:40 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:51 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: >> >>> The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an > idea. >>> The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is >>> profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not being > enlightened >>> is a story. Tell me where and how that idea "I am not awake" is > known >>> in the gut of the physiology. Tom >> >> The idea that there is an idea that you are not enlightened and it > is >> not an experience but an idea is also an idea. It's also a story. > > Same question, then: where and how is the experience of not being > enlightened felt in the physiology? It's felt by a feeler. Therefore it's dualistic. What is felt? Perhaps a sense of dis-ease, perhaps tension, maybe anxiety or neurosis. There are many different experiencers capable of experiencing. There are therefore as many answers are there are styles of dis-ease and separation. Not everyone experiences the enlightened state as sensation-riding-on-emptiness so it is a rather limited "idea". The idea that physiology is important is IMO merely a style of conditioning common in TM circles. You were taught that this was important. And of course it sounds cool to say. The question I naturally would want to ask is 'why are you accepting that conditioning (that physiology is relevant re: "enlightenment") as important? How are you defining "physiology" as an idea? The physiology and enlightenment story is a popular TMO drama. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have read this entire thread, something I would not normally do, > and I declare my brain to be well and truly fried. The really > interesting part for me is this Barry-Judy thing. What's their > story? Do they really despise each other? Yes. (Barry will deny he despises me, but he won't be telling the truth.) > Why? How did it all begin? Did they ever have a little thing going, > perhaps? No. It started on alt.m.t about 10 years ago. And it's not just *me* and Barry, incidentally, as far as alt.m.t is concerned. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > > Be specific please. What do you know and how does it appear in the > > physiology. This is not a trap but genuine inquiry. I really want > > know how it appears for you and what sensations in the physiology > > you can comment on. Thanks Tom > > I'd characterize it generally as a feeling of > resistance. It can manifest in many different > ways, from "butterflies in the stomach" to > feeling drowsy to feeling hungry to feeling a > lack of physical energy, among other things, and > overall a feeling of resistance to just "being > with" those discomforts, the sense that they > constitute interference that has to be removed. > Another example would be severe physical pain > and an accompanying sense of panic if there isn't > some way to quickly mitigate it. > > Another way to put it is that what MMY calls > the mind's tendency to go for "more and more" > is still in operation: one continues > compulsively to seek to increase pleasure and > minimize pain, psychic or physical (and the > two are reciprocal). The physiology is not > supporting the experience of "All," which > would terminate the compulsion (as opposed > to just the inclination) to seek "more and > more." That was very well stated. Seriously. I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced > > > > > satsang (and that's wise because you'd never be able > > > > > to handle it). > > > > > > > > "Handle it" meaning, according to Barry, accepting what > > > > the authorities tell you. > > > > > > Not at all. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. > > > > Au contraire, pierre. You obviously don't want to > > admit that I caught you talking out of both sides > > of your mouth again. > > > > > > (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, > > > > he would know I have indeed experienced it.) > > > > > > Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with > > > exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? > > > And when? And how many times did you sit satsang > > > with this teacher or teachers. We'll wait. > > > > Notice that Barry has conveniently deleted the > > previous material that showed how he had been using > > the term "satsang," so he could surreptitiously (he > > hoped) change it in order to accomplish his putdown. > > > > This forum is a satsang; so are previous TM-related > > forums I've been on. I've already described my > > interaction, public and private, with a (presumably > > enlightened) TM teacher on a different forum, so > > Barry had no need to wait (if he'd been paying > > attention, as I said). > > Ok. So you haven't really ever sat satsang > with a living teacher, right? In the same > room, having a one-on-one conversation with > him or her, that sorta thing? I'm just trying > to get things straight here. Right, unless you count enlightened TM teachers (other than MMY). > Give a straight answer and the matter is dropped. > > Or you could evade answering again, and the matter > is still dropped. Didn't "evade answering" in the first place, of course. Rather, you changed the way you were using the term "satsang." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each > other! ;-) Actually, I do kinda admire Judy's intellect. She's often smart and incisive and well-stated. It's just that at the same time, based on ten years of obser- vation, I think that she'd be a much happier person if she used that intellect a little less and just felt things a little more. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In > > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > > > Be specific please. What do you know and how does it appear in the > > > physiology. This is not a trap but genuine inquiry. I really want > > > know how it appears for you and what sensations in the physiology > > > you can comment on. Thanks Tom > > > > I'd characterize it generally as a feeling of > > resistance. It can manifest in many different > > ways, from "butterflies in the stomach" to > > feeling drowsy to feeling hungry to feeling a > > lack of physical energy, among other things, and > > overall a feeling of resistance to just "being > > with" those discomforts, the sense that they > > constitute interference that has to be removed. > > Another example would be severe physical pain > > and an accompanying sense of panic if there isn't > > some way to quickly mitigate it. > > > > Another way to put it is that what MMY calls > > the mind's tendency to go for "more and more" > > is still in operation: one continues > > compulsively to seek to increase pleasure and > > minimize pain, psychic or physical (and the > > two are reciprocal). The physiology is not > > supporting the experience of "All," which > > would terminate the compulsion (as opposed > > to just the inclination) to seek "more and > > more." > > That was very well stated. Seriously. > > I know this conversation is with Tom, > and I honestly don't want to get in the > way of it, but just as a question, which > do you think comes first -- the physical > feelings of discomfort, or the resistance > to Self? What resistance to Self? > In other words, do you think that some- > thing happens on a physiological level > and as a result the inclination to seek > more and more lessens? Or could it be > that one resists the inclination to seek > more and more, resists the Self, and the > physiological sensations are the result? I didn't say anything about resisting the inclination to seek more and more; to the contrary, I said it's a *compulsion*. So I'm not at all sure what you're asking. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each > > other! ;-) > > Actually, I do kinda admire Judy's intellect. She's > often smart and incisive and well-stated. It's just > that at the same time, based on ten years of obser- > vation, I think that she'd be a much happier person > if she used that intellect a little less and just > felt things a little more. As if Barry had any idea to what degree I "feel things." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 11, 2005, at 10:40 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > Same question, then: where and how is the experience of not being > > enlightened felt in the physiology? > > It's felt by a feeler. Therefore it's dualistic. What is felt? Perhaps > a sense of dis-ease, perhaps tension, maybe anxiety or neurosis. There > are many different experiencers capable of experiencing. There are > therefore as many answers are there are styles of dis-ease and > separation. > > Not everyone experiences the enlightened state as > sensation-riding-on-emptiness so it is a rather limited "idea". > > The idea that physiology is important is IMO merely a style of > conditioning common in TM circles. You were taught that this was > important. And of course it sounds cool to say. The question I > naturally would want to ask is 'why are you accepting that conditioning > (that physiology is relevant re: "enlightenment") as important? > > How are you defining "physiology" as an idea? > > The physiology and enlightenment story is a popular TMO drama. You are assuming that I have asked the question merely to play out a drama that I am conditioned to play out, with no purpose other than reinforcing a story that my small self finds important. That would be an impractical thing to do, without any purpose whatsoever, in my opinion. Rather, the reason that I posed the question was because of my personal belief based on experience, that if the idea or experience of being unawakened can be identified and *localized* within the physical body's physiology, it can be dealt with, and eliminated, if one so chooses. So my only purpose for bringing this up was to begin to share a method of uncovering the Self that I believe applies to anyone. It does make the assumption that we use the physical body as a vehicle for our development. How do you understand the process of awakening, and how does it avoid any connection to the purification of the body's physiology? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each > > > other! ;-) > > > > Actually, I do kinda admire Judy's intellect. She's > > often smart and incisive and well-stated. It's just > > that at the same time, based on ten years of obser- > > vation, I think that she'd be a much happier person > > if she used that intellect a little less and just > > felt things a little more. > > As if Barry had any idea to what degree I "feel things." Just to finish up, by "feel things" I was still thinking of Tom's and other FFL folks' advice to you to recently to try to be with the sensations that come up when you get your buttons pushed, to "feel the body." Then in your description you just posted, you said: > > I'd characterize it generally as a feeling of > > resistance. It can manifest in many different > > ways, from "butterflies in the stomach" to > > feeling drowsy to feeling hungry to feeling a > > lack of physical energy, among other things, and > > overall a feeling of resistance to just "being > > with" those discomforts It sounded to me that what you were describing in that last phrase as the "overall" sensation was the *precisely* a feeling of resistance to "feeling the body." Was I wrong about this? I was suggesting in my statement about you that I thought you'd be a much happier person if you just "felt the body" more and spent more time just being with these physical sensations. I still think this is true. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
On Aug 11, 2005, at 11:36 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: > Rather, the reason that I posed the question was because of my > personal belief based on experience, that if the idea or experience > of being unawakened can be identified and *localized* within the > physical body's physiology, it can be dealt with, and eliminated, if > one so chooses. Yeah I see what you are saying. Ease of tensions at the level of the body is helpful. I find mind-tension often is related to and held by body tension. I place my awareness there and smile. Sometimes I just smile. On a side note my wife actually did her graduate work on bodily tension in premature babies. We are all born with tension and trauma. One part of the collective American dis-ease IMO is that we don't touch each other that much. Mothers don't massage their babies and grandchildren don't massage their grandparents. Energy locks in external arguments. We support each other in carrying our tensions. A friends of ours, Eva Reich, has worked a lot with this--esp. in Neonates. It was really with her help that years ago I sought out a practitioner to help dissolve what Eva's father called "character armor". I was fortunate, it was a relatively easy thing for me if remembered to breathe. > > So my only purpose for bringing this up was to begin to share a > method of uncovering the Self that I believe applies to anyone. It > does make the assumption that we use the physical body as a vehicle > for our development. Yes, it's an important piece. > How do you understand the process of awakening, and how does it > avoid any connection to the purification of the body's physiology? Full enlightenment is relaxation down to our very cells--which are really just light trapped in upon itself. I don't know that you avoid purification of the body--and yes I think it is helpful--but I also don't see purification of body as a necessity. The body manifests it's shadow because we share karma reminiscent of the human realm and this waking dimension. When we diminish those "causes", tensions on all levels loose their juice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Ken Wilber's Integral Naked Is Now Podcasting!
This used to be $10/month. Now it's free: NHNE News List Current Members: 1345 Subscribe/unsubscribe/archive info at the bottom of this message. KEN WILBER'S INTEGRAL NAKED IS NOW PODCASTING! http://www.integralnaked.org/faq-podcast.shtml What¹s up with this? We want to make our dialogues and music content available to you in the simplest way possible. Podcasting IN sends our exclusive presentations directly to your computer or iPod and other MP3 players! It¹s quick and easy to set up. Want to check it out? All you need is the free iTunes program and you¹re ready to go. Click here to download iTunes: http://www.apple.com/podcasting/ New to Podcasting? A podcast is an MP3 audio file that can be automatically downloaded to your personal computer and in turn transferred to an iPod or other MP3 player. In order to do this, iTunes "adds" a podcast. iTunes checks the site regularly and starts a download whenever it finds a new MP3 file. And this is cool because Podcasting allows internet surfers to choose the exact time when they to want to access their favorite programs. Any Cost? Nope. IT¹S ALL FREE! How do I get started? First, you will need to download the iTunes program (it's FREE). After you complete the installation follow these instructions: ADD & UPDATE the IN PODCAST 1. At the top of the iTunes console, click the Advanced tab 2. Select ³Subscribe to Podcast,² and enter the Integral Naked Podcast URL: http://feeds.feedburner.com/Inpodcast 3. On the left hand window of the console select the Podcast tab. On the main screen find IntegralNaked.org Podcast. 4. You can receive updates to this Podcast in two ways: 1. Click the Update button at the top right corner of the console. 2. Program iTunes to automatically update it for you. 1. Go to the Edit tab on the console and select preferences. Find the Podcast and Advanced tabs to choose when to receive updates That¹s it! Remember our Podcast URL is: http://feeds.feedburner.com/INpodcast Enjoy and spread the word! KEN WILBER-RELATED NHNE NEWS LIST ARTICLES: WILBER, INTEGRAL INSTITUTE SEMINARS & NEAR-INSTANT SATORI (2/8/2005): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/8829 SPRING 2005 INTEGRAL INSTITUTE / KEN WILBER SEMINARS (12/5/2004): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/8448 JOE FIRMAGE ON "PEAK OIL", "THE SINGULARITY" & KEN WILBER (11/2/2004): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/8199 KEN WILBER & INTEGRAL INSTITUTE'S FALL 2004 SEMINAR SERIES (5/19/2004): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/7229 WILBER ON BELIEFNET: 'WHAT DO I MEAN BY "INTEGRAL?"' (3/8/2004): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/6863 THE WORLD OF KEN WILBER (& HIS HEALTH) (1/12/2004): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/6582 COHEN INTERVIEWS WILBER, MURPHY, BECK (1/9/2004): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/6570 INTEGRAL LEADERSHIP SEMINAR WITH KEN WILBER (12/6/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/6374 INTEGRAL NAKED: 'EVOLUTIONARY SPIRITUALITY' (10/20/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/6127 WHO IS KEN WILBER & WHAT IS THE MEANING OF "INTEGRAL"? (9/5/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/5901 INTEGRAL INSTITUTE (9/5/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/5900 INTEGRAL NAKED: THE NATURE OF HUMAN CHANGE IN THE REAL WORLD (9/2/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/5883 JOIN INTEGRAL NAKED, EXPAND YOUR MIND, HELP NHNE (8/12/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/5787 'WHAT IS ENLIGHTENMENT?' MAGAZINE (6/26/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/5593 INTEGRAL NAKED: AN INFORMAL GATHERING WORLD'S MOST INFLUENTIAL SEEKERS (6/8/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/5497 INTEGRAL NAKED: ITP, GEORGE LEONARD, MICHAEL MURPHY & KEN WILBER (6/30/2003): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/5622 KEN WILBER ON 911 (12/30/2001): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/2443 KEN WILBER, SPEAKING OF EVERYTHING (11/30/2001): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/2353 NHNE News List: To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To review current posts: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/messages Published by David Sunfellow NewHeavenNewEarth (NHNE) eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NHNE Website: http://www.nhne.com/ Phone: (928) 282-6120 Fax: (815) 642-0117 Appreciate what we are doing? You can say so with a tax-deductible donation: http://www.nhne.com/main/donations.html P.O. Box 2242 Sedona, AZ 86339 Yahoo! Groups Links -- End of Forwarded Message To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*>
[FairfieldLife] Fw: KDL Rinpoche - Important Green Mountain Dharma Festival Update
Dear Dharma friends,The Dharma Festival with KDL Rinpoche is just 9 days away and we want to make sure we are prepared for those who will be coming. It would help us greatly if we know in advance if you are coming and if you need housing. We want to make sure the space for teachings is big enough and that we have enough community housing. If you are coming please let us know your plans.For those coming for the complete retreat we have extended the early registration discount of $320 until August 18. After that it will be $350. If you want to do early registration please make your check out to DDCV and send to:DDCVPO Box 252Bristol, VT 05443These teachings will be very special this year, and most have not been given before.On August 20-21 the Dharma Festival will begin with Rinpoche and his Monks and Nuns performing a two day healing Chod. Rinpoche is famous for his Healing Chod. This Healing Chod is beneficial for all, Buddhists and non Buddhists. There are many physical, mental and spiritual benefits to receiving the Healing Chod and some people have received miraculous healing's. On Monday, August 22, Rinpoche will give the pewang and teach on his Pure Vision Chod practice. This will be the first time Rinpoche has given detailed teachings on his concise pure vision Chod practice entitled The Spontaneous Vajra Song. Rinpoche will give teachings on the stages of visualization for this practice and his monks and nuns will help teach practitioners how to use the bell, drum and thighbone trumpet. Rinpoche will give the pewang for this practice which will authorize practitioners to do this practice. If you have ever wanted to do Rinpoches Chod practice this is your opportunity. The text for this practice has been translated and will be available.On Tuesday, August 23, Rinpoche will give the pewang and teachings on a Pure Vision White Tara practice he received while in San Diego on last years tour. This practice is called "The Brief and Essentialized Practice of the Vital Energy of White Tara, Mother of Life." This is a profound and beautiful White Tara practice and has only been given rarely since Rinpoche received this Pure Vision.On August 24-25, Rinpoche will give his Dechen Karmo Yeshe Tsogyal empowerment and teachings, which is one of the most important practices in Rinpoches treasure cycle. Of the Three Roots this is his main Dakini practice and this is the first time outside of his Monastery in India that this has been given.On August 26-28, Rinpoche will give the Nyingtig Yabshi Pewang, which gives permission to entire into the Nyingtig Yabshi cycle of practices. Rinpoche will be teaching on a text from the Lama Yangtig, entitled "Stainless Space". This text is extremely important for anyone who wishes to practice Dzogchen. Rinpoche has not taught on this before. Of this text, Longchenpa writes, "The trechod appendix, "Stainless Space", causes one to be free of hope and fear without anything to be done." This text contains essence teachings on View, Meditation, and Conduct. As Longchenpa writes, it gives the "essential points of the practice of great original purity, the nature of things." Contained within this text our essential teachings on the practice of Trechod, Dream Yoga, and Chulen. Needless to say, to have Rinpoches commentary on this practice will be the greatest of blessings. The Stainless Space text, which was previously untranslated, will also be available at these teachings.So we hope those who have come to the previous Green Mountain Dharma Festivals as well as other teachings we have had before with Rinpoche in VT will be able to come. The location for the Dharma Festival will be 2 Elm St. in Bristol, VT. We have had many requests for Community Housing so if you need this type of housing please let us know ASAP. Inexpensive camping with bathroom and shower facilities is also available. The Retreat Housing Link on our home page www.ddcv.com will take you to other housing options close to the teachings.For further information on the Dharma Festival schedule go to www.ddcv.comIf you have questions or want to register you can contact us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or call 802-453-3431We look forward to seeing everyone in Vermont.Many blessings to all,Drikung Dzogchen Community Vermont To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
Tom asks for details about this experience Judy writes: I'd characterize it generally as a feeling of resistance. It can manifest in many different ways, from "butterflies in the stomach" to feeling drowsy to feeling hungry to feeling a lack of physical energy, among other things, and overall a feeling of resistance to just "being with" those discomforts, the sense that they constitute interference that has to be removed. Another example would be severe physical pain and an accompanying sense of panic if there isn't some way to quickly mitigate it. Another way to put it is that what MMY calls the mind's tendency to go for "more and more" is still in operation: one continues compulsively to seek to increase pleasure and minimize pain, psychic or physical (and the two are reciprocal). The physiology is not supporting the experience of "All," which would terminate the compulsion (as opposed to just the inclination) to seek "more and more." Tom T responds: Judy thanks for a genuine response. I have no need to tell you to do anything other than to just pay attention to these contractions and see what happens in the near future. Thanks for being willing to be open and genuine here. Most of the time, some here use our openness as an excuse for bashing. I find your response highly informative and recognize that this has no need to change but your genuineness may lead you to some discoveries. Thanks again Tom. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
This below was well stated and goes to the heart of your relationship. You,each of you lack something the other has too much of. Barry, you throw the baby out with the bathwater and seem to be intuitive, but foresake much of conventional logic. So lets call you heart. Judy, you are a rationalist to the extreme, and throw the bathwater out with the baby. We'll call you intellect But together you would be pretty whole. I think you two are like two characters in a Shakespearian drama. So only a love hate relationship would be possible, just as only a love hate relationship is possible between the heart and mind. And if you merely love to hate, it's still a love hate relationship. - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:22 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]...> wrote:> > Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each> other! ;-)Actually, I do kinda admire Judy's intellect. She's often smart and incisive and well-stated. It's justthat at the same time, based on ten years of obser-vation, I think that she'd be a much happier personif she used that intellect a little less and justfelt things a little more.ing the other has to To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] MSNBC.com Article: Man dies after 50 hours of computer games
Man dies after 50 hours of computer games A South Korean man who played computer games for 50 hours almost non-stop died of heart failure minutes after finishing his mammoth session in an Internet cafe, authorities said on Tuesday. http://g.msn.com/0MN2ET7/2?http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/579&&CM=EmailThis&CE=1 _ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tom asks for details about this experience > > Judy writes: > I'd characterize it generally as a feeling of > resistance. It can manifest in many different > ways, from "butterflies in the stomach" to > feeling drowsy to feeling hungry to feeling a > lack of physical energy, among other things, and > overall a feeling of resistance to just "being > with" those discomforts, the sense that they > constitute interference that has to be removed. > Another example would be severe physical pain > and an accompanying sense of panic if there isn't > some way to quickly mitigate it. > > Another way to put it is that what MMY calls > the mind's tendency to go for "more and more" > is still in operation: one continues > compulsively to seek to increase pleasure and > minimize pain, psychic or physical (and the > two are reciprocal). The physiology is not > supporting the experience of "All," which > would terminate the compulsion (as opposed > to just the inclination) to seek "more and > more." > > Tom T responds: > Judy thanks for a genuine response. I have no need to tell you to do > anything other than to just pay attention to these contractions and > see what happens in the near future. Thanks for being willing to be > open and genuine here. Most of the time, some here use our openness > as an excuse for bashing. I find your response highly informative > and recognize that this has no need to change but your genuineness > may lead you to some discoveries. Thanks again Tom. I appreciate the kind words and positive thoughts, Tom. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] American karma
I've read some of the comments to my post stating that bad karma is going to hit USA badly. And inevitable the Bhagavad Gita and the WW2 is dragged into the discussion. My comment is based on what Vimalananda said in conversations with Robert Svoboda in his excellent book "Aghora III - the law of karma." He here states that according to his information the Divine Blessing that America was given by God has come to an end, just like everything that is begun has an end. This happenened in the mid eightghties, around the time Maharishi left USA for never to return, BTW. We know how glorious american energy can fill the world; we saw that with for example the Marshall-plan. Such a heartfelt solidarity ! But unfortunately we also know the destructive and arrogant forces of american energies only too well with all the warmaking it has beeen doing since WW2. Eventually it seems that their luck ran out, and even God pulled out of that country. Now they have to reap the conscequenses of what they have sown. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
