[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Jun 22, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Hugo wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I should have added ayurveda to my list of things the
> > > > TMO should be testing (or rather independent people
> > > > should be testing). The thing that gets me riled the
> > > > most is the cancer curing claims made for amrit kalash.
> > > > There haven't, as far as I know, been any tests done
> > > > on humans with this stuff and yet it is routinely
> > > > prescribed in large doses to people with terminal
> > > > cancer.
> > > 
> > > Hugo, that's because the amrit is so awful, after you take it,
> > > the cancer doesn't seem quite so bad.
> > > 
> > > See? There is method to their madness after all.
> > > 
> > > Sal
> > > Took one look, one taste, and said, "Forget it."
> > 
> > 
> > You could be onto something here, I offered some to
> > my dog once and she recoiled in disgust. 
> > 
> > I thought that was funny coming from an animal who'd
> > pick the lumpy bits out of cold vomit off the pavement,
> > if I let her that is.
> >
> 
> Perhaps your dog is very stupid?

Hey Lawson, are you actually capable of seeing
something which *might* be a criticism and NOT
responding? I just mentioned it because it was
*funny* that she will eat anything except MA4.


> 
> My experience with cats is that they seem to like the stuff, or at
> least aren't dismayed by it.


Do you really think the relative intelligence
of dog/cat breeds might relate to their acceptance
of human subjective taste pleasures in herbal 
medicines? 

Or maybe stupid people choose stupid pets.

There's just got to be an Ignobel prize in here 
somewhere.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" 
 
> > > > wrote:
> > 
> > > > 
> > > > In any case, two TMO-related organizations *did*
> > > > sue Andrew Skolnick for that disgraceful muck-
> > > > raking article he wrote for JAMA, and that certainly
> > > > must have been with blessings from the top.
> > > 
> > > Sued successfully?
> > > 
> > > The only story by Skolnick I can find in JAMA is
> > > the one about Chopra and co lying about having
> > > financial intertsts in ayurveda. This one in fact:
> > > 
> > > http://www.skeptictank.org/gs/sci603.htm
> > > 
> > > Doesn't sound like muckraking to me. Maybe he has 
> > > expectations borne of experience about how researchers
> > > should conduct themselves. Perhaps this is a case of 
> > > your opinion clouding judgement? Happens a lot round
> > > here I've noticed. I've commented myself that the TMO
> > > often seems to use science as a marketing tool and isn't 
> > > really interested in whether the claims it makes are 
> > > true or not, and that is something I worked out over 
> > > many years, not an unreasoned rant. Quantum physics and 
> > > jyotish anyone? 
> > > 
> > > I would like to know what happened in court with 
> > > Skolnick though.
> > > 
> > 
> > Call off the search, I've found it. Case dismissed and,
> > I have to say, quite rightly so.
> > 
> > I should have added ayurveda to my list of things the
> > TMO should be testing (or rather independent people 
> > should be testing). The thing that gets me riled the 
> > most is the cancer curing claims made for amrit kalash.
> > There haven't, as far as I know, been any tests done 
> > on humans with this stuff and yet it is routinely
> > prescribed in large doses to people with terminal
> > cancer. I have known two people who died after being
> > reommended the wonder gloop, both of whom had a long
> > slow miserable death. What justification is there for
> > this? A study showing cancer cells are destroyed in
> > a petri dish, what they don't mention is that bodies
> > behave somewhat differently and one result cannot be
> > infered from the other. Didn't stop the TMO though 
> > did it? Shame it isn't illegal to refuse medical help
> > in favour of untested folk medicine. The fact that it's
> > time-tested wisdom of the vedas cuts no ice with me,
> > it works or it doesn't.
> > 
> > Judy, a serious question: Given that you're into 
> > fighting for truth and justice and all that shouldn't
> > you be on Skolnicks side in this? Far from muckraking
> > he was making some serious points about medical 
> > quackery that should be exposed. How much of ayurvedic
> > medicine has actually been double-blind tested and 
> > independently at that?
> >
> 
> Gee why don't you go to pubmed and search?

Erm, because I was asking you?

> 
> btw, for what it is worth:
> 
> http://www.mapi.com/en/research/index-chemotoxicity.html

We should bring this to Judys attention, she thinks
Skolnic killed of MAV research. Not that any of this is 
independent of course but you've got to start somewhere.


 
> Lawson
>

[FairfieldLife] Comedian George Carlin dies at 71

[Robert]

Comedian George Carlin dies at 71
Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:32am BST
 

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LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Comedian George Carlin, a counter-culture hero famed 
for his routines about drugs and dirty words, died of heart failure at a Los 
Angeles-area hospital on Sunday, a spokesman said. He was 71.
Carlin, who had a history of heart and drug-dependency problems, died at Saint 
John's Health Center in Santa Monica about 6 p.m. PDT (2 a.m. British time) 
after being admitted earlier in the afternoon for chest pains, spokesman Jeff 
Abraham told Reuters.
Known for his edgy, provocative material, Carlin achieved status as an 
anti-Establishment icon in the 1970s with stand-up bits full of drug references 
and a routine called "Seven Words You Can Never Say On Television." A 
regulatory battle over a radio broadcast of the routine ultimately reached the 
U.S. Supreme Court.
In the 1978 case, Federal Communications Commission vs. Pacifica Foundation, 
the top U.S. court ruled that the words cited in Carlin's routine were 
indecent, and that the government's broadcast regulator could ban them from 
being aired at times when children might be listening.
Carlin's comedic sensibility often came back to a central theme: humanity is 
doomed.
"I don't have any beliefs or allegiances. I don't believe in this country, I 
don't believe in religion, or a god, and I don't believe in all these man-made 
institutional ideas," he told Reuters in a 2001 interview.
Carlin, who wrote several books and performed in many television comedy 
specials, is survived by his wife Sally Wade, and daughter Kelly Carlin McCall.


  

[FairfieldLife] 'The Second American Anti-Christ=McCain'

[Robert]

Using Christ's name?
To justify a murderous war for oil?
Robbing the poor for the whims of the rich?
Friendly with our enemy's for their oil?
Permanant campaign?
Johnny's wife keeps the moola seperate, sucking optional
Viagra laden war keep marching on, straighten up soldier...
Flipping and flopping all over the deck.
Poor Johnny shot down, while bombing the innocents...
Father, Grandfather, both war-mongers.
Killing for Christ.
First there was Bush the Younger,
Now John the Elder.
Sad!
 
R.Gimbel  Madison, Wisconsin.
 
 


  

[FairfieldLife] 'John McCain= The Second American Anti-Christ?'

[Robert]

Yes, he uses Christ's name to bomb innocent woman and child.
He wants to rob the poor and give to the rich.
He does anything to win.
His wifey keep money seperate but sucks gladly.
His viagra laden dip stick, is quick to the trick.
He flips as she flops.
Feeling sorry for poor piloting over Viet Nam.
Father, Grandfather, both war-mongers.
Killing for Christ.
I don't feel sorry for John for getting shot down over Viet Nam,
Because he was bombing innocent men, woman and children.
John McCain is not a hero.
He's pumped on Viagra, like Adoph loved his Meth, 
And Georgie loves his Coke.
Good Grief!  to Laura, 
What a strong woman to be borned into that family!
 
R.Gimbel  Madison, Wisconsin.
 
R.G.   seattle, wa


  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> "John M. Knapp, LMSW"  wrote:
> I've written tens of thousands of words in the last 13 years on these 
> > subjects. I know there are contradictions in what I've written.
> > 
> > I know I've changed my character, opinions, and actions greatly 
> since I first started 
> > publishing in anger on the old AMT or trancenet.net.
> > 
> > I can't change the past. I *can* apologize and make amends as best 
> I'm able. 
> > 
> > And if you point out a contradiction or hurtful action, I'd make it 
> my responsibility to 
> > apologize and make amends. In the present.
> 
> I congratulate someone who is big enough to own up to their past words 
> and actions, and who points out that over a period of 13 years people 
> change.  Their attitude changes.  Their outlook changes.  In my mind 
> these statement indicate a level of maturity, and accountability we 
> don't often see on this site.
>

So, ask John if he still stands behind promoting/publicizing this particular
bit of "scientific" research?

http://trancenet.net/research/index.shtml

"The Report of Germany's Institute for Youth and Society on TM"



Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > I'm not on a spiritual path, which is a meaningless phrase. You're
> > pretending to be all nicey-nice but I don't believe a word of it. 
> > 
> 
> In cognitive therapy attributing thoughts, feelings, and motives to others is 
> called "mind 
> reading." It's considered a "cognitive distortion." It's thought to lead to 
> pain and 
> dysfunction for a lot of people.
> 

So, do you believe that you have been able to  evaluate MMY's motives over teh 
years?

L

[FairfieldLife] Re: Amrit Kalash and Chemo/Radiation Therapy

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 22, 2008, at 5:52 PM, sparaig wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >>
> >> Ruth passed this on to me offlist; it may be of interest to those
> >> questioning the wisdom of taking free radical scavenging herbs like
> >> Amrit Kalash, etc. concurrently with chemotherapy or radiation
> >> therapy. This will make immediate sense to anyone with a background  
> >> in
> >> Medicine and/or biochemistry:
> >>
> >>> Ruth, perhaps if your listening you could chime in on this one.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://jdc.jefferson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=jmbcim
> >>
> >> Not a consensus at this point, but I used to avoid having patients
> >> take massive doses of vitamin C during chemo or radiation.
> >>
> >
> >
> > "Used to avoid..."
> >
> > Now, the other issue is "mega-doses of VItamin C," since the term  
> > "mega-
> > dose" usually refers to taking pure vitamin C rather than eating an  
> > orange
> > or three. In the Case of MAK Nectar, amlaka is high in C, but some
> > researchers are claiming that this is due to polyphenols (tannins),  
> > and not
> > Vitamin C itself. Regardless, MAK nectar and tablets are extremely  
> > complex
> > preparations containing many dozens of herbs and spices and fruits,  
> > so to
> > base a conclusion about possible ill-effects of MAK on research on a  
> > pure
> > substance is likely the wrong way to go.
> >
> > Instead, you'd want to look at _in vitro_ studies on humans, such as:
> >
> > http://www.mapi.com/en/research/chemotoxicity1.html
> >
> > Antioxidant Adjuvant Therapy Using Natural Herbal Mixtures [MAK-4  
> > and MAK-5]
> > During Intensive Chemotherapy: Reduction in Toxicity. A Prospective  
> > Study of
> > 62 Patients
> >
> > http://www.mapi.com/en/research/chemotoxicity4.html
> >
> > Maharishi Amrit Kalash [MAK-4 and MAK-5] Reduces Chemotherapy  
> > Toxicity in
> > Breast Cancer Patients
> 
> 
> In terms of a biochemical mechanism Lawson, it has really nothing to  
> do with whether or not Amrit Kalash has vitamin C but whether or not  
> it's free radical scavenging potentials interfere with a free radical  
> damaging agent or mechanism as used in radiation and chemo- therapy.
> 

Yes, but if you'll note, the article YOU furnished makes a distinction between
one kind of free radical scavanger and the next, so to blanket condemn all
because they might have 15,000 units of Vitamin C, is silly. Most do not.
I doubt if MAK ambrosia or nectar do, for example.


> Do you have more than an abstract on these studies (a PDF)? As per  
> usual they seem to have the usual bias with TM research and thus  
> should be  considered highly dubious.
>

I don't have conference proceedings, sorry.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] 'Intent and Sychronicity....

[Robert]

After intending and surrendering, I take action by following the opportunities 
that are presented to me. I am in the flow where great mystery and miracles 
abide, fulfilling my desires, and doing what I came here to do. I synchronize.

 We've found that the recipe for successful creativity calls upon us to 
make use of three ingredients: Intent, Feeling, and Action. The first 
ingredient, Intent, is applied to define a desired outcome or goal. Our 
experience has taught us that when we make an intention, it's wise to be exact 
about what we desire to manifest, but to leave the specifics undefined when it 
comes to how or when our intentions will come to us. By following this 
guideline and invoking the highest good, we allow the Universe to utilize any 
one of an infinite variety of ways to bring our intention into manifestation. 
Intenders who cling to a single or specific route in seeking to create their 
abundance limit the magical workings of the Universe considerably.
 The second ingredient, Feeling, comes into the picture in order to provide 
the energy needed to make our intention develop from a thought into an etheric 
reality that is poised and ready to blossom into the world around us. In 
observing many of our mighty manifesters over the years, we've come to 
understand that those who are able to conjure up the feeling they'll be 
experiencing after their goal has been reached (even though it may not have 
actually manifested in physical reality yet), achieve vastly better results 
than those who are not in touch with the power of their feelings. Said another 
way, if a person can maintain the feeling of gratitude in advance of the actual 
manifestation of their intentions, they will increase their rate of success 
immensely.
 As our intentions begin to precipitate down from the invisible into 
physical manifestation, we need to be ready to apply the third ingredient: 
Action. Before taking action, however, there has to be a waiting period or 
pause which typically lasts a few days (although the amount of time may vary 
depending upon the proficiency of the manifester and whether the highest good 
is being served or not). This is when we let go of all attachments and concerns 
about our creative endeavors and retreat into a state of divine nonchalance. 
Taking this conscious pause allows the Universe to work at its own pace in 
arranging things. Then, after the waiting period is over and our intention is 
ready to come forth, we'll notice that a series of synchronistic "coincidences" 
begins to appear in our life. We will have stepped into a magical flow that is 
characterized by a sequence of events occuring around us that is moving us 
toward our desired outcome.  When this
 flow of seemingly magical "coincidences" reveals itself, it's up to us to take 
the appropriate action which each synchronistic event calls for until our final 
goal is  reached. 
 If, for instance, we've intended to meet our soulmate, and an attractive 
new person enters our life, then we would pursue that opportunity to find out 
if this is the love of our life, or if it is simply a contact with someone who 
has something else to offer us as we continue moving toward our desired 
relationship.
 If we think we've met a potential soulmate, then we would take action to 
get to know this person better so we can see where the relationship leads. They 
may be the one who we've been longing for, or perhaps they may be someone who 
will introduce us to our soulmate. In either case, as opportunities like this 
present themselves, it's up to us to provide the appropriate action until our 
intention is materialized. The idea is to keep moving forward. Sometimes all 
we'll have to do is hold out our hand or answer the phone, but, most often, our 
goals are realized by following a synchronistic chain of events and 
opportunities, each of which leads us ever closer to "the grand finale" which 
is the manifestation of our original intention.
>From The Intenders Handbook
 
 If you're choosing to walk the path of empowerment, you'll need to get 
good at making your intentions, letting them go, and then taking action when 
opportunities present themselves.  Taking action is where synchronicity comes 
in. If it's for your highest good, usually within a few days after you've 
surrendered your intentions up to the Universe, a series of almost surprising 
events will reveal themselves to you, and it is for you to move forward from 
one to the next until you reach your final goal. Suddenly, you'll notice that 
you're in a serendipitous flow where all good things are coming to you and that 
everything you need is magically there for you when you need it. From then on, 
all you have to do is stay alert to that which is in front of you until, one 
day, when Great Mystery opens her arms wide in the form of a feeling you've 
rarely experienced and probably forgotten about. Your innocence will return, 
and life - the life yo

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[lurkernomore20002000]

"John M. Knapp, LMSW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've written tens of thousands of words in the last 13 years on these 
> subjects. I know there are contradictions in what I've written.
> 
> I know I've changed my character, opinions, and actions greatly 
since I first started 
> publishing in anger on the old AMT or trancenet.net.
> 
> I can't change the past. I *can* apologize and make amends as best 
I'm able. 
> 
> And if you point out a contradiction or hurtful action, I'd make it 
my responsibility to 
> apologize and make amends. In the present.

I congratulate someone who is big enough to own up to their past words 
and actions, and who points out that over a period of 13 years people 
change.  Their attitude changes.  Their outlook changes.  In my mind 
these statement indicate a level of maturity, and accountability we 
don't often see on this site.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind Reading (: Trancenet Alert!)

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
>  wrote:
> >
> > In cognitive therapy attributing thoughts, feelings, and motives to
> > others is called "mind reading." It's considered a "cognitive 
> > distortion." It's thought to lead to pain and 
> > dysfunction for a lot of people.
> 
> Can you elaborate on that?

Hi, new.morning,

I'll share what I know.

I've written two articles on "cognitive distortions" and one on cognitive 
therapy itself:

http://knappfamilycounseling.com/culttales.html
http://knappfamilycounseling.com/tales.html
http://knappfamilycounseling.com/cognitive.html

There are some links in the last to Aaron T. Beck's Institute, the guy who 
founded 
cognitive therapy. You can learn acres more there.

> 
> Its a key point that appears to me to be a root of the negative
> harping that occurs here. In life also, but I find an unusually high
> ratio here. 
> 
> And are you had formal training in or involved with cognitive therapy
> professionally?  

Yes, I'm no expert, but I use cognitive therapy every day in my practice. It's 
particularly 
good for depression and anxiety. 

A further refinement, dialectical behavioral therapy, is very good for 
personality disorders, 
such as borderline personality. Many people who suffer from cult abuse are 
diagnosed 
with borderline or bipolarity. I have my doubts, since I've seen many recover 
from their 
"symptoms." Borderlines and bipolars don't typically recover, although they can 
learn to 
accommodate.

Cognitive therapy is only one tool in my bag of tricks, but it gives quick 
relief for many 
challenges.

I was trained in cognitive therapy in my masters work, have attended 
professional 
trainings, and done quite a bit of reading on it.


> 
> Any thoughts on why those connected to TM and TMO past or present
> still have these tendencies -- and perhaps more so than average
> relative to the larger population?

I don't know for a fact that deeply involved TMers -- or other people in cultic 
relationships -- display "cognitive distortions" such as mind reading more than 
the 
general population, but I certainly suspect this is the case.

The belief systems in high-demand, high-intensity groups like TM 
institutionalize 
cognitive distortions, in my opinion and personal experience: Black/white us 
vs. them 
thinking, all-or-nothing thinking, overgeneralization, jumping to conclusions, 
emotional 
reasoning, etc.

I have no idea if the Maharishi consciously included these ways of thinking in 
the structure 
he created. But I can see how these distorted ways of thinking would function 
to ensure 
loyalty, control, dependency.

> 
> Education doesn't appear to diminish it -- surprisingly. 

Education and intelligence are somewhat overrated in my opinion.

I think "emotional intelligence," independence/self-reliance, perseverance, and 
social 
skills are more predictive of health, happiness, and success in life.

> 
> I wonder if the feeling of knowingness brings greater gullibility and
> confidence that one actually cann accurately thoughts, feelings, and
> motives of people that they have never met, have no serious
> information on background etc. All from some posts. 

I think you are on to something here.

I'd say that the indoctrinated feelings of superiority to nonmembers is an 
important factor, 
too.

I wrote an article on my own struggle with "secondary narcissism" at 
http://knappfamilycounseling.com/2ndnardissism.html , if you're interested. A 
number of 
TMers and others have written to say they identify with my personal weakness in 
this area.

> 
> Greater than average gullibility may be a common characteristic of
> long termers in the TMO. I wonder if that characteristic -- if it is
> actually greater than "normal", contributes to that SIMS assuredness
> and even arrogance that one actually knows another's thoughts,
> feelings, and motives without knowing the person well (and even then
> its quite iffy).   
> 
> > Or do you find yourself becoming angry, even unhappy?
> 
> When some are told their Kreskin like abilities to remotely read the
> minds of strangers is corrected  by the "subject" -- anger does seem
> to arise -- name calling and even more mind reading -- imputing more
> and deeper motives or internal ills to the person.
>

Yes, it seems to be an escalating spiral, doesn't it?

Even articulate people seem to descend into self-righteous apoplexy.

When you challenge a people's core beliefs, many will engage in irrational 
defensiveness. 
Here I'm speaking of people in general. It's a very human thing to do.

I know I've done it when I've felt attacked.

J.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[curtisdeltablues]

> Well, it must have been a sacrifice to leave the silence of the
> Himalayas to end up being insulted by people like you.

Yeah, Maharishi was a big fan of "feedback" from his teachers.  In
fact he was quite an avid contributor to FFL before his death.  Always
one to read the dissenting opinion that Maharishi...

So let me get this straight.  My grave insult was to question that
Maharishi preferred shitting outside (which I did in North India
myself and saw my breath as I did so, and I was way South of the
mountains in Delhi) to dropping a duce in a golden toilet INSIDE.

And the insult is to question that his life was a sacrifice. becoming
a rock star jet-setting guru who could hang out with anyone from any
field for his 15 minutes of fame that he glommed off of the Beatles? 
That he would have preferred to sit on a rock and dig how cosmic he
was without the legions of blond chicks who worshiped him as a God?

You've got your insult meter set setting on "Victorian Woman."   You
might want to loosen that up a tad. 



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > > "It was a sacrifice of life to leave the Himalayas. But
> necessary to 
> > > > bring about this new, golden age for mankind."
> > > > 
> > > > - Maharishi, Boppard, Germany, 1982
> > > 
> > > Funny how religious dudes speak about their sacrifices while
amassing
> > > huge wealth.  It is part of their "story."   And we are supposed to
> > > believe that he preferred living without indoor plumbing to the
golden
> > > throne?  Or that he, unlike any of the rest of us, didn't gain more
> > > meaning in his life by going out, meeting people and laying his
rap on
> > > them.  He was so fulfilled sitting on his butt in the mountains that
> > > he didn't gain more joy for his life by becoming a teacher?  Or that
> > > his nature completely changed after 13 years of running around for
> > > Guru Dev, and he would be perfectly happy sitting on a rock in the
> > > mountains?  
> > > 
> > > He loved creating his own myths didn't he?
> > > 
> > > Here is my take:  The guy was always a very active guy.  He fell
into
> > > a 2 year depression funk after his life partner died, and after
> > > feeling better went back to being a super active guy building
his own
> > > empire and delighting in micromanaging every detail.  He had as much
> > > chance of sitting on his butt in the mountains as The Donald. 
> > >
> 
> Well, it must have been a sacrifice to leave the silence of the
> Himalayas to end up being insulted by people like you.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You're making some assumptions there, geezer. In fact, I do not
> practice TM. 
> 
Where do I sign up?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

More "spiritual" name calling, feste37.

I am very content in my spiritual life and other aspects of my life.

Are you content in yours? 

I gotta tell you, your posts come across as angry, unhappy, fearful.

Naturally, I have as much right as anyone to post here.

If you don't like what I write, there's no need to read my posts.

Much less respond to them.

Why do you continue to do so?

J.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm not answering your questions because I am not going to play your
> silly games. The idea of you being a part of the TM movement again is
> a joke. You are a chronic malcontent. No one would want you. Go away. 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
>  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Please stop trying to "therapize" me. I am immune to it. 
> > > 
> > > Your claim to want to reform the TM movement is ridiculous. You are
> > > not in the TM movement, so how can you reform it? Why should anyone
> > > take any notice of you? You chose to leave, so stick to your decision.
> > > In any case, I can't imagine that anyone would ever trust you again. 
> > >
> > 
> > No one's trying to "therapize" you.
> > 
> > I'm glad you are immune to it -- whatever that is.
> > 
> > I do note, however, you chose not to answer any of my questions.
> Some might take that as 
> > a position of weakness. 
> > 
> > I do not have to be part of the TM Movement to want to reform it. In
> some regards, I will 
> > always be a TM teacher. It was part of me for a very long time. It
> still is.
> > 
> > Many former Catholics are active in reform organizations. Many
> expatriates are eager to 
> > reform the policies of the US -- particularly the current ones. 
> > 
> > This doesn't in any way seem like a paradox to me.
> > 
> > "Leaving" the TM Movement is not a black/white thing, either. I
> would like to be proud of 
> > the Movement again. If it were to become accountable as a spiritual
> organization in the 
> > ways I outlined, I could imagine wanting to be associated with it again.
> > 
> > Some people *don't* trust me. That much is evident. 
> > 
> > But many do! I make my living and follow my career, which is based
> on trust.
> > 
> > It appears difficult for you to imagine people trust me. 
> > 
> > What does it feel like to know so many disagree with your position?
> > 
> > J.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Fairy dust and magic erasures...

[BillyG.]

In Surat Shabd Yog the Sat Guru sprinkles fairy dust on the magic
(Simran) words at the time of initiation, you are now 'very' special
and among the 'inner' circle, had it not been for this beneficence
you'd be out of luck amigo. Also, he visualizes in the Akashic record
and with his magic erasure deletes all of your Sanchit (past) karma to
boot, isn't that Cool?

Where do you sign up, such a deal, all for a trifling too! And I
thought Jesus Christ had a corner on that market, looks like I was
wrong! Hey...he's a Sat-Guru, come on! Of course you're indebted to
him for the rest of your life, and his line of 'Gurus' as well, Guru
Pitka anyone?

[FairfieldLife] Wizard Lamp / Jeff Cook Effect...

[Jeffrey N Cook]

Hi, all.
 
I know I mentioned earlier than I wasn't going to send updates of my 
work to this group, but I thought that would be to your advantage.  
But then I found out some appreciated the updated, rather than having 
to join a separate Newsletter.  So I suppose I will continue.  Again, 
if you wish I not send any udates to this group, just send me an 
email and I will cease and desist. :)
 
I have designed a device in order to demonstrate a clear cut version 
of a unique coil configuration that levitates a magnet in a pinned 
fashion.  This has many implications indirectly for new energy / anti-
gravity.  I won't go into those now, but they really do.
 
They are now on sale at www.Nixwave.com for $25.99 / each for 
experimenters and enthusiasts within the continental U.S.
 
Feel free to check it out at your convenience.
 
Deepest regards,
 
Jeff Cook

[FairfieldLife] In Iowa, Life’s Possessions Become Piles of Debris

[bob_brigante]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/us/23cleanup.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[feste37]

You're making some assumptions there, geezer. In fact, I do not
practice TM. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > I'm not answering your questions because I am not going to play your
> > silly games. The idea of you being a part of the TM movement again is
> > a joke. You are a chronic malcontent. No one would want you. Go away. 
> > 
> 
>  Clearly the writer here is saturated in the fullness of being from
many years experience of 
> dipping the cloth.
> 
>  Where do I sign up?
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm not answering your questions because I am not going to play your
> silly games. The idea of you being a part of the TM movement again is
> a joke. You are a chronic malcontent. No one would want you. Go away. 
> 

 Clearly the writer here is saturated in the fullness of being from many years 
experience of 
dipping the cloth.

 Where do I sign up?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Amrit Kalash and Chemo/Radiation Therapy

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ruth passed this on to me offlist; it may be of interest to those
> questioning the wisdom of taking free radical scavenging herbs like
> Amrit Kalash, etc. concurrently with chemotherapy or radiation
> therapy. This will make immediate sense to anyone with a background in
> Medicine and/or biochemistry:
>
> > Ruth, perhaps if your listening you could chime in on this one.
> >
>
>
>
http://jdc.jefferson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=jmbcim

>
> Not a consensus at this point, but I used to avoid having patients
> take massive doses of vitamin C during chemo or radiation.>>


Are you a doctor now Vaj?

However, one should NEVER take Chemo or radiation.

Just go on a fruit diet. Cancer is killed.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[feste37]

I'm not answering your questions because I am not going to play your
silly games. The idea of you being a part of the TM movement again is
a joke. You are a chronic malcontent. No one would want you. Go away. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > Please stop trying to "therapize" me. I am immune to it. 
> > 
> > Your claim to want to reform the TM movement is ridiculous. You are
> > not in the TM movement, so how can you reform it? Why should anyone
> > take any notice of you? You chose to leave, so stick to your decision.
> > In any case, I can't imagine that anyone would ever trust you again. 
> >
> 
> No one's trying to "therapize" you.
> 
> I'm glad you are immune to it -- whatever that is.
> 
> I do note, however, you chose not to answer any of my questions.
Some might take that as 
> a position of weakness. 
> 
> I do not have to be part of the TM Movement to want to reform it. In
some regards, I will 
> always be a TM teacher. It was part of me for a very long time. It
still is.
> 
> Many former Catholics are active in reform organizations. Many
expatriates are eager to 
> reform the policies of the US -- particularly the current ones. 
> 
> This doesn't in any way seem like a paradox to me.
> 
> "Leaving" the TM Movement is not a black/white thing, either. I
would like to be proud of 
> the Movement again. If it were to become accountable as a spiritual
organization in the 
> ways I outlined, I could imagine wanting to be associated with it again.
> 
> Some people *don't* trust me. That much is evident. 
> 
> But many do! I make my living and follow my career, which is based
on trust.
> 
> It appears difficult for you to imagine people trust me. 
> 
> What does it feel like to know so many disagree with your position?
> 
> J.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: The term "Soul" in Sant Mat

[BillyG.]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The term "Soul" in Sant Mat refers to the most subtle of the subtle 
> bodies; (since - obviously, there is no "Soul" as an entity separate 
> from Brahman). In Sant Mat, the Soul (in the Sant Mat definition) is 
> separated from the lower bodies and meets the Radiant Form of the 
> Inner Master in the subtle planes.  Then, it catches ahold of the 
> subtle Sound Current and meets "God" - the Absolute while thus 
> disengaged from the physical.:
> Kirpal Singh ("Naam or Word") says:
> 
> For an experience of the Divine Link it is necessary to contact a 
> Sant Satguru, for he alone can explain the theory and grant a 
> practical demonstration of the Reality within each one of us. The 
> charged words of the Master, his magnetic influence and the life-
> giving rays emanating from him, quickly help in withdrawal of the 
> sensory currents  from the body; for unless the spirit, surging 
> downwards and  rushing headlong into the world through the outgoing 
> faculties, is concentrated at its own seat, behind the two eyebrows, 
> it cannot reflect upon itself. It is a practical experience of self-
> analysis or separating the inner man (Soul or the higher self) from 
> the outer man (lower self consisting of mind and material body). By 
> force of age-old habits we are unfortunately clinging to the outer 
> man and are reveling all the time in the outer world with which we 
> have identified ourselves. There is a regular process of inversion or 
> receding, tapping inside, as Emerson puts it, or conversion into a 
> little child, as Christ called it; and none but an adept on the 
> spiritual path can help in cutting the Gordian Knot and separating 
> the spirit, for a while, from the mind and outgoing faculties. It is, 
> in other words, a supramental experience of the spirit on a super-
> sensual plane and can successfully be imparted by 
> a Master-soul. This experiment cannot be practically performed by 
> reading scriptures and holy books, for they can neither speak nor 
> explain their true import; nor can they be a guide to the spirit as 
> it transcends the physical plane and traverses higher regions, most 
> of which are fraught with subtle dangers and difficulties from which 
> the Master in His luminous form can protect and lead the spirit 
> safely from plane to plane. Those who take up the Way without a 
> competent Master are likely to be deceived by the Negative Power and 
> misled. In Surat Shabd Yoga, the importance of the Master cannot be 
> over-emphasized. He is in fact the central figure, from the beginning 
> to the end, in life and after life, helping visibly and invisibly 
> beyond the ends of the earth, right up to the Judgment Seat of God 
> and even beyond.

Kirpal Singh, the so-called 'Sat-Guru' (true guru) also believes that
there can only be ONE Sat-Guru on the planet at a time!  Oh, and of
course he just happened to be it, oh, and of course their entire line
of Gurus as well!  Nyuk!

This group has evevated the Guru to be even 'greater' than God
himself, basically it's the blind leading the blind in Surat Shabd
Yog, they are a spin off from the Sikh Religion which is a spin off
from Hinduism.  If you want the truth just go to a reputable source
for Hinduism, that is where all of their teachings originate, except
the nonsense ones like:  By *merely* taking initiation the Sat Guru
(Rajinder Singh) immediately eliminates all of your Sanchit Karma,
GMAB! The Guru doesn't eliminate your Sanchita Karma, you do by your
very own Sadhana, on special occasions a Sat Guru like Christ can take
on special karmas for his disciples...

That teaching is so full of holes I don't know where to start!! And
their followers eat all of this upwhere's John Knapp when you need
him?

[FairfieldLife] Vermont Leads America again.

[off_world_beings]

Al Jazeera is blacked out by most of US, except here:
(FoxNews is more Anti-American than AJ)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=012YuXq3vYE

OffWorld 

[FairfieldLife] The term "Soul" in Sant Mat

[yifuxero]

The term "Soul" in Sant Mat refers to the most subtle of the subtle 
bodies; (since - obviously, there is no "Soul" as an entity separate 
from Brahman). In Sant Mat, the Soul (in the Sant Mat definition) is 
separated from the lower bodies and meets the Radiant Form of the 
Inner Master in the subtle planes.  Then, it catches ahold of the 
subtle Sound Current and meets "God" - the Absolute while thus 
disengaged from the physical.:
Kirpal Singh ("Naam or Word") says:

For an experience of the Divine Link it is necessary to contact a 
Sant Satguru, for he alone can explain the theory and grant a 
practical demonstration of the Reality within each one of us. The 
charged words of the Master, his magnetic influence and the life-
giving rays emanating from him, quickly help in withdrawal of the 
sensory currents  from the body; for unless the spirit, surging 
downwards and  rushing headlong into the world through the outgoing 
faculties, is concentrated at its own seat, behind the two eyebrows, 
it cannot reflect upon itself. It is a practical experience of self-
analysis or separating the inner man (Soul or the higher self) from 
the outer man (lower self consisting of mind and material body). By 
force of age-old habits we are unfortunately clinging to the outer 
man and are reveling all the time in the outer world with which we 
have identified ourselves. There is a regular process of inversion or 
receding, tapping inside, as Emerson puts it, or conversion into a 
little child, as Christ called it; and none but an adept on the 
spiritual path can help in cutting the Gordian Knot and separating 
the spirit, for a while, from the mind and outgoing faculties. It is, 
in other words, a supramental experience of the spirit on a super-
sensual plane and can successfully be imparted by 
a Master-soul. This experiment cannot be practically performed by 
reading scriptures and holy books, for they can neither speak nor 
explain their true import; nor can they be a guide to the spirit as 
it transcends the physical plane and traverses higher regions, most 
of which are fraught with subtle dangers and difficulties from which 
the Master in His luminous form can protect and lead the spirit 
safely from plane to plane. Those who take up the Way without a 
competent Master are likely to be deceived by the Negative Power and 
misled. In Surat Shabd Yoga, the importance of the Master cannot be 
over-emphasized. He is in fact the central figure, from the beginning 
to the end, in life and after life, helping visibly and invisibly 
beyond the ends of the earth, right up to the Judgment Seat of God 
and even beyond. 
  

[FairfieldLife] Mind Reading (: Trancenet Alert!)

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In cognitive therapy attributing thoughts, feelings, and motives to
> others is called "mind reading." It's considered a "cognitive 
> distortion." It's thought to lead to pain and 
> dysfunction for a lot of people.

Can you elaborate on that?

Its a key point that appears to me to be a root of the negative
harping that occurs here. In life also, but I find an unusually high
ratio here. 

And are you had formal training in or involved with cognitive therapy
professionally?  

Any thoughts on why those connected to TM and TMO past or present
still have these tendencies -- and perhaps more so than average
relative to the larger population?

Education doesn't appear to diminish it -- surprisingly. 

I wonder if the feeling of knowingness brings greater gullibility and
confidence that one actually cann accurately thoughts, feelings, and
motives of people that they have never met, have no serious
information on background etc. All from some posts. 

Greater than average gullibility may be a common characteristic of
long termers in the TMO. I wonder if that characteristic -- if it is
actually greater than "normal", contributes to that SIMS assuredness
and even arrogance that one actually knows another's thoughts,
feelings, and motives without knowing the person well (and even then
its quite iffy).   

> Or do you find yourself becoming angry, even unhappy?

When some are told their Kreskin like abilities to remotely read the
minds of strangers is corrected  by the "subject" -- anger does seem
to arise -- name calling and even more mind reading -- imputing more
and deeper motives or internal ills to the person. 

[FairfieldLife] Dollars, Oil and the Big Wipe Out

[off_world_beings]

You must watch this and make your opinion on this please:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IQqS_0Er9Io

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[yifuxero]

--The Rajas have nothing to offer mankind but their advice "meditate 
regularly". Among Rajas, there would be a natural incentive not to 
say anything at all that's truly creative; lest they risk being 
labeled a heretic.  Those birtday hats are quite valuable, you 
know!.  Wouldn't want them to get de-Raja'd.

- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
>  wrote:
> . I would like to be proud of 
> > the Movement again. If it were to become accountable as a 
spiritual 
> >organization in the 
> > ways I outlined, I could imagine wanting to be associated with it 
> >again.
> > 
> > J.
> >
> 
> John, this is an open ongoing discussion a lot around here inside & 
> outside the movement too.  Is a lot of watching to see if the 
> standard of integrity becomes something different from what it has 
> been in the past.  
> 
> Is probably crucial to a success for the TMmovement in the 
> marketplace.  They do have a self-made reputation in the world now 
> based in folks' long experience.  A lot of people have left in ways 
& 
> evidently not coming back.  A lot of folks watch & wait to see how 
> the TMmovement may conduct themselves anew.  
> 
> The lack of lustre in dome meditating numbers tells something of 
> this.  It is just the way it is.  People have a sense of what is 
fair 
> and they seem to associate with integrity and often likely dis-
> associate when integrities are lacking.  There is a human nature in 
> that aspect of character.  The TMmovement evidently lost its 
> integrity.  We'll see if they can find it.  
> 
> Though, is wonderfully utopian though what they are up to also in 
> large group meditations.  There is an experience in that.  I wish 
> them well.  To get to where they would like to go, i do suspect 
that 
> they will have to attend to the aspects of what you offer in these 
> critical points.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to bring them to the table here.
> 
> -Doug in FF
> 
> 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "guyfawkes91" 
 
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > This is one of the best posts I've seen on here for a long time.
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Yeah, i agree with Guy, 
> > 
> >  Regardless of who they are, these two posts seem some of the 
more 
> > honest forthright criticism of TM and the TM/FF circumstance of 
> this 
> > month.  Archival in ways: 
> > 
> > 1) taskcentered  wrote:
> > "maybe they can dodge the cult label.
> > Be Transparent 
> > •   discuss policies, procedures & scandals openly 
> > •   publicize open complaint procedures 
> > •   report public scandals promptly to members, law officials & 
> > public media 
> > •   allow free information flow & fully disclose "secrets," 
> > especially those that might affect potential members' choice to 
> join 
> > •   fully disclose the group's political & legislative 
> > involvement 
> > •   fully disclose finances, particularly international finances, 
> > with third-party audits 
> > •   create a member-driven task force to set reasonable fees for 
> > retreats & "courses" 
> > •   dialogue openly with laity, the press & the public 
> > Be Accountable 
> > •   publish - and adhere to - a set of ethics 
> > •   publish - and adhere to - all fees & donation policies 
> > •   oversee clergy & other agents with governing boards 
> > •   if any group agent acts unethically or illegally, take full 
> > responsibility 
> > Advocate Freedom 
> > •   allow open questioning of the leader's beliefs & practices 
> > •   Create a mechanism for modifying beliefs & practices 
> > •   create an elective or accountable structure of representation 
> > (as in most churches) 
> > •   promote freedom of speech within the group, without reprisals 
> > for contrary opinions 
> > •   promote academic freedom for clergy & scholars 
> > •   allow access to files/records held on members & public 
> > individuals 
> > •   advocate freedom to explore our spirituality without shunning 
> > or other repercussions 
> > •   avoid use of shame or guilt to control members 
> > Provide Member Protections 
> > •   institute safeguards against members devoting damaging 
> > amounts of time, money & emotional resources to the group 
> > Value Respect for Non-Members 
> > •   foster a systemic respect for other spiritual traditions & 
> > non-members 
> > •   foster a systemic respect for the rule of law, rather than 
> > the belief the ends justify the means 
> > •   foster a systemic respect for members' families, whether they 
> > are members or not 
> > •   foster a systemic practice of charity & support to the less 
> > fortunate 
> > •   encourage members to live or socialize with non-group members 
> > Provide Informed Consent 
> > •   fully disclose negative side-effects of group's mind-altering 
> > or medical techniques 
> > •   undertake real efforts to address & heal side-e

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
>  wrote:
> 
> > I also think you may overestimate your power. I can't think
> > of anything you might say that would cause me "not to hang
> > around."
> 
> Classic "Honest" John.
> 
> As he knows, I said nothing whatsoever to suggest
> or hint or imply that I thought anything I said
> would cause him not to hang around. He made that
> up so those who didn't remember what I *did* say
> would think that's what I had claimed.
> 
> I said explicitly why I bet he wouldn't hang
> around: He didn't get the kind of responses he
> was hoping for to his list of "TMO reforms."
> 
> He isn't a regular poster here. He drops in
> every once in a while when there's something
> on his agenda he wants to accomplish. He's very
> one-pointed that way. He'll make a little small
> talk for cover, but that's not why he shows up.
> He always has a purpose in mind.
> 
> He claims he's been interested in TMO reform for
> 13 years. Why did he suddenly decide only now 
> that he wanted to discuss it with us?

Actually it's classic Judy. It's amazing. I can leave FFL for months (usually 
related to an 
unrelenting international travel schedule) but when I look back in, there you 
are spouting 
the same tired old crap, calling people who disagree with you "liars" and 
pretending to be 
inside their heads to the degree that you know what they think. ("As Barry 
knows, As John 
Knows, As Sal Knows"...ad nauseum.)

I gathered some time ago that you are clueless as to how ridiculous you come 
off in these 
exchanges.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[Vaj]

On Jun 22, 2008, at 8:57 PM, John M. Knapp, LMSW wrote:


The thought for the night: "The world's not black or white."



I'll add to that:

"The world's not black or white...unless you have Borderline  
Personality Disorder, then it appears that way and you react  
accordingly."

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[dhamiltony2k5]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
. I would like to be proud of 
> the Movement again. If it were to become accountable as a spiritual 
>organization in the 
> ways I outlined, I could imagine wanting to be associated with it 
>again.
> 
> J.
>

John, this is an open ongoing discussion a lot around here inside & 
outside the movement too.  Is a lot of watching to see if the 
standard of integrity becomes something different from what it has 
been in the past.  

Is probably crucial to a success for the TMmovement in the 
marketplace.  They do have a self-made reputation in the world now 
based in folks' long experience.  A lot of people have left in ways & 
evidently not coming back.  A lot of folks watch & wait to see how 
the TMmovement may conduct themselves anew.  

The lack of lustre in dome meditating numbers tells something of 
this.  It is just the way it is.  People have a sense of what is fair 
and they seem to associate with integrity and often likely dis-
associate when integrities are lacking.  There is a human nature in 
that aspect of character.  The TMmovement evidently lost its 
integrity.  We'll see if they can find it.  

Though, is wonderfully utopian though what they are up to also in 
large group meditations.  There is an experience in that.  I wish 
them well.  To get to where they would like to go, i do suspect that 
they will have to attend to the aspects of what you offer in these 
critical points.

Thanks for taking the time to bring them to the table here.

-Doug in FF



> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "guyfawkes91"  
> >wrote:
> >
> > 
> > This is one of the best posts I've seen on here for a long time.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> Yeah, i agree with Guy, 
> 
>  Regardless of who they are, these two posts seem some of the more 
> honest forthright criticism of TM and the TM/FF circumstance of 
this 
> month.  Archival in ways: 
> 
> 1) taskcentered  wrote:
> "maybe they can dodge the cult label.
> Be Transparent 
> • discuss policies, procedures & scandals openly 
> • publicize open complaint procedures 
> • report public scandals promptly to members, law officials & 
> public media 
> • allow free information flow & fully disclose "secrets," 
> especially those that might affect potential members' choice to 
join 
> • fully disclose the group's political & legislative 
> involvement 
> • fully disclose finances, particularly international finances, 
> with third-party audits 
> • create a member-driven task force to set reasonable fees for 
> retreats & "courses" 
> • dialogue openly with laity, the press & the public 
> Be Accountable 
> • publish - and adhere to - a set of ethics 
> • publish - and adhere to - all fees & donation policies 
> • oversee clergy & other agents with governing boards 
> • if any group agent acts unethically or illegally, take full 
> responsibility 
> Advocate Freedom 
> • allow open questioning of the leader's beliefs & practices 
> • Create a mechanism for modifying beliefs & practices 
> • create an elective or accountable structure of representation 
> (as in most churches) 
> • promote freedom of speech within the group, without reprisals 
> for contrary opinions 
> • promote academic freedom for clergy & scholars 
> • allow access to files/records held on members & public 
> individuals 
> • advocate freedom to explore our spirituality without shunning 
> or other repercussions 
> • avoid use of shame or guilt to control members 
> Provide Member Protections 
> • institute safeguards against members devoting damaging 
> amounts of time, money & emotional resources to the group 
> Value Respect for Non-Members 
> • foster a systemic respect for other spiritual traditions & 
> non-members 
> • foster a systemic respect for the rule of law, rather than 
> the belief the ends justify the means 
> • foster a systemic respect for members' families, whether they 
> are members or not 
> • foster a systemic practice of charity & support to the less 
> fortunate 
> • encourage members to live or socialize with non-group members 
> Provide Informed Consent 
> • fully disclose negative side-effects of group's mind-altering 
> or medical techniques 
> • undertake real efforts to address & heal side-effects 
> • accept financial responsibility for members suffering side-
> effects 
> Imagine a Transcendental Meditation Org that acted with this kind 
of 
> integrity. 
> That's a spiritual organization I could be proud of. And I'm not 
> willing to accept anything less.   From 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/180553
> 
> & 2)
> 
> >TurquoiseB  wrote:
> Turq writes:: "With all due respect. 
> It would take the imposition
> of some "outside force" to shake people whose
> beliefs are that strong and c

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is my 50th post, so John, you get to have the
> last word, until next Friday evening, at least.

Okey-doke.


> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
>  wrote:
> 
> > Do you *know* the labels that are applied to people who
> > enjoy inflicting pain?
> 
> Have I inflicted pain on you, John?

You are answering a question with a question. Some people might interpret this 
as an 
attempt to avoid answering. Even weakness.

Yes, you certainly have inflicted pain on me in the past. Not so much recently. 
You've 
deeply wounded a number of my friends. I observed statements by you that 
certainly seem 
cruel.

But you spent volumes in the last couple days questioning my motives. I think 
it's fair to 
ask you about yours.

My question was very simple. 

Do you enjoy inflicting pain?

The answer is your choice. You could say, "No." You could say, "Yes." You could 
say, 
"Maybe so." You could just laugh.

I see nothing harmful in the question. I'm looking for information.


> 
> Or are you just trying for the sympathy vote by
> portraying yourself as a victim and demonizing
> me as a sadist? I mean, with your therapist
> credentials and all?
> 

I ask for no sympathy. It is my choice to engage you. Certainly if past history 
is any 
predictor, you *will* attempt to inflict pain on me -- and many others who 
disagree with 
you.

But I think your actions are revelatory. As is your dodging of questions.

I do not portray you as a sadist. Only you know your character and motivations. 
I've stated 
a number of times I don't believe it's possible to judge these things from a 
person's 
writings and public actions. 

I do treat you with the same caution that I would if I knew for a fact that you 
enjoyed 
hurting people.

It's just my opinion, but I think this cautious stance would be a wise 
precaution for anyone 
dealing with you. 

At least as you present yourself in forums such as this.


> I find it interesting that you didn't suggest to
> Barry (TurquoiseB) that he was a sadist when he
> was licking your butt by painting me as an
> "insane bitch" and a bunch of other insults far
> worse than anything I've said about you.

TurquiseB's actions are his own responsibility. If he inflicted pain on you, it 
is *your* 
responsibility to challenge him or choose not to engage him.

It's not *my* responsibility to defend or rescue you. Or TurquoiseB.

Do you believe you need rescuing?

For what it's worth, I don't use language like "insane bitch," and I am trying 
mightily not to 
trash you or say hurtful things to you. I'm sure I screw up sometimes. Your 
rage, 
bitterness, and hurtfulness -- as reflected in your actions -- are pretty 
overwhelming. I 
wouldn't be human if I didn't have some feelings under your barrage. And I may 
act out 
despite my best intentions.

I'd be glad to apologize for any hurtful things I may have said to you. Just 
point them out.

TurquoiseB makes choices I wouldn't make for myself. I would be very surprised 
if he 
wouldn't say something similar about me. 

Doesn't stop me from admiring him for other qualities. 

Also doesn't stop me from admiring you -- for your intelligence, 
articulateness, writing 
ability, loyalty, perseverance, etc. Although you do make choices I wouldn't.

The thought for the night: "The world's not black or white."

I have every right in *my* world to challenge your hurtful actions toward me, 
however.

There's no question that some of your attacks in the last couple of days have 
bordered on 
the defamatory or libelous -- as at least one other poster has pointed out.

I am taking what I consider a rather gentle road toward challenging your 
attacks.

> 
> > Or those who see conspiracies everywhere?
> 
> Where have I suggested a conspiracy, John? I
> think you do this stuff pretty much on your own.
> Again, you made that up to make readers think I
> suggested a conspiracy. So much easier to propose
> a diagnosis of psychopathology. You know, with
> your therapist credentials and all.

You've jumped to an unwarranted conclusion, in my opinion. I didn't propose a 
diagnosis. 
I asked *you* a question. 

And I didn't do so as a psychotherapist. Because I work in a helping profession 
doesn't 
mean I can't challenge your hurtful actions toward me. Priests, doctors, even 
lowly 
psychotherapists have a right to challenge hurtful actions.

How you respond, what you *feel,* these are your responsibilities.

You could say yes, no, or maybe so. You could laugh it off. These are choices 
*you* make.

I don't know you well enough to suggest psychopathology. 

I do say, quite directly, that your actions and speech are hurtful -- in my 
opinion. This has 
been pointed out to you over and over and over again. You choose to continue 
what looks 
to many of us as cruelty nonetheless.

To ask you, "Do you know the unpleasant names this tendency is known by?", is 
pretty 
gent

[FairfieldLife] Re: Muktananda's experiences of the subtle levels of creation.

[Yifu Xero]

thanks Richard for your e mail.. Precisely!  But this Sally Kempton neglected 
to comment on a far more profound issue; and you of all people should know 
about it already, having meditated in the presence of Adi Da at the Vedanta 
Temple. ...
 If you google the internet regarding the famous "last conversation" between 
Adi Da and Muktananda, and then read the works of Adi Da, you will of course 
see his POV: that Muktananda's realization was lesser than his, and Adi Da then 
goes on to mention Ramana Maharshi.
  Basically, Adi Da is saying he's E. whereas Muktananda and Nityananda were 
not since Muktananda was fascinated by the Blue Pearl (light) and Nityananda 
was into the OM (Sound).
 This argument has holes in it: namely that E'd people AFTER realizing the Self 
can engage the senses in anything they like! (but this by no means implies that 
such engagement is an "attachment" in the dualistic sense).  We don't know this 
and it's virtually impossible to tell.  All we can do is scrutininze the works 
of Multananda and then 3 of his successors: (3 initiated Swamis): 1. 
Chetanananda, 2. Shankarananda (lives in Australia) and 3. Master Charles 
Cannon.
However, Muktananda's POV (literally a VIEW) was - or seems to be - that AFTER 
Self-Realization, one can still "use" any of the subtle occurrences of Lighrt 
or Sound, or still engage the senses in those levels just for fun.
 As I on many occasions bring out to Jim 108: (who claims Enlightenment), why 
does he criticize people like Muktananda for engaging the senses in the Blue 
Pearl while he (Jim Flanagan) can engage the senses in seeing the movie "In 
Bruge".
 Therefore, Sally Kempton's thesis has big holes in it; but just based on that 
brief statement of hers; I'd suggest (like many Fairfield contributors), 
they've been royally duped by the Neo-Advaitins.
But thanks anyway for your e mail. Contact me at any time, in the meantime my 
own research continues.
Essentially, I reject the Neo-Advaitins as being half-baked to the Throne of 
Wisdom and those well short of Guru Dev's level.
HOWEVER, this is not to say that many of the Neo-Advaitins have realized the 
Self.
Your POV (and you DO have pov's) differs from mine.
You lump all the Neo-Advaitins together in one group: from Gangaji to Ramesh 
Balsekar (and countless others coming out of the woodwork); where my claim is 
that such persons are far short of Enlightenment.  
Thus, not all Self-Realizations are the same.  Compare (so and so) to Guru Dev.
Big difference!
 
--- On Sat, 6/21/08, Richard J. Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Richard J. Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Muktananda's experiences of the subtle levels of creation.
To: "yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 7:29 AM

> ...from "The Play of Consciousness"
>
"Success on the path is not measured by seeing
Blue Pearls or white light, or having great
visions, but by attainment of concentrative
focus, contentment, compassion, lovingkindness
and wisdom."

Read more:

'The Heart of Meditation'
By Swami Durgananda (Sally Kempton)
Siddha Yoga Publications, 2002
Amazon reviews:
http://tinyurl.com/4sghte

Sally Kempton:
http://www.sallykempton.com/


  

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[Bhairitu]

Yahoo Groups Post Counter
=
Start Date (UTC): Sat Jun 21 00:00:00 2008
End Date (UTC): Sat Jun 28 00:00:00 2008
-- Searching...

271 messages as of (UTC) Sun Jun 22 23:53:56 2008
Member   Posts

"authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  49
"John M. Knapp, LMSW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  29
"sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>20
"Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>18
off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  16
Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   16
TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>15
"shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9
"curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  7
"sandiego108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>6
nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6
"do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  6
"feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>6
Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>5
"taskcentered" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 5
"Kenny H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   5
"yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  4
"Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>4
bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  4
"new.morning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4
Louis McKenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>4
Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4
ruthsimplicity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>3
"boo_lives" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>3
Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3
"dhamiltony2k5" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>2
"lurkernomore20002000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  2
cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  2
hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>2
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com2
"Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   2
"mrfishey2001" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  2
"george_deforest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>1
"tertonzeno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  1
"matrixmonitor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>1
gullible fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 1
"amarnath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   1
"Stu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>1
posters: 38
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Please stop trying to "therapize" me. I am immune to it. 
> 
> Your claim to want to reform the TM movement is ridiculous. You are
> not in the TM movement, so how can you reform it? Why should anyone
> take any notice of you? You chose to leave, so stick to your decision.
> In any case, I can't imagine that anyone would ever trust you again. 
>

No one's trying to "therapize" you.

I'm glad you are immune to it -- whatever that is.

I do note, however, you chose not to answer any of my questions. Some might 
take that as 
a position of weakness. 

I do not have to be part of the TM Movement to want to reform it. In some 
regards, I will 
always be a TM teacher. It was part of me for a very long time. It still is.

Many former Catholics are active in reform organizations. Many expatriates are 
eager to 
reform the policies of the US -- particularly the current ones. 

This doesn't in any way seem like a paradox to me.

"Leaving" the TM Movement is not a black/white thing, either. I would like to 
be proud of 
the Movement again. If it were to become accountable as a spiritual 
organization in the 
ways I outlined, I could imagine wanting to be associated with it again.

Some people *don't* trust me. That much is evident. 

But many do! I make my living and follow my career, which is based on trust.

It appears difficult for you to imagine people trust me. 

What does it feel like to know so many disagree with your position?

J.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[authfriend]

This is my 50th post, so John, you get to have the
last word, until next Friday evening, at least.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Do you *know* the labels that are applied to people who
> enjoy inflicting pain?

Have I inflicted pain on you, John?

Or are you just trying for the sympathy vote by
portraying yourself as a victim and demonizing
me as a sadist? I mean, with your therapist
credentials and all?

I find it interesting that you didn't suggest to
Barry (TurquoiseB) that he was a sadist when he
was licking your butt by painting me as an
"insane bitch" and a bunch of other insults far
worse than anything I've said about you.

> Or those who see conspiracies everywhere?

Where have I suggested a conspiracy, John? I
think you do this stuff pretty much on your own.
Again, you made that up to make readers think I
suggested a conspiracy. So much easier to propose
a diagnosis of psychopathology. You know, with
your therapist credentials and all.


> Can you tell me some ways that you've grown and changed in
> the last 13 years?

The pertinent one here is that I've become even
less tolerant of malicious dishonesty.

You had a chance to begin to change my perspective
on you by disavowing your 1996 "Trancenet Alert"
campaign and admitting you had deliberately grossly
distorted the truth about the third world TM center
project, in order to scare the wits out of people who
weren't in a position to know what you'd done and
increase traffic to your Web site, as well as
creating an utterly unjustified picture in the public
mind of MMY as a latter-day Jim Jones.

That was *inexcusable*, yet you declared here that
you weren't at all ashamed of it.

My initial comment to Dan was to warn him not to
give you any inside information about Janet
Hoffmann's current project. Your blithe response
to my posting the Trancenet Alert "press releases"
sure does confirm I was right to warn him.


> > He claims he's been interested in TMO reform for
> > 13 years. Why did he suddenly decide only now 
> > that he wanted to discuss it with us?
> 
> The answer is really simple. I wrote the essay that started
> this topic last week. I thought it achieved something I
> hadn't before: looking at the question of reform not from a
> list of complaints and problems, but rather from a list of
> positive dreams.

Complaints and problems automatically define their
corresponding "positive dreams." Complaint: TM charges
unreasonable fees. Positive dream: TM should charge
fees that are reasonable.

This is just now occurring to you??

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[feste37]

Please stop trying to "therapize" me. I am immune to it. 

Your claim to want to reform the TM movement is ridiculous. You are
not in the TM movement, so how can you reform it? Why should anyone
take any notice of you? You chose to leave, so stick to your decision.
In any case, I can't imagine that anyone would ever trust you again. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > I'm not on a spiritual path, which is a meaningless phrase. You're
> > pretending to be all nicey-nice but I don't believe a word of it. 
> > 
> 
> In cognitive therapy attributing thoughts, feelings, and motives to
others is called "mind 
> reading." It's considered a "cognitive distortion." It's thought to
lead to pain and 
> dysfunction for a lot of people.
> 
> Does it give you pleasure or happiness to believe bad things about me?
> 
> Or do you find yourself becoming angry, even unhappy?
> 
> For the purposes of an Internet group, where you and I will never
meet and I have truly a 
> limited ability to harm you in any way, can you explain the
differences between 
> "pretending" to be nice and actually being so?
> 
> What difference does the internal state of heart and soul make to
you, after all? Only my 
> actions can affect you.
> 
> Have I been hurtful to you or anyone that you know of? If you can
point me toward 
> someone I've harmed, I'll do my best to apologize and make amends.
> 
> 
> J.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

> 
> Why? What do you define as a "spiritual path?" For all you know, there are  
> "spiritual
> paths" where everyone is encouraged to attempt  to hurt everyone in order to
> force them to grow in some way.
> 
> 
> Lawson
>

Hi, Lawson,

Long time since we've talked.

I think for my purposes here, defining a spiritual path isn't necessary. Too 
many variables.

Fortunately for the sake of my discussion, most posters here practice TM or a 
similar 
tradition and do so for what they consider "spiritual" reasons. This usually 
includes the 
idea of self-betterment, "evolution," good and bad karma, etc. My guess most of 
us have 
more in common spiritually than we differ. Could be wrong I suppose.

I believe the poster I responded to, and you, follow such paths. Feel free to 
correct me if 
I'm wrong.

Do you or feste or anybody follow a path that encourages pain? It's certainly 
possible, I 
suppose.

Do you believe the Maharishi followed such a path?

It's not a path I would want to follow. Nor the vast majority of the human 
race, I imagine.

*Do* you believe inflicting pain is good? Acceptable?

J.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm not on a spiritual path, which is a meaningless phrase. You're
> pretending to be all nicey-nice but I don't believe a word of it. 
> 

In cognitive therapy attributing thoughts, feelings, and motives to others is 
called "mind 
reading." It's considered a "cognitive distortion." It's thought to lead to 
pain and 
dysfunction for a lot of people.

Does it give you pleasure or happiness to believe bad things about me?

Or do you find yourself becoming angry, even unhappy?

For the purposes of an Internet group, where you and I will never meet and I 
have truly a 
limited ability to harm you in any way, can you explain the differences between 
"pretending" to be nice and actually being so?

What difference does the internal state of heart and soul make to you, after 
all? Only my 
actions can affect you.

Have I been hurtful to you or anyone that you know of? If you can point me 
toward 
someone I've harmed, I'll do my best to apologize and make amends.


J. 

[FairfieldLife] Closing Enron Loophole Would Drop Oil Prices 25%-50% Overnight

[do.rflex]

Closing Enron Loophole Would Drop Oil Prices 25% - 50% Overnight


[NOTE: Enron Loophole deregulation law is still screwing the American
people via McCain's economic advisor, Phil Gramm and Big Oil lobbyists
running McCain's campaign. See details in video below.]


Congress and George Bush could take a step tomorrow that would create
a drop in oil prices of between 25 and 50 percent overnight, simply by
closing the Enron Loophole.

This is according to testimony before a Senate Committee two weeks ago
by Michael Greenberger, the former director of Trading & Markets for
the Commodities Future Trading Commission (CFTC), the government board
that oversees commodities markets:

"Yes, overnight [closing the Enron Loophole] will bring down the price
of crude oil to get at least a 25 percent drop in the cost of oil and
a corresponding drop in the cost of gasoline. Some people estimate 50
percent."

Greenberger's testimony was brought to light by an investigation into
the Enron Loophole by Keith Olbermann on MSNBC's "Countdown" last week.

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaDelhvtQ98

Links: http://tinyurl.com/jsua3


UPDATE: Obama Announces Plan to Fully Close the Enron Loophole, Crack
Down on Excessive Energy Speculation

CHICAGO, IL — Senator Barack Obama today announced his plan to crack
down on excessive energy speculation and fully close the "Enron
Loophole" to ease the impact skyrocketing gas prices.

The Enron Loophole was created by McCain campaign co-chair Phil Gramm
at the behest of Enron—just one example of the special interest
politics that put the interests of Big Oil and speculators ahead of
the interests of working people. And the American people have seen the
results: record corporate profits while Americans pay record prices at
the pump.

"For the past years, our energy policy in this country has been simply
to let the special interests have their way—opening up loopholes for
the oil companies and speculators so that they could reap record
profits while the rest of us pay $4.00 a gallon," Senator Obama said.
"My plan fully closes the Enron Loophole and restores common-sense
regulation as part of my broader plan to ease the burden for
struggling families today while investing in a better future."

http://thepage.time.com/obama-release-on-enron-loophole/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

"
> 
> Classic "Honest" John.

It appears you are still attempting to inflict pain. Futilely. Scare quotes are 
so 90s.

Can you answer my earlier question, how you square this intention to inflict 
pain with 
following a spiritual path?

Do you *know* the labels that are applied to people who enjoy inflicting pain?

Or those who see conspiracies everywhere?

> 
> As he knows, I said nothing whatsoever to suggest
> or hint or imply that I thought anything I said
> would cause him not to hang around. He made that
> up so those who didn't remember what I *did* say
> would think that's what I had claimed.
> 
> I said explicitly why I bet he wouldn't hang
> around: He didn't get the kind of responses he
> was hoping for to his list of "TMO reforms."

Nah, I read your post too quickly. I guess I misunderstood. Sorry!

> 
> He isn't a regular poster here. He drops in
> every once in a while when there's something
> on his agenda he wants to accomplish. He's very
> one-pointed that way. He'll make a little small
> talk for cover, but that's not why he shows up.
> He always has a purpose in mind.

This is all true. I'm not sure what you see as wrong with that. Many people are 
occasional 
posters here. 

Do you take issue with them as well?

I did state my agenda up front: to discuss reform of the TM movement.

All the side discussions about my character have distracted me somewhat from 
that 
purpose, but I've tried to do a good job of always bringing the question up 
again.

The small talk isn't for cover, however. Cover for what? If I were doing 
something illegal or 
shameful I might look for cover, I suppose. 

Do *you* feel I'm doing something illegal or shameful?

I don't see any shame in posting here occasionally -- with a purpose in mind.

Could you explain what you find wrong with that?

Anyway, there is a group of really interesting people here. When I do drop in, 
I enjoy a 
little discussion and repartee.

Like my quick note to TurquoiseB on science fiction. Whenever I can give props 
to Philip K. 
Dick and Alfred Bester I grab the opportunity.

As a side note, TurquoiseB and I, back when he used a different handle on the 
old AMT, 
crossed swords a number of times. Doesn't keep me from enjoying his cyber 
company 
today. It seems we've both changed and grown since then. Thirteen years is a 
long time. 
It'd be a shame if we didn't grow and change.

Can you tell me some ways that you've grown and changed in the last 13 years?

The world isn't black and white. There's almost always something cool about 
anybody. 
This is true of the Maharishi and you, I believe.

> 
> He claims he's been interested in TMO reform for
> 13 years. Why did he suddenly decide only now 
> that he wanted to discuss it with us?
>

The answer is really simple. I wrote the essay that started this topic last 
week. I thought it 
achieved something I hadn't before: looking at the question of reform not from 
a list of 
complaints and problems, but rather from a list of positive dreams.

Rightly or wrongly, I thought people would be interested. 

I've posted it on a number of sites, btw. Generally, it's received a warm 
reception. Which 
pleases me.

Judy, you may remember back when you frequented TM-Free Blog about a year ago, 
that I 
did a number of posts based on the "strengths perspective." Talking about the 
strengths 
of people recovering from cults, of adult children of cult members, and of some 
other 
groups.

This is a new focus for me. It started with my training as a therapist. It's 
given me a new, 
interesting way of looking at these issues. It seems to get warmer feedback 
than the lists 
of complaints I have published.

I hope this helps explain myself a little better to you.

J.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Amrit Kalash and Chemo/Radiation Therapy

[Vaj]

On Jun 22, 2008, at 5:52 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Ruth passed this on to me offlist; it may be of interest to those
questioning the wisdom of taking free radical scavenging herbs like
Amrit Kalash, etc. concurrently with chemotherapy or radiation
therapy. This will make immediate sense to anyone with a background  
in

Medicine and/or biochemistry:


Ruth, perhaps if your listening you could chime in on this one.




http://jdc.jefferson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=jmbcim

Not a consensus at this point, but I used to avoid having patients
take massive doses of vitamin C during chemo or radiation.




"Used to avoid..."

Now, the other issue is "mega-doses of VItamin C," since the term  
"mega-
dose" usually refers to taking pure vitamin C rather than eating an  
orange

or three. In the Case of MAK Nectar, amlaka is high in C, but some
researchers are claiming that this is due to polyphenols (tannins),  
and not
Vitamin C itself. Regardless, MAK nectar and tablets are extremely  
complex
preparations containing many dozens of herbs and spices and fruits,  
so to
base a conclusion about possible ill-effects of MAK on research on a  
pure

substance is likely the wrong way to go.

Instead, you'd want to look at _in vitro_ studies on humans, such as:

http://www.mapi.com/en/research/chemotoxicity1.html

Antioxidant Adjuvant Therapy Using Natural Herbal Mixtures [MAK-4  
and MAK-5]
During Intensive Chemotherapy: Reduction in Toxicity. A Prospective  
Study of

62 Patients

http://www.mapi.com/en/research/chemotoxicity4.html

Maharishi Amrit Kalash [MAK-4 and MAK-5] Reduces Chemotherapy  
Toxicity in

Breast Cancer Patients



In terms of a biochemical mechanism Lawson, it has really nothing to  
do with whether or not Amrit Kalash has vitamin C but whether or not  
it's free radical scavenging potentials interfere with a free radical  
damaging agent or mechanism as used in radiation and chemo- therapy.


Do you have more than an abstract on these studies (a PDF)? As per  
usual they seem to have the usual bias with TM research and thus  
should be  considered highly dubious.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Congress Prepares to GUT the Fourth Amendment

[Bhairitu]

do.rflex wrote:
>     INVINCIBLE AMERICA  
>
> Is the USA becoming like the old USSR where the government spies on
> its own citizens with impunity - and the telecommunications industry
> has become nothing more than a contracted puppet instrument of the
> state funded with your tax dollars?
>
> Keith Olbermann and Jonathan Turley discuss what's going on with this
> criminal immunity bill in Congress...
>
> Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2MpyODTLnY
Obama says he'll try to stop the bill in the senate:
http://rawstory.com/news08/2008/06/21/obama-ill-fight-to-strip-telecom-immunity-from-fisa/

And Neocon Bill Kristol says Bush may attack Iran if he thinks Obama 
might get elected:
http://rawstory.com/news08/2008/06/22/kristol-bush-might-attack-iran-if-he-thinks-obama-will-win/

What a tyranny the Bush administration has become.  The darkest page in 
American history.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[feste37]

I'm not on a spiritual path, which is a meaningless phrase. You're
pretending to be all nicey-nice but I don't believe a word of it. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > You're being deliberately obtuse. People who claim they were lied to
> > again and again are playing the victim. Maharishi didn't lie to you.
> > He gave you a wonderful technique for spiritual growth. It was you who
> > lacked understanding -- and then you betrayed the person who had
> > helped you. Shame.  
> >
> 
> I think it's too bad that you label people who disagree with you as
obtuse -- or any other 
> hurtful label.
> 
> I gave my definition of victimization. Your differs.
> 
> Mine works for me. I'm sure yours works for you.
> 
> I believe the Maharishi lied to me -- and to others.  You don't.
> 
> 
> See? We can disagree without hurtfulness.
> 
> I expect no less from someone following a spiritual path.
> 
> J.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[feste37]

>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > > "It was a sacrifice of life to leave the Himalayas. But
necessary to 
> > > bring about this new, golden age for mankind."
> > > 
> > > - Maharishi, Boppard, Germany, 1982
> > 
> > Funny how religious dudes speak about their sacrifices while amassing
> > huge wealth.  It is part of their "story."   And we are supposed to
> > believe that he preferred living without indoor plumbing to the golden
> > throne?  Or that he, unlike any of the rest of us, didn't gain more
> > meaning in his life by going out, meeting people and laying his rap on
> > them.  He was so fulfilled sitting on his butt in the mountains that
> > he didn't gain more joy for his life by becoming a teacher?  Or that
> > his nature completely changed after 13 years of running around for
> > Guru Dev, and he would be perfectly happy sitting on a rock in the
> > mountains?  
> > 
> > He loved creating his own myths didn't he?
> > 
> > Here is my take:  The guy was always a very active guy.  He fell into
> > a 2 year depression funk after his life partner died, and after
> > feeling better went back to being a super active guy building his own
> > empire and delighting in micromanaging every detail.  He had as much
> > chance of sitting on his butt in the mountains as The Donald. 
> >

Well, it must have been a sacrifice to leave the silence of the
Himalayas to end up being insulted by people like you. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > You're being deliberately obtuse. People who claim they were lied to
> > again and again are playing the victim. Maharishi didn't lie to you.
> > He gave you a wonderful technique for spiritual growth. It was you who
> > lacked understanding -- and then you betrayed the person who had
> > helped you. Shame.  
> >
> 
> I think it's too bad that you label people who disagree with you as obtuse -- 
> or any 
other 
> hurtful label.
> 
> I gave my definition of victimization. Your differs.
> 
> Mine works for me. I'm sure yours works for you.
> 
> I believe the Maharishi lied to me -- and to others.  You don't.
> 
> 
> See? We can disagree without hurtfulness.
> 
> I expect no less from someone following a spiritual path.

Why? What do you define as a "spiritual path?" For all you know, there are  
"spiritual
paths" where everyone is encouraged to attempt  to hurt everyone in order to
force them to grow in some way.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You're being deliberately obtuse. People who claim they were lied to
> again and again are playing the victim. Maharishi didn't lie to you.
> He gave you a wonderful technique for spiritual growth. It was you who
> lacked understanding -- and then you betrayed the person who had
> helped you. Shame.  
>

I think it's too bad that you label people who disagree with you as obtuse -- 
or any other 
hurtful label.

I gave my definition of victimization. Your differs.

Mine works for me. I'm sure yours works for you.

I believe the Maharishi lied to me -- and to others.  You don't.


See? We can disagree without hurtfulness.

I expect no less from someone following a spiritual path.

J.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Amrit Kalash and Chemo/Radiation Therapy

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ruth passed this on to me offlist; it may be of interest to those  
> questioning the wisdom of taking free radical scavenging herbs like  
> Amrit Kalash, etc. concurrently with chemotherapy or radiation  
> therapy. This will make immediate sense to anyone with a background in  
> Medicine and/or biochemistry:
> 
> > Ruth, perhaps if your listening you could chime in on this one.
> >
> 
> 
> http://jdc.jefferson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=jmbcim
> 
> Not a consensus at this point, but I used to avoid having patients
> take massive doses of vitamin C during chemo or radiation.
>


"Used to avoid..."

Now, the other issue is "mega-doses of VItamin C," since the term "mega-
dose" usually refers to taking pure vitamin C rather than eating an orange 
or three. In the Case of MAK Nectar, amlaka is high in C, but some 
researchers are claiming that this is due to polyphenols (tannins), and not 
Vitamin C itself. Regardless, MAK nectar and tablets are extremely complex
 preparations containing many dozens of herbs and spices and fruits, so to 
base a conclusion about possible ill-effects of MAK on research on a pure 
substance is likely the wrong way to go.

Instead, you'd want to look at _in vitro_ studies on humans, such as:

http://www.mapi.com/en/research/chemotoxicity1.html

Antioxidant Adjuvant Therapy Using Natural Herbal Mixtures [MAK-4 and MAK-5] 
During Intensive Chemotherapy: Reduction in Toxicity. A Prospective Study of 
62 Patients

http://www.mapi.com/en/research/chemotoxicity4.html

Maharishi Amrit Kalash [MAK-4 and MAK-5] Reduces Chemotherapy Toxicity in 
Breast Cancer Patients




Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "It was a sacrifice of life to leave the Himalayas. But necessary to 
> > bring about this new, golden age for mankind."
> > 
> > - Maharishi, Boppard, Germany, 1982
> 
> Funny how religious dudes speak about their sacrifices while amassing
> huge wealth.  It is part of their "story."   And we are supposed to
> believe that he preferred living without indoor plumbing to the golden
> throne?  Or that he, unlike any of the rest of us, didn't gain more
> meaning in his life by going out, meeting people and laying his rap on
> them.  He was so fulfilled sitting on his butt in the mountains that
> he didn't gain more joy for his life by becoming a teacher?  Or that
> his nature completely changed after 13 years of running around for
> Guru Dev, and he would be perfectly happy sitting on a rock in the
> mountains?  
> 
> He loved creating his own myths didn't he?
> 
> Here is my take:  The guy was always a very active guy.  He fell into
> a 2 year depression funk after his life partner died, and after
> feeling better went back to being a super active guy building his own
> empire and delighting in micromanaging every detail.  He had as much
> chance of sitting on his butt in the mountains as The Donald. 
>

Well, note that he did set up one of his major world centers quite
near Cedar Rapids -- the sin capital of the world. You do the math.

[FairfieldLife] Amrit Kalash and Chemo/Radiation Therapy

[Vaj]

Ruth passed this on to me offlist; it may be of interest to those  
questioning the wisdom of taking free radical scavenging herbs like  
Amrit Kalash, etc. concurrently with chemotherapy or radiation  
therapy. This will make immediate sense to anyone with a background in  
Medicine and/or biochemistry:



Ruth, perhaps if your listening you could chime in on this one.




http://jdc.jefferson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=jmbcim

Not a consensus at this point, but I used to avoid having patients
take massive doses of vitamin C during chemo or radiation.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[curtisdeltablues]

> "It was a sacrifice of life to leave the Himalayas. But necessary to 
> bring about this new, golden age for mankind."
> 
> - Maharishi, Boppard, Germany, 1982

Funny how religious dudes speak about their sacrifices while amassing
huge wealth.  It is part of their "story."   And we are supposed to
believe that he preferred living without indoor plumbing to the golden
throne?  Or that he, unlike any of the rest of us, didn't gain more
meaning in his life by going out, meeting people and laying his rap on
them.  He was so fulfilled sitting on his butt in the mountains that
he didn't gain more joy for his life by becoming a teacher?  Or that
his nature completely changed after 13 years of running around for
Guru Dev, and he would be perfectly happy sitting on a rock in the
mountains?  

He loved creating his own myths didn't he?

Here is my take:  The guy was always a very active guy.  He fell into
a 2 year depression funk after his life partner died, and after
feeling better went back to being a super active guy building his own
empire and delighting in micromanaging every detail.  He had as much
chance of sitting on his butt in the mountains as The Donald. 



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
>  wrote:
> > 
> > He wasn't big on charity, but he did teach the suturas "friendliness, 
> compassion, 
> > happiness" as the first, and perhaps most important, TM-Sidhis.
> 
> 
> I beg your pardon !
>  
> Maharishi's life was one big charity from beginning to end. He 
> sacrified His whole life for mankind to create the gloriuous future we 
> are about to enjoy.
> 
> "It was a sacrifice of life to leave the Himalayas. But necessary to 
> bring about this new, golden age for mankind."
> 
> - Maharishi, Boppard, Germany, 1982
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  
> wrote:
> >
> > On Jun 22, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Hugo wrote:
> > 
> > > I should have added ayurveda to my list of things the
> > > TMO should be testing (or rather independent people
> > > should be testing). The thing that gets me riled the
> > > most is the cancer curing claims made for amrit kalash.
> > > There haven't, as far as I know, been any tests done
> > > on humans with this stuff and yet it is routinely
> > > prescribed in large doses to people with terminal
> > > cancer.
> > 
> > Hugo, that's because the amrit is so awful, after you take it,
> > the cancer doesn't seem quite so bad.
> > 
> > See? There is method to their madness after all.
> > 
> > Sal
> > Took one look, one taste, and said, "Forget it."
> 
> 
> You could be onto something here, I offered some to
> my dog once and she recoiled in disgust. 
> 
> I thought that was funny coming from an animal who'd
> pick the lumpy bits out of cold vomit off the pavement,
> if I let her that is.
>

Perhaps your dog is very stupid?


My experience with cats is that they seem to like the stuff, or at
least aren't dismayed by it.


lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Alpha coherence drops during TM

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 21, 2008, at 11:28 PM, sparaig wrote:
> 
> >> It was an important part of the beginning phase of interest in
> >> meditation.
> >>
> >
> > Yes But that avoids answering my question: the judgement of ALL
> > those other reseachers on meditation has been tainted by the TM
> > research, is that what you are saying?
> 
> 
> No, the field in general has been tainted by their viral marketing of  
> pseudoscience as real science, so therefore other researchers,  
> believing that higher states of consciousness were connected to raw  
> alpha coherence, followed suit.
> 
> You do not seem to have heard some of the internal reports in the TMO  
> of how this came about, so I'll share with you this anecdote. When the  
> TM scientists first were looking for some effect from TM with EEG,  
> they could find none. Nothing. MMY insisted there was an effect, they  
> just weren't looking in the right place or something. So they looked  
> harder and still didn't find anything. Still, MMY insisted there was  
> something in the EEG. The researchers finally relented and said well  
> there was a minute increase in alpha coherence in some leads. MMY  
> immediately insisted that this was the effect and it was this they  
> should research. Some of the researchers still didn't believe it and  
> this is how the story leaked out.

No doubt retold dozens of times...

> 
> And that's the story of alpha EEG coherence in TM. "Research it or be  
> kicked out" kinda thing: "my way or the highway".
> 
> Thus began one of the biggest viral marketing campaigns, presented as  
> science, in modern times. But a very successful one in terms of  
> monetary reward for the Srivistava clan!
> 
> Until the recent re-discovery of samadhi and gamma EEG coherence in  
> yogis, delta was considered deep meditation among researchers.
>

Delta is considered a sign of deep sleep. Perhaps, you're thinking of theta?


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  
> > > wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > In any case, two TMO-related organizations *did*
> > > sue Andrew Skolnick for that disgraceful muck-
> > > raking article he wrote for JAMA, and that certainly
> > > must have been with blessings from the top.
> > 
> > Sued successfully?
> > 
> > The only story by Skolnick I can find in JAMA is
> > the one about Chopra and co lying about having
> > financial intertsts in ayurveda. This one in fact:
> > 
> > http://www.skeptictank.org/gs/sci603.htm
> > 
> > Doesn't sound like muckraking to me. Maybe he has 
> > expectations borne of experience about how researchers
> > should conduct themselves. Perhaps this is a case of 
> > your opinion clouding judgement? Happens a lot round
> > here I've noticed. I've commented myself that the TMO
> > often seems to use science as a marketing tool and isn't 
> > really interested in whether the claims it makes are 
> > true or not, and that is something I worked out over 
> > many years, not an unreasoned rant. Quantum physics and 
> > jyotish anyone? 
> > 
> > I would like to know what happened in court with 
> > Skolnick though.
> > 
> 
> Call off the search, I've found it. Case dismissed and,
> I have to say, quite rightly so.
> 
> I should have added ayurveda to my list of things the
> TMO should be testing (or rather independent people 
> should be testing). The thing that gets me riled the 
> most is the cancer curing claims made for amrit kalash.
> There haven't, as far as I know, been any tests done 
> on humans with this stuff and yet it is routinely
> prescribed in large doses to people with terminal
> cancer. I have known two people who died after being
> reommended the wonder gloop, both of whom had a long
> slow miserable death. What justification is there for
> this? A study showing cancer cells are destroyed in
> a petri dish, what they don't mention is that bodies
> behave somewhat differently and one result cannot be
> infered from the other. Didn't stop the TMO though 
> did it? Shame it isn't illegal to refuse medical help
> in favour of untested folk medicine. The fact that it's
> time-tested wisdom of the vedas cuts no ice with me,
> it works or it doesn't.
> 
> Judy, a serious question: Given that you're into 
> fighting for truth and justice and all that shouldn't
> you be on Skolnicks side in this? Far from muckraking
> he was making some serious points about medical 
> quackery that should be exposed. How much of ayurvedic
> medicine has actually been double-blind tested and 
> independently at that?
>

Gee why don't you go to pubmed and search?

There's been recent research published on the genetic markers
of doshas, for example.


btw, for what it is worth:

http://www.mapi.com/en/research/index-chemotoxicity.html

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[feste37]

You're being deliberately obtuse. People who claim they were lied to
again and again are playing the victim. Maharishi didn't lie to you.
He gave you a wonderful technique for spiritual growth. It was you who
lacked understanding -- and then you betrayed the person who had
helped you. Shame.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> > If that is the case, why do you write whiny-child "I'm a victim" crap
> > like the following, which appears under your name on trancenet:
> > 
> 
> I'm sure I don't understand you.
> 
> To say the Maharishi lied, which I believe he did, does not portray
me as a victim as far as I 
> can see.
> 
> One can object to the unethical, immoral, hurtful, dangerous, etc.
actions of another -- 
> particularly a public figure -- without being victimized.
> 
> Wouldn't you agree that calling the Catholic Church to task for
their actions over priest 
> molestations is a good thing to do?
> 
> Being a victim, to my way of thinking, involves blaming another for
damage WITHOUT 
> taking responsibility for making a change in one's own life.
> 
> I don't think I've ever advocated anything like not taking
responsibility for the direction of 
> one's life -- no matter how abused one has been in the past. 
> 
> But who knows? I've written tens of thousands of words in the last
13 years on these 
> subjects. I know there are contradictions in what I've written.
> 
> I know I've changed my character, opinions, and actions greatly
since I first started 
> publishing in anger on the old AMT or trancenet.net.
> 
> I can't change the past. I *can* apologize and make amends as best
I'm able. 
> 
> And if you point out a contradiction or hurtful action, I'd make it
my responsibility to 
> apologize and make amends. In the present.
> 
> J.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ubik

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yeah,
> 
> I've been having some trouble with posts today. Operator error, 
> no doubt. ;)
> 
> Yeah, I threw out a few titles I adore: The Three Stigmata of 
> Palmer Eldritch, Radio Free Albemuth, The Man in the High Castle, 
> some others I've forgotten.

Loved The Man In The High Castle and don't really
remember the other two, which is why I'm playing
"reread PKD" on the beach this summer.
 
> I've been reading Dick since my teenage years. A sick, twisted 
> genius! As one critic said, he's our Jorge Luis Borges.

Yup. Right up there with Raymond Chandler as an
unappreciated literary genius. (PKD was a better
"idea man," but Chandler was a better writer IMO.)

> I also threw out another name and wondered what you thought of 
> Alfred Bester's work: The Stars My Destination, The Demolished 
> Man. Another crazy man touched by genius. He also prefigured 
> cyberpunk in the 1950s  and much of the next 50 years of great 
> science fiction.

I read them all at the time, and loved them, but
to be honest can't remember a damned thing about
them. Damned mental RAM's full. :-)

> I had no idea you enjoyed this type of stuff. Yet another reason 
> to admire you.

Well, I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, I used to
love SciFi. I was infamous on the West Coast for
giving a lecture at Asilomar on "SCI and SciFi."
I think I referenced Bester in that talk.

Interestingly enough, now that you bring it up, 
SciFi was my "sanity break" from the TMO during
those years. By day I'd be working at the national
TM center in one capacity or another, but by night
I'd be hangin' out at the Change Of Hobbit bookstore,
and hangin' with the writers. Sherry was the owner,
and called herself the Hobbitch, and sponsored all
sorts of book signings and talks by the authors 
and just plain parties, so it was a fun place to
hang out. And a welcome breath of fresh air from
1015 Gayley, just down the street. It was the sort
of place where Harlan Ellison wrote a whole book
while sitting in Sherry's front window typing while
people walking by gawked at him, just to prove he
could. Fun times.

My favorites in that period were probably Roger
Zelazny (Lord Of Light, the Amber series, Eye
Of Cat), Ursula K. Le Guin (The Left Hand Of
Darkness, the Earthsea Trilogy, countless others),
and Orson Scott Card (Songmaster, many others).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I also think you may overestimate your power. I can't think
> of anything you might say that would cause me "not to hang
> around."

Classic "Honest" John.

As he knows, I said nothing whatsoever to suggest
or hint or imply that I thought anything I said
would cause him not to hang around. He made that
up so those who didn't remember what I *did* say
would think that's what I had claimed.

I said explicitly why I bet he wouldn't hang
around: He didn't get the kind of responses he
was hoping for to his list of "TMO reforms."

He isn't a regular poster here. He drops in
every once in a while when there's something
on his agenda he wants to accomplish. He's very
one-pointed that way. He'll make a little small
talk for cover, but that's not why he shows up.
He always has a purpose in mind.

He claims he's been interested in TMO reform for
13 years. Why did he suddenly decide only now 
that he wanted to discuss it with us?

[FairfieldLife] Re: God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[feste37]

I agree absolutely. Cedar Rapids is packed with wrongdoers. I had an
encounter there once with a woman in a motel room, and boy, was she an
evildoer! So that kind of proves it, doesn't it? To me the surprising
thing is not that Cedar Rapids got flooded, but that it didn't happen
sooner. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You gotta love these assholes who think like this. I
> used to work in Cedar Rapids and I had to beat the
> fags off with sticks whenever I stepped outside. It
> was terrible. And talk about the University of Iowa,
> fags, sodomites and butt pirates teaching classes and
> making passes at you. It got so bad you couldn't go
> into the student union without some butch dyke or
> limp-wristed pillow biter grabbin' your junk and
> tryin' to convert you to Satan's ways!  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Former Republican congressional candidate Jason
> > Werner tells us why
> > Our Lord and Savior flooded Cedar Rapids, Iowa:
> > 
> > I've been blaming the atrocity that occurred to
> > New Orleans by a
> > storm called Katrina on the area's sin. That city
> > was one of the most
> > corrupt cities I've ever toured, even more corrupt
> > than the
> > abomination of a little sodomite parade today in
> > Cleveland.
> > 
> > So I began wondering about Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
> > It's innocent Iowa.
> > What could possibly be wrong with an area in "God's
> > country".
> > 
> > I was going to release this on Monday of last
> > week, but I felt my
> > arrest was bigger news. 
> > 
> > Link: http://tinyurl.com/3nazk2
> > 
> > Anyway, I learned that Cedar Rapids was an absolute
> > city of
> > corruption. There are about 124,000 residents in the
> > actual city. And
> > in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17
> > casinos. Embryonic
> > stem-cell research is funded. Liberal governors have
> > run the state
> > into the ground for the past 20 years including a
> > former conservative
> > Republican many years ago. Human cloning is legal.
> > Referendums by the
> > citizens are often shot down. Spending for education
> > is the most
> > consistent increase of any issue. The University of
> > Iowa is among the
> > ten best colleges to party in the country. 
> > 
> > The University of Iowa is very homosexual-oriented.
> > Grinnell is
> > extremely homosexual-oriented. I found five blood
> > alleys in Cedar
> > Rapids. Homosexual organizations are very popular in
> > Cedar Rapids and
> > Des Moines. Prostitution and adult entertainment is
> > actually worse
> > than Cleveland, which has a population of nearly
> > 400,000. There were
> > nearly 100 bars in a radius of one mile although the
> > nearby college is
> > dry.
> > 
> > Links here:
> >
> http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/06/god-hates-cedar-rapids.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Or go to: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > 
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ubik

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> Rereading Philip K. Dick is like looking into the 
> future, only to realize that you've already seen it,
> back in the past. In this case, 29 years in the past.
> That's when I first discovered "Ubik." Having heard 
> about it via the science fiction grapevine, I read it 
> the first week after it was released. There are just 
> not that many novels based on the Tibetan Book of the 
> Dead, so you gotta grab 'em off the shelves before 
> the hungry ghosts get to them.
> 
> Even then it was ahead of its time. Heck, it's still
> ahead of *this* time, today. Much of SF is still try-
> ing to cope with psi and precog powers as everyday, 
> and yet back in 1969 Dick had so Been There, Done That
> with them that he had imagined and documented the
> inevitable *backlash* to telepaths and those who could 
> predict the future. That backlash manifests in the form 
> of "prudence organizations," the future psychic counter-
> part of the "privacy and security firms" that in our era 
> make a fortune protecting the wealthy from being bugged
> and eavesdropped upon electronically. 
> 
> It's just such a natural progression...why don't more
> SF writers get that? The moment a technology or ability
> appears that allows some people to monitor the thoughts 
> of others, there is "an equal and opposite reaction" in 
> the form of a need to *keep* these people from monitor-
> ing the thoughts of others.
> 
> That's the back story of "Ubik," the rough stage upon
> which the action is played out, or at least part of it. 
> Another important plot element that is taken for granted 
> in this future world is reincarnation and the Bardo exper-
> ience between lives. When you die, your relatives can have 
> you frozen to perpetuate this Bardo state. The "half-lifers" 
> have a kind of mental existence in the Bardo, and can be 
> awakened (for a fee, of course) to talk to their relatives 
> "from the other side."
> 
> Add to this a gorgeous young woman who can go back in
> time and re-dream the past such that it generates a 
> completely different present, a crack team of anti-psi
> operatives who would probably be more effective if they
> weren't dead, and you've got yerself a really enter-
> taining beach read. "Ubik" was called by Time magazine 
> one of the one hundred greatest English-language novels 
> of the 20th century. If you haven't ever read it, you 
> might like it.
> 
> Ubik -- it's a spray, it's a salve, it's a beer and a 
> coffee and a salad dressing. It's the eternal maker of
> worlds. Don't venture into the Bardo without it.
>

WEll, far be me to contradict your implicit claim that most sci-fi writers
don't "get" the point about backlash with psi-powers, but in fact, one
extremely important facet of the B5 story  was the Psi Corps.

Strazinksi certainly borrowed themes from many different writers for B5, 
including Doc Smith's Arisan vs Eddore theme in the Lensmen series,
and, plausibly, PK Dick's psionic powers themes from Ubik.

It's too bad you never could get into the series. its available online and I'm
rewatching it right now. The first 2 seasons are available via online commercial
TV at veoh.com, and sidereel.com has links to Japanese and other websites that
carry most of the rest of it.

Even nearly 15 years later, it holds up well. I especially like how timely the 
"Nightwatch" project  is. The recurring theme of facism rears its head in 
Nazi-ism, McCarthyism, as well as Rumsfeldism, and even 250 years in the future
with the Nightwatch, run by the Ministry of Peace, carefully watching for signs
of subversive influence, using talking points that sound straight out of the 
White House's Department of Homeland Security.

Lawson

Re: [FairfieldLife] God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[Peter]

--- "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> Former Republican congressional candidate Jason
> Werner tells us why
> Our Lord and Savior flooded Cedar Rapids, Iowa:
> 
> I've been blaming the atrocity that occurred to
> New Orleans by a
> storm called Katrina on the area's sin. That city
> was one of the most
> corrupt cities I've ever toured, even more corrupt
> than the
> abomination of a little sodomite parade today in
> Cleveland.
> 
> So I began wondering about Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
> It's innocent Iowa.
> What could possibly be wrong with an area in "God's
> country".
> 
> I was going to release this on Monday of last
> week, but I felt my
> arrest was bigger news. 
> 
> Link: 
> 
> Anyway, I learned that Cedar Rapids was an absolute
> city of
> corruption. There are about 124,000 residents in the
> actual city. And
> in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17
> casinos. Embryonic
> stem-cell research is funded. Liberal governors have
> run the state
> into the ground for the past 20 years including a
> former conservative
> Republican many years ago. Human cloning is legal.
> Referendums by the
> citizens are often shot down. Spending for education
> is the most
> consistent increase of any issue. The University of
> Iowa is among the
> ten best colleges to party in the country. The
> University of Iowa is
> very homosexual-oriented. Grinnell is extremely
> homosexual-oriented. I
> found five blood alleys in Cedar Rapids. Homosexual
> organizations are
> very popular in Cedar Rapids and Des Moines.
> Prostitution and adult
> entertainment is actually worse than Cleveland,
> which has a population
> of nearly 400,000. There were nearly 100 bars in a
> radius of one mile
> although the nearby college is dry.

What the hell is a "blood alley"? And why does a
former congressional candidate even know what that
means? It couldn't be..oh no..does it mean...does he
know about a rusty trombone too?
 






> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 



  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[Peter]

--- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > You gotta love these assholes who think like this.
> I
> > used to work in Cedar Rapids and I had to beat the
> > fags off with sticks whenever I stepped outside.
> It
> > was terrible. And talk about the University of
> Iowa,
> > fags, sodomites and butt pirates teaching classes
> and
> > making passes at you. It got so bad you couldn't
> go
> > into the student union without some butch dyke or
> > limp-wristed pillow biter grabbin' your junk and
> > tryin' to convert you to Satan's ways!  
> 
> Peter, I read the above just after walking
> home down the street I live on, which has
> turned into pillow biter heaven for the San
> Juan fiesta weekend. Nobody tried to grab
> my junk, but your post made me spit my beer
> out all over the screen. Thanks.

Sorry about your queer.. er beer, butt you're in
California now and God knows you have to guard your
junk from Satan spawn. Always keep one hand south, if
ya catch my drift, but take no pleasure from it!  





> 
> 
> 
> 
> > --- "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Former Republican congressional candidate Jason
> > > Werner tells us why
> > > Our Lord and Savior flooded Cedar Rapids, Iowa:
> > > 
> > > I've been blaming the atrocity that occurred
> to
> > > New Orleans by a
> > > storm called Katrina on the area's sin. That
> city
> > > was one of the most
> > > corrupt cities I've ever toured, even more
> corrupt
> > > than the
> > > abomination of a little sodomite parade today in
> > > Cleveland.
> > > 
> > > So I began wondering about Cedar Rapids,
> Iowa.
> > > It's innocent Iowa.
> > > What could possibly be wrong with an area in
> "God's
> > > country".
> > > 
> > > I was going to release this on Monday of
> last
> > > week, but I felt my
> > > arrest was bigger news. 
> > > 
> > > Link: http://tinyurl.com/3nazk2
> > > 
> > > Anyway, I learned that Cedar Rapids was an
> absolute
> > > city of
> > > corruption. There are about 124,000 residents in
> the
> > > actual city. And
> > > in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17
> > > casinos. Embryonic
> > > stem-cell research is funded. Liberal governors
> have
> > > run the state
> > > into the ground for the past 20 years including
> a
> > > former conservative
> > > Republican many years ago. Human cloning is
> legal.
> > > Referendums by the
> > > citizens are often shot down. Spending for
> education
> > > is the most
> > > consistent increase of any issue. The University
> of
> > > Iowa is among the
> > > ten best colleges to party in the country. 
> > > 
> > > The University of Iowa is very
> homosexual-oriented.
> > > Grinnell is
> > > extremely homosexual-oriented. I found five
> blood
> > > alleys in Cedar
> > > Rapids. Homosexual organizations are very
> popular in
> > > Cedar Rapids and
> > > Des Moines. Prostitution and adult entertainment
> is
> > > actually worse
> > > than Cleveland, which has a population of nearly
> > > 400,000. There were
> > > nearly 100 bars in a radius of one mile although
> the
> > > nearby college is
> > > dry.
> > > 
> > > Links here:
> > >
> >
>
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/06/god-hates-cedar-rapids.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > > Or go to: 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 



  

[FairfieldLife] Re: God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[do.rflex]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You gotta love these assholes who think like this. 


Yeah, it might be funny if these bigoted fundamentalists weren't so
influential in the public arena.


I
> used to work in Cedar Rapids and I had to beat the
> fags off with sticks whenever I stepped outside. It
> was terrible. And talk about the University of Iowa,
> fags, sodomites and butt pirates teaching classes and
> making passes at you. It got so bad you couldn't go
> into the student union without some butch dyke or
> limp-wristed pillow biter grabbin' your junk and
> tryin' to convert you to Satan's ways!  






> --- "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Former Republican congressional candidate Jason
> > Werner tells us why
> > Our Lord and Savior flooded Cedar Rapids, Iowa:
> > 
> > I've been blaming the atrocity that occurred to
> > New Orleans by a
> > storm called Katrina on the area's sin. That city
> > was one of the most
> > corrupt cities I've ever toured, even more corrupt
> > than the
> > abomination of a little sodomite parade today in
> > Cleveland.
> > 
> > So I began wondering about Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
> > It's innocent Iowa.
> > What could possibly be wrong with an area in "God's
> > country".
> > 
> > I was going to release this on Monday of last
> > week, but I felt my
> > arrest was bigger news. 
> > 
> > Link: http://tinyurl.com/3nazk2
> > 
> > Anyway, I learned that Cedar Rapids was an absolute
> > city of
> > corruption. There are about 124,000 residents in the
> > actual city. And
> > in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17
> > casinos. Embryonic
> > stem-cell research is funded. Liberal governors have
> > run the state
> > into the ground for the past 20 years including a
> > former conservative
> > Republican many years ago. Human cloning is legal.
> > Referendums by the
> > citizens are often shot down. Spending for education
> > is the most
> > consistent increase of any issue. The University of
> > Iowa is among the
> > ten best colleges to party in the country. 
> > 
> > The University of Iowa is very homosexual-oriented.
> > Grinnell is
> > extremely homosexual-oriented. I found five blood
> > alleys in Cedar
> > Rapids. Homosexual organizations are very popular in
> > Cedar Rapids and
> > Des Moines. Prostitution and adult entertainment is
> > actually worse
> > than Cleveland, which has a population of nearly
> > 400,000. There were
> > nearly 100 bars in a radius of one mile although the
> > nearby college is
> > dry.
> > 
> > Links here:
> >
> http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/06/god-hates-cedar-rapids.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ubik

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

Yeah,

I've been having some trouble with posts today. Operator error, no doubt. ;)

Yeah, I threw out a few titles I adore: The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, 
Radio Free 
Albemuth, The Man in the High Castle, some others I've forgotten.

I've been reading Dick since my teenage years. A sick, twisted genius! As one 
critic said, 
he's our Jorge Luis Borges.

I also threw out another name and wondered what you thought of Alfred Bester's 
work: 
The Stars My Destination, The Demolished Man. Another crazy man touched by 
genius. He 
also prefigured cyberpunk in the 1950s  and much of the next 50 years of great 
science 
fiction.

I had no idea you enjoyed this type of stuff. Yet another reason to admire you.

J.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> < emptiness >
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> It appears that you tried to reply to this post
> earlier, but sadly nothing came through. Just on
> the off chance that you intended to express your
> fondness for Philip K. Dick as well, here are a
> couple of tidbits of PKD trivia for you. 
> 
> Movies based on stories by PKD:
> 
> * Blade Runner ("Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?")
> * Total Recall ("We Can Remember It For You Wholesale")
> * Minority Report ("Minority Report")
> * Impostor ("Impostor")
> * Screamers ("Second Variety")
> * Morning Patrol ("Proini periolis," Greek, 1987)
> * Barjo ("Confessions of a Crap Artist")
> * A Scanner Darkly ("A Scanner Darkly")
> * Next ("The Golden Man")
> * Paycheck ("Paycheck")
> * Radio Free Albemuth (due in 2008)
> * Your Name Here (with PKD as a character, due in 2008)
> * The Owl In Daylight (biopic, due in 2009)
> * King of the Elves (due in 2012)
> 
> Plot summary of Radio Free Albemuth (from Wikipedia):
> 
> "In this alternate history the corrupt US President 
> Ferris F Fremont (FFF for 666, Number of the Beast) 
> becomes chief executive in sixties. The character 
> is best described as an amalgam of Joseph McCarthy 
> and Richard Nixon, who abrogates civil liberties 
> and human rights through positing a conspiracy 
> theory centered around a fictitious subversive 
> organisation known as "Aramchek". In addition to 
> this, he is associated with a right-wing populist 
> movement called 'Friends of the American People' 
> (Fappers).
> 
> "Ironically enough, the President's paranoia and 
> opportunism lead to the establishment of a real 
> resistance movement to him, which is organised, 
> through eponymous radio broadcasts from a mysterious 
> alien satellite, by a superintelligent, extrater-
> restrial, omnipotent being (or network) named VALIS.
> 
> As with its successor, VALIS, this novel is auto-
> biographical. Dick himself is a major character, 
> though fictitious protagonist Nicholas Brady serves 
> as a vehicle for Dick's alleged gnostic theophany 
> on February 11, 1974. In addition, Sadassa Silvia 
> is a character who claims that Ferris Fremont is 
> actually a communist covert agent, and that her 
> mother recruited him for the Soviet Union after 
> she joins the resistance.
> 
> As with Valis, the book deals with his highly-
> personal style of Christianity (or Gnosticism), 
> as well as with the moral repercussions of being 
> an informer for the authorities, and his dislike 
> of the Republican Party..."
> 
> 
> The film's website is smarmy and self-absorbed,
> so the movie might be crap. But even as crap, it's
> PKD's lone novel that went unpublished until after
> his death. So there's that. And Alanis Morissette
> plays the lead. So there's that, too.
> 
> The Owl In Daylight sounds to look forward to, as
> well. It's a biography of Philip K. Dick, as played
> by the brilliant Paul Giamatti. Given his work in
> American Splendor and Sideways and The Illusionist
> and Lady In The Water and the recent (and excellent)
> TV series John Adams, he's pretty much my choice to
> play Philip K. Dick onscreen. Kevin Spacey would
> have been interesting, but I suspect that Paul 
> Giamatti as PKD will be Oscar-worthy.
> 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Rereading Philip K. Dick is like looking into the
> > > future, only to realize that you've already seen it,
> > > back in the past. In this case, 29 years in the past.
> > > That's when I first discovered "Ubik." Having heard
> > > about it via the science fiction grapevine, I read it
> > > the first week after it was released. There are just
> > > not that many novels based on the Tibetan Book of the
> > > Dead, so you gotta grab 'em off the shelves before
> > > the hungry ghosts get to them.
> > >
> > > Even then it was ahead of its time. Heck, it's still
> > > ahead of *this* time, today. Much of SF is still try-
> > > ing to cope with psi and precog powers as everyday,
> > > and yet back in 1969 Dick had so Been There, Done That
> > > with them that he had imagined and documented the
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You gotta love these assholes who think like this. I
> used to work in Cedar Rapids and I had to beat the
> fags off with sticks whenever I stepped outside. It
> was terrible. And talk about the University of Iowa,
> fags, sodomites and butt pirates teaching classes and
> making passes at you. It got so bad you couldn't go
> into the student union without some butch dyke or
> limp-wristed pillow biter grabbin' your junk and
> tryin' to convert you to Satan's ways!  

Peter, I read the above just after walking
home down the street I live on, which has
turned into pillow biter heaven for the San
Juan fiesta weekend. Nobody tried to grab
my junk, but your post made me spit my beer
out all over the screen. Thanks.




> --- "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Former Republican congressional candidate Jason
> > Werner tells us why
> > Our Lord and Savior flooded Cedar Rapids, Iowa:
> > 
> > I've been blaming the atrocity that occurred to
> > New Orleans by a
> > storm called Katrina on the area's sin. That city
> > was one of the most
> > corrupt cities I've ever toured, even more corrupt
> > than the
> > abomination of a little sodomite parade today in
> > Cleveland.
> > 
> > So I began wondering about Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
> > It's innocent Iowa.
> > What could possibly be wrong with an area in "God's
> > country".
> > 
> > I was going to release this on Monday of last
> > week, but I felt my
> > arrest was bigger news. 
> > 
> > Link: http://tinyurl.com/3nazk2
> > 
> > Anyway, I learned that Cedar Rapids was an absolute
> > city of
> > corruption. There are about 124,000 residents in the
> > actual city. And
> > in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17
> > casinos. Embryonic
> > stem-cell research is funded. Liberal governors have
> > run the state
> > into the ground for the past 20 years including a
> > former conservative
> > Republican many years ago. Human cloning is legal.
> > Referendums by the
> > citizens are often shot down. Spending for education
> > is the most
> > consistent increase of any issue. The University of
> > Iowa is among the
> > ten best colleges to party in the country. 
> > 
> > The University of Iowa is very homosexual-oriented.
> > Grinnell is
> > extremely homosexual-oriented. I found five blood
> > alleys in Cedar
> > Rapids. Homosexual organizations are very popular in
> > Cedar Rapids and
> > Des Moines. Prostitution and adult entertainment is
> > actually worse
> > than Cleveland, which has a population of nearly
> > 400,000. There were
> > nearly 100 bars in a radius of one mile although the
> > nearby college is
> > dry.
> > 
> > Links here:
> >
> http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/06/god-hates-cedar-rapids.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Or go to: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > 
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

Judy,

Your thinking appears black/white.

I said "*an* unstated purpose", not my only purpose, was to offer an implicit 
comparison 
for involvement in other spiritual organizations.

My main purpose was as I stated to talk about reform in the TM Movement. 

As, I can't help but repeat, I've been talking about for 13 years.

Sometimes, Judy, I think you cherry pick minor points -- that you seem to 
misunderstand 
-- to make a grand case.

I also think you may overestimate your power. I can't think of anything you 
might say that 
would cause me "not to hang around." (Although my time is limited, so I can't 
promise I'll 
be as involved as I have been for the last couple of days.)

You *project* a number of "motivations" that I might have. I've experienced 
this in the 
past from you and have observed you do this frequently with others here and 
elsewhere.

I'm wondering if you can distinguish between your opinions and projections and 
the 
validity of someone else's view of the truth?

I am not attempting to get clients here. Generally, my clients come from 
referrals and 
google searches. Only a couple of times have people reached out to me from 
TM-Free 
Blog, for instance. To my knowledge, the Group posts are not searchable by 
Google.

I am not attempting to get hits on my websites here. Good thing! I've only seen 
two hits 
that originated from here in my webstats in the last couple of days.  (I can't 
really see how 
that would benefit me anyway. Advertising revenue is about $20/month. Covers 
the cost 
of running the sites.)

I *am* attempting to discuss reform in the TM movement.

And what *your* frequent posts on this topic achieve is keeping the topic 
floating near the 
top of the list on the message and front pages of this group.

So, many people are seeing the original post and the points I make.

That's fine by me.

J.

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
>  wrote:
> >
> [Vaj wrote:]
> > > What I enjoyed about your list was not that the TMO would
> > > ever consider actually doing these suggestions, that would
> > > be a "snowball's chance in hell". Instead they are valuable
> > > pointers for people leaving the TMO for what to look for
> > > in terms of honesty and integrity in any new spiritual or
> > > self-help org.
> > >
> > If I had any "hidden agenda," I suppose this was an unstated
> > purpose of my post. As I said, I'm not willing to settle for
> > less from any spiritual organization, but it the Catholic
> > Church, your local guru, or Scientology.
> > 
> > Thanks for bringing this background purpose of mine to the 
> > forefront.
> 
> I said earlier--to great disdain from Barry and John--
> that I didn't think John's intention in posting his
> list was to inspire folks to think about how the TMO
> might be reformed.
> 
> It appears I was correct.
> 
> I said in another post that I thought his intention
> was to pose a stark contrast to the TMO by listing
> the characteristics of an ideal organization.
> 
> That certainly would be a useful tool in his therapy
> sessions with clients who had left the TMO but were
> still uncertain as to whether they'd done the right
> thing.
> 
> It might even be a useful tool in acquiring new
> clients from among those who lurk on FFL, especially
> if he can get the regulars to complain about how far
> the TMO is from meeting these ideals, hopefully with
> horrible examples.
> 
> I don't think it's any accident that John has
> repeatedly pressured folks here to discuss his list.
> 
> He gave it a good shot, but he doesn't seem to have
> gathered enough useful responses to make it worth
> his time, so he's uploaded the list to the Files
> section.
> 
> Anybody want to bet how long he'll hang around now?
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[Peter]

You gotta love these assholes who think like this. I
used to work in Cedar Rapids and I had to beat the
fags off with sticks whenever I stepped outside. It
was terrible. And talk about the University of Iowa,
fags, sodomites and butt pirates teaching classes and
making passes at you. It got so bad you couldn't go
into the student union without some butch dyke or
limp-wristed pillow biter grabbin' your junk and
tryin' to convert you to Satan's ways!  




--- "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> Former Republican congressional candidate Jason
> Werner tells us why
> Our Lord and Savior flooded Cedar Rapids, Iowa:
> 
> I've been blaming the atrocity that occurred to
> New Orleans by a
> storm called Katrina on the area's sin. That city
> was one of the most
> corrupt cities I've ever toured, even more corrupt
> than the
> abomination of a little sodomite parade today in
> Cleveland.
> 
> So I began wondering about Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
> It's innocent Iowa.
> What could possibly be wrong with an area in "God's
> country".
> 
> I was going to release this on Monday of last
> week, but I felt my
> arrest was bigger news. 
> 
> Link: http://tinyurl.com/3nazk2
> 
> Anyway, I learned that Cedar Rapids was an absolute
> city of
> corruption. There are about 124,000 residents in the
> actual city. And
> in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17
> casinos. Embryonic
> stem-cell research is funded. Liberal governors have
> run the state
> into the ground for the past 20 years including a
> former conservative
> Republican many years ago. Human cloning is legal.
> Referendums by the
> citizens are often shot down. Spending for education
> is the most
> consistent increase of any issue. The University of
> Iowa is among the
> ten best colleges to party in the country. 
> 
> The University of Iowa is very homosexual-oriented.
> Grinnell is
> extremely homosexual-oriented. I found five blood
> alleys in Cedar
> Rapids. Homosexual organizations are very popular in
> Cedar Rapids and
> Des Moines. Prostitution and adult entertainment is
> actually worse
> than Cleveland, which has a population of nearly
> 400,000. There were
> nearly 100 bars in a radius of one mile although the
> nearby college is
> dry.
> 
> Links here:
>
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/06/god-hates-cedar-rapids.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 



  

[FairfieldLife] Re: A break from spirituality

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Stu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Its unfortunate but my first post here in months is this link:
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25265056/?GT1=43001

Oh, we've missed you, dude. I feel like channeling
Steve Martin in L.A. Story and saying, "Well, thank 
you for a lovely lunch and enema."  :-)

So how're things hanging on Pushing Daisies, eh? 
You know that you've got several hard-core addicts
out here Jonesing, right? If I don't get a Chuck 
fix soon I don't know what I'm going to do. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

> 
> I beg your pardon !
>  
> Maharishi's life was one big charity from beginning to end. He 
> sacrified His whole life for mankind to create the gloriuous future we 
> are about to enjoy.
> 
> "It was a sacrifice of life to leave the Himalayas. But necessary to 
> bring about this new, golden age for mankind."
> 
> - Maharishi, Boppard, Germany, 1982

Hmm, we seriously disagree on this point.

What did he give up? Sacrifice entails giving up something for something else 
-- typically 
a greater good.

The Maharishi may or may not have achieved a "glorious future." Time will tell, 
I imagine.

But he did very well for himself and his family materially.

I do not know of another failed physicist who ran an empire worth billions. And 
enjoyed 
every material comfort in his life.

Wait! There is Bill Gates. But his isn't a spiritual empire.

Are you aware of one of humanity's many great spiritual voices who made 
material success 
a main point of his career?

Jesus? Buddha? Mohammed? Confucius? 

There are Christian preachers who teach that material success is a sign of 
spiritual 
attainment. There may be others. 

But I'm not aware that any of them are considered great spiritual leaders by a 
significant 
portion of humanity.

J.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ubik

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


< emptiness >


John,

It appears that you tried to reply to this post
earlier, but sadly nothing came through. Just on
the off chance that you intended to express your
fondness for Philip K. Dick as well, here are a
couple of tidbits of PKD trivia for you. 

Movies based on stories by PKD:

* Blade Runner ("Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?")
* Total Recall ("We Can Remember It For You Wholesale")
* Minority Report ("Minority Report")
* Impostor ("Impostor")
* Screamers ("Second Variety")
* Morning Patrol ("Proini periolis," Greek, 1987)
* Barjo ("Confessions of a Crap Artist")
* A Scanner Darkly ("A Scanner Darkly")
* Next ("The Golden Man")
* Paycheck ("Paycheck")
* Radio Free Albemuth (due in 2008)
* Your Name Here (with PKD as a character, due in 2008)
* The Owl In Daylight (biopic, due in 2009)
* King of the Elves (due in 2012)

Plot summary of Radio Free Albemuth (from Wikipedia):

"In this alternate history the corrupt US President 
Ferris F Fremont (FFF for 666, Number of the Beast) 
becomes chief executive in sixties. The character 
is best described as an amalgam of Joseph McCarthy 
and Richard Nixon, who abrogates civil liberties 
and human rights through positing a conspiracy 
theory centered around a fictitious subversive 
organisation known as "Aramchek". In addition to 
this, he is associated with a right-wing populist 
movement called 'Friends of the American People' 
(Fappers).

"Ironically enough, the President's paranoia and 
opportunism lead to the establishment of a real 
resistance movement to him, which is organised, 
through eponymous radio broadcasts from a mysterious 
alien satellite, by a superintelligent, extrater-
restrial, omnipotent being (or network) named VALIS.

As with its successor, VALIS, this novel is auto-
biographical. Dick himself is a major character, 
though fictitious protagonist Nicholas Brady serves 
as a vehicle for Dick's alleged gnostic theophany 
on February 11, 1974. In addition, Sadassa Silvia 
is a character who claims that Ferris Fremont is 
actually a communist covert agent, and that her 
mother recruited him for the Soviet Union after 
she joins the resistance.

As with Valis, the book deals with his highly-
personal style of Christianity (or Gnosticism), 
as well as with the moral repercussions of being 
an informer for the authorities, and his dislike 
of the Republican Party..."


The film's website is smarmy and self-absorbed,
so the movie might be crap. But even as crap, it's
PKD's lone novel that went unpublished until after
his death. So there's that. And Alanis Morissette
plays the lead. So there's that, too.

The Owl In Daylight sounds to look forward to, as
well. It's a biography of Philip K. Dick, as played
by the brilliant Paul Giamatti. Given his work in
American Splendor and Sideways and The Illusionist
and Lady In The Water and the recent (and excellent)
TV series John Adams, he's pretty much my choice to
play Philip K. Dick onscreen. Kevin Spacey would
have been interesting, but I suspect that Paul 
Giamatti as PKD will be Oscar-worthy.


> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Rereading Philip K. Dick is like looking into the
> > future, only to realize that you've already seen it,
> > back in the past. In this case, 29 years in the past.
> > That's when I first discovered "Ubik." Having heard
> > about it via the science fiction grapevine, I read it
> > the first week after it was released. There are just
> > not that many novels based on the Tibetan Book of the
> > Dead, so you gotta grab 'em off the shelves before
> > the hungry ghosts get to them.
> >
> > Even then it was ahead of its time. Heck, it's still
> > ahead of *this* time, today. Much of SF is still try-
> > ing to cope with psi and precog powers as everyday,
> > and yet back in 1969 Dick had so Been There, Done That
> > with them that he had imagined and documented the
> > inevitable *backlash* to telepaths and those who could
> > predict the future. That backlash manifests in the form
> > of "prudence organizations," the future psychic counter-
> > part of the "privacy and security firms" that in our era
> > make a fortune protecting the wealthy from being bugged
> > and eavesdropped upon electronically.
> >
> > It's just such a natural progression...why don't more
> > SF writers get that? The moment a technology or ability
> > appears that allows some people to monitor the thoughts
> > of others, there is "an equal and opposite reaction" in
> > the form of a need to *keep* these people from monitor-
> > ing the thoughts of others.
> >
> > That's the back story of "Ubik," the rough stage upon
> > which the action is played out, or at least part of it.
> > Another important plot element that is taken for granted
> > in this future world is reincarnation and the Bardo exper-
> > ience between lives. When you die, your relatives can have
> > you froz

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

> John
> 
> I was referring to you. You gave up TM how many years ago yet it seems
> to have quite a grip on you now.
> 
> Instead of just moving on with your life, even though you may not be
> participating in the TM world/programs, you are spending quite a bit
> of time in TM world via all these discussions.
> 
> KN

KN,

Couple of things.

Moving on doesn't mean forgetting. At least in any meaning of "moving on" that 
I'm aware 
of.

Taking responsibility for the happiness, comfort, and productivity of one's 
life -- from this 
point forward -- is my idea of moving on.

Do you disagree?

Making a career out of helping people who experienced damage to oneself is 
considered 
noble in many quarters. Whether it is or not, many people find helping others 
very 
fulfilling. I know I do. It's my career.

Most mental health professionals that I know are either recovering from 
challenges 
themselves or have a close relative who has suffered mental illness or abuse. 
Every cult 
counselor I know either left a cultic relationship  or had a family member 
involved in one.

But my career is only part of my life. 

I have a very full life. 

I'm married, three step-kids, two grandchildren, read science fiction, listen 
to Leonard 
Cohen and Emily Lou Harris and Neil Young, raise chocolate labs, garden, a 
career I really 
love, play Scrabble, download music, have a rich spiritual life, meet my 
financial 
obligations, have tons of friends, have many people I love, have ties to my 
upstate New 
York community, have an interest in progressive politics.

I also enjoy discussing my take on TM and the Movement with others who find it 
interesting. 

To do otherwise would be a form of character suicide, I think. TM was the most 
important 
thing in my life for 23 years. I have wonderful memories of my time in TM. I 
know 
extraordinary people in TM. 

I very much want to keep those memories lively in my life. 

One of my criticisms of some cult counselors is that they encourage cutting out 
any 
connection to one's old group. I think this is black/white thinking: "ugh, cult 
bad, noncult 
good, ugh."

In my life -- and practice -- I encourage *integration.* Keeping the best of 
the group, no 
matter how abusive, *consciously* discarding the parts that no longer meet your 
needs, 
never forgetting.

I think cutting out that time in my life would impoverish my life. And probably 
wouldn't 
be healthy.

I am very pleased with the fullness of my life. I wish the same for anyone 
reading this 
post!

My TM involvement is a small part of my life.

That's one answer to your concern.

Another is: What difference does it make? My character flaws really have no 
bearing 
whatsoever on what I have to say.

Martin Luther King was a womanizer. Yet he accomplished great things.

I'm neither a womanizer nor have I accomplished anything great. But my flaws, 
and I have 
many, do not obscure the little I do achieve.

Do you believe you can't learn from someone who has serious character defects?

I feel I learned from everyone in my life. Certainly including the Maharishi. 

The world just isn't black and white.

Concern about my character just serves to distract from my one substantive post 
here on 
reform in the TM movement.

J.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kenny H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John
>
> I was referring to you. You gave up TM how many years ago yet it seems
> to have quite a grip on you now.
>
> Instead of just moving on with your life, even though you may not be
> participating in the TM world/programs, you are spending quite a bit
> of time in TM world via all these discussions.
>
> KN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  than it could havse--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M.
> Knapp, LMSW" jmknapp53@ wrote:
> >
> > > You are a therapist? Would you recommend that a patient, once he
saw
> > > the error of his ways, spend the next 20 years wallowing in it?
> >
> > Sorry, KH, I'm not following your thought here. I suggest that no
> one "wallow in it."
> > Certainly not clients in my practice.
> >
> > My clients and I typically spend about 4 sessions or so talking
> about the processes that
> > may have been present in their group. Then we spend 4 or so sessions
> practicing simple
> > cognitive behavioral techniques to help cope with any lingering
> mental, emotional, social,
> > or spiritual challenges they may be facing.
> >
> > For most that's it. Some few clients choose to work longer. Some
> choose to work less.
> >
> > If you have an interest, check out
> http://knappfamilycounseling.com/cultdefine.html or
> > http://knappfamilycounseling.com/razor.html where I talk about the
> dangers of dwelling
> > on "blaming the cult."
> >
> > In my work, I say blame is largely about the past: Who did what to
> whom when. It doesn't
> > bring about change.
> >
> > I emphasize responsibility, which is about the future. No matter
> what happened to a client
> > in the past, only the client can take responsibility for changing
> his or her life.
> >
> > As to my wallowing in it personally, if that was your meaning, TM is
> a relatively small part
> > of my life -- and has been for some time. That's why I let the
> trancenet.net domain
> > registration lapse. (I brought it back because I received a number
> of requests to do so.)
> >
> > I would say less than a third of my current clients were involved
> with TM. These days the
> > largest group were involved with various Bible-based groups.
> >
> > But some people do feel called to being an activist. Nearly every
> religion has an active
> > reform group. Do you feel the fellows who founded SNAP, who seek
> justice for children
> > molested in the Catholic Church, should just get over it?
> >
> > They're an inspiration to many in and out of the Catholic Church.
> >
> > My influence is a tiny fraction of theirs, I know. But I do what I
> can. I wish I were more
> > gifted. But we all work with the cards we're dealt.
> >
> > Being a cult activist is not something I recommend to anyone. In
> fact, quite the opposite. I
> > recommend to my clients that they avoid replacing the high-intensity
> of their group with
> > the high-intensity of cult activism for at least a year after
> leaving their group. I think it's
> > important that people rediscover their authentic selves before
> rushing off into a new
> > cause.
> >
> > I was offered this advice way back in 1995 as I was leaving TM. I
> wish I had taken it. My
> > exit from TM was messy and painful. I think many of my more
> over-the-top writings at
> > that time would have been quite different if I had looked to my own
> needs and challenges
> > before rushing off into the Internet wars.
> >
> > But what's past is past. I've tried to be more temperate in the last
> 8 years or so.
> >
> > J.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> He wasn't big on charity, but he did teach the suturas "friendliness, 
compassion, 
> happiness" as the first, and perhaps most important, TM-Sidhis.


I beg your pardon !
 
Maharishi's life was one big charity from beginning to end. He 
sacrified His whole life for mankind to create the gloriuous future we 
are about to enjoy.

"It was a sacrifice of life to leave the Himalayas. But necessary to 
bring about this new, golden age for mankind."

- Maharishi, Boppard, Germany, 1982

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kenny H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John
>
> I was referring to you. You gave up TM how many years ago yet it seems
> to have quite a grip on you now.
>
> Instead of just moving on with your life, even though you may not be
> participating in the TM world/programs, you are spending quite a bit
> of time in TM world via all these discussions.
>
> KN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  than it could havse--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M.
> Knapp, LMSW" jmknapp53@ wrote:
> >
> > > You are a therapist? Would you recommend that a patient, once he
saw
> > > the error of his ways, spend the next 20 years wallowing in it?
> >
> > Sorry, KH, I'm not following your thought here. I suggest that no
> one "wallow in it."
> > Certainly not clients in my practice.
> >
> > My clients and I typically spend about 4 sessions or so talking
> about the processes that
> > may have been present in their group. Then we spend 4 or so sessions
> practicing simple
> > cognitive behavioral techniques to help cope with any lingering
> mental, emotional, social,
> > or spiritual challenges they may be facing.
> >
> > For most that's it. Some few clients choose to work longer. Some
> choose to work less.
> >
> > If you have an interest, check out
> http://knappfamilycounseling.com/cultdefine.html or
> > http://knappfamilycounseling.com/razor.html where I talk about the
> dangers of dwelling
> > on "blaming the cult."
> >
> > In my work, I say blame is largely about the past: Who did what to
> whom when. It doesn't
> > bring about change.
> >
> > I emphasize responsibility, which is about the future. No matter
> what happened to a client
> > in the past, only the client can take responsibility for changing
> his or her life.
> >
> > As to my wallowing in it personally, if that was your meaning, TM is
> a relatively small part
> > of my life -- and has been for some time. That's why I let the
> trancenet.net domain
> > registration lapse. (I brought it back because I received a number
> of requests to do so.)
> >
> > I would say less than a third of my current clients were involved
> with TM. These days the
> > largest group were involved with various Bible-based groups.
> >
> > But some people do feel called to being an activist. Nearly every
> religion has an active
> > reform group. Do you feel the fellows who founded SNAP, who seek
> justice for children
> > molested in the Catholic Church, should just get over it?
> >
> > They're an inspiration to many in and out of the Catholic Church.
> >
> > My influence is a tiny fraction of theirs, I know. But I do what I
> can. I wish I were more
> > gifted. But we all work with the cards we're dealt.
> >
> > Being a cult activist is not something I recommend to anyone. In
> fact, quite the opposite. I
> > recommend to my clients that they avoid replacing the high-intensity
> of their group with
> > the high-intensity of cult activism for at least a year after
> leaving their group. I think it's
> > important that people rediscover their authentic selves before
> rushing off into a new
> > cause.
> >
> > I was offered this advice way back in 1995 as I was leaving TM. I
> wish I had taken it. My
> > exit from TM was messy and painful. I think many of my more
> over-the-top writings at
> > that time would have been quite different if I had looked to my own
> needs and challenges
> > before rushing off into the Internet wars.
> >
> > But what's past is past. I've tried to be more temperate in the last
> 8 years or so.
> >
> > J.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] A break from spirituality

[Stu]

Its unfortunate but my first post here in months is this link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25265056/?GT1=43001

[FairfieldLife] Crop Circle, Wiltshire, 20. June 2008

[nablusoss1008]

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/furze/furze2008.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've just been googling to try and find the story
> I'm talking about but can't find it for all the
> other tales of contaminants in ayurvedic products!
> Who'd have thought it. 
> 
> The story I'm looking for is about an American woman
> who was seriously ill with MP while pregnant due to
> MAP stuff bought in India, she is currnetly suing
> the TMO in America. Not sure how far that will get her.
> I'll have another look later, if I find it I'll post it.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/169019

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

> If that is the case, why do you write whiny-child "I'm a victim" crap
> like the following, which appears under your name on trancenet:
> 

I'm sure I don't understand you.

To say the Maharishi lied, which I believe he did, does not portray me as a 
victim as far as I 
can see.

One can object to the unethical, immoral, hurtful, dangerous, etc. actions of 
another -- 
particularly a public figure -- without being victimized.

Wouldn't you agree that calling the Catholic Church to task for their actions 
over priest 
molestations is a good thing to do?

Being a victim, to my way of thinking, involves blaming another for damage 
WITHOUT 
taking responsibility for making a change in one's own life.

I don't think I've ever advocated anything like not taking responsibility for 
the direction of 
one's life -- no matter how abused one has been in the past. 

But who knows? I've written tens of thousands of words in the last 13 years on 
these 
subjects. I know there are contradictions in what I've written.

I know I've changed my character, opinions, and actions greatly since I first 
started 
publishing in anger on the old AMT or trancenet.net.

I can't change the past. I *can* apologize and make amends as best I'm able. 

And if you point out a contradiction or hurtful action, I'd make it my 
responsibility to 
apologize and make amends. In the present.

J.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 

> And I believe it's virtually 
> impossible to know a person on the basis of their writings or public
actions.

Quite true. However that doesn't stop many on FFL in conducting
in-depth diagnosis of many "perceived" inner ailments. Perhaps those
so engaged cannot help but see via light shining from themselves.

[FairfieldLife] Rock-On Iowa (Re: God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa)

[new . morning]

And the naysayers said the ME is not working! Rock-On Iowa!

> in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17 casinos. 
> Embryonic  stem-cell research is funded. 
> Liberal governors ...
> Human cloning is legal. 
> Referendums by the citizens are often shot down. 
> Spending for education is the most consistent increase of any issue.
> > The University of Iowa is among the ten best colleges to party in
the country. 
> The University of Iowa is very homosexual-oriented. 
> Prostitution and adult entertainment is actually [more] than Cleveland
> There were nearly 100 bars in a radius of one mile although the
nearby college 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[feste37]

In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M.
> Knapp, LMSW"  wrote:
 
> > If you have an interest, check out
> http://knappfamilycounseling.com/cultdefine.html or 
> > http://knappfamilycounseling.com/razor.html where I talk about the
> dangers of dwelling 
> > on "blaming the cult."

If that is the case, why do you write whiny-child "I'm a victim" crap
like the following, which appears under your name on trancenet:

On Promises & Lies
Let's talk about promises:

Maharishi promised to teach me a simple, effortless technique with
absolutely no mental or physical side effects.

He lied.

MMY promised I would never need to learn another technique to realize
all the benefits of TM.

He lied.

MMY promised that I would never have to learn a philosophy, join a
religion, change my lifestyle, learn weird physical exercises, change
my diet, and so forth.

He lied.

MMY promised me enlightenment in 5 to 7 years.

He lied.

MMY promised that as a teacher I would be representing the highest
good that mankind has ever known and contribute to the enlightenment
of mankind.

He lied.

MMY promised to teach me to fly.

He lied.

MMY promised me eternal life.

He lied.

MMY promised that if I continued to volunteer my labor for the good of
the TM movement, all my material needs and desires would be fulfilled.

He lied. In fact, he stole when he rescinded the thousands of dollars
of TM course credit that I worked 70 hour weeks to earn as a
"volunteer" at one of his numerous academies.

MMY promised me that the puja and mantras I used to teach my family
meditation were not religious in nature.

He lied.

MMY swore he represented an ancient teaching passed down from his
Master and his Master before that.

He lied.

MMY promised to enlighten the world.

He lied.

MMY walked away with $3.5 billion dollars.

I walked away with a fistful of character assasination.

The score hardly seems even.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 22, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Hugo wrote:
> 

> 


> > Another case that you might have heard about ayurveda is
> > the mercury poisoning somebody had from MAV products bought
> > in India, they are currently suing the TMO, haven't heard
> > anymore about it but shall copy it over if I hear anything
> > new.
> 
> Yeah, there's a number of source for such a thing, so it can be 
hard  
> to sort out. For example many Ayurvedic preparations, esp. "siddha  
> medicines" and rasa preparations, contain "humanized" mercury 
products  
> which are believed to be safe, if prepared properly. It's the 
prepared  
> properly part that in a third world country can get you killed.  
> Another source of mercury and heavy metals can obtained from  
> disreputable ayurvedic drug companies who get herbs from old  
> industrial sites or riverbanks near industrial sites where heavy  
> metals may be found. This is also a known issue with Chinese  
> medicines. On top of this consider that these herbs are then 
greatly  
> concentrated to form extracts.
> 
> > Strangely enough, an old girlfriend of mine had a friend
> > who was a real TMer, been on Mother Divine and lived the
> > whole movement thing, right diet, channel on all day etc
> > etc. She got mercury poisoning about ten years ago. I was
> > amazed that someone as clean living could have got ill
> > like that. It seemed a genuine puzzle, I guess I know now.
> 
> It was be interesting to know whether or not she relied solely on 
MAPI  
> products or not.

I can say with almost %100 certainty that it would
be all MAP stuff because people I know who are *that* 
into the movement wouldn't take an inferior product to
the TMOs. Which could be a deadly irony.

But I remember the TMO being proud of their product
purity and that they had even got preparations through
the, apparently highly strict, Australian drug importation
laws. If these stories are true and apparently MAP stuff 
she had was tested as having dangerously high levels of
mercury, sounds like something has gone terribly wrong
somewhere.


> > I don't know how the sorry tale ended because I lost
> > contact with my friend. But unbelievable eh?
> 
> Actually VERY believable. I know I myself could just have easily  
> poisoned myself using such products. I now only use Ayurvedic 
products  
> from reputable companies and forego all Chinese herbal medicines.


I've just been googling to try and find the story
I'm talking about but can't find it for all the
other tales of contaminants in ayurvedic products!
Who'd have thought it. 

The story I'm looking for is about an American woman
who was seriously ill with MP while pregnant due to
MAP stuff bought in India, she is currnetly suing
the TMO in America. Not sure how far that will get her.
I'll have another look later, if I find it I'll post it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[Vaj]

On Jun 22, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Hugo wrote:


We've talked about this before here Hugo. One of the disturbing

things

is the blank slate recommendation of Amrit Kalash in patients
undergoing chemo and radiation therapy, to make them more
"comfortable". The disturbing thing is that one of the primary
ingredients in Amrit Kalash paste is the Indian fruit, "amla"

(emblica

officinalis). Amla is a fruit that has over a thousand times the

free-

radical scavenging activity that vitamin C has. But that's not the
disturbing part. The disturbing part is that this will interfere

with

certain mechanisms of tumor necrosis. In other words, they

potentially

shunt the effectiveness of Oncological radiation therapy and

certain

chemotherapies whose mechanism of action is free radical damage.



Thanks for the info, I'm glad others have noticed this, it's
rare to get people in the TMO to comment on anything that
flies in the face of the recieved wisdom. Usually things are
rationalised in some way like it's your karma or you have a
bad chart. Or. most likely, not talked about at all.


Yes, so true.

This is really just scraping the surface, but also consider the known  
relationship between estrogen replacement therapy and breast cancer.  
What happens to women who develop breast CA while taking certain plant  
estrogens or women who are genetically predisposed to breast cancer  
and are imbibing plant estrogens? There's always the danger that the  
presence of such compounds can accelerate tumor growth.





Imagine having a tumor or tumors growing throughout your body then
being giving treatment to destroy those specific tissues--but then
because a guru authority figure (or his followers) suggest false
information on an "Ayurvedic snakeoil", you unknowingly forestall

your

own therapy and reduce or eliminate it's real effectiveness by

taking

the recommended herbal preparation. What happens? You do not heal:

you

die a slow death.



I know someone doing just this and I really feel for them,
it will be too late if they don't go to a proper doctor
soon. A big risk to take but faith is powerful. I've said
they should maybe try both chemo and ayurveda just so they
can get some help but it sounds like that might not work
either.


I've seen a number of cases like this, it's often difficult to argue  
with people who hold such irrational magical beliefs, esp. when  
indoctrinated along with hypnosis-like meditation techniques.



I find that I can't criticise them too much, they are so
steeped in the belief system and sound so convinced they
are doing the right thing for themselves, even though
it's life and death you have to respect peoples right to
do their own thing. All I can do is offer an opinion. I
think there is a crime being committed here.


Oh, most definitely. Like I say, this movement has some blood on it's  
hands.






When I make the claim that the Maharishi has blood on his hands,

this

is one of the reasons (above and beyond the suicides, etc.). IMO,
those members of the TM org or it's zealous followers, who

recommend

these herbal products without proper knowledge of tumor necrosis
mechanisms and the corresponding mechanisms of the herbal

compounds

themselves should be brought up on charges of practicing medicine
without a license, at the very least.



Another case that you might have heard about ayurveda is
the mercury poisoning somebody had from MAV products bought
in India, they are currently suing the TMO, haven't heard
anymore about it but shall copy it over if I hear anything
new.


Yeah, there's a number of source for such a thing, so it can be hard  
to sort out. For example many Ayurvedic preparations, esp. "siddha  
medicines" and rasa preparations, contain "humanized" mercury products  
which are believed to be safe, if prepared properly. It's the prepared  
properly part that in a third world country can get you killed.  
Another source of mercury and heavy metals can obtained from  
disreputable ayurvedic drug companies who get herbs from old  
industrial sites or riverbanks near industrial sites where heavy  
metals may be found. This is also a known issue with Chinese  
medicines. On top of this consider that these herbs are then greatly  
concentrated to form extracts.



Strangely enough, an old girlfriend of mine had a friend
who was a real TMer, been on Mother Divine and lived the
whole movement thing, right diet, channel on all day etc
etc. She got mercury poisoning about ten years ago. I was
amazed that someone as clean living could have got ill
like that. It seemed a genuine puzzle, I guess I know now.


It was be interesting to know whether or not she relied solely on MAPI  
products or not.



I don't know how the sorry tale ended because I lost
contact with my friend. But unbelievable eh?


Actually VERY believable. I know I myself could just have easily  
poisoned myself using such products. I now only use Ayurvedic products  
from reputable companies and forego a

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
[Vaj wrote:]
> > What I enjoyed about your list was not that the TMO would
> > ever consider actually doing these suggestions, that would
> > be a "snowball's chance in hell". Instead they are valuable
> > pointers for people leaving the TMO for what to look for
> > in terms of honesty and integrity in any new spiritual or
> > self-help org.
> >
> If I had any "hidden agenda," I suppose this was an unstated
> purpose of my post. As I said, I'm not willing to settle for
> less from any spiritual organization, but it the Catholic
> Church, your local guru, or Scientology.
> 
> Thanks for bringing this background purpose of mine to the 
> forefront.

I said earlier--to great disdain from Barry and John--
that I didn't think John's intention in posting his
list was to inspire folks to think about how the TMO
might be reformed.

It appears I was correct.

I said in another post that I thought his intention
was to pose a stark contrast to the TMO by listing
the characteristics of an ideal organization.

That certainly would be a useful tool in his therapy
sessions with clients who had left the TMO but were
still uncertain as to whether they'd done the right
thing.

It might even be a useful tool in acquiring new
clients from among those who lurk on FFL, especially
if he can get the regulars to complain about how far
the TMO is from meeting these ideals, hopefully with
horrible examples.

I don't think it's any accident that John has
repeatedly pressured folks here to discuss his list.

He gave it a good shot, but he doesn't seem to have
gathered enough useful responses to make it worth
his time, so he's uploaded the list to the Files
section.

Anybody want to bet how long he'll hang around now?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[Kenny H]

John

I was referring to you. You gave up TM how many years ago yet it seems
to have quite a grip on you now.

Instead of just moving on with your life, even though you may not be
participating in the TM world/programs, you are spending quite a bit
of time in TM world via all these discussions.

KN






 than it could havse--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M.
Knapp, LMSW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > You are a therapist? Would you recommend that a patient, once he saw
> > the error of his ways, spend the next 20 years wallowing in it? 
> 
> Sorry, KH, I'm not following your thought here. I suggest that no
one "wallow in it." 
> Certainly not clients in my practice. 
> 
> My clients and I typically spend about 4 sessions or so talking
about the processes that 
> may have been present in their group. Then we spend 4 or so sessions
practicing simple 
> cognitive behavioral techniques to help cope with any lingering
mental, emotional, social, 
> or spiritual challenges they may be facing.
> 
> For most that's it. Some few clients choose to work longer. Some
choose to work less.
> 
> If you have an interest, check out
http://knappfamilycounseling.com/cultdefine.html or 
> http://knappfamilycounseling.com/razor.html where I talk about the
dangers of dwelling 
> on "blaming the cult."
> 
> In my work, I say blame is largely about the past: Who did what to
whom when. It doesn't 
> bring about change.
> 
> I emphasize responsibility, which is about the future. No matter
what happened to a client 
> in the past, only the client can take responsibility for changing
his or her life.
> 
> As to my wallowing in it personally, if that was your meaning, TM is
a relatively small part 
> of my life -- and has been for some time. That's why I let the
trancenet.net domain 
> registration lapse. (I brought it back because I received a number
of requests to do so.)
> 
> I would say less than a third of my current clients were involved
with TM. These days the 
> largest group were involved with various Bible-based groups. 
> 
> But some people do feel called to being an activist. Nearly every
religion has an active 
> reform group. Do you feel the fellows who founded SNAP, who seek
justice for children 
> molested in the Catholic Church, should just get over it?
> 
> They're an inspiration to many in and out of the Catholic Church.
> 
> My influence is a tiny fraction of theirs, I know. But I do what I
can. I wish I were more 
> gifted. But we all work with the cards we're dealt.
> 
> Being a cult activist is not something I recommend to anyone. In
fact, quite the opposite. I 
> recommend to my clients that they avoid replacing the high-intensity
of their group with 
> the high-intensity of cult activism for at least a year after
leaving their group. I think it's 
> important that people rediscover their authentic selves before
rushing off into a new 
> cause.
> 
> I was offered this advice way back in 1995 as I was leaving TM. I
wish I had taken it. My 
> exit from TM was messy and painful. I think many of my more
over-the-top writings at 
> that time would have been quite different if I had looked to my own
needs and challenges 
> before rushing off into the Internet wars.
> 
> But what's past is past. I've tried to be more temperate in the last
8 years or so.
> 
> J.
>

[FairfieldLife] How many pundits are in FF and MVC now?

[off_world_beings]

How many pundits are in FF and MVC now?



OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Congress Prepares to GUT the Fourth Amendment

[do.rflex]

    INVINCIBLE AMERICA  

Is the USA becoming like the old USSR where the government spies on
its own citizens with impunity - and the telecommunications industry
has become nothing more than a contracted puppet instrument of the
state funded with your tax dollars?

Keith Olbermann and Jonathan Turley discuss what's going on with this
criminal immunity bill in Congress...

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2MpyODTLnY

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> 
> > > (There's a *lot* more to the dismissal of the suit;
> > > it would take me quite awhile to even outline it.)
> > 
> > If you have any links I'd be interested to take a look.
> 
> Aiee. The problem is the various pieces of it are
> scattered throughout many dozens of posts on alt.m.t
> over a couple of years as the story gradually unfolded
> (Skolnick dragging his feet the whole way). I'll see
> if I can figure out a way to put all the relevant
> facts in a few paragraphs, but I can't do it right now.


Fair enough, If you do get time that would be cool.

 
> 
>  because all this is simply folk medicine with no
> > actual known results to back up it's claims so why is it
> > considered such a big deal by the TMO, it's only because
> > it's ancient and Indian.
> 
> Some cancer patients apparently did have good results
> using MA-V as adjunctive therapy to mitigate the side
> effects of chemo and radiation. As you probably know,
> mitigating side effects isn't just a matter of making
> life more pleasant for the cancer patient; in some cases
> the side effects themselves are life-threatening, and
> in other cases they're so debilitating that the patient
> refuses further treatment. The only thing to do in such
> cases is to reduce the therapeutic dosage of chemo and
> radiation, which means the therapy is less effective
> against the cancer.
> 
> So anything that can reduce the side effects is making
> a major contribution to the potential success of the
> medical therapy.

I can't deny it's interesting but it seems that a lot
of co-operation would have to take place between doctors,
I hope they are looking into it, might have helped my
friends and many more besides. I do think the Vedic
worship in the TMO has a lot to answer for, I don't
see blind faith as useful, ever.

 
> (There's an associated Skolnick story here, which again
> I don't have time now to relate but may get around to
> later on.)


If you post it, I'll read it. 

> > 
> > > Remember who he was working for at the time.
> > 
> > Conspiracy? Paid off by the big-pharma to rubbish
> > MAV? Big claims. Be careful, you could get sued.
> 
> Um, didn't suggest any such thing, Hugo. He was
> working for an official publication of the American
> Medical Association, which has an obvious interest
> in debunking nonmedical therapies. Any committed
> employee of a company or organization is going to
> want to do what s/he can to advance his or her
> employer's interests. Skolnick had motivation to be
> zealous in his employer's cause.

Sorry, I meant to put a smiley face at the end of the 
'sued' sentence, here's one to make up for it ;-).

I'm sort of right though aren't I, but I think that
if there are discoveries to be made in herbal medicine
the first thing that happens is the big pharma companies
get hold of it and extract the active ingredient. There
could be money in there. 

 
> > > More than anything else, that's why I consider Skolnick
> > > a loathesome individual.
> > 
> > I can't judge him yet, I'll have to read more as I've only 
> > skimmed through it today. I like a lot of what he says on 
> > his website, I'm more open minded that the hard-core skeptics
> > but love the way they put their money on the line to get 
> > people to try and prove any paranormal claims. Not that
> > that includes MAV of course.
> 
> You may find it of interest that Skolnick considers 
> James Randi to be his mentor. At one point years
> back on the newsgroup sci.skeptic, he posted a
> fulsome tribute to Randi in which he referred to him
> as St. George slaying the dragon of pseudoscience
> (I kid you not).
> 
> I'm no fan of Randi. He's exposed some frauds, which
> is useful; but he considers anything "paranormal" to
> be a fraud a priori, so his objectivity is in serious
> question. Skolnick takes the same attitude: kill 'em
> all and let God sort 'em out.

I like what Randi does, but only up to a point. His 
million dollar prize if you can prove the paranormal 
is pure genius, he's had allsorts of jokers step forward. 

Where I disagree is his "If I can fake it, everyone
else must be too" position. I saw him on a show where
he  pretended to be a medium and gave some amazing
readings, causing people in the audience to burst 
into tears when he gave them accurate info about 
deceased relatives.

When the presenter unvieled him as a skeptic
demonstrating that anyone could be fooled by cold-
reading there was astonishment as some of the stuff
he unearthed was too incredibly accurate. Turned out
he'd had the names and addresses of everyone in the
audience and a team of researchers to check them out,
so he knew who to go for when he came onstage.

"Genuine" mediums on the show were outraged that
he insists they *must* be doing that to get the
same resul

[FairfieldLife] yu: 1. unite

[cardemaister]

It's "interesting" that the root 'yu' "represents" both a verb
whose meaning is 'to unite', and OTOH a verb whose meaning is
'to separate'! :0

Some forms appearing in the Vedic language (Rgveda, and stuff):

1. yu (unite):

present, class VI:  yuváti, -te.
present , class II: yauti; 
(aatmanepada, "intransitive") yuté;
subjunctive: yávan; imperative: yutáam  (3. s. A)
participle: yuvaaná; perfect: yuyuvé
periphrastic future(?): yuvitáá (braahmana) 
perfect participle: yutá
gerundive: -yúúya
desiderative: yúyuuSati
intensive: yoyuvé (Atharva-veda)
participle: yóyuvat (AV); yóyuvaana

I guess it mite be better to change to Chinese... :]

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[authfriend]

Not going to continue this, John. You know what my
beefs are with you. And you can bag the little
lectures. I don't give any credence to "advice"
from people for whom I have no respect either.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> > Let me put it this way: Unfair and mendacious
> > attacks on other people that cause *them* pain
> > cause *me* pain.
> >
> 
> Okay,
> 
> I'm still at a loss to understand your apparent rage and evident 
lashing out. 
> 
> Using your yardstick, can you point me toward an unfair and 
mendacious attack I've made 
> on you or other people?
> 
> Preferably in the posts you have attacked me for recently, but I 
would appreciate it if your 
> citation took place in, say, the last decade. But use your best 
judgement. I will naturally 
> apologize for any pain I caused at any time in the past.
> 
> And no matter what the cause of your pain, no matter how justified 
you feel, I still feel you 
> are responsible for your hurtful actions.
> 
> Doubly so because you espouse and recommend a *spiritual* teaching.
> 
> Do you disagree? 
> 
> J.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

> Let me put it this way: Unfair and mendacious
> attacks on other people that cause *them* pain
> cause *me* pain.
>

Okay,

I'm still at a loss to understand your apparent rage and evident lashing out. 

Using your yardstick, can you point me toward an unfair and mendacious attack 
I've made 
on you or other people?

Preferably in the posts you have attacked me for recently, but I would 
appreciate it if your 
citation took place in, say, the last decade. But use your best judgement. I 
will naturally 
apologize for any pain I caused at any time in the past.

And no matter what the cause of your pain, no matter how justified you feel, I 
still feel you 
are responsible for your hurtful actions.

Doubly so because you espouse and recommend a *spiritual* teaching.

Do you disagree? 

J.

[FairfieldLife] God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[do.rflex]

Former Republican congressional candidate Jason Werner tells us why
Our Lord and Savior flooded Cedar Rapids, Iowa:

I've been blaming the atrocity that occurred to New Orleans by a
storm called Katrina on the area's sin. That city was one of the most
corrupt cities I've ever toured, even more corrupt than the
abomination of a little sodomite parade today in Cleveland.

So I began wondering about Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It's innocent Iowa.
What could possibly be wrong with an area in "God's country".

I was going to release this on Monday of last week, but I felt my
arrest was bigger news. 

Link: http://tinyurl.com/3nazk2

Anyway, I learned that Cedar Rapids was an absolute city of
corruption. There are about 124,000 residents in the actual city. And
in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17 casinos. Embryonic
stem-cell research is funded. Liberal governors have run the state
into the ground for the past 20 years including a former conservative
Republican many years ago. Human cloning is legal. Referendums by the
citizens are often shot down. Spending for education is the most
consistent increase of any issue. The University of Iowa is among the
ten best colleges to party in the country. 

The University of Iowa is very homosexual-oriented. Grinnell is
extremely homosexual-oriented. I found five blood alleys in Cedar
Rapids. Homosexual organizations are very popular in Cedar Rapids and
Des Moines. Prostitution and adult entertainment is actually worse
than Cleveland, which has a population of nearly 400,000. There were
nearly 100 bars in a radius of one mile although the nearby college is
dry.

Links here:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/06/god-hates-cedar-rapids.html

[FairfieldLife] God Hates Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[do.rflex]

Former Republican congressional candidate Jason Werner tells us why
Our Lord and Savior flooded Cedar Rapids, Iowa:

I've been blaming the atrocity that occurred to New Orleans by a
storm called Katrina on the area's sin. That city was one of the most
corrupt cities I've ever toured, even more corrupt than the
abomination of a little sodomite parade today in Cleveland.

So I began wondering about Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It's innocent Iowa.
What could possibly be wrong with an area in "God's country".

I was going to release this on Monday of last week, but I felt my
arrest was bigger news. 

Link: 

Anyway, I learned that Cedar Rapids was an absolute city of
corruption. There are about 124,000 residents in the actual city. And
in Iowa, gambling is legal, whereby there are 17 casinos. Embryonic
stem-cell research is funded. Liberal governors have run the state
into the ground for the past 20 years including a former conservative
Republican many years ago. Human cloning is legal. Referendums by the
citizens are often shot down. Spending for education is the most
consistent increase of any issue. The University of Iowa is among the
ten best colleges to party in the country. The University of Iowa is
very homosexual-oriented. Grinnell is extremely homosexual-oriented. I
found five blood alleys in Cedar Rapids. Homosexual organizations are
very popular in Cedar Rapids and Des Moines. Prostitution and adult
entertainment is actually worse than Cleveland, which has a population
of nearly 400,000. There were nearly 100 bars in a radius of one mile
although the nearby college is dry.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But it is difficult for me to understand the virulence of
> your rage and hurtful lashing out on this forum, on this
> topic, in any other way than your response to pain of some
> kind.

Let me put it this way: Unfair and mendacious
attacks on other people that cause *them* pain
cause *me* pain.

[FairfieldLife] New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

[FairfieldLife]

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the FairfieldLife 
group.

  File: /TMO -- the Odd Side/tm_how_not_to_be_cult.html 
  Uploaded by : taskcentered <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  Description : Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/TMO%20--%20the%20Odd%20Side/tm_how_not_to_be_cult.html
 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

taskcentered <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:

> > (There's a *lot* more to the dismissal of the suit;
> > it would take me quite awhile to even outline it.)
> 
> If you have any links I'd be interested to take a look.

Aiee. The problem is the various pieces of it are
scattered throughout many dozens of posts on alt.m.t
over a couple of years as the story gradually unfolded
(Skolnick dragging his feet the whole way). I'll see
if I can figure out a way to put all the relevant
facts in a few paragraphs, but I can't do it right now.

> >  I have known two people who died after being
> > > reommended the wonder gloop, both of whom had a long
> > > slow miserable death. What justification is there for
> > > this?
> > 
> > Were they also getting standard treatment, or did they
> > rely on the Ayurvedic preparations?
> 
> One died after trying both conventional and huge doses
> of MA4, which obviously did nothing as it was a textbook
> progression. And the other just took the MA4, which is 
> their right, but doesn't make it alright as far as I was 
> concerned

I don't think there's anything the TMO can do if the
patient uses poor judgment. On the other hand, there's
no way of knowing if the first person's chances of
surviving were raised by MA-V--just not enough.

 because all this is simply folk medicine with no
> actual known results to back up it's claims so why is it
> considered such a big deal by the TMO, it's only because
> it's ancient and Indian.

Some cancer patients apparently did have good results
using MA-V as adjunctive therapy to mitigate the side
effects of chemo and radiation. As you probably know,
mitigating side effects isn't just a matter of making
life more pleasant for the cancer patient; in some cases
the side effects themselves are life-threatening, and
in other cases they're so debilitating that the patient
refuses further treatment. The only thing to do in such
cases is to reduce the therapeutic dosage of chemo and
radiation, which means the therapy is less effective
against the cancer.

So anything that can reduce the side effects is making
a major contribution to the potential success of the
medical therapy.

(There's an associated Skolnick story here, which again
I don't have time now to relate but may get around to
later on.)


> > > Judy, a serious question: Given that you're into 
> > > fighting for truth and justice and all that shouldn't
> > > you be on Skolnicks side in this? Far from muckraking
> > > he was making some serious points about medical 
> > > quackery that should be exposed. How much of ayurvedic
> > > medicine has actually been double-blind tested and 
> > > independently at that?
> > 
> > Not much. But consider this: After Skolnick's article
> > purporting to "expose" the TMO as a bunch of fraudsters,
> > what independent researchers are going to want to touch
> > any of its recommended products or services with a 10-
> > foot pole? What reputable journal is going to be willing
> > to publish TM's own studies on Maharishi Ayur-Veda?
> 
> But has that happened? The TMO still gets lots of
> things published, and there is always interest in herbal 
> medicine.

I'm unaware of any studies of MA-V that were published
since Skolnick's article.

 I'm not sure you can blame Skolnick entirely
> if MAV never gets noticed, it did get an award in India
> recently, if it's good the truth will come out.

Maybe eventually, but it'll take a lot longer. MA-V
faced a lot of obstacles anyway, as you note, but
Skolnick put a mountain range in its path.

> But the upcoming case about mercury poisoning aint
> gonna help is it?

I don't know anything about that case. Probably best
to wait until the case is decided to draw conclusions.

> > Yes, he did have some good points to make. But he didn't
> > limit himself to those. He went into overkill mode to
> > paint the TMO as a whole as illegitimate, in many cases
> > appallingly misleadingly.
> > 
> > As a result, if there should be anything in MA-V that
> > *is* actually useful to sick people, we'll never know,
> > because Skolnick's article very effectively, and
> > entirely deliberately, eliminated the possibility of
> > any serious researchers ever studying it.
> 
> > Remember who he was working for at the time.
> 
> Conspiracy? Paid off by the big-pharma to rubbish
> MAV? Big claims. Be careful, you could get sued.

Um, didn't suggest any such thing, Hugo. He was
working for an official publication of the American
Medical Association, which has an obvious interest
in debunking nonmedical therapies. Any committed
employee of a company or organization is going to
want to do what s/he can to advance his or her
employer's interests. Skolnick had motivation to be
zealous in his employer's cause.

> > More than anything else, that's why I consider Skolnick
> > a loathesome individual.
> 
> I can't judge him yet, I'll have to read more as I've only 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is everything spinning out of control?

[Bhairitu]

off_world_beings wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>  , bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>   
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080621/ap_on_re_us/out_of_control
>> 
> 
>   
>> > 
>  >
>   
>
> No worries americans.
> The Brits are back.
> We'll take it from here thankyou.
>
> OffWorld
We have to have the Revolutionary War all over again?  America just 
becoming a third world country.  American kids are only trained to be 
athletes as if what the world needs is more athletes.   Americans were 
coaxed in debt, monster homes and big vehicles.  Now the chickens have 
come home to roost.  But I also see things are that great in the UK 
either.  Leave your CCTV systems at home.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

> I believe I already explained that attacks by those
> for whom I have no respect do not cause me pain.
>

Judy,

I know next to nothing about you. I only know your writings. And I believe it's 
virtually 
impossible to know a person on the basis of their writings or public actions.

But it is difficult for me to understand the virulence of your rage and hurtful 
lashing out on 
this forum, on this topic, in any other way than your response to pain of some 
kind.

In my mind, this does not excuse acting out. 

We all have a right to our feelings. 

But we all also bear responsibility for our actions.

J.

P.S. It has been difficult to keep the focus on the topic of this discussion. 
So I'm thinking 
I'll take a poster's advice and upload the original file in the hopes it will 
spark on-topic 
discussion at some future date.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > But here's an example of your attempts to trash
> > me, just FYI:
> > 
> > "I may be wrong, Judy, but it seems when people disagree
> > with your own views re TM, you attack them with disparaging
> > labels -- ignoring the substance of what they have to say?"
> > 
> > And then there was your nitwit question, "What is your
> > reason for posting to a thread you are not interested in
> > discussing?"
> >
> 
> Judy,
> 
> I fail to see how either of your examples of my words are
> attacks on you.

I'll just let that admitted failure speak for itself.

> Naturally, if they caused you pain, I regret and apologize
> for that.

I believe I already explained that attacks by those
for whom I have no respect do not cause me pain.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Memo to New TM Leaders: How NOT to Be a Cult

[authfriend]

Those who are already aware that Barry compulsively
and repeatedly lies about me (most everyone here, I
suspect) should feel free to skip this post.

I'm combining Barry's two most recent posts in a single
response rather than waste a post of my own.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > It was half that, and half of those were in
> > > response to Knapp's attempts to trash *me*.
> > 
> > Judy,
> > 
> > I went out of my way to NOT trash you.
> 
> And I think that everyone here noticed that.

I provided examples.

> You were studious in trying to avoid confront-
> ation with her, and to avoid replying in kind.

Bullcrap.

> In fact, you consistently tried to steer her
> back to the topic, while she consistently tried
> to steer the conversation away from it, and to
> focus it on trashing your reputation.

Lie. No, I didn't "try to steer the conversation
away from it." I said explicitly that I wasn't
interested, several times. It was John who kept
trying to steer *me* into a conversation I had
made it clear I had no intention of engaging in.

Barry knows this.

> > I DID disagree with some of what you said. That is 
> > not the same as attacking you.
> 
> Whereas what Judy did, from the moment that a 
> newbie took what you posted seriously, as if it 
> had come from a human being, was to trash you 
> and attempt to portray you as less than one.

Lie. Never have I suggested that John was anything
other than a human being.

What I *have* said--and stand by, and have
documented--is that he is an *untrustworthy*
human being.

Barry knows this.
 
> Here is a fairly recent Judyquote. Compare 
> and contrast it to her treatment of John 
> Knapp, who in my opinion did NOT attack her. 
> (Before she screams bloody murder and accuses
> me of 'misrepresenting' her, the two ellipses
> below are for deletions of the words 'about 
> Hillary' to make the quote more general.)
> 
> "What I've said ... is that one needs to seek out 
> alternative views for the sake of balance (when it 
> comes to opinions). As to facts, in most cases it's 
> possible to determine whether what are presented as 
> facts ... are accurate by consulting other sources; 
> and if the facts remain uncertain, at least one 
> knows there are competing claims, and hopefully 
> what the case is for each of them. What's *not OK* 
> is to read only one side and swallow it whole."
> 
> All that John did was to present an alternative
> viewpoint, the VERY thing that Judy said that 
> she and other critical-thinking people SHOULD
> search out.

An alternative viewpoint *to what*? What's the
viewpoint that John's is an alternative to?

Barry has no idea. He didn't bother to think
through what he was saying; he just thought it
sounded good. Whether it actually makes sense
is not important.

 To date, she has not addressed even
> one substantial remark from his point of view; 
> all that she has done is attempt to smear his 
> reputation.

Actually, what I've done is point out what his
reputation *is* among those who have had
extended encounters with him.

> I'm sorry to dredge up the Judywars again, but
> this is classic. She cannot even PRETEND that
> she had any intent other than to dissuade a 
> newbie from considering a different point of
> view on the TMO,

Again: What is the point of view that John's is
allegedly different *from*?

As I said to Ruth:

"There's nothing wrong with what he says; it's who's
saying it--this *particular* former TM teacher--and
what his motives are. We have ample reason not to
take what he says at face value. There's a history
here you aren't aware of."

I stand by that statement. Barry knows I made it,
so his statement above is a lie.


> If I may close with another of her quotes, I
> shall allow that quote stand as a critique of her
> performance in the last two days vs. John Knapp's:
> 
> "Sometimes it can even be seen from the start who 
> is an empty suit and who has real substance."

That's with regard to political candidates, as
Barry knows.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sadly, not true. Last week, *as I said I would*
> (because she went over the posting limit for the
> second time in a month and refused to take her
> well-deserved week-long 'timeout')

Lie. As Barry knows, there's no way to "refuse to
take" a timeout. Rick decided against giving me one,
so if Barry has any complaints, he needs to take it
up with Rick.

, I did not
> reply to any of her posts, or comment on her 
> directly, except in my last post of the week,
> after she had begun to shamelessly attack John
> Knapp *for making a subdued and valuable post*.

Lie. As Barry knows, that isn't why I "attacked" John.


> I will speak up when she savages someone else
> here unfairly, out of spite and anger and 
> because of old grudges she cannot drop, and
> out of being a tried and true 

[FairfieldLife] Photo: Earth and moon from Mars

[do.rflex]

It's a small world...

This is an image of Earth and the moon, acquired on October 3, 2007,
by the HiRISE camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. 

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/214812main_EarthMoon-browse.jpg

[FairfieldLife] Re: Trancenet Alert!

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  
> wrote:
> 
> > > I would like to know what happened in court with 
> > > Skolnick though.
> > 
> > Call off the search, I've found it. Case dismissed and,
> > I have to say, quite rightly so.
> 
> FWIW, the case was dismissed *without prejudice*,
> meaning that it could be refiled. As I understand it,
> the dismissal was on the basis that the two TM-related
> organizations that brought the suit would be very
> unlikely to be able to show that they had been materially
> affected by Skolnick's article, so whether the article
> was or was not accurate wasn't addressed at all.
> 
> (There's a *lot* more to the dismissal of the suit;
> it would take me quite awhile to even outline it.)


If you have any links I'd be interested to take a look.


 
> 
>  I have known two people who died after being
> > reommended the wonder gloop, both of whom had a long
> > slow miserable death. What justification is there for
> > this?
> 
> Were they also getting standard treatment, or did they
> rely on the Ayurvedic preparations?

One died after trying both conventional and huge doses
of MA4, which obviously did nothing as it was a textbook
progression. And the other just took the MA4, which is 
their right, but doesn't make it alright as far as I was 
concerned because all this is simply folk medicine with no
actual known results to back up it's claims so why is it
considered such a big deal by the TMO, it's only because
it's ancient and Indian. Could be a huge load of placebos
for all we know.
 
>  A study showing cancer cells are destroyed in
> > a petri dish, what they don't mention is that bodies
> > behave somewhat differently and one result cannot be
> > infered from the other. Didn't stop the TMO though 
> > did it? Shame it isn't illegal to refuse medical help
> > in favour of untested folk medicine.
> 
> Again, I'd be *very* surprised to find the TMO
> promoting MA-V as a *substitute* for medical treatment.


I would hope they don't too. I'm pretty sure *thats* illegal.

 
> > Judy, a serious question: Given that you're into 
> > fighting for truth and justice and all that shouldn't
> > you be on Skolnicks side in this? Far from muckraking
> > he was making some serious points about medical 
> > quackery that should be exposed. How much of ayurvedic
> > medicine has actually been double-blind tested and 
> > independently at that?
> 
> Not much. But consider this: After Skolnick's article
> purporting to "expose" the TMO as a bunch of fraudsters,
> what independent researchers are going to want to touch
> any of its recommended products or services with a 10-
> foot pole? What reputable journal is going to be willing
> to publish TM's own studies on Maharishi Ayur-Veda?


But has that happened? The TMO still gets lots of
things published, and there is always interest in herbal 
medicine. I'm not sure you can blame Skolnick entirely
if MAV never gets noticed, it did get an award in India
recently, if it's good the truth will come out. But the
upcoming case about mercury poisoning aint gonna help
is it?




> Yes, he did have some good points to make. But he didn't
> limit himself to those. He went into overkill mode to
> paint the TMO as a whole as illegitimate, in many cases
> appallingly misleadingly.
> 
> As a result, if there should be anything in MA-V that
> *is* actually useful to sick people, we'll never know,
> because Skolnick's article very effectively, and
> entirely deliberately, eliminated the possibility of
> any serious researchers ever studying it.


> Remember who he was working for at the time.


Conspiracy? Paid off by the big-pharma to rubbish
MAV? Big claims. Be careful, you could get sued.

 
> More than anything else, that's why I consider Skolnick
> a loathesome individual.
>

I can't judge him yet, I'll have to read more as I've only 
skimmed through it today. I like a lot of what he says on 
his website, I'm more open minded that the hard-core skeptics
but love the way they put their money on the line to get 
people to try and prove any paranormal claims. Not that
that includes MAV of course.