[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[Janet Luise]

The Mad Adventures of Rabbi Jacob- Louis de Funes  (& anything else by
him 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23AuQPnjBYI

Casino Royal

The Bank Dick — W.C. Fields

The Ghosts of __ Castle  (German 1030s) Musical
Lotte Lenya is a Julie Andrews type person who's newly inherited
castle has 3 resident ghosts.  The music is SO funny.

These 4 are my top funny ones, but the following aren't bad either.  

The Original of "Nuns on the Run" - a German movie with a young Gert Fröbe
(who played Goldfinger much later)

Blues BrothersI STILL love all those auto wrecks!

My Little Chickadee (1940)  With Mae West, WC Fields
(maybe not laugh out loud but drollic

Monty Python 

not a movie but I really liked TV series  "Allo Allo"

Mr. Bean on Holidays

Don't Mess with the Zohan  (sex jokes a bit boring but politically funny

[FairfieldLife] Re: Howlin' Wolf - Smokestack Lightnin'

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ah-oh, smokestack lightnin,
> Shinin, just like gold,
> Why don't ya hear me cryin?
> A-whoo-hooo, ,
> Whooo.
> 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vAczJUkwU0&feature=related

[FairfieldLife] Re: Climate Crisis - News for Shemp

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This Arctic methane gas issue is going to be the topic on today's Talk of
> the Nation - Science Friday on NPR.
>

Best kept secret on the internet:

best way to get a question answered on Science Friday is to plop an
avatar next to Ira Flato's in Second LIfe and participate in the local chatter. 
He monitors it and incorporates it into his interview, which is why he always 
seems so on top of things: he's reading the comments of many dozens (even
hundreds) of kibitzers while talking to his guests.


L.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Getting Laid Off Before You Start

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I was just speaking with a friend who took a holiday job at 
> Target. He told me that they hired a bunch of people for the 
> holidays and then had to call them back to say to lay them 
> off before they even worked one day! He said they were even 
> cutting hours on existing employees. I haven't seen this 
> reported in the MSM yet but it should be.  That's how 
> bad it is getting.

In the same spirit of "feedback from the streets,"
I met a woman last night who makes her living by
selling power tools. She and her staff drive to
construction sites around Spain and sell high-end
tools and construction supplies to builders where
they work, so that they don't have to take time 
off from work to shop for them. It's been a very
successful business for them for decades, similar
to what Snap-On Tools does in the U.S.

Last night, after a couple of glasses of wine, she
confided that she's worried. Over *half* of the
building sites she travels to every week are now
dark, shut down. The independent contractors have
not been paid in a couple of months, and the workers
have been laid off. No one is buying any supplies
because they can't afford to. The speculators who
"own" the sites under development have no money 
to pay contractors, and the contractors have no
money to buy tools and supplies, even if they
still have work.

In other words, the "housing bubble" in Spain has
finally burst Big Time, and for the same reasons
it has in the U.S. Spanish banks were lending 
pretty much anyone the money to buy a house, and
worse, they were lending speculators who didn't
have a centime of real capital or collateral the
millions of Euros they wanted to build big hous-
ing and office developments. Now it's all been
revealed as the house of cards it always was.

The woman in question is originally Danish, and
was saying that "back home" this would never have
happened because Denmark never allowed its citizens
to "spend more than they have." They've always had,
and been proud of, a purely cash society. If you
can't prove to a banker that you can't afford it,
you can't buy it. As a result, Denmark's economy 
is still pretty healthy, whereas countries like
Spain and Ireland that adopted the "American model" 
of pretending to be able to live a lifestyle they 
really couldn't afford are in deep shit.

It's going to be a long, cold winter.

[FairfieldLife] Question: What happens to "New Age" business in a depression?

[TurquoiseB]

I don't know the answer to this question, and am
throwing it out to see what people here think. 

To some extent, the proliferation of "New Age"
business -- teaching expensive courses in medi-
tation or self-help techniques, providing "pre-
dictive services" like astrology, Jyotish, tarot,
or other forms of what I consider bullshit but
that many consider valuable "science," and 
"evolved lifestyle" businesses such as organic 
produce, "special" water filtering devices, etc. 
-- all depend on a fairly healthy and flourishing 
economy, or at least on the illusion of one.

What will happen to such businesses as the illusion
is revealed more and more to be exactly that, an
illusion?

Take astrology and Jyotish and "seers" who make
money by charging people to tell them stuff they
want to hear. That's pretty much a "luxury item,"
economy-wise. Given a choice between feeding and
clothing their kids or getting a new "life reading"
from some new charlatan, what are "New Age" fam-
ilies going to do? Are they going to continue to
spend big bucks on the "comfort food" of being told
comforting things about their high past-life profile
and how so very, very important that makes them in
the cosmic scheme of things, or are they going to
save that money and buy necessities with it?

I really don't know, and am interested in what the
folks here think. I don't think we have a "past
model" for this one, economically. Such businesses
really weren't as common back during the previous 
depression; the only clue we might get from that
period is how well *religions* did when the times
got tough. Is the desire to be told that things
are not as bad as they seem greater than the need
to feed ones kids and get through the month finan-
cially? All good questions IMO. What do you think?

[FairfieldLife] Another Question: What happens to religion in a depression?

[TurquoiseB]

Following up on this, and in the same spirit
of I-don't-know-the-answer-ness, what's going
to happen to mainstream religion if the econ-
omy tanks Big Time?

Will Mormons still fork over 10% of their income
without question to the church? Will we start to
hear sermons like, "God needs the money more than
you do...skimp on food and necessities if you have
to, but don't skimp when that collection plate
comes around to your aisle."

And, an even bigger question given the supposed
principles of many churches and religions, will
they start dipping into their own coffers to help
their followers, and thus live up to the principles
of their religions, or will they act more like the
Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages and call
for hellfire and damnation to rain down on those
who fail to pay their dues to the "representatives
of God on Earth?"

I think it's going to be an interesting time for
those who follow the sociology of religion. If
the times get tough, will religions "get going"
and do their part to help out, or will they whine
and browbeat their followers into continuing to
pour money into already-full coffers? I can see
the next few years being a real "make it or break
it" period for religion and its claims.

[FairfieldLife] For Stu: Determinism in cinema and TV

[TurquoiseB]

Stu, I watched the latest episode of "Heroes" 
with the question you posed last week in mind,
and it was interesting to keep that perspective
in my mind as I watched.

There *was* definitely a theme of "things are
not completely in our control" throughout the
episode, as "forces beyond us" suddenly left
all of these heroes and villains with super-
powers *without* their superpowers. There were
even comments in the episode about "who is 
controlling things, because we sure aren't."

However, towards the end of the episode, it
came down to *individual decision* again IMO.
Yes, this mysterious eclipse that removed their
powers for a while was beyond their control, 
but then it passed, and each of the people with
superpowers who had had to make a decision prev-
iously whether to use them for good (become a 
"hero") or for self-interest (become a "villain")
were right back where they started. They had to
make the same decision all over again, and then
act on it.

Isn't that kinda how *all* of us are? There are
certainly factors affecting our lives that are
out of our control. The economy, the possibility
of natural disasters or pandemic, lots of ugly
shit that we just don't have *any* control over
and never will. You could look at these obvious
realities as an indicator of Determinism, that
"someone else's hand" is "guiding" all of this.

But I don't see things that way, and I get the
feeling that you don't either, and interestingly
many of the characters in the fictional "Heroes"
series didn't either. The bottom line for them
was *not* "What is guiding these events that are 
out of our control?" It was more, "What can *I* 
do to better guide the things that *are* in my 
control?" A few of the characters stepped up to
the plate again to fight against self-interest.
That is definitely *not* Determinism; that's
the stuff of individual choice, of Free Will.
( Unless you make the tired old case, as some 
here might do, that they had no real choice 
about being heroes, because that was their pre-
determined "fate," to which I cry bullshit. :-)

I'll keep looking for this Determinist theme
that you mentioned in TV series and in movies,
but I suspect that I'll continue to find a 
*balance*, as I did with "Heroes." There will
be some who see Determinism in a series or movie,
and there will be some who see in the *same* 
series or movie only an opportunity for the 
expression of and exercise of Free Will.

What you focus on you become. It's deja vu all 
over again...   :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Oil is at...

[Sal Sunshine]

On Dec 5, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

> Probably the best solution is for society to slow down and live  
> simply.
> This rush to nowhere is killing us.

Best thing I've seen here in a long time.
Where is it all getting us?  Nowhere.
We're behind almost every other industrialized
nation in every way that counts.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Note Of Thanks from Synchronicity Group

[dhamiltony2k5]

Om well rick,

talking here with Invincibility America course participants recently, 
that other 'Synchronicity' would be bogus.  For it is only in doing 
the trademarked scientifically researched TM programs is there the 
basis of all positivity potential going on.  For afterall the science 
proves that TM is the best and only.  "it is only by a one in a 
million chance according to the science that it could be anything 
other than the Invincible America course".

Get on the program.

Jai Guru Dev,

-Doug in FF


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
>    
> 
> 
>   Home 
|
>  
Catalogue |
>  
Audio/DVD 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Dear Friends,
> 
> As most of you know, Yogi Impressions had organised events for the
> Synchronicity Foundation, headed by Master Charles Cannon, in 
Mumbai. The
> introductory talk was on the 17th of November, and had over 200 
people in
> attendance. The daily satsangs were taking place in the evenings, 
right up
> till the 26th of November. The weekend programme was scheduled for 
29th and
> 30th November.
> 
> The entire Synchronicity group was staying at The Oberoi. It was 
after the
> satsang of the 26th that the group headed back to The Oberoi and 
some were
> dining in the restaurant when the tragic events unfolded. In the 
terrorist
> attack, Alan Scherr - the Vice President of Synchronicity, and his 
beautiful
> daughter Naomi, did not survive.
> 
> Prior to joining Synchronicity in 1996, Alan was affiliated with the
> Transcendental Meditation organisation for 25 years as a 
practitioner,
> teacher, and programme facilitator. He was also a university 
faculty member
> in the art departments of the University of Maryland and Loyola 
College.
> Alan committed most of his adult life to meditation, spirituality 
and
> conscious living. He was a passionate Vedic astrologer and 
meditation
> teacher who inspired many people to begin a journey of self 
awareness and
> meditation. Naomi was a bright and lively young woman who loved 
spending
> time with people and living life to the fullest. She was 
passionate, if not
> a little mischievous, and will be fondly remembered for her radiant 
energy.
> 
> Three other Synchronicity members who were dining at the same table 
were
> shot and are now recovering in a hospital in Mumbai.
> 
> Master Charles and the rest of his group were released Friday 
evening, after
> being confined to their rooms for two whole days, while the hotel 
was under
> siege. It was amazing to see how calm and composed the entire group 
of
> Synchronicity meditators was, through this ordeal. They were truly 
living
> the teaching. 
> 
> Thank you for all your prayers. The kind of support and love they 
have
> received from all over the world has been overwhelming. 
> 
> Many people asked Master Charles if he would return to Mumbai after 
this
> incident. His reply was, "Nothing could keep me away from this 
beautiful
> country." 
> 
> We look forward to his return to India. 
> 
> 
> 
> The Yogi Impressions Team 
> 
> 
>   _  
> 
> 
>To Unsubscribe
>  UBSCRIBE> , reply to this message with "unsubscribe" in the subject.
> 
>   _
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM

[dhamiltony2k5]

Not a cult?  That is good.  What were the guys thinking when they 
went in and pulled the levers to take the Kaplan money and shuttle it 
around?  That what Maharishi and they were doing was more important 
than anything else?  Like theft?  Jai Guru Dev?




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> -Original Message-
> From: David Orme-Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:29 PM
> To: David Orme-Johnson
> Subject: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
> 
>  
> 
> The links below will take you to a new page and subsections on
> www.TruthAboutTM.com  , which presents
> evidence that the Transcendental Meditation program in not cult. 
You can
> see some of the post below.
> 
>  
> 
> All the best,
> 
> David
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Individual Effects
> 
> Issue: Is the Transcendental Meditation Program a Cult?
> 
 > 
> 
> Summary: 
> 
> The Transcendental Meditation program cannot be called a cult 
because it
> develops independent, intelligent, creating thinking and its 
founder,
> Maharishi, has in many ways encouraged personal independence,
> integration with society, and good citizenship.
> 
> Contents: 
> 
> Table Comparing the Transcendental Meditation Program and Cults
> 
 #tablecult> 
> 
> How the TM technique Differs from Hypnosis
> 
 #hypnosis>  
> 
> Maharishi is the Opposite of a Cult Leader
> 
 #Maharishi> 
> 
> Swami Muktananda on Maharishi
> 
 #muktananda>  
> 
> References
> 
 #references>  
> 
> The Evidence:
> 
> The word "cult" has many meanings, but in recent decades it has 
often
> been used with a negative connotation to point out a group that 
others
> would like to see removed from society. This use of the term is
> expressed by the prominent religious scholar J. Gordon Melton:
> 
> "My working definition of a cult is a group that you don't like, 
and I
> say that somewhat facetiously, but at the same time, in fact, that 
is my
> working definition of a cult. It is a group that somebody doesn't 
like.
> It is a derogatory term, and I have never seen it redeemed from the
> derogatory connotations that it picked up in the sociological 
literature
> in the 1930s." (1).
> 
> 
> Some psychologists and psychoanalysts have used their personal
> definition of mind control as "expert testimony" in legal 
proceedings
> against New Age groups on the behalf of various special interest 
groups
> who want to see them censured by society. However, this endeavor 
has not
> gained the support of the scientific community.
> 
> 
> "A report on brainwashing and mind control presented by an American
> Psychological Association
>   
(APA)
> task force known as the APA Taskforce on Deceptive and Indirect
> Techniques of Persuasion and Control (DIMPAC
>  ), chaired by Singer, was 
rejected
> in 1987 by the APA's Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility for
> Psychology (BSERP) as lacking "the scientific rigor and evenhanded
> critical approach necessary for APA imprimatur," and cautioned the 
task
> force members to "not distribute or publicize the report without
> indicating that the report was unacceptable to the Board." 
> 
> 
> The table below list factors related to cults along with evidence
> showing that the Transcendental Meditation program is the opposite 
of
> cults on every point.
> 
> Table Comparing the Transcendental Meditation Program and Cults.
> 
> Factors Related to Cults
> 
> Transcendental Meditation Program
> 
> Mind Control. Cults may use mind control techniques, such as peer
> pressure, to gain control over the behavior or their members (2, 3).
> 
>  
> 
> No Mind Control. The Transcendental Meditation program
>   does not use any the mind control techniques. 
It
> is a simple, natural, effortless process that one does by oneself, 
which
> allows the mind to settle to its own quite level. (4). No one else 
is
> involved.
> 
> Stress, Fear, and Weaknesses. Cults prey on the individual's 
stresses,
> fears, and weaknesses, and may use various techniques to amplify 
these
> factors to make the person more susceptible to manipulation (2).
> 
> Deep Rest to Normalize Stress and Fear, and Improve Health. The TM
> technique protects the individual from cults by strengthening the 
mind
> and body. It does this by providing a state of deep r

[FairfieldLife] Re: Question: What happens to "New Age" business in a depression?

[Nelson]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't know the answer to this question, and am
> throwing it out to see what people here think. 
> 
> To some extent, the proliferation of "New Age"
> business -- teaching expensive courses in medi-
> tation or self-help techniques, providing "pre-
> dictive services" like astrology, Jyotish, tarot,
> or other forms of what I consider bullshit but
> that many consider valuable "science," and 
> "evolved lifestyle" businesses such as organic 
> produce, "special" water filtering devices, etc. 
> -- all depend on a fairly healthy and flourishing 
> economy, or at least on the illusion of one.
> 
> What will happen to such businesses as the illusion
> is revealed more and more to be exactly that, an
> illusion?
> 
> Take astrology and Jyotish and "seers" who make
> money by charging people to tell them stuff they
> want to hear. That's pretty much a "luxury item,"
> economy-wise. Given a choice between feeding and
> clothing their kids or getting a new "life reading"
> from some new charlatan, what are "New Age" fam-
> ilies going to do? Are they going to continue to
> spend big bucks on the "comfort food" of being told
> comforting things about their high past-life profile
> and how so very, very important that makes them in
> the cosmic scheme of things, or are they going to
> save that money and buy necessities with it?
> 
> I really don't know, and am interested in what the
> folks here think. I don't think we have a "past
> model" for this one, economically. Such businesses
> really weren't as common back during the previous 
> depression; the only clue we might get from that
> period is how well *religions* did when the times
> got tough. Is the desire to be told that things
> are not as bad as they seem greater than the need
> to feed ones kids and get through the month finan-
> cially? All good questions IMO. What do you think?
>
+ Probably will be some stress as people will have to sort the
essentials from the fun and games.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Climate Crisis - News for Shemp

[sgrayatlarge]

Hey Shemp, It's called the "watermelon effect" green on the outside, 
red on the inside. That's what the hard core new agers have morphed 
into.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> >
> > This Arctic methane gas issue is going to be the topic on today's 
> Talk of
> > the Nation - Science Friday on NPR.
> >
> 
> 
> Hey, Rick, didn't you know that everyone at NPR are communists?
>

[FairfieldLife] Obama Pledges Massive Public Works Program

[do.rflex]

Obama Pledges Massive Public Works Program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGpIT2bVZDw

++


Job losses worst since 1974

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. employers axed 533,000 jobs from payrolls
in November, the most in 34 years, as the year-old recession hammered
the economy and hardened calls for dramatic government action to
restore growth. 

The Labor Department said Friday the unemployment rate hit 6.7 percent
last month, the highest since 1993, which adds up to 10.3 million
Americans out of work, 2 million more than the population of New York
City. 

Reuters: http://snipurl.com/7f3xe

++


Foreclosures soar 76% to record 1.35 million

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- A record 1.35 million homes were in
foreclosure in the third quarter, driving the foreclosure rate up to
2.97%, the Mortgage Bankers Association said Friday.

That's a 76% increase from a year ago, according to the group's
National Delinquency Survey.

At the same time, the number of homeowners falling behind on their
mortgages rose to a record 6.99%, up from 5.59% a year ago, the
association said.

This means that one in 10 borrowers in America are either delinquent
or in foreclosure...

"We have not gone into past recessions with the housing market as weak
as it is now, so it is likely that a much higher percentage of
delinquencies caused by job losses will go to foreclosure than we have
seen in the past," said Jay Brinkmann, MBA's chief economist.

http://snipurl.com/7f4d3

[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Chaplin (starring Robert Downey, Jr.) -- can't stand the real 
> > Chaplin, 
> 
> Then there's at least two of us. Recently tried to watch The Dictator,
> but found it rather boring save the speech of "Hynkel"
> in some kind of German.

In "Modern Times" Charlie Chaplin tries to adjust to an industrialized
world that treats him like automated machinery.  He becomes manic
working on an assembly line for a hyper-efficient factory. He has a
mental breakdown, loses his job, and runs out of luck during hard
times.  Great slapstick. The movie is sympathetic to Chaplin's
political views about corporate greed. 

During the McCarthy era, Chaplin accused of "un-American activities"
and suspected as a communist sympathizer, moved to Switzerland. My
grandmother, who would be 112 if she were alive, saw it in 1936 and
laughed until she cried.  I made a point of seeing it years ago and
loved it.  

The assembly line scene reminds me of the "I Love Lucy" episode "Job
Switching" where she and Ethel get a job at a chocolate factory. There
are two hilarious scenes "Chocolate Dipping" http://tinyurl.com/5ql6ja
and "Chocolate Wrapping" http://tinyurl.com/59clkk 

Youtube has Modern Times in 9 parts.
http://tinyurl.com/5hqn8n

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of raunchydog
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:17 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you
"Laugh-Out-Loud"

Youtube has Modern Times in 9 parts.
http://tinyurl.com/5hqn8n

Netflix has it too:
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Modern_Times/60028129?trkid=222336&lnkctr=srchr
d-sr&strkid=1147487333_0_0

[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of raunchydog
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:17 AM
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have
made you
> "Laugh-Out-Loud"
> 
> Youtube has Modern Times in 9 parts.
> http://tinyurl.com/5hqn8n
> 
> Netflix has it too:
>
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Modern_Times/60028129?trkid=222336&lnkctr=srchr
> d-sr&strkid=1147487333_0_0

Rick, Your link doesn't work in text editor.

[FairfieldLife] Sign the petition to Prohibit Divorce!

[do.rflex]

Protect the Sanctity Marriage - Protect Children - Prohibit Divorce 

Watch: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cca5e8a78a/ 

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of raunchydog
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:35 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you
"Laugh-Out-Loud"

 

Rick, Your link doesn't work in text editor.

http://tinyurl.com/5zm3mh

[FairfieldLife] Re: Oil is at...

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Nelson wrote:
> >  + Only an opinion but,
> >The low fuel prices look artificial and, can hold out much longer
> > than the alternate fuels which are newer companies.
> > In Fairfield, there was a branch of a company that made tanks
for
> > the ethanol industry which has closed letting the help go.
> >  I wonder if, after the competition has collapsed, the fuel
price
> > will reach even higher levels.  hope not.
> Gas driven cars are filthy.  If you saw "Who Killed the Electric Car"
>>

Yea, and guess who killed the electric car. Bush/Cheney's bumchums
Chevron-Texaco, with complicacy from the now bankrupt GM, which now
needs help from the communist government of Bush-Cheney (even the
Republican farm subsidies are a form of Communism. And the republicans
call the Democrats 'socialists'  just because the Dems want to help
little old ladies and sick children. )

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
> jmknapp53@ wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11
>  wrote:
> >
> > > so its not a joke he is making, but rather a gentle suggestion
> on
> > > how to truly live a happier, more effective life.
> > >
> >
> > Hi, enlightened dawn,
> >
> > I think I liked it better when I thought it was a joke!
> >
> > I practiced TM and the sidhis exactly as instructed for 23 years.
> Certainly got checked
> > numerous times, became a governor myself.
> >
> > I think if TM were the answer for me, it would have helped by now.
> >
> > I have no doubt that many people here and elsewhere are quite
> satisfied with their TM
> > practice and involvement in the Org.
> >
> > I wonder, is it possible for them to accept that others have
> different viewpoints and
> > experiences?
> >
> > I work with people experiencing problems with their TM practice
> every day. But I
> > recognize everyone's feelings about TM exist on a continuum from
> very happy to very
> > troubled. I can readily accept that. Like most things in life,
> it's good for some, not good
> > for others.
> >
> > That to me seems a balanced view. I know that some people feel
> that TM is the highest
> > knowledge, works for everyone, has only positive effects. This to
> me seems an unbalanced
> > view based on the reports my clients and others give me.
>
> i stayed away from mentioning TM deliberately, and focused instead
> on the benefits of transcending. it is too easy to confuse the
> practice of transcending with the practice of TM, and miss the point
> of the practice by vilifying the method. i think that has happened
> to so many people.
>
> when i said that transcendence is necessary in order for us to not
> be at the affect of the world and our resulting anxieties, that is
> what i meant. many, if not all, of those that have problems with TM
> did it too much, for whatever reason, without some balancing action
> to integrate the practice.
>
> too much transcending can cause profound disassociation from the
> world, keeping the cloth wet with yellow dye, never allowing the
> cloth to fade and fix in the sunshine of activity. living in an
> unstable world that continuously and profoundly changes, without
> stabilizing and settling down, without developing the capacity to
> have a stable personality; neither fully established in Being, nor
> wholly absent from it, a deeply uncomfortable place to be.
>
> the problem is not with TM, but rather, not taking the time to
> integrate the effects of transcending. true not only of those that
> learned TM, but of those who taught it too.
>
> to say the problem is with a technique that reliably and
> mechanically allows the mind and body to transcend just misses the
> point- throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>
> reliable and regular transcending is a great gift, should we choose
> to take advantage of it. we just have to be willing to balance the
> practice with lots and lots and lots of activity. otherwise the
> whole practice becomes an end in itself, and fails to do much more
> than literally drive the practioner mad.
>
> > TM: neither fully evil or good. Fulfilling for some, downright
> dangerous for others. And
> > every flavor in between.
>
> i would say that TM can be dangerous, or at least challenging, for
> anybody who practices it, as is anything that works as reliably as
> TM does-- just because a little works well doesn't mean a lot will
> work better. a little TM goes an awfully long way.
>
> i suppose we could blame our mind and body for their infinite
> capacity and capability, and our hearts for wanting a rebirth in the
> belief that enlightenment is an achievable and sustainable state.
>
> i am glad that you are helping those who overdosed on TM, though i
> would not agree that it is the technique itself that is at fault
> here. nor am i in any way blaming those who ran into problems. just
> attempting a fresh and practical perspective on the TM technique,
> and the legitimate value to us of transcending regularly.
>
> >
> > J.
> > -
> > John M. Knapp, LMSW
> > Recovery from Toxic Groups, Abusive Churches & Cults
> > http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
>  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'm even more confused. What is your point? 
> 
> My point is that you are a sorry little fellow.
> Get a checking, and then a life !
>


I have a perfectly wonderful life -- now. I have the love of a wonderful woman, 
I have a 
family, I have a career that is fulfilling and pays the bills (most months), I 
have friends, I 
have many interests and passions. I have a happy, comfortable, productive, and 
fulfilling 
life.

I imagine that's true for many here, both practicing TMers and former TMers. I 
hope that's 
true for you as well.

I'm not sure how you've decided I'm a "sorry little fellow" and need a life. It 
seems to me 
we simply disagree on issues that are important to both of us.

I wonder, do you have the impression that every TM critic is a "sorry little 
fellow"? That 
seems awfully black and white, if that is the case.

But if it works for you, that's great.

J.

-
John M. Knapp, LMSW
Recovery from Toxic Groups, Abusive Churches & Cults
http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> From a friend. Post your recommendations and I'll forward them to her
and
> post her final collection.
>
>
>
> Hi All
> It is time to update the list of "Laugh-Out-Loud" movies.
> I asking for the names of movies that have made you laugh out loud
> (not just crack a grin)
> Ask your friends and family
> I will send out the upgraded list before Christmas.
> Be merry and bright
> Thanks
> Liz
>

The Matador,
Full Monty,
The Birdcage,

Also,

Carry on up the Jungle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ysrFnVKq8

Carry on up the Kybher:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8atKXFZefA&feature=related

Carry on Cowboy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEhV5TOApb4&feature=related


OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Since Willytex's post wasn't addressed to John,
> but rather was in response to a post of OffWorld
> that was commenting on an earlier post of 
> Willytex's quoting Geoff Coulson, I'm wondering if 
> John's assumption that it was addressed to him is 
> an example of the narcissism he's told us he still
> struggles with.
>

Judy,

It seems, as so often the case with your posts, that your main intent is to 
insult and hurt 
feelings. It's not always the case, but when you write to someone who disagrees 
with you, 
it seems the unremitting hostility of what you post is your main message, no 
matter where 
the conversation goes. I don't know you, of course, so I could be way off base. 
But it 
appears to me that you enjoy hurting others.

How does this square with your spiritual beliefs?

J.

-
John M. Knapp, LMSW
Recovery from Toxic Groups, Abusive Churches & Cults
http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html

[FairfieldLife] Charlie and Maharishi

[Rick Archer]

An account of early days with Maharishi by Charlie Lutes.

Subject:
http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/intro.php


Subject: http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/intro.php

 
 
 
>From The Himalayas to Hollywood A Personal Account of Maharishi's Early Days
By Charles F. Lutes
As Told to Martin Zucker

Martin Zucker
A Personal Note

For many years, Charles F. Lutes was closely involved in the efforts of
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to spread Transcendental Meditation around the world.
As Maharishi's personal representative in the United States, and his first
World Governor, "Charlie," as we all knew him, handled much of the TM
movement's business affairs and was a close advisor to the Indian master in
organizational and practical matters.

Charlie was one of Maharishi's first meditators in the United States and
helped establish the country's first major TM center in Los Angeles in 1959.
It was the meditators of Los Angeles who provided the funding to keep
Maharishi going in the early days of the movement.

A close personal friendship was formed and the two traveled together many
times as Maharishi brought his meditation crusade to the far corners of the
world. 

Soon after starting TM in 1975 my wife and I gravitated to Charlie's Friday
night lectures in the big hall on Santa Monica Blvd in West Los Angeles. We
soon formed fast friendships among the hundreds of meditators who regularly
attended. 

As a journalist, I became interested in the TM story and Charlie's droll
accounts of his "adventures" with Maharishi. One day I approached Charlie
about collaborating on a book that would revolve around Maharishi's one man
mission to end suffering in the world through meditation. The book was to be
written in Charlie's voice as a personalized and intimate account of
Maharishi's historically unprecedented and audacious mission.

Charlie obtained permission from Maharishi and we embarked on our project. I
spent hours taping conversations with Charlie, and going over clippings and
documents that he had collected. 

The project, unfortunately, was never completed. But we wrote and edited
four chapters. For many years the manuscript collected dust in a box along
with other notes and studies I used when I wrote magazine articles about TM.

After Charlie and his wife Helen passed away in 2001 I remembered the
chapters written twenty five years before. As I read them I felt a great
surge of love for Charlie and Helen, who served as surrogate father and
mother to so many of us, who handheld us, who advised us in times of
personal difficulties, and who, above all, inspired us to recognize the
towering majesty of Maharishi's knowledge and mission on Earth.

"Don't be a frog jumping from one thing to another. Stay on the path because
it is the highest teaching," Charlie would remind us all over and over. 

I know the Lutes' would wish that this narrative, although incomplete,
should find its way out to their legion of friends. It's sweet and endearing
and personal. And so I share it with love and gratitude to Charlie and
Helen. I hope you enjoy it.

Martin Zucker
Canoga Park CA Fall 2006

>From The Himalayas to Hollywood, A Personal Account of Maharishi's Early
Days By Charles F. Lutes; As Told to Martin Zucker
All text Copyright (C) Martin Zucker, 2006 and beyond.
___ 

Copyright C The Institute of Spiritual Sciences, 2006 and beyond. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

>  > , "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> >
> > From a friend. Post your recommendations and I'll forward them to
her
> and
> > post her final collection.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All
> > It is time to update the list of "Laugh-Out-Loud" movies.
> > I asking for the names of movies that have made you laugh out loud
> > (not just crack a grin)
> > Ask your friends and family
> > I will send out the upgraded list before Christmas.
> > Be merry and bright
> > Thanks
> > Liz
> >
>
> The Matador,
> Full Monty,
> The Birdcage,
>
> Also,
>
> Carry on up the Jungle:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ysrFnVKq8

>  >
> Carry on up the Kybher:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8atKXFZefA&feature=related

>  >
> Carry on Cowboy:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEhV5TOApb4&feature=related

>  >
>
> OffWorld
>

More from 'Carry on Cowboy' (a bunch of Brits pretending to be cowboys
in the mid 1960's):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU7jrW_NNPY&feature=related


OffWorld

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Getting Laid Off Before You Start

[Bhairitu]

TurquoiseB wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> I was just speaking with a friend who took a holiday job at 
>> Target. He told me that they hired a bunch of people for the 
>> holidays and then had to call them back to say to lay them 
>> off before they even worked one day! He said they were even 
>> cutting hours on existing employees. I haven't seen this 
>> reported in the MSM yet but it should be.  That's how 
>> bad it is getting.
>> 
>
> 
>
> The woman in question is originally Danish, and
> was saying that "back home" this would never have
> happened because Denmark never allowed its citizens
> to "spend more than they have." They've always had,
> and been proud of, a purely cash society. If you
> can't prove to a banker that you can't afford it,
> you can't buy it. As a result, Denmark's economy 
> is still pretty healthy, whereas countries like
> Spain and Ireland that adopted the "American model" 
> of pretending to be able to live a lifestyle they 
> really couldn't afford are in deep shit.
>
> It's going to be a long, cold winter.
Things may be going rotten in Denmark too:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aN4JAB8qmVwY

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[authfriend]

Wow, a little thin-skinned there, John, aren't you?

You goofed, and I poked a bit of fun at you. Instead
of acknowledging the goof and laughing at yourself,
you take a swing at me. Were you really insulted?
Were your feelings really hurt?

(It's also rather odd that you say you "don't know"
me, given our very long electronic acquaintance.)




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> 
> > Since Willytex's post wasn't addressed to John,
> > but rather was in response to a post of OffWorld
> > that was commenting on an earlier post of 
> > Willytex's quoting Geoff Coulson, I'm wondering if 
> > John's assumption that it was addressed to him is 
> > an example of the narcissism he's told us he still
> > struggles with.
> >
> 
> Judy,
> 
> It seems, as so often the case with your posts, that your main 
intent is to insult and hurt 
> feelings. It's not always the case, but when you write to someone 
who disagrees with you, 
> it seems the unremitting hostility of what you post is your main 
message, no matter where 
> the conversation goes. I don't know you, of course, so I could be 
way off base. But it 
> appears to me that you enjoy hurting others.
> 
> How does this square with your spiritual beliefs?
> 
> J.
> 
> -
> John M. Knapp, LMSW
> Recovery from Toxic Groups, Abusive Churches & Cults
> http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Question: What happens to "New Age" business in a depression?

[Bhairitu]

TurquoiseB wrote:
> I don't know the answer to this question, and am
> throwing it out to see what people here think. 
>
> To some extent, the proliferation of "New Age"
> business -- teaching expensive courses in medi-
> tation or self-help techniques, providing "pre-
> dictive services" like astrology, Jyotish, tarot,
> or other forms of what I consider bullshit but
> that many consider valuable "science," and 
> "evolved lifestyle" businesses such as organic 
> produce, "special" water filtering devices, etc. 
> -- all depend on a fairly healthy and flourishing 
> economy, or at least on the illusion of one.
>
> What will happen to such businesses as the illusion
> is revealed more and more to be exactly that, an
> illusion?
>
> Take astrology and Jyotish and "seers" who make
> money by charging people to tell them stuff they
> want to hear. That's pretty much a "luxury item,"
> economy-wise. Given a choice between feeding and
> clothing their kids or getting a new "life reading"
> from some new charlatan, what are "New Age" fam-
> ilies going to do? Are they going to continue to
> spend big bucks on the "comfort food" of being told
> comforting things about their high past-life profile
> and how so very, very important that makes them in
> the cosmic scheme of things, or are they going to
> save that money and buy necessities with it?
>
> I really don't know, and am interested in what the
> folks here think. I don't think we have a "past
> model" for this one, economically. Such businesses
> really weren't as common back during the previous 
> depression; the only clue we might get from that
> period is how well *religions* did when the times
> got tough. Is the desire to be told that things
> are not as bad as they seem greater than the need
> to feed ones kids and get through the month finan-
> cially? All good questions IMO. What do you think?
Many of these things did well during the Dot Com bubble here in the Bay 
Area.  People had a lot of expendable income so they "tried" things even 
if it was just a form of entertainment for them.  However after that 
bubble burst things dried up around here.  The "new age" bookstores that 
were in about every community disappeared leaving only a handful.  
Courses have dried up.

However history tells us that in dire times some of the "seers" 
flourished.  People get curious what the future holds.  But they don't 
have a lot of money to do so.  The wiser seers simply give shorter 
readings and charge less.  Same with things like meditation courses.  I 
predict hard times for overpriced TM courses.  People won't want to pay 
more for less of a meditation technique.

Survivalist stuff may do well.  Water filters may do well as well indoor 
gardening.

Some businesses that seem to be flourishing in my area: the Penny Ad 
circular seems to be fatter and getting more ads as people turn to it to 
selling stuff.  The coupon books and mailings are getting larger as 
businesses try to attack customers. 

I used to get an email ever so once in a while from Amazon but they are 
almost daily now and they and other places I've purchased from try to 
beat the bushes for customers.

Also because people have been laid off many are trying their hand and 
new small businesses.  I noticed this during the recession in the early 
90's (why does the Bush family seem to bring us economic problems).  I 
remember people setting up Christmas shopper businesses for those too 
busy to shop.  Again the Penny Ads and coupon books have little startups 
listed like this.

A few months back I Google'd "how to make money during a recession" as 
well as "how to make money during a depression."  The answer for both 
was the same: if you sell things then make lower priced versions of them 
that people can afford.  When I go to the store it is interesting to 
watch this happening even on the mega corporation level.  Lays now has a 
6 oz bag of potato chips for around $2.  Soup cans are getting smaller.  
Marie Callander reduced the size of their pot pies.  Archway and 
Grandm's cookies went out of business raising the prices on their 
cookies while Keebler reduced the size of their packages maintaining a 
lower price.

Trader Joe's has gone from a multipage flyer to a poster size mailing.  
They seem to be introducing fewer new things (part of the fun of 
shopping there was trying new things).   They reduced the size of some 
of their soup cans.  That will be an interesting store to watch during 
the great catastrophe.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Charlie and Maharishi

[curtisdeltablues]

That was really charming,thanks for posting this Rick.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> An account of early days with Maharishi by Charlie Lutes.
> 
> Subject:
> http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/intro.php
> 
> 
> Subject:
http://www.institutespiritualsciences.org/blog_lutes_book/intro.php
> 
>  
>  
>  
> From The Himalayas to Hollywood A Personal Account of Maharishi's
Early Days
> By Charles F. Lutes
> As Told to Martin Zucker
> 
> Martin Zucker
> A Personal Note
> 
> For many years, Charles F. Lutes was closely involved in the efforts of
> Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to spread Transcendental Meditation around the
world.
> As Maharishi's personal representative in the United States, and his
first
> World Governor, "Charlie," as we all knew him, handled much of the TM
> movement's business affairs and was a close advisor to the Indian
master in
> organizational and practical matters.
> 
> Charlie was one of Maharishi's first meditators in the United States and
> helped establish the country's first major TM center in Los Angeles
in 1959.
> It was the meditators of Los Angeles who provided the funding to keep
> Maharishi going in the early days of the movement.
> 
> A close personal friendship was formed and the two traveled together
many
> times as Maharishi brought his meditation crusade to the far corners
of the
> world. 
> 
> Soon after starting TM in 1975 my wife and I gravitated to Charlie's
Friday
> night lectures in the big hall on Santa Monica Blvd in West Los
Angeles. We
> soon formed fast friendships among the hundreds of meditators who
regularly
> attended. 
> 
> As a journalist, I became interested in the TM story and Charlie's droll
> accounts of his "adventures" with Maharishi. One day I approached
Charlie
> about collaborating on a book that would revolve around Maharishi's
one man
> mission to end suffering in the world through meditation. The book
was to be
> written in Charlie's voice as a personalized and intimate account of
> Maharishi's historically unprecedented and audacious mission.
> 
> Charlie obtained permission from Maharishi and we embarked on our
project. I
> spent hours taping conversations with Charlie, and going over
clippings and
> documents that he had collected. 
> 
> The project, unfortunately, was never completed. But we wrote and edited
> four chapters. For many years the manuscript collected dust in a box
along
> with other notes and studies I used when I wrote magazine articles
about TM.
> 
> After Charlie and his wife Helen passed away in 2001 I remembered the
> chapters written twenty five years before. As I read them I felt a great
> surge of love for Charlie and Helen, who served as surrogate father and
> mother to so many of us, who handheld us, who advised us in times of
> personal difficulties, and who, above all, inspired us to recognize the
> towering majesty of Maharishi's knowledge and mission on Earth.
> 
> "Don't be a frog jumping from one thing to another. Stay on the path
because
> it is the highest teaching," Charlie would remind us all over and over. 
> 
> I know the Lutes' would wish that this narrative, although incomplete,
> should find its way out to their legion of friends. It's sweet and
endearing
> and personal. And so I share it with love and gratitude to Charlie and
> Helen. I hope you enjoy it.
> 
> Martin Zucker
> Canoga Park CA Fall 2006
> 
> From The Himalayas to Hollywood, A Personal Account of Maharishi's Early
> Days By Charles F. Lutes; As Told to Martin Zucker
> All text Copyright (C) Martin Zucker, 2006 and beyond.
> ___ 
> 
> Copyright C The Institute of Spiritual Sciences, 2006 and beyond.
>

[FairfieldLife] Art of Obama

[authfriend]

http://www.artofobama.com


Selections from the "Obama art movement":
graphics, videos, graffiti, and more, 
including Obamabats (font set of Obama
dingbats, free to download for your use),
Obama as American saint, Obama cupcakes, 
Nanobama, Obama lawn painting, Obama finger
puppet, Obama sculpture in steel high-tension
wire, Obama zydeco video ("Oui, on peut"), 
Obama garage art, Obama as Superman, Obama
Victory Unicorn...etc.

(This isn't satire; the site is in support
of Obama.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Climate Crisis - News for Shemp

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hey Shemp, It's called the "watermelon effect" green on the 
outside, 
> red on the inside. That's what the hard core new agers have morphed 
> into.



I like that!

Did you come up with that?  Or did you read it somewhere?

If so, where?




> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> > >
> > > This Arctic methane gas issue is going to be the topic on 
today's 
> > Talk of
> > > the Nation - Science Friday on NPR.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Hey, Rick, didn't you know that everyone at NPR are communists?
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: was:Robin Carlsen; now: RWC & Vaj -same person ?

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> She almost always overplays her hand Curtis.
> 

> I'll be perfectly honest: I don't know any men 
> who hate women. I'm not saying they don't exist, 
> but no matter how far I stretch my memory, I 
> cannot think of one friend who actually hates 
> women, in thought or actions. I also can't see 
> any of the men on this list as being "women 
> haters".

Here's the fallacy: Vaj insists on using the strict
technical, dictionary definition of "misogyny."

But as he knows, that isn't how raunchy or I, or
feminists generally, use it.

>From Wikipedia (my comments in brackets):

--
Traditional feminist theorists propose many 
different forms of misogyny. In its most overt
expression, a misogynist will openly hate all
women simply because they are female.

[That's the definition Vaj is using in his
attempt to portray raunchy (and me) as man-haters,
a standard response by sexist men to complaints
from women. But it's a straw man.]

Other forms of misogyny may be less overt. Some
misogynists may simply be prejudiced against all
women, or may hate women who do not fall into one
or more acceptable categories. Entire cultures may
be said to be misogynist if they treat women in
ways that can be seen as harmful.

...Subscribers to one model, the mother/whore
dichotomy, hold that women can only be "mothers" or
"whores."...

[Vaj characterizes raunchy as a whore: "an old
bassett-bitch baring her genitalia at every passing
male."]

Frequently, the term misogynist is used in a looser
sense as a term of derision to describe anyone who
holds an unpopular or distasteful view about women
as a group. A man who considers himself "a great
lover of women," therefore, might somewhat
paradoxically be termed a misogynist by those who
consider this treatment of women to be sexist.
Archetypes of this type of man might be Giacomo
Casanova and Don Juan, who were both reputed for
their many libertine affairs with women.

[Or, e.g., Barry, at least according to his self-
repute.]

Misogyny is a negative attitude towards women as
a group, and so need not fully determine a
misogynist's attitude towards each individual woman.
The fact that someone holds misogynist views may not
prevent him or her from having positive
relationships with some women.

[A point I've made a number of times here.]

Conversely, simply having negative relationships
with some women does not necessarily mean someone
holds misogynistic views.

[Certainly not. But when a man uses misogynistic
language against women with whom he has a negative
relationship, as I've also pointed out, it reveals
an underlying tendency to think negatively of
women. Men who have no such tendency are very
unlikely to use misogynistic language against
women they don't like.]

The term, like most negative descriptions of
attitudes, is used as an epithet and applied to a
wide variety of behaviors and attitudes.

[Yes, it's used here as an epithet, but that's far
from the only way it's used. It's an entirely
appropriate descriptive term as well, in the
broader senses described above, which is how
raunchy and I have been using it.]
--

> It's just such off-base rhetoric that I'm  
> forced to look at the imbalanced person the 
> remarks come from. It actually forces me to
> draw the only reasonable conclusion which is  
> that these self-proclaimed feminists are men-
> haters at heart. They're posing as feminists
> in order to attempt to hide their own deep-
> seated ill will.

As I noted, this is the standard tactic of
denigrating and dismissing women's complaints
about sexism and misogyny. (The corollary
insults, which Barry and Vaj have both used,
are that we're either (a) so unattractive
that we can't get any male attention, which
is why we're man-haters; or (b) we're lesbians
--which they mean as an insult, revealing
their homophobia on top of their misogyny.)

Vaj is not, of course, "forced" to come to this
conclusion; it isn't even a remotely *reasonable*
conclusion. It's an incredibly self-serving
conclusion that allows him to refrain from
examining his attitudes and those of other men
here, Barry and Peter in particular, and to 
demonize women for objecting to such attitudes.

[FairfieldLife] An interesting meeting in 1959

[nablusoss1008]

    
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CHAPTER ONE
East Meets West
  [H.H. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi with Charlie and Helen Lutes, 1960]

Nicky and I were out, as usual, taking our nightly constitutional along
Ventura Boulevard. For me, the walking was good exercise and a relaxing
form of therapy, an attempt to flush out the tension built up during a
day of business activity. Nicky, of course, loved it. A dog needs his
exercise after being cooped up in the backyard all day and our little
Cocker Spaniel was no exception.

It was a pleasant evening around the beginning of 1959.

Nicky was doing his thing, intently exploring the doggy wonders of the
sidewalk world, and I was absent-mindedly window gazing and mulling over
the day's events.

>From out of nowhere, so it seemed, a stranger approached. He was
distinguished-looking, well-dressed, middle-aged. He greeted me and
expressed admiration for the dog.

"Yes," I said, 'Nicky' is quite an animal. We are even thinking of
sending him off to culinary school so he can cook and earn his keep."

The man laughed but immediately turned serious and said, "Very great
indeed is your good fortune because shortly you will meet a master of
this earth and our time who is going to have great impact on the world
with his teaching. And you will become very close to him."

Before I had a chance to respond, the man bid me good night and walked
briskly away down the street and turned the corner.

The strange encounter seemed to have paralyzed me right in my tracks. By
the time I got myself in motion again it must have been a full minute. I
hurried to the corner to find the man and ask for an explanation. How
did he know all that?

I reached the corner and saw no one. He couldn't have gone very far, yet
he had seemingly vanished. I had never seen him before and I never saw
him again.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Going out with a song...

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is s much better than the standard Judy
> Barry fare.  Dawn, you bring the dialog to an 
> much more elevated and enjoyable level.  I enjoy 
> Raunchy too, but you get to the heart of the 
> matter without a lot of extra noise. Good stuff.

Agree totally. It's such a pleasure to be able 
to just sit back and watch a master do the heavy
lifting, and without any apparent effort!

Interesting, though, how both she and raunchy nail
Barry and Vaj with exactly the same points I've 
been making about them for years. So it seems I'm
not the only one to consider them phonies.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> i stayed away from mentioning TM deliberately, and focused instead 
> on the benefits of transcending. it is too easy to confuse the 
> practice of transcending with the practice of TM, and miss the point 
> of the practice by vilifying the method. i think that has happened 
> to so many people.
> 
> when i said that transcendence is necessary in order for us to not 
> be at the affect of the world and our resulting anxieties, that is 
> what i meant. many, if not all, of those that have problems with TM 
> did it too much, for whatever reason, without some balancing action 
> to integrate the practice. 
> 
> too much transcending can cause profound disassociation from the 
> world, keeping the cloth wet with yellow dye, never allowing the 
> cloth to fade and fix in the sunshine of activity. living in an 
> unstable world that continuously and profoundly changes, without 
> stabilizing and settling down, without developing the capacity to 
> have a stable personality; neither fully established in Being, nor 
> wholly absent from it, a deeply uncomfortable place to be.

This is why the TMO has a screening process for the Sidhi's looking
for signs of mental/emotional/physical imbalance that would cause the
applicant difficulty during a long rounding in the vat, soaking in the
yellow dye. On my TTC two people had mental breakdowns and left the
course. After 6 months of TTC rounding, the only thing that kept me
balanced was asnas and food. 

After AEGTC activity was the only thing that saved me from feeling
space-out, wacky and agitated by mood swings. I would force myself to
keep physically busy even if I felt inclined to stay in the very
enticing bliss of a long program. To get myself moving I invented a
self-motivator, "Out of the head and into the body" and that seemed to
work for me. I thought of it as squeezing the bliss from inside to
outside, but an occasional hamburger worked almost as well.

Folks stop TM for a lot of different reasons. I can see how difficult
it is for some to integrate into activity for whatever reason.
Unfortunately, they usually find external reasons to blame the TMO,
like the claptrap about Maharishi being a lecher, to which I say, So
what." I have a long list of complaints as well, but it doesn't
diminish the value of TM in my life. 

I read John's list of psychological disorders, which could be gotten
off the internet, and the list of symptoms could apply to anyone
regardless of involvement with a cult.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11
> 
> I read John's list of psychological disorders, which could be gotten
> off the internet, and the list of symptoms could apply to anyone
> regardless of involvement with a cult.
>

 Actually, some of the symptoms are quite rare. Complex PTSD, which summarizes 
the 
majority of the symptoms, may appear in the next DSM. It's due to trauma that 
is 
prolonged, such as experienced in captivity. I believe a good number of the 
people I am 
working with face that challenge.

The good news is that it is possible to recover -- or at least greatly 
alleviate -- the 
symptoms of complex PTSD.

But  you are right in this: Someone undergoing trauma no matter what the cause 
might 
very well have many of them. The point is not so much the uniqueness of the 
symptoms as 
identifying the challenges that former cult members may face. The symptoms 
don't define 
the client, rather the symptoms and their cause: Trauma at the hands of a toxic 
group.

 I believe, but don't know, that the TM population faces these symptoms at 
higher rates 
than the population. Hard to tell without significant research, though. The 
population I 
work with are self-selected for needing to see a counselor -- so by definition 
have 
problems.

J.

-
John M. Knapp, LMSW
Recovery from Toxic Groups, Abusive Churches & Cults
http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Wow, a little thin-skinned there, John, aren't you?
> 
> You goofed, and I poked a bit of fun at you. Instead
> of acknowledging the goof and laughing at yourself,
> you take a swing at me. Were you really insulted?
> Were your feelings really hurt?
> 
> (It's also rather odd that you say you "don't know"
> me, given our very long electronic acquaintance.)

Well, let's expand my point a little further: Your sense of humor seems to 
consist of 
attempting to make fun of the imagined failings of people who disagree with 
you. You're 
doing it in your response above as well. 

The only purpose I can see for this is to hurt feelings and feel superior. I 
encourage you to 
put me right if you have some other purpose in mind.

I certainly don't know you. You and I have traded electrons on glowing screens 
over the 
years. But it seems to me that's not enough to know someone. I have no idea 
what your 
motivations are, what you enjoy doing, what your passions in life are, etc. 
It's possible 
that in person, nonverbal cues would give an entirely cast to what your written 
words 
convey to me.

Judging someone on the basis of public writings seems to ignore a lot of what 
makes a 
person a person to me.

Unrelenting sarcasm, which is always intended to cause pain, is what comes 
across to me 
from your writings when dealing with people you disagree with. But I'm open to 
the 
possibility that you're a wonderful person when met in real life.

If memory serves, you live somewhere in the New York area. I'm down there 
occasionally. 
In fact, I may have an interview in January. 

Care to get together for coffee? It could be fun! 

I'm not to convince you of anything -- other than perhaps I'm a human with good 
points 
and bad. Not a demon. And I'd love to have a face to put together with your 
posts. Perhaps 
your writings would hit me differently if I did in fact know you.

Perhaps we could convince each other that we are intelligent, creative people 
who just 
happen to disagree on some matters that are important to us.

J.

-
John M. Knapp, LMSW
Recovery from Toxic Groups, Abusive Churches & Cults
http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11
> > 
> > I read John's list of psychological disorders, which could be gotten
> > off the internet, and the list of symptoms could apply to anyone
> > regardless of involvement with a cult.
> >
> 
>  Actually, some of the symptoms are quite rare. Complex PTSD, which
summarizes the 
> majority of the symptoms, may appear in the next DSM. It's due to
trauma that is 
> prolonged, such as experienced in captivity. I believe a good number
of the people I am 
> working with face that challenge.
> 
> The good news is that it is possible to recover -- or at least
greatly alleviate -- the 
> symptoms of complex PTSD.
> 
> But  you are right in this: Someone undergoing trauma no matter what
the cause might 
> very well have many of them. The point is not so much the uniqueness
of the symptoms as 
> identifying the challenges that former cult members may face. The
symptoms don't define 
> the client, rather the symptoms and their cause: Trauma at the hands
of a toxic group.

People who think they need help for whatever reason should get help
and they should. But how do you know they need help because of an
affiliation with a cult? Just because a symptom is rare do not mean it
is because of a cult.  If they come to you for a specific reason i.e.
"toxic cult syndrome" or whatever you want to call it, it may exclude
exploring other causes for their problem. Focusing on "cult" as the
source of their difficulty keeps them in external blame mode. Not good. 

>  I believe, but don't know, that the TM population faces these
symptoms at higher rates 
> than the population. Hard to tell without significant research,
though. The population I 
> work with are self-selected for needing to see a counselor -- so by
definition have 
> problems.

Exactly my point. "How do you know if it's the chicken or the egg?"

[FairfieldLife] Re: An interesting meeting in 1959

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
I recognize Charlie and Maharishi. I'm guessing the woman on the left
is Charlie's wife. Who is the Indian woman?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > Wow, a little thin-skinned there, John, aren't you?
> > 
> > You goofed, and I poked a bit of fun at you. Instead
> > of acknowledging the goof and laughing at yourself,
> > you take a swing at me. Were you really insulted?
> > Were your feelings really hurt?
> > 
> > (It's also rather odd that you say you "don't know"
> > me, given our very long electronic acquaintance.)
> 
> Well, let's expand my point a little further: Your
> sense of humor seems to consist of attempting to
> make fun of the imagined failings of people who
> disagree with you.

"Imagined"? You *did* make a goof, assuming a post
was addressed to you when it clearly was not (which
you haven't acknowledged, let alone laughed at); and
you *did* tell us yourself, at some length, that you
struggled with narcissism.

The "making fun" part involved putting those two
things together. And I'd have been as just likely to
do that with somebody I *did* agree with.

> You're doing it in your response above as well.

Not a thing "imagined" in my response, John.


> Care to get together for coffee? It could be fun!

Not my idea of fun, sorry.

> And I'd love to have a face to put together with
> your posts.

You can see a photo of me in the Photos section of
the FFL Web site if you're interested.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > Wow, a little thin-skinned there, John, aren't you?
> > 
> > You goofed, and I poked a bit of fun at you. Instead
> > of acknowledging the goof and laughing at yourself,
> > you take a swing at me. Were you really insulted?
> > Were your feelings really hurt?
> > 
> > (It's also rather odd that you say you "don't know"
> > me, given our very long electronic acquaintance.)
> 
> Well, let's expand my point a little further: Your sense of humor
seems to consist of 
> attempting to make fun of the imagined failings of people who
disagree with you. You're 
> doing it in your response above as well. 
> 
> The only purpose I can see for this is to hurt feelings and feel
superior. I encourage you to 
> put me right if you have some other purpose in mind.
> 
> I certainly don't know you. You and I have traded electrons on
glowing screens over the 
> years. But it seems to me that's not enough to know someone. I have
no idea what your 
> motivations are, what you enjoy doing, what your passions in life
are, etc. It's possible 
> that in person, nonverbal cues would give an entirely cast to what
your written words 
> convey to me.
> 
> Judging someone on the basis of public writings seems to ignore a
lot of what makes a 
> person a person to me.
> 
> Unrelenting sarcasm, which is always intended to cause pain, is what
comes across to me 
> from your writings when dealing with people you disagree with. But
I'm open to the 
> possibility that you're a wonderful person when met in real life.
> 
> If memory serves, you live somewhere in the New York area. I'm down
there occasionally. 
> In fact, I may have an interview in January. 
> 
> Care to get together for coffee? It could be fun! 
> 
> I'm not to convince you of anything -- other than perhaps I'm a
human with good points 
> and bad. Not a demon. And I'd love to have a face to put together
with your posts. Perhaps 
> your writings would hit me differently if I did in fact know you.
> 
> Perhaps we could convince each other that we are intelligent,
creative people who just 
> happen to disagree on some matters that are important to us.
> 
> J.

Judy, Is it a date? It's a lovely invitation. Maybe everyone on FF
Life should get together for coffee and put names to faces. I'm more
of the opinion it doesn't make a difference, you can still tell an
skunk by it's stripe. Besides, I prefer remaining anonymous with my
Nom de Plume. John's off kilter assessment IMO of you sounds like he
has you confused with Barry. It must be a guy thing, flummoxed by
women, if you know what I mean.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> Judy, Is it a date? It's a lovely invitation.
> Maybe everyone on FF Life should get together
> for coffee and put names to faces.

It can be fun to get together with people you've
come to like; at least that's been my experience.

 I'm more of
> the opinion it doesn't make a difference, you
> can still tell an skunk by it's stripe. Besides,
> I prefer remaining anonymous with my Nom de
> Plume. John's off kilter assessment IMO of you
> sounds like he has you confused with Barry. It
> must be a guy thing, flummoxed by women, if you
> know what I mean.

I don't really think that's his problem, actually.

He and I have a very long electronic history.
That's what he's reacting to, rather than my post.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> People who think they need help for whatever reason should get help
> and they should. But how do you know they need help because of an
> affiliation with a cult? Just because a symptom is rare do not mean it
> is because of a cult.  If they come to you for a specific reason i.e.
> "toxic cult syndrome" or whatever you want to call it, it may exclude
> exploring other causes for their problem. Focusing on "cult" as the
> source of their difficulty keeps them in external blame mode. Not good. 

Well, you are making some assumptions that aren't really warranted -- and 
raising some 
questions that are interesting.

Naturally, if a person has other traumatic events or other problems than 
cult-related we 
deal with those too.

How can you PROVE that a person was traumatized by molestation -- and not 
something 
else? You can look at statistics that suggest a host of problems presented by 
people who 
were molested. You can find that the problems are presented more frequently by 
molestation survivors than the general population.

To some that isn't proof. 

Similarly, I have a rather large sample of cult veterans who have presented 
with a set of 
symptoms -- apparently more frequently than the population at large. I think 
it's highly 
likely that the symptoms are brought about by a cultic relationship between the 
individual 
and the group. 

That isn't proof to some.

What I do know is that most people who work with me have happier lives by the 
time we're 
done with our time together. That's more important to me than the cause of 
their pain.

And, I'm not by temperament a researcher. I enjoy direct care. I leave proof of 
causation to 
researchers.

Some therapists have specializations. That doesn't mean it sums up all their 
work or 
precludes work on other issues.

This would be like saying someone who specializes in rape trauma has no 
business 
treating depression. 

A therapist, or person, can be many things.

BTW, about a third of my practice has nothing to do with cults. LIke many with 
a specialty, 
I find it refreshing to work with a variety of clients and challenges.

To be honest, in my work -- which is greatly influence by cognitive therapy -- 
the cause 
of pain or dysfunction is less important than finding relief in the here and 
now.

I work with the challenges that a client identifies -- like pretty much any 
therapist does. I 
don't spend a great deal of time on the history of the problem. We put most of 
our effort 
into finding relief from whatever pain or discomfort they're experiencing.

> 
> >  I believe, but don't know, that the TM population faces these
> symptoms at higher rates 
> > than the population. Hard to tell without significant research,
> though. The population I 
> > work with are self-selected for needing to see a counselor -- so by
> definition have 
> > problems.
> 
> Exactly my point. "How do you know if it's the chicken or the egg?"
>
 
I don't. It doesn't matter as much to me as you might imagine.

I work with the client's definition of the problem. I don't try to convince 
anyone that they 
have a cult-related problem. I don't try to convince them that they don't. 

We simply work together to explore actions that may increase their comfort.

I write a bit on the problem of cult definition and my own proposed solution in 
discussing 
cultic relationships at http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cultdefine.html .

Thanks for raising the questions. If they occurred to you it's likely they 
occurred to others. 
I appreciate you taking the time to express concerns.

J.

-
John M. Knapp, LMSW
Recovery from Toxic Groups, Abusive Churches & Cults
http://KnappFamilyCounseling.com/cults.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[John M. Knapp, LMSW]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Imagined"? You *did* make a goof, assuming a post
> was addressed to you when it clearly was not (which
> you haven't acknowledged, let alone laughed at); and
> you *did* tell us yourself, at some length, that you
> struggled with narcissism.

I think you have made a basic mistake. You have attributed a mistake to me that 
I didn't 
make. I replied to the post because it referred to TM critics, not me. I think 
it's invalid to 
paint critics with a broad brush -- just as it is invalid to pan TM 
practitioners as a group.

And you continue to indulge in picking at imagined flaws in your current post 
as well.

> 
> The "making fun" part involved putting those two
> things together. And I'd have been as just likely to
> do that with somebody I *did* agree with.

Perhaps so. I'd be surprised if either party would enjoy what many would 
perceive as an 
attempt to humiliate -- and extraordinary concern with very minor matters!

> 
> > You're doing it in your response above as well.
> 
> Not a thing "imagined" in my response, John.

We see it differently.

> 
> 
> > Care to get together for coffee? It could be fun!
> 
> Not my idea of fun, sorry.
> 
> > And I'd love to have a face to put together with
> > your posts.
> 
> You can see a photo of me in the Photos section of
> the FFL Web site if you're interested.
>

That's just more virtual experience that gives me no idea of you as a person.

I'm quite comfortable imagining you could be a pleasant person in real life. 
Posting in a 
forum tells me little about who you really are.

I wonder if you could imagine me being a quite pleasant person in 3D?

J.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > 
> > You can see a photo of me in the Photos section of
> > the FFL Web site if you're interested.
> >
> 
> That's just more virtual experience that gives me no idea of you as
a person.
> 
> I'm quite comfortable imagining you could be a pleasant person in
real life. Posting in a 
> forum tells me little about who you really are.
> 
> I wonder if you could imagine me being a quite pleasant person in 
> 3D?

Your web picture looks nice. Send a pair of those red and green
cardboard glasses so we can get a 3D look at you.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > "Imagined"? You *did* make a goof, assuming a post
> > was addressed to you when it clearly was not (which
> > you haven't acknowledged, let alone laughed at); and
> > you *did* tell us yourself, at some length, that you
> > struggled with narcissism.
> 
> I think you have made a basic mistake. You have
> attributed a mistake to me that I didn't make.
> I replied to the post because it referred to TM
> critics, not me. I think it's invalid to paint
> critics with a broad brush -- just as it is
> invalid to pan TM practitioners as a group.

Oh, please, John, don't embarrass yourself.
Anybody can look up the post on the Web site and
see for themselves; it's #200650. Unless you
consider yourself a "TMO-basher," Willytex's post
had nothing to do with you; you're
misrepresenting both what he said and your
response.


> I wonder if you could imagine me being a quite
> pleasant person in 3D?

I have absolutely no doubt that you simply ooze
charm in person.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

>  > , off_world_beings 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

>  >
> > 
>  > > , "Rick Archer" 
wrote:
> > >
> > > From a friend. Post your recommendations and I'll forward them to
> her
> > and
> > > post her final collection.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi All
> > > It is time to update the list of "Laugh-Out-Loud" movies.
> > > I asking for the names of movies that have made you laugh out loud
> > > (not just crack a grin)
> > > Ask your friends and family
> > > I will send out the upgraded list before Christmas.
> > > Be merry and bright
> > > Thanks
> > > Liz
> > >
> >
> > The Matador,
> > Full Monty,
> > The Birdcage,
> >
> > Also,
> >
> > Carry on up the Jungle:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ysrFnVKq8

>  >
> > 
>  > >
> > Carry on up the Kybher:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8atKXFZefA&feature=related

>  >
> > 
>  > >
> > Carry on Cowboy:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEhV5TOApb4&feature=related

>  >
> > 
>  > >
> >
> > OffWorld
> >
>
> More from 'Carry on Cowboy' (a bunch of Brits pretending to be cowboys
> in the mid 1960's):
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU7jrW_NNPY&feature=related

>  >
>
> OffWorld
>

Carry on Cleo:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

>  > , off_world_beings 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

>  >
> > 
>  > > , "Rick Archer" 
wrote:
> > >
> > > From a friend. Post your recommendations and I'll forward them to
> her
> > and
> > > post her final collection.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi All
> > > It is time to update the list of "Laugh-Out-Loud" movies.
> > > I asking for the names of movies that have made you laugh out loud
> > > (not just crack a grin)
> > > Ask your friends and family
> > > I will send out the upgraded list before Christmas.
> > > Be merry and bright
> > > Thanks
> > > Liz
> > >
> >
> > The Matador,
> > Full Monty,
> > The Birdcage,
> >
> > Also,
> >
> > Carry on up the Jungle:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ysrFnVKq8

>  >
> > 
>  > >
> > Carry on up the Kybher:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8atKXFZefA&feature=related

>  >
> > 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

>  > , "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> >
> > From a friend. Post your recommendations and I'll forward them to
her
> and
> > post her final collection.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All
> > It is time to update the list of "Laugh-Out-Loud" movies.
> > I asking for the names of movies that have made you laugh out loud
> > (not just crack a grin)
> > Ask your friends and family
> > I will send out the upgraded list before Christmas.
> > Be merry and bright
> > Thanks
> > Liz>>

The Matador:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yld9sqRLCRs


OffWorld

Re: [FairfieldLife] Purusha Celebration next Saturday, Dec. 13th!

[Sal Sunshine]

On Dec 6, 2008, at 5:08 PM, Rick Archer wrote:


Dear Friend of Purusha,
?
All men in the Fairfield community are warmly invited to attend a  
grand Celebration marking the second Anniversary of Maharishi's  
Purusha Program joining the Invincible America Assembly.? We look  
forward to seeing our honored friends and supporters, as well as  
single men who may be considering Purusha life.


I imagine you'll be the first one in the door, Rick?

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: An interesting meeting in 1959

[Randy Meltzer]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> >
> I recognize Charlie and Maharishi. I'm guessing the woman on the left
> is Charlie's wife. Who is the Indian woman?
>
Everyone called her Mataji.  She is described in the Olsen Book, Hermit 
in the House.
I met her just last month in India.  She now is in her 80's, lives in 
Rishikesh and it turns out she was the first woman initiated by Guru 
Dev.

[FairfieldLife] 'Happiness Expands= Similar to Maharishi Effect'

[Robert]

Originally posted: December 5, 2008

Happiness is contagious, new study shows




You may think your attentive spouse, your loving children and your good friends 
are what make you happy. But something else may be going on: The people they're 
connected with are making you happy too. 
So suggests a new study proposing that happiness is transmitted through social 
networks, almost like a germ is spread through personal contact. The research 
was published Thursday in BMJ, a British medical journal.
It's the latest in a growing body of work investigating how our social 
connections—neighbors, friends, family, co-workers, fellow congregants at 
church and other associates—affect us. The premise is that we live in a social 
environment that shapes what we do and how we think and feel.
"We've known for some time that social relationships are the best predictor of 
human happiness, and this paper shows that the effect is much more powerful 
than anyone realized," said Daniel Gilbert, author of "Stumbling on Happiness" 
and a professor of psychology at Harvard University.
Previous research by the authors, James Fowler of the University of 
California-San Diego, and Dr. Nicholas Christakis at Harvard, has concluded 
that social networks influence obesity and tobacco use by altering perceptions 
of acceptable weight and desirable behavior.
Now they've turned their attention to the emotional realm, exploring how social 
ties influence our moods and our sense of well-being. Their primary finding: 
People who are surrounded by happy people are more likely to be happy 
themselves. And it's not only people in our immediate circles who make a 
difference—it's the people surrounding the people we know.
Imagine several pebbles thrown into a pool of water that send ripples outward, 
said Fowler, an associate professor of political science. Each pebble 
represents a happy person and the waves the impact of that person's mood on 
others. This impact, his study found, extends through several degrees of 
separation, to the friends of a person's friends.
Some experts question whether the researchers' statistical methodology can 
support that conclusion. It's difficult to sort out cause and effect in this 
kind of research and the authors may not have done so with enough rigor, said 
Charles Manski, a Northwestern University economics professor who studies how 
inferences can be drawn from social interactions.
He asks, is it that one person's happiness makes another person happy, or could 
it be that another factor experienced by both people is affecting both?
Say two friends are watching a TV show together, and one laughs after the other 
does, Manski said. It may look like the first person's chuckle is the cause of 
the second, but the jokes on the TV show might inspire both reactions.
Christakis said his research factored out such mutual influences. 
The study asked the subjects—4,739 participants in the famous Framingham Heart 
Study in Massachusetts—to complete a survey including four questions relating 
to happiness three times between 1983 and 2003. They also provided information 
about social contacts, which allow researchers to map their connections.
The study found that happy people form clusters and the happiest people are 
those most centrally located in the clusters. 
"If you imagine the fabric of humanity as a patchwork quilt, it turns out if 
you're happy or not depends on if you're in a happy or unhappy patch," 
Christakis said. 
"We postulate that people who are in closer, more frequent contact with each 
other are more susceptible to catching each other's moods," Fowler said.
The researchers stress that personal factors such as jobs or marriages also 
affect happiness and that although happiness may fluctuate, people tend to 
return to a personal happiness "set point" over time. It is this relatively 
stable emotional condition they examined in the paper, not the fleeting moods 
people experience day to day.
Richard Suzman, director of the division of behavior and social research at the 
National Institute on Aging, said the line of research holds "enormous promise 
in helping us improve interventions aimed at helping people change behaviors 
and improving public health."
Such interventions may involve targeted programs designed to alter social 
networks that influence behavior. The institute on aging has provided funding 
for Fowler and Christakis' work.
An editorial accompanying the report in BMJ called its conclusions "intriguing" 
but advised caution. Framingham, a relatively small community, may prove unique 
in ways not yet understood, wrote Peter Sainsbury, director of population 
health in Sydney South West Area Health Service in Australia.
THE RESULTS:
According to the new study on happiness and social networks, your probability 
of being happy rises:
    *15.3 percent if a friend or family member is happy
    *9.8 percent if friends of your friend or family member are happy
    *5.6 percent if friends 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11
> > 
> > I read John's list of psychological disorders, which could be gotten
> > off the internet, and the list of symptoms could apply to anyone
> > regardless of involvement with a cult.
> >
> 
>  Actually, some of the symptoms are quite rare. Complex PTSD, which 
> summarizes the 
> majority of the symptoms, may appear in the next DSM. It's due to trauma that 
> is 
> prolonged, such as experienced in captivity. I believe a good number of the 
> people I am 
> working with face that challenge.
> 
> The good news is that it is possible to recover -- or at least greatly 
> alleviate -- the 
> symptoms of complex PTSD.
> 
> But  you are right in this: Someone undergoing trauma no matter what the 
> cause might 
> very well have many of them. The point is not so much the uniqueness of the 
> symptoms 
as 
> identifying the challenges that former cult members may face. The symptoms 
> don't 
define 
> the client, rather the symptoms and their cause: Trauma at the hands of a 
> toxic group.
> 
>  I believe, but don't know, that the TM population faces these symptoms at 
> higher rates 
> than the population. Hard to tell without significant research, though. The 
> population I 
> work with are self-selected for needing to see a counselor -- so by 
> definition have 
> problems.
> 
> J.

Ironically, TM is recommended for PTSD victims. It would be hard to make a 
case that the technique itself, even if used too much, is the cause of the 
problem, 
though, it conceivably could contribute to behavioral issues that exacerbate
 teh problem if you're "over medicating" yourself.

But that is true with anything, and in fact, I was taught to NOT go on extended 
rounding if my problems were becoming worse after doing more meditation than
usual--especially when concerning the TM-SIdhis.

L

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
>  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Wow, a little thin-skinned there, John, aren't you?
> > > 
> > > You goofed, and I poked a bit of fun at you. Instead
> > > of acknowledging the goof and laughing at yourself,
> > > you take a swing at me. Were you really insulted?
> > > Were your feelings really hurt?
> > > 
> > > (It's also rather odd that you say you "don't know"
> > > me, given our very long electronic acquaintance.)
> > 
> > Well, let's expand my point a little further: Your sense of humor
> seems to consist of 
> > attempting to make fun of the imagined failings of people who
> disagree with you. You're 
> > doing it in your response above as well. 
> > 
> > The only purpose I can see for this is to hurt feelings and feel
> superior. I encourage you to 
> > put me right if you have some other purpose in mind.
> > 
> > I certainly don't know you. You and I have traded electrons on
> glowing screens over the 
> > years. But it seems to me that's not enough to know someone. I have
> no idea what your 
> > motivations are, what you enjoy doing, what your passions in life
> are, etc. It's possible 
> > that in person, nonverbal cues would give an entirely cast to what
> your written words 
> > convey to me.
> > 
> > Judging someone on the basis of public writings seems to ignore a
> lot of what makes a 
> > person a person to me.
> > 
> > Unrelenting sarcasm, which is always intended to cause pain, is what
> comes across to me 
> > from your writings when dealing with people you disagree with. But
> I'm open to the 
> > possibility that you're a wonderful person when met in real life.
> > 
> > If memory serves, you live somewhere in the New York area. I'm down
> there occasionally. 
> > In fact, I may have an interview in January. 
> > 
> > Care to get together for coffee? It could be fun! 
> > 
> > I'm not to convince you of anything -- other than perhaps I'm a
> human with good points 
> > and bad. Not a demon. And I'd love to have a face to put together
> with your posts. Perhaps 
> > your writings would hit me differently if I did in fact know you.
> > 
> > Perhaps we could convince each other that we are intelligent,
> creative people who just 
> > happen to disagree on some matters that are important to us.
> > 
> > J.
> 
> Judy, Is it a date? It's a lovely invitation. Maybe everyone on FF
> Life should get together for coffee and put names to faces. I'm more
> of the opinion it doesn't make a difference, you can still tell an
> skunk by it's stripe. Besides, I prefer remaining anonymous with my
> Nom de Plume. John's off kilter assessment IMO of you sounds like he
> has you confused with Barry. It must be a guy thing, flummoxed by
> women, if you know what I mean.
>


John's interactions with Judy often resembled Barry's interactions, IIRC.

Judy doesn't suffer fools without challenge and those she consider fools
often react to her challenges  in similar ways.

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: An interesting meeting in 1959

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Meltzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> > >
> > I recognize Charlie and Maharishi. I'm guessing the woman on the left
> > is Charlie's wife. Who is the Indian woman?
> >
> Everyone called her Mataji.  She is described in the Olsen Book, Hermit 
> in the House.
> I met her just last month in India.  She now is in her 80's, lives in 
> Rishikesh and it turns out she was the first woman initiated by Guru 
> Dev.
>

She used to hand-crush grapes for MMY if its the same woman.

He apparently was getting tired of that because when she ran out of grapes
one day, he praised her up and down for thinking he might like variety when
she offered him orange juice instead.


awson

[FairfieldLife] Spiritually Hot in FF

[dhamiltony2k5]

In celebration of Werner's birthday on Wednesday, 
there will be a special recital of

Ancient Voice


Time: Wednesday 7:30 pm, December 10
Place: Divine Mother Church - east entrance by alley behind 51 N. 
Court

Admission: By donation (suggested $0-20)



* * *

The music of Ancient Voice is inspired by the ancient North Indian 
vocal style known as Dhrupad, which traces its origins back to Sama 
Veda. This music is profoundly spiritual and is primarily intended to 
guide the listener to a very silent and meditative level of 
consciousness. The emphasis is not on entertainment or virtuosi 
display of rapid ornaments, but rather on deep exploration of the 
purity of microtones and overtones and the interplay between 
consciousness and sound. This recital features vocalist Werner 
Elmker, accompanied by Tamboura.




-- 
More information about Ancient Voice at
www.Elmker.com 

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): Sat Dec 06 00:00:00 2008
End Date (UTC): Sat Dec 13 00:00:00 2008
77 messages as of (UTC) Sat Dec 06 19:37:52 2008

 9 authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 7 raunchydog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 7 off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 6 TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 6 "John M. Knapp, LMSW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 4 nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 4 Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 4 Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 3 sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 3 Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 3 Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 2 shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 2 dhamiltony2k5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 2 "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 2 "Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. 
Who'd've Thunk It?" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 yifuxero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 sgrayatlarge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 lurkernomore20002000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 enlightened_dawn11 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 Randy Meltzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 JoAnn Lang Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 Janet Luise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 1 Dick Mays <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Posters: 28
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ironically, TM is recommended for PTSD victims. It
> would be hard to make a case that the technique
> itself, even if used too much, is the cause of the
> problem, though, it conceivably could contribute to
> behavioral issues that exacerbate teh problem if
> you're "over medicating" yourself.

John's saying it's the result of prolonged "trauma at
the hands of a toxic group."

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Similarly, I have a rather large sample of cult
> veterans who have presented with a set of symptoms
> -- apparently more frequently than the population
> at large. I think it's highly likely that the
> symptoms are brought about by a cultic relationship
> between the individual and the group.
> 
> That isn't proof to some.

It shouldn't be "proof" to *anybody*.

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  
wrote:

> > Exactly my point. "How do you know if it's the
> > chicken or the egg?"

Do you explore the possibility that it's your
clients' dysfunctional relationship skills that
led them to join the group in the first place,
and then led to the supposedly traumatic "cultic
relationship" they formed with the group? Is it
conceivable that this is why there would be (if
there is) a higher percentage of PTSD sufferers
among cult veterans than among the general
population?

> I don't. It doesn't matter as much to me as you might imagine.
> 
> I work with the client's definition of the problem.
> I don't try to convince anyone that they have a 
> cult-related problem. I don't try to convince them
> that they don't. 

And yet you're advertising these as "Cult Recovery
Support Groups." And on your Web site you say they're
designed to explore "any challenge CAUSED BY by your
time in your cult" (emphasis added); and "The groups
are open to anyone who is recovering from abuse by
any toxic group."

So you're certainly *encouraging* your clients to
think of their "challenges" as having been caused
by their time in the cult. And you style yourself
as well suited to help your clients with these
challenges because you yourself have been in "cult
recovery" for 14 years.

Do you expect that most of your clients' challenges
will be resolved after this 10-session group, or 
will they then need further, perhaps private,
counseling?

I think if I were a candidate for cult-recovery
therapy, I might be a little discouraged to learn
that the person offering the therapy was still
undergoing recovery after 14 years...

[FairfieldLife] John Hagelin was James Otis (advocate relating to Revolutionary War)

[pranamoocher]

Or so says the author of The Return of The Revolutionaries:

http://johnadams.net/purchase-book.html

In his book, Dr. Semkiw states who the individuals were in their prior
life, one of whom is Dr. H.
Pretty out there!
This guy believes he was John Adams.

He seems to believe "similarities" between the 2 individuals in question
can lead him to hypothecate their relationship in reincarnation.
Perhaps a lot of time on his hands but fun to at least take a gander at.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Knapp, LMSW"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well, you are making some assumptions that aren't really warranted >
-- and raising some 
> questions that are interesting.

What are the assumptions?

> Naturally, if a person has other traumatic events or other problems
> than cult-related we 
> deal with those too.
> 
> How can you PROVE that a person was traumatized by molestation -- 
> and not something 
> else? You can look at statistics that suggest a host of problems 
> presented by people who 
> were molested. You can find that the problems are presented more 
> frequently by 
> molestation survivors than the general population.

Perhaps there are case studies you can cite showing statically that
molested patients have a greater aggregate of presenting problems. But
until there are similar studies for "cult patients" you can't equate
it with the studies for molestation, nor is it prudent to make such a
comparison. If you have case studies for your work with cult
"veterans" (implying erroneously IMO they have trauma similar to
veterans of war), I'd like to see them.
 
> To some that isn't proof. 
> 
> Similarly, I have a rather large sample of cult veterans who have 
> presented with a set of 
> symptoms -- apparently more frequently than the population at 
> large. I think it's highly 
> likely that the symptoms are brought about by a cultic relationship
> between the individual 
> and the group. 

What do you have to support your conclusion? Unless you can produce a
control group of patients who have no attending psychological
disorders other than "trauma by guru" you can't formulate an empirical
study to prove your patients have more problems than the average bear.
There are plenty of trauma studies for veterans of real war and real
molestation but not so for "cult trauma" Even if your population of
cult trauma patients is large enough for a study, and you don't have
the time or funding to have a study, you got bupkis.
 
> That isn't proof to some.

You got that right.

> What I do know is that most people who work with me have happier 
> lives by the time we're 
> done with our time together. That's more important to me than the
cause of their pain.
> 
> And, I'm not by temperament a researcher. I enjoy direct care. I 
> leave proof of causation to 
> researchers.

I'm glad you have success with your patients. If you have been in the
business for many years, have you done any longitudinal studies? Other
questions: 
What is the average length of treatment?
What benchmarks do you have to determine that treatment is complete?
What do you charge and do you take insurance? 
Do you make referrals to other professionals?
 
> Some therapists have specializations. That doesn't mean it sums up >
all their work or 
> precludes work on other issues.
> 
> This would be like saying someone who specializes in rape trauma has
no business 
> treating depression. 
> 
> A therapist, or person, can be many things.
> 
> BTW, about a third of my practice has nothing to do with cults. 
> LIke many with a specialty, 

Only a third? Wow! That's some market niche for the cult folks.

Here's another question. Some of the folks attracted to self
improvement techniques are trying to fix a damaged part of themselves
and they transfer all their hopes into a single focus that becomes
rigidly all encompassing. How do you know whether or not you are
treating this type of individual and their presenting problem has
nothing to do with what you believe to be caused by a cult? 

> I find it refreshing to work with a variety of clients and 
> challenges.
> 
> To be honest, in my work -- which is greatly influence by cognitive
> therapy -- the cause 
> of pain or dysfunction is less important than finding relief in the
> here and now.


Do you use Ellis's Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy? I'm vaguely
familiar with it. Years ago I got a masters in counseling and nearly
completed a clinical membership for Transactional Analysis and Gestalt
Therapy. After working for a couple of years in an out patient
treatment clinic for substance abusers, I had my emotional fill of
listening to horrific stories. I recommended that my patients to go to
an introductory TM lecture, said good bye and packed myself off to
TTC. I am so glad I bailed and never looked back.

> Thanks for raising the questions. If they occurred to you it's 
> likely they occurred to others. 
> I appreciate you taking the time to express concerns.

I'm surprised no one has asked some of these questions before. Keep up
the good work. My only objection is the possibility that your patients
may be substituting perceived cult trauma for the cult of victim-hood,
especially when you use a loaded word like "veteran" as in a veteran
of war trauma. The are no purple hearts for TM-exers and from my side,
no bleeding hearts either.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An interesting meeting in 1959

[curtisdeltablues]

> She used to hand-crush grapes for MMY if its the same woman.>

I always assumed that this is what the attractive young woman who came
all the way from India to take care of Maharishi, cooking and cleaning
for him, was really doing, attending to his grapes.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Meltzer"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 
wrote:
> > > >
> > > I recognize Charlie and Maharishi. I'm guessing the woman on the
left
> > > is Charlie's wife. Who is the Indian woman?
> > >
> > Everyone called her Mataji.  She is described in the Olsen Book,
Hermit 
> > in the House.
> > I met her just last month in India.  She now is in her 80's, lives in 
> > Rishikesh and it turns out she was the first woman initiated by Guru 
> > Dev.
> >
> 
> She used to hand-crush grapes for MMY if its the same woman.
> 
> He apparently was getting tired of that because when she ran out of
grapes
> one day, he praised her up and down for thinking he might like
variety when
> she offered him orange juice instead.
> 
> 
> awson
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: An interesting meeting in 1959

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > She used to hand-crush grapes for MMY if its the same woman.>
> 
> I always assumed that this is what the attractive young woman who came
> all the way from India to take care of Maharishi, cooking and cleaning
> for him, was really doing, attending to his grapes.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Meltzer"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > I recognize Charlie and Maharishi. I'm guessing the woman on the
> left
> > > > is Charlie's wife. Who is the Indian woman?
> > > >
> > > Everyone called her Mataji.  She is described in the Olsen Book,
> Hermit 
> > > in the House.
> > > I met her just last month in India.  She now is in her 80's,
lives in 
> > > Rishikesh and it turns out she was the first woman initiated by
Guru 
> > > Dev.
> > >
> > 
> > She used to hand-crush grapes for MMY if its the same woman.
> > 
> > He apparently was getting tired of that because when she ran out of
> grapes
> > one day, he praised her up and down for thinking he might like
> variety when
> > she offered him orange juice instead.
> > 

That's a cool story. I love personal Maharishi stories from devotees,
they're always charming and uplifting to my heart. I could tell a few
myself. Tell us about your trip to India.

[FairfieldLife] Re: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM

[dhamiltony2k5]

Om, how would David O-J just answer a cult test about TM and the TM-
orgs like:

http://www.geocities.com/LeavingNityanandaInstitute/cult_test.htm





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> -Original Message-
> From: David Orme-Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:29 PM
> To: David Orme-Johnson
> Subject: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
> 
>  
> 
> The links below will take you to a new page and subsections on
> www.TruthAboutTM.com  , which presents
> evidence that the Transcendental Meditation program in not cult. 
You can
> see some of the post below.
> 
>  
> 
> All the best,
> 
> David
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Individual Effects
> 
> Issue: Is the Transcendental Meditation Program a Cult?
> 
 > 
> 
> Summary: 
> 
> The Transcendental Meditation program cannot be called a cult 
because it
> develops independent, intelligent, creating thinking and its 
founder,
> Maharishi, has in many ways encouraged personal independence,
> integration with society, and good citizenship.
> 
> Contents: 
> 
> Table Comparing the Transcendental Meditation Program and Cults
> 
 #tablecult> 
> 
> How the TM technique Differs from Hypnosis
> 
 #hypnosis>  
> 
> Maharishi is the Opposite of a Cult Leader
> 
 #Maharishi> 
> 
> Swami Muktananda on Maharishi
> 
 #muktananda>  
> 
> References
> 
 #references>  
> 
> The Evidence:
> 
> The word "cult" has many meanings, but in recent decades it has 
often
> been used with a negative connotation to point out a group that 
others
> would like to see removed from society. This use of the term is
> expressed by the prominent religious scholar J. Gordon Melton:
> 
> "My working definition of a cult is a group that you don't like, 
and I
> say that somewhat facetiously, but at the same time, in fact, that 
is my
> working definition of a cult. It is a group that somebody doesn't 
like.
> It is a derogatory term, and I have never seen it redeemed from the
> derogatory connotations that it picked up in the sociological 
literature
> in the 1930s." (1).
> 
> 
> Some psychologists and psychoanalysts have used their personal
> definition of mind control as "expert testimony" in legal 
proceedings
> against New Age groups on the behalf of various special interest 
groups
> who want to see them censured by society. However, this endeavor 
has not
> gained the support of the scientific community.
> 
> 
> "A report on brainwashing and mind control presented by an American
> Psychological Association
>   
(APA)
> task force known as the APA Taskforce on Deceptive and Indirect
> Techniques of Persuasion and Control (DIMPAC
>  ), chaired by Singer, was 
rejected
> in 1987 by the APA's Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility for
> Psychology (BSERP) as lacking "the scientific rigor and evenhanded
> critical approach necessary for APA imprimatur," and cautioned the 
task
> force members to "not distribute or publicize the report without
> indicating that the report was unacceptable to the Board." 
> 
> 
> The table below list factors related to cults along with evidence
> showing that the Transcendental Meditation program is the opposite 
of
> cults on every point.
> 
> Table Comparing the Transcendental Meditation Program and Cults.
> 
> Factors Related to Cults
> 
> Transcendental Meditation Program
> 
> Mind Control. Cults may use mind control techniques, such as peer
> pressure, to gain control over the behavior or their members (2, 3).
> 
>  
> 
> No Mind Control. The Transcendental Meditation program
>   does not use any the mind control techniques. 
It
> is a simple, natural, effortless process that one does by oneself, 
which
> allows the mind to settle to its own quite level. (4). No one else 
is
> involved.
> 
> Stress, Fear, and Weaknesses. Cults prey on the individual's 
stresses,
> fears, and weaknesses, and may use various techniques to amplify 
these
> factors to make the person more susceptible to manipulation (2).
> 
> Deep Rest to Normalize Stress and Fear, and Improve Health. The TM
> technique protects the individual from cults by strengthening the 
mind
> and body. It does this by providing a state of deep rest and reduced
> stress (5-8)-one that is different from sleep (5-8) and deeper rest 
than
> that provided

[FairfieldLife] Ever wonder how often you get busy?

[bob_brigante]

http://www.bedposted.com/

[FairfieldLife] Re: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM

[raunchydog]

What's the big burr in everyone's butt on this forum about TM? Debunk,
debunk, debunk. For what? So all you X TM ers out there bothering to
pop up your wee heads to pooh pooh TM, I say cut the elitist crap. You
are s superior in your arguments, s dismissive of Maharishi,
s full of yourselves, s RIGHT and IMPORTANT that you could
probably make an argument for walking into a church and shitting on
the altar and tell the congregation the are WRONG to object. 

Give it a rest guys. OJ made his case. Buy it or not. Trying to prove
conclusively that TM sucks or is nothing more that a cult, is born of
your personal dissatisfaction with TM, and only convinces an audience
of one...yourself. A zealot trades one belief for another then bashes
his former belief. He exerts amazing emotional, and intellectual
energy convincing himself with a renewed fire-in-the-belly-belief,
characteristic of zealotry, that he did the RIGHT thing embracing his
new guru and is compelled to reject his former practice and everyone
associated with it as WRONG. This is a very old story and tiring
story. Like it or not, there's my line in the sand. 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> What's the big burr in everyone's butt on this
> forum about TM?


Heh. You arrived on the scene when we were all
preoccupied with the presidential campaigns, and
TM/TMO/MMY/TMer-bashing took a back seat. Now
that the election's over, FFL is returning to its
normal programming.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM

[Vaj]

On Dec 6, 2008, at 9:11 PM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote:


Om, how would David O-J just answer a cult test about TM and the TM-
orgs like:

http://www.geocities.com/LeavingNityanandaInstitute/cult_test.htm



http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000466.html

Chapters 9 to 14 give a detailed description of the early years in  
which Maharishi established himself in England.


The author passed through a variety of spiritual movements and spent  
about 8 to 10 years meditating with Maharishi and also served in some  
capacity as his administrator.


Her period of involvement was from 1960 to about 1968-70.

Fascinating and valuable descriptions of how Maharishi got his start  
in England.


The author provides convincing evidence that his Transcendental  
Meditation (TM) may have produced dissociative reactions and  
passivity, from the very beginning.


Collin-Smith also offers a fairly convincing case that the guru was an  
imposter, basically a monastic washout who failed to get a promotion  
in India, who then sought to re-invent himself as a 'Realized Master'  
in the West. And then marketing that persona to less discerning and  
more gullible audiences.


It seems significant that Maharishi did not minister to the more  
knowledgeable émigré Indian community in London, but instead  
concentrated on Westerners, that probably could not tell a bogus yogi  
from a real one.


Collin-Smith appears to demonstrate that from the outset Maharishi was  
greedy for money and that he seemingly ruthlessly used and discard  
followers. The guru also apparently showed no concern when people  
began breaking down as a result of practicing TM.


The author says that though Maharishi might have some special gift, he  
abused it. And of course, how the guru struck gold when he was able to  
latch onto the Beatles."


Collin-Smith claims to have suffered personal injury as a result of  
her years of TM practice and reports that many artists she knew also  
had their careers derailed because of this form of meditation.


She also discusses how TM-related passivity and depression may have  
disabled people's critical faculties."


The author writes, "The stream of creative energy, once so vigorous  
and prolific in me, had been dammed, diverted or even destroyed  
altogether. I therefore had no source of happiness and satisfaction.  
Judging by the conversations I had with various artists, writers,  
musicians and a ballet dancer, this experience of the meditation  
effects was shared with them. 'The ballet used to be my life. Now it's  
just the way I earn my living.' 'I don't seem to want to paint any  
more. I'd rather just sit in the sun.' 'I can't get on with writing my  
book. I don't seem to feel much interest in anything but TM,' were  
some of the comments I heard."


This book, now made easily accessible through the Internet, provides  
thought-provoking information for anyone interested in the early  
history of Maharishi and/or the origins of the TM.


---



Also, it looks like Mahesh's old secretary Conny Larrson, has new book  
out on him called "Flower Power: The Beatles, Maharishi and I". I  
wonder if any one could contact him for a excerpt?

[FairfieldLife] Re: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  
> wrote:
> >
> > What's the big burr in everyone's butt on this
> > forum about TM?
> 
> 
> Heh. You arrived on the scene when we were all
> preoccupied with the presidential campaigns, and
> TM/TMO/MMY/TMer-bashing took a back seat. Now
> that the election's over, FFL is returning to its
> normal programming.

Who will ever manage the children? They are running with scissors and
they might poke out an eye. Stop. I say STOP! 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Going out with a song...

[lurkernomore20002000]

Dawn, especially,  brings a degree of subtlety to the whole issue I 
don't believe we've seen before.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > This is s much better than the standard Judy
> > Barry fare.  Dawn, you bring the dialog to an 
> > much more elevated and enjoyable level.  I enjoy 
> > Raunchy too, but you get to the heart of the 
> > matter without a lot of extra noise. Good stuff.
> 
> Agree totally. It's such a pleasure to be able 
> to just sit back and watch a master do the heavy
> lifting, and without any apparent effort!
> 
> Interesting, though, how both she and raunchy nail
> Barry and Vaj with exactly the same points I've 
> been making about them for years. So it seems I'm
> not the only one to consider them phonies.
>

[FairfieldLife] Happiness has a ripple affect..

[Robert]

 
IT’S CONTAGIOUS: U.S. actress Mia Farrow, a UNICEF goodwill ambassador, smiles 
as she holds a Haitian baby during her visit to a shelter in the town of 
Gonaives earlier this year. A new study shows that happiness has a ripple 
affect.


  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Going out with a song...

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > This is, by my count, my last post of the week.
> > So, in an attempt to up the culture level of
> > FFL, I present for your enjoyment a rare treat.
> 
> oh, now -this- is your final post of the week? is your ego really that 
> fragile, and your need to get back at me for the assessment i wrote of 
> your crippled personality such that, "oh wait a minit- i just 
> discovered -this- is my last post...". 
> 
> and for this, a juvenile song about sperm? you oughta check out jed 
> mckenna's book spiritual warfare, where he talks about most 60 year 
> olds being 10 year olds in 60 year old bodies. 
> 
> think about it B its deep.
 
Check out the German composer Wagner's famous opera "Ride of the
Valkyries" here:
http://tinyurl.com/5t5367 
And "Apocalypse Now..Ride Of The Valkyries" here:
http://tinyurl.com/3zwoul
Then compare it to "What's Opera, Doc?" 
http://tinyurl.com/3fj6c2

Do you imagine Barry to be more like Elmer Fudd or Bugs Bunny? 

Tom Cruise's new movie is "Valkyrie" http://tinyurl.com/6lupzq

I found stories about the Valkyries fascinating.

Loosely from Wikipedia:
The word "valkyrie" comes from the Old Norse valkyrja from the words
valr "the battle-slain" and kyrja "chooser" it therefore literally
means "chooser of the slain" The three "norns" or Valkyries, Wyrd, the
past, Verðandi, the present and Skuld. All three represent destiny as
it is twined with the flow of time. They choose who will live or die
in battle and bring the fallen heroes to Orin in Valhalla. Wagner
based his opera on these ancient stories and Gilbert and Sullivan
borrowed from Wagner. Here's a poem about the "take no prisoners"
Valkyries:

See! warp is stretched
For warriors' fall,
Lo! weft in loom
'Tis wet with blood;
Now fight foreboding,
'Neath friends' swift fingers,
Our grey woof waxeth
With war's alarms,
Our warp bloodred,
Our weft corseblue.

This woof is y-woven
With entrails of men,
This warp is hardweighted
With heads of the slain,
Spears blood-besprinkled
For spindles we use,
Our loom ironbound,
And arrows our reels;
With swords for our shuttles
This war-woof we work;

So weave we, weird sisters,
Our warwinning woof.
Now Warwinner walketh
To weave in her turn,
Now Swordswinger steppeth,
Now Swiftstroke, now Storm;
When they speed the shuttle
How spearheads shall flash!
Shields crash, and helmgnawer
On harness bite hard! 

Wind we, wind swiftly
Our warwinning woof
Woof erst for king youthful
Foredoomed as his own,
Forth now we will ride,
Then through the ranks rushing
Be busy where friends
Blows blithe give and take.

Wind we, wind swiftly
Our warwinning woof,
After that let us steadfastly
Stand by the brave king;
Then men shall mark mournful
Their shields red with gore,
How Swordstroke and Spearthrust
Stood stout by the prince.

Wind we, wind swiftly
Our warwinning woof.
When sword-bearing rovers
To banners rush on,
Mind, maidens, we spare not
One life in the fray!
We corse-choosing sisters
Have charge of the slain. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Going out with a song...

[enlightened_dawn11]

a beautiful crimson song of light. Thanks.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11
>  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  
wrote:
> > >
> > > This is, by my count, my last post of the week.
> > > So, in an attempt to up the culture level of
> > > FFL, I present for your enjoyment a rare treat.
> > 
> > oh, now -this- is your final post of the week? is your ego 
really that 
> > fragile, and your need to get back at me for the assessment i 
wrote of 
> > your crippled personality such that, "oh wait a minit- i just 
> > discovered -this- is my last post...". 
> > 
> > and for this, a juvenile song about sperm? you oughta check out 
jed 
> > mckenna's book spiritual warfare, where he talks about most 60 
year 
> > olds being 10 year olds in 60 year old bodies. 
> > 
> > think about it B its deep.
>  
> Check out the German composer Wagner's famous opera "Ride of the
> Valkyries" here:
> http://tinyurl.com/5t5367 
> And "Apocalypse Now..Ride Of The Valkyries" here:
> http://tinyurl.com/3zwoul
> Then compare it to "What's Opera, Doc?" 
> http://tinyurl.com/3fj6c2
> 
> Do you imagine Barry to be more like Elmer Fudd or Bugs Bunny? 
> 
> Tom Cruise's new movie is "Valkyrie" http://tinyurl.com/6lupzq
> 
> I found stories about the Valkyries fascinating.
> 
> Loosely from Wikipedia:
> The word "valkyrie" comes from the Old Norse valkyrja from the 
words
> valr "the battle-slain" and kyrja "chooser" it therefore literally
> means "chooser of the slain" The three "norns" or Valkyries, Wyrd, 
the
> past, Verðandi, the present and Skuld. All three represent destiny 
as
> it is twined with the flow of time. They choose who will live or 
die
> in battle and bring the fallen heroes to Orin in Valhalla. Wagner
> based his opera on these ancient stories and Gilbert and Sullivan
> borrowed from Wagner. Here's a poem about the "take no prisoners"
> Valkyries:
> 
> See! warp is stretched
> For warriors' fall,
> Lo! weft in loom
> 'Tis wet with blood;
> Now fight foreboding,
> 'Neath friends' swift fingers,
> Our grey woof waxeth
> With war's alarms,
> Our warp bloodred,
> Our weft corseblue.
> 
> This woof is y-woven
> With entrails of men,
> This warp is hardweighted
> With heads of the slain,
> Spears blood-besprinkled
> For spindles we use,
> Our loom ironbound,
> And arrows our reels;
> With swords for our shuttles
> This war-woof we work;
> 
> So weave we, weird sisters,
> Our warwinning woof.
> Now Warwinner walketh
> To weave in her turn,
> Now Swordswinger steppeth,
> Now Swiftstroke, now Storm;
> When they speed the shuttle
> How spearheads shall flash!
> Shields crash, and helmgnawer
> On harness bite hard! 
> 
> Wind we, wind swiftly
> Our warwinning woof
> Woof erst for king youthful
> Foredoomed as his own,
> Forth now we will ride,
> Then through the ranks rushing
> Be busy where friends
> Blows blithe give and take.
>   
> Wind we, wind swiftly
> Our warwinning woof,
> After that let us steadfastly
> Stand by the brave king;
> Then men shall mark mournful
> Their shields red with gore,
> How Swordstroke and Spearthrust
> Stood stout by the prince.
> 
> Wind we, wind swiftly
> Our warwinning woof.
> When sword-bearing rovers
> To banners rush on,
> Mind, maidens, we spare not
> One life in the fray!
> We corse-choosing sisters
> Have charge of the slain.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: An interesting meeting in 1959

[enlightened_dawn11]

better her than you.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > She used to hand-crush grapes for MMY if its the same woman.>
> 
> I always assumed that this is what the attractive young woman who 
came
> all the way from India to take care of Maharishi, cooking and 
cleaning
> for him, was really doing, attending to his grapes.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Meltzer"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" 
 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 

> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > I recognize Charlie and Maharishi. I'm guessing the woman on 
the
> left
> > > > is Charlie's wife. Who is the Indian woman?
> > > >
> > > Everyone called her Mataji.  She is described in the Olsen 
Book,
> Hermit 
> > > in the House.
> > > I met her just last month in India.  She now is in her 80's, 
lives in 
> > > Rishikesh and it turns out she was the first woman initiated 
by Guru 
> > > Dev.
> > >
> > 
> > She used to hand-crush grapes for MMY if its the same woman.
> > 
> > He apparently was getting tired of that because when she ran out 
of
> grapes
> > one day, he praised her up and down for thinking he might like
> variety when
> > she offered him orange juice instead.
> > 
> > 
> > awson
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: New section on TM and Cults posted on Truth About TM

[enlightened_dawn11]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 6, 2008, at 9:11 PM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote:
> 
> > Om, how would David O-J just answer a cult test about TM and the 
TM-
> > orgs like:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/LeavingNityanandaInstitute/cult_test.htm
> 
> 
> http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000466.html
> 
> Chapters 9 to 14 give a detailed description of the early years 
in  
> which Maharishi established himself in England.
> 
> The author passed through a variety of spiritual movements and 
spent  
> about 8 to 10 years meditating with Maharishi and also served in 
some  
> capacity as his administrator.
> 
> Her period of involvement was from 1960 to about 1968-70.
> 
> Fascinating and valuable descriptions of how Maharishi got his 
start  
> in England.
> 
> The author provides convincing evidence that his Transcendental  
> Meditation (TM) may have produced dissociative reactions and  
> passivity, from the very beginning.
> 
-snip-
how can the author provide "convincing evidence that his 
Transcendental Meditation (TM) -may- have produced dissociative 
reactions and passivity..."? 

if the evidence is in fact convincing, it would show without doubt 
that TM produced these results, not that TM -may- have produced 
these results.

I am doubtful of this one's credentials, only having practiced TM 8-
10 years. that's what- 15% of one's adult life? i have heard that to 
master -anything- takes 20 years, so they are only halfway there. 

TM is a very powerful technique, and it seems entirely reasonable 
that the author of this hit piece on the Maharishi would have 
confronted a rough patch or three during the relatively brief time 
that they practiced TM. 

Then to stop, concluding that they had milked the capabilities of 
the technique and the Maharishi dry, and therefore exhausted their 
capacity to transcend, is a premature judgment, an immature 
conclusion, which is why it appeals to you vaj.

it is a cheap shot, an easy out, a cop out. better to know what you 
are talking about before tackling the subject of transcendence.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Request for names of movies that have made you "Laugh-Out-Loud"

[gullible fool]

 
Airplane
Better Off Dead (the one with John Cusack)
 
"Love will swallow you, eat you up completely, until there is no `you,' only 
love." 
 
- Amma  

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Request for names of movies that have made you 
"Laugh-Out-Loud"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:27 PM








>From a friend. Post your recommendations and I’ll forward them to her and post 
>her final collection.
 
Hi All
It is time to update the list of “Laugh-Out-Loud” movies.
I asking for the names of movies that have made you laugh out loud
(not just crack a grin)
Ask your friends and family
I will send out the upgraded list before Christmas.
Be merry and bright
Thanks
Liz 
  


  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Online Recovery Support Groups Starting in January

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> 
> > Ironically, TM is recommended for PTSD victims. It
> > would be hard to make a case that the technique
> > itself, even if used too much, is the cause of the
> > problem, though, it conceivably could contribute to
> > behavioral issues that exacerbate teh problem if
> > you're "over medicating" yourself.
> 
> John's saying it's the result of prolonged "trauma at
> the hands of a toxic group."
>

Ah, that could be the case for some people. But the question arises:
is it more than for other groups? US military, for example...

Roman Catholic Church... Greenpeace...

Lots of organizations can chew you up and spit you out.

Lawson